Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:31:16

Title: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:31:16
Tides are not formed along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only on those coasts with a high speed of currents.
And the higher the speed of currents along the coast, the higher the amplitude of the tidal wave.
On those coasts where the speed of currents is 0 km / h, the amplitude of the tides is also 0 meters.

The waters of the lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming cyclonic gyres.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
As is known, everything that rotates, including the cycles, has the property of a gyroscope, to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.

If you look at the Earth from the side of the Sun, the gyres, rotating with the Earth, turn over twice a day, thanks to which the gyres precess (sway by 1-2 degrees) and reflect a tidal wave from themselves along the entire perimeter of the gyre.
https://goo.gl/images/M4SJq8 http://goo.gl/AM5g1s

The waters of the White Sea rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge gyroscope whirlwind, which precessing reflects the tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the White Sea. A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
White Sea. http://rivermaps.ru/doc/beloe/beloe-3.htm
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png

The waters of the Mediterranean Sea rotate counterclockwise, forming tides 10–15 cm high. In the Gulf of Gabes, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the mysteries of nature. But at the same time, in the Gulf of Gabes, the cycle rotates, precessing reflecting an additional tidal wave. The tidal wave in the Amazon River creates a huge planetary circulation with a diameter of several thousand km., Rotating between South America and North Africa, covering the mouth of the Amazon River.
The pattern of movement of the tidal wave along the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary circulation (according to satellite data). http://goo.gl/R1hx0H

The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the rotation.
The height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the rotation, the orbital velocity of the Earth and the time of the rotation of the rotation (12 hours).
A = V1 • V2 / t
Where, A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 is the rotation speed of the rotation.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t is the time of the rollover of the cycle (12 hours).
Table of tidal amplitude versus current velocity, on all coasts.
1 km / h - 1 meter.
5 km / h - 5 meter.
10 km / h - 10 meter.
15 km / h - 15 meter.
The amplitude of the tides also depends on the size of the gyre, the amount of water under the gyre, the distance from the coast to the gyre, and the direction of the current (north, south, west, east).

Currents that move along the equator, reflect from themselves a tidal wave to the north and south, twice a day.
And the currents that move along the meridian reflect from themselves a tidal wave to the west and east, 1-2 times a day.
This can be easily verified by rotating the globe around its axis and in orbit, entwined along the equator and the meridian with a polyethylene hose in which the fluid moves.

The tidal cycle theory can be easily verified by linking the height of the tidal wave with the rotation speed of the gyre.
From the height of tides, you can determine the speed of the current along the coast, based on the atlas of sea currents.
-------------------
How to understand the fact that the amplitude of the tides in the Bay of Fundy yesterday was 6 meters, and today is 18 meters.
What changes have occurred per day, for such a sharp jump.
We have two possible answers.
1. For a day, the force of gravity increased three times.
2. During the day, the rotation speed of the rotation has increased three times.

A record high tide in the Bay of Fundy - 21.6 meters - occurred only once in the entire history of observations, on the night of 4 to 5 October in 1869.
On the night of 4 to 5 October in 1869, under the influence of the Saxby Gale cyclone, a record rainfall fell over the basins of rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy (300 mm in one day), due to which waters from the Bay of Fundy poured into the Bay of Man and increased speed rotation cycle in the Gulf of Maine, three times.

During the flood of the rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy, the current speed in the north of the Gulf of Maine rises to 20 km / hour, as a result of which the height of the tides reaches 18 meters.
During a drought over the basins of rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy, the amplitude of the tides does not exceed three meters.
And the most important question is why in the season of abnormally high tides in the Bay of Fundy, in other bays of the Northern Hemisphere, the amplitude of the tides does not increase?
A similar pattern of abnormally high tides (floods) is observed in all the bays into which rivers flow.

The real-time animation shows how the waters flowing into the Gulf of Maine from the Gulf of Fundy form a cycle that, precessing, reflects the tidal wave in the direction of the Gulf of Fundy.
https://earth.nullschool.net/?fbclid=IwAR3fDQD_uF0xgVpETpxVzbrv2xxgzOR0UfAKIEFDHAKoC2jzE-Mpu1lIWMs#current/ocean/surface/currents/equirectangular=-65.27,44.29,3000/loc=-66.405,44.310
https://images.app.goo.gl/hAE4F7kyMQ1mhcAF9
Mezen Bay White Sea tide height reaches 10 m.
https://earth.nullschool.net/?fbclid=IwAR245zpmdxn7SmOQdJ7qF9HhRn-54AYSZIChWmA6-0A2rXyJ9y2UivmtlZA#current/ocean/surface/currents/equirectangular=42.30,67.95,3000/loc=44.019,65.946
Tides - table. http://www.prilivy.com

