Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: smart on 26/09/2017 12:59:00
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This Friday I'm going to visit a new psychiatrist and I'm planning to stop further treatments. I read on Wikipedia that 2 years is sufficient for stopping antipsychotic medication. I'm now undergoing my fifth years of continuous treatment with aripiprazole and so far I survived the process. When does a psychiatrist can feel it is appropriate to stop ongoing treatments? I really want to have a normal life again and feel anxious about the long-term side effects of this "medication".
What do you think?
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It's an unfortunate fact that medications often have undesirable side effects. If you are worried about them, have you considered trying an alternative medication? What was your life like before you started medication? Why did your doctor start you on it to begin with?
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If you are worried about them, have you considered trying an alternative medication?
No. They are all the same to me.
What was your life like before you started medication?
I used to work as a software developer.
Why did your doctor start you on it to begin with?
Because I believe in the weaponization of geoengineering and refuse to accept climate change in my life, I guess...
Thanks for writing, Kryptid.
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Because I believe in the weaponization of geoengineering and refuse to accept climate change in my life, I guess...
Having eccentric beliefs alone would not warrant the prescription of any kind of medication, in my opinion. I seriously doubt everyone who believes in geoengineering is on medication for it. I imagine that such medication would only be prescribed if these beliefs, or some behavior caused by them, was disruptive to living a normal life. Since I doubt you were the one who went to the doctor on your own about this, who was it that recommended that you go and for what reason? Did you actually have a behavior that caused problems for yourself or others?
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Having eccentric beliefs alone would not warrant the prescription of any kind of medication, in my opinion. I seriously doubt everyone who believes in geoengineering is on medication for it. I imagine that such medication would only be prescribed if these beliefs, or some behavior caused by them, was disruptive to living a normal life. Since I doubt you were the one who went to the doctor on your own about this, who was it that recommended that you go and for what reason? Did you actually have a behavior that caused problems for yourself or others?
According to the DSM-IV handbook, freethinking and nonconformity may now be considered a mental disorder:
https://theunboundedspirit.com/nonconformity-and-freethinking-now-considered-mental-illnesses/
But seriously, I find that without doing any objective testing on the root causes of schizophrenia, this "disorder" is purely subjective.
Besides, the primary difficulty I was having in my old life was unemployement. I never suffered from hearing voices, or had psychotic episodes.
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According to the DSM-IV handbook, freethinking and nonconformity may now be considered a mental disorder:
https://theunboundedspirit.com/nonconformity-and-freethinking-now-considered-mental-illnesses/
That's not what I'm getting out of that. What makes Oppositional Defiant Disorder a disorder is that it actually causes problems: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/oppositional-defiant-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20024559 (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/oppositional-defiant-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20024559). If a person is constantly arguing with their boss, teachers or parents and ignoring their responsibilities, that's going to be problematic. That goes beyond mere "free-thinking" and "nonconformity".
But seriously, I find that without doing any objective testing on the root causes of schizophrenia, this "disorder" is purely subjective.
I'm not an expert on the condition so I can't comment on its causes.
Besides, the primary difficulty I was having in my old life was unemployement. I never suffered from hearing voices, or had psychotic episodes.
Who was it that sent you to see a psychiatrist and why? Was it due to your unemployment? Why were you unemployed?
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Who was it that sent you to see a psychiatrist and why? Was it due to your unemployment? Why were you unemployed?
My loving mother did. She thinks unemployment is a mental disorder.
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My loving mother did. She thinks unemployment is a mental disorder.
There must have been some reason for it. Were you simply not looking for work? Were you looking but not able to find any? You say that you once worked as a software developer. What happened there? Did you quit?
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There must have been some reason for it. Were you simply not looking for work? Were you looking but not able to find any? You say that you once worked as a software developer. What happened there? Did you quit?
Software development is a very competitive field. I lost several job opportunities because of my lack of experience and interest in building websites strictly for the web.
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Software development is a very competitive field. I lost several job opportunities because of my lack of experience and interest in building websites strictly for the web.
I see. I'm sorry to hear that. Regardless, there must be some reason that your mother thought you needed to be sent to a psychiatrist. Merely being unemployed wouldn't be enough. Merely being unemployed wouldn't cause a psychiatrist to diagnose you with schizophrenia.
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Unless you are under a Court order to attend psychiatric treatment, you surely aren't under any compulsion to attend or to take any medication?
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Unless you are under a Court order to attend psychiatric treatment, you surely aren't under any compulsion to attend or to take any medication?
Yeah, initially a court order forced me to take monthly injections. But the court order expired a long time ago and I was just following my psychiatrist recommendations until she got pregnant. Right now I got a new psychiatrist and I intend to persuade him about stopping this madness! :)
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There is some evidence that cannabis use may contribute to development of schizophrenia.
Ensure you tell your new doctor about any herbal remedies you may be taking.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_cannabis#Chronic_psychosis
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There is some evidence that cannabis use may contribute to development of schizophrenia.
