Post by: vdblnkr34 on 31/12/2021 23:24:37
CO2RecStation.png (24.99 kB . 991x760 - viewed 4562 times)And this one is for mobile version. You can place that on trucks, trains, diesel generators, rocket test rooms, wielding shops, farms etc.
CO2RecMobile.png (10.28 kB . 675x502 - viewed 4440 times)Liquid CO2 unloads at the Truck or Train Station automatically or while refueling at gas station or shop. Diesel trains are the best.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 31/12/2021 23:28:38
The benefit is the only thing need is to mix CO and H2 together. Not like with methane. Using dynamo machines water can be separated electrically into oxygen and hydrogen. Oxygen can be released or sold. We can do Ocean water to reduce ocean levels.
How much is this, expensive to run. But, don't be afraid, its not a lot.
Using solar power panels and other generators will be possible to reduce running and production costs
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/01/2022 00:20:14
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 01/01/2022 20:05:20
Someone needs to build this and its not me.
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/01/2022 20:23:50
If you have enough energy to do that you can use it directly.
Or you can use the hydrogen as fuel.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 01/01/2022 20:28:50
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/01/2022 20:35:37
Dynamo mashine.And what turns the machine?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 01/01/2022 20:42:08
Post by: Kryptid on 01/01/2022 21:28:39
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 01/01/2022 21:59:51
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 01/01/2022 22:00:48
Can I use vehicle fuel pump to pump oxygen and hydrogen? Or it has to be that very expensive hardware.
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/01/2022 22:45:02
The problem is that any such system will need power from somewhere.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 01/01/2022 22:57:35
Do you understand that the problem is not the details of how it is made?
The problem is that any such system will need power from somewhere.
Yes, I understand. I know laws of electrodynamics. And there will be power using solar power cells and electrical generators.
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/01/2022 10:14:34
electrical generators.What drives the generators?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 02/01/2022 13:00:43
electrical generators.What drives the generators?
Electric motors powered by coupled with generators, called dynamo machine. There is also above someone mentioned to use hydrogen and oxygen to heat the steam machine that will drive generator. Steam machines are very efficient.
To power electric motors to use solar power generators, water turbine, thermal power generation is good idea to use.
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/01/2022 18:32:21
To power electric motors to use solar power generators, water turbine, thermal power generation is good idea to use.If you have that, why would you be generating CO2?
Post by: chiralSPO on 02/01/2022 18:57:56
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 02/01/2022 21:39:48
To power electric motors to use solar power generators, water turbine, thermal power generation is good idea to use.If you have that, why would you be generating CO2?
I dont need to. Its to recycle it form factories. To make synthesis gas.
Post by: chiralSPO on 02/01/2022 21:51:11
It takes more (usable) energy to convert CO2 and water into fuels (and oxygen) than you could ever get from burning said fuels (with oxygen) to generate CO2 and water.
So if you have enough energy to capture CO2 from a factory, and convert it back into fuel, then you have enough energy to run the factory without making CO2 in the first place.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 02/01/2022 23:40:55
Post by: chiralSPO on 03/01/2022 01:57:05
Post by: alancalverd on 03/01/2022 12:07:09
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 04/01/2022 13:11:51
Post by: Bored chemist on 04/01/2022 15:49:44
Practice showed that its not enough. Plus it was found that plants, trees can live in many different gases environment. So, it is under a question how did trees adopted to that. Also only at day light trees converting CO2 into O2, during the night it is opposite. O2 into CO2.Trees do not disappear at night.
The carbon they capture as cellulose etc is not suddenly reconverted to CO2 during darkness.
Post by: alancalverd on 04/01/2022 17:53:35
Trees do not disappear at night.And there are trees in daylight somewhere, all the time. The CO2 moves around the earth to feed them, all by itself - no pumps required.
