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Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: tkadm30 on 17/11/2017 14:57:40

Title: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: tkadm30 on 17/11/2017 14:57:40
The concepts of natural and artificial emotions are problematic: How do we determine if an emotion is natural or artificial?

Happy pills doesn't fix society: It creates an artificially-induced state of happiness for people to carry on where they would normally feel "miserable".

Quote from: Aldous Huxley
Now let us consider another kind of drug still undiscovered, but probably just around the corner a drug capable of making people feel happy in situations where they would normally feel miserable. Such a drug would be a blessing, but a blessing fraught with grave political dangers. By making harmless chemical euphoria freely available, a dictator could reconcile an entire population to a state of affairs to which self-respecting human beings ought not to be reconciled. Despots have always found it necessary to supplement force by political or religious propaganda. In this sense the pen is mightier than the sword. But mightier than either the pen or the sword is the pill. In mental hospitals it has been found that chemical restraint is far more effective than strait jackets or psychiatry. The dictatorships of tomorrow will deprive men of their freedom, but will give them in exchange a happiness none the less real, as a subjective experience, for being chemically induced. The pursuit of happiness is one of the traditional rights of man; unfortunately, the achievement of happiness may turn out to be incompatible with another of man's rights liberty.


 


 





Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: cheryl j on 18/11/2017 04:36:17
I think your definition of "authentic" is ambiguous and problematic here. At first I thought you were referring to emotions genuinely experienced as opposed to someone pretending to mimic an emotional state (ie smiling when you are not really happy, laughing at a joke that you don't actually find funny etc.) But you seem to be referring to emotional states induced or suppressed by drugs. I'm not sure, however, there is any real difference, though, subjectively, between emotional states that occur from normal brain chemistry or other chemicals. For example, the experience of panic, or the reactions displayed, might be identical, whether it is induced by some perceived threat, or an injection of adrenaline.
Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: tkadm30 on 18/11/2017 09:36:55
I think your definition of "authentic" is ambiguous and problematic here. At first I thought you were referring to emotions genuinely experienced as opposed to someone pretending to mimic an emotional state (ie smiling when you are not really happy, laughing at a joke that you don't actually find funny etc.) But you seem to be referring to emotional states induced or suppressed by drugs. I'm not sure, however, there is any real difference, though, subjectively, between emotional states that occur from normal brain chemistry or other chemicals. For example, the experience of panic, or the reactions displayed, might be identical, whether it is induced by some perceived threat, or an injection of adrenaline.

Is technology or happy pills addiction blunts our emotional authenticity ?
Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: cheryl j on 21/11/2017 14:34:59
Ok, I think I see what you mean now. Based on the way people behave, it would be fair to say that drugs like alcohol and opiates hijack the system, since people who develop an addiction spend more and more time time seeking and taking that drug, and less and less time on activities and personal interactions that previously gave them happiness or satisfaction.

I'm not sure you can lump all drugs in that category, since depressed people who take antidepressants often return to those activities, or even seek out new ones. You seem to be taking the position that if nature has decreed someone be miserable, than miserable they should be, because that is authentic.

 CBT, meditation, exercise, even a major change in environment and routine can also alter brain states and neurochemistry, but some people may need a "priming of the pump" with a medication to initiate those things.
Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: tkadm30 on 21/11/2017 18:45:40
Ok, I think I see what you mean now. Based on the way people behave, it would be fair to say that drugs like alcohol and opiates hijack the system, since people who develop an addiction spend more and more time time seeking and taking that drug, and less and less time on activities and personal interactions that previously gave them happiness or satisfaction.

I'm not sure you can lump all drugs in that category, since depressed people who take antidepressants often return to those activities, or even seek out new ones. You seem to be taking the position that if nature has decreed someone be miserable, than miserable they should be, because that is authentic.

 CBT, meditation, exercise, even a major change in environment and routine can also alter brain states and neurochemistry, but some people may need a "priming of the pump" with a medication to initiate those things.

Your english is quite excellent.

I really respect your ideas towards emotional authenticity and nature. :)

Hijacking the system with antidepressants and opiates seems a possible explanation of how people are "priming the pump" to stay functional and "happy" in this world. (Soma)

Do you believe in psychosomatic drugs which regulate serotonin and dopamine levels depending on the
social context?

I have very little knowledge on Prozac chemistry.


Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: evan_au on 21/11/2017 19:41:56
Quote from: tkadm30
By making harmless chemical euphoria freely available, a dictator could reconcile an entire population to a state of affairs to which self-respecting human beings ought not to be reconciled.
Are you pointing out political dangers in sources of chemical euphoria like marijuana?

I think that society today is under a lot of stress - living packed together in small boxes, traveling and shopping in close proximity to others. The average person does not have much time to spend in quiet, green spaces. Labor-saving devices allow work to be completed more quickly, and yet the number of working hours does not seem to be decreasing (except for those who can't get work, and are under even greater stress).

Visit a high-density island like Singapore, Hong-Kong or Manhattan to see what I mean. For some people it is dysfunctional, but other people love it, and would not want to live in the surrounding areas (like New Jersey).

I think that some people do need chemical help to cope.
In past generations, such people would have just withered away.
Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: tkadm30 on 21/11/2017 20:39:00
Are you pointing out political dangers in sources of chemical euphoria like marijuana?

