Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: talanum1 on 18/10/2022 12:15:58

Title: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 18/10/2022 12:15:58
In my model it is because mass is space points compactified on a circle. Then it is no mystery, since space attracts space. So energy must also be space points compactified on a circle.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/10/2022 18:20:50

The trouble is that things like
because mass is space points compactified on a circle.
don't actually mean anything.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 19/10/2022 10:23:14
It does mean something. You got your skeptical glasses on.

Imagine a circle. Then imagine space points sitting compactly where the circle's line should be.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Origin on 19/10/2022 13:17:43
It does mean something.
No this just something you made up that has no basis in reality
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 19/10/2022 14:03:51
Imagine a circle. Then imagine space points sitting compactly where the circle's line should be.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Origin on 19/10/2022 14:24:40
Imagine a circle. Then imagine space points sitting compactly where the circle's line should be.
Imagine talanum1 discussing science.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 20/10/2022 13:22:19
that has no basis in reality

It has a basis in reality: it gives an explanation for the physical phenomenon of warping spacetime.

Imagine talanum1 discussing science.

It is science: you come up with a better explanation. And if you can't you have to accept mine. Your own explanation should be in terms of something physically concrete, and what else is there?

It gives a concrete object instead of the vague concept: mass/energy.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Origin on 20/10/2022 14:12:01
It is science: you come up with a better explanation. And if you can't you have to accept mine.
Ha ha, that is so absurd it's funny.  I don't know why mass warps space, your made up silliness is certainly not the reason.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Kryptid on 20/10/2022 17:42:43
It is science: you come up with a better explanation. And if you can't you have to accept mine.

That's not how that works. Evidence is needed in order for an explanation to be accepted.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/10/2022 18:04:56
imagine space points
For as long as you have been posting here, you have talked about these; but you have never properly defined them.
So you might as well be talking about unicorns.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Colin2B on 20/10/2022 22:17:03
It is science: you come up with a better explanation. And if you can't you have to accept mine.
Not so.
You have to show that your idea makes predictions that are correct, as determined by experiment, and which are not predicted by any other theory.

It gives a concrete object instead of the vague concept: mass/energy.
Mass and energy are not vague concepts.
If a lorry hits you at 30mph its mass and hence kinetic energy will do you serious damage. Nothing vague about that.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 21/10/2022 09:37:09
If a lorry hits you at 30mph its mass and hence kinetic energy will do you serious damage.

Then you define it by its affects. You can't pull that definition back to mass/energy itself. In itself it is vague.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 21/10/2022 09:49:43
your made up silliness is certainly not the reason.

What is it then. There aren't any other entities to postulate.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 21/10/2022 09:54:01
but you have never properly defined them

Space points can be defined as numbers (a distance away from a reference point). The reference point can be specified by a description, for example: the corner of the room.

Space points can rather be defined as whatever the numbers point to.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/10/2022 11:32:44
Space points can be defined as numbers
So energy must also be space points compactified on a circle.

Do you think  "So energy must also be numbers compactified on a circle." makes any sense?
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: alancalverd on 21/10/2022 12:24:09
Experimentally, mass attracts mass.

We model this mathematically as mass distorting a notional spacetime continuum.

Never confuse a mathematical model with an observation - this can lead to all sorts of delusions, including the unscientific use of the word "why". Physics is about "how". Sociology is about "why".
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 21/10/2022 13:07:00
Do you think  "So energy must also be numbers compactified on a circle." makes any sense?

I defined space points better as whatever the numbers point to. This must have a life on its own, since if you compactify it on a circle the numbers that pointed to the space points are no longer the same.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 21/10/2022 14:02:42
I see these rings in the sky, coupled to each other: energy. They react to being observed and when I lose sight of them they jump back to where I saw them first.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/10/2022 15:09:19
I see these rings in the sky
Does anyone else?
Can you think of a reason for that?
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: paul cotter on 21/10/2022 15:53:55
Hallucinations?
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: alancalverd on 21/10/2022 17:00:51
Various bits of stuff wander about in the vitreous humor of the eye. Common "floaters" in a normal eye can look a bit like fish eggs, with a black dot in a ring, sometimes joined in strings, and usually noticed when looking up at a brightish sky.