So, it is under a question how did trees adopted to that.A very interesting question, but it belongs in a biology/evolution thread. Fact is that all modern plants absorb CO2 when the sun shines, and adapt themselves to grow more quickly when there is more CO2 in the atmosphere. Not sure what the upper limit is, but some local market gardeners run their greenhouses at 5% CO2 - toxic to humans - to get great yields of tomatoes and cucumbers.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 05/01/2022 03:40:36
Post by: Kryptid on 05/01/2022 03:57:08
Why 5%? Did they try 100%?
I imagine that would kill the plants. Plants need oxygen, too.
Post by: alancalverd on 05/01/2022 10:03:50
* www.atlasobscura.com/places/cave-of-dogs
Post by: Bored chemist on 05/01/2022 14:04:11
5% would be tolerable for a short period in an emergency - say if you needed to rescue someone who inadvertently entered and lost consciousness.Guess what usually happens in that circumstance.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/731374-six-booked-for-manslaughter-over-factory-workers-suffocation
https://www.livescience.com/57779-how-liquid-nitrogen-can-kill.html
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2228946/two-youngsters-die-trying-save-rooster-well
https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/qatar/five-asian-workers-suffocate-to-death-in-sewage-network-manhole-1.233798
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 06/01/2022 22:11:23
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/01/2022 08:37:09
synthesis gasWhere do we get that from?
Post by: alancalverd on 07/01/2022 11:19:35
Guess what usually happens in that circumstance."Inhaling liquid nitrogen" seems a pretty extreme activity. I've heard that cocaine eventually damages the nose, but where's the high that accompanies instant frostbite?
If someone had walked into a 5% CO2 enhanced greenhouse and collapsed, I'd be reasonably happy to take a deep breath and drag him out without waiting for the exhaust fans to kick in. Less happy at 100% - a second breath would be ......breathtaking.
Post by: alancalverd on 07/01/2022 11:24:58
There are several experimental plants already synthesising fuels from atmospheric CO2 and electrolytic hydrogen, but I haven't seen a chemical factory as pretty as a forest or an orchard.synthesis gasWhere do we get that from?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 07/01/2022 12:48:08
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/01/2022 12:49:24
If someone had walked into a 5% CO2 enhanced greenhouse and collapsed, I'd be reasonably happy to take a deep breath and drag him out without waiting for the exhaust fans to kick in.If anyone had been able to ask the people who died in the incidents I listed, they would have said the same thing...
"Inhaling liquid nitrogen" seems a pretty extreme activity.That's why nobody does it.
Why did you raise the idea?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 07/01/2022 12:53:59
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/01/2022 12:57:00
they have to make methane ... from synthesis gas using CO2.
synthesis gasWhere do we get that from?
Its a mix of CO and H2. Usually used methane to do this conversion.So, you are saying that because they have no methane they will have to use synthesis gas made from methane.
Do you see a problem there?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 07/01/2022 13:03:17
We have lot of water and a lot of CO2.
Post by: alancalverd on 07/01/2022 16:29:01
Quote from: alancalverd on Today at 11:19:35Quote"Inhaling liquid nitrogen" seems a pretty extreme activity.That's why nobody does it.
Why did you raise the idea?
You did!
https://www.livescience.com/57779-how-liquid-nitrogen-can-kill.html
Quote
But why is inhaling liquid nitrogen so deadly, given that nearly 80 percent of the air people breathe is made up of nitrogen?
Post by: chiralSPO on 07/01/2022 16:38:20
No. That how was found this synthesis gas long time ago. I offer to use CO2+H2O to convert it into CO+H2. Its going to be super easy.
We have lot of water and a lot of CO2.
I think you have your reaction wrong, the water gas shift (or reverse water gas shift) is:
H2O + CO
H2 + CO2so if you want to consume water, then you need CO, and if you want consume CO2, you need hydrogen.