The discovery was published in the Russian-German scientific peer-reviewed journal “Eastern European Scientific Journal” No. 3/2015. Page 64. June
http://www.auris-archiv.de/journal.html
Scientific journal "NBICS-Science. Technologies" No. 4/2018. Page 104.
(Nanotechnology Society of Russia).
http://www.nanonewsnet.ru/news/2018/vyshel-chetvertyi-nomer-zhurnala-nbiks-naukatekhnologii
Continued, The mechanism of the vertical circulation of the waters of the oceans.
Forum Federal Target Program "World Ocean". http://okeany.com/forum/784.htm
Forum, Science, discoveries, experiments.
http://www.russian.fi/forum/showthread.php?p=4048781&posted=1#post4048781
French Maritime Forum (Discussion).
http://forummarine.forumactif.com/t9357-le-flux-et-reflux-est-le-resultat-de-la-rotation-de-la-terre
English forum. "Weather / Earth Sciences".
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35094.0
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:38:17
Criticism of the lunar theory of tides.

Why in the equatorial zone the tidal wave height is three times lower than in temperate zones?

According to the lunar theory of tides, the earth's crust rises and falls twice a day at a latitude of Moscow with an amplitude of about 20 cm, and the amplitude at the equator exceeds 50 cm (2.5 times more).
Then why in the equatorial zone the amplitude of the tides ranges from 0 - 6 meters and in temperate zones from 0 - 18 meters?
The highest tides on Earth are formed in the Bay of Fundy in North America - 18 m, at the mouth of the River Severn in England - 16 m, in the Bay of Mont Saint-Michel in France - 15 m, in the lips of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Penzhinskaya and Gizhiginskaya - 13 m , at Cape Nerpinsky in the Mezen Bay - 11 m.
If it is logical to argue, at the equator the height of the tide should be 35 - 40 meters. Also, if the Bay of Fundy were located at the equator, the height of the tide would be about 45 meters. The whirlwind theory of tides explains this discrepancy by the absence of gyres, cyclones and anticyclones at the equator. For the formation of gyres, cyclones and anticyclones, the deflecting force of Coriolis is necessary. At the equator, the effect of the Coriolis force is minimal and in the temperate zones, maximum. https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a0730201f0f095995e9cc6c7c9875519
Information on tides in some ports of the world
https://www.krugosvet.ru/enc/Earth_sciences/geografiya/PRILIVI_I_OTLIVI.html

The tidal cycle theory can be easily verified by linking the height of the tidal wave with the rotational speed of the gyres.
List of seas with an average rotational speed of gyres over 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm.
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasovo Sea, Hudson Bay, Bay of Man, Alaska Bay, etc.
List of seas with an average rotation speed of less than 0.5 km / h and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm: the Baltic Sea, Greenland Sea, Black Sea, Sea of ​​Azov, Chukchi Sea, Kara Sea, Laptev Sea, Red Sea, Marmara Sea , Caribbean Sea, Sea of ​​Japan, Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: the height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the ebb and flow are not the same. https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_seas
Sea of ​​the USSR http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/
----------------
According to the Static Theory of Tides, the "Moon Tidal Wave" moves from east to west at a speed of 1600 km / hour, skirting the Earth in 24 hours, rubbing the ocean floor and filling only the eastern shores of the continents. But after centuries it was discovered.

1. What does the "Moon tidal wave" flood both the western and southern and northern shores of the continents?
2. That the speed of the tidal wave of 1600 km / h is destructive for both the continents and the marine fauna?
3. What is at the same time across the globe, there are not two tidal humps, but more than a hundred, regardless of the location of the moon?
4. That abnormally high tides for some reason are formed in semi-closed bays, where there is no direct access to the tidal wave. And in the bays open to a tidal wave, tides or not at all, or are they small?
Later, a dynamic model of tides was proposed, allowing for a lag (up to 800 km / h) and tidal-hump turns due to friction on the ocean floor. And to show the magnitude of the backlog of the hump, they introduced an application clock (from 0 to 12).
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm

But the dynamic model of tides does not answer all the questions posed.
1. While the tidal wave makes one revolution around the Earth, the Moon makes two turns, how is the gravitational connection between the Moon and the tidal hump carried out?
2. If the applied hour is zero, it means that the friction of the tidal wave against the ocean floor is absent, and the wave speed is 1600 km / h, and if the applied hour is 12, it means that the friction reduced the speed of the tidal wave to 800 km / h .
Why, in one region there is friction of a tidal wave against the ocean floor, and in another region there isn’t?
3. In order for the "Moon tidal hump" to exist, the heterogeneity of the gravitational field is necessary, and for this, the Moon must be constantly above the hump, otherwise the hump will collapse?
4. If the moon created a tidal hump on the Earth, it would not be an ellipse, but a drop. (Gravitational force is added, not compensated)?
5. Tidal waves are synchronized with the daily rotation of the earth and are 50 minutes daily behind.
The moon is not synchronized with tidal waves.
(The moon is one, and there are hundreds of tidal waves on Earth)?
6. It is believed that the cause of the second moon hump is the barycenter. And what is the cause of the second solar hump?
7. Why high tides are not formed in the new moon, and on the third day after the new moon.
(On the third day after the new moon, the orbital velocity of the Earth is maximum).
8. How does the current of the western winds manage to move from west to east, at a speed of 5 km / h, rubbing the ocean floor, while the tidal wave flows from east to west at a speed of 800km / h, rubbing the ocean floor?
9. As the tidal forces of the earth stopped the rotation of the moon, if the side of the moon facing the earth is concave, and the reverse side of the moon is convex. Laser altimeters of the Apollo-15, -17 spacecraft showed that the visible side of the moon lies below the average level, and the invisible side lies above it?
10. In cosmonautics, this is already a proven fact that the area of ​​attraction of the moon is limited to 10 thousand kilometers from the surface of the moon,
artificial satellites of the moon with a radius of the orbit of more than 10 thousand km. break out of orbit?
11. Why do tidal waves move strictly along the perimeter of lakes, seas and oceans, and not from east to west, following the moon?
12. Amphidromic point - the center of the cycle
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphidromicheskaya_tochka
is it a point in the ocean, where the amplitude of the tidal wave is zero, does the tidal wave “go around” this point around clockwise or counterclockwise?
13. Why in the equatorial zone, the amplitude of the tides is three times lower than in temperate zones?
14. Why are tides on the northern and southern coasts of the seas and oceans three times higher than on the eastern and western coasts, but it should be the other way around?
15. How to understand the fact that the tidal range in the Bay of Fundy yesterday was 6 meters, and today it is 18 meters.
What has changed in a day, for such a sharp jump.
16. It is believed that abnormally high spring “Tides of the century” with an amplitude of 15 meters in the Gulf of Saint-Malo are formed during the parade of planets, then why there are no abnormally high “Tides of the century” in other bays of the Northern Hemisphere during the parade of planets.
Moreover, in some bays of the Northern Hemisphere during the parade of the planets abnormally low “Tides of the Century” occur. (Bay of Fundy, Ungava Bay, Mezen Bay, Penzhinskaya Bay, etc.)?
17. How to explain the fact that in the port of Freemantle in southwestern Australia, the tides of the year are significant, and then disappear.
Once a year, in the delta of the Northern Dvina, during the spring floods, the ebb and flow of the mysteriously disappear for several days, sometimes for a week, and this is considered one of the mysteries of nature?
18. Why in the White Sea tides are 100 times higher than in the Baltic Sea.
The height of the tides in the White Sea is 10 meters, and in the Baltic 10 cm?
19. Why, during droughts, over the basins of the rivers flowing into the White Sea, anomalously low ebbs and flows occur?
20. On which theory did the Chinese tidal calendar of 1100 rely?

The editorial staff is ready to withdraw the article if an objective critical review is written. Scientific journal "NBICS-Science. Technologies" http://www.rusnor.org/pubs/articles/15638.htm
Rule of revocation (retraction) of the article from publication
https://rasep.ru/sovet-po-etike/pravilo-otzyva-retragirovaniya-stati-ot-publikatsii

In order to mathematically express a physical phenomenon of nature, including a gyroscope, first of all it is necessary to thoroughly study the physics of the phenomenon of nature; otherwise, the mathematical model will turn into a heresy hidden behind mathematical formulas.
The physical properties of a conventional solid gyro today are not fully understood, and the mechanics of a flexible gyroscope are much more complicated than the mechanics of a solid gyroscope, and the enormous whirlpool-gyroscope is also affected by the Coriolis force of the Earth and the Sun.
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:42:06
The mechanism of the formation of floods.
Faculty of Geography, MSU. https://vk.com/club5535

