Post by: scientist@work on 03/03/2021 18:26:35
it's an old topic and a am really not a flatearther.
But it's indeed a good question how the water stays on the round earth.
It should just fload down from the planet, right?
Post by: Bored chemist on 03/03/2021 19:42:37
Post by: Kryptid on 03/03/2021 20:33:52
Post by: Janus on 04/03/2021 00:55:32
Hey guys,Because "down" is defined by gravity and the Earth's gravity acts toward the center of the Earth. Water tends to, if it can, flow "down hill", and "downhill" means closer to the Earth's center. (Of course, it can't flow all the way to the center because the bulk of the Earth gets in the way.)
it's an old topic and a am really not a flatearther.
But it's indeed a good question how the water stays on the round earth.
It should just fload down from the planet, right?
Post by: alancalverd on 04/03/2021 12:23:55
It should just fload down from the planet, right?Down to where?
Post by: charles1948 on 04/03/2021 19:26:05
You have posted a lot of questions that you could get a quicker answer using Google.
Are you trying to sabotage the site BC? Of course everyone could get quicker answers using Google.
But wouldn't that render the Naked Scientists web-site completely redundant. Except for the mutual pleasure of social scientific intercourse. Isn't that what we all want on here, really.
Post by: Bored chemist on 04/03/2021 19:29:38
Are you trying to sabotage the site BC?No, I'm trying to avoid the situation where no interesting questions can be found because they are buried under posts asking what is 2 times 3.
Post by: charles1948 on 04/03/2021 19:44:55
Are you trying to sabotage the site BC?No, I'm trying to avoid the situation where no interesting questions can be found because they are buried under posts asking what is 2 times 3.
Well, that's bound to happen when a scientific website is opened up to the ignorant masses.
The masses just bury it under an avalanche of stupid questions. Isn't what's needed, a web-site conducted by serious scholarly persons, such as yourself.
Post by: Bored chemist on 04/03/2021 20:11:39
Well, that's bound to happen when a scientific website is opened up to the ignorant masses.Not really.
Apart from anything else, we are all ignorant.
Post by: Zer0 on 04/03/2021 20:55:56
Hi there!
🙋
First off, No Question is Silly or Stoopid!
✌️
Moving on...
As JANUS has Very Nicely & with utmost Simplicity explained, i do Not think anything more needs to be said.
👍
BUT...if You wish, You could personally consider FlatEarthers as beings who are possibly self hallucinating or self delusionally trying their Best to exist in the Fourth Dimension.
⚛️
Elaboration - Ever considered if the Universe is Flat or Round?
🤔
It's FLAT with Only a 0.4% margin of error.
👍
Consider a sheet of paper 1mm thick at one end & gradually tapering , while the other end's thickness is 0.95mm.
Now Consider a Blue ink Dot on that sheet of paper...& Ask Yourself...Is that Pale Blue Dot Round or Flat?
🤔
P.S. - Nopes!
I am Not a FlatEarther, & i do Not support such delusionally hallucinating theories...But do remember, even a Dead Clock is Right once a day.
⏰
Post by: gem on 21/03/2021 23:20:15
Quote
I am Not a FlatEarther, & i do Not support such delusionally hallucinating theories...But do remember, even a Dead Clock is Right once a day.
⏰
Twice, I believe,
In regards to the original post, consider when was the last time you replaced the battery's for your spirit level.
Post by: charles1948 on 21/03/2021 23:50:40
Hi allQuoteI am Not a FlatEarther, & i do Not support such delusionally hallucinating theories...But do remember, even a Dead Clock is Right once a day.
⏰
Twice, I believe,
In regards to the original post, consider when was the last time you replaced the battery's for your spirit level.
As regards spirit-levels, in the past they were simple devices. Just a glass tube filled with greenish liquid, and on the surface of the liquid, an air-bubble.
This bubble could be observed against black-lines etched, or painted, on the glass tube. Thus enabling levelness to be established simply, and optically. By just looking at it. Without any electrical input from batteries.
Has this changed in modern times - are "spirit-levels" now electronic devices, which have to be fitted with batteries?
Is that progress?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 22/03/2021 08:29:12
Hey guys,It's because the curvature of space time makes the edges impassable. You can sail into the edges for days and days yet the gods have set a spell there that mean non can leave middle earth and reach arda, water included.
it's an old topic and a am really not a flatearther.