It is technologically feasible to generate hydrogen from water in a sustainable way, and use that hydrogen to reduce carbon dioxide to synthesis gas, which can then be used to make a wide range of hydrocarbons. The problem is that it is not currently economically feasible. There are three ways to address that:
1) technological/scientific advances to increase the efficiency of the conversion (it will always require more energy than will be stored in the fuel produced, but sunlight is abundant and cheap, so that's ok)
2) Take advantage of economies of scale. There is no way that a "small" factory producing 1000 barrels of sustainable diesel could ever compete with the massive production and distribution infrastructure that the petrochemical industry has.
3) Actually make the producers of fossil fuels pay to manage their waste (we don't even need to tax CO2, though that would be simple and fair). The companies that search for and extract fossil fuels are heavily subsidized, and have been able to get away with just dumping (or leaving) their waste to be a problem for whatever poor souls gave them extraction rights. And, somehow, whenever a company causes an environmental disaster that costs more than they are worth, the government steps in to clean up their mess, pat them on the head, and say, try better next time... smh
Post by: alancalverd on 07/01/2022 16:42:09
However partial oxidation of coke has played an important part in industry and transport. First, heat coal or wood to extract lots of useful volatiles (tar, oil, etc) then use the carbon residue
1. 2C + O2 -> 2CO + heat (producer gas)
2. C + H2O -> CO + H2 - heat (water gas)
You cycle the two reactions to keep the coke between red and white heat, and store the mixed product as a very useful fuel.
Post by: chiralSPO on 07/01/2022 16:46:19
Quote from: alancalverd on Today at 11:19:35Quote"Inhaling liquid nitrogen" seems a pretty extreme activity.That's why nobody does it.
Why did you raise the idea?
You did!
https://www.livescience.com/57779-how-liquid-nitrogen-can-kill.htmlQuoteBut why is inhaling liquid nitrogen so deadly, given that nearly 80 percent of the air people breathe is made up of nitrogen?
The article mistakenly ays "inhaled liquid nitrogen" at one. point, but then clearly explains how a tank of LN2 can rupture, allowing the liquid to vaporize and displace all of the air in a room.
Alan, don't you work with MRIs? I assume you know what happens when a magnet quenches...
For those who don't already know, superconducting magnets have to be kept very cold (for now). This is commonly achieved by using liquid helium to maintain a frigid 4 degrees Kelvin, which is kept inside another container that is kept at a balmy 77 degrees Kelvin with liquid nitrogen, to avoid heat transfer with the outside air, which is typically around 300 degrees Kelvin. Very high currents are passed through the superconducting coils to produce the magnetic field, but if something goes wrong and the helium evaporates, then the wires' resistance rises from zero, and essentially act as a resistive heating element, causing the liquid nitrogen (and any remaining liquid helium) to boil off very quickly (sometimes explosively). The amount of liquid nitrogen in a machine the size of a small car can easily displace all of the air in a warehouse within seconds!
Post by: alancalverd on 07/01/2022 16:52:10
The companies that search for and extract fossil fuels are heavily subsidized,Search, yes, but production is hugely profitable once the geologists and drillers have found the stuff. Same as mining. It's an academic question as to whether paying prospectors and trial drillers (who can't guarantee success) counts as subsidy or research investment. I certainly don't see any governments giving taxpayers' money to production and refinement except where production is actually state-owned.
Post by: alancalverd on 07/01/2022 16:55:47
Alan, don't you work with MRIs? I assume you know what happens when a magnet quenches...Indeed. But suffocation incidents are usually associated with the loading and cooling process, not a subsequent quench. We have exhaust stacks to vent quench gas safely once the magnet is assembled.
My own MRI units used room-temperature resistive magnets or high-temperature supercons cooled with gaseous helium, but now I'm working with other people's kit, fraught with the dangers of liquid refrigerants.
Fortunately modern MRIs don't use nitrogen - one less problem - and capture helium boiloff, saving a lot of money. Time was that liquid helium was cheaper than beer when vast quantities were used for North Sea divers maintaining oil and gas rigs, but so much was exhausted to the cosmos that it is now more expensive than champagne.