The waters of the lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming cyclonic gyres.
The main cause of rotation of gyres are local winds, flowing into the seas and oceans of the river and the deflecting force of Coriolis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre

And the higher the speed of the winds, the higher the rotation speed of the gyres and, as a result, the centrifugal force of the gyres increases, due to which the water level of the seas and oceans increases.
And the lower the rotation speed of the gyres, the lower the water level of the seas and oceans.
The speed of currents along the perimeter of the seas and oceans is not the same everywhere and depends on the depth of the coast.
In the shallow part of the seas and oceans, the flow moves fast, and in the deep water part of the seas and oceans the flow moves slowly.

Seasonal increase in the water level is observed not along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only on those coasts where a high angular velocity of currents and, as a result, a high centrifugal force of water. (Centrifugal force F = mv2 / r).
On straight coasts where currents do not have an angular velocity, the water level does not rise.

The waters of the Gulf of Finland rotate counterclockwise to form a cycle in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal storm winds and the flood river Neva rotate the cycle to 17 km / h, the centrifugal force of the cycle increases, so that on the east coast of the Gulf of Finland the water level rises more than 3 meters.
A similar pattern of seasonal increase in water levels is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.

The average depth of the Gulf of Finland is about 50 meters, on the east coast about 5 meters, in the west of the bay about 100 meters, for this reason the linear and angular velocity of currents on the east coast of the Gulf of Finland is much higher.
As far as the depth of the coast decreases, the speed of the currents increases.
Flooding in St. Petersburg.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_Saint_Petersburg

In the Gulf of Finland, the seasonal rise in water levels has two peaks, in August – September and in December – January and in time they coincide with the season of storm winds and the high water of the Neva River.
The speed of the current in the Gulf of Finland reaches 17 km / h, and the maximum speed of the current on Earth reaches 30 km / h, the wind speed is more than 100 km / h.
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/09.html

The waters of the North Sea rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge circulation.
And when seasonal storm winds rotate the cycle, more than 20 km / h (on the southern coast), the centrifugal force of the cycle increases, so that, on the southern coast of the North Sea, the water level rises more than 5 meters.
(The storm surge is more than 2.5 meters, the centrifugal surge is more than 2.5 meters and the tidal wave is more than 5 meters).
North Sea Flood 1953.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:North_Sea_Currents.svg

The waters of the Caspian Sea rotate counterclockwise forming a circulation in the form of an ellipse.
And when the flood river Volga rotates the circulation, more than 10 km / hour, the centrifugal force of circulation increases, so that, on the northern coast of the Caspian Sea, the water level rises more than 1 meter.
The centrifugal tide is an invisible water block at the mouth of the river.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_jam

The average depth of the Caspian Sea is about 200 meters, on the north coast about 5 meters, on the south coast about 500m.
For this reason, the linear and angular velocity of the currents on the northern coast of the Caspian Sea is much higher.
In the Caspian Sea, the peak of the seasonal water level increase is observed in June-August and coincides in time with the flood of the Volga River.
During a drought over the Volga River basin, the water level in the north of the Caspian does not rise.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/06.png
https://bigenc.ru/geography/text/2050560

In the Bay of Bengal, in the season of monsoon winds and floods of the Ganges River, the speed of the gyre increases over 10 km / h, due to which the seasonal increase in water levels exceeds 15 meters.
(The storm surge is more than 2.5 meters, the centrifugal surge is more than 2.5 meters and the tidal wave is more than 10 meters).
Bay of Bengal flood 1970.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhola_cyclone

The seasonal increase in the level of the Black Sea (up to 40 cm) is most pronounced in the southeastern part of the sea, where in summer the angular velocity of the currents along the coast reaches its maximum value.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/07.html

The height of the floods depends not so much on the speed and direction of the wind, but on the speed of rotation of the rotation, due to which centrifugal surge and abnormally high tides are formed.
For this reason, on different coasts with the same wind speed, the height of floods varies.
A storm surge of great height in the Northern Dvina River may also form under the influence of the north wind.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png
https://vestnik5.geogr.msu.ru/jour/article/view/11?locale=ru_RU
If, during a storm, flood rivers that flow into the bay do not create a whirlpool, or a gale wind moves against the whirlwind, then flooding does not form and is easy to predict.

