Naked Science Forum

Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: jeffreyH on 21/02/2018 22:36:44

Title: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: jeffreyH on 21/02/2018 22:36:44
We have vectors for velocity and momentum. Can there be such a thing as a kinetic energy vector?
Title: Re: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: wolfekeeper on 21/02/2018 23:27:02
You could doubtless define some vector operator, but what for? The point of the scalar we call 'energy' is that you can show that it's a conserved quantity in Newtonian mechanics.
Title: Re: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: alancalverd on 22/02/2018 00:17:09
dimensionally, velocity = LT-1 and momentum = MLT-1. M and T are scalars, so the vector properties of L are reflected in velocity and momentum. But we define energy as the scalar product ML2T-2.

Whilst a moving object, or an object in a gravitational field, has kinetic or potential energy that clearly derives from a vector quantity, that energy can be converted conservatively e.g. to heat which has no such connection, even though the conversion necessarily invokes conservation of the momentum vector of the system.
Title: Re: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: jeffreyH on 22/02/2018 07:58:23
I know that you have the dot product of velocity which gives a scalar. That said speed is a scalar and that is made into a vector. Why would vector kinetic energy work against energy conservation? The magnitude would still give the same value.
Title: Re: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: jeffreyH on 22/02/2018 08:02:20
Just an extra point. In this scenario the only valid vector operations would be addition an subtraction.
Title: Re: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: saspinski on 22/02/2018 18:07:05
In the 4-vectors of relativity, energy is a component of the momentum vector while not a vector by itself.
For a moving observer momentum changes and energy changes, but E² - P² keeps constant.
Title: Re: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: sceptic-eng on 02/03/2018 07:23:57
In a mechanical sense energy is scalar but when we are dealing with heat and electricity the energy is absorbed by a volume [ not a length or area] of matter or even magnetised space in the case of electromagnetic 3D light energy surely?
Title: Re: Does energy have to be a scalar?
Post by: Colin2B on 03/03/2018 09:49:55
In a mechanical sense energy is scalar but when we are dealing with heat and electricity the energy is absorbed by a volume [ not a length or area] of matter or even magnetised space in the case of electromagnetic 3D light energy surely?
Are you suggesting this makes it a non-scalar?