[paul cotter (OP)]

This has always puzzled me. Sheet music identifies the notes to be played, the time signature and other "modulators" can be written down, ie allegro, andante, grave, etc. What variables can the conductor influence? Is it the intensity?

[Halc]

It's to keep everybody in sync. If you're in one corner of the band/orchestra, you might not be able to hear all the others, and one group can get devastatingly out of sync with others. We ran into this marching in Mexico city, 6 wide down a 2 lane road. A car was parked, blocking one lane, forcing 3 columns to go and the other three to follow. This spit the drums and made it so those in the rear could not see the conductor (the drum major up front with the super tall stick).  We got measures out of sync and it was a disaster. Those who heard both sides just stopped playing.

Anyway, imagine a classical piece with a dramatic pause or long held note. It is entirely not clear when the attack of the next note is supposed to be. The conductor makes this explicit, and everybody should be watching for it.

Small groups (jazz ensembles, barbershop quartet, etc) don't need one, but usually one of the players visible to all uses head/instrument motion to fill the role.

[alancalverd]

A conductor is a wannabe drummer who can't be trusted with two sticks.

The conductor is a relatively recent addition to music, and was not commonplace before the 1800s. Keeping the beat was always assigned to someone, either visible to the rest of the ensemble (e.g. first violin) or distinctly audible throughout the piece (double bass, harpsichord...), but the principal job of a non-playing conductor is to moderate the balance between sections more subtly than the dim and cresc markings on the score, and to add interest by varying the tempo and accent.

My favorite brass band conductor addressed the bass section  (John and me) with the memorable statement "Gentlemen: the purpose of a rehearsal is for me to interpret the composer's dream, not for you to consolidate your mistakes."

[Eternal Student]

Hi.

    I seem to recall what our conductor did....   To be honest, if our conductor made an impromptu change in something just on the night when a piece was being performed, then a lot of us would have missed it and played the thing as we did in rehersals anyway.   We would have eventually noticed but not before some of us had made timing mistakes or terrible noises.
     However, the conductor was there during rehersals and that's when they really did their thing - made some changes and generally managed the whole ensemble.   They were the master and overlord of this whole thing and so they do deserve their place right up at the very front of the group.
     So I think that the main contribution by the conductor is what has happened "behind the scenes" before the audience was there.   As @Halc suggested, there are going to be a few places where we did really have to see when we were supposed to start or end but even that would have been brought to our attention by the conductor and practised a few times during rehersals.

Best Wishes.

[paul cotter (OP)]

Thanks, all, for your contributions. Halc, I am going to dispute, most likely out of ignorance!, something you said. You suggested that after a long pause or a sustained note it is entirely not clear when the attack of the next note is supposed to be. Surely if one has a good sense of time(something I lack) coupled with the sheet music, one has a pretty good idea?

[alancalverd]

 

Surely if one has a good sense of time(something I lack) coupled with the sheet music, one has a pretty good idea?

Alas, no! And this from a bass player who is supposed to be holding the beat! Big bands spend most of the rehearsal time practicing introductions and endings, because everyone has a slightly different idea of tempo and tension. The most terrifying thing for a sight-reading deputy is that     last            NOTE!!!!   (sorry, chaps)


Apropos ES's contribution:

The orchestra was on tour. On the first night the conductor went sick. Panic meeting, but Second Viola said "No problem - I toured this book with John  two years ago, and I have his notes. I'll conduct until he recovers"

The tour went well, and on the last night the conductor had recovered enough to take the podium. Second Viola sat down, and First Viola said "Where the hell have you been for the last two weeks?"

[paul cotter (OP)]

Ok, so we are talking about the variation in individual interpretation of time?

[alancalverd]

Strict tempo has its place, whether for marching or dancing, but it isn't very interesting for a seated audience, and nor is strict adherence to constant volume (think the Motown "wall of sound" and the crap that passes for music in clubs for the aesthetically challenged), but it helps if everyone stays together throughout the variations.

