# Naked Science Forum

## On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: guest39538 on 01/06/2017 16:11:42

Title: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: guest39538 on 01/06/2017 16:11:42
A working model

zones.jpg (53.78 kB . 1274x584 - viewed 3376 times)

solved.jpg (31.25 kB . 1274x584 - viewed 2947 times)

In affect the  momentum of drop forces the arm to enter the repulsion zone which in affect then pushes the arm up whilst the arm is also attracted by the attractive zone pulling the arm up .  The momentum should be continuous and I see no fault in the working model.
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Bored chemist on 03/06/2017 13:28:22
Neither working, nor a model.
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: guest39538 on 03/06/2017 13:50:57
Neither working, nor a model.
no, it is a working model.  That will work
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Alex Dullius Siqueira on 03/06/2017 23:27:26
Try to complex it.
Add a twin opposite model and link them both using a straight line..
Take a spherical magnet and split on the middle, overlap the north and south poles so the sphere now resembles a sand clock..
Model A
S I
Like (>I<)  Sand Clock like
I N
Model B

I'm suggesting that the sand clock magnets at the center should add electromagnetic angular momentum (////) to both Models (linked to each other) at the plate...
And the models must be able to bounce up and down, not only spin on X 360° but bounce up side down on the horizon...
If make sense I can drawn something terrible....

Just thing about tow of your 2D models add a sand clock magnet in the middle, and now project it to a 3D perspective on your mind...
There is no math behind of this is just that feels natural that the missing element is the "bouncing horizon", the vertical propulsion up and down the X horizon will be inadvertently converted into spin by the two models A and B, wouldn't it?

This image is no model but it'll defnetly give a plus to what I have in mind:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AIxjIYeHAAg/T3bleix-toI/AAAAAAAAHxo/XdvVPQezCx0/s1600/52860_Papel-de-Parede-Ampulheta_1024x768.jpg

In a sense the orbs are your models, the sand clock is a flipped sphere N/S (repelling thyself) and the angle is just about right to collide with your models to add angular momentum to a whole horizontal plate of models, the only requirement seems to be that the plate must be attached to the sand clock middle in a way it can bounce up and down, enough to add external source for the horizontal motion...
Perhaps even the sand clock must spin and bounce...
How about open a whole inside the sand clock magnet to form a gas/liquid turbine?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS37n1-QloqVtqkz6WCsXvEUX1DWTR4l7NJ_N1XAqzVrf6z2OOo

Can you visualize what I mean?
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Alex Dullius Siqueira on 04/06/2017 00:40:22
Also this man seems to be relying on horizontal bouncing as key to perpetual motion, although I consider his machine more like a discovery than free energy...
He's bouncing the disk to the sphere using mechanical motion, I'm suggesting bouncing the spheres to the disk using electromagnetism...
I'm not aiming to use the electromagnetism to affect the components, I'm aiming to use the electromagnetic fields to "Cheat" with the environment, sort of replicating a mini artificial magnetosphere condition... Using structures to tame the electromagneticfield and use it against itself (loop itself)
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: guest39538 on 04/06/2017 05:08:57
Try to complex it.
Add a twin opposite model and link them both using a straight line..
Take a spherical magnet and split on the middle, overlap the north and south poles so the sphere now resembles a sand clock..
Model A
S I
Like (>I<)  Sand Clock like
I N
Model B

I'm suggesting that the sand clock magnets at the center should add electromagnetic angular momentum (////) to both Models (linked to each other) at the plate...
And the models must be able to bounce up and down, not only spin on X 360° but bounce up side down on the horizon...
If make sense I can drawn something terrible....

Just thing about tow of your 2D models add a sand clock magnet in the middle, and now project it to a 3D perspective on your mind...
There is no math behind of this is just that feels natural that the missing element is the "bouncing horizon", the vertical propulsion up and down the X horizon will be inadvertently converted into spin by the two models A and B, wouldn't it?

