Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: vampares on 23/09/2014 00:15:57

Title: Is biofuel a lie?
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 00:15:57
Talk about biofuel, biofuel industry is so rife with conspiracy it is sickening.  Fact is biofuel fuels NASA.

They use the automobile fuel industry to drop their costs down to the essentially free petro market.  They say nothing about what fuels their rockets -- I'd assume as not to disrupt the corn futures.  But this is very a tightly held secret.

US fuel ethanol provides essentially no fossil fuel usage benefit over straight petro.  The amount of fossil fuels used during production has recently been determined to be greater than the energy output of the fuel ethanol industry, despite the biomass input to the system.

SURPRISE!  It's all a sham again!
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 00:21:59
Nuts.

Well, dirty industry does not proffer on the open market.  Free market economy especially includes something like a "power plant".  You can refer to a fuel ethanol plant as a "power plant".

But fail, fail and fail again.  From being unprofitable to being repeatedly hit by the tornado this dirty power plant creates, nothing stops this shithead show.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 00:26:09
I've heard a lot of support for biofuels.  I personally like the concept of reserving petro for when it is needed.  I would like to see petro sources replenished.

Biofuels are a false hope for an environmentalist in a market that is controlled by gift government moneys.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 00:35:01
Would it have been so bad if the US government had directly funded biofuel power plants on standard terms and conditions?

Surely the money hemorrhaging stops somewhere.  But when criminals are funding the fueling with money laundering, lies and fraud -- NO.  It does not stop.  And here the fundamental sciences are reduced nothings, cranks and has-beens.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 01:05:37
The US government has a Ronald-Reagan-policy which prevents it from funding an industry.  Donald Regan economic believe that all investment should come from "Investment" derived from GDP (except what the government takes of GDP) despite the enormous take on our economy.

Just take it back?  HUH

Live and die in the United States of America.

The US looks like this today.  It's been improving.

(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.org%2F3n6tig0m1%2Frgb_animated.gif&hash=070b89b25a48f990d68f92a6db795eaf)
Title: "Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall"
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 03:37:48
The climate change situation, which will also be covered by this topic, has been likened to a

"frog in a pot of water on a stove" by the Weather Channel

the metaphor of a frog not paying attention to arising danger of ever increasing temperature is you and I.  And yes that frog boils.

I would liken the situation to having a case of the "Humpty Dumpty's"

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall;
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

As an Industrial Systems Technologist my job is to insure that a plant, the plant I am charged with is in conformance.
 Conformance with what?  Well, OGG, in conformance with the laws.  If I allow a plant to generate a problem it is my responsibility to shut off all relevant systems.

But this is not an Investment derived of the GDP.  The 200+ fuel ethanol plants in the US are not good investments, as I stated before.  Technically they should be in bankruptcy.  Therefore they are bad investments.  Ironically when competing with petro the price per gallon of fuel ethanol is not enough to cover costs.

Shame the lawmaker who would suggest the technology just has not matured.  There is no room for new technology.  Nor is there money for it.  Is advancement of technology funded or are the debts conveniently covered up?

And like all narcissists. . . the environmental destruction far and wide. . . the environment which devastates the infrastructure. . . they choose to ignore it.  So self absorbed they have no mind of the manslaughter they have committed.

Hmm.


See it's not that the Kings horses or the Kings men can't "put Humpty together again", they just left Humpty lying on the ground to die.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 03:42:52
I love this video Souldrop - Give The Kids Some Science (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4mzQCLSlE&index=47&list=PL-tPpsSFEGl7Bm06-o0mR_e263f4fpGtN)

"...science becomes lifeless"

When science becomes lifeless so does the Earth?

What happens when it becomes ~too excited~?  If manslaughter were committed, I don't know that I could expect a man to turn himself in.  But I would also expect him to correct himself.  sh1t happens.  Only my chicken sh1t lets it happen twice.

You could tell me this has nothing to do with science.  Oh, you can blasé walk around your nearly hazardous (but we knew better, or do you work for Dupont?) work.  No there is no need to check science.  Not here on earth.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: alancalverd on 23/09/2014 07:42:10
Calm down, dear, it's only the environment.

Every species pollutes its environment with its excretions and eventually, in a closed system, extinguishes itself. The only difference with homo sapiens is the speed with which we can do it, and the number of other species we will take with us.

Actually there is another difference: like a very few others (wildebeeste and badgers spring to mind) we can limit our numbers to an indefinitely sustainable level. Interestingly, that level would offer a far better standard of living than most of us endure today.

So why don't we? Politics and religion, apparently.  There's no rational objection and no practical barrier.     
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 15:52:39
It raises a larger question:

Is science fundamentally flawed when the clouds disappear from the sky and no one notices?  Nice fluffy white clouds that is. 

----

Apparently if anyone were to notice how disgusting the sky was that person is now a conspiracy theorist.

In defense those living in the UK, the UK still have clouds.

It is interesting who does notice changes for example mytime103 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2PmkhcR47UXyu__cbIy_3Q).  There is another youtube channel, something like "lobotexan" which also videoed atmospheric anomaly.

In defense those living in the UK, the UK still had a few normal looking clouds, at least they did a few years ago when I was there.

The United States is largely oblivious.  You know its getting bad when weatherchannel users are posting bogus photos of good days.

----

But where are our eyes on the sky at?  While it could be said tornadoes are not uncommon in the United States, they don't just come from nowhere.

