Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: Chris Neff on 29/04/2020 03:35:09
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I'm sorry if this is the wrong section to post this in. I'm not exactly sure where to actually put it, so feel free to move it if it is in the wrong section.
I have a kind of Morbid Question based on Suffocation, and the Science behind it's feelings. I'm sorry if this is too disturbing but I don't know where else to ask it. I tried posting it on other sites, but a bot removed it, and so I was never able to get it answered objectively. I hope I can have it finally answered here.
I've always had the worse Phobia to Suffocation, and it's my most feared way of dying ever. I see it as the most horrible experience ever. I've always had Asthma, or if not that, at least some sort of Respiratory Issues, so I know what it feels like.
But according to Science, and People Online, Suffocation involves no Pain. If no Pain is involved, then why is it so horrible to me, and produces PTSD in people who survive the experience? What am I feeling than? I KNOW that it's more than JUST Panic.
Why is it such a useful Torture Method for Interrogation, or Domestic Abuse if it involves no Pain?
People who survive Drowning Situations, and describe the experience are divided into Two Groups:
Is the people who say it's a Horrible Experience, and left them with PTSD, and a Suffocation Phobia.
Is the people who claim it was Peaceful for them.
What causes such different experiences for the Two of them? Isn't Suffocation a Primal/Primordial thing that is experienced Universally the same across all Humans?
Is there a difference between Drowning, being Smothered, or being Choked/Strangled? If so what are they in order from Worst, to Least, and why are they different, and not the same?
I also want to ask,
Why does breathing in Gasses such as Nitrogen put people to sleep peacefully with no Suffocation feelings like they would if a Plastic Bag was held over their head?
In Wrestling why is it that being Choked Out from the Carotid Arteries on the Side Of The Neck puts them to sleep peacefully in 5 seconds with no feelings of Suffocation, yet Choking Them Out from the Front takes minutes to knock them out, and is a HORRIFIC experience, and perhaps even PTSD producing?
A lot of people online also seem insensitive to Suffocation scenes in Movies, or to stories in real life, and a lot of them say things such as "There Is No Pain Involved In Suffocation, You Just Panic Until You Die".
Is Panic not considered Pain when it's in the form of that level of intensity, and Suffocation?
I always said that I would rather BURN than to Suffocate to death. If there's no Pain in it, then why would I prefer a PAINFUL method of Death over a NON-Painful method?
People also say that the Panic is produced from the fear of dying, but I don't know if I fully agree with that either for a couple of reasons:
If someone gave me the option to die quickly, and painlessly, or be suffocated until I pass out, but survive it, I would STILL choose DEATH, just so I wouldn't have to EVER experience suffocation.
If it's ALL JUST Panic, then theoretically, if a man was taken Hostage by a Serial Killer, and had a Gun held to his head, and KNEW 100% that the Psycho was going to kill him, the guy would Panic for sure, but it SHOULD technically not be any worse, or better, but in fact be the EXACT SAME as if the Psycho held a Plastic Bag over the man's head until he died. Yet it's NOT. The suffocation will STILL be WORSE than being shot in the head with a Gun, even though, both scenarios entail The Victim KNOWING that he will die.
So, with all of that said, if there is no Pain in Suffocation, then why is it such a HORRIBLE experience for me, and why is it such a HUGE Phobia for me, and my most feared way of dying ever? Am I just the weird one here, and am just exaggerating something that is in fact, nothing, and no big deal?
Ultimately, is Suffocation considered Peaceful, or Horrible, and Horrific?
I'm sorry for such a weird question, but I want Science to be able to answer this for me, because it's been bothering me for a while now, and I can't find any real Objective answers online, as everyone says something different. Thanks for any future replies.
Edit UpDate: So, is CO2 build up considered painful, or is it just a Panic thing?
The reason why I ask is because I refuse for the most part to accept my experiences as ONLY Panic. They feel WORSE than that.
Basically, people online have tried to say that drowning is a peaceful way to go, and when a City wanted to get rid of Feral Cats that were causing problems, they advocated the Neighbors to catch them, fill up a Trash Can full of Water, and then put the Cat inside, and seal it off with the Lid until they drowned to death. The City said this was a peaceful way to die. Is that true?
And finally, I was watching a YouTube Clip from a Video Game known as Silent Hill 2 where a man's wife was sick, and dying, and so to put her out of her Misery, he smothered her to death with a Pillow. This was unconsensually.
The clip depicts her screaming, and fighting, and it was a horrific scene.
