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General Science => General Science => Topic started by: cheapo on 11/10/2021 19:05:54

Title: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: cheapo on 11/10/2021 19:05:54
I've been using torque wrenches for decades. First as a tire fitter, and now as a CNC machine setter. But I recently found out that the Newton is a measure of acceleration, and was wanting to know how the heck that translates into a measurement of twisting force?
 Shirley, acceleration is normally viewed as linear, and how can "second per second" be involved in a spanner, unless you drop it? Even when you throw it, it's decelerating after you let go.
 I know about centripetal force, as I wrote to Skateboarding Magazine several decades ago about how it affects a skateboarder in a curved transition. I titles that article "Who Cares Anyway?"
You are, I'm sure, aware that a "decade" is a flatland BMX trick.

Regards cheapo  ;D
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: Origin on 11/10/2021 19:10:51
Newton is a measure of acceleration,
No, a Newton is a measure of force.  A Newton-meter is a measure of torque.  So the force of one Newton applied to a lever arm at a radius of 1 meter is one Newton-meter
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: cheapo on 11/10/2021 19:14:47
Britannica dot com disagrees with you.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: cheapo on 11/10/2021 19:16:34
I just want to know how the Newton is converted to torque from acceleration.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: Origin on 11/10/2021 19:28:22
I just want to know how the Newton is converted to torque from acceleration.
There is no question that a Newton is a measure of force.  Your sentence doesn't make sense to me.  A Newton is converted to torque when you multiply the newtons by the distance of the lever arm.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 11/10/2021 20:46:25
Get a lever measuring 1m in length, put a socket on the end of it, apply a 1kg weight at the alternate end when connected at the socket with the lever at a horizontal plane, you are now applying 10N of torque.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: cheapo on 11/10/2021 20:50:18
Yes I understand about the force and the metre part.
So, what you're basically saying is that I don't need to worry about the inclusion of the "one metre per second squared" phrase, and just go with the flow. Force is force, and acceleration can be a by-product of it. I mean, I'm no scientist, as I've mentioned, and I definitely appreciate the creation of the measurement being named after the man himself, and it did all happened in 1947, 6 yrs before I was born.
But I like to mess with things like this in my depleted grey cells, despite zero knowledge on my part.
Hmm, so if 1 kilo object was accelerated at 1mps squared since 1974 we can assume it would be travelling at less than 0.007 of the speed of light by now.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: Bored chemist on 11/10/2021 20:52:39
Get a lever measuring 1m in length, put a socket on the end of it, apply a 1kg weight at the alternate end when connected at the socket with the lever at a horizontal plane, you are now applying 10N of torque.
Assuming you are on Earth.

The Newton is certainly not a unit of acceleration, even on the Moon.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: cheapo on 11/10/2021 20:58:56
So I was just wondering why I read this in the description,
 " A newton is defined as 1 kg⋅m/s2 "
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: evan_au on 11/10/2021 22:24:17
Quote from: cheapo
" A newton is defined as 1 kg⋅m/s2 "
One way of reading this is through Newton's law of motion: F=ma
- F: Force (eg in Newtons)
- m: Mass (eg in kilograms)
- a: Acceleration (eg in m/s2)

The units say the same thing: If you apply a force of 1 newton to a mass of 1kg (in space), it will accelerate at 1 m/s2. If you like, the mass is the conversion factor between force and acceleration.

The Newton is not a basic unit in the metric system, so it must be translated into basic units like kilograms, meters and seconds, which you can do via F=ma.

Oops! Overlap with Halc
Quote from: Halc
or whatever he called it before it was named after him
I understand that the Imperial unit of "the pound" was originally defined as a weight, which is a force.
So the pound did not need a conversion into force, it was already a force.
Not too much of a problem on Earth (g does vary a little over the surface of the Earth), but the same mass has a different weight on the Moon or Jupiter, while a Newton has the same force in all places, and a kilogram has the same mass in all these places.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: cheapo on 11/10/2021 23:17:27
 Ah, ok, sorry if I seemed argumentative Origin.
I like topics that have branches. And yep, the Earth is like me, fatter in the middle.
 So the acceleration inherent in 1 Newton simply isn't present in the Newton metre, and the Newton, in that case represents a kilogram of force.
I wonder if our man Isaac didn't officially name it as it was based around the kilogram (force or mass), and if you were to ramp up through the levels from, say, deci-kilo (Newton) etc, you would come to kilo-kilo.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: alancalverd on 11/10/2021 23:46:21
Isaac Newton was dead before the kilogram was invented. Being an English  gentleman, not a French revolutionary, he dealt in pounds and feet.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: Origin on 12/10/2021 01:46:48
 Ah, ok, sorry if I seemed argumentative Origin
No problem.
Title: Re: How is the Newton converted to a torque measurement?
Post by: cheapo on 12/10/2021 17:56:22
Isaac Newton was dead before the kilogram was invented. Being an English  gentleman, not a French revolutionary, he dealt in pounds and feet.

History, my worst ever subject!  ;)