Is science fundamentally flawed such that we can no longer function properly?  See our own hand in front of our faces, if you will.

Was it Spinoza who work under the premise that we can know what we know because there is no way of knowing it wasn't all a dream?

Is science taking up this modernist period philosophical premise that life is but a dream?
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 16:35:02
Quote from: alancalverd on 23/09/2014 07:42:10
Calm down, dear, it's only the environment.

Every species pollutes its environment with its excretions and eventually, in a closed system, extinguishes itself. The only difference with homo sapiens is the speed with which we can do it, and the number of other species we will take with us.

Actually there is another difference: like a very few others (wildebeeste and badgers spring to mind) we can limit our numbers to an indefinitely sustainable level. Interestingly, that level would offer a far better standard of living than most of us endure today.

So why don't we? Politics and religion, apparently.  There's no rational objection and no practical barrier.     

That reminds me of the Human Centipede (http://www.andymiah.net/2010/08/29/the-human-centipede-and-bioethics/).

You have to watch the trailer as well 'The Human Centipede' Trailer HD (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX8fKLjC__c)

If the handler is more gruesome the bullshit becomes more believable.  The best we could hope to convey from this film is that a few people may be fearful of visiting Germany.  As to German credibility, it may well be questioned less often and acceptance is predicated on nothing more than a line drawing.


I don't know how many other peoples first thought was that if you closed the loop, you have achieved sustainability.

OK so that was not my first thought,


premise:
Certain people are more prone to traveling abroad.  Menstruating or pregnant women in particular.  I'm not sure if they would be more or less apt to have their mouths sown to their assholes or not . . . please don't go to Germany.

This is esoteric comedy.  We are not scared.

Now, if you think this may have scared them, you could be quite off the mark.  This is like two ships passing in the night.



Science is still dealing with the fact that a line drawing is a perfectly acceptable form of communication, we are still trying to piece together what the hypothesis is exactly.  Do you remember what it was exactly?


He said some stuff in German I cannot translate.  Do we have a hypothesis yet?


The proposed digestion is a linear cow stomach (http://www.cattle-empire.net/blog/119/how-do-cows-eat-grass).
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: alancalverd on 23/09/2014 17:06:34
I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you a genius or a lunatic? I've dismissed "drunk" because your spelling is immaculate.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 17:45:51
Well, now, see if I am to work further I will need to know if you need any extras first.  Such as tyeing the cardiovascular system together or laxatives.

Maybe thats not right, but I don't see any harm in it.  And those who go to work everyday should tell you the same thing.


Is the blame on technology?

science > technology > industry

Is technology going to point the finger at industry now?


I don't live in a dream world.  I know the Human Centipede in the final scenes is just three people on their knees with their faces in each others asses.  Is that an accurate enough description?

But pretend that we have sown one of these things together.  I'll tell you right now there is a high likelihood of medical complications.  We know this is not desirable.  This is clearly not for everyone.  I don't think this thing could function in daily life.  I do think this is a viable digestive pathway (given all functions are go) but it is a detraction from optimal human digestion not an enhancement of it.

I said I didn't see any harm in it.  I was referring to environmental and societal harm of one of these Human Centipedes.  Medical harm, psychological harm -- not ruled out.  This "closed system" may suffer.  Weighing the risk for harm against no known benefit, I won't be trying this at home.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: alancalverd on 23/09/2014 18:15:08
Quote from: vampares on 23/09/2014 17:45:51

science > technology > industry


Probably only in the case of nuclear power and the laser. Almost every other scientific advance has begun with the failure of a product, or a malfunction of a human being. Somebody tries an "engineering" bodge and then we work out how to improve the bodge, which requires scientific investigation of why the bodge works at all. Hence thermodynamics, antibiotics, x-rays..... 
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: vampares on 23/09/2014 18:29:44
hmm, you think he's really going to do then, huh. JK

technology > science < industry ?

or

industry > technology > science
and
science < technology < industry

or

technology <> science <> industry
industry <> science <> technology


Oh wait, you're saying technology is King?  So it's all funded by Tang and Astronaut Ice Cream.
Title: Re: Biofuel Bomb: Fuel Ethanol is a Lie
Post by: alancalverd on 26/09/2014 09:19:33
History suggests

need (hunger, sickness, war...) > industry > technology > science except in a very few cases.

Flying to the moon is probably the most spectacular example of pure curiosity leading to a major industry (pointless apps on a smartphone) but even then it took several centuries for the curiosity to be piggybacked on a political need, and much of the technology had already been developed in wartime.
Title: Re: Is biofuel a lie?
Post by: BenTaylor on 17/02/2016 21:03:39
Quote from: vampares on 23/09/2014 00:15:57
Talk about biofuel, biofuel industry is so rife with conspiracy it is sickening.  Fact is biofuel fuels NASA.

They use the automobile fuel industry to drop their costs down to the essentially free petro market.  They say nothing about what fuels their rockets -- I'd assume as not to disrupt the corn futures.  But this is very a tightly held secret.

US fuel ethanol provides essentially no fossil fuel usage benefit over straight petro.  The amount of fossil fuels used during production has recently been determined to be greater than the energy output of the fuel ethanol industry, despite the biomass input to the system.

SURPRISE!  It's all a sham again!

That's true of ethanol, but not all biofuels. If you burn straight wood or any other organic material, the only energy expenditure is that of harvesting, and all the rest is carbon neutral. You know, because the carbon cycle.

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