Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: Just thinking on 10/07/2021 12:06:10
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Gold may come from closer to home. It is well known that gold is formed within the depths of stars as the high pressure and fusion that takes place forming the very heaviest of elements. It is thought that gold arrives on planets via asteroids and comets that have formed as a result of supernova remnants. This is most likely true but I have had a suspicion that this element of gold may be coming from our own sun. Some of the rarest and exotic elements may be created at the moment a star goes supernova but many elements are already within the core of stars. Every so often our sun has hiccups and can spew out material and shower the solar system and beyond. Every moment of every day the earth is increasing its mass as small particles enter our atmosphere these can be seen as the little streaks of light that are known as shooting stars The very thing that can pepper the windows and body of spacecraft. My theory is that gold may be entering the atmosphere on rare occasions when our sun decides to share I can not imagine gold arriving on earth as nuggets but as small dust size particles. What do you think?
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We know how much gold is in the sun.
https://periodictable.com/Properties/A/SolarAbundance.html
And it's not much.
And we know something about the elements that make it into teh corona; for a start the heavy ones (like gold) are less liekly to get that far.
And we also know, from things like this
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/306195/fulltext/
That elements with high first ionisation potentials are under-represented in the corona.
So, we start of with about 1 in ten million, and then reduce that fraction a bit- twice- to give us an idea of what's in the corona.
And the next question is; how much gets here?
Well, according to wiki
" the total mass loss each year is about (2–3)×10−14 solar masses,[27] or about 1.3–1.9 Million tonnes per second."
But almost all of that "misses" the Earth.
The fraction is that same as for the power that reaches us.
The Sun's total output is about 4E26 Watts.
And the earth gets about 150 PW
So we get about 3E-9 of the Sun's output. (Whether that's energy or mass)
So, that's about 0.4 Kg per second, of which about 1 in 1E7 is gold
So we get less than 50 micrograms of gold per second.
If you spread that across the whole surface of the Earth, it's far far less than 1 atom thick.
So the gold won't be dust or grains, it will be single atoms.
Good luck finding it.
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So we get less than 50 micrograms of gold per second.
I think the 50 micrograms per second x 6 billion years = 9.5 billion tons + all the other stars that have expelled this material during this time + our sun on rare occasions delivering larger quantities. This may account for the rarity of gold.
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all the other stars
In the same way that only the Sun is close enough to give us much warmth, it's the only star near enough to provide us with gold.
And don't forget that 50µg figure is an upper bound.
You need to take account of gold's much higher mass (which means less of it will leave the corona) and its very high ionisation potential which also scores against it.
The real figure is probably something like a thousand times less- maybe even smaller than that.
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The real figure is probably something like a thousand times less- maybe even smaller than that.
The amount of gold discovered on earth to this day is 250.000 tons that is only 1 part in 40.000 of the 9.5 billion tons. So we have a figure of 40.000 to play with. The assumption is that only 30% of the gold deposits are left I would doubt that as most of the gold is most likely at great depth.
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I also believe the gold on earth came from the sun, when the modern solar system and earth was forming. Our sun is a second generation star, that was once a first generation star. Its first life cycle ended in less than super nova fashion, allowing the sun to project its materials close by, to form planets. It then reconstituted itself for a second life cycle. The gold was dispersed in the new solar system, among the closer planets, due to its high material density.
The way this metamorphosis was possible can be understood by looking at the behavior of atoms inside the cores of stars, at the extreme pressure of gravity and the extreme temperatures of fusion.
On earth iron is heavier than hydrogen and will sink because of gravity. The hydrogen will float. On the other hand, if we pressurize and ionize one electron from both hydrogen and iron, hydrogen now becomes denser. Density is mass/volume. The ionization of the single electron of hydrogen decreases its volume to neutron density, while the iron with one electron ionized still has many electron left and it will retain it atomic density, since the rest of its electrons take up atomic space. At extreme pressure and temperature the ionization of smaller atoms makes these denser than the larger atoms, so they can feed the core fusion using gravitational pressures to create the density inversion.
What this scenario does is have the partially ionized larger atoms; oxygen, floating on a sea of smaller fully ionized and denser atoms like hydrogen and helium. The affect is similar to an iron ship floating on water due to the extra volume of the hull. Iron is denser than water, but will it float because the hull is takes up extra volume; atomic density of partially ionized heavy atoms is less.
The net result is the fusion core of a star will form a shell of heavier atoms which act as a diffusion barrier for the heavier hydrogen fuel going to the core.This helps the stars relegate their fusion rates so they do not flash in the pan. If fusion gets too hot, this will ionize the heavier atom shell. This makes the shell denser and restricts hydrogen diffusion, so the fusion core can cool. If fusion starves due to not enough fuel and gets cooler, the shell gains electrons, gets less dense and fluffs up more allowing more hydrogen to diffuse inward. We see this on the surface as solar flares and sun spots; hot and cold fusion output regulated by the shell.
Over time, the shell of increasing larger atoms will get thicker and will begin to restrict the flow of hydrogen to the fuse core at a higher bandwidth of temperature. The core will cool and the shell will gain electrons and fluff out as usual. However, the bulk materials will still limit hydrogen diffusion. Eventually the core will cool enough where the shell gets overly fluffy and a surge of hydrogen; back draft, will reach the core causing the fusion core to over achieve.
I call this fusion hammer, where the heat and pressure of the core fuel surge will bang against the shell leading to the synthesis of even higher atoms. In the extreme case of shell build up, this surge can clean the pipes and blow off part or all the shell. If only part of the shell is expelled, along with entrained gases and smaller atoms, a solar system can form. If this is done cleanly, the star can also reform with a thinner shell, that can help regulate its second life fusion. Binary stars can also form this way.
The gold was given to the earth when the sun's pipe were cleaned out at the end of its first life, with fusion hammer part of the force by which extra gold was made.
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The gold was given to the earth when the sun's pipe were cleaned out at the end of its first life, with fusion hammer part of the force by which extra gold was made.
Thanks puppypower for your explanation of this very rare and sort after material that has been delivered to earth. I have always believed that gold is not an original component of this earth but delivered here by other means.
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Just by way of throwing a spanner in the works, much interest is placed in asteroid mining due to the abundence of valuable metals. Earth and the asteroids are made from the same material, just the asteroids didn't liquidise and the precious metals did not sink. Some of the gold on earth has to come from there. This must also mean that the core has the missing gold from the Earth's surface.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
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I also believe the gold on earth came from the sun, when the modern solar system and earth was forming. Our sun is a second generation star, that was once a first generation star. Its first life cycle ended in less than super nova fashion, allowing the sun to project its materials close by, to form planets. It then reconstituted itself for a second life cycle.
So, you believe it breached the laws of conservation, and of energy.
Why are you posting on a science forum?
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On the other hand, if we pressurize and ionize one electron from both hydrogen and iron, hydrogen now becomes denser. Density is mass/volume. The ionization of the single electron of hydrogen decreases its volume to neutron density, while the iron with one electron ionized still has many electron left and it will retain it atomic density, since the rest of its electrons take up atomic space.
No.
Because the repulsion between the unshielded protons is huge.
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asteroids didn't liquidise and the precious metals did not sink
I think that what you say is right as the old asteroids would have accumulated more of the solar output on their surface than a larger planet that is actively hot.
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asteroids didn't liquidise and the precious metals did not sink
I think that what you say is right as the old asteroids would have accumulated more of the solar output on their surface than a larger planet that is actively hot.
But where did the gold in the sun come from? Did it sink to the centre of the primeval sun? If so how is there lead copper or iron on earth?
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But where did the gold in the sun come from? Did it sink to the centre of the primeval sun? If so how is there lead copper or iron on earth?
I must say I am no alchemist or geologist But I think most metals originated during the formation of the planets. Some say that gold and other rare heavy metals originated in supernova explosions and was flung throughout the universe that way. I think that stars/sun is more than capable of producing gold by their own fusion taking place deep within. The gold would be delivered to earth as very fine particle size and buildup over the time the earth has existed most of the gold has been heated on earth and with geological events sunk deep in the earth most of the gold we find has moved back to the surface plated to quartz rock. This plating breaks up and is the gold dust and flakes in the rivers. Nuggets are pieces of gold vain gold veins are accumulated gold dust that has been heated at depths.
