Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: Karen W. on 20/02/2018 23:59:10
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What is it, and is it safe. I do not have a clue about it and have never heard of it till yesterday. Do they fast by just avoiding liquids or both liquids and solid foods.? It does not seem safe to me, as he is talking about 4 to 5 days. Does anyone know anything about it, or its safety? Especially its safety and how it works in the body.. He was trying to tell me it forces your fat cells to turn to liquid??? I do not understand what he means by that. Perhaps one of you might know how that break down, happens, or if its bunk? Have I possibly misunderstood his explaination?
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I’d never heard of it until you mentioned it. It appears to be total no food no water.
Fat cells turning to liquid is a strange comment, many of the triglycerides in body fat are stored as droplets of oil within the fat cells that make up the fat tissue.
The problem with taking no water with food fasting is that the body continues to produce waste products and these will build up in the body and in particular stress the kidneys. It is possible to die within 5 days without water, 9 days seems to be a limit. While burning fat in the body does generate water (10kg fat produces 1.6kg water) it is not enough to flush out the waste.
Personally i think it sounds like another fad based on no research and just designed to sell books - diet books are among the top sellers.
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Thats what it seems to me too. Nothing about it seems kosher....It just seems unsafe... Thank you i want to investigate further because my friend will not listen without facts...so i would like to find out the real scoop on all their claims..any suggestions colin?
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I'm thinking this must be what he was talking about as far as turning fat to water..this quote is from:
Reference credit came from:
www.perfectketo.com/dry-fasting/
I AM NOT ADVERTISING THIS ONLY USING AS A REFERENCE AS TO WHERE THE INFO I AM POSTING BELOW CAME FROM.
"An intermittent dry fast can further intensify this cleansing process without dehydrating you.
Get this: Limited fluid intake pushes your body to burn more fat since fat can be used to produce metabolic water (water that your body makes internally).
For every 100 grams of fat, your body can make 107-110 grams of water, compared to 60g from carbs and just 42g of water from protein.
In other words, fat is the most efficient source of internal water.
Since you won’t be hydrating your body with external liquids, metabolic water is of extreme importance and your body will strive to make it from fat at a higher rate than it would on a water fast."
Are the statements here actually accurate..I am no Doctor so how that particular bodily funtion works in regard to the breakdown of fat into metabolic water is voodoo to me. Can someone explain, verify or otherwise explain this process if it does work like that?
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I do not think that this is safe.
I am not a medical doctor, and only know a bit of biochemistry, but I think the idea is bogus on its face, as are most "cleanses."
I am unaware of any evidence that the body will increase metabolic rate when deprived of water. While it is true that metabolism produces water chemically (look up metabolic water), it is also required for excreting waste produced from that same metabolism (so burning calories doesn't really change hydration levels).
Be very wary of extreme diets and cleanses, and anything promising immediate results, for example:
LOSE 5 lbs in 5 minutes with this one weird trick!!!
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Are the statements here actually accurate..I am no Doctor so how that particular bodily funtion works in regard to the breakdown of fat into metabolic water is voodoo to me. Can someone explain, verify or otherwise explain this process if it does work like that?
When fat is broken down in the body it creates a lot of energy, plus - as discovered by a team back in 2014 - 10kg of fat produces 8.4kg of CO2 which we breath out and 1.6kg of water. There is nothing special about this 'metabolic water' it's just water. but 1.6kg of water isn't enough to hydrate you considering you have to lose 10kg of fat to access it.
To me this is a dangerous fad, but it won't stop some poor souls being conned into trying it.
Fast if you need to, but drink lots.
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This whole thing screams "DANGEROUS NONSENSE!"
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10kg of fat produces 8.4kg of CO2 which we breath out and 1.6kg of water.
I think there is something off with this math... The combined mass of CO2 and H2O should be significantly greater than the mass of fat consumed, because it also consumes O2. I calculate that for each 10 kg of triglycerides, one should expect about 26.4 kg of CO2 and 10.8 kg H2O. This still means that one would need to burn nearly 1.9 kg of fat per day to get the recommended 2 kg of water per day! That does NOT sound healthy.