But it's indeed a good question how the water stays on the round earth.
It should just fload down from the planet, right?
Post by: syhprum on 22/03/2021 09:25:52
If the Earth was spherical they would take an elliptical path.
Post by: Zer0 on 22/03/2021 10:46:25
Hello!
🙂
I was referring to an Analog Clock...which seemingly does Not have an A.M./P.M. marker...hence Your " Twice a Day " remark fits the Logic.
Hence You Win!
😊
YaaY!
(& here is ur deliciously sugary prize)
🍭
Njoy & do Not share with others, plz follow Covid19 safety norms ok.
👍
P.S. - @syhprum
At first i could Not believe my eyez...U made dat statement?
😵
But after a second & third read...my peanut sized brain buffered d info in..." Sarcasm "
🤭
U almost Got me there maan!
Ha Hah!
Post by: Just thinking on 26/07/2021 10:26:33
Post by: alancalverd on 26/07/2021 11:36:06
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/07/2021 11:47:02
There is indeed a defined orientation.And it is this one.
You seem to have muddled the ideas of an axis and an orientation
map south up.JPG (110.87 kB . 944x636 - viewed 9303 times)
Post by: Just thinking on 26/07/2021 12:02:32
There is indeed a defined orientation. Because the sphere spins, it has a unique axis that we label "north-south". Conveniently, one end points towards a fairly well fixed star, and we label that end "north". Nothing to do with the magnetic pole, which is currently at around 86.400°N 156.786°E. Close enough for most navigational purposes in the UK but you need to add the local charted variation for a long flight.The well defined orientation is a man made concept that has been put into action as the north could have been called south and it will still work the same names are used so we know what and where is. If an alien ship is nearing earth do you think they will orientate the earth as we do arriving to earth from deep space the earth has no up or down or top and bottom.
Post by: Halc on 26/07/2021 12:35:11
The well defined orientation is a man made conceptOrientation (which way to hold the paper map) is a man made convention. Which direction is north is not.
Quote
If an alien ship is nearing earth do you think they will orientate the earth as we do arriving to earth from deep space the earth has no up or down or top and bottom.Yes they will. They will label the six directions (NSEWUD) with their own words for them, and those six words will correspond precisely with ours, not some random directions.
Any planet very much has an up, which is away from the center, and down being towards the center.
Which way is north on some planets sometimes depends on a precise definition of your convention. Is it defined by the spin? (North is always the direction of the angular momentum (another human convention)), or does the sun always rise in the east (a convention that doesn't work for the sun)? They're opposite poles for some planets like Mercury.
There are websites that define the north pole of Venus on the side that violates both these definitions, which suggests a third definition somewhere such as the pole on the side of orbital north, which doesn't work very well with Uranus.
Post by: Just thinking on 26/07/2021 12:47:34
Yes they will. They will label the six directions (NSEWUD) with their own words for them, and those six words will correspond precisely with ours, not some random directions.I'm referring to the direction of the pole not the direction of the surface to the centre. North is not up north is not top south is not down south is not bottom.
Any planet very much has an up, which is away from the center, and down being towards the center.
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/07/2021 13:16:02
Yes they will. They will label the six directions (NSEWUD) with their own words for them, and those six words will correspond precisely with ours, not some random directionsProbably.
They may label points on our planet as latitude longitude and altitude.
They might start at some arbitrary point and draw a spiral going outward on a one inch pitch to the equator and then in again to the antipodal point from where they started.
They could them assign any point to a distance along that spiral and (if they needed better precision) how far off tot the right you had to travel from the line to get exactly to the point
Other options are presumably available.
Post by: alancalverd on 26/07/2021 14:41:34
You seem to have muddled the ideas of an axis and an orientationNot at all. I called the axis "north-south" and pointed out that the end oriented towards Polaris is called north. How you draw your map is entirely arbitrary. The Roman map of Great Britain is surprisingly accurate but drawn with north to the left. The map on my cockpit GPS can be oriented "north up" or "track up", but "up" is oriented to the lift vector of the airplane, not gravity.
