Post by: vdblnkr34 on 15/05/2022 14:47:07
Is it safe to transport hydrogen gas compressed into water tank?
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/05/2022 14:49:55
water tanks look something like this.
Most
CWT.JPG (26.66 kB . 683x585 - viewed 3111 times) so I would say probably not.
One possibly useful piece of information is that you almost certainly won't get insurance cover for doing it.
Post by: Origin on 15/05/2022 15:08:13
Is it safe to transport hydrogen gas compressed into water tank?The quick answer is no. Water tanks are not designed to hold compressed hydrogen.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 15/05/2022 15:30:38
Is it safe to transport hydrogen gas compressed into water tank?The quick answer is no. Water tanks are not designed to hold compressed hydrogen.
Oops, sorry. I didn't think to mention that it would be especially designed water tank, to hold huge amount of pressure.
No plastic containers.
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/05/2022 15:34:03
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/05/2022 15:36:39
No plastic containers.High pressure hydrogen tanks are sometimes made from glass reinforced plastic.
They are less dangerous in the event of a fire.
When the plastic gets got it softens and is forced out through the gaps between the glass fibres. That vents the tank relatively slowly.
Obviously, that is not great, but it is better than the violent bursting of a metal tank.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 15/05/2022 15:47:09
Post by: Petrochemicals on 15/05/2022 16:07:45
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/05/2022 16:41:44
There is a reason pressurised containers are the shape they are.Yes
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Post by: Bored chemist on 15/05/2022 16:42:35
I didnt get to the part what to use to build it. The idea to compress hydrogen into water as a preventative matter. And bigger the capacity.Filling the tank with water leaves less room for hydrogen and makes it heavier.
Post by: Origin on 15/05/2022 18:27:01
I didnt get to the part what to use to build it. The idea to compress hydrogen into water as a preventative matter. And bigger the capacity.Are you saying you want to dissolve hydrogen into the water?
Post by: evan_au on 15/05/2022 22:53:19
Quote from: vdblnkr34
The idea to compress hydrogen into waterSolubility of Hydrogen in water at normal room conditions is about 0.00016, which sounds rather low.
- Compared to Carbon dioxide at 0.169, which is 1000x higher
- You would get somewhat more dissolved under pressure (just like a soda siphon), but it's not very effective.
Or do you mean that water is a very compact (denser) way of transporting Hydrogen?
- Unfortunately, once Hydrogen is combined with Oxygen to make water, it is useless as a fuel.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 17/05/2022 01:34:54
I didnt get to the part what to use to build it. The idea to compress hydrogen into water as a preventative matter. And bigger the capacity.Filling the tank with water leaves less room for hydrogen and makes it heavier.
Not really. Water doesn't get compressed, gas does Basically you can inject any amount of gas into the water tank, as long as it can hold that pressure. The reason to use water is to make hydrogen less dangerous during transportation. Can be used something else.
Post by: chiralSPO on 17/05/2022 02:46:44
Water doesn't get compressednot really (Water is compressible—not much, but enough. Also, I'm not sure why you would say this, as it means that there is less room for added gas—a more compressible liquid would "make room" for the added gas as the pressure increases...)
you can inject any amount of gas into the water tank, as long as it can hold that pressure.not really (at some point the pressure is high enough that it will liquify, and then there is less compressibility)
The reason to use water is to make hydrogen less dangerous during transportationHow? I can't think of any benefit from adding water. It just means that higher pressures will be needed to store the same amount of hydrogen (which is more dangerous), and more mass being carried (requiring more energy). If the hydrogen catches fire, the water won't do anything to stop it...
Post by: alancalverd on 17/05/2022 11:30:20
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/05/2022 21:12:18
Not really.Yes. Really.
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 18/05/2022 01:31:15
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 18/05/2022 01:38:36
Post by: vdblnkr34 on 18/05/2022 01:50:26
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/05/2022 08:36:59
You could burn that hydrogen and get 20 tons of water.
So what?
20 tons of CaH2 will react with water to give a few tons of hydrogen (and a lot of corrosive sludge).
If you want to use a hydride to transport hydrogen, try ammonia.
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/01/f19/fcto_nh3_h2_storage_white_paper_2006.pdf
Post by: alancalverd on 18/05/2022 10:42:00
Hydrogen storage in palladium is a popular process if container weight isn't a problem.
But if you really need 40 tonnes of payload in one shipment, liquefaction is probably the only practicable method, and you'll need a barge to carry 600,000 liters. The good news is that the fractional losses from a tank of that size will be very small.
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/05/2022 12:51:34
Burning methane creates CO2.
Carbon neutral methane is possible but not common.
Post by: Petrochemicals on 18/05/2022 13:04:44
.
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/05/2022 13:47:29
The reason to use water is to make hydrogen less dangerous during transportation.How would water make hydrogen less dangerous?
Post by: alancalverd on 18/05/2022 16:58:21
Post by: alancalverd on 18/05/2022 17:03:42
For the benefit of those who don't understand the problem...Who's talking about burning anything? This guy just wants to transport 40 tonnes of hydrogen in one manageable shipment. He could do so by shifting 320 tonnes of liquid methane (or 350 tonnes of ammonia, as you suggested) and extracting the hydrogen at the destination, but however he does it, he will need a barge, not a truck.
Burning methane creates CO2.
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/05/2022 23:08:59
Who's talking about burning anything?You.
People get overexcited about hydrogen fires,among others.
Post by: alancalverd on 20/05/2022 13:14:12
Who's talking about burning anything?
For the benefit of those who don't understand the problem...Ipsi dixit
Burning methane creates CO2.
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/05/2022 15:02:08
Ipsi dixitI guess you mean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipse_dixit
"Ipse dixit (Latin for "he said it himself") is an assertion without proof, or a dogmatic expression of opinion"
Are you saying that burning methane might not produce CO2?
Feel free to repeat this school experiment, using methane instead of wax.