Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: thebrain13 on 15/03/2022 22:35:16

Title: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 15/03/2022 22:35:16
I feel like having some fun here. Einstein said he has one perhaps two very good ideas. I've been a gigantic Einstein fan for a long time. In my opinion he is thinking way farther over peoples heads even today and most people have no idea what he's talking about because they don't read him and invent themselves.

What were his 1 or 2 ideas? If it is one idea the answer is that everything is made of fields. If it is two ideas, it's that everything is made of fields and everything has its own independent relationship with everything else. (relativity)

They are both incredibly deep and it is my strong opinion that the vast majority of physicists today have an often ironically bastardized version of both concepts. My proof is that I bet you I could figure out a "new" theory that your grandmother would understand that is logically consistent for just about anything you could ask me and I'll only use three ideas to do it.

Einstein's fields, Einstein's relativity and the Universal Principle which is my own.

The Universal Principle means the reason for WHY any "law" of physics should exist is always the same, it's like evolution, whatever is the best at replicating itself will exist.

I'll give you my first example. A snowflake.

How can such dramatic unique shapes form out of random water molecules bonding together? How can what happens on one side of a snowflake affect the other? Why should it form sharp edges? Why are snowflakes so unique from one another if every molecule is identical to every other? Shouldn't the natural rules of science and probability lead to some sort of spherical potato shape like hail?

First off the bat, fields. In as unambiguous terms as possible the concept that everything is a fundamental particle is a lie. It's a white lie we tell students and physics undergrads to help them understand better. Fields are complex messy and they form into particles. This is exactly how Einstein describes things and how he would describe the equivalence of mass and energy. We call particles matter and fields energy, but the difference between the two is "quantitative" not qualitative. A particle is simply an area where the field is very strong. High level modern physicists know this but most never transcend the everything is a particle mental framework. I'd recommend watching "The Real Building Blocks of the Universe" from the theoretical physicist David Tong of Cambridge. Quantum Field Theory breaks this persistent myth of "everything is particle".

Becoming proficient in thinking about the nature of fields was a super power for Einstein and we can use it for snowflakes as well. School teaches us how to limit our framework to simple particles and forces but reality is not that simple. If you use that framework on a snowflake you are dead in the water. Identical independently moving objects should not form complex unique macrostructures with sharp edges.

What about fields though? You see, even though the particles are governed by simpler rules, the fields between the particles can be different. Instead of thinking about the problem with only particles and bonds. Think about it in terms of particles(molecules), bonds and fields. If you "need" a particle only mental vision, picture particles, bonds and unique photons bouncing between the crystal structure.

As is always the case in academia math is pretty much always stressed over a true understanding. (a fact I always hated as a physics major), but particles have a way of replicating themselves in proximity to energy. Photons stimulate the creation of other like photons in lasers (stimulated emission) in addition to particles like electrons increase the odds energy/fields will form into them in the proximity of energy in a particle accelerator. This is certainly a good example of the Universal Principle. Particles and fields (same thing different language) replicate.

This means, if you have a certain field between a particle bond in a snowflake that field can impact the nature of what the field becomes in the adjacent bond and on and on, until the whole snowflake is controlled by one standard field. The net affect of this is that the whole snowflake takes on essentially one unified form, the snowflake.

We can further this line of reasoning and ask well why a sharp edged unique structure with six sides. The six sides is simple because that is the repeated structure of the water molecule, everybody knows that. Since it is the same structure rotated every 60 degrees, the same field could spread to 6 wings of the snowflake. Why unique shapes with sharp edges? Think about this the way you would think about evolution. A field or photon could maximize the chances of its recreation if it could form the snowflake into shapes and qualities that make it more likely that another photon could not infiltrate its bonds. Perhaps it works like stealth. The U.S. builds stealth battleships and stealth bombers with sharp flat edges to avoid detection from radar ie. photons.

A snowflake could simply be the structure that makes it the most difficult for other photons to find and infiltrate for their own purposes. Sharp edges help, being translucent helps, and being unique helps as well.

And there you have it. I didn't use relativity, just fields and my evolution like Universal Principle.

Regardless of what you might think, I bet I could play this game with anything. The "trick" is I'm a lifelong aspiring physics theorist and I know people don't understand the meat and potatoes of Einstein. Pretty much anything in 2022 vernacular that is a real Einstein thought looks like a new theory to others.

I challenge the forum, to pick anything in physics I can't explain in a simple "why" language. (not a math contest, my physics major was enough). The only rules are to be respectful and pick something most people know about. People don't have answers for even basic things like, why do objects travel in straight lines and the constancy of the speed of light. I'll answer the first 4 people who ask questions. Let me show you what, "if you can't explain it to your grandmother you don't understand it really means." In my eyes, my "new theories" are Einstein in most of yours their new theories.

One last note, I was a physics major and was truly driven in being the best at it for a long time but I only do physics for fun now. I have a new theory of genetics, cancer and evolution which focuses on how life uses fields. I think these Einstein visuals are going to prove priceless in a new understanding of evolution. For instance, if you asked why is DNA a double Helix using those three theories. I'd say because there are 3 shapes of an E.M. wave and one of them is a double helix, a circularly polarized electromagnetic field. Picture a normal linear polarized wave like in text books and twist it. That's it. Does this sound like a coincidence? If you think so, I'm writing a book detailing about a few 100 more ultra specific "coincidences" like DNA is also a crystal, discovered via crystallography. My model for the snowflake works just like my model for genetics, its not just the bonds that matter to a complete understanding, its the fields within DNA that matters. That's why I picked the snowflake first. Any question about genetics is fair game as well, I'll put together a visual for how fields run the show just like physics.
 
Just be kind, be simple, attack ideas not people or I'll just leave. I'm trying to cure cancer not get in a pissing match with some random dude on the internet.

 









Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: alancalverd on 15/03/2022 23:38:18
Power to your elbow as you work to cure cancer, but you would do well to review your physics course notes. 

Alas, DNA is not a crystal, nor was it discovered by crystallography. It was discovered in 1869 by wet chemistry, and its structure was elucidated in 1953 via a crystallographic technique of x-ray fibre diffraction - "sort-of crystalline" but not a 3-D ordered solid.

And sadly, the bond angle of the water molecule is not 120°, to fit your snowflake hypothesis, but 104.5°, which doesn't confer hexagonal symmetry on anything.