Post by: Just thinking on 26/07/2021 14:53:29
Not at all. I called the axis "north-south" and pointed out that the end oriented towards Polaris is called north. How you draw your map is entirely arbitrary. The Roman map of Great Britain is surprisingly accurate but drawn with north to the left. The map on my cockpit GPS can be oriented "north up" or "track up", but "up" is oriented to the lift vector of the airplane, not gravity.The magnetic compass was put to use about 800 years ago the concept of north and south did not exist prior to that. It is just a man made navigation tool.
Post by: Janus on 26/07/2021 15:09:08
The concept of North and South predates the magnetic compass. All you had to do was go out at night and note that some stars would never rise and set, but traveled in a circle around a particular star that never changed position. That star became the marker for the direction "North".Not at all. I called the axis "north-south" and pointed out that the end oriented towards Polaris is called north. How you draw your map is entirely arbitrary. The Roman map of Great Britain is surprisingly accurate but drawn with north to the left. The map on my cockpit GPS can be oriented "north up" or "track up", but "up" is oriented to the lift vector of the airplane, not gravity.The magnetic compass was put to use about 800 years ago the concept of north and south did not exist prior to that. It is just a man made navigation tool.
Post by: Just thinking on 26/07/2021 15:23:58
The concept of North and South predates the magnetic compass. All you had to do was go out at night and note that some stars would never rise and set, but traveled in a circle around a particular star that never changed position. That star became the marker for the direction "North".Of course, that is called navigation but has nothing to do with this topic and the other cardinal points were added later. My point is that the earth dos not have a top and a bottom. And north doesn't mean top. Another example is most people think of east is to the right and west is to the left but we know that is not always the case.
Post by: Colin2B on 26/07/2021 16:03:33
Watt would we do if the earth flipped its magnetic poles will we call south north will we place south at the top of the map.Watt wouldn’t do anything, he’s been dead for too long.
North, south etc are just conventional labels for direction on a spherical earth. So, we would still say the N Pole is in the north. Of course the compasses would need changing as a magnetic north pole would now point towards our northern magnetic pole - well, wouldn’t need to change my Silva, I’ll just need to remember that red points south; I can probably manage that ;D
Post by: Just thinking on 26/07/2021 16:15:50
Watt wouldn’t do anything, he’s been dead for too long.Just scratch the red tip of and paint the other end. If it happens they can put Australia on top of the world for a change.
North, south etc are just conventional labels for direction on a spherical earth. So, we would still say the N Pole is in the north. Of course the compasses would need changing as a magnetic north pole would now point towards our northern magnetic pole - well, wouldn’t need to change my Silva, I’ll just need to remember that red points south; I can probably manage that
Post by: alancalverd on 26/07/2021 17:57:31
All you had to do was go out at night and note that some stars would never rise and set, but traveled in a circle around a particular star that never changed position.Unless you happened to live south of the equator, in which case you couldn't see Polaris.
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/07/2021 19:41:53
Otherwise just note the points of sun rise and sun set on the horizon; half way between is South (or North if you are on the other side of the world)
You can also find local noon by plotting out the path of the shadow of a stick.
Cloudy weather makes it more challenging.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_(medieval)
Post by: Janus on 26/07/2021 19:49:35
but there still is a point in the sky that the stars circle, The cross bar of the Southern cross points in its direction.All you had to do was go out at night and note that some stars would never rise and set, but traveled in a circle around a particular star that never changed position.Unless you happened to live south of the equator, in which case you couldn't see Polaris.
Post by: Halc on 26/07/2021 21:28:45
Unless you happened to live south of the equator, in which case you couldn't see Polaris.Back when early humans first started paying attention to the tracks of the stars, Polaris wasn't stationary in the northern sky. The Earth precesses rather quickly up against the scale of human history.
So in both hemispheres, it's pot luck if (at a random time in history) the point at the center of rotation happens to have an obvious object there.
Post by: evan_au on 28/07/2021 10:27:03
Quote from: charles1948
Of course everyone could get quicker answers using Google.Not entirely.
But wouldn't that render the Naked Scientists web-site completely redundant.
Current search engines and digital assistants are not good at maintaining a thread of question and answer.
Any subsequent question ends up on a different server, so its like you are starting a new conversation every time.
Sometimes there is an exact scientific word that describes the situation exactly (in Wikipedia, for example), but it's not easy to guess the right scientific word.