One of the YouTube Comments said:
"There Is No Pain In Suffocation. You Just Panic Until You Die."
So, is being suffocated to death or until passing out PAINFUL?
Is the CO2 build up from not being able to breathe considered painful, or is it JUST Panic?
Because there's arguments online claiming that Suffocation is just a Panic thing, and not a Pain thing.
Ultimately, do you consider Suffocation in the CO2 Build Up way to be Horriblee, and Horrific?
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Suffocation induces oxygen deprivation and CO2 build up in the brain, which activates some neurotransmitter that the brain will interpret as pain, unless it is blocked by neurotransmitter inhibitor.
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In a pure nitrogen atmosphere, you can breathe out carbon dioxide, so it doesn't build up in your brain, and your body does not go into panic mode to breathe fresh air.
Ironically, your brain does not have an explicit oxygen sensor. In the absence of carbon dioxide buildup, the signs of oxygen starvation are more subtle, like fading vision (the retina of your eyes is one of the most oxygen-hungry tissues in your body).
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Nitrogen or helium hypoxia is quite pleasant and my choice for suicide. Excess CO2 induces panting and panic, but adequate dilution with an inert gas just slows the brain down.
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So, is CO2 build up considered painful, or is it just a Panic thing?
The reason why I ask is because I refuse for the most part to accept my experiences as ONLY Panic. They feel WORSE than that.
Basically, people online have tried to say that drowning is a peaceful way to go, and when a City wanted to get rid of Feral Cats that were causing problems, they advocated the Neighbors to catch them, fill up a Trash Can full of Water, and then put the Cat inside, and seal it off with the Lid until they drowned to death. The City said this was a peaceful way to die. Is that true?
And finally, I was watching a YouTube Clip from a Video Game known as Silent Hill 2 where a man's wife was sick, and dying, and so to put her out of her Misery, he smothered her to death with a Pillow. This was unconsensually.
The clip depicts her screaming, and fighting, and it was a horrific scene.
One of the YouTube Comments said:
"There Is No Pain In Suffocation. You Just Panic Until You Die."
So, is being suffocated to death or until passing out PAINFUL?
Is the CO2 build up from not being able to breathe considered painful, or is it JUST Panic?
Because there's arguments online claiming that Suffocation is just a Panic thing, and not a Pain thing.
Ultimately, do you consider Suffocation in the CO2 Build Up way to be Horriblee, and Horrific?
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Why does breathing in Gasses such as Nitrogen put people to sleep peacefully ...
Nitrogen alone is considered an inhumane way to euthanise dogs, see ...
the World Society for the Protection of Animals lists nitrogen inhalation as "not acceptable" for animal euthanasia because loss of consciousness is not instantaneous, and dogs euthanized by nitrogen gas have been observed convulsing and yelping after falling unconscious.
https://www.livescience.com/62037-oklahoma-executions-nitrogen.html
Nitrogen is cheap, effective, not hazardous to others, (e.g. not toxic nor explosive),
but apparently it's not as quick & painless as other methods of euthanasia.
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I think the details of the cause of suffocation matters and can make a difference how painful it would be.
This video shows what happens when you breath lower air pressure, such as in high altitude.
Testimonies from workers who survived confined space accident involving Nitrogen in atmospheric pressure tells similar story.
I have experienced some suffocations with different causes which I can share here. Hopefully they can be useful for whomever read these.
- drowning in fresh water. The pain was mainly felt when water entered my nose and got to olfactory nerves. Water with higher salinity would not generate as much pain, such as used in nasal spray.
- suffocating due to mishap while testing an SCBA. There was pain in my ears as I tried to inhale, which generated pressure difference with the surrounding air. You can try it by breathing in while pinching your nose.
- blockage of carotid when someone I carried on my back accidentally pressed them. I felt no pain at that moment, just felt dizzy and then lost balance and fell down. I felt a little bit tingling when the blockage was released. I guess that's what you'll feel if you got "rear naked choke"d.
Whereas the CO2 build up is explained in the article below.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/hypercapnia-symptoms-treatment-914862
Hypercapnia is excess carbon dioxide (CO2) build-up in your body. The condition, also described as hypercapnea, hypercarbia, or carbon dioxide retention, can cause effects such as headaches, dizziness, and fatigue, as well as serious complications such as seizures or loss of consciousness. Hypercapnia may develop as a complication of chronic lung diseases such as COPD, bronchiectasis, emphysema, interstitial lung disease, and cystic fibrosis, as well as some neurological and muscle diseases.
