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General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 02/04/2021 03:52:32

Title: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 02/04/2021 03:52:32
For example, let's say one of the ambassadors successfully seizes control of the UN and declares themself Secretary General for life. Would this be really concerning? Especially if he uses his unchecked powers to do things such as forming pointless committees, censuring/sanctioning members that displease him, and endlessly sending dockets he personally wrote to the assembly for approval.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: CliffordK on 02/04/2021 06:27:15
In theory, a group of the permanent members of the UN Security Council could get together and change all the rules in their favor. 

However, the concept of a Coup is to to overthrow a legitimate government with military action, as well as hold the government with military power.  With the UN headquartered in the USA, really the only country that could do that would be the USA.  Even though we've just endured a tumultuous last 4 years, such an attack on the UN seems unlikely.

Keep in mind that the UN has very little real power on its own.  It can pass resolutions and reprimands.  It does have some military force, but that is entirely dependent on the member states.

Anyway, the UN is fairly well insulated from a Coup, except perhaps the USA, and even that wouldn't really matter.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 02/04/2021 08:39:33
In theory, a group of the permanent members of the UN Security Council could get together and change all the rules in their favor.

However, the concept of a Coup is to to overthrow a legitimate government with military action, as well as hold the government with military power.  With the UN headquartered in the USA, really the only country that could do that would be the USA.  Even though we've just endured a tumultuous last 4 years, such an attack on the UN seems unlikely.

Keep in mind that the UN has very little real power on its own.  It can pass resolutions and reprimands.  It does have some military force, but that is entirely dependent on the member states.

Anyway, the UN is fairly well insulated from a Coup, except perhaps the USA, and even that wouldn't really matter.

My "question" here, as all my "questions" on the "Just Chat" section, is 100% not serious. My attempted joke here is a play on the meaningless and powerlessness of the UN.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: evan_au on 02/04/2021 09:10:51
Quote from: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey
the meaningless and powerlessness of the UN.
A US president who wants to "Make America Great Again" and doesn't care about any other country sounds great to the US voters, but is viewed with great concern by other countries around the world.

In terms of defeating world challenges like COVID-19, a MAGA philosophy is meaningless and powerless.

UN-sponsored international communication is more effective at dealing with world problems than splendid isolation.

Quote from: Melinda Gates
From the beginning of the pandemic, we have urged wealthy nations to remember that COVID‐19 anywhere is a threat everywhere

Thinking that you can be independent from the rest of the world (eg by building a wall, or by pumping out increased levels of pollutants or by vaccinating your own citizens) is self-defeating.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: alancalverd on 02/04/2021 10:08:04
The UN has no fundraising powers and no electricity generating capability. The self-appointed Secretary-General would quickly find himself in the dark and short of a taxi fare, whilst the reconstituted League of Nations (or UN2021 plc) set up shop a few blocks away.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 04/04/2021 04:58:25
A US president who wants to "Make America Great Again" and doesn't care about any other country sounds great to the US voters, but is viewed with great concern by other countries around the world.

In terms of defeating world challenges like COVID-19, a MAGA philosophy is meaningless and powerless.

UN-sponsored international communication is more effective at dealing with world problems than splendid isolation.

I am no defender of my former president, but passing judgement with your "splendid isolation" comment is a bit hypocritical. Withdrawing from the EU ? Remember?
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Colin2B on 04/04/2021 08:28:36
UN-sponsored international communication is more effective at dealing with world problems than splendid isolation.
I am no defender of my former president, but passing judgement with your "splendid isolation" comment is a bit hypocritical. Withdrawing from the EU ? Remember?
I’m not aware that Australia ever withdrew from the EU  ;D
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: alancalverd on 04/04/2021 18:24:33
Withdrawing from the EU ?
Unwilling passengers leaving the s(t)inking ship, my friend. AFAIK my countrymen remain open to doing business with friendly foreigners, and participating in the UN, NATO, WHO, CERN, Council of Europe, Commonwealth, Interpol, Five Eyes.... just not a crooked trade cartel with illegitimate political ambitions..
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: charles1948 on 05/04/2021 23:46:46
If the UN ever tries to seriously threaten our country, we can remind it of these facts:

1. We have a submarine patrolling in the Atlantic.

2. Our submarine is equipped with long-range nuclear missiles, fitted with 100-kiloton thermonuclear warheads.

3..These warheads have sufficient explosive power to entirely vaporise your UN Building in New York City.

4. So -  don't mess with us, UN, or you may regret it. Terminally.

Isn't this all we need to say to the UN?

Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: alancalverd on 06/04/2021 17:39:41
Vaporising a building will not terminate the UN, merely cause a temporary inconvenience whilst the member nations (excluding the UK) appoint new ambassadors and the New York Fire Department clears up the mess.