Post by: Just thinking on 28/07/2021 13:04:15
As regards spirit-levels, in the past they were simple devices. Just a glass tube filled with greenish liquid, and on the surface of the liquid, an air-bubble.I think you are right simple is the best way with one exception to getting a level over a large distance optics or electronics are beneficial.
This bubble could be observed against black-lines etched, or painted, on the glass tube. Thus enabling levelness to be established simply, and optically. By just looking at it. Without any electrical input from batteries.
Has this changed in modern times - are "spirit-levels" now electronic devices, which have to be fitted with batteries?
Is that progress?
Post by: gem on 28/07/2021 13:53:47
As regards spirit-levels, in the past they were simple devices. Just a glass tube filled with greenish liquid, and on the surface of the liquid, an air-bubble.I think you are right simple is the best way with one exception to getting a level over a large distance optics or electronics are beneficial.
This bubble could be observed against black-lines etched, or painted, on the glass tube. Thus enabling levelness to be established simply, and optically. By just looking at it. Without any electrical input from batteries.
Has this changed in modern times - are "spirit-levels" now electronic devices, which have to be fitted with batteries?
Is that progress?
Oh dear I think my comment fell on stoney ground.
So to be a little less abstract, I was referring to a traditional spirit level, if you find where the battery goes please share here as I’m sure each manufacturers different 🤣
Post by: Just thinking on 28/07/2021 15:11:56
Oh dear I think my comment fell on stoney ground.Yes indeed you are correct simple is the best for general levelling of a surface. The old spirit level is by far the best way. Sorry for missing your point.
So to be a little less abstract, I was referring to a traditional spirit level, if you find where the battery goes please share here as I’m sure each manufacturers different 🤣
Post by: gem on 28/07/2021 18:43:56
Mmmm not sure you’re quite there yet
(Just thinking)
Probably think in the context of the op and reply
# 2 from Kryptid
And accelerated reference frames as to what actual physics are involved in the working of a spirit level.
There is some crossover as to local level on a near spherical object in another discussion here
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=16412.new;topicseen#new
Post by: Petrochemicals on 28/07/2021 22:41:07
Post by: Just thinking on 30/07/2021 14:04:27
Hey guys,I had to come back to the start can you please explain just what you mean by{ flood down from the planet }. As in heading south or to the center?.
it's an old topic and a am really not a flatearther.
But it's indeed a good question how the water stays on the round earth.
It should just fload down from the planet, right?
Post by: Janus on 30/07/2021 16:14:33
The OP is positing the old idea that "down" is an absolute direction, rather than being defined by the direction gravity acts.Hey guys,I had to come back to the start can you please explain just what you mean by{ flood down from the planet }. As in heading south or to the center?.
it's an old topic and a am really not a flatearther.
But it's indeed a good question how the water stays on the round earth.
It should just fload down from the planet, right?
Post by: Just thinking on 30/07/2021 16:27:39
The OP is positing the old idea that "down" is an absolute direction, rather than being defined by the direction gravity acts.I'm in Australia and I'm pretty sure I'm not hanging upside down. The earth must be flat after all.
Post by: Colin2B on 30/07/2021 18:39:49
I'm in Australia and I'm pretty sure I'm not hanging upside down. The earth must be flat after all.Not sure I want to know how you are hanging :o but, yes, locally the earth is flat (very locally) ;)
Post by: Just thinking on 30/07/2021 18:48:19
but, yes, locally the earth is flat (very locally)Yes, my snooker table is local and flat.
Post by: alancalverd on 01/08/2021 00:56:06
Post by: Just thinking on 01/08/2021 01:25:34
Norfolk is flat. Nothing else matters. Ask any native.When a plane is at 38 thousand feet one can see for about 400 kilometers so if we had a telescope and watched the plane going into the distance we would see it meat the horizon when the plane was 400 kilometers out. A simple experiment for the flat people.
Post by: alancalverd on 01/08/2021 18:16:33
Post by: Just thinking on 01/08/2021 22:38:20
Yew won't want to go to 38000 feet in Norfolk, bor. Yew can see all that matters from the top of a church.If the church is 150 feet tall and you are on the top of it you can see for a distance of about 25 kilometers in all directions. So with a good pair of binoculars, we can do some whale watching.
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/08/2021 23:26:26
Post by: alancalverd on 02/08/2021 11:58:25
Post by: Just thinking on 02/08/2021 12:04:38