Best wishes for the scientific journey, but be sure of your starting point!
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 16/03/2022 00:14:30
Come on man. Semantics much? I have always heard DNA was a crystal, but even if it wasn't like you say, the whole premise is that repetitive structures play a role in fields which it obviously has regardless of whether you want to call it a crystal or not.

The "structure" of DNA was discovered from diffraction patterns via crystallography. It demonstrated optical interference patterns like a crystal. Why are you quoting the original isolation of DNA when the premise is about its shape?

Lastly, why are you quoting the angle of electrons from one another in a single water molecule? 104.5. Completely irrelevant. Once it is formed into ice, which is what I was talking about it forms sharp 60 degree angles. Are you honestly trying to find the truth?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/03/2022 11:27:44
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 17/03/2022 09:47:55
I challenge the forum, to pick anything in physics I can't explain in a simple "why" language. (not a math contest, my physics major was enough). The only rules are to be respectful and pick something most people know about. People don't have answers for even basic things like, why do objects travel in straight lines and the constancy of the speed of light. I'll answer the first 4 people who ask questions. Let me show you what, "if you can't explain it to your grandmother you don't understand it really means." In my eyes, my "new theories" are Einstein in most of yours their new theories.
What's temperature? What makes thermal radiation different than other kinds of electromagnetic radiation, such as near field, radio wave, or light from plasma or fluorescence?
You can answer them here
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 17/03/2022 12:31:24
You can answer them here, or alternatively, post your answers in my thread.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=80604.0
Seriously?  You hijack the thread and then try to direct readers to your own thread.  Very rude, reported.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/03/2022 12:57:15
You can answer them here, or alternatively, post your answers in my thread.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=80604.0
Seriously?  You hijack the thread and then try to direct readers to your own thread.  Very rude, reported.
To be fair, the OP asked for it- literally.
I challenge the forum, to pick anything in physics I can't explain in a simple "why" language. (not a math contest, my physics major was enough). The only rules are to be respectful and pick something most people know about.
And "Temperature" is one thing that can be tricky to define.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 17/03/2022 13:14:17
Here's another take on the challenge. How would you explain non-diffractive edge and non-diffractive slit, which I demonstrated in my experiments.
Video #4 : Non-diffractive Obstacle. It shows a case where the edge of an obstacle can block a light beam without producing diffraction pattern. Here the interface between the glass and the air acts as total internal reflector which prevent the light from reaching the area behind the reflector.
Video #13: Non-diffractive slit. Here we put Huygen’s principle as currently accepted explanation for single slit diffraction to the test. To determine whether the space or the edges of the slit as the real interfering point sources, we can conduct an experiment using a slit whose edges are not diffractive. If Huygen’s principle is correct, then we should still get interference pattern even though the edges of the slit doesn’t diffract light.
The rest of the video can be watched here
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 17/03/2022 13:27:48
And one of the most basic question in physics.
Why light change its' speed and direction during refraction?
Spoiler: show
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=77687.0
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: alancalverd on 17/03/2022 14:24:38
Come on man. Semantics much? I have always heard DNA was a crystal, but even if it wasn't like you say, the whole premise is that repetitive structures play a role in fields which it obviously has regardless of whether you want to call it a crystal or not.
But DNA is not repetitive.

Quote
Why are you quoting the original isolation of DNA when the premise is about its shape?
because your post talked about the discovery of DNA, not the interpretation of the gross structure of a single molecule.

Quote
Lastly, why are you quoting the angle of electrons from one another in a single water molecule? 104.5. Completely irrelevant. Once it is formed into ice, which is what I was talking about it forms sharp 60 degree angles.
Because truth matters to me. I am a physicist (ex-crystallographer), not a priest, politician or philosopher. 104.5 degrees is the hydrogen bond angle, not the "angle between electrons".

Quote
In ice, oxygen is tetrahedrally surrounded by four hydrogen atoms with a bond angle 109∘28′
which goes some way to explaining the anomalous density of the ice-1 solid form, but certainly isn't a multiple of 60.

Fact is that the shape of a snowflake is due to macroscopic aerodynamic forces acting on the accretion of microcrystals.

Your misconceptions are quite common but harmless, unless you try to build a scientific edifice on them.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 00:08:53
To be fair, the OP asked for it- literally.
I challenge the forum, to pick anything in physics I can't explain in a simple "why" language. (not a math contest, my physics major was enough). The only rules are to be respectful and pick something most people know about.
And "Temperature" is one thing that can be tricky to define.

[/quote]

I most certainly did literally ask for it. Challenge Accepted. I was starting to think you guys are just chickens. I will answer the first question in regards to temperature. I'm only going to answer one per person and only if it is something a normal science fan would know about which temperature qualifies as such.

Also like I said, I'm only going to use three ideas and I'm going to make it appear like I created a brand new theory with them. Fields, Relativity and my Universal Principle.

First off the bat. Here's a simple yet far reaching idea. I figured this out in middle school. You can tell whether something is exothermic or endothermic with one simple idea. Does it involve something moving closer together? Or does it involve something moving further away? Any experiment where masses move together is exothermic, and any experiment where masses move apart is endothermic.

There are many examples of this and I never missed a problem about exothermic vs. endothermic in physics chemistry highschool etc. just with this one little idea. Evaporation is endothermic as water may leave the skin. Condensation as water condenses on you is exothermic. Same pattern holds true for all phase changes.

Ideal gas law. Condense the gas, create heat. Spread it out reduce heat.

Collisions. If a billiard ball bounces off it is cooler than if it sticks together.

In chemistry if two molecules bond, its always exothermic and if they break apart its always endothermic. 0 exceptions to this rule which is pretty rare for chemistry.

What may appear to be an obvious exception to the rule could be nuclear fission. This seems to contradict the concept as it breaks apart yet releases heat. However, there is such thing as nuclear binding energy and there is a correlation between how tight a nucleus is packed and the energy that is released. Elements that are radioactive like Uranium are more loosely packed then what they may fission into. Essentially a million penguins may in general be warmer than a 1000 penguins in the winter, but not if the million are social distancing and the 1000 are shoulder to shoulder.

Why does this work and how can we use fields to explain it? Well like I said let's talk about Einstein's vision of FIELDS and particles. He envisioned fields as spread out matter and matter as condensed fields. However this is still a work in progress, but we might have some questions for Einstein if we are going to assume that fields can be condensed into particles of quantized mass.

Or to put it in Einstein's words on page 243 of the book the Evolution of Physics written by Einstein and Leopold Infeld.

"Our ultimate problem would be to modify our field laws in such a way that they would not break down for regions in which the energy is enormously concentrated."