But I see your point: you are thinking of the United Nations invading some sovereign territory. Not a bad idea. How about  bringing civilisation to Northern Ireland for a start?
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Bored chemist on 06/04/2021 17:47:03
How about  bringing civilisation to Northern Ireland for a start?
That was going quite well until some idiot decided to sacrifice it to Brexit.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Bored chemist on 06/04/2021 17:52:11
If the UN ever tries to seriously threaten our country, we can remind it of these facts:

1. We have a submarine patrolling in the Atlantic.

2. Our submarine is equipped with long-range nuclear missiles, fitted with 100-kiloton thermonuclear warheads.

3..These warheads have sufficient explosive power to entirely vaporise your UN Building in New York City.

4. So -  don't mess with us, UN, or you may regret it. Terminally.

Isn't this all we need to say to the UN?


Presumably, they would remind us that the remaining members of  the UN security council have enough nukes to essentially  scorch the UK off the map.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 06/04/2021 22:19:57
Withdrawing from the EU ?
Unwilling passengers leaving the s(t)inking ship, my friend. AFAIK my countrymen remain open to doing business with friendly foreigners, and participating in the UN, NATO, WHO, CERN, Council of Europe, Commonwealth, Interpol, Five Eyes.... just not a crooked trade cartel with illegitimate political ambitions..
That is the posh version for Boris Johnson, Farrage etc, the working class version is 5,000,000 people moving into the working class areas of the UK putting immense strain on the housing sector.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: alancalverd on 06/04/2021 23:53:56
How about  bringing civilisation to Northern Ireland for a start?
That was going quite well until some idiot decided to sacrifice it to Brexit.
Never mind ancient history, let's  just look at "peacetime". The Northern Ireland Executive was formed in 1999, long before Brexit became a Thing. Since then it has been suspended or dissolved for as many days as it has actually sat, and its only achievement seems to have been to give £500,000,000 of UK taxpayers' money to people to burn wood pellets that cost less than the "subsidy".

The Brexit problem, at least as voiced by this week's rioters, was an abject failure to extricate Northern Ireland from the EU, because the criminals that run the place threatened to do more crime if the border was properly policed. Just like Switzerland, eh?   
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: alancalverd on 06/04/2021 23:58:07
5,000,000 people moving into the working class areas of the UK putting immense strain on the housing sector.
and thus increasing house prices and bank profits, whilst decreasing wages. What's not to like? 
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 07/04/2021 00:04:58
5,000,000 people moving into the working class areas of the UK putting immense strain on the housing sector.
and thus increasing house prices and bank profits, whilst decreasing wages. What's not to like? 
I cannot say that " bank profits" is a suitable phrase. The banks are like a teenager that wants to borrow its parents car. They borrow it for their own benefit, mess it up, run it into the floor, fail to refuel it and once repairs are needed it is swiftly deposited back to the parents.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: alancalverd on 07/04/2021 10:13:16
...meanwhile making profits for their shareholders and bonuses for their executives, unlike the businesses they caused to fail.
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/04/2021 11:17:22
The Northern Ireland Executive was formed in 1999, long before Brexit became a Thing.
Six years after UKIP was formed...

The point is that Brexit was going to be a problem for the NI border.
The brexiteers said that it wouldn't be.
And now we can see that they lied.
its only achievement seems to have been ...
You forgot "peace".
Some people thought that more important than blue passports.

And it's not as if the NI assembly is the only thing that has done daft things in the name of being green.
Just like Switzerland   
That's what the Brexiteers said that the NI border would be like.
The grown-ups disagreed.
Who turned out to be right?
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: evan_au on 07/04/2021 11:40:57
Quote from: charles1948
.These warheads have sufficient explosive power to entirely vaporise your UN Building in New York City.
As I recall, the USA got rather upset about destruction of another building in New York City....
- It deposited a lot of asbestos dust in the city, but no nuclear radiation.
- A nuclear explosion that destroyed the UN building would destroy a lot of buildings on Manhatten Island.

There are gentler ways for the USA to say that the UN is no longer welcome in New York:
- All of the national representatives at the UN are diplomatic staff
- There are well-defined procedures for a host country to state that specific diplomatic staff are no longer welcome, and they have 7 days to leave.

But seriously, if the UN HQ moved to another country (say, Germany), the US spy agencies would have to work twice as hard to spy on the conversations of all of the UN representatives. It's just easier to leave it where it is...
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: alancalverd on 07/04/2021 19:41:46
The grown-ups disagreed.
I think you mean the fraudsters murderers and morons who run Northern Ireland (on the few occasions that they can be bothered to turn up, that is).
Title: Re: How concerning would a United Nations coup be?
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/04/2021 22:50:18
The grown-ups disagreed.
I think you mean the fraudsters murderers and morons who run Northern Ireland (on the few occasions that they can be bothered to turn up, that is).
No.
I mean all the competent commentators on the idea that Brexit magically wasn't going to screw the Irish border issue.
For example, quite a few of them were in the USA.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/16/us-uk-trade-deal-in-danger-if-good-friday-agreement-jeopardised-democrats-warn