Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 10:47:13

Title: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 10:47:13
Is there any scientific definition of a "manchurian candidate"?

What do we know exactly about the science of psychocomputational energetics?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWJ8Yy7X0AA8VW9?format=jpg)

See: https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/hearings/95mkultra.pdf
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 11:02:22
Quote
Senator HUDDLESTON. Was there any evidence or any indication that there were other motives that the Agency might also be looking for drugs that could be applied for other purposes, such as debilitating an individual or even killing another person? Was this part of this kind of experimentation?

Admiral TURNER. Yes; I think there is. I have not seen in this series of documentation evidence of desire to kill, but I think the project turned its character from a defensive to an offensive one as it went along, and there certainly was an intention here to develop drugs that could be of use.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 11:56:51
Quote
The implication of the underlined portion of the above statement is that if a technique were devised to induce brain concussion without giving either advance warning or causing external physical trauma, the person upon recovery would be unable to recall what had happened to him. Under these conditions the same technique of producing the concussion could be re-used many times without disclosure of its nature.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 11:59:26
Quote
Excitation of the resonance cavitation by tuned sound waves also appears to be a reasonable possibility. Concentration of the soundfield at some remote point could be effected with accoustical lenses and reflectors. The blast duration would be in the order of a tenth of a second. Masking of a noise of this duration should not be too dificult.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: chiralSPO on 23/02/2018 14:54:36
Really tk?

I knew you were into conspiracy theories, but this one takes the cake.

Honestly, it terrifies me that there are so many conspiracy theorists out there, and that they can find each other online and confirm each others ridiculous ideas.

Now, before you start accusing me of being "in on it" I will say there is nothing to be "in on."

In all seriousness, and without the intent of denigrating you or anyone else with mental health issues, if you really think there is any reasonable chance that school shooters were controlled by their phones, you should really strongly consider seeking treatment again.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 15:14:28
Really tk?

I knew you were into conspiracy theories, but this one takes the cake.

Honestly, it terrifies me that there are so many conspiracy theorists out there, and that they can find each other online and confirm each others ridiculous ideas.

Now, before you start accusing me of being "in on it" I will say there is nothing to be "in on."

In all seriousness, and without the intent of denigrating you or anyone else with mental health issues, if you really think there is any reasonable chance that school shooters were controlled by their phones, you should really strongly consider seeking treatment again.

Before you accuse me of being torn apart with conspiracy theories, can you please read the full document?

By the way, this document is from the US government, @chiralSPO . Will you also accuse me of having invented mkultra experiments?

I was hoping you could provide a more accurate and scientific answer rather than simply making fun of me.
 
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 15:50:52
More info here: https://www.reddit.com/r/badBIOS/comments/35tysj/navys_perfect_concussion_project_beamed/
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 16:09:17
Who was John C. Lilly? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Lilly
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 23/02/2018 16:12:48
Brief, Noninjurious Electric Waveform for Stimulation of the Brain (1955): http://science.sciencemag.org/content/121/3144/468
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: chiralSPO on 23/02/2018 17:19:14
MKultra was a real program, but only indicates intent of government to be creepy (we already knew that).

The notion that a phone could control a human mind vastly overestimates the capabilities of any "bad actor," and this will likely remain in the realm of science fiction for a few more decades.

I will grant that there may be a way to hack a phone to rig it to cause bodily harm to the user, I don't know how, but let's say it is possible. Causing concussions is still a very long shot from mind control.

Are people (govts, mafias, and corporations) secretly gathering info on people to use for their own profit? That's a safe bet. Is Apple and the US govt and Iridium engaged in a decades-long conspiracy to use phones to knock people out and reprogram them to do the gov'ts bidding? Sounds like a very long shot. Especially when there is a really cheap and effective way of getting the same results: bribery, blackmail, and deceit are tried and true methods of turning enemies against their own.

No need for fancy, expensive tech, and thousands of co-conspirators.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 23/02/2018 17:36:26
By the way, this document is from the US government, @chiralSPO . Will you also accuse me of having invented mkultra experiments?