I will reiterate the concept that we don't yet have all of the rules of how fields become and act in supposedly "fundamental" particles, but we may suggest one simple little idea here. There must be some sort of force or limit to how much mass/field can be condensed into a particle or else the particle wouldn't have quantized mass, it could be anything.

Perhaps when two particles move closer together they "bleed out" their mass/energy/field. There is your new theory of what heat is, it's smaller bits of field that have no home. When things move closer it bleeds out the field, and when they move further away it sucks up more field. This is why Exothermic reactions tend to be much stronger in magnitude because it is easier to scramble an egg than to unscramble one. It's harder to gather field than it is to release the field within.

The more excess "field" beyond its quantum limit the higher the temperature, the less there is, the lower it's temperature.

Most of us know the technical definition of heat as the average kinetic energy. It is certainly well founded the connection between motion and heat. Perhaps the reason for this perpetual motion is the left overs from the transfer of fields and energy between particles.

And there you have it, a field concept theory you've never heard before that seems to makes sense yet is explaining something people "think" they understand. I'll answer follow ups, but I'd rather limit one question per person. I didn't need to talk about relativity yet, but fields is the true fundamentals of Einstein's relativity. I'm really just interested in proving a point for fun. People don't get Einstein, its a skill that takes years/decades to develop and what your average academic/person thinks he's talking about is just group thinked word salad to me.







Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 18/03/2022 02:17:53
First off the bat. Here's a simple yet far reaching idea. I figured this out in middle school. You can tell whether something is exothermic or endothermic with one simple idea. Does it involve something moving closer together? Or does it involve something moving further away? Any experiment where masses move together is exothermic, and any experiment where masses move apart is endothermic.
Is exploding grenade endothermic? Or is it exothermic?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 03:30:04
An exploding grenade is exothermic. But the cause of its explosion and the release of heat is molecules bonding together. Short distances overpower macroscopic changes. you could try to formulize the rule like power is governed by mass/ change in distance. It's not a perfect math equation in terms of calculating power as packing and unpacking fields is not equal, although it does answer questions like why nuclear is so powerful as it's changing distances on the scale of the nucleus which mathematically should be much greater than changing larger distances like in the case of chemical bonds. but the concept will hold at least in terms of determining endothermic vs. exothermic.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 18/03/2022 05:03:12
why nuclear is so powerful as it's changing distances on the scale of the nucleus which mathematically should be much greater than changing larger distances like in the case of chemical bonds.
I don't know how to interpret the phrase I put in bold above. 
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 18/03/2022 05:11:38
Also like I said, I'm only going to use three ideas and I'm going to make it appear like I created a brand new theory with them. Fields, Relativity and my Universal Principle.
It's okay if your theory doesn't cover some known experimental results. But it's not okay if your theory leads to predictions contrary to experimental results. Except if you can show one or more significant flaws in how the experiments were conducted. 
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 18/03/2022 05:24:23
Ideal gas law. Condense the gas, create heat. Spread it out reduce heat.
Ideal gas law says PV=nRT.
In isothermal process of ideal gas,  change in pressure is inversely proportional to change in volume,  with no change of internal energy.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/03/2022 13:15:39
Condensation as water condenses on you is exothermic.
Not necessarily.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 18/03/2022 13:56:47
I most certainly did literally ask for it. Challenge Accepted. I was starting to think you guys are just chickens.
That seems like a strange thing to say considering your explanation for the first example, the snow flake, was shown to be incorrect.
In chemistry if two molecules bond, its always exothermic and if they break apart its always endothermic. 0 exceptions to this rule which is pretty rare for chemistry.
Yep. That is well known.
What may appear to be an obvious exception to the rule could be nuclear fission.
I would not try to extend the rule for chemistry to nuclear physics.  For instance the fusion of elements into a product smaller than iron release energy but products larger than iron absorb energy.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 18/03/2022 14:06:54
Perhaps when two particles move closer together they "bleed out" their mass/energy/field. There is your new theory of what heat is, it's smaller bits of field that have no home.
That is not a theory that is a conjecture.  Heat is bits of fields floating around?  That makes no sense.
When things move closer it bleeds out the field, and when they move further away it sucks up more field.
That doesn't make any sense based on what we currently understand.  How could a particle "suck up a field", what does that even mean?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 17:11:34
Condensation as water condenses on you is exothermic.
Not necessarily.
Can you elaborate on that. Condensation is exothermic as far as I'm aware. Is there some special case it is not?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 17:14:35
It is my STRONG opinion that my concept for a snowflake was not even remotely addressed based on what I wrote. To me it looked like an intellectual, let's call it measuring contest based purely on semantics. Unless you are trying to tell me snowflakes have 3 and a smidge sides or they don't have repetitive shapes, you have no point.

Again the whole premise is that if the same shape that a feedback pattern can emerge within the bonds. Being the "same" does not mean in every sense of the word "same". It can simply mean two bonds near each other have the same nanometer length repeated a number of times, doesn't even have to be every time. DNA and snowflakes DEFINITELY qualify as such.

If you have the same quantum length or shape, then a runaway feedback pattern can emerge creating dynamic patterns. You can not figure out everything about the shape of a snowflake with aerodynamics, temperature etc. Nonsense. Maybe you can find correlations but definitely not everything.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 18/03/2022 17:20:57
Unless you are trying to tell me snowflakes have 3 and a smidge sides or they don't have repetitive shapes.
No, I am just saying that your explanation didn't make sense and the mainstream explanation does make sense.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 19:14:16
Perhaps when two particles move closer together they "bleed out" their mass/energy/field. There is your new theory of what heat is, it's smaller bits of field that have no home.
That is not a theory that is a conjecture.  Heat is bits of fields floating around?  That makes no sense.
When things move closer it bleeds out the field, and when they move further away it sucks up more field.
That doesn't make any sense based on what we currently understand.  How could a particle "suck up a field", what does that even mean?
Perhaps when two particles move closer together they "bleed out" their mass/energy/field. There is your new theory of what heat is, it's smaller bits of field that have no home.
That is not a theory that is a conjecture.  Heat is bits of fields floating around?  That makes no sense.
When things move closer it bleeds out the field, and when they move further away it sucks up more field.
That doesn't make any sense based on what we currently understand.  How could a particle "suck up a field", what does that even mean?

