[cpu68 (OP)]

Notes on chaos theory. E. Lorenz's butterfly, related to the issue of the butterfly effect, where the flapping of this insect's wings in Brazil can lead to a hurricane in Florida after a month, and the Lorenz attractor has a magical connection. The Lorenz attractor resembles a butterfly. The Lorenz attractor arises as a graph in three-dimensional phase space.



diagram. Lorenz Atrractor

Phase space is a space in which coordinates represent certain physical quantities, for example viscosity, temperature, size. We could probably talk about the magic of similarity (association by similarity) in the case of the butterfly and the Lorenz attractor. This is a confident proposal to solve the mystery of the relationship between these two objects, although the depth of the mystery of this relationship may still remain hidden. I will also add that the concept of mystery is a key concept for the entire cognitive process and seems to occupy a place above the rational mind, similarly, magical practices properly cleansed of all the burden of superstitions occupy a place above the rational mind. Mystery is everywhere.

I know from my own research experience that the most important concept for the entire theory of science is the process of scientific discovery. The physical model of the psychological process of discovery is the strike of lightning. Discovery is a mental flash, the manifestation of a higher intellectual process. Larger discoveries are usually a manifestation of a scientist's genius. Certain competences in the form of the knowledge accumulated by the scientist are required to be discovered.
A mystery can move from the level above reason to the area of discovery and the level of reason. What hides in darkness and mystery can sometimes come to light and discovery. This darkness can be illuminated by a flash of discovery. Thus, we can distinguish two most important cognitive orders, the order of mystery and the order of discovery.
 
(year 2023)

In addition to the so called deterministic chaos that would exhaust the domain of the chaos problem, I distinguish indeterministic chaos. As an example of the phenomenon of indeterministic chaos, we can give the television noise visible on television receivers from the second half of the 20th century when no program was broadcast. Of course, more examples of this type of chaos can be given.


Gregory Podgorniak, Poland

about the author, My name is Gregory Podgorniak (brn. 01.1977, Szczecinek, West Pomerania, Poland). I am working on field of natural as well as social sciences. During philosophical studies at Adam Mickiewicz University in Poznan (1996-1999) I was actively act in student scientific organisation, got a scientific scholarship, and one from my articles titled Circulus vitiosus and fourfold petitio principii in the system of Descartes was published in Humanistic Drafts of Publishing House of Humaniora Foundation in Poznan, no. 6, 1998. Unfortunately certain fate events made impossible to me continuing studies to master's and later doctor's degree. Thence I was forced to be content only with a title of bachelor.
Thanks to deep and penetrating researchings I was able to establish indisputably some number of my past incarnations reaching of ancient period, these data are certain, these incarnations are: Auguste Comte (1798-1857) French philosopher and sociologist, Edme Mariotte (1620-1684) French physicist and meteorologist, Bodhidharma (5th or 6th century) buddhist patriarch, Aenesidemus (1 st century BC) Greek sceptical philosopher, Arcesilaus (315-241 BC) Greek sceptical philosopher, Gorgias (485-380 BC) Greek sophist.

email contact: podgorniakgre@gmail.com

[Bored chemist]

magical connection

You might want to come back when you have a scientific connection.

We could probably talk about the magic of similarity (association by similarity) in the case of the butterfly and the Lorentz attractor.

Do you mean the fact that the picture looks a bit like a butterfly?

The reason for that was that the original- "when an rat farts in Argentina..." was rejected by the publisher, so it was swapped for a butterfly flapping its wings.

OK, I made that up, but the flatulent rodent is just as valid as an illustration of the point.

It's just  coincidence.

[cpu68 (OP)]

It's just  coincidence.

One might think that explaining this convergence as the result of pure chance may be insufficient. The convergence remains and it may be impossible to explain it using ordinary methods. You have to use extraordinary methods, my proposal is a magical explanation and an appeal to mystery.

[Bored chemist]

One might think that explaining this convergence as the result of pure chance may be insufficient.

Or one might not.
But unless you have evidence, the grown-ups with think it's a coincidence.

The convergence remains and it may be impossible to explain it using ordinary methods.

I explained it. It's a coincidence.

... a magical explanation ...

A magical explanation is a contradiction in terms.
If you can explain it, then it's not magic.

my proposal is

Yuur "proposal" can not  achieve anything, can it?

[Origin]

You have to use extraordinary methods, my proposal is a magical explanation and an appeal to mystery.

Proposing magic as an explanation for phenomena, besides being crazy, means that his thread has no place on any science site.  The thread should be locked or at least moved to a section like Just Chat.

[Kryptid]

One might think that explaining this convergence as the result of pure chance may be insufficient.

As Bored Chemist pointed out, the name "butterfly effect" is completely arbitrary and has nothing specifically to do with butterflies. As such, it could have been named after any animal (or non-animal, even). So the fact that the Lorentz attractor somewhat resembles a butterfly has no correlation to the butterfly effect. It is, in fact, a coincidence.

[Bored chemist]

Incidentally, the Lorenz attractor is a 3 D shape and it only looks "like a butterfly" from one direction.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/e/ea/A_Lorenz_system.ogv/A_Lorenz_system.ogv.360p.vp9.webm

[cpu68 (OP)]

So the fact that the Lorentz attractor somewhat resembles a butterfly has no correlation to the butterfly effect.