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Eating raw fruit and vegetables is the best way to diet. Since no cooking is involved it is more difficult for the body to digest the food efficiently. Cooking makes this process far easier. You would also benefit from the extra fibre on your diet.
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I think there is something off with this math...
You’re right. I need to back to the source.
Certainly whichever way you look at it this is an unhealthy way of dieting, even ignoring the ketones and urea concentration.
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anything
Lol...yeah...thats real quick way to loose weight...My friend Z really needs to read these comments..thanks ChiralSPO
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Are the statements here actually accurate..I am no Doctor so how that particular bodily funtion works in regard to the breakdown of fat into metabolic water is voodoo to me. Can someone explain, verify or otherwise explain this process if it does work like that?
When fat is broken down in the body it creates a lot of energy, plus - as discovered by a team back in 2014 - 10kg of fat produces 8.4kg of CO2 which we breath out and 1.6kg of water. There is nothing special about this 'metabolic water' it's just water. but 1.6kg of water isn't enough to hydrate you considering you have to lose 10kg of fat to access it.
To me this is a dangerous fad, but it won't stop some poor souls being conned into trying it.
Fast if you need to, but drink lots.
I agree and thanks for the break downs...i am passing this on to Z.
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I think there is something off with this math...
OK my fault, i made a note at the time in my ‘interesting physiology bits’ file but summary not detail.
Their calculation is that complete oxidation of 10 kg of fat requires 29 kg of inhaled oxygen producing 28 kg of CO2 and 11 kg of H2O all of which is excreted. What they have then done is subtract the input oxygen (a weight gain) to show the proportion just due to the lost 10kg of fat.
Main point is that most of the fat mass ends up being breathed out and produces much less water than most people would expect.
I’ve just looked up the article which you might find interesting as it uses an ‘average’ triglyceride.
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7257
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10kg of fat produces 8.4kg of CO2 which we breath out and 1.6kg of water.
I think there is something off with this math... The combined mass of CO2 and H2O should be significantly greater than the mass of fat consumed, because it also consumes O2. I calculate that for each 10 kg of triglycerides, one should expect about 26.4 kg of CO2 and 10.8 kg H2O. This still means that one would need to burn nearly 1.9 kg of fat per day to get the recommended 2 kg of water per day! That does NOT sound healthy.
Thank you for working with this and recalculating..you guys are the best..These figures should help me to help Z.
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I think there is something off with this math...
OK my fault, i made a note at the time in my ‘interesting physiology bits’ file but summary not detail.
Their calculation is that complete oxidation of 10 kg of fat requires 29 kg of inhaled oxygen producing 28 kg of CO2 and 11 kg of H2O all of which is excreted. What they have then done is subtract the input oxygen (a weight gain) to show the proportion just due to the lost 10kg of fat.
Main point is that most of the fat mass ends up being breathed out and produces much less water than most people would expect.
I’ve just looked up the article which you might find interesting as it uses an ‘average’ triglyceride.
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g7257
Thank you Colin. I will check out your link.
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I think there is something off with this math...
You’re right. I need to back to the source.
Certainly whichever way you look at it this is an unhealthy way of dieting, even ignoring the ketones and urea concentration.
Ok ...thats still sounding really scary to me.
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Eating raw fruit and vegetables is the best way to diet. Since no cooking is involved it is more difficult for the body to digest the food efficiently. Cooking makes this process far easier. You would also benefit from the extra fibre on your diet.
Thank you Jeffrey..I tend to agree with you.
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Tibetan Medicine say that the main cause of disease is ignorance.
That is true of doctors, politicians and anyone else who operates from a high ego. Eckhart Tolle says "awareness and the ego cannot co-exist". Just look at some history, and how many innovators and inventors were initially shouted down. The Catholic Church even incarcerated Galileo because he openly supported the theory postulated by Copernicus - that the Earth was not the centre of the Universe (and that it was NOT flat). Dr Barry Marshall and his fellow scientist believed that stomach ulcers were caused by a bacteria (Helicobacter pylori). They were often ridiculed. Marshall then decided to swallow a petri dish of infected material. He cured himself with an antibiotic treatment. In 2005 both men were awarded Nobel Prizes. There are many other examples like this in history.