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/01/2022 17:18:41
I offer to use CO2+H2O to convert it into CO+H2. Its going to be super easy.How?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 07/01/2022 17:40:50
I offer to use CO2+H2O to convert it into CO+H2. Its going to be super easy.How?
Many ways to convert CO2 into CO. CO2 can be mixed with calcium, natrium, lithium and many others. That give opportunity to make a product during CO2 to CO conversion. Or directly CO2 => 2CO. H2 from water and O2. High pulsating DC would do the job faster.
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/01/2022 18:14:15
calcium, natrium, lithium and many others.All of which are much more expensive than natural gas.
So what would be the point?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 07/01/2022 18:18:16
Post by: chiralSPO on 07/01/2022 18:27:49
No its not. It would be very low cost. If to use hydrogen gas gotten for free.
No such thing as free.
The Laws of Thermodynamics are, unfortunately, not able to be revised, amended, or repealed. They are (roughly):
1) You can't win
2) You can't tie
3) You have already started the game
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/01/2022 18:31:59
If to use hydrogen gas gotten for free.Why do you keep ignoring the fact that you can not get things for free?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 07/01/2022 18:42:01
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/01/2022 18:50:18
You seem to be ignoring the fundamental laws of physics and economics here.
I meant hydrogen/oxygen gas will be for free electrical power generated by the electrical dynamo machine.The dynamo does not, and can not ever produce free power.
Please learn that simple fact.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 07/01/2022 21:54:48
Post by: chiralSPO on 07/01/2022 22:23:31
Of course it does. What is the electricity magical ability. Size is no matter, amount does. What is the magical ability of the material, size matters.
qu'est-ce que le f***?
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 08/01/2022 01:00:08
Post by: chiralSPO on 08/01/2022 03:20:27
Post by: alancalverd on 08/01/2022 12:06:06
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/01/2022 12:12:22
My invitation remains open. Bring me a device that actually produces more energy than it consumes and I will find engineers and investors to commercialise it. Absolute secrecy and 10% of the profits guaranteed.It's tempting to offer to outbid Alan by offering 50%, or even 90%, of the profits. But the reality is I'm happy to let him deal with the cranks who think they can meet the requirement.
Post by: alancalverd on 08/01/2022 12:19:01
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 08/01/2022 13:08:26
My invitation remains open. Bring me a device that actually produces more energy than it consumes and I will find engineers and investors to commercialise it. Absolute secrecy and 10% of the profits guaranteed.
Here it is. Upgrade for dynamo machine. Rotorless generator.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
The circumference of a generator longer than the circumference of the motor.
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/01/2022 13:15:51
That looks like Alan's offer of a contract was made and accepted (possibly without checking the small print but that's the OP's choice).My invitation remains open. Bring me a device that actually produces more energy than it consumes and I will find engineers and investors to commercialise it. Absolute secrecy and 10% of the profits guaranteed.
Here it is. Upgrade for dynamo machine. Rotorless generator.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
The circumference of a generator longer than the circumference of the motor.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 08/01/2022 15:16:44
There are some small features how to make it more powerful, but the concept I believe understood.
Post by: Colin2B on 08/01/2022 23:04:49
That looks like Alan's offer of a contract was made and accepted (possibly without checking the small print but that's the OP's choice).By small print I assume you mean this bit “Bring me a device that actually produces more energy than it consumes” ???
Post by: alancalverd on 08/01/2022 23:10:22
The "rotorless generator" you drew, involves two rotors, so isn't rotorless at all. It would make a neat coaxial electromechanical voltage converter that we used to use in aircraft but these have all been superseded by electronic inverters. The electronic ones are much more efficient than the motor-dynamo but sadly, still only produce about 90 - 95% of what they consume, so no development deal.
Please send my £75 consultancy fee (I'm very cheap) + 20% VAT. Details by private message.
