Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => The Environment => Topic started by: acsinuk on 01/11/2020 16:24:52
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With another lockdown imminent it is time to reduce the train and bus schedules to a Sunday reduced service only. Running buses and trains less than a quarter full should be discouraged or even banned as it is wasteful of energy and causes unnecessary pollution.
Now, we are all masked up even rushhour trains should be reduced in length by 50% and others by 75%.
Double decker buses can be mothballed and mini buses used to feed single coach buses on more crowded routes.
Covid19 has revolutionised our needs, but can produce a real environmental bonus rather than a hazard.
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,,,should be discouraged or even banned as it is wasteful of energy
Everything we do is a waste of energy.
You can't repeal the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
Now, we are all masked up...
... we realise that masks aren't perfect.
For those who were wondering a few months ago when I talked about the "superman effect"; this is what I meant.
People think " I have a mask: I am invincible!".
It's a bit of cloth, not a space suit.
It's not that rebuilding public transport is a bad idea, it's just that, right at the moment, we are busy.
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A surgical mask is about 30 - 50% efficient at reducing inhaled aerosol if worn properly. So you might take a chance sitting on a half-empty train if you are wearing a good mask for the entire journey. Reducing the number of seats would simply bring the risk factor back to where it was if you didn't wear a mask.
Don't rely on everyone else wearing masks. Most of them aren't effective and most of the rest aren't worn properly.
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But what advantage is it to run an empty train or bus when recent travel numbers are predictable and the security camera can confirm how many people are needing to travel. Save the fuel and do not pollute the environment.
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the security camera can confirm how many people are needing to travel.
If you thought through your posts you would avoid the embarrassment of having the mistakes pointed out.
So, for example, most busses run on a fixed route- typically, it takes an hour to run round the route.
A man with a security camera at two in the afternoon can not tell the driver not to set out at six in the morning.
But what advantage is it to run an empty train or bus
There isn't one- obviously.
But the bus is run "just in case" there is someone who is depending on it to get to the dentist or whatever.
So asking why they run empty busses is asking the wrong question.
The right question is "why do they run busses to a timetable"
And the answer is "because they are much less useful if you don't.
The timetable means that, from time to time, you get empty busses.
Yes, it's a waste of fuel etc.
But, as you seem not to have understood, so is everything else we do.
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Nobody, other than firefighters and fishermen, "needs" to travel. Many of us choose not to live over the shop, but even the importance of shops is becoming questionable.
It is quite likely that public transport, whether commuter trains or longhaul flights, will never recover to its previous manic activity levels, and scheduled trains and flights will become economically unviable, being replaced by chartered taxi services. But whilst there is as hope of economic normality returning, scheduled trains must run in order to meet their franchise conditions.
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Nobody, other than firefighters and fishermen, "needs" to travel.
to get to the dentist or whatever
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It's arguable that the need to visit a dentist (and I speak with authority, having just today completed a course of treatment that began with a tooth that broke on the first day of lockdown) is so rare that a free taxi service might cost the taxpayer less than a subsidised bus when society readjusts.
As acsin has pointed out, an imprecation (one could hardly call it a law, since it can't be enforced without upsetting the Dominic Cummings School of Ophthalmology) to make only essential journeys, has reduced public transport usage to a token, so a considerable rethink may be on the cards.
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I presume that you get your haircut by post and never need to visit a doctor or a friend.
Seriously, you might as well accept that Nobody, other than firefighters and fishermen, "needs" to travel.
is a bit daft.
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Not daft at all. We need mini buses not double-deckers. Small 2 carriage lightweight tube trains. Minimise, Economise and protect our environment please.
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Not daft at all.
Yes it is.
We need mini buses not double-deckers.
maybe, but that wasn't the matter under discussion, was it?
The idea that "Nobody, other than firefighters and fishermen, "needs" to travel." is still daft.
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Apart from said professions, I can't think of anyone else who necessarily lives more than walking or cycling distance from his place of work. Even astronauts get married quarters at the training base until they are sent to live in the laboratory.
Haven't had a haircut since March. On The Boss's instructions I've given up the military fuzz and have now reached Einstein en route to Willie Nelson. She is quite happy with Godiva.
Most of my friends are musicians. We can't rehearse together so the pianist sends round a recording of the piano score and we add our own lines, which all end up in a studio mix without having to breathe over each other in a real studio. Miss the gigs, though.
The local doctor doesn't want anyone in his surgery except for minor ops and injections - consultation is by Zoom, no waiting.
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so the pianist sends round a recording of the piano score
Does he take the piano round to the tuner's place for tuning?
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Here in Australia, we are gradually opening up borders after the virus escaped from quarantine hotels.
- Like my colleagues, I've worked at home since March; some small social gatherings are planned for December for my work team
- My home office now sports a large 4k curved monitor, a gift for Father's Day. We don't have anything like that in the office!