I have been regularly dry fasting for nearly three years (up to 8 days) and I am not dead yet (age 67). My first attempt resolved some bad arthritic inflammation from a cartilage removal when I was only 20. I no longer need to have a knee replacement. The fast also eliminated the need for viagra!! My morning "woody" returned. And my hepatitis c diagnosis no longer existed. Does that sound like a silly therapy?
Research shows that renal function actually improves with five days of dry fasting (167%) - the opposite to what most "experts" suggest.
Dr Filonov is considered the world expert in dry fasting. He has been supervising these sorts of fast of up to 11 days - for over 20 years. He lists many more ailments that have been successfully treated - including fertility problems, endometriosis, STD's, radiation poisoning, etc. If I was a woman with fertility problems or endometriosis, I would certainly be investigating it. Filonov's book "Dry medical Fasting - Myths and Reality" is very educational.
Producing metabolic water during dry fasting makes sense chemically because the breakdown of fat would liberate hydrogen from carbon. If that was then combined with oxygen from breathing, it would/could produce water. During the initial days of dry fasting, I loose about 7 pounds (3kg) per day of weight. This would be mostly fat plus water. On my last longer dry fast (8 days), I was still urinating about 750 ml per day - and I stopped touching water during that period (ie. no bathing or shower). I had blood tests after the fast, and everything that I tested had improved - lipids, liver function, renal function, etc. Research shows that fasting up-regulates autophagy (cell self-digestion). Alzheimer's patients have disregulated autophagy. Therefore the fasting would provide some level of prevention against this disease (and others like cancer, heart disease, etc).
Dry fasting works different to water fasting. It does not produce body or breath odour like water fasting does - possibly because it is drawing moisture and air in through the skin (like a reverse sweat).
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Producing metabolic water during dry fasting makes sense chemically because the breakdown of fat would liberate hydrogen from carbon. If that was then combined with oxygen from breathing, it would/could produce water.
That doesn’t happen, it doesn’t produce water, the hydrogen is exhaled along with other gasses like CO2. This has been studied with radioactive tracers as described above.
The book is wrong and metabolic water is a myth.
The procedure is potentially life threatening and should only be attempted under medical supervision .
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Dry Fasting has existed for decades and decades ago. But, we are losing the ability to dry fast because we have vitamins, supplements, there are lots of fat exercises and fat programmes going on and the main thing is we believe that they will make us better. Dry Fasting can be divided into two bases mainly. On the basis of water content, it can be soft dry fast and hard dry fast.
Soft dry fasting will give you the permission to use water for brushing teeth and showering. On the other hand, hard dry fasting eliminates water content completely. Like, you cannot use water at all!
Note-According to some sources, if you are very new to dry fast, then a long period of a dry fast can even cause your body to death!
Dry Fasting is for those who are not malnourished, pregnant and are not suffering from any serious diseases or any eye-related diseases.
Dry Fasting Has Many Benefits So Know How You Can Perform Dry Fasting, Dry Fasting Benefits, and Dry Fasting Stages.
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Dry Fasting has existed for decades and decades ago. But, we are losing the ability to dry fast because we have vitamins, supplements, there are lots of fat exercises and fat programmes going on and the main thing is we believe that they will make us better. Dry Fasting can be divided into two bases mainly. On the basis of water content, it can be soft dry fast and hard dry fast.
Soft dry fasting will give you the permission to use water for brushing teeth and showering. On the other hand, hard dry fasting eliminates water content completely. Like, you cannot use water at all!
Note-According to some sources, if you are very new to dry fast, then a long period of a dry fast can even cause your body to death!
Dry Fasting is for those who are not malnourished, pregnant and are not suffering from any serious diseases or any eye-related diseases.
Dry Fasting Has Many Benefits So Know How You Can Perform Dry Fasting, Dry Fasting Benefits, and Dry Fasting Stages.
The proposed action is dangerous stupidity.