Your CO2 level can be measured with a blood sample, and you may also need other diagnostic tests to identify the cause of your hypercapnia. Typically, this problem requires intervention with medication and/or assistance with breathing, such as a breathing mask or a mechanical ventilator.
Symptoms
Often, hypercapnia does not cause obvious effects, and most people do not notice or complain of symptoms.
Common symptoms of hypercapnia, if they do occur, include:1
Fatigue
An inability to concentrate or think clearly
Headaches
Flushing
Dizziness
Dyspnea (shortness of breath)
Tachypnea (rapid breathing)
Increased blood pressure
Because these effects are so vague, you might not realize that they are caused by hypercapnia. Some people who have lung disease measure their own oxygen levels at home with a pulse oximeter, but this device cannot detect hypercapnia.
Your CO2 level may be too high even if your oxygen level is normal.
When you have a chronic respiratory disease, your CO2 level may be slightly elevated or may increase gradually over the course of years as your disease progresses. You can also experience sudden bouts of hypercapnia during exacerbations of a pulmonary condition.2
The level of CO2 in your blood can increase abruptly if you develop a severe lung infection, especially if you already have a chronic lung disease like chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).
Complications
Severe hypercapnia can cause noticeable and distressing effects. You may experience sudden respiratory failure, which can lead to a coma and may even be fatal.
Serious, urgent symptoms of hypercapnia can include:1
Paranoia, depression, and confusion
Muscle twitches
Seizures
Palpitations (a feeling that you are having a rapid heart rate)
Panic, or a feeling of impending doom
Dilation (widening) of superficial veins in the skin
Papilledema (swelling of the optic nerve)
Seek emergency medical care if you experience any of these.
It says that different people may get different symptoms. One of them is headache, which is a form of pain.
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Why does breathing in Gasses such as Nitrogen put people to sleep peacefully ...
Nitrogen alone is considered an inhumane way to euthanise dogs, see ...
the World Society for the Protection of Animals lists nitrogen inhalation as "not acceptable" for animal euthanasia because loss of consciousness is not instantaneous, and dogs euthanized by nitrogen gas have been observed convulsing and yelping after falling unconscious.
https://www.livescience.com/62037-oklahoma-executions-nitrogen.html
Nitrogen is cheap, effective, not hazardous to others, (e.g. not toxic nor explosive),
but apparently it's not as quick & painless as other methods of euthanasia.
I'd like to emphasize this excerpt from the same article
How nitrogen kills
Nitrogen is an inert gas — meaning it doesn't chemically react with other gases — and it isn't toxic. But breathing pure nitrogen is deadly. That's because the gas displaces oxygen in the lungs. Unconsciousness can occur within one or two breaths, according to the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board.
Nitrogen inhalation doesn't cause the same panicked feeling that suffocation does, because the person continues to exhale carbon dioxide. Rising carbon dioxide in the blood is what triggers the respiratory system to breath. These levels are also responsible for the burning and pain that happens when you hold your breath for too long. Because the carbon dioxide levels in the blood never rise with nitrogen inhalation, these symptoms don't occur.
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Warning: Long ass post and questions incoming. I hope that you will have time to read it all thoroughly and give me thorough answers on each part of my thread.
No, this has nothing to do with suicide BTW, it's about my phobia of suffocation.
I have a kind of morbid question based on suffocation and the science behind its feelings. I'm sorry if this is too disturbing but I don't know where else to ask it. I tried posting it on other sites, and forums but a bot or mods removed it and so I was never able to get it answered objectively. I hope I can have it finally answered here.
I've always had the very worst phobia of suffocation and it's my most feared way of dying ever. I see it as the most horrible experience ever. I've always had asthma or if not that, at least some sort of respiratory issues, so I know what it feels like.
But according to science and people online, and even in real life, suffocation involves no pain. If no pain is involved then why is it so horrible to me, and produces PTSD in people who survive the experience? What am I feeling then? I know that it's more than just panic. It has to be, right?
Why is it such a useful torture method for interrogation, or domestic abuse if it involves no pain?
Why were cops banned from doing air chokes for the longest time but were still allowed to do blood chokes?
People who survive drowning situations, and describe the experience are divided into two groups:
One group are the people who say it's a horrible experience, and left them with PTSD, and a suffocation phobia, or a drowning phobia or even a water phobia.
The other group are the people who claim it was peaceful for them.
