Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: LB7 on 16/12/2017 04:55:37

Title: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 16/12/2017 04:55:37

I think I don't need buoyancy, just a simple mechanical device, one spring, 4 axes, one motor:


d96.png (57.88 kB . 1129x404 - viewed 4360 times)

The spring don't lost any energy. The bottom don't need any energy to move to the right. The motor gives an energy.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: alancalverd on 16/12/2017 08:40:17

Usual response:

1. Build a prototype and show me that it generates more energy than it consumes, no matter how small the difference.

2. Explain how it can be scaled up.

I will fund its commercial development, sell the excess energy, and give you 50% of the profit from running it.

Do not reveal any details to anyone else.

Do not contact me until you have passed step 1.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 16/12/2017 08:57:29

Quote from: alancalverd on 16/12/2017 08:40:17

Usual response:

1. Build a prototype and show me that it generates more energy than it consumes, no matter how small the difference.

2. Explain how it can be scaled up.

I will fund its commercial development, sell the excess energy, and give you 50% of the profit from running it.

Do not reveal any details to anyone else.

Do not contact me until you have passed step 1.

I sent to Russia 18 months before to publish, since from 2008. I sent all my ideas, I'm not good in calculations so I just send the ideas (a lot of drawings with a lot of modifications). I don't have money, so I can't patent all my ideas nor build all the devices I have in my head.


Another image of the device:


d98.png (61.36 kB . 1166x394 - viewed 3868 times)

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 16/12/2017 14:02:08

Here, the trajectory (red color) of the center of the generator, and the green line is a straight line, so it is possible to use the straight line to cancel the torque from the generator :

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/12/2017 14:34:49

For extra points, show us how this mathematical proof of the impossibility of your idea is wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 16/12/2017 14:58:19

Bored chemist: there are hypothesis to use Noether's theorem. My device is very simple.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/12/2017 15:29:00

Quote from: LB7 on 16/12/2017 14:58:19

Bored chemist: there are hypothesis to use Noether's theorem. My device is very simple.

Yes, and it simply can't work.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 16/12/2017 16:08:04

Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/12/2017 15:29:00

Quote from: LB7 on 16/12/2017 14:58:19

Bored chemist: there are hypothesis to use Noether's theorem. My device is very simple.

Yes, and it simply can't work.

Without the green line and cancel the torque of the generator from that green line the sum of energy is 0 because the torque from the generator will go to the black arm, and I lost from the black arm what I won by the generator. With the green line it is easy to cancel a torque, just the torque, I don't touch of the force from the center of the generator (the force from the spring). So what, I need an energy to cancel a torque from a straight line ?

note: the green line is fixed to the ground, I can use it to cancel the torque from the generator

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/12/2017 18:31:14

Working out why you are wrong is your job, not mine.
However we know that, in fact, the system you propose won't work, so I'm not going to waste my time looking at it.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 16/12/2017 18:36:27

So, why waste your time to reply ? your logic is very bad.

I can just reduce the torque from the generator not cancel at 100%

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/12/2017 20:43:18

Quote from: LB7 on 16/12/2017 18:36:27

So, why waste your time to reply ?

To maintain the quality of the site.
I don't think you understand logic; if you did you wouldn't be claiming to do something that's known to be impossible.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 17/12/2017 07:11:28

Maybe like that:


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Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/12/2017 09:25:26

Which bit of "it is impossible" are you not understanding?

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 17/12/2017 09:50:04

Bored chemist, you know the history of science/technology ? do you know that scientists said IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HUMAN TO FLY ? the inventors or/and passionate people (a lot didn't know laws of fluids etc, and how many people called them crazy ?) build plane and helicopter ! Nowadays ? 4 years ago, scientists said IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GRAVE TRANSISTOR BELOW 5 nm or 7nm I didn't remember, MIT BUILT ONE 1nm (carbon), but IBM done it before not in carbon (engineers) ! scientists want to categorized the world with formulas, inventors want to find the solution, it is not the same. Hey, do you know that scientists said the wheel of water is the best to move in water, hey, imagine a undersea with a wheel of water :)


rfs6.png (440.88 kB . 764x422 - viewed 3870 times)

And so others examples in the history. So what, you believe that Noether prove it is not possible to create/destroy the energy ? I don't know what's wrong with Noether, and it is not my problem, it is for scientists, I'm looking for solutions. So, you help me for the devices or don't read me, don't reply.

Maybe rewrite Noether:

If device is not smart, then Noether is applied.
If device is smart, then Noether couldn't be applied.

:p


rd9.png (55.91 kB . 846x456 - viewed 3852 times)


se3.png (59.69 kB . 908x494 - viewed 3837 times)

or  :


dsi2.png (47.01 kB . 768x433 - viewed 3836 times)

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/12/2017 13:24:03

"Bored chemist, you know the history of science/technology ? do you know that scientists said IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HUMAN TO FLY ?"
Yes, I do.
And, if there had been a valid mathematical proof that it was impossible for humans to fly, then we wouldn't have aircraft.

Do you see the difference?

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 17/12/2017 13:32:02

I see the difference, but Noether proved what ? what is energy ? what is time ? what is space ? what is a force ? hum... how to say the ground is stable without know what is under the ground ?

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 17/12/2017 15:50:57

Hey ! no need the blue spheres:


fd63.png (40.32 kB . 791x462 - viewed 3789 times)

I can't use the friction, just use a spring between the disks. The length of the spring is constant because the disks don't rotate. But there are 2 positive torques on the arms. The disks have a BIG mass, and don't rotate at start, like that the spring don't have time to change its length.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/12/2017 16:28:29

Quote from: LB7 on 17/12/2017 13:32:02

I see the difference, but Noether proved what ?

That energy is conserved.
By contrast,you have proved.... nothing.

Title: Re: Break the law of conservation of energy with a simple mechanical device
Post by: LB7 on 17/12/2017 16:45:27

Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/12/2017 16:28:29

Quote from: LB7 on 17/12/2017 13:32:02

I see the difference, but Noether proved what ?

That energy is conserved.
By contrast,you have proved.... nothing.

I try
my last device #16  doesn't work ? I win the friction

device at final:


623.png (14.66 kB . 362x406 - viewed 3790 times)

If at start the disks don't rotate around themselve, and if they have high mass, the spring don't change its length.
The work on the arm1 + the work on the arm2 = 0
The work on the arm21 and arm11 is positive.

The spring applies a force on 2 disks:


gh9.png (21.9 kB . 418x507 - viewed 3754 times)