Project MKUltra was done way before smartphones were invented, so some documents from the project cannot possibly contain evidence that smartphones are being used to mind control people.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 23/02/2018 18:27:48
Is there any scientific definition of a "manchurian candidate"?
Yes
"The Manchurian Candidate is a novel by Richard Condon, first published in 1959. "
from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manchurian_Candidate

There is no reason to believe in any "real" existence of one.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 25/02/2018 11:20:45
Quote
Some TI's report that the voices are trying to trick them into acts of violence, such as entering a
school and shooting people. This is instructive in the wake of the wave of school
shootings and other apparently spontaneous acts of random violence that have no clear
motivation. The effort to cause school shootings is a classical destabilization campaign
to raise the level of fear in society that promotes acceptance of repressive measures by
the parents but also has led to school children living in fear and seeing armed uniformed
men in the school that normalizes their acceptance of living in a police state.

https://archive.org/stream/MonarchTheNewPhoenixProgram_441/Monarch_djvu.txt
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 25/02/2018 13:44:15
What are you hoping to achieve by posting conspiracy nonsense on a science web site?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 25/02/2018 14:03:16
What are you hoping to achieve by posting conspiracy nonsense on a science web site?

You're getting too old for this man. You should take a break off.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 25/02/2018 15:11:12
Quote
Some TI's report that the voices are trying to trick them into acts of violence, such as entering a
school and shooting people. This is instructive in the wake of the wave of school
shootings and other apparently spontaneous acts of random violence that have no clear
motivation. The effort to cause school shootings is a classical destabilization campaign
to raise the level of fear in society that promotes acceptance of repressive measures by
the parents but also has led to school children living in fear and seeing armed uniformed
men in the school that normalizes their acceptance of living in a police state.

https://archive.org/stream/MonarchTheNewPhoenixProgram_441/Monarch_djvu.txt

Non-sequitur. You can't make a logical jump from "people hear voices" to "people hear voices because their mobile phones are mind-controlling them" without some really good evidence that mobile phones actually do possess the mind-controlling capabilities you claim that they have.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 25/02/2018 17:26:16
What are you hoping to achieve by posting conspiracy nonsense on a science web site?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 25/02/2018 18:56:56
Non-sequitur. You can't make a logical jump from "people hear voices" to "people hear voices because their mobile phones are mind-controlling them" without some really good evidence that mobile phones actually do possess the mind-controlling capabilities you claim that they have.

Read this:
https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt-know-tracking/
http://christian.wressnegger.info/content/projects/sidechannels/2017-eurosp.pdf
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: chiralSPO on 25/02/2018 19:42:24
Yes, that device that you always carry with you, the one with the camera, microphone, gps, accelrometer and a constant link to the internet, is spying on you. Welcome to the 21st century. If you actually read any of the fine print in the contracts when you buy a smartphone, smart tv, etc., you will see the bit where they say that. Don't agree? Don't use a smart phone.

Does this "revelation" indicate, in any way, that these devices can be used to knock out a specific person, reprogram them to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or want to do, and then once the deed is done wipe any memory of this from their minds? Um... no.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 25/02/2018 19:49:35
Does this "revelation" indicate, in any way, that these devices can be used to knock out a specific person, reprogram them to do things they wouldn't otherwise be able to do, or want to do, and then once the deed is done wipe any memory of this from their minds?

Please dig further...
Did you knew that ultrasonic signals may be used to remotely trigger a behavioral response through mechanical effect on neurons??
See: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/early/2018/02/20/JNEUROSCI.1458-17.2018
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: chiralSPO on 25/02/2018 20:15:58
Oh wow, a cutting edge article published last week in a well-respected journal showed that a team of scientists were able to use very loud sounds that are too high for humans to hear to trick tiny worms (with a total of 302 neurons in its whole body) into feeling sensations that the worms apparently misinterpreted as "objects in the way" that they would try to avoid. How does this support your claim that human mind control is not only possible, but has been implemented already?

It's a cool article, and I'll cut you some slack because the actual article is behind a pay wall, so you can't see any more than the abstract. But even there, it clearly says (my bolding):

Quote
Further, we propose that acoustic radiation force governs the response to ultrasound in a manner that depends on the touch receptor neurons and MEC-4-dependent ion channels. Our findings illuminate a complete pathway of ultrasound action, from the forces generated by propagating ultrasound to an activation of a specific ion channel. The findings further highlight the importance of optimizing ultrasound pulsing protocols when stimulating neurons via ion channels with mechanosensitive properties.

