Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: tackem on 12/03/2022 21:56:26
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How did Ivermectin trick us into believing it was a cure for Covid?
An alternative theory.
Searching for relief of my own depression I theorised that one (or more) of the many human parasitical worms were responsible for depleting the amount of serotonin available to the host (me). Subsequently, taking the worm medicine Mebendazole improved my mood tremendously.
Around the same time, Ivermectin was being promoted as the cure for Covid.
Using my research on worms and depression I propose that Ivermectin was simply killing off any undiagnosed worm infection and allowing an increase in serotonin levels leading to an improved mood.
At the time there was a collective mass hysteria that if you did not feel well you must have Covid. Thus if you felt well you did not have Covid.
My theory is that the Ivermectin was killing any worm infection leading to an increase in serotonin levels and an increase in good mood which was misinterpreted as being Covid free.
From this theory I also postulate that worms are responsible for low mood in humans and anti parasitic worm medicine should be investigated as a novel anti-depressant.
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Well that all sounds a bit crazy to me. I am going to worm our horses on Monday, but not with ivermectin this time.
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The sad fact is that ivermectin doesn't work against covid.
But there is a simple reason that people thought that ivermectin could treat covid.
Unfortunately, it involves a very important misunderstanding.
Someone did the research and found that the drug does inhibit the virus
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011
And we understand the nature of that interaction
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41429-021-00491-6
The trouble is that the drug doesn't treat the disease.
The concentration needed to inhibit the virus would harm the patient.
So you can't use it.
So there is no need to invoke worms.
Subsequently, taking the worm medicine Mebendazole improved my mood tremendously.
It's essentially impossible to rule ot the placebo effect here.
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MOD EDIT: Despite warnings, this poster decided to post yet another long, misleading monologue in another person’s thread.
The post has been removed.
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Puppypower, are you really so stupid that you don't know if covid is going to be an unnoticeable infection, or a death sentence until you get it?
Or is it that you understand that, but can't understand how that leads to the conclusion that, since it might kill you, you should take it seriously?
It's nothing to do with "Big Brother".
It's a virus that killed millions and crippled tens of millions.
Risk is connected to the emotion of fear,
No it is not.
And my job is assessing risk.
Please stop posting nonsense.
The providers of the money, in conjunction with the bureaucracy, expected a quid pro quo, which can be metered out,
They got it.
A much lower death toll.
Dead people don't vote.
If ivermectin worked in the lab, with the same odds, as the risk based fear; 1 in 1000, why didn't it get the same acceptance?
BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK!
That's nothing to do with odds or fear- that's just your ramblings.
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The mechanism behind the effectiveness of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine is based on the early treatment in the viral replica phase of the infection. These treatments are only effective in conjunction with other treatments like zinc and azithromycin.
The alkaline conditions Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine present in the lung tissues allow the zinc to be absorbed into the cell. The presence of zinc inhibits the viral replication.
If you are past the viral replication phase, these drugs are not effective.
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The mechanism behind the effectiveness of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine is based on the early treatment in the viral replica phase of the infection. These treatments are only effective in conjunction with other treatments like zinc and azithromycin.
The alkaline conditions Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine present in the lung tissues allow the zinc to be absorbed into the cell. The presence of zinc inhibits the viral replication.
If you are past the viral replication phase, these drugs are not effective.
Got citations for all of that?
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The presence of zinc inhibits the viral replication.
All human cells contain zinc.
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The mechanism behind the effectiveness of Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine is based on the early treatment in the viral replica phase of the infection. These treatments are only effective in conjunction with other treatments like zinc and azithromycin.
The alkaline conditions Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine present in the lung tissues allow the zinc to be absorbed into the cell. The presence of zinc inhibits the viral replication.
If you are past the viral replication phase, these drugs are not effective.
Got citations for all of that?
I thought this was pretty much common knowledge but here you go.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32623082/
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.28.21258012v1
https://pgibertie.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full_.pdf
More detailed explanation for those who have not done the research:
Hydroxychloroquine zinc and zithromax (azithromycin)
1. It raises the Ph of the cell which makes the cell alkaline and turns off the inflammatory action.
2. This modulates the immune system’s response to help calm Coronavirus-induced inflammatory reactions, especially in the lungsreduces the body’s overly excited signaling processes which can result in dangerous cytokine storms in the lungshas anti-infective and disruptive actions against Coronavirus (an RNA virus)
3. It promotes absorption of additional Zinc into cells which impairs Coronavirus replication
4. HCQ is well absorbed and hits peak levels all over the body in only 4 hours and is especially concentrated in lung tissues. It is slowly eliminated, taking more than 40 days to clear the body
5. Physicians all over the world have been using a combination of Hydroxychloroquine plus Azithromycin, reporting excellent statistics of viral clearing from the body in 3-5 days after starting treatment. Doctors have noted the treatment works much better if started in the early stages of infection. Unfortunately, results have not been as promising when patients who were already critical were started on the treatment
Azithromycin (Z-pak) is an antibiotic, useful in treating lung infections and pneumonia. Like Hydroxychloroquine, it concentrates in lung tissues. Azithromycin is an unusual antibiotic because it also possesses anti-viral activity. Additionally, its anti-inflammatory effects protect patients from the cytokine storms which result in severe lung inflammation.