Ensure you tell your new doctor about any herbal remedies you may be taking.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_cannabis#Chronic_psychosis
Reefer Madness, anyone? ;)
Without any objective testing for properly diagnosing schizophrenia, this "mental disease" is subjective and not based on scientific evidences whatsoever.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Diagnosis
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Yeah, initially a court order forced me to take monthly injections.
Sounds like something of a serious nature must have occurred in order for this to have happened.
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As the late, tormented Kurt Cobain wrote "Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you." You have to take things ss they come. Accept advice and don't think that just because you are doing well now you won't need assistance in the future.
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Life isn't fair. Someone with a missing leg isn't looked down upon for needing to use a prosthetic limb or a crutch. But someone with a mental/emotional instability may be perceived by some as having a flawed character. The person with that instability may see themselves that way, too. It is understandable to wish that the instability were not there, bit if it is then the medication should be seen as a blessing, not a curse, just as the prosthetic limb is a blessing to the one with a missing leg. Do you have a better overall quality of life while on the meds versus off of the meds? Be honest, if you can. It is difficult to be objective because you may have conflicting interests -- the desire for a good quality of life versus your perceptions of yourself. You may also be conflicted because of side effects from the meds or the cost. You will need to trust the independent objective opinions of others. If those objective, educated observers say that you need the meds, accept that and be glad that the meds are available to you. It is fair to ask if the meds are still needed or what the alternatives are, but your goal should be to maximize your quality of life, not persuade your mental health professional to do something that might not be in your best interests.
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You may also be conflicted because of side effects from the meds or the cost.
I might have developed asymptomatic hypertension from prolonged aripiprazole therapy. Thus I really think my overall health has degraded since I'm on this stuff. Life isn't fair surely but it is the responsibility of my psychiatrist to ensure the treatment isn't putting my life in jeopardy. Otherwise there's no need for anyone to risk his life to be socially accepted. Schizophrenia is just a poorly defined mental disease in my opinion...
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Psychiatry sucks because it is not based on actual evidences and rely on junk science to rationalize the use of brain-altering drugs to become socially accepted.
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And where's @exothermic when you need him... ;)
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Psychiatry sucks because it is not based on actual evidences and rely on junk science to rationalize the use of brain-altering drugs to become socially accepted.
And where would you be right now if psychiatry did not exist? Be honest! You were court-ordered to have a psychiatric evaluation because of something you said or did. You need to own that.
All medications are based on experimentation and statistics. None of it is 100% foolproof. What can be frustrating with some psychiatric medications is that it can takes a few months to determine if that medication is working for you. If you have already made up your mind that the only answer you will accept is the answer you want to hear, then that is on you, not the entire field of psychiatry.
Have you consulted with a neuro-therapist? Neuro-therapy is not a magic bullet, but for some maladies it can be remarkably effective and without the side effects of medications. I have used neuro-therapy to address a degradation in my cognitive function that resulted from kidney disease and dialysis. One good thing about it is that if it is going to benefit you that benefit can be experienced within days, not months, so the therapy can be tweaked quickly to find something effective.
No matter what kind of doctor you consult with, if you try to manipulate the outcome with lies or by withholding the full truth no one will be able to help you.
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It is understandable to wish that the instability were not there, bit if it is then the medication should be seen as a blessing, not a curse,
That's a very interesting and thought-provoking way point. Thank you for making it.
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Psychiatry sucks because it is not based on actual evidences and rely on junk science to rationalize the use of brain-altering drugs to become socially accepted.
And where would you be right now if psychiatry did not exist? Be honest! You were court-ordered to have a psychiatric evaluation because of something you said or did. You need to own that.
All medications are based on experimentation and statistics. None of it is 100% foolproof. What can be frustrating with some psychiatric medications is that it can takes a few months to determine if that medication is working for you. If you have already made up your mind that the only answer you will accept is the answer you want to hear, then that is on you, not the entire field of psychiatry.
Have you consulted with a neuro-therapist? Neuro-therapy is not a magic bullet, but for some maladies it can be remarkably effective and without the side effects of medications. I have used neuro-therapy to address a degradation in my cognitive function that resulted from kidney disease and dialysis. One good thing about it is that if it is going to benefit you that benefit can be experienced within days, not months, so the therapy can be tweaked quickly to find something effective.
No matter what kind of doctor you consult with, if you try to manipulate the outcome with lies or by withholding the full truth no one will be able to help you.
Thanks for writing @kazbert. :)
I suggest you research "sluggish schizophrenia". Psychiatry can be used as a political weapon to repress
independent freethinking. The "court order" is something which can be forged to rationalize
the use of brain-altering drugs (antipsychotics) on nonconforming people. You really don't need to have done or said anything in specific to become a victim of psychiatric oppression.
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@exothermic can you read this? ;D
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There is some evidence that cannabis use may contribute to development of schizophrenia.
Directly from your link: "The authors found that cannabis use alone does not predict the transition to subsequent psychiatric illness."