Essentially, they are using touch receptor neurons, which are innately sensitive to pressure (in contrast to our CNS neurons, which are not). They found a "bug" in the worms' sense of touch and were able to get the worms to feel things that weren't there. Again, cool stuff with interesting implications about touch. But if this is the sort of evidence you want to present to support claims about human mind control, this is the wrong forum (I wish there weren't a "right one" for this kind of discourse).
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: evan_au on 25/02/2018 20:50:28
Quote from: tkadm30
Some TI's report that the voices are trying to trick them into acts of violence
Psychotic conditions (where voices instruct people to acts of violence) predate smartphones, and predate cellphones.
What makes you think that mobile phones are the cause of these voices?
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 26/02/2018 01:38:29
https://www.wired.com/2016/11/block-ultrasonic-signals-didnt-know-tracking/
http://christian.wressnegger.info/content/projects/sidechannels/2017-eurosp.pdf

There isn't an iota of evidence in either of those links that mobile phones are mind-controlling people. Terms like "brain", "mind-control" and "neuron" are absent from both of those links.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 26/02/2018 09:20:03
Oh wow, a cutting edge article published last week in a well-respected journal showed that a team of scientists were able to use very loud sounds that are too high for humans to hear to trick tiny worms (with a total of 302 neurons in its whole body) into feeling sensations that the worms apparently misinterpreted as "objects in the way" that they would try to avoid. How does this support your claim that human mind control is not only possible, but has been implemented already?

It's a cool article, and I'll cut you some slack because the actual article is behind a pay wall, so you can't see any more than the abstract. But even there, it clearly says (my bolding):

Quote
Further, we propose that acoustic radiation force governs the response to ultrasound in a manner that depends on the touch receptor neurons and MEC-4-dependent ion channels. Our findings illuminate a complete pathway of ultrasound action, from the forces generated by propagating ultrasound to an activation of a specific ion channel. The findings further highlight the importance of optimizing ultrasound pulsing protocols when stimulating neurons via ion channels with mechanosensitive properties.

Essentially, they are using touch receptor neurons, which are innately sensitive to pressure (in contrast to our CNS neurons, which are not). They found a "bug" in the worms' sense of touch and were able to get the worms to feel things that weren't there. Again, cool stuff with interesting implications about touch. But if this is the sort of evidence you want to present to support claims about human mind control, this is the wrong forum (I wish there weren't a "right one" for this kind of discourse).

C. elegans is a model organism for studying the central nervous system. Besides, the possibility of ultrasonic signals to control neurons is well known. Just google it.

Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 26/02/2018 09:34:35
What makes you think that mobile phones are the cause of these voices?

Look at the picture on my initial post for clues... Then, you may consider the possibility that ultrasonic side-channels embedded in mobile phones could be used to stimulate the auditory/visual cortex of the user without their consent. Also, the possibility that Nikolas Cruz owned a mobile phone before and during the attack is not being disclosed. Why?

Moreover, after reviewing the background of the shooter, I found no evidences that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Autistic and depressive peoples are not known for hearing remote voices. Something clearly is broken in the official story.


 
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 26/02/2018 18:13:00
Then, you may consider the possibility that ultrasonic side-channels embedded in mobile phones could be used to stimulate the auditory/visual cortex of the user without their consent.

That doesn't mean that ultrasonic signals can be used to mind-control people. Even if they could be used for mind control, it doesn't mean that mobile phones specifically are secretly being used to mind-control people. You really need to find a way to separate "could be done" and "is being done" in your mind. Those two phrases are not synonymous.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 27/02/2018 09:36:50
"Can an individual of [redacted] descent be made to perform an act of attempted assassination involuntarily under the influence of ARTICHOKE?"

https://unredacted.com/2010/04/23/document-friday-project-artichoke-or-the-cia-attempt-to-create-a-manchurian-candidate/
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 27/02/2018 11:02:57
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW1vFymXcAAzYZj.jpg)
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 27/02/2018 11:25:31
Connect the dots people!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/16/study-finds-young-people-on-antidepressants-more-prone-to-violence
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/02/2018 13:56:05
Lots of folk take prozac ut don't go on killing sprees.
There were mass murders before prozac was on the market.
So it's obviously stupid to think that prozac is the cause of of mass killings.