I'm talking about the political dangers of unrestricted antidepressants (Prozac) and opiates uses.
Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: mrsmith2211 on 22/11/2017 01:09:16
Authentic to who would be the question. A person hearing voices deems them authentic, an observer deems them non authentic. A person on LSD may experience altered states of mind, because of the drug are they not authentic? Let us say you have natural endorphin or Adrenalin that changes your mindset, where do you draw the line. For me if a person experiences something for whatever reason, it is authentic to them, Is it authentic to others only matters to others. 
Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: puppypower on 22/11/2017 12:15:35
One aspect of human willpower and free choice, is connected to being able to generate the same brain chemicals as natural emotions, thereby recreating emotions, willfully. This can be done with either a hardware and/or a software approach. The most popular hardware approach is by using drugs; recreational and prescription.

The software approach is based on using the imagination, to recreate memories, which have been engrained, with the chosen emotional valence. For example, the person who dwells on their glory days, uses these memories to trigger the release of the parallel neurotransmitter concentrations, so they can relive the emotions, again and again. This may be boring to outside,  but the inducer gets a buzz.

The reason this is possible is during the writing of memory, to the cerebral matter, emotional tags are added by the core regions of the brain. Our memories have both form and emotional valence. If you can recreate a past experience through memory, where the emotions were strong, you can use the emotional tagging, to trick the brain into generating the same brain chemicals. These brain chemicals are natural, as is their affect. However,  they originate using willpower instead of through environmental or natural internal inductions.

A good example is an actor who plays a role. He/she will first research and then attempt to empathize with the life of the character. This is done to generate and organize their own personal memories, to take advantage of the emotional tagging. The brain chemicals, so generated, recreate the emotions and all the physical  parallels that accompany these emotions. The audience sees what appears to be a real person dealing with life's emotions.

There is a special case of this affect. This is where, through repetition, the induction of the emotions, over time, triggers the personalty firmware. This has the impact of creating a self standing loop, that may appear, to the untrained eye, to be due to a hardware problem.

For example, post traumatic stress is often connected to recreating the traumatic memories until the brain starts the loop; constant release of chemicals. Sometimes recreational drugs can help distract the mind and imagination, so the loop is not reinforced. Other drugs go right to the source of the chemical release. However, this has the problem of not addressing willpower and software control. This can be chemical company bonanza, since one may need to use the chemicals forever, at a premium price.

One thing I have noticed, is more and more people are using the software approach to emotions. This often occurs through social media, where people engage in self aggrandizing fantasy,  due to the immediate gratification and reactions one can get on the internet, extrapolated by emotional driven imagination. This is useful practice if done with science in mind. It can provide a portal by which one can use willpower to tweak the personality firmware.


Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: mrsmith2211 on 23/11/2017 05:24:38
One aspect of human willpower and free choice, is connected to being able to generate the same brain chemicals as natural emotions, thereby recreating emotions, willfully.

You are making the assumption the repeat of the same chemicals will produce the same effect every time, bad assumption. You have a lot of pretty words wound into a conclusion that is spurious at best.
Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/11/2017 09:43:54
One aspect of human willpower and free choice, is connected to being able to generate the same brain chemicals as natural emotions, thereby recreating emotions, willfully.


A person using antidepressants or opiates to prime the pump or hijack their serotonin and dopamine levels chemically has not less natural emotions than we do: The social matrix of behavior and interpersonal communication may influence our emotional authenticity! :)

Title: Re: How do we determine if an emotion is authentic?
Post by: puppypower on 23/11/2017 13:59:40
One aspect of human willpower and free choice, is connected to being able to generate the same brain chemicals as natural emotions, thereby recreating emotions, willfully.

You are making the assumption the repeat of the same chemicals will produce the same effect every time, bad assumption. You have a lot of pretty words wound into a conclusion that is spurious at best.

Let me give an example. Members of the anti-Trump movement in the USA, will treat all Trump supporters the same way, as though everyone is a threatening clone. The reason for this one-sided emotional perception, that is not in touch with realty, is an underlying brain chemical loop that is repeating itself; fight and flight. The result is such people will react, emotionally, in a predictable and singular way, in spite of all the emotional nuances that stem from individual human beings. They have emotions, but it is not a genuine reflection to the environment.

A repeatable one sided emotional reaction, uses a chemical loop to self generate internal emotions. You will feel what you feel. This is projected outward, until your emotion appear to stem from the outside environment. The unconscious person will assume the other person is inducing these feeling, so it feels natural and justified. However, the loops starts inside their own brain. It is not reacting properly, to the real time stimulus.

As an analogy, I can touch your arm and you will feel it. It is also possible for you to have an internally induced muscle twitch, spasm, pain or itch. If you are not aware, these can be internally generated, you may think it happened by me touching you, while you were not looking. The feelings will be very similar. If one is not aware of the source, there can be confusion in terms of how you react to the other person.

Objectivity is connected to lower levels of emotional brain chemicals. Mr Spock had few emotions. His fictional brain was not generating much in the way of emotional chemicals. This is in contrast to the stronger internal linear chemical background, in the above example. With a lower level of brain chemicals, it is easier to be induced in real time, by the environment; react to people with genuine emotions.

The brain chemicals, behind emotions, flow into the cerebral spinal fluid, which circulates, triggers neurons, and eventually is removed. Genuine emotions come and go, using lower level concentrations. This allows quick and subtle adaption to stimulus. Emotions in his case can be a very useful orientating function. To achieve this natural state, one has to work on ego and superego induced loops, so these do not drown out the needs of emotional objectivity; genuine feelings, using projected background noise.

Looping can also be natural, when it stems from the personality firmware. For example, the firmware of romantic love; induces one to fall in love, can induce a very enjoyable brain chemical cocktail loop, than can linger for months. One will see the world though rose colored glasses. The world has not changed, only the internal chemical environment that colors our emotional perception. The beloved becomes perfect. Once the firmware stops the loop, we see things differently ,due to less love noise.