What causes such different experiences for the two of them? Isn't suffocation a primal/primordial thing that is experienced universally the same across all humans? Shouldn't every single human being from the very beginning of time until the very end of time react exactly 100% the same to suffocation? Just like every single person from the very beginning of time until the very end of time would react 100% the same to burning to death.
Is there a difference between drowning, being smothered, or being choked/strangled? If so, what are they in order from worst to least, and why are they different and not the same?
I ask because everyone has their own idea of which version is more horrible but shouldn't all forms be 100% identical if you get rid of outside factors such as the rope or hands hurting your neck et cetera? For just the feeling of not being able to breathe itself, it would be the same across the board, no matter the method, right? Yet when everyone talks about how horrible suffocation is, they always seem like they bring up every other factor other than the actual suffocation itself.
Like an example would be, would drowning be any different than having something tightly covering your nose and mouth like with a plastic bag or someone's hand et cetera and to being strangled or choked? I'm asking only for the suffocation itself, not for how the item physically feels on your neck or anything like that.
I also want to ask,
Why does breathing in gasses such as Nitrogen put people to sleep peacefully with no suffocation feelings like they would if a plastic bag was held over their head?
In wrestling why is it that being choked out from the carotid arteries on the side of the neck puts them to sleep peacefully in 5 seconds with no feelings of suffocation whatsoever, yet choking them out from the front takes minutes to knock them out, and is a horrific experience, and perhaps even PTSD producing? Besides the physical pain of the wind pipe being compressed itself of course. What I'm really asking is, why don't people panic and gasp for breath during a blood choke like they do during an air choke?
Why are kids and people who play something known as the choking game able to do it without panicking and freaking out? None of them are even tied up. How can they just stand there and allow the person to suffocate them without their body going into automatic panic mode and trying to fight off the person who is depriving them of oxygen? Shouldn't they be gasping for air with their eyes wide in fright before they pass out? Most of them in the videos I've seen are laughing while it's happening and then they wake up still laughing afterwards. So, I just don't know.
The reason why I'm asking all of this is because it seems that most, if not a lot of people online and in real life are super insensitive to suffocation and think it's either no big deal or even peaceful et cetera. The sh1t pisses me off.
It doesn't make any sense to me. Almost everyone in the world universally agrees that being shot a bunch is a painful way to die. They almost all agree that being stabbed is a painful way to die. They almost all agree that burning to death is unimaginable agony. Almost everyone seems to agree on almost all other forms of death, and pain and, suffering and torture being a horrible way to die and inhumane, yet tons of people don't seem to see suffocation as horribly and as evilly as I do.
A lot of people online also seem insensitive to suffocation scenes in movies or to stories in real life, and a lot of them say things such as "There Is No Pain Involved In Suffocation, You Just Panic Until You Die".
Most of those scenes in movies usually involve someone sick or old and in pain being euthanized and someone puts them out of their misery by suffocating them to death with a pillow. Most of them are not consensual. Or even if it was, there should have been another way. Any way would be better. Even stabbing them to death over and over would be better than mechanical asphyxiation.
These scenes most notably are from movies such as One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest or Amour, or the video game SIlent HIll 2. They always enrage me to where I want to jump through the screen and suffocate the so-called mercy killer to death to show him what it's like, because most of them start panting and breathing deep during their struggle to suffocate the person since they are still fighting for air until they die.
I just can't imagine breathing yourself while being willing to deprive someone else of air and put them through that much panic and pain, even if it is for a short time.
I just imagine myself laying there, unable to protest or do anything to stop it, completely powerless and helpless suddenly being suffocated to death by someone who claims they love me and would never want to hurt me. Well that is the ultimate form of hurt.
But whenever I expect everyone to be equally as outraged as I am, they almost never are. Most of the comments to the video clips online are pretty much calling it an act of true love and justifying it, and even saying that they'd want to be put out that way if there was no other way. But I don't think they know what they are talking about because I would rather just lie there and slowly rot away until I die than be suffocated or even be a vegetable for the rest of my life than to be suffocated. Also, when I express my outrage in the comments, almost everyone acts like I'm overreacting. They act as if I'm the crazy one for believing that suffocation of any kind for any reason is never acceptable and is always evil period.
But anyway, back to my main questions, is panic not considered pain when it's in the form of that level of intensity, and suffocation? And if it isn't then could that level and version of panic be considered as worse than pain? That other feelings and panic are worse than feeling pain?