You cite a link that says it "does not prove that such drugs cause people to be more violent,"

So- why do you pretend otherwise?
Why, as yo put it, "connect the dots" to form a picture that's' not real, never was, and never will be?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 27/02/2018 14:22:35
"Can an individual of [redacted] descent be made to perform an act of attempted assassination involuntarily under the influence of ARTICHOKE?"

https://unredacted.com/2010/04/23/document-friday-project-artichoke-or-the-cia-attempt-to-create-a-manchurian-candidate/

Nothing about mobile phones being used to mind control people there.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW1vFymXcAAzYZj.jpg)

Nothing about mobile phones being used to mind control people there.

Connect the dots people!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/16/study-finds-young-people-on-antidepressants-more-prone-to-violence

Nothing about mobile phones being used to mind control people there.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: chiralSPO on 27/02/2018 17:12:37
https://xkcd.com/258/
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 28/02/2018 20:28:02
You guys are underestimating seriously the science, history, and current research on psychoenergetics. Educate yourself. MKUltra was only the beginning of it. Do you really think that US government is stupid enough to disclose psychoenergetics research? Do you know what means TOP-SECRET/CLASSIFIED projects to begin with?

Do you think seriously that Nikolas Cruz has become a born-to-kill assasin without the use of drugs and possibly psychoenergitics bioweapons? Do you even know what the heck is psychoenergetics bioweapons?

Why don't you see the patterns behind theses well-designed and coordinated attacks on the American people?

Your president is a liar.

You are being lied by the elites who thinks that they're so bright nobody will ever dare to challenge the official narrative.

I will tell you something...

The truth is the truth and nothing, and nobody can hide from it.

We all have what it takes to become educated and informed about the science of psychoenergetics.

History, my friends, is seriously an essential thing to teach in schools.

School is definitely not a place to put guns.

If you disagree with this reasoning then you're probably my enemy.

I love kids too much to allow guns to be put inside schools.

Sorry, it's not going to work out.

People will wake up and throw their smart phones away once they realized how and why it is used against us.

tk





 
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 28/02/2018 21:11:00
Here is my burden of proof: give me one, just one, verified instance of a smart phone (or any kind of phone) being used to mind control someone. The phone must also have equipment inside of it that is present in existing, publicly-available smart phones (obviously, super-special-secret smart phones are pointless if no one in the public owns one). When I say "verified", I mean it has to be a study or experiment published in a reputable source. It cannot be in the form of ambiguous evidence. Here are some (hypothetical) examples of ambiguous evidence:

(1) "So-and-so went on a shooting spree soon after buying a smart phone."
(2) "People with smart phones are statistically.more likely to shoot people than those who do not have them."
(3) "All recent shooters owned smart phones."
(4) "Signals from smart phones can affect the brain."

So give me a verified source. If you can do this, I will begin to take your claims seriously. I will accept nothing less. If you cannot do this, then you are wasting your key strokes.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: chiralSPO on 28/02/2018 22:43:27
School is definitely not a place to put guns.
I will agree with you there!
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 01/03/2018 00:39:34
So give me a verified source. If you can do this, I will begin to take your claims seriously. I will accept nothing less. If you cannot do this, then you are wasting your key strokes.

What do rats find rewarding in play fighting?

Consider a "technique" for tricking someone to believe he/she playing a video game.

Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Colin2B on 01/03/2018 11:11:31

Why don't you see the patterns behind theses well-designed and coordinated attacks on the American people?
Your president is a liar.
You are being lied by the elites who thinks that they're so bright nobody will ever dare to challenge the official narrative.
But you are one of the people spreading these narraitives!! So you are responsible for the co-ordinated attacks.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 01/03/2018 16:12:24
What do rats find rewarding in play fighting?

Consider a "technique" for tricking someone to believe he/she playing a video game.

So still no verified sources, eh?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 02/03/2018 10:25:32
So still no verified sources, eh?

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=72490.0
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/03/2018 11:09:02
So still no verified sources, eh?

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=72490.0
LOL
Citing yourself isn't a verified source.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bill S on 15/03/2018 18:59:13
http://mileswmathis.com/strike.pdf 

This chap does his best to combine "science" and conspiracy theory.  For the past 15 years, or so, it's been his full time occupation. 