This image is no model but it'll defnetly give a plus to what I have in mind:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AIxjIYeHAAg/T3bleix-toI/AAAAAAAAHxo/XdvVPQezCx0/s1600/52860_Papel-de-Parede-Ampulheta_1024x768.jpg

In a sense the orbs are your models, the sand clock is a flipped sphere N/S (repelling thyself) and the angle is just about right to collide with your models to add angular momentum to a whole horizontal plate of models, the only requirement seems to be that the plate must be attached to the sand clock middle in a way it can bounce up and down, enough to add external source for the horizontal motion...
Perhaps even the sand clock must spin and bounce...
How about open a whole inside the sand clock magnet to form a gas/liquid turbine?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS37n1-QloqVtqkz6WCsXvEUX1DWTR4l7NJ_N1XAqzVrf6z2OOo

Can you visualize what I mean?
Do you mean like a train wheel link design?

Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Kryptid on 04/06/2017 05:25:37
no, it is a working model.

So you've actually constructed it?
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Alex Dullius Siqueira on 04/06/2017 14:49:05

This:
My models suck, so counting on you...
I'm trying to capture the power of the whole river flow but inside a small area...
http://imgur.com/GFVyaM6

Untitled.png (121.98 kB . 967x473 - viewed 3214 times)

Imagine a river flowing and a narrow curve, the river always produce lost spirals at the corners, for me that's the nature of the photon when the electron is spinning....
Of course the horizontal plate is not submerged into the liquid, it can be even isolated from the whole process, being there it's enough...
If the water flow inside the turbine is the wave length of an electron, than the spiral flow created on each corner of the device would be like photon converting....
There is no difference in between the straight line movement and the spiral except for the fact that the energy on the spiral configuration can be more easily collected...

Earth is on a infinity free fall towards its own dilatation, we cannot produce a machine long enough to capture lots of liquid flow, but the Tesla valve seems to be doing just that, on a much lower area... After all every spiral movement is on itself it's a free fall towards infinity...

Free energy from nowhere? I don't thing so...
But free energy not from the water flow, but from the system (gravity) that is producing the flow? Sure...

I'm not aiming to extract energy from the water, i'm aiming to use water as a tangible substitute for "space"...
Space can't be captured, but liquid does...

If possible, at the moment the horizontal ring stabilizes it's rotation it'll exponentially multiply the energy by a lot...

No need to violate thermos dynamics or laws of physics, like on the river example, the idea is to harvest more gravitational influence on a small area...  Gravity is all around us, if one is able to add +plus gravity to a small area it's likely that it will be converted into acceleration on this case spiral movement, the ring function is just rotate suspended there with no friction... And the energy will be collected by a single sphere (Dynamo) at the center or by magnetic spheres that are located around the spinning plate...

This image is no model but it'll defnetly give a plus to what I have in mind:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AIxjIYeHAAg/T3bleix-toI/AAAAAAAAHxo/XdvVPQezCx0/s1600/52860_Papel-de-Parede-Ampulheta_1024x768.jpg

ttt.jpg (48.97 kB . 1024x768 - viewed 3286 times)
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: RD on 04/06/2017 15:34:46
... it'll exponentially multiply the energy ...  No need to violate thermos dynamics or laws of physics

"multiply the energy", nothing can do that : energy cannot be created or destroyed , (1st law thermodynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics)).
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Alex Dullius Siqueira on 04/06/2017 16:07:07
... it'll exponentially multiply the energy ...  No need to violate thermos dynamics or laws of physics

"multiply the energy", nothing can do that : energy cannot be created or destroyed , (1st law thermodynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics)).

It's my limited English, I was suggesting to "multiply" because each spiral inside the valve is on itself a individual flow, and each individual is adding to the power of the whole system...
I apologist then, never meant to create energy from nowhere, only to stimulate the river flow to create more than one loose end on each corner...

A relative small turbine what does not focus on harvesting the waterfowl but instead one that "exists within" (as) one with the water flow as a meaning to an end, the end being let the plate absorb all the river's flow into acceleration...

A normal turbine produces mechanical movement on itself with moving parts, I'm wondering a (turbine) that is not harvesting the motion of water but the potential energy the flow is being submitted to...

A turbine capture only the potential of the area it's affecting, and even if one is to unilateral the flow towards the turbine there is friction and eventual limitations due friction and heat...
I wondering a turbine produced over Tesla's Valve design can "multiply" the efficiency by it's length, more pressure faster sppin....

