Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: puppypower on 26/03/2017 13:06:02

Title: What is the chemical basis for why water allows life to appear in organics?
Post by: puppypower on 26/03/2017 13:06:02
As an example and experiment you can do at home; if we started with active yeast and then removed all the water, all bioactivity will stop and life will cease. If we add any other solvent to the lifeless dehydrated yeast, very little if anything will happen and there will be no signs of life. On the other hand, if we add water to the same lifeless dehydrated yeast, thousands of enzymes will become bioactive again, and the entire complex system becomes integrated allowing life to appear. From these basic experimental observations one can conclude that water is pivotal to all the bio-functions of life and that water is also critical to the integration of active bio-systems, to the induce the state we call life. How does water do this?



If you look at our universe, the three most abundant atoms are hydrogen, helium and oxygen. The hydrogen and helium appeared very early in the universe, fairly soon after the Big Bang. Oxygen is a product of stellar fusion and first appears with the first stars. Although oxygen is atom number 8 in the periodic table, it is number three in abundance. The oxygen atom is particularly stable as inferred by its universal concentration.

Hydrogen (proton) is unique in that this is the only atom that has not undergone nuclear fusion. Hydrogen retains the extra mass potential, it had from the beginning of the universe. All other atoms shed some of this extra potential, during fusion and mass burn. Hydrogen, pound for pound, has extra nuclear potential. One may also add to this, the binding between the positive charge and the substantial nucleus mass of the hydrogen proton. This places   the EM force in close proximity to the gravitational force at very short range, for possible unified force affects, that are slightly unique due to the extra mass of the hydrogen proton.

Oxygen is somewhat unique in that as oxide or O-2, it can hold two more electrons than it has protons and still be quite stable. The way you explain that is, the magnetic addition stemming from the two extra elections in oxide, add more attractive force, than electrostatic repulsive force, due to the two extra negative charges. Oxygen as oxide; completed octet, is slanted toward the magnetic side of the EM force. Oxygen does not try to remain symmetrical relative to the EM force, but prefers to complete the octet and become magnetic centric. This has to do with the 3-D symmetry of the p-orbitals which allow magnetic addition in 3-D.


Water or H2O, is compose of these two extreme atoms of the universe; energy and stability. The hydrogen has it extra internal potential, while oxygen is very stable and slightly slanted toward the magnetic side of the EM force. This pairing comes in handy in terms of the unique properties of hydrogen bonding. Hydrogen bonding is not just a polar or change attraction type bond, but it also has covalent bonding characteristics. Covalent bonding is connected to electron delocalization and sharing, where extra electron motion creates enhanced magnetic wave affects. The covalent nature of hydrogen bonding in water reflects the needs of oxygen. This can lead to some very interesting extended structuring in water.

Oxygen is the second most electronegative atom, behind Fluorine, where electronegativity is a relative measure of the tendency of an atom to attract and retain elections. This is connected oxygen's need to complete the octet for added magnetic stability. The high electronegativity of the oxygen of water, pulls shared electron density from its hydrogen atoms, exposing some positive charge. This adds potential on the hydrogen, which then hydrogen bonds to the unshared electrons on the oxygen of another water molecule.

These unshared electrons on the other oxygen, are part of its octet magnetic addition. The hydrogen bond adds magnetic affects to the hydrogen. This can be spin and translational/vibration between the two water. The hydrogen bonding in the water is a mixture of polar and covalent bonding states, with a slight activation energy hill between, based on the needs of the oxygen. The result is, hydrogen bonds are a type of binary switch, able to exist in two distinct states.




Title: Re: What is the chemical basis for why water allows life to appear in organics?
Post by: tkadm30 on 28/03/2017 09:52:12
Why do you think biological water activity must strictly be chemical?

I found this article quite interesting: http://www.iflscience.com/physics/new-quantum-state-water-discovered/

Title: Re: What is the chemical basis for why water allows life to appear in organics?
Post by: puppypower on 28/03/2017 12:42:20
Why do you think biological water activity must strictly be chemical?

I found this article quite interesting: http://www.iflscience.com/physics/new-quantum-state-water-discovered/

I originally started this topic in the chemistry section, so I was limiting the discussion to its fundamental chemical basis. This does not preclude physics aspects, such as quantum affects. However, that is not the best place to begin a discussion of water, but is better suited toward the end.

I should have stopped after the first paragraph, which overviewed experiments dehydrating yeast cells and adding other solvents.  The problem I created for myself was I tried to answer my own question, by starting at too fundamental a level, thereby taking my eyes off the main observations created by those experiments. The fundamental and unique natures of the hydrogen proton and the oxygen atom was a better platform for quantum tunneling. I thought I was being proactive.

