Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: starburst on 11/06/2004 18:35:29
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hi does anyone know about the true effects of anti-depressants (eg zoloft) & anti-psychotics (eg seroquel) ? does it really do wonders for a bio-chemically depressed brain or does it do harm to it? once i came across some info that said that anti-depressants actually lowers your IQ, and causes permanent damage in adolescents who are prescribed such medication. that was from some online excerpt of a book and the excerpt stopped at that line.
is this true? i can't seem to find any info on the truth of anti-depressants...most of them seem to proclaim the wonders of them. the only bad thing i know abt seroquel is that it can cause cataracts in adults.
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I don't know about the long term mental effects of anti depressants, but they can cause a host of physical ailment like tinitus and impotency. Nothing that will kill you, but definately things that will make you hate life and want to go back on anti depressants.
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The problem is that the brain is horrendously complex - it amazes me that we have any drugs at all that can help with such illnesses without completely messing the patient up in different ways.
If you want to avoid side-effects from psychiatric medicine, best thing to do is to make sure your doc isn't prescribing you the latest fab new remedy: in fact, there has been next to no progress in drug design for many many years - the drug companies make their money by coming up with a new (very similar) drug and marketing it as "no known side-effects" - all side-effects not being known yet as they've only had small-scale trials :/ You're best off taking something where the side-effects (and there always will be a load) are well-understood and can therefore be closely monitored.
There are definitely people who benefit hugely from taking these drugs - people who could otherwise never live in the community are doing pretty well out there. They're also good for short-term use to get people back to a place from where they can get on with living. Certainly there are also people for whom psychological treatment is much more appropriate. This is why (in the UK anyway) mental health is handled by teams who can discuss what direction is best for any given patient.
Ack, long reply and not sure it actually answered your question :/
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My youngest daughter experienced depression while in high school. She was placed on an antidepressant called Paxil, a serotonin reuptake inhibitor similar to Prozac. The doctor, a psychopharmacologist, said that there was evidence that indicated that if you took the drug continuously for two years, that it actually changed the biochemistry of the brain and that there would be less incidence of depression later in life, ie menopausal depression. She did stay on it for the two years, she is no longer depressed, I don't think it affected her IQ because she graduated from college, valedictorian of her class. She is now married and expecting her first child. For her, it was a life saver. I haven't heard of any of the antidepressents actually affecting your IQ.
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I was given a number of anti-psychotic medications. The boast is that they increase your IQ for it treats an illness that normaly ill effects IQ. The charts for the one I now take which was released by Lilly in 98 is that it improved all areas of performance above the older medications such as Largactil. I took L and it was terrible. I was so drowsy that I thought it reduced my IQ for that very reason. I fell asleep in mass. But Doctors and nurses insist that it helps.
There are two issues here, one is that it can have an immediate impact on your IQ. The other is that it can have a long term effect on your IQ. If it can stop say hallucinations or delusions then it can bring you out and help your IQ immediately. This will also help in the long term for your IQ can be developed. Such as if you then study an advanced diploma... Also the recovery of motivation then will definetely enrich or at least maintain your IQ.
The drowsiness side-effect is said to be outweighed by the benefits. It is hard to convince people of that.
My bro needed Lithium as a twelve year old and it must have helped.
A Brisbane uni profesor developed a test for mental ability depending on concentration span. His is unusually long because of I think it was bipolar disorder. It involves a set of moving lights on a screen which are together, and an individual spot. It is to help one discover their strenghts.
Once off the medications I found that the side-effects wore off. But they left a mark on me. I did seem to lose something I had before. Something of alertness and perception. But this has happened to me naturally before and again this concerns a spiritual quality. Just thinking back again this initial quality loss happend both naturally and because of Melleril. The second because of Largactil.
The worst report I have is of flupenthixol which seemed to leave me with less freedom of movement and blurry vision and some view graininess. It's side-effect was Parkinson's symptoms.
The present medication only causes very slight dizziness. From being a skeptic I think it helps a little.