School shootings, bombings and terrorist activities in general are all government conspiracies.  Why should we make an exception for our mobile phones?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: tkadm30 on 16/03/2018 09:12:08
School shootings, bombings and terrorist activities in general are all government conspiracies.  Why should we make an exception for our mobile ph ones?

Please dig deeper... The "conspiracy theory" label is an invention of the CIA to make people investigating on sensitive issues to look dumb.

Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Kryptid on 16/03/2018 16:39:58
Please dig deeper... The "conspiracy theory" label is an invention of the CIA to make people investigating on sensitive issues to look dumb.

You're right. Conspiracy hypothesis would be the better term to use.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Donnah on 17/03/2018 07:27:17
Is 5G a Manchurian candidate?  I found this video interesting.  Notice the plant growing in front of the smart meter. 
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/03/2018 17:53:24
"Is 5G a Manchurian candidate?"
No
"Notice the plant growing in front of the smart meter. "
What plant?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Donnah on 14/04/2018 14:07:18
The one in the video I posted. It's between 7 and 8 minutes in.

You say no. What is your knowledge of 5G that brings you to that conclusion?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2018 22:15:14
The one in the video I posted. It's between 7 and 8 minutes in.
Is that the bit where the narrator demonstrates that they don't know what "exponentially" means?

Anyway, a 07:52 you can clearly see the bugs that are giving the plant a hard time.
They seem to be thriving in spite of the smart meter.

What is your knowledge of 5G that brings you to that conclusion?
Well, the Manchurian candidate was a person.
5G isn't.
The Manchurian candidate was introduced dishonestly- pretending to be something it wasn't.
Again, 5G isn't the same.

So, the answer to the question "is 5G a Manchurian candidate?" is plainly "no".

Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Donnah on 20/06/2018 05:50:09
The one in the video I posted. It's between 7 and 8 minutes in.
Is that the bit where the narrator demonstrates that they don't know what "exponentially" means?

Anyway, a 07:52 you can clearly see the bugs that are giving the plant a hard time.
They seem to be thriving in spite of the smart meter.

What is your knowledge of 5G that brings you to that conclusion?
Well, the Manchurian candidate was a person.
5G isn't.
The Manchurian candidate was introduced dishonestly- pretending to be something it wasn't.
Again, 5G isn't the same.

So, the answer to the question "is 5G a Manchurian candidate?" is plainly "no".


Bugs will attack a plant that's been weakened. (I'm an experienced gardener) Since we have no way of knowing how long the bugs were subjected to 5G and whether or not there was any effect on the bugs I see it as premature to conclude that the bugs thrived.

I can't answer your question about "exponentially" since the video has been removed and I can't refer back to it.

So the extent of your knowledge of 5G is:
1) it isn't human
2)The Manchurian candidate was introduced dishonestly- pretending to be something it wasn't and you say 5G isn't the same.

I agree with you on point 1, 5G isn't human.  As far as point 2 goes, what is your (preferably technical) evidence that 5G is being introduced honestly? Is there anything more you know about 5G?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/06/2018 19:36:20
As far as point 2 goes, what is your (preferably technical) evidence that 5G is being introduced honestly?
I don't propose to try to prove a negative.

Are you able to show any evidence of dishonesty?
Is there anything more you know about 5G?
Quite  a lot- did you have anything particular in mind?
I agree with you on point 1, 5G isn't human. 
Well, that's enough to prove that it's not a Manchurian candidate.
Anything else is window dressing.
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/06/2018 19:36:50
Bugs will attack a plant that's been weakened.
Did you consider the fact that bug attacks will weaken a plant?
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: Donnah on 07/08/2018 02:26:15
Hi Bored chemist,

Listen to "Barrie Trower on 5G Microwaves" on youtube. He is better educated on the subject than most people and voices my concerns clearly.

On a personal note, I live in a remote mountain location and grow my own food. I certainly didn't craft my life that way so someone else could bombard me with microwaves.

Donnah
Title: Re: What is a manchurian candidate?
Post by: jimbobghost on 11/11/2018 21:25:47
I suggest Barack Obama was a "Manchurian candidate".

he convinced Democrat voters he would bring the US to a socialist country; but failed (intentionally?) so badly that the country elected a Republican president.