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You really don't need to have done or said anything in specific to become a victim of psychiatry oppression.
And you have been targeted with psychiatric oppression because ...?
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You really don't need to have done or said anything in specific to become a victim of psychiatry oppression.
And you have been targeted with psychiatric oppression because ...?
Life is complicated.
I've been targeted with antipsychotic drugs because of my "eccentric beliefs" and unemployment.
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There is some evidence that cannabis use may contribute to development of schizophrenia.
Directly from your link: "The authors found that cannabis use alone does not predict the transition to subsequent psychiatric illness."
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Thanks for writing @exothermic... :)
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Thanks for writing @exothermic... :)
Outside of neurodevelopmental exposure [[during adolescence]].... there doesn't seem to be much of an increased risk.
Potential biological risks include: complications [[before or during birth]] (such as infections, poor nutrition while in the womb, maternal stress or birth trauma) (Meli et al., 2012); cannabis use, especially [[in adolescence]] (Arseneault et al., 2004; Moore et al., 2007)
One well established theory is the neurodevelopmental hypothesis (Fatemi & Folsom, 2009), which proposes that some people have a vulnerability to developing psychosis and schizophrenia that arises due to the interaction of genetic and environmental risks around the time of birth.
Population studies such as the NEMESIS project (de Leon et al., 2005) and the UK AESOP study (Chen et al., 2013) have shown that a number of ‘environmental’ factors predict those who are more likely to show persistence and worsening of symptoms, including: cannabis exposure [[in adolescence]], social deprivation, absence of a parent and the experience of childhood abuse or neglect.
Affective dysregulation has been shown to be a dimension that is both highly comorbid with psychosis (now argued to be a dimension of psychosis) and a strong feature in its early development (Evins et al., 2005); the presence of affective dysfunction in adolescence, particularly depression and social anxiety, has been shown to be a predictor of transition from psychotic experience to psychotic disorder (Bloch et al., 2010).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK333029/
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Life is complicated.
I've been targeted with antipsychotic drugs because of my "eccentric beliefs" and unemployment.
I'm an mechanical engineer. We have arrived at a point in this discussion where I would need to know a lot more about psychiatric evaluation and therapies to be helpful regarding your desires to get off of anti-psychotics. For example, I have no idea what kind of eccentric beliefs a psychiatrist would deem benign versus inhibiting your effective and/or safe functioning in society. I would have to believe that your current position is frustrating to you and perhaps even frightening. I wish you the best, but I am out of my depth here.
[edit -- corrected typo]
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I'm an mechanical engineer. We have arrived at a point in this discussion where I would need to know a lot more about psychiatric evaluation and therapies to be helpful regarding your desires to get off of anti-psychotics.
The desire to get off antipsychotics is legitimate for anyone who may have been victimized by unjustified psychiatric treatments. A behavior or misbehavior does not justify the penalty of a prolonged psychiatric assault. I have survived 5 years taking aripiprazole and declare hopefully that I do not need this drug anymore for properly functioning.
[But this battle is not over yet, I still have to reclaim the full ownership of my body and mind to my "psychiatrist", who just desperately peddle to make me accept my monthly dose of unwarranted "medication".]
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I DID IT!!! ;D
I SURVIVED PSYCHIATRY AND CONVINCED MY DOCTOR TO BECOME REASONABLE.
NO MORE REEFER MADNESS FOR ME.
LIFE IS TOO IMPORTANT TO NOT HAVE FULL OWNERSHIP OVER YOUR MIND AND BODY.
FOR THOSES OF YOU STILL VICTIMIZED WITH PSYCHIATRY, JUST HANG ON! ;)
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So, has he stopped treatment altogether?
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So, has he stopped treatment altogether?
Yes my friend. We reached an agreement in order to stop the monthly abilify injections. Since i was no longer under a court order, there is nothing he could do to prevent me from taking this decision. So I'm willing to experiment living free of antipsychotics in hope it can decrease my chronic hypertension and to have a normal life again. This is a GREAT day! :)
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Whatever comes of it, I hope it works out for the best.
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It's been 6 days i stopped taking aripiprazole and so far my blood pressure dropped to 126/58mmHg. I propose that long-term aripiprazole therapy may induce essential hypertension by selectively blocking dopamine receptors.
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My psychiatrist asked me a interesting question during our last meeting that I wish to share. He asked: "How would I know that I could get in troubles by stopping my treatments?"
I responded that people around me would notice that right away.
I think that since psychiatry is not applying the precautionary principle in the diagnosis of a mental disease, it's far less risky to stop giving a neuroleptic to someone who is mentally stable to avoid complications later in its life than unconditionally exposing him/her to a potentially hazardous treatment.
So, there you have it. I'm going to prove that you can be cured from "schizophrenia", since nobody really understand what this "mental disorder" is about. I think that I know myself better than anyone. Nobody can prove that you're sick if you trust yourself that you're ok. This is about building self-confidence and getting yourself in control of your mental health.
tk