Worth checking with Dr Google and your optician  as the sudden onset of a different type or quantity of floaters can indicate a serious problem, particularly if they seem to be in a fixed position.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: paul cotter on 21/10/2022 18:54:55
Very true, alancalverd. June '21 I developed a vitreous detachment in my left eye which causes visual artifacts if I move my head suddenly. A collection of fixed spots can be a sign of retinal detachment which is a medical emergency. I was going to ask in jest  "who's your dealer" when he said he saw things in the sky but decided against doing so.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: pzkpfw on 21/10/2022 21:34:12
In my model it is because mass is space points compactified on a circle. Then it is no mystery, since space attracts space. So energy must also be space points compactified on a circle.

When you've assumed the highlighted part, how is your story any more of an explanation than what mainstream science provides?
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Colin2B on 21/10/2022 22:12:07
Then you define it by its affects. You can't pull that definition back to mass/energy itself. In itself it is vague.
I don’t know what you mean by “Then you define it by its affects”. If you mean by its effects, then yes, that is science.
We observe and define everything by the effects they have.

Your ‘theory’ is wandering aimlessly all over the place. You have 48hrs to fulfil the requirement I outlined earlier “You have to show that your idea makes predictions that are correct, as determined by experiment, and which are not predicted by any other theory.”
Failure to do this means you will be considered to be trolling us and you will be removed from the forum.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Bored chemist on 22/10/2022 00:52:42
Very true, alancalverd. June '21 I developed a vitreous detachment in my left eye which causes visual artifacts if I move my head suddenly. A collection of fixed spots can be a sign of retinal detachment which is a medical emergency. I was going to ask in jest  "who's your dealer" when he said he saw things in the sky but decided against doing so.
Nobody who frequents this site is under any delusions about my view of the OP but... I personally experience this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillating_scotoma
so

I see these rings in the sky
Does anyone else?
Can you think of a reason for that?
And I think this
" You have 48hrs to fulfil the requirement I outlined earlier “You have to show that your idea makes predictions that are correct, as determined by experiment, and which are not predicted by any other theory.”
Failure to do this means you will be considered to be trolling us and you will be removed from the forum."
is harsh.
A couple of days with an upset stomach  or failed internet would lead to the twit's suspension.
I suggest that something along the line of "further posts that aren't compatible with real world observations, and which are not backed by concrete evidence...".

But I recognise that it's the mods' decision; not mine

The sad truth is I don't think it will matter.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 22/10/2022 12:00:39
They are not hallucinations because I only see them on a white or blue background. I'm sure someone else would be able to see them: just look up at the sky and focus about 100 mm from your eyes.

how is your story any more of an explanation than what mainstream science provides?

Mainstream science cannot say why mass/energy distorts space. With the model of space as little balls connected with springs in 3D, my model gives an explanation.

“You have to show that your idea makes predictions that are correct, as determined by experiment, and which are not predicted by any other theory.”

I stated how to observe them.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: alancalverd on 22/10/2022 13:20:15
They are not hallucinations because I only see them on a white or blue background. I'm sure someone else would be able to see them: just look up at the sky and focus about 100 mm from your eyes.
See replies #20 and 21 above.

I see the "discs" whenever I'm flying in daylight, as does pretty well every other aviator, and the Powers that Be take a great interest in our ocular health: a few floaters are decidedly normal. They are not hallucinations. If they bother you, or change in quality or quantity, see an optician - soon.

If you can focus comfortably at 100 mm, you probably already have a regular optician, but anyone qualified to prescribe spectacles should be able to study your vitreous humor and retina.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: talanum1 on 23/10/2022 12:35:02
If they were something on the eye, they would not jump back to where I saw them first when momentarily losing sight of them.
Title: Re: Why does Mass/Energy Distort Spacetime?
Post by: Colin2B on 23/10/2022 13:41:16
If they were something on the eye, they would not jump back to where I saw them first when momentarily losing sight of them.
That’s not true.
The eye constantly seeks edges and moves around. If you stare at a star for long enough it will appear to start moving, but it is the eye moving.
Anything on or in the eye will appear to move back to your field of vision and some eg floaters will move around anyway. There are lots of optical effects in the eye caused by close focusing, not just floaters, but images of the retina, rings caused by the edge of the cornea or iris (just like the light spots you see through a camera lens.

No one is saying you are hallucinating, but you are mistaken in attributing them as supporting your theory. I think you are mistaken rather than trolling, but as you have not provided the information I requested this thread is locked and the subject closed. Do not reopen it.