Heart problems are an issue with Chloroquine, it’s cousin.
Heart problems were also an issue when doctors were using 2-3 times the normal dose. Current dose 400 mg per day.
Other long term problems are Retina toxicity. Retina toxicity at 5 years is 0. at 10 years it’s 1%. OTC retina scanner can help deter this condition. Of course this is mainly for Lupus patients who take this continuously.
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Problems with the analysis in “Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and Combination in Patients Hospitalized with COVID-19”
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30602-0/fulltext
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I heard another theory about why Ivermectin could potentially reduce COVID impacts (from a friend working in the pharmaceutical industry):
- Ivermectin is known to kill intestinal worms (that is what won the 2015 Nobel prize)
- Intestinal worms are known to tone down the immune system of their host (so the host immune system doesn't attack the worms so strongly)
- Many people in in 3rd-world countries are suffering from undiagnosed and untreated intestinal worms
- So a standard dose of Ivermectin would kill off the intestinal worms. Maybe then the human immune system recovered, and when subsequently exposed to COVID, these patients were better able to fight off the viral infection?
- This would have little or no affect in "Western" countries (where many of the Ivermectin trials have been run), as rates of intestinal worm infection are low, and any cases of worms are promptly treated.
I see it as a logical chain of events, but it's a long way from proof.
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Problems with the analysis in “Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and Combination in Patients Hospitalized with COVID-19”
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30602-0/fulltext
Once the patient is hospitalized, it is usually too late for this treatment.
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Once the patient is hospitalized, it is usually too late for this treatment.
Research has shown that the 'treatment' doesn't work if given before hospitalization either.
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Once the patient is hospitalized, it is usually too late for this treatment.
Research has shown that the 'treatment' doesn't work if given before hospitalization either.
Got citations for all that?
Doctors who were on the front lines and treated millions of Covid patients would disagree with you. Doctors who never treated patients would however agree. Strange...
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Got citations for all that?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869
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Doctors who were on the front lines and treated millions of Covid patients would disagree with you. Doctors who never treated patients would however agree.
Got citations for all that?
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Got citations for all that?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115869
Ivermectin as a treatment by itself is not what we are discussing here, That study is bogus.
Why do you think generic drugs have been quickly denounced? Is there some sector that benefits from this?
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Can we please not go into conspiracy theories?
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Wasn’t India using a doxycycline and Ivermectin combination for early treatment with good results? Seems the big factor here is catching the virus early.
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Wasn’t India using a doxycycline and Ivermectin combination for early treatment with good results?
No.
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What's the difference between conspiracy theories and the truth?
About 1 year...
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What's the difference between conspiracy theories and the truth?
About 1 year...
Demonstrably false; 911, moon landing, US election...
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What's the difference between conspiracy theories and the truth?
About 1 year...
Demonstrably false; 911, moon landing, US election...
Echo chamber alert...
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Ivermectin is not an antiviral. After the discovery of antibiotics there was great hope that antivirals would soon follow, this hope was not realised. The reason is that bacteria have their own unique metabolism and viruses have virtually no intrinsic metabolism(they hijack our cells and reprogram them to make virions). One can fairly easily produce compounds that interfere with processes in bacteria without collateral host damage although resistance is a major problem. With viruses the problem is that most compound inhibiting viral reproduction also damage host cells.Most antivirals are "bogus" nucleotides or nucleosides that are incorporated into the virus but not the host cell and these took decades of research to develop and are based on subtle differences between viral reproduction and normal cell activity. There are many substances that will inactivate viruses in the lab buy cannot be used on humans. Sulphuric acid would make a good antiviral BUT DEFINITELY NOT A MEDICINE!
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We recently had a national election in Australia, and party had a policy that included permission to use ivermectin for COVID (among other things). In my state, they received 0.03% of the vote...
The figurehead of another party imported $1M of ivermectin. He had to destroy it, as ivermectin can only be distributed by doctors, for proven conditions like intestinal parasites. They got 0.25% of the votes.
My guess is that almost half of the US population would approve of ivermectin.