The idea of the importance of water to life is not a new theory. I am not wanting to take credit for that.This idea has been around since before I was born. It began at least during the discovery of DNA, back in the 1950's by Watson and Crick. When they attempted to determine the structure of DNA, the water content of the DNA, as determined by another team, eliminated their first proposed model of a triple helix. The amount of water that was found, led to the structure more or less defaulting to the double helix structure we now take for granted. The main players, at that time, understood and realized the importance of water. However, science decided to develop models of life without water. DNA is still rarely shown with its bonded water. There is irrational going on.

The only thing I can think of is, the organic and chemical structures of life, are covalently bonded and therefore stable and were easier to investigate, using 1950's technology. Water is more fluid and in situ water is was much harder to investigate. Science needed to wait for improvements in analytical capability before the water could be investigated properly. Science. still needed to move forward, and did so, but only with what was possible to prove at that time. Over the past two decades a lot of discoveries have been made with respect to water. It is time to upgrade.

The system should be ready to start incorporating water, since the data is there, but after years of using statistical modeling, that places water in the black box, old habits seem to be hard to break. The science of water is still treated like this is new and needs work before anyone needs to act. That may be an artifact of statistical modeling, which evokes emotional science responses, which can cloud common sense.

For example, it has been know for several decades that protein fold with exact folds. Protein folding was originally treated with statistical modeling due to the weak binding forces that hold proteins together and the amount of thermal energy found in cells that can cause vibrations. Improved analytical techniques showed there is very little if any statistical variation in protein folding. For the most part, it has a probability of 1.0.

A statistical model does not apply, yet this is still treated like it was are back in the 1950's. Those who practice the horse and buggy sciences of life, don't want the automobile to succeed.

If we started with active yeast and dehydrate them, of the thousands of chemical activities in the cell, everything stops. If add another solvent, little if anything works and there is no sign of life. If we add water back, all things work and all things integrated so life can appear. Yet water is not important to 1950's horse and buggy science.
Title: Re: What is the chemical basis for why water allows life to appear in organics?
Post by: PhysBang on 31/03/2017 13:23:13
Please, take some time and some biology classes. Actually learn biology. Nobody in biochemistry forgets that cells contain water.
Title: Re: What is the chemical basis for why water allows life to appear in organics?
Post by: puppypower on 05/04/2017 12:02:00
Please, take some time and some biology classes. Actually learn biology. Nobody in biochemistry forgets that cells contain water.

I agree everyone in biology and biochemistry is aware that life evolved and occurs within water. My point of departure is based on the premise that that water is a critical component of life, and acts as a copartner with the organics. Both partners are needed to create state called life.

A basic experiment that leads to this premise is to take single cells, like yeast, and remove the water. Without water, there is no sign of life and no bioactivity from the organics. All the reactions in a biology and/or biochemistry textbook no longer occur. One can also look at the water that was removed, and see there is also no life in the water, without the organics. It is not one or the other, but they work as a team.

If we add any other solvent to the lifeless dehydrated organics of the yeast cells, little if anything will work and there will be no sign of life. You can't just use any solvent as though the solvent is inert. Water is not just any solvent but has unique properties. If we add water, all the organics systems will now work and state called life is restored. The water has a global impact. What I am trying to show, which is this topic, is how does water interact with the organics, to allow the state called life? Why can't any solvent do the same thing?

Life is centered on enzymes which catalyze chemical reactions. One key impact of the water is to force the enzyme to assume the exact proper shape, so it can act as a catalyst. This is based on a water-oil type affect. If we agitated water and oil to form an emulation, and then allowed the system to settle, two distinct phases or layers will form. The water oil system will actually lower entropy from an emulsion to form to pure layers.

Water helps to phase separate enzymes into exact folds so they can become catalysts. The water-protein system attempts to minimize free energy, since a potential exists between water and unfolded proteins. Like oil and water, the system will move in the same direction of lowest potential, allowing repeatable folding. Water loads the dice and changes the odds to where life is able to appear and persist.

Another way to look a this is, in the oil and water affect, we start with an emulsion that can be modeled using statistical assumptions, similar to what is used for gas and liquid solutions. Became of the potential in this system, as the water and oil begins to separate the odds change, until we get the final results, which is always the same; two layers. The final results is not governed by odds, but becomes a sure thing. The same is true of enzyme folding.

A statistical analogy for the water-oil affect is a slot machine. As an emulsion the odds are close to random. As the water and oil begin to bead up, from the emulsion, the slot machine odds get better and better for the players, until in the end every pull is a winner. Water is not allowed in the science casinos; statistical models, since it cheats. Many things water does can't be fully explained with odds, alone. Water counts cards and loads dice thereby undermining the assumptions of statistics.