I'm WELL aware of the fact that the mental machinery in ones mind is particles zooming around. It's easy to get people to think that even as kids, and it mimics our math the best, it's the collective bias of the average thinker/student/professor. It turns out saying the stupidest thing in the world in math looks smarter than the smartest thing said in plain simple english. I'm telling you though, when it comes to the true greats there is a whole other level of thinking that is not particles driven and Einstein was the original master of it. I also swear by it because of how effective it's been for creating and understanding new concepts.

Let's be real hear, do you think any of you could come up with a plausible sounding new concept for anything somebody asks you? Do you have any idea what it actually takes to be able to do that?

"oh but it's not proven dee...dee...dee...dee"

Okay, let's see you come up with a "novel" theory for anything people know about in simple words that doesn't seem ten times more ridiculous or circular than what I did. That's probably just as hard as coming up with a real theory!

Lastly this is very important. Yes people have a knee jerk reaction if they are forced to go against what they have "learned" that particles are the fundamental underpinnings of everything, but the counter theory to particles is fields. fields are a spread out swamp of energy/mass that comes together and forms a particle.

Here is an excerpt from Einstein in the book the Evolution of Physics. page 242.

-Einstein- "We cannot build physics on the basis of the matter-concept alone. But the division into matter and field is, after the recognition of the equivalence of mass and energy, something artificial and not clearly defined. Could we not reject the concept of matter and build a pure field physics? What impresses our senses as matter is really a great concentration of energy into a comparatively small space. We could regard matter as the regions in space where the field is extremely strong. In this way a new philosophical background could be created. Its final aim would be the explanation of all events in nature by structure laws valid always and everywhere. A thrown stone is, from this point of view, a changing field, where the states of greatest field intensity travel through space with the velocity of the stone. There would be no place, in our new physics, for both field and matter, field being the only reality. This new view is suggested by the great achievements  of field physics, by our success in expressing the laws of electricity, magnetism, gravitation in the form of structure laws, and finally by the equivalence of mass and energy. Our ultimate problem would be to modify our field laws in such a way that they would not break down for regions in which the energy is enormously concentrated."

This is what I mean and Einstein means by a field, its just spread out energy/mass. Whatever it is. It's okay to consider that there are things smaller than atoms. Whenever the field leaves mass, we simply call it energy. But you must recognize, Einstein has a visual just like I do that we use over and over and over and over. I continually did this over decades. The proof is simple, ask me anything and I'll put together a whole new concept for it.




Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 19:17:29
Unless you are trying to tell me snowflakes have 3 and a smidge sides or they don't have repetitive shapes.
No, I am just saying that your explanation didn't make sense and the mainstream explanation does make sense.
There is no mainstream interpretation of how a snowflake works. There is a mainstream political and social belief that scientists "know" everything though. Why doesn't my explanation make sense to you, seriously? Is it because you don't believe fields exist?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 20:41:45
why nuclear is so powerful as it's changing distances on the scale of the nucleus which mathematically should be much greater than changing larger distances like in the case of chemical bonds.
I don't know how to interpret the phrase I put in bold above. 

The concept for how much heat is created could be best approximated by how gravity changes with proximity to mass. As gravity follows the inverse square law the magnitude of heat can change the same way with proximity.

For instance, let's say an object releases a certain amount of heat as it travels a mile towards the center of the earth on the surface. Say it is 1 joule. If you squished the earth to half its radius, and then traversed a mile it would be 4 joules.

I'm not interested in formalizing math here but simply explaining the concept. The point here is that there must be some "hidden variable(s)" that causes a limit to how dense a field can be packed into a particle or else particles wouldn't have quantized mass.

This leads to the reasonable hypothesis that some type of force may cause mass to be ejected in close proximity to other mass. I pointed this out in many ways by showing that what creates or uses can be approximated just by asking if things get further or closer.

I didn't explain previously but we could further the connection by showing that for the most part most objects expand in the presence of heat, electrons jump orbitals etc.

Another way to look at it would be that if you had enough power and squished a proton together with another forcing them to have the same space that as the denominator in distance goes to zero the release of mass is infinite, but obviously limited to the amount of energy of one of the protons.

I'm not saying we have examples of that, but that is the concept.

Nuclear fission does not violate the rule if the nucleus is proportionate to nuclear binding energy. Even if something is moving away, it can be over powered by the individual groups condensing. Same could be said for a ice. The ice as a whole may become larger but the individual atoms may be closer due to the individual contributions of the nearest molecules they are binding to. Long story short changes in distance that are closer overpower changes that happen further away.






Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 18/03/2022 21:58:09
Let's be real hear, do you think any of you could come up with a plausible sounding new concept for anything somebody asks you? Do you have any idea what it actually takes to be able to do that?

"oh but it's not proven dee...dee...dee...dee"
I think it is easy to make stuff up.  I'm sure your ideas make perfect sense to you, but that is because your ideas are based on your level of understanding of physics.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 18/03/2022 22:08:37
There is no mainstream interpretation of how a snowflake works.
That is false.
There is a mainstream political and social belief that scientists "know" everything though.
I am not aware of anyone who thinks that.
Why doesn't my explanation make sense to you, seriously? Is it because you don't believe fields exist?
Actually, I agree with Quantum Field Theory, what I don't agree with is your ideas of how fields operate.  Your statement that temperature is bits of fields or something is absurd.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 18/03/2022 23:31:01
Let's be real hear, do you think any of you could come up with a plausible sounding new concept for anything somebody asks you? Do you have any idea what it actually takes to be able to do that?

"oh but it's not proven dee...dee...dee...dee"
I think it is easy to make stuff up.  I'm sure your ideas make perfect sense to you, but that is because your ideas are based on your level of understanding of physics.

It's so easy right to come up with new theories? Just like you said.

I formally challenge you Origin to my own "easy" game.

Why does time dilation exist?

Make sure it's in plain simple English, and make sure it seems like it makes sense in spite of saying only a unique concept. Expect follow up questions to your answers.

I'll even make it easier on you, I won't use semantics, and ill try to understand you, and your not even being held to using only three ideas to do it, like me, you can just do whatever you want.

I could give you a hint, you don't have to use any math, just talk us through time and velocity and gravity logically. But if you wanted an edgier simpler math equation you can use this one. The derivative of arc sin expressed from 0 to the speed of light in the correct interval equals time dilation due to velocity, and the derivative of arc sin expressed from 0 to the escape velocity of light equals the gravitational time dilation. Of course, those are my equations designed only for "my level" of understanding. It's clear "your level" of understanding is much greater and this should be easy like you said. No need for math though.











Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: alancalverd on 18/03/2022 23:48:32
An exploding grenade is exothermic. But the cause of its explosion and the release of heat is molecules bonding together.
Let's consider the explosion of TNT
2 C 7 H 5 N 3 O 6 → 3 N 2 + 5 H 2 + 12 CO + 2 C
Looks very much a molecule coming apart, to me. We start with two molecules of a solid and end up with 22 gas molecules plus a lot of heat. And the "two solids" isn't an essential "coming together", it's just a mathematical convention to avoid having 1.5 nitrogen molecules on the other side.

It is true that  most of the endothermic processes demonstrated in school laboratories  involve the dispersion of crystalline salts (e.g. NH4Cl) in a solvent (H2O) but doing the same thing with NaOH is exothermic.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: alancalverd on 18/03/2022 23:52:27
Why does time dilation exist?
According to Einstein, simply because c is a constant. I'm sure you have read the book.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 18/03/2022 23:54:01
It's so easy right to come up with new theories? Just like you said.

I formally challenge you Origin to my own "easy" game.

Why does time dilation exist?

Make sure it's in plain simple English, and #make sure it seems like it makes sense in spite of saying only a unique concept.
That's the problem right there.  Your unique concept doesn't make sense.  Time dilation has a robust theory, if I make something up it will be as nonsensical as yours. 
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 00:02:15
It's so easy right to come up with new theories? Just like you said.

I formally challenge you Origin to my own "easy" game.

Why does time dilation exist?

Make sure it's in plain simple English, and #make sure it seems like it makes sense in spite of saying only a unique concept.
That's the problem right there.  Your unique concept doesn't make sense.  Time dilation has a robust theory, if I make something up it will be as nonsensical as yours. 
Or just admit you can't do it. I can do it
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: alancalverd on 19/03/2022 00:02:22
Most of us know the technical definition of heat as the average kinetic energy.
A sad reflection on the general quality of physics teaching, but certainly a common misconception.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 00:08:18
An exploding grenade is exothermic. But the cause of its explosion and the release of heat is molecules bonding together.
Let's consider the explosion of TNT
2 C 7 H 5 N 3 O 6 → 3 N 2 + 5 H 2 + 12 CO + 2 C
Looks very much a molecule coming apart, to me. We start with two molecules of a solid and end up with 22 gas molecules plus a lot of heat. And the "two solids" isn't an essential "coming together", it's just a mathematical convention to avoid having 1.5 nitrogen molecules on the other side.

It is true that  most of the endothermic processes demonstrated in school laboratories  involve the dispersion of crystalline salts (e.g. NH4Cl) in a solvent (H2O) but doing the same thing with NaOH is exothermic.
If you think about the concept of the theory, a complex chemical reaction will bias exothermic. Imagine  a negatively charged ball, with positive charged balls stuck to it in a large space. If you switch the charge it flies everywhere. If you switch it back it does not return as easily. This is just a cuter example of the same thing I've already said multiple times. Stronger bonds can over power weaker one especially in the exothermic direction.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 00:55:25
There is no mainstream interpretation of how a snowflake works.
That is false.
There is a mainstream political and social belief that scientists "know" everything though.
I am not aware of anyone who thinks that.
Why doesn't my explanation make sense to you, seriously? Is it because you don't believe fields exist?
Actually, I agree with Quantum Field Theory, what I don't agree with is your ideas of how fields operate.  Your statement that temperature is bits of fields or something is absurd.

The fact that you don't think anybody has political and social biases in science, tells me everything I need to know about your ability to criticize science, not that I couldn't already deduce it myself.

Let's talk about this "absurd" notion of heat as a fluid like field substance. Just a non-sensical idea.

Let's quote the absurd concepts of heat as fluid from the non-sensical looney theorist Albert Einstein. Page 77 of the same book, the evolution of physics by Einstein under the chapter decline of the mechanical view where he makes an analogy between the "flow" of heat and the "flow" of electric charge.

He writes
 "Electric Potential>>>>Temperature
 Electric charge>>>>Heat"

"Two conductors, for example two spheres of different size, may have the same electric charge, that is the same excess of one electric fluid, but the potential will be different in the two cases, being higher for the smaller and lower for the larger sphere. The electric fluid will have greater density and thus be more compressed on the small conductor. Since the repulsive forces must increase with the density, the tendency of the charge to escape will be greater in the case of the smaller sphere than in that of the larger."

(Funny, that sounds like my non-sensical concept, an inner force from the charge increases when you shrink the size of the container, increasing its tendency to escape. And might I remind you electric charge is being compared to heat, heat escapes more when the container is shrunk.)

He continues the analogy....

"This tendency of charge to escape from a conductor is a direct measure of its potential. In order to show clearly the difference between charge and potential we shall formulate a few sentences describing the behavior of heated bodies, and the corresponding sentences concerning charged conductors. "

From here he has two columns directly comparing Electricity and Heat.

"Heat: Two bodies, initially at different temperatures, reach the same temperature after some time if brought into contact.
Electricity: Two insulated conductors initially at different electric potentials, very quickly reach the same potential if brought into contact.
Heat: Equal quantities of heat produce different changes of temperature in two bodies if their heat capacities are different.
Electricity: Equal amounts of electric charge produce different changes of electric potential in two bodies if their electrical capacities are different.
Heat: A thermometer in contact with a body indicates by the length of its own mercury column its own temperature therefore the temperature of the body.
Electricity: An electroscope in contact with a conductor indicates by the separation of the gold leaves its own electric potential and therefore the electric potential of the conductor."

I guess its cool if Einstein says it, but if I do its just nonsense? I said the same things. Heat flowing from body to body from something analogous to charge due to shrinking of size. He also examines the connection between this "charge like concept" and the expansion via the mercury column. I wish I had your guys intuition though instead of these nonsense Einstein field concepts.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/03/2022 01:00:43
The concept for how much heat is created could be best approximated by how gravity changes with proximity to mass.
Chemical reactions (like the decomposition of TNT) are based on the electromagnetic forces within molecules.
These are about 37 orders of magnitude (100000000000000000000000000000000000000) times bigger than the gravitational effects.

Are you aiming to claim the prize for "wrongest thing said on the site"?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/03/2022 01:07:27
It's so easy right to come up with new theories?
No
You need to look at what the word means.
"A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. "
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

It is difficult to come up with valid theories.
But it is easy to come up with tripe.

You have done the easy thing, but are trying to seek credit for the difficult thing.

Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/03/2022 01:09:59
The fact that you don't think anybody has political and social biases in science,
That's not a "fact" it's just dross you made up.

Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 01:52:38
The concept for how much heat is created could be best approximated by how gravity changes with proximity to mass.
Chemical reactions (like the decomposition of TNT) are based on the electromagnetic forces within molecules.
These are about 37 orders of magnitude (100000000000000000000000000000000000000) times bigger than the gravitational effects.

Are you aiming to claim the prize for "wrongest thing said on the site"?
I never heard the diatribe that electromagnetism is orders of magnitude stronger than the gravitational force. Oh wait yes I did.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 01:53:32
It's so easy right to come up with new theories?
No
You need to look at what the word means.
"A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. "
From
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

It is difficult to come up with valid theories.
But it is easy to come up with tripe.

You have done the easy thing, but are trying to seek credit for the difficult thing.


I've never heard the diatribe of the difference between a theory and hypothesis. Oh wait yes I did.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 01:56:10
The fact that you don't think anybody has political and social biases in science,
That's not a "fact" it's just dross you made up.


Dude you're totally right boredchemist. Politics and social standings have nothing to do with science. Science has totally persevered over the natural biases of mankind because of like the scientific method or something.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 02:08:49
Do you guys know anything I don't know? It's clear you have no ability to synthesize or judge new theories. Sorry for interrupting your afternoon tea of condescending to people who actually have the guts and heart to make new theories and put them out there. To me you guys are just bullies and you deserve to get a taste of your own medicine. I miss guys like Soul Surfer as I used to talk about science mostly when I was young on this site. He could disagree while showing compassion and actually respond to what you are trying to say, not just look for gotcha moments. He actually makes theories, and had compassion for the process, that's why he was so good. And for the record, I will always write theories because I'm not pretentious. I will only condescend if you start it.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/03/2022 11:48:31
Do you guys know anything I don't know?
Apparently.
It's clear you have no ability to synthesize or judge new theories.
We know exactly how to make that judgement.
If the new "idea" contradicts reality then it isn't a theory- it's just wrong.

I never heard the diatribe that electromagnetism is orders of magnitude stronger than the gravitational force. Oh wait yes I did.
So, why are you ignoring the fact?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 19/03/2022 16:43:55
This is what I mean and Einstein means by a field, its just spread out energy/mass. Whatever it is.
How does the field create electric charges?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 21:22:54
This is what I mean and Einstein means by a field, its just spread out energy/mass. Whatever it is.
How does the field create electric charges?
Thank you Hamdamni for actually asking questions about things I actually said. It's not exactly accurate to say that fields create electric charges, but it is meant more as an analogy. I'm suggesting that if the idea (that there are fields undercutting and forming into particles) is true like Einstein visualized with the equivalence of mass and energy then there must be something keeping the masses relatively steady, that's not exactly the same as electric force, but it worked with Einstein's analogy.

What is it exactly is a super loaded question. In order to think like this you need to abandon the notion that we know everything about physics, we are not even close. It's an illusion, never obvious to the people living through it, always obvious to the people who come after.

In school, teachers say this is how everything acts, this math equation. The students memorize that equation and believe with no doubt in their minds that everything works exactly like that. In real life science is much messier and not everything follows neat simple math equations. If you deviate from that mentality you will probably hate it and pay for it on the exam. Anybody less than excellent at math would get weeded out of a physics education. Physics for the vast majority is a math major with physics sounding story problems.

Einstein is totally different, he takes shots at an over-reliance of math repeatedly, and is deeply critical of this style of thinking. He has a vision that everything is a fields and was wildly more successful doing it than anybody else. I think as Einstein suggested there may be a way to build a physics using fields only. I don't think this will ever be mainstream because  although I'm not sure, not because it's not true but because it takes too much work to be able to begin using that logic and people will laugh at you for a very long time before you have an opportunity to put it to use people won't make that choice. 

Really what I wanted to demonstrate here is there is a messier more realistic framework for viewing things Einstein put to use and I use for everything as well, at least mentally in structuring my theories. When I think and, I structure everything into these field concepts and think about everything that way to the best of my ability. When the exam comes, I reconvert my field concepts into particle concepts because I know that's the only thing they will accept. I can come up with something new no matter what you say because I already put the work in tirelessly over decades to be able to do that. It takes all of your efforts to pull off. My doubters have no ability to be flexible with their concepts because they have never done anything like that.

I use these ideas only to be able to invent, I don't give a **** whether somebody likes it or not, it's a waste of time. If they are flexible enough to get it, I will mention that I have a group of biologists from different fields if you'd like to watch me put together a new theory of genetics over zoom, I'll show you whatever you want to know. I moved to the bay area, I was thinking about maybe going to Cambridge or Stanford as well. My therapist suggested Cambridge because of the personal tutors and ability to kind of do what you want which I love.

I'll answer another question for you since like I said, these other guys are chicken.

First off I have three ideas I will use. Fields, Relativity and my Universal Principle.

A good standard for "why" according to the Universal Principle is always the same. It says everything is a feedback pattern of some sort, Identify it and that's a good answer.

This "force" is not really a force it's two different forces pushing against each other.

Like the Countries have rules that best describe the actions of countries, there are also bound to the aggregate of the wills of the people.

I look at wave-particle duality like this. There's things governing the nature of the fields giving particles wave like characteristics, and there's things governing particles giving them quantum like characteristics. If you can combine both you have a more complete view. Never complete, that's arrogance, but you are likely closer to the truth than if you only use one.

Quick answer cause I got to leave soon and am writing quickly. A particle "pulls" fields together to make more particles, just like life "pulls" together energy and water and so forth to create more life. Fields on the other hand may not want to be confined and I would say they may maintain a desire to leave if they are being condensed too much. Where the rubber meets the road of these two "forces" may control how much mass a particle has. The desire to leave is proportionate in strength to the escape velocity and this is where time dilation comes from in G.R.!!!

So what the hell?!?!

Remember when I pointed out earlier to that challenge Origin dodged that you can plug in the escape velocity to the derivative of arcsin to get the exact math for G.R. and likewise velocity to S.R.?

The reason this works may be a clue to this "force" that stops things from being too dense.

I'm going quick, I'll follow it up more. But I think that time is just a reflection of what objects are interacting with. Motion is simply an object absorbing the same coordinates of more objects/masses further away.

I'm going to suggest that in order to move in any direction in relation to others means that you are interacting asymmetrically with that direction.

This means the faster I travel the more I am also interacting with objects that view me in the past. This creates an inevitable connection between velocity and time.