I always said that I would rather burn than to suffocate to death. If there's no pain in it, then why would I prefer an excruciatingly painful method of death over a so-called non painful method?
People also say that the panic is produced from the fear of dying itself, but I don't know if I fully agree with that either for a couple of reasons:
If someone gave me the option to die quickly and painlessly, or be suffocated until I pass out but survive it, I would still choose death, just so I wouldn't have to ever experience suffocation. So it can't be a fear of death because death is not what bothers me. It's the experience itself leading up to the death or to the pass out.
The other question too would be that if it's just panic and fear of death, then why do people in the BDSM community who consent to that kind of stuff still freak out and panic? They have to be tied up or else their bodies would go into automatic panic mode and literally try to rip the eyeballs out of the person who is suffocating them even though they consented to it and sexually get off on it.
Funny thing is, people react to pain differently when they enjoy it and consent to it than a person who is vanilla and doesn't like pain if they receive it against their will. Even if the BDSM person who consented to it still cried and screamed, they could still stand there and take it.
Yet almost everyone who is into BDSM and sexually aroused by suffocation and fully consents to it reacts to it almost identically to an actual victim who is having it be forced on them against their will if the BDSM person takes it far enough. The panic is practically the same. The only difference is that the BDSM person will obviously react differently when it's over and not end up with PTSD unlike the victim who survives the non consensual encounter. Why is that?
If it's all just panic and the fear of death, then theoretically, if a man was taken hostage by a serial killer, and had a gun held to his head, and knew 100% that the psycho was going to kill him, the guy would panic for sure, but it should technically not be any worse or better, but in fact be the exact same as if the psycho held a plastic bag over the man's head until he died. Yet it's not, at least as far as I know anyway. The suffocation will still be worse than being shot in the head with a gun, even though both scenarios entail the victim knowing that he will die. So it couldn't be just panic and fear of death because both entail knowing 100% for sure that they are going to die beforehand, especially if it's with teasing and taunting from the psycho, yet I am 95% confident that the suffocation will still produce panic and pain worse than any other form of death.
So, with all of that said, if there is no pain in suffocation, then why is it such a horrible experience for me, and why is it such a huge phobia for me, and my most feared way of dying ever? Am I just the weird one here, and am just exaggerating something that is in fact, nothing, and no big deal? Am I just being biased and not looking at reality objectively?
Ultimately, is suffocation considered peaceful, or is it horrible, and horrific? And if it's the latter, then is it the very worst form of death you can experience? I've always believed that there are very few, if any, things in life worse than the feeling of not being able to breathe. Yet everyone I tell that to online or real life thinks I'm just exaggerating, and being a drama queen and being melodramatic. Some even go so far as to call my life coddled, sheltered and protected because of it. Or first world problems et cetera.
I'm sorry for such a weird question, but I want science to be able to answer this for me, because it's been bothering me for a while now, and I can't find any real objective answers online, as everyone says something different. Thanks for any future replies.
Basically, what triggered me into making this long ass question is that I have been arguing with people all over the internet for months who think suffocation is not that big of a deal and act like I'm just insane.
A lot of them are into BJJ, grappling, wrestling and other combat sports et cetera.
A lot of them even try to claim that people exaggerate the dangers of choking and suffocation and claim it's safe so long as you let go at the right time.
But to me, the idea of ever suffocating or air choking someone all the way until they pass out is the very height of evil and anyone willing to do something so barbaric deserves to burn to death in a fire while being suffocated at the same time.
To me, anyone who doesn't feel as strongly about suffocation as I do has no soul. Is that too harsh?
Like there's not a single case in history where suffocation is ever justified. Or at least it isn't anymore in 2021.
I feel that these wrestling places should ban air chokes of all kinds and make them an illegal move and only allow blood chokes.
I also feel that people should never be doing air chokes in real life fighting either since the blood choke is the humane option and superior in every way.
Of course, none of those objections and opposition applies to people who fully consent to it such as people into BDSM, but personally, I still think they're a bunch of freaks and weirdos who need mental help, but that's just me.
A lot of people claim that it's the buildup of CO2 that causes the suffocation feeling and not the actual depletion of oxygen itself. So, is CO2 buildup considered painful, or is it just a panic thing?
The reason why I ask is because I refuse for the most part to accept my experiences as only panic. They feel worse than that.
Basically, people online have tried to say that drowning is a peaceful way to go, and when a city wanted to get rid of feral cats that were causing problems, they advocated the neighbors to catch them, fill up a trash can full of water, and then put the cat inside, and seal it off with the lid until they drowned to death. The city said this was a peaceful way to die. But is it though? I seriously doubt that.
And finally, I was watching a YouTube clip from a video game known as Silent Hill 2 where a man's wife was sick, and dying, and so to put her out of her Misery, he smothered her to death with a Pillow. This was nonconsensually.
The clip depicts her screaming, and fighting, and it was a horrific scene.
One of the YouTube Comments said:
"There Is No Pain In Suffocation. You Just Panic Until You Die."
So, is being suffocated to death or until passing out painful or is it just panic, or is panic worse than pain when it's suffocation specifically?
Is the CO2 build up from not being able to breathe considered painful, or is it just panic?
Because there's arguments online claiming that suffocation is just a panic thing, and not a pain thing.
Ultimately, do you consider suffocation in the CO2 build up way to be horrible, and horrific?
I don't know. I just get super triggered and feel personally attacked whenever I see anything online describing suffocation as anything other than the top evil and the worst way to die since most of them act like it's not even painful or suffering and it's like the best way to die or at least a peaceful way to die. I get the urge to fight them all and start arguing incessantly with them. It makes me feel as if I'm delusional and the crazy one for feeling as strongly as I do about it. As if my aversions to it are irrational.
I'm also claustrophobic and wear loose clothing, and will never ever wear anything on my neck, as in necklaces, scarfs, turtle necks, or even that light tissue ring thing barbers put around your neck to keep the hair from getting on you. I always wedge a finger in between the front part to keep it from touching my neck. I also won't allow anyone to touch my neck either in any way, shape or form.
When I wear masks for Covid, I always squish them up so they always stay above my chin level because if they touch under the jaw line level under my chin, I also react the same way as if it's my neck since they're both connected to each other.
I also can't hold my breath for any more than 10 seconds or less even though I'm healthy and never smoked and am thin. As soon as I hold my breath, within 2 seconds, I immediately feel air hunger and pressure on my chest and lungs.
They claim holding your breath is supposed to be relaxing, but it just stresses me out and makes my heart race and pound.
I'm also a mouth breather and cannot breathe exclusively through my nose even though it is unclogged and clear because I will freak out and panic because I feel constant air hunger if I cannot breathe through both my nose and mouth at all times.
It's even bad enough so when I eat, everyone gets annoyed by me smacking my lips because I chew with my mouth open because when I try to chew with my mouth closed, I instantly feel like I can't breathe and am suffocating or choking.
So, my thread ultimately boils down to 3 questions.
Is suffocation, as in the feeling of being unable to breathe itself considered painful, horrible and horrific?
Is suffocation the worst way to die?
Who is in the right and who is in the wrong with my arguments and fights with everyone else? Me, or them? Is science on my side or theirs? Or are the science findings themselves wrong too?
Sorry for such a long ass thread and questions, but I just want closure on these answers once and for all. So I hope that you will have time to read it all thoroughly and give me thorough answers on each part of my thread.
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You need to distinguish between suffocation (artificial prevention of respiration) and hypoxia.
We have evolved to stay alive, and thus have built-in reflexes that rebel against insults such as drowning or restricted airflow. The conscious response is obviously to fight, and this generates adrenalin. The unconscious reflex is triggered by excess carbon dioxide in the blood. Both responses are necessarily very quick and involve extreme muscular stimulation, indistinguishable from panic, and if they are not immediately successful, true panic is the obvious progression.
We have not evolved a response to a very unnatural phenomenon: gradual reduction of blood oxygen with no increase of CO2. This occurs in altitude hypoxia (very few of us live above 10,000 ft altitude and those who do become adapted by producing more red blood cells) and nitrogen suffocation, a very modern phenomenon encountered far too often by MRI service engineers, where liquid nitrogen boils off and displaces ordinary air in an enclosed space. The onset of hypoxia is actually accompanied by a feeling of wellbeing or slight drunkenness, which makes it dangerous by secondary effect - crashing a plane or falling off a mountain. It is my chosen suicide, after hypothermia (I'd rather die doing something outdoors, and I only own 25% of my airplane!). There is a classic film of a pig choosing nitrogen hypoxia rather than food.
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Did you skim it or read every word in detail. Just curious.
So is it only panic, or pain though? Because I've always seen suffocation as being super painful but everyone acts like I'm not using the right word or that I'm being over dramatic and that suffocation is not that bad and even peaceful et cetera.
So are all of those people just being insensitive and being idiots and not knowing that they are talking about?
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Because I've always seen suffocation as being super painful but everyone acts like I'm not using the right word or that I'm being over dramatic and that suffocation is not that bad and even peaceful et cetera.
That seems correct. I think suffocation would beat the hell out of a lot of other ways to go.
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Suffocation certainly isn't peaceful (all animals struggle against it) , inert gas or altitude hypoxia is. "Pain" is usually associated with stimulation of peripheral nerves, but the response to excess blood CO2 operates through a different pathway so a pedant like me wouldn't use the word (as I didn't in my first response).
It was a bit of a skim since I have no interest in computer games or the details of fictional films - real life is far too interesting to waste! - but the subject has been aired and discussed many times.
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Because I've always seen suffocation as being super painful but everyone acts like I'm not using the right word or that I'm being over dramatic and that suffocation is not that bad and even peaceful et cetera.
That seems correct. I think suffocation would beat the hell out of a lot of other ways to go.
What seems correct? That I'm being over dramatic and that suffocation is not painful and is peaceful? Why is it over dramatic?
Because I'd rather burn to death than suffocate. The feeling of not being able to breathe for minutes on end is worse than any other thing in life.
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Suffocation certainly isn't peaceful (all animals struggle against it) , inert gas or altitude hypoxia is. "Pain" is usually associated with stimulation of peripheral nerves, but the response to excess blood CO2 operates through a different pathway so a pedant like me wouldn't use the word (as I didn't in my first response).
It was a bit of a skim since I have no interest in computer games or the details of fictional films - real life is far too interesting to waste! - but the subject has been aired and discussed many times.
So could it be said that the feeling of suffocation and primal/primordial panic like that is worse than the feeling of pain?
That there's other horrible experiences that are worse than pain that don't technically involve pain?
Because I'd honestly rather burn to death than be suffocated to death. The feeling of not being able to breathe for minutes on life is the worst thing in life.
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Because I'd honestly rather burn to death than be suffocated to death.
It’s unlikely the 2 are mutually exclusive. A fire consumes oxygen and most victims of house fires die of suffocation and smoke inhalation poisons before the fire reaches them.
By the way, why have you posted this same question which you previously posted using a different name??? https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=79431.0
If you had extra questions you should have added them to the previous post.
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That's not actually me. I just took a lot of his words and put them in my own thread since I'm not very good at "starting" a thread and then I added all of my own questions into the mix. I guess inspiration?
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That's not actually me. I just took a lot of his words and put them in my own thread since I'm not very good at "starting" a thread and then I added all of my own questions into the mix. I guess inspiration?
Why are you lying to us?
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I don't know. I just get super triggered and feel personally attacked whenever I see anything online describing suffocation as anything other than the top evil and the worst way to die since most of them act like it's not even painful or suffering and it's like the best way to die or at least a peaceful way to die. I get the urge to fight them all and start arguing incessantly with them. It makes me feel as if I'm delusional and the crazy one for feeling as strongly as I do about it. As if my aversions to it are irrational.
Look here is the deal IMO. You have a phobia about suffocation. In your mind you have decided for whatever reason that suffocation is the absolute worst way to die and anything related to that (touching your neck, wearing a mask, etc.) is going to trigger an uneasy feeling. You are not going to convince us it is the worst way to die and we are not going to convince you it isn't. See, it really doesn't matter to us, you write a 1000 word essay on suffocation because it is a big deal to you, we don't care and don't think about it. You have two main choices as I see it, you can deal with it; you know like don't get a job wear you have to wear a tie and don't go on the internet to research about people dying by suffocation. Or you can give in totally to our phobia; writing about the horror of suffocation on forums, reading about people dying by suffocation and wringing your hands while annoying your friends and family about suffocation. You have a phobia about suffocation, many, maybe most people have a phobia, so you should accept it and move on. If you can't then seek professional help to work through it, all your doing here is creating triggers to work yourself up and make yourself feel uncomfortable and freaked out.
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Hello Christopher.
Welcome to TNS, or should i say Welcome Back!
(Honestly, i do not care...hence let's cut to the chase.)
First Off, there is Nothing Concensual about the act/process of Strangulating Another Individual.
If a Husband relieves his Wife struggling thru Chronic Pain, once the Wife is gone, who would bear witness in a Court of Law that the Wife consented & begged for it?
Even if they are able to get a few witnesses onboard, the Court would Charge all Witnesses, Guilty of abatement, it will go down in the books of Law as a planned Murder.