Titanscape
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/073820451X/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-1362079-2508761#reader-page
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/073820451X/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-1362079-2508761#reader-page
http://www.breggin.com
About the Author
With a background that Time magazine describes as "pure establishment"-Harvard College, Case Western Reserve Medical School, and a teaching fellowship at Harvard Medical School- Peter R. Breggin, M.D., has become an internationally known psychiatrist and author of a dozen books. The International Director of the Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology, Dr. Breggin lives in Bethesda, Maryland.
look at the book excerpts, although they are actually only content pages, yet some of the sentences are disturbing, especially the part concerning permanent brain damage in children, i suppose it will also affect adolescents. =/ worried, as i am an adolescent taking zoloft and seroquel. what the above information said may be true. the FDA knew about these side-effects from the beginning. there was once when i was looking through my sister's work (hehe i was bored) that she brought from home (she's in the advertising industry) and there was one page i came across from my country's health sciences authority that said diseases caused by any medication, eg insanity, diabetes, cataract, retention of physical/mental capacities etc should not be mentioned in any advertisement advertising medication, as they may generate fear in the consumers and not bring any business to the makers of the drugs i guess >_<. these side-effects are actually left to the consumers to find out for themselves.
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the fact that the anti-depressants and anti-psychotics cause more side-effects than they bring about good, is probably a warning sign that it causes more harm than good. (argh, sorry my mind is sort of muddled right now, as i took medication last night. stopped taking them for many weeks as i wasn't sure that i really needed them. then had to start taking them again when i realized that i was becoming very forgetful and could sometimes stop in midway and forget what i just said and once i was arguing with my sis, i found it difficult to continue on arguing with her as my mind was quite muddled. =/)
also, once you're off medication, you will still suffer side-effects, which can last for more than a few months. it's called serotonin discontinuation syndrome.
http://www.theberries.ns.ca/Archives/2001Fall/SSRI_discontinuation.html
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The truth is that we don't understand how the brain works, so we have little hope of understanding how an anti-depressant or an anti-psychotic drug really works either.
But what we do know is that depression is associated with a reduction in the brain's pleasure, motivational or reward-related chemicals - termed monoamines - serotonin, nor adrenaline and dopamine.
The first generations of agents that were developed to treat depression targeted these monoamine systems and, ironically, owe their origins to tuberculosis. In the 1950's, whilst testing anti-TB drugs, doctors found improved mood amongst patients taking isoniazid. This led to the discovery of iproniazid (a chemical relative of isoniazid), the first MAOI or monoamine oxidase inhibitor, which worked by blocking the breakdown of monoamines (dopamine, serotonin and nor-adrenaline).
But interestingly, despite the fact that you could measure the chemical effect of these agents almost immediately after they are administered (in other words the monoamine levels in the brain are much higher) patients who take them don't report any benefit for at least 2-3 weeks. This time scale would be more consistent with the brain in some way being re-wiring itself, or more exciting still, new cells forming under the influence of the anti-depressant and helping to repair damage that is in some way contributing to the low mood.
Indeed, it turns out that antidepressants like Seroxat are powerful growth factors for CNS stem cells. We know that small populations of adult stem cells persist in the mature CNS and continue to divide into old age, giving rise to a new neuronal cell population. Many of these new cells (over half) die fairly soon after they are produced, but in the presence of an anti-depressant many more persist.
It is therefore very tempting to speculate that antidepressants help to heal the brain by promoting the survival of newborn neurones produced by stem cells in discrete brain regions. These nascent cells could then wire-in and help to boost mood. In support of this theory, when scientists blocked the birth of new neurones in the brains of experimental animals, antidepressants stopped producing beneficial effects.
But for those of you unwilling to pop pills, another way to increase the production and survival of new brain cells is sex and exercise - both of which are well known for their mood-promoting effects !
Chris
Further information about CNS stem cells and their response to antidepressants :
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/neurogenesis.html
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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So, do they give people with brain injuries antidepressants, to see if they can stimulate any repair?
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Actually, yes, though often indirectly.
For instance, most people who suffer a stroke develop depression afterwards and are given antidepressants. People who suffer serious head injuries are also highly likely to become depressed (often due to DAI - diffuse axonal injury) and they too often end up on antidepressants. But you have to be careful because antidepressants are pro-epileptic because they lower the seizure threshold and people with head injuries are prone to epilepsy and fitting.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx