Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: Just thinking on 23/07/2021 13:47:37
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Have you ever wondered why the sun and all the stars are made of the lighter materials in the universe? Yet we have the larger gas planets far from the sun. It is believed that Jupiter may have come close to becoming a star due to its massive size. So why did the most primitive hydrogen atoms accumulate to give solar systems their central stars. Stars are large balls of plasma a state between liquid and gas the plasma is formed by the high temperature and gravitational forces generated by their mass. So to sum up we have a system with a very large gaseous plasma centre surrounded by the inner rocky bodies and a set of gas giants at the perimeter. I have asked only questions and given no answers so do you have the answers to this common phenomenon.
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Because, in the early universe there were only light elements present.
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Because, in the early universe there were only light elements present.
That I believe is true but what after that kick started the heavier elements in the presence of the early sun.
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The answers to these questions are rather long, and cannot really appropriately answered in a post. I recommend getting books on astronomy from the library. you can also look at star formation and gas planet formation on wiki.
Here are answers a few of your questions and comments.
It is believed that Jupiter may have come close to becoming a star due to its massive size.
No it is not nearly large enough. Jupiter would need to be 13 times it size to just be a brown dwarf. To be a low mass luminous star it would need to be 83 times larger.
plasma a state between liquid and gas
There are 4 states of matter: solid, liquid, gas and plasma. Plasma is super heated matter where atoms have their electrons torn away so there are just ions and electrons in a gaseous form.
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I would recommend starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis#Big_Bang_nucleosynthesis
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Hi.
I'm not sure which sentences were questions but I'll try and answer some things.
Have you ever wondered why the sun and all the stars are made of the lighter materials in the universe?
Yes.
Do you want some explanation?
The lighter elements, like Hydrogen and Helium are the most common elements in the universe.
There are some other elements in stars and older generation stars do contain more of the heavier elements (because there was more of those heavier elements around when those stars formed).
The average composition of a star matches with the average composition of the universe quite well.
We think the process of stellar evolution (the making of a star) is explained by gravity. There were some regions of space that were slightly more dense than others (there was slightly more mass here than usual). This matter pulls other matter toward it by gravity. The dense regions continue to become more dense and they are just pulling in whatever elements were around them.
So stars are mainly Hydrogen because it is (or it was) mainly Hydrogen that was around them when they formed. It is mainly just Hydrogen that is everywhere in the universe.
Yet we have the larger gas planets far from the sun.
The best explanation I have seen for this is as follows:
There probably were some small dense regions of gas near the sun originally. These were the seeds of small gaseous planetoids near the sun if you like and left alone they would have attracted more gas and become gaseous planets. However, once a star forms like our sun, it sends out radiation and solar winds (streams of energetic particles). These transfer momentum to the gas in the nearby gaseous planetoids. In effect the solar winds blow away any small gaseous deposits that were near to the sun.
The only place where gaseous planets can avoid being blown away is when they are far away from the sun and the intensity of the sun is much lower. Thus, we find gas giants at the outer edges of our solar system and not near the sun.
Meanwhile if there were rocky deposits accumulating near the sun, they have a much better chance of avoiding being blown apart and blown away by the solar winds. Planetoids with molten cores containing conductive metals are especially fortunate. These can form magnetic fields around the planetoid and really help to protect it and any atmosphere it has from the solar winds.
Thus we see rocky planets have survived near our sun.
I found this series of Astronomy videos quite informative and easily understood by non-experts:
"Crash course Astronomy" - PBS digital studios
(for episode #9 where the solar system is described)
Best wishes to you.
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It is believed that Jupiter may have come close to becoming a star due to its massive size.
No it is not nearly large enough. Jupiter would need to be 13 times it size to just be a brown dwarf. To be a low mass luminous star it would need to be 83 times larger.
I think you are right the answer to my last question would be rather long and drawn out. Regarding Jupiter, I think that we may have come close to becoming a double star system as the amount of gravitational force combined with the necessary elements are key to the beginning of fusion and Jupiter may be closer than many may believe. Without seeing the core of Jupiter we will never really know.
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The best explanation I have seen for this is as follows:
Thank you for that explanation it makes good sense I will follow up on the video.
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Have you ever wondered why the sun and all the stars are made of the lighter materials in the universe? Yet we have the larger gas planets far from the sun. It is believed that Jupiter may have come close to becoming a star due to its massive size. So why did the most primitive hydrogen atoms accumulate to give solar systems their central stars. Stars are large balls of plasma a state between liquid and gas the plasma is formed by the high temperature and gravitational forces generated by their mass. So to sum up we have a system with a very large gaseous plasma centre surrounded by the inner rocky bodies and a set of gas giants at the perimeter. I have asked only questions and given no answers so do you have the answers to this common phenomenon.
No one knows what is at the center of any star.
Really
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No one knows what is at the center of any star.
I believe that is very true at the core of all stars lay a great mystery.
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No one knows what is at the center of any star.
I believe that is very true at the core of all stars lay a great mystery.
Excellent, in fact at the center of our solar system which is the center of our sun may be new elements that are far heavier than anything on Earth
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Excellent, in fact at the center of our solar system which is the center of our sun may be new elements that are far heavier than anything on Earth
Yes, the material that is at the centre of a star may be very limited and so rare that it has never been discovered on our planet even though it may have arrived here from supernovas. in the past.
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Excellent, in fact at the center of our solar system which is the center of our sun may be new elements that are far heavier than anything on Earth
Yes, the material that is at the centre of a star may be very limited and so rare that it has never been discovered on our planet even though it may have arrived here from supernovas. in the past.
The Sun's massive gravity may have caught the heaviest material long before the planets had time to form. There may also be heavier elements than known at the center of the Earth as well
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I believe that is very true at the core of all stars lay a great mystery.
We have a pretty good understanding of what is going in the interiors of stars.
There is lots of information on line. Here is a an article: http://homepages.wmich.edu/~korista/starstruct.html (http://homepages.wmich.edu/~korista/starstruct.html)
Excellent, in fact at the center of our solar system which is the center of our sun may be new elements that are far heavier than anything on Earth
That is not likely for 2 reasons. The temperature and pressure in the center of the sun are not sufficient to fuse heavy elements. Transuranic elements that are not found naturally on earth have extremely short half-lives.
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No one knows what is at the center of any star.
Actually, we have a very good idea of the structure and composition of stars.
We know the chemical composition of the surface of a star, by means of spectroscopy.
- In a long-lived star like the Sun, the chemical composition is fairly well mixed (although this mixing is not the main form of heat transfer near the core).
- We can see the size, mass and energy output of the Sun, at the surface.
- From these we can use mathematics and/or computers to calculate the temperature and pressure all the way from the surface to the core
- Physicists have done experiments to determine the behavior of hydrogen and helium at the temperatures and pressures in the core of the Sun, so they know how hydrogen fusion proceeds
- And we can observe hydrogen fusion directly by observing solar neutrinos
Larger stars that have passed the hydrogen-burning stage have a more complex structure, that changes on much shorter timescales than the Sun, going through one or more red giant phases.
- But again, we can model these on computers to get the internal structure of these stars too.
in fact at the center of our solar system which is the center of our sun may be new elements that are far heavier than anything on Earth
Computer models tell us that the center of the Sun has a density 150 times greater than water, which is much denser than any material we have on Earth.
- However, it is just highly-compressed plasma, made of the same stuff as the rest of the Sun - mostly Hydrogen and Helium.
- The temperature in the center of the Sun is not high enough to produce any exotic elements - not even to increase the concentration of normal ones like oxygen and nitrogen
We are pretty familiar with the elements produced in a supernova (although there are some odd isotopes of the known elements)
- If you want exotic elements, you need to look into the debris of neutron star collisions, as that will produce large amounts of unstable elements of extremely high atomic number.
oops! Overlap with Origin
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I believe that is very true at the core of all stars lay a great mystery.