And there two designs arrive, one that the plate sustains the sand clock turbine this one I suppose wouldn't work because of the incoming water pressure, but the one where only the plate is spinning, that seems to be possible...
This all considering that they indeed find a way to produce useful mono pole magnets...

I'm wrongly assuming that the the "potential energy" of the gravity that's moving the river is C?

Afunilate a flow towards a spiral Tesla Valve, one with holes on the walls and that will behave like a Tesla turbine, but do not harvest that, use magnetic rings around of it that are submitted to the turbine spiral movement...

The turbine angular magnetic field will be the thing bouncing the plates till the point that all the angular momentum being applied to both sides of the plates will be perfectly converted into acceleration and the disk will stabilize with 100% of efficiency, minus the drawback of the magnetic spheres on the surroundings...

I guess they call this Vortex technology, not the actual one the one from Viktor Schauberger
I was always fascinated with the way he based his inventions on nature observation...

My idea is to redirect a river towards a free fall exist ( Vertical pipe) and set it trough a vertical Tesla Valve but one that allows the liquid to exit, that valve would convert the flow into pressure and the pressure would turn it into spin..
The spin is not harvested on the interior but on the exterior using floating magnetic disks that are surrounded by curved walls made of magnetic spheres and those spheres are the ones converting the movement into electric energy...
They are also helping to stabilize the spinning plates...

the exterior format of the turbine can be cylindrical but it must have attached to it magnetic structures that resembles the exterior of a sand clock, those points will be responsible to set the floating plates into motion...

I should have used "multiply the efficiency" for converting motion/energy, not the energy itself...
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Kryptid on 05/06/2017 01:56:52
If the force exerted by the magnets on the arm is greater than the force exerted by gravity on the arm, then the arm will not be able to pass the repulsive zone because the amount of momentum given to the arm by gravity will not be sufficient to overcome the repulsive force. Alternatively, if the force exerted by the magnets on the arm is less than the force exerted by gravity on the arm, then the magnets will not be strong enough to push the arm all the way back up to the top.

Remember, the amount of energy input required to lift an object against gravity to a given height is equal to the amount of energy released by that object when it falls that same height (assuming no air resistance). Therefore, the magnets would have to create a force against gravity equal to the force that gravity initially pulls on the rod with in order to raise it all the way back to the top and complete the cycle. If it was perfectly balanced in a vacuum with frictionless bearings, it might actually be a perpetual motion machine of the third kind. However, any attempt to extract energy from the system would interrupt that balance and cause it to stop moving.
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: guest39538 on 05/06/2017 15:34:48
If the force exerted by the magnets on the arm is greater than the force exerted by gravity on the arm, then the arm will not be able to pass the repulsive zone because the amount of momentum given to the arm by gravity will not be sufficient to overcome the repulsive force. Alternatively, if the force exerted by the magnets on the arm is less than the force exerted by gravity on the arm, then the magnets will not be strong enough to push the arm all the way back up to the top.

Remember, the amount of energy input required to lift an object against gravity to a given height is equal to the amount of energy released by that object when it falls that same height (assuming no air resistance). Therefore, the magnets would have to create a force against gravity equal to the force that gravity initially pulls on the rod with in order to raise it all the way back to the top and complete the cycle. If it was perfectly balanced in a vacuum with frictionless bearings, it might actually be a perpetual motion machine of the third kind. However, any attempt to extract energy from the system would interrupt that balance and cause it to stop moving.
The only attempt to extract energy from the device would be when the arm was falling turning some mechanism to produce energy.
After discussion with a moderator on another forum in personal messages I am now not quite so confident in the notion,  he explains he has the device and as been trying to get it to work for 25+ years without success.

Hopefully I can get a peek at this device and maybe the chance to have a tinker.
Title: Re: Perpetual motion and perpetual energy using gravity and magnetic forces to power
Post by: Kryptid on 05/06/2017 21:54:10
The only attempt to extract energy from the device would be when the arm was falling turning some mechanism to produce energy.

Then it won't work. Essentially, what your device would be doing is using the kinetic energy it gained while the arm is falling to power itself just enough to raise the arm back up to the top again. If you extract any energy from the arm as it falls, then the kinetic energy it has when it reaches the bottom of the swing will be less than the energy required to raise the arm back up to the top again. That will make it stop.