Post by: alancalverd on 08/01/2022 23:16:57
By small print I assume you mean this bit “Bring me a device that actually produces more energy than it consumes”No, I review any plans or prototypes at a very reasonable hourly rate (£150) with a minimum charge of £75 + VAT.
If a client produces an actual working device I'll take on the development project at risk as stated: I'll assemble an equity consortium of investors and engineers and pay the inventor 10% of any and all profits we make from the sale of whatever energy or energetic product it produces.
Post by: Petrochemicals on 08/01/2022 23:41:24
My invitation remains open. Bring me a device that actually produces more energy than it consumes and I will find engineers and investors to commercialise it. Absolute secrecy and 10% of the profits guaranteed.Sadly I don't think the will be much profit from "calvert heat pumps". If we install a heat pump in the nevada desert (as helpfully heat pumps work most efficiently at higher temperatures and transfer the energy to a turbine that may work.
Post by: alancalverd on 08/01/2022 23:48:03
Post by: Colin2B on 09/01/2022 12:37:48
The "rotorless generator" you drew, involves two rotors, so isn't rotorless at all. It would make a neat coaxial electromechanical voltage converter that we used to use in aircraftTakes me back. In my misspent youth I used an airforce surplus one to drive a portable transmitter from a battery. I say portable, transportable would be a better description.
The converter generated a lot of interference so I built a diode capacitor voltage pump instead.
There is one feature of the design you've been shown that I like:
The circumference of a generator longer than the circumference of the motor.Makes it easier to roll to the dump 8)
Good luck getting your fees!
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 10/01/2022 19:58:50
Post by: Petrochemicals on 12/01/2022 09:44:35
A heat pump can only transfer heat from one place to another. It can't generate energy,That is all generation is Alan, in science there is a rule called the conservation of energy. One cannot just "create energy", its considered a no-no.
https://www.britannica.com/science/conservation-of-energy
It's not the best article, but it's a good one to start yourself on.
Post by: JesWade21 on 02/02/2022 11:49:54
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 02/02/2022 18:46:15
A heat pump can only transfer heat from one place to another. It can't generate energy, any more than a truck can generate its cargo, and like a truck, it consumes energy to do the moving.
I found a good use for your heat pump idea. High pressure hot steam. Is it enough to run this heat pump?
Post by: Iannguyen on 08/02/2022 12:07:21
Setting out separate containers for glass, metal, and paper isn't nearly as complicated as recycling carbon dioxide. Many scientists, however, feel that it is not just worthwhile, but also critical. They say that the threat of climate change to the earth is now so enormous that any effort to solve it must incorporate so-called "carbon negative" technology. This entails extracting the greenhouse gas out of the atmosphere and using it for something useful. If hazardous climate change is to be avoided, humanity must stop emitting CO2 from fossil fuel use. However, for critical mobility applications, liquid carbon-based energy carriers are sometimes the only viable option. The use of renewable energy to recycling atmospheric CO2 into synthetic fuels provides an energy concept with no net CO2 emissions.
Scientists can convert CO2 into short molecules like carbon monoxide and methane using energy, water, and a variety of catalysts, which they can then combine to make more complex hydrocarbon fuels like butane.
The concept is based on artificial photosynthesis: where nature can take light, CO2, and water and turn it into food, we're looking for methods to construct systems that can take CO2, renewable energy, and water and turn it into more valuable items. It's similar to a reverse fuel cell. Water is divided into protons and oxygen gas at the anode, while CO2 is electrochemically converted to various value-added compounds such carbon monoxide, methane, and ethylene at the cathode. So you're electrochemically decreasing CO2 by feeding it protons and electrons [from the water and electricity].
Post by: alancalverd on 08/02/2022 15:45:23
Scientists can convert CO2 into short molecules like carbon monoxide and methane using energy, water, and a variety of catalysts, which they can then combine to make more complex hydrocarbon fuels like butane.Which we then burn to make CO2.
Fact is that our standard of living is utterly dependent on burning carbon compounds, either to keep ourselves alive (as food) or to make stuff and go places.