We have a pretty good understanding of what is going in the interiors of stars.
There is lots of information on line. Here is a an article: http://homepages.wmich.edu/~korista/starstruct.html (http://homepages.wmich.edu/~korista/starstruct.html)
Excellent, in fact at the center of our solar system which is the center of our sun may be new elements that are far heavier than anything on Earth
That is not likely for 2 reasons. The temperature and pressure in the center of the sun are not sufficient to fuse heavy elements. Transuranic elements that are not found naturally on earth have extremely short half-lives.
There is no understanding as to what is at the center of any star, but you can be the first to drill a core sample. Let us know what you find
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I do not think that any experiments can simulate the huge pressure that the gravity of the sun has on its core if we could we would be making diamonds every day and yes I know we can make diamonds and with far less pressure than the suns core. At the core of the sun, the psi in the centre is 5 trillion psi. Just a little bit more than an elephant standing on your foot.
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There is no understanding as to what is at the center of any star
It's not at all true to say that we have no understanding. With enough knowledge about physics, you can make very good guesses as to what is (or isn't) there. That's obviously not the same thing as proof, but it's still fairly good.
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The solar system extends farther than the eight planets that orbit the Sun. The solar system also includes the Kuiper Belt that lies past Neptune's orbit. These are ring of icy bodies.
Its existence is predicted based on mathematical models and observations of comets that likely originate there.
Regarding the Sun itself. A group of researchers is using artificial intelligence techniques to calibrate images of the Sun, helping improve the data that scientists use for solar research.
The Atmospheric Imagery Assembly (AIA) is an imaging instrument that looks constantly at the Sun, taking images across 10 wavelengths of ultraviolet light every 12 seconds. Machine learning (ML) came to improve AIA calibration.
Now researchers can be more sure of the calibration algorithm.
Researchers are also using ML to better understand conditions closer to home.
A group of researchers used ML to better understand the connection between Earth’s magnetic field and the ionosphere, the electrically charged part of Earth’s upper atmosphere. By using data science techniques to large volumes of data, they could apply ML techniques to develop a newer model that helped them better understand how energized particles from space rain down into Earth’s atmosphere, where they drive space weather.
As ML advances, its scientific applications will expand to more and more missions. For the future, this may mean that deep space missions can still be calibrated and continue giving accurate data, even when getting out to greater and greater distances from Earth or any stars.
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The solar system extends farther than the eight planets that orbit the Sun. The solar system also includes the Kuiper Belt that lies past Neptune's orbit. These are ring of icy bodies.
Its existence is predicted based on mathematical models and observations of comets that likely originate there.
Regarding the Sun itself. A group of researchers is using artificial intelligence techniques to calibrate images of the Sun, helping improve the data that scientists use for solar research.
The Atmospheric Imagery Assembly (AIA) is an imaging instrument that looks constantly at the Sun, taking images across 10 wavelengths of ultraviolet light every 12 seconds. Machine learning (ML) came to improve AIA calibration.
Now researchers can be more sure of the calibration algorithm.
Researchers are also using ML to better understand conditions closer to home.
A group of researchers used ML to better understand the connection between Earth’s magnetic field and the ionosphere, the electrically charged part of Earth’s upper atmosphere. By using data science techniques to large volumes of data, they could apply ML techniques to develop a newer model that helped them better understand how energized particles from space rain down into Earth’s atmosphere, where they drive space weather.
As ML advances, its scientific applications will expand to more and more missions. For the future, this may mean that deep space missions can still be calibrated and continue giving accurate data, even when getting out to greater and greater distances from Earth or any stars.
Hi Tommy J the technology we have today is outstanding and what you have outlined is very true I look forward to the results of all the work that is taking place now.