Quote from Lesley Garrett, playing some of her recordings on the radio: "That was me versus the London Philharmonic Orchestra. Well, we started together and finished together, but I can only apologise for the bit in the middle." I know the feeling.

[Halc]

Halc, I am going to dispute, most likely out of ignorance!, something you said. You suggested that after a long pause or a sustained note it is entirely not clear when the attack of the next note is supposed to be. Surely if one has a good sense of time(something I lack) coupled with the sheet music, one has a pretty good idea?

They've practiced, so yes, but a pretty good idea doesn't get everyone on the attack simultaneously, and there's no beat to follow through say a fermata.

In a choir, our was small enough to lack a conductor, so heads turned to the organist and head nods. You get this piece with a loud long final note that needs an abrupt cutoff. All of us are looking at the organist (well to the side, hard to see from the rear, or down in a pit, invisible to the audience) for the head nod. It sounds terrible if the voices don't cut off as one.

[Halc]

To be honest, if our conductor made an impromptu change in something just on the night when a piece was being performed, then a lot of us would have missed it and played the thing as we did in rehearsals anyway.

It would seem terrible if any alteration was made without rehearsal. Yes, it's during rehearsal that he's most needed, but also most ignored because until the music is more familiar, concentration is mostly on the paper and less on the peripherally visible conductor..

We had a school band piece where you play the first half, then the 2nd which starts with one of those attacks after a long pause between the halves, then the first again exactly the same. In concert (a competition), our conductor was quite nervous and got to the end of the first half and mistaken thought he had finished, putting the baton down. We're all waiting for the attack signal. Of maybe 80 of us, I think I heard two small toots. The rest of us were watching and very confused. The band leader picked up on our distress immediately and resumed, but it wasn't supposed to go that way.

[Halc]

but the principal job of a non-playing conductor is to moderate the balance between sections more subtly than the dim and cresc markings on the score, and to add interest by varying the tempo and accent.

Not during performance I hope. This moderation (interpretation of the composer's dream) is done at rehearsal and hopefully not significantly changed in performance. There is also something to be said about changing it up when something is performed night after night, as opposed to school performances that tend to occur 1-3 times at best.


And Alan, love the anecdotes.

[paul cotter (OP)]

Thanks again to all, I believe I have a good grasp now of the subject.

[alancalverd]

school performances

Another anecdote. My son plays trombone. Conductor raises his baton, school big band takes a deep breath, and in the minim of expectant silence there's a clatter from the back of the brass section, followed by son's plaintive  "Please sir, my spit valve has fallen off." Instant applause, then a fair rendition of "Mood Indigo" played on a T'bone plugged with chewing gum.

Funny thing: after nearly 70 years of gigging, I have fond memories of hundreds of crazy near-disasters and just one really good solo.

[alancalverd]

a lot of us would have missed it and played the thing as we did in rehersals anyway.

And that is what scares a late-appointed deputy! Been there, done that, and found myself having to choose between following the conductor or guessing how the front line will interpret the next pause!

No problem depping in a small jazz band - confident players "lean back on the bass" anyway, to get that easy feel, but you occasionally come across an ostentatious (or deaf) drummer with different ideas.

[Bored chemist]

"What is the purpose of the conductor in an orchestra?"
Grounding.

[alancalverd]

And now you've got me started...

Here's a story I heard from a fellow bassist just yesterday. An Irish folk band asked him to dep for their regular bassman, known on the folk circuit as "Lightning" .

"With a name like that, I guess you'll be expecting some blazingly fast runs and tremoloes?"

"No, he never strikes the same note twice."

[alancalverd]

Oh if you insist, just one more:

Small groups (jazz ensembles, barbershop quartet, etc) don't need one, but usually one of the players visible to all uses head/instrument motion to fill the role.

Most trad jazz bands are led by the trumpeter, as he stands at the front and has the only instrument that can be played with one hand. I spent some time with a band led by the trombonist, who signalled with a very expressive right buttock.