- I have had some work done by my local dentist over the past month, with no delays due to pandemics
- I took my first trip on public transport last weekend, to see a couple of exhibitions in the city. Signs on the doors recommended wearing masks, but only about 20% of passengers were wearing them. The train was mostly empty on the weekend, but I understand a similar ratio of masks occurs during peak hour.
- I have rebooked a vacation in an adjacent state (1,000km away). This was originally booked for April 2020, deferred to September 2020, now January 2021. In between, the airline went bankrupt, and the new owners are pulling various stunts to stop you using the credit you received when the earlier flight was cancelled. Whether the vacation finally happens in January is like the flip of a coin.
- I guess it helps that we are now entering the warmer months; I expect social distancing on beaches will be enforced, with requests to make it a short visit, and beach closures when they get full.
Meanwhile, the Pakistani cricket team is in quarantine in New Zealand. They have been threatened with expulsion after ignoring quarantine restrictions, and now half of the team have tested positive...
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so the pianist sends round a recording of the piano score
Does he take the piano round to the tuner's place for tuning?
He uses an electronic keyboard so there's no argument about tuning. When he says A = 440, you'd better believe it. The guy who tunes my mechanical piano also works for the Albert Hall, so the band are (or were) pretty happy to play in my shed a couple of times a year when he has just visited, but you don't have to be on the scene for very long to realise that even the best Steinway in a church or community center is not to be trusted.
When I saw one of the first adverts in a shop window for a "digital piano" some years back I asked the obvious question. My wife said "presumably, one you play with your fingers."
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The guy who tunes my mechanical piano also works for the Albert Hall,
And... does he live there or are you getting to grips with the idea that
Nobody, other than firefighters and fishermen, "needs" to travel.
is daft?
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there's no argument about tuning
I'm willing to bet that there is.
It's a law of physics that n musicians implies at least n+1 opinions.
You may well near enough agree about 440 Hz
But is a third above it a rational number or something involving the twelfth root of two?
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The guy who tunes my mechanical piano also works for the Albert Hall,
And... does he live there
Other piano tuners live in the area, if only because the Royal College of Music is just round the corner. And there's no great shortage of pianos in Cambridge. What's needed is a bit of collaboration rather than competition.
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But is a third above it a rational number or something involving the twelfth root of two?
The joy of a fretless bass is I really don't need to know! The guitar is always accurate but always wrong (like the Hammond organ, but differently wrong) whilst fretless strings can be right-ish all the time.
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So, you are happy to deliver a piano across Cambridge for tuning, in spite of the fact that the return journey will detune it, rather than accept that, maybe, piano tuners need to go to their place of work.
Well... it's a view point.
I look forward to further discussion regarding professional mountaineers.
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there's no argument about tuning
I'm willing to bet that there is ...
(https://img.youtube.com/vi/-penQWPHJzI/0.jpg) (https://youtu.be/-penQWPHJzI?t=70)
https://youtu.be/-penQWPHJzI?t=70 (https://youtu.be/-penQWPHJzI?t=70)
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So, you are happy to deliver a piano across Cambridge for tuning, in spite of the fact that the return journey will detune it, rather than accept that, maybe, piano tuners need to go to their place of work.
I refer the hon gentto the statement I made a few posts above:
Apart from said professions, I can't think of anyone else who necessarily lives more than walking or cycling distance from his place of work.
I look forward to further discussion regarding professional mountaineers.
See above. I don't recall Everest sherpas taking the train to work every day. If I wanted to appoint a mountain guide, my first choice would be someone who lives close enough to the mountain to be familiar with its microclimate and seasonal vegetation 24/7/365. Any fool can press on regardless but an expert knows when not to (I was given that nugget of wisdom by a surgeon, who did indeed cycle to work).
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Squiggly frets? The sound of a hangover!
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So, you are happy to deliver a piano across Cambridge for tuning, in spite of the fact that the return journey will detune it, rather than accept that, maybe, piano tuners need to go to their place of work.
I refer the hon gentto the statement I made a few posts above:
Apart from said professions, I can't think of anyone else who necessarily lives more than walking or cycling distance from his place of work.
I look forward to further discussion regarding professional mountaineers.
See above. I don't recall Everest sherpas taking the train to work every day. If I wanted to appoint a mountain guide, my first choice would be someone who lives close enough to the mountain to be familiar with its microclimate and seasonal vegetation 24/7/365. Any fool can press on regardless but an expert knows when not to (I was given that nugget of wisdom by a surgeon, who did indeed cycle to work).
So, In Alan World, Sir Chris Bonington should have worked from home... well, it's an idea...
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We are digressing again. We must be more environmentally friendly next year by admitting that most people will be working from home and not using public transport necessarily on a daily rush hour basis.
We need mini buses not double-deckers. Small 2 carriage lightweight tube trains. Minimise, Economise and protect our environment please.
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The energy required to make a road vehicle is about the same as it will consume in 5 years' use, so if you replace 9,000 London double deckers, plus all those in Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Edinburgh.....with new buses, you will contribute massively to global meltdown, mass starvation, or whatever gets folk excited this week.
The energy required to move a tube train is principally determined by its cross-sectional area. Length only contributes significantly to drag above about 100 mph in open air and 40 mph in a tunnel. London trains don't go that fast.
If you halve the height of a bus or the length of a train you will double the passenger density and thus increase the infection rate by a factor of 4.
Lightweight commuter trains (Sprinters) have been a bit of a disaster and are gradually being replaced by something more comfortable and aerodynamic, but replacing steel with aluminum increases the energy cost of construction by a factor of 4.
Sometimes the best way to protect the environment (an in this case, public health) is to do nothing.
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So, In Alan World, Sir Chris Bonington should have worked from home... well, it's an idea...
You said guide, not expedition leader. I'm sure that a sensible chap like CB always consults the locals before setting off.
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You said guide,
No
I said mountaineer
I look forward to further discussion regarding professional mountaineers.
You tried to make a straw man point by saying "guide".
If I wanted to appoint a mountain guide,
According to the wiki page about him, Bonnington has earned a living throughout his life, solely by climbing big rocks and writing about it.
In the real world, he couldn't have done that by staying at home.
So could you at least accept that there are more than 2 entries on the list of jobs where you have to go to the work, rather than vice versa?
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The energy required to make a road vehicle is about the same as it will consume in 5 years' use, so if you replace 9,000 London double deckers, plus all those in Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow, Edinburgh.....with new buses, you will contribute massively to global meltdown, mass starvation, or whatever gets folk excited this week.
But that use of energy and materials will be offset because fewer people will buy cars ... that's a large part of the point.
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What has happened so far was an early surge in the used car market, with people buying second cars for shopping, followed by a run on camper vans as preferable to hotels for summer breaks, then a slowdown in new car sales because folk are travellng less on business.
I'd rather travel on a 60-seat double-deck bus with 10 other passengers spread out, as the local park'n'ride service has operated since March, than with the same random bunch of citizens (there aren't many places in the world where at least one of them has a Nobel, FRS or Fields medal, but the virus isn't fussy) crammed into a 12-seat minibus.
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Seriously though, we need to minimise the amount of fuel we use whilst moving around. In the 1960's Italy claimed that scooters were a cheaper way of getting from A to B than having to repair the wear on your shoes.
Taking this example to the limit, say you want to do a 6 hour job 80 miles away.. Trains fare cost about £35 off peak.
Cost on scooter at 80mpg is 10 litres of fuel £ 12.50. If you walked there the cost of 3 overnight stays would have to be included but if you went by horse you could probable save one night B&B but feeding the horse could be trying. Same will apply if you pedal bike it. So Vespa wins. Even better, why not go on an electric scooter??
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Horse is not a good idea. A horse standing in a field and doing no work, produces as much carbon dioxide in a year as a small car travelling 8000 miles. The poo makes great garden fertiliser, though.
Scooter is great unless you want to carry your tools and materials to the job.
I would really like a tuk-tuk, if I can find a road-legal version. In my youth a lot of deliveries were done by motor tricycle, essentially an old military motorbike with a cabin. Invented here, and now the basic taxi and workman's van throughout Asia. Time for a revival.
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I think we all agree that small low range electric city cars with a motorway hybrid option are the most environmentally friendly way for personal travel if reasonably priced public transport is not convenient option.
SUV's are not recommended for city use but for holidays are just fine.
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SUV's are not recommended for city use but for holidays are just fine.
Having a vehicle all year, that you only use for holidays, is remarkably wasteful.
Why are you saying it's just fine?
Do you like getting laughed at?
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Wasteful of what?
Her Majesty's Gold State Coach is only used about 4 times per year. It was built in 1760, has probably covered 20,000 miles to date and will probably last another 300 years. Seems like a good investment of £7,000.
Reminds me of the builder quoting work for an Oxford college. He asked "Why do you want oak doors with brass hinges?" to which the estate manager replied "So in 400 years' time we will still have oak doors with brass hinges."
You surely wouldn't attend Glyndebourne or Ascot in your city car, BC? And even with the Congestion Charge keeping the hoi polloi out of Kensington, doesn't your driver find it difficult to park the Bentley outside Harrods?
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Seems like a good investment of £7,000.
Given what compound inflation has done to £7000, that's lousy value.
What would the taxi fares have been?
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Lord Rothschild used a London taxi for his personal transport. Asked why his chauffeur recommended it, he said "Because it can turn on a sixpence, whatever that is."
Seriously, would you hail a taxi knowing that Harry, Andrew or Donald might have sat in it?
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In my youth a lot of deliveries were done by motor tricycle
Only Mr Bean ran it off the road...
And Jeremy Clarkson tries to improve it...