Where the derivative of arcsin comes into play is that time does not always flow linearly away in each direction. I'm sure Ill get *hit for it but picture this.

The enigmatic great attractor somehow gets enormous amounts of galaxies to flow towards it. Look up Laniakea to see our own. How does it do this and why?

I'll suggest gravity.

I'd like to note a concept of relativity and gravity that "objects will flow in the direction time is the least".

If you look at a picture of Laniakea and the other galaxy superclusters you realize galaxies don't just flow directly towards the great attractor, they take a circular path. The flow seems more like a magnetic field flow. If you were at the north side of a magnet the field lines are all traveling directly away from you, but as you travel further they tend to bend over become perpendicular and eventually flow the other way.

What if we suggested that just like the flow of the galaxies in superclusters that time also took a curved path.

We could represent this like a clock hand.

Imagine the clock hand at nine o'clock to twelve oclock.

We could suggest that on ultra far distances that time is oriented the same way. Just like the numbers of the clock bend circularly so may timelines at further distances.

Now picture this, take your finger and move it straight up and imagine that the tip of the clock hand stays at the same height as the tip of your finger. When you are around nine o'clock the clock hand will move as fast as your finger, but as you get closer and closer to 12 it will speed up to infinity.

How can we represent how fast the arrow changes in response to your finger? That's exactly modeled by the derivative of arcsin. The derivative of arcsin is a measure of how the angle changes with respect to a change in y.

We can now say, if time is governed by what you are interacting with the speed of light is the point where the curvature becomes infinite. The speed of light is where the average interactions of the field reaches the 12 hand.

As far as general relativity. We could suggest that the strategy of fields from the Universal Principle perspective is that fields will tend to interact with objects more and more in further distances as a relation with their escape velocity. With more gravity they interact further away. The point where escape velocity reaches the speed of light is where the interaction reaches the 12 hand.

This is why you can plug in escape velocity to 'arcsin for G.R. time dilation and you can plug in velocity to 'arcsin in S.R. to get  the twin paradox version of time dilation.

That's the nature of the "force" you were asking about. Fields don't want to be confined. If things are confined and defined, they get turned into something else and will no longer exist.

Feel free to flame away though guys, the mapping of superclusters is a newer thing, there's no page in Einstein's book where he writes about this when you call me a moron. You're Safe. I'll answer respectful follow ups though.





















Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 19/03/2022 22:26:45
In order to think like this you need to abandon the notion that we know everything about physics, we are not even close. It's an illusion, never obvious to the people living through it, always obvious to the people who come after.
It reminds me of Columbus'egg.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 19/03/2022 23:07:30
In school, teachers say this is how everything acts, this math equation. The students memorize that equation and believe with no doubt in their minds that everything works exactly like that.
LOL, no university physics is not like grade school, you do not memorize math equations that you don't really understand.  In physics classes you derive the equations and then you do experimention to prove to yourself that the equations match experimental data.
In real life science is much messier and not everything follows neat simple math equations.
Translation - you can't understand the math.  There is no doubt in my mind that you could understand the math and physics but that would take time and effort, it is much easier to watch some youtube videos and make up some stuff and try to arm wave your way through it.  You just end up with pseudoscience that way though.
Einstein is totally different, he takes shots at an over-reliance of math repeatedly, and is deeply critical of this style of thinking.
Seriously?  Here is a little secret that's bull crap.  Tell you what, try doing some tensor calculus, which is at the center of General Relativity, and then get back to me.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 19/03/2022 23:31:21
In school, teachers say this is how everything acts, this math equation. The students memorize that equation and believe with no doubt in their minds that everything works exactly like that.
LOL, no university physics is not like grade school, you do not memorize math equations that you don't really understand.  In physics classes you derive the equations and then you do experimention to prove to yourself that the equations match experimental data.
In real life science is much messier and not everything follows neat simple math equations.
Translation - you can't understand the math.  There is no doubt in my mind that you could understand the math and physics but that would take time and effort, it is much easier to watch some youtube videos and make up some stuff and try to arm wave your way through it.  You just end up with pseudoscience that way though.
Einstein is totally different, he takes shots at an over-reliance of math repeatedly, and is deeply critical of this style of thinking.
Seriously?  Here is a little secret that's bull crap.  Tell you what, try doing some tensor calculus, which is at the center of General Relativity, and then get back to me.
Name drops tensor calculus to try to sound smart without explaining anything. Typical. Also, what youtube video did I watch to formulate that calc based math argument? I'd love to know since I invented the whole mathematics of it. It would be fun to find somebody who actually has talent instead of somebody who says "inventings easy" and then wusses out to the challenge.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 20/03/2022 00:16:57
Name drops tensor calculus to try to sound smart without explaining anything.
Name drops?  You made a claim about Einstein and I was refuting that bogus claim, that's all.
I'd love to know since I invented the whole mathematics of it.
Hmmm, I didn't see any math in your posts.
It would be fun to find somebody who actually has talent instead of somebody who says "inventings easy" and then wusses out to the challenge.
I absolutely think it is easy to make up nonsense, your example of temperature being 'pieces of fields' is a case in point.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 20/03/2022 00:51:17
Name drops tensor calculus to try to sound smart without explaining anything.
Name drops?  You made a claim about Einstein and I was refuting that bogus claim, that's all.
I'd love to know since I invented the whole mathematics of it.
Hmmm, I didn't see any math in your posts.
It would be fun to find somebody who actually has talent instead of somebody who says "inventings easy" and then wusses out to the challenge.
I absolutely think it is easy to make up nonsense, your example of temperature being 'pieces of fields' is a case in point.

Did you read my post? DERIVATIVE of arcsin. That's calc buddy.