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I think most metals originated during the formation of the planets.
No.
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No.
Maybe I should have said that most metals were part of the formation of the planets as the planets formed they were bombarded by iron and rocky material containing many of the elements found on earth. I do not think the earth was impacted by a 100 million ton gold nugget I know you didn't suggest that I thought I would just throw that in as a bonus. I am open to criticism and debate as this is only a theory and will no doubt have holes.
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this is only a theory
No it isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
What you have is a guess.
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What you have is a guess.
I may have come up with a new line in science it's called a theoryguess. You can use it too if you like. I'm expecting this new word theoryguess will be in the next edition of the dictionary.
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Where does your word come in the established hierarchy
Guess
Conjecture
Hypothesis
Theory
and what would we gain from your word, compared to using the proper words?
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Where does your word come in the established hierarchy
Guess
Conjecture
Hypothesis
Theory
and what would we gain from your word, compared to using the proper words?
I think a word like theoryhypothesisconjectureguess is just too much it would be like that railway station with the really long name and not catch on but theoryguess is a way to put forward a theory/guess and open up greater debate with interesting conjecture. After all, every good theory starts with possibility/guesswork until refined and taken seriously.
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I think a word like theoryhypothesisconjectureguess is just too much
Then you shouldn't have made it up, should you?
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Then you shouldn't have made it up, should you?
I didn't really make it up the words just came together then I rejected it like a bade theory.
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But where did the gold in the sun come from? Did it sink to the centre of the primeval sun? If so how is there lead copper or iron on earth?
I must say I am no alchemist or geologist But I think most metals originated during the formation of the planets. Some say that gold and other rare heavy metals originated in supernova explosions and was flung throughout the universe that way. I think that stars/sun is more than capable of producing gold by their own fusion taking place deep within. The gold would be delivered to earth as very fine particle size and buildup over the time the earth has existed most of the gold has been heated on earth and with geological events sunk deep in the earth most of the gold we find has moved back to the surface plated to quartz rock. This plating breaks up and is the gold dust and flakes in the rivers. Nuggets are pieces of gold vain gold veins are accumulated gold dust that has been heated at depths.
I suppose this theory has some credit. A lump of gold the same volume and velocity has more energy than a lump of aluminium. The same weight in gold is denser than a lump of aluminium. So centrifugal seperation is a possibility. The electrical magnetic qualities are worth investigating too, at the varying temperatures you envisage this theory happening at.
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I suppose this theory has some credit. A lump of gold the same volume and velocity has more energy than a lump of aluminium. The same weight in gold is denser than a lump of aluminium. So centrifugal seperation is a possibility. The electrical magnetic qualities are worth investigating too, at the varying temperatures you envisage this theory happening at.
I think there is a lot going on in stars that is yet to be discovered. The core of some planets including ours is a powerhouse factory but nothing compared to the heart of a star. Thanks for your partial agreement.
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I suppose this theory has some credit. A lump of gold the same volume and velocity has more energy than a lump of aluminium. The same weight in gold is denser than a lump of aluminium. So centrifugal seperation is a possibility. The electrical magnetic qualities are worth investigating too, at the varying temperatures you envisage this theory happening at.
I think there is a lot going on in stars that is yet to be discovered. The core of some planets including ours is a powerhouse factory but nothing compared to the heart of a star. Thanks for your partial agreement.
You will have to try harder for partial agreement, I agree it is possible that a part of Earth's gold may be ejected from the sun, with some reasonable device owing to golds properties differing from iron or hydrogen. But possibilities is along way from a theory. It is possible that the atoms in another parallel universe are ejected into this universe by leprechauns trying to hide their gold.
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It is possible that the atoms in another parallel universe are ejected into this universe by leprechauns trying to hide their gold.
That is a possibility or maybe it was an interstellar transporter crash Eddie Stobart may have had a gold transport service across the universe.