If an Individual decides to strangulate themselves, they might still be tried & found Guilty in a Law Court.
Rules pertaining to Suicide vary in accordance to religious, cultural & traditional beliefs worldwide.
Some places it is Unlawful & a Sin.
Others only a Sin.
& Others where it just does not matter.
Although, We can both agree on the fact that once the individual is dead, the consequences of their actions would hardly matter to them... considering the fact that They are DeaD!
Quite possibly, this is the easiest way for an individual to Destroy the Whole Universe.
Once Life Ends, it's game over.
What difference would it make if You did not exist anymore in the universe...or the universe did not exist anymore in your perception.
Wild Guesses ahead :
Death by Hanging perhaps breaks or snaps the bones of the spine.
Search for " Hangman's Fracture " n read a bit on it.
Drowning would not be able to avoid the natural urge to breathe or ventilate.
Salty water going into the lungs might bring about an unpleasant burning sensation.
Cannot say the same for mineral water.
Fire burn victims are at times seen or heard to be begging for death.
3rd degree or 4th degree or whatever percentages of burns thereof.
Hell in certain cultures is depicted of Skin burning in fire, & next day skin growing back so that again it burns.
Suggesting Extreme Pain For end of eternity.
Sexual asphyxia or Asphyxiophilia, whichever way you see it morally...
If not done Correctly or there is an accidental equipment malfunction, can result in autoerotic death.
Perhaps you have a long neck, more surface area would mean more nerves, hence alot of touch sensitivity.
Relax! You ain't the Only one feeling that way, there are Others too.
Sometimes We find ourselves arguing with Others out of complete disbelief & disliking to their point of view.
Strangulation may or may not be Cruel.
It depends upon the circumstances.
Just a couple of months ago, I would have Strongly Objected to Alan's point of view.
Or even gone so far as to providing a toll free number.
& Raising ethical & moral concerns.
Perhaps, I've grown Wiser since then, or dumber...but certainly not dumb enough not to care.
Ps - You can Never tell what an individual is suffering more, the fear of being mortal, or life itself.
(I donno if " Victor's Last Class " is still available on Utube or not, have a look if you wish)
& TC!
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Being nailed to a cross by the Romans was a torture which cause the victim to die of suffocation after 8 hours, alternating between suffocation from the arms raised and breathing from standing up.
May be this can be argued that suffocation is worse than being nailed to the cross?
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Being nailed to a cross by the Romans was a torture which cause the victim to die of suffocation after 8 hours, alternating between suffocation from the arms raised and breathing from standing up.
May be this can be argued that suffocation is worse than being nailed to the cross?
In what way that it's worse? Is it more painful? or induce pain in longer duration?
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nitrogen suffocation, a very modern phenomenon encountered far too often by MRI service engineers
Do they not carry oxygen monitors? AFAIK sewer workers at risk of the atmosphere being oxygen depleted carry monitors because they can easily pass out without ever realising there's a problem.
I think suffocation would beat the hell out of a lot of other ways to go.
I've had my heart stopped (deliberately with drugs) on a few occasions. That was no big deal, so it occurs that it might still not be if it continued until I lose consciousness.
What we need is a volunteer to try several methods of suicide, and tell us which was worst.
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... phenomenon encountered far too often...
They generally only encounter it once- at least on a first-person basis.
Granted, once is too often.
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"Why is suffocation horrible experience if it supposedly involves no pain in it?"
Fear.
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I'm sorry if this is the wrong section to post this in. I'm not exactly sure where to actually put it, so feel free to move it if it is in the wrong section.
man, this is a long ass post
Warning: Long ass post and questions incoming.
just what i was thinking
Did you skim it or read every word in detail.
Skirt it for content and repetition.
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Being nailed to a cross by the Romans was a torture which cause the victim to die of suffocation after 8 hours, alternating between suffocation from the arms raised and breathing from standing up.
May be this can be argued that suffocation is worse than being nailed to the cross?
In what way that it's worse? Is it more painful? or induce pain in longer duration?
Needless to say. Someone nailed to a cross would want a quick death. So one would try to endure the position of having the arms stretched hence extra painful together with the inability to breath in that position.
It would be an act of great suffering also to use the legs to push the body up to breath.
The choice is to suffer both can't breath + arms extended, or all three can't breath, arms extended + pain of pushing on leg.
So arguably, the can't breath is the motivator to choose to push on the legs, and hence can't breath is the greater suffering.