And what "bogus claim" did I make about Einstein? Because I also remember quoting what page he said it on pretty much everything. And if I didn't I'll do it for you once you tell me this "bogus" claim.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/03/2022 09:53:33
This is why you can plug in escape velocity to 'arcsin for G.R. time dilation and you can plug in velocity to 'arcsin in S.R. to get  the twin paradox version of time dilation.
You didn't talk about the derivatives; you talked about the arcsin itself.
Or are you so good at calculus that you forgot where to put the prime?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 20/03/2022 11:54:08
And if I didn't I'll do it for you once you tell me this "bogus" claim.
This bogus claim.
Einstein is totally different, he takes shots at an over-reliance of math repeatedly,
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 20/03/2022 11:59:40
I'd love to know since I invented the whole mathematics of it.
Could you give an example of the mathematics you invented?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 20/03/2022 17:44:28
This is why you can plug in escape velocity to 'arcsin for G.R. time dilation and you can plug in velocity to 'arcsin in S.R. to get  the twin paradox version of time dilation.
You didn't talk about the derivatives; you talked about the arcsin itself.
Or are you so good at calculus that you forgot where to put the prime?
No, I was talking about the derivative of arcsin the whole time which is 1 over the square root of 1-x^2. Which if you've seen the math of time dilation, you could easily see why that may be relevant.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 20/03/2022 18:20:53
And if I didn't I'll do it for you once you tell me this "bogus" claim.
This bogus claim.
Einstein is totally different, he takes shots at an over-reliance of math repeatedly,

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain they do not refer to reality." -Einstein-

"Fundamental ideas play the most essential role in forming a physical theory. Books on physics are full of complicated mathematical formulae. But though and ideas, not formulae, are the beginning of every physical theory. The ideas must later take the mathematical form of a quantitative theory, to make possible the comparison with experiment." -Einstein-

I should also note, he drops this paragraph on page 277 of his book the evolution of physics directly after explaining Louis de Broglies concept that matter can be waves.

These last two especially sequentially I find more than a little ironic.

"Before relativity there were books full of complicated mathematical formulae about the ether that would make your head hurt"
-Einstein-

"Once mathematicians got a hold of my relativity theory, I know longer understood it." -Einstein-

I understand you guys don't question math or science, it's a political archetype, but I try to spend as much time as possible learning from people who can actually invent. Because that's what I do on a daily basis, pretty much every day of my life. People who actually invent talk very differently about math than people who don't. I feel very strongly about this.

Math is what gives people grades and allows them to claim part of the academic social heirarchy, it's the game we play to decide who gets a degree and who gets weeded out. They do it from grade school and it gets WORSE in college not better. People who benefit from it love it, people who don't hate it.

Most people are not keeping track of where all that math they are learning comes from, not really. It's all about ideas. I don't even feel like debating it anymore, it's clear now this thread is a giant waist of time. I feel foolish for even spending this much time out of my day to respond, as it's blatantly clear, you guys want to "win" the argument and feel smart. You are not even representing what I'm writing even remotely. I doubt you are even reading my posts, cause there is a zero percent chance you could make it through a university with that level of reading comprehension.






Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 20/03/2022 18:58:10
"Before relativity there were books full of complicated mathematical formulae about the ether that would make your head hurt"
-Einstein-

"Once mathematicians got a hold of my relativity theory, I know longer understood it." -Einstein-
OK, he does take shots at math, but the reality is that his mathematical formulation of gravity is extremely difficult and complicated.  Most of his negative comments about math are directed at quantum theory which he never embraced, which was really too bad. 
 
I understand you guys don't question math or science, it's a political archetype,
Huh?
but I try to spend as much time as possible learning from people who can actually invent.
The scientists that I know who invented things and processes used math and math modelling to a high degree.
Because that's what I do on a daily basis, pretty much every day of my life. People who actually invent talk very differently about math than people who don't. I feel very strongly about this.
All you have shown on this site are fantasies that are not science.
Most people are not keeping track of where all that math they are learning comes from, not really. It's all about ideas. I don't even feel like debating it anymore, this thread is a giant waist. I feel foolish for even spending this much time out of my day to respond,
I agree this thread is a waste.
Quote
as it's blatantly clear, you guys want to "win" the argument and feel smart.
No, that is not the issue.  The issue is that this is a science site and when someone starts writing pseudoscience and tries to pass it off as science, it will be challenged, it's that simple.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 20/03/2022 22:00:37
I'm sick of wasting time with you guys. I'm so damn glad I quit physics after my major. I outwork absolutely everybody since I was ten yet get attacked for thinking different, its always been gross to me. I feel bad for the other people you do it to who aren't as good as me though. Luckily people don't do this as much to me in real life. But quick question. If I erase the brain13 profile, will it erase all records of what I wrote? I'd rather they not be on the internet down the line.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/03/2022 22:07:15
If I erase the brain13 profile, will it erase all records of what I wrote? I'd rather they not be on the internet down the line.
Are you not proud of your work?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: thebrain13 on 20/03/2022 23:13:03
I'm literally 100 times more talented right now than any of you three ever were. That is 100 percent the truth. I feel like an idiot ruffling my own feathers trying to show you arm chair theorist hacks how Einstein thinks about anything.

Maybe the thing that pisses me off the most is thinking about me as a younger kid, and all the turmoil a**holes like you put me through gaslighting. Knowing how good I actually am today after fighting the long road of wondering if I should remain alive makes me want to put you in your place, now that I'm 100 times stronger than you. But it's foolish and impossible because you're a giants in your own minds.

You, Origin, Lord Calvert are not better me, not even close. You know NOTHING about me or science, and I see right through your little game even if there are 3 of you that want to play it.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Origin on 20/03/2022 23:55:23
I erase the brain13 profile, will it erase all records of what I wrote?
No, that is not how it works.  You could PM the mods to see if they would delete your threads, but I don't think they'll do that.
I'm literally 100 times more talented right now than any of you three ever were. That is 100 percent the truth.
It is a good thing to have self confidence, but there is nothing wrong with asking questions.
You, Origin, Lord Calvert are not better me,
I whole heartedly agree, I have never even met you and for all I know you may be the finest gentleman that I could ever meet.
You know NOTHING about me
Almost true, all I know about you are the few words you have written on this forum, which is a bit more than nothing, but just a bit.
You know NOTHING about ... science
I have to disagree with that.  I know a fair amount about science.  I am certainly not a scientist or expert and there are many here that have way more knowledge me, but that is part of the fun, I learn new things on this site and others every day.
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/03/2022 09:06:55
I'm literally 100 times more talented right now than any of you three ever were.
So, what have you done?
Thus far, you have shown a "talent" for posting nonsense on line.
Knowing how good I actually am today after fighting the long road of wondering if I should remain alive makes me want to put you in your place, now that I'm 100 times stronger than you. But it's foolish and impossible because you're a giants in your own minds.
No,
It's impossible because you don't know enough.
All of us are willing to learn if someone can actually show that we are wrong.
But you have only shown that you are wrong.
You know NOTHING about me or science,
I get paid to do science; it's unrealistic to claim I have been faking it for 30 years,
I see right through your little game
What game do you imagine is being played?
Title: Re: How a Snowflake Works
Post by: Colin2B on 21/03/2022 23:06:53
This topic has decayed into a slanging match and is no longer a discussion.