Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: katieHaylor on 12/07/2017 16:52:25

Title: Is there evidence for the concept of "hexagonal water"?
Post by: katieHaylor on 12/07/2017 16:52:25
Graham says:


I've been trying to find information on the concept of "hexagonal water". It seems like a hoax to me but people defend it quite adamantly. Is it a hoax? If not, can anyone explain how and why it works? Could water really have a memory when the bonds break and form so rapidly?


What do you think?

As a bit of background information, according to one website we found "hexagonal water, or structured water, is the most most stable structure of liquid water. It is a crystalline geometric structure formed by eight water molecules" and its hexagonal structure "amplifies water’s natural abilities to archive and transfer information".





Title: Re: Is there evidence for the concept of "hexagonal water"?
Post by: alancalverd on 12/07/2017 17:11:44
Liquid water forms all sorts of temporary polymers, and a hexamer is indeed detectable but it has no more memory than any other six molecules.
Title: Re: Is there evidence for the concept of "hexagonal water"?
Post by: jeffreyH on 12/07/2017 18:02:06
This was supposedly one of the "mechanisms" that made homeopathy work. If water really had a memory then lots of it has been through the sewers. Yeuk!
Title: Re: Is there evidence for the concept of "hexagonal water"?
Post by: chris on 12/07/2017 18:04:10
This was supposedly one of the "mechanisms" that made homeopathy work. If water really had a memory then lots of it has been through the sewers. Yeuk!

...and the whole world would be dying of a homeopathic overdose right now...
Title: Re: Is there evidence for the concept of "hexagonal water"?
Post by: puppypower on 13/07/2017 12:56:02
Water over the range of 254.2 --365.9 K, has two energy minima U, with respect to hydrogen bonding. As shown below, there is a dynamic equilibrium between two energy minimal states. The state on the left is more common in hot water while the state on the right is more common in cold. Because the two states represent energy minima, which are close in energy, both states exist in equilibrium at all temperatures with each more favored at hot or cold.

(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.lsbu.ac.uk%2Fwater%2Fimages%2Fwater_octamer.gif&hash=936157e8cb7ca086a9c1a714a722f1a1)

In the second diagram this hydrogen bonding binary is represented on an energy graph with state B slightly more stable than state A. The net affect is the structuring of the hydrogen bonding within water forms something similar to a binary switch, with two stable states; on-off, separated by a small activation energy hill.

(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.lsbu.ac.uk%2Fwater%2Fimages%2Fpotential_energy_barrier.gif&hash=96dffafc65bc7da3c5a2f4dcd6f9ce24)

The result in water is loosely similar to a binary switch in computer memory. Things dissolved in the water or the conditions of the water, can favor one switch setting or the other.

As an example, there is an affect called the Mpemba affect, where hot water can freeze before cold water. To freeze water we may need to form hexagonal ice. If we compare states A and B, B which is found in cold water has too many water and more bonding, while A which is found in cold water has fewer bonded water.

A quick chill of the looser hot water state A can allow the water to skip the B state and go right into hexagonal ice. If we start with the B state, this shape is more stable, resulting in supercooling of the water, since the bonds needs to rearrange to form hexagonal ice. The cold water gets colder faster but supercools instead of freeze. The hot water coo;s slower to 0C, but skips supercooling so it can freeze faster. The hot water memory is retained within the binary switch during the chilling toward freezing.

This binary switch is unique to water and gives water many anomalous properties. Life makes a lot of use of the binary in water, with surfaces able to maintain switch settings like finger prints. These finger prints contain free energy and can exert pressure.
Title: Re: Is there evidence for the concept of "hexagonal water"?
Post by: chris on 13/07/2017 21:23:56
This article about the science of snowflakes (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/features/science-snowflakes) is a good read and is relevant to this discussion.

And then there is this discussion about the science of snowflakes and water chemistry (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/interviews/first-day-christmas) from the Naked Scientists podcast featuring our own @alancalverd