Lorenz used to say that "even the flap of a butterfly's wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas." So the butterfly effect clearly has something to do with butterflies.

Incidentally, the Lorenz attractor is a 3 D shape and it only looks "like a butterfly" from one direction.

Quote from the text Lorenz and the Butterfly Effect from the American Physical Society (APS) website: "It traced a distinctive double-spiral shape, aptly resembling a butterfly with its two wings."
https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200301/history.cfm

[Origin]

Lorentz used to say that "even the flap of a butterfly's wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas." So the butterfly effect clearly has something to do with butterflies.

LOL, pretty funny!

[trevorjohnson32]

If butterfly's could start hurricane's, there would be a lot more hurricanes as the butterfly's badly outnumber the swirly windy big sky circle's. If were talking one butterfly, what's the difference in that butterfly's flight then other's? that he causes a hurricane?

[Origin]

If butterfly's could start hurricane's, there would be a lot more hurricanes as the butterfly's badly outnumber the swirly windy big sky circle's. If were talking one butterfly, what's the difference in that butterfly's flight then other's? that he causes a hurricane?

Just in case you guys aren't joking, the butterfly has nothing to do with it.  The point is that for a chaotic process like the weather a very small disturbance can cause a big change.  That's it, no magic about a butterfly.

[Zer0]

@OP

Any Thoughts on the Domino Effect?

[Origin]

Any Thoughts on the Domino Effect?

I know dominos are not required for the domino effect...   

[Bored chemist]

So the fact that the Lorentz attractor somewhat resembles a butterfly has no correlation to the butterfly effect.

Lorentz used to say that "even the flap of a butterfly's wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas." So the butterfly effect clearly has something to do with butterflies.

Incidentally, the Lorenz attractor is a 3 D shape and it only looks "like a butterfly" from one direction.

Quote from the text Lorentz and the Butterfly Effect from the American Physical Society (APS) website: "It traced a distinctive double-spiral shape, aptly resembling a butterfly with its two wings."
https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200301/history.cfm

Are you an idiot, or do you realise that in the 1960s he wouldn't have had a computer that could plot- and a magazine wouldn't have published- a 3D image?

[Bored chemist]

If butterfly's could start hurricane's, there would be a lot more hurricanes as the butterfly's badly outnumber the swirly windy big sky circle's. If were talking one butterfly, what's the difference in that butterfly's flight then other's? that he causes a hurricane?

It's OK. You didn't need to post that.
We already know that you have no clue about science.

[trevorjohnson32]

Just in case you guys aren't joking, the butterfly has nothing to do with it.  The point is that for a chaotic process like the weather a very small disturbance can cause a big change.  That's it, no magic about a butterfly.

Chain reactions aren't really described by things that aren't chain reactions very well then. I wouldn't call the weather a chain reaction either unless you mean lightning which you don't.

[Kryptid]

Lorentz used to say that "even the flap of a butterfly's wings in Brazil can cause a tornado in Texas." So the butterfly effect clearly has something to do with butterflies.

He arbitrarily decided to use a butterfly in his example, but he could have used anything else if he wanted to and it would have been just as relevant. Do you really think, for example, that a butterfly flapping its wings could lead to a hurricane but no other animal flapping its wings could do that? Heck, a human sneeze could influence the weather just as much.

[trevorjohnson32]

It's OK. You didn't need to post that.
We already know that you have no clue about science.

Never will I ever worship the nonsense you claim to back your 'intelligence'. Lighten up D saur.

[Kryptid]

It's OK. You didn't need to post that.
We already know that you have no clue about science.

Never will I ever worship the nonsense you claim to back your 'intelligence'. Lighten up D saur.

You misunderstand the butterfly effect. It doesn't say that there is a direct correlation between butterflies and the formation of hurricanes. It is about the cause-and-effect relationships in very complex systems being unpredictable. Tiny changes in the initial state of a system can cause very large changes in its final state. A butterfly may cause a hurricane to form, or it may prevent one from forming, or it may cause a tornado or snowstorm instead.

[cpu68 (OP)]

If butterfly's could start hurricane's, there would be a lot more hurricanes as the butterfly's badly outnumber the swirly windy big sky circle's. If were talking one butterfly, what's the difference in that butterfly's flight then other's? that he causes a hurricane?

I would explain it this way: not every butterfly will cause a hurricane, but it can only cause one under certain conditions. Only very rarely does one of all the butterflies cause a hurricane. But thank you for trying to start an interesting discussion.

He arbitrarily decided to use a butterfly in his example, but he could have used anything else if he wanted to and it would have been just as relevant.

But the butterfly reflects the idea of small disturbances of initial conditions too well for its convergence with the Lorentz attractor to be just a coincidence.

Any Thoughts on the Domino Effect?

Domino effect - a situation in which one event triggers a whole series of events that follow one another and result from each other

Are you an idiot, or do you realise that in the 1960s he wouldn't have had a computer that could plot- and a magazine wouldn't have published- a 3D image?

Who exactly is the idiot here? You'd have to be blind or an idiot not to see the similarity between a butterfly and a Lorentz attractor, whether it's 2D or 3D doesn't matter.