The assumption that the cause of the seasonal rise in the water level may be the pressure of the atmosphere, the flow of the rivers, the temperature difference and the salinity of the waters do not hold water, these factors may raise the water level by a few cm, but no more.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cycle_of_sea_level_height
https://research.csiro.au/slrwavescoast/sea-level/sea-level-change/
http://www.okeanavt.ru/tainiokeana/1066mifosrednemurovne.html
The presented theory can be easily verified by relating the velocity of the currents to the level of the seas and oceans.
(Based on a map of depths and currents, seas and oceans).
Real-time sea current speed
http://portal.esimo.ru/portal https://www.ndbc.noaa.gov
http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/sat_ocean.html

If during the flood in St. Petersburg, to direct the flow of the Neva River against the flow of waters of the Gulf of Finland, by building canals and floodgates, you can significantly reduce the increase in water levels on the east coast of the Gulf of Finland.

Dear Climatologists!
I propose to use the theory presented for weather forecasting in seas and oceans.
If you have any questions, you can contact the editors of the journals or the author.
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:49:50
The reason for the formation of oceanic dead zones.

Mixing the wind, they enrich water with oxygen only to a depth of several tens of meters of the surface of the seas and oceans, while cyclonic gyres deliver oxygen-rich water to a depth of more than 10 km. (Mariana Trench).

How does this happen?
The waters of the lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming cyclonic gyres. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre

As is well known, everything that rotates, including gyres, has the property of a gyroscope to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.

If you look at the Earth from the side of the Sun, the gyres revolving with the Earth turn over, due to which the gyres precess, resulting in vertical movement of oceanic waters. http://goo.gl/AM5g1s

The presented theory can be easily verified by relating the oxygen content,? With the rotation speed of the cycle.
Based on the map of the depths and currents of the seas and oceans.
The higher the flow rate, the greater the oxygen content and the lower the hydrogen sulfide content.
List of low oxygen seas.
Black Sea, eastern Mediterranean, Gulf of Mexico, Norway fjords.
As we see, gyres are involved not only in the horizontal circulation of the waters of the seas and oceans, but also in the vertical.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ocean-dead-zones/

The coefficient of oxygen content can be expressed mathematically by the following formula O = V / G
V - rotation speed, km / h.
G - depth of the reservoir, km.
Black Sea 0.2 / 1200 = 0.00016.
Sea of ​​Okhotsk 1/800 = 0.0012.

Vertical movement of ocean waters can be modeled using simple experience.
For this, a half-filled vessel with a rotating liquid (bucket, tumbler, mixer) must be rotated around itself (in orbit).
If the liquid in the bucket rotates to the right, then the bucket around itself (in orbit) must be rotated to the left. http://bourabai.ru/articles/black_sea.htm

Vertical and horizontal circulation is a vital fundamental law of nature, without which life in the ocean would be impossible.
During the vertical and horizontal circulation, there are also side non-vital effects of nature associated with gyres, ebbs and flows, seasonal rise in sea level, killer waves.
The speed of sea currents in real time.
http://portal.esimo.ru/portal https://www.ndbc.noaa.gov
http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/sat_ocean.html
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/04/2018 19:54:05
Waves of the killer. The official group of the Institute of Earth Sciences SFU. https://vk.com/ogbarannikova

A tidal wave moving across the ocean is called a soliton.
When a soliton collides with the coastline of the continent, ebbs and flows are formed. In the collision of solitons, two adjacent gyres, a killer wave is formed.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Killer Waves
This can be checked by throwing two stones at the same time into the water bath. When a soliton collides, the killer wave that has arisen foams and the larger wave pulls a smaller wave somewhat.
You can create a half-meter-killer wave with a duration of 0.5 seconds, if two divers simultaneously jump "bombs" into the water from a height of 2 meters, with a distance of 3 meters between them.
If you throw two pieces of sugar into a glass of tea at the same time and a killer wave forms there.
The mechanism of the formation of a tidal wave in rivers and killer waves in the oceans is similar, and the height of a tidal wave in a river depends on the speed of the flow of water in a river.
https://goo.gl/images/Tm13py
https://goo.gl/images/amdjwj

The place of the possible stoning of the killer waves can be predicted from the maps of gyres and, accordingly, to lay routes.
An approaching killer wave or tsunami can be partially neutralized by creating a series of oncoming waves, torpedoes or projectiles.
If two waves do not collide with each other, then they freely walk on the ocean, and they are called solitons or Rossby waves.
Three sisters is a collision of a soliton with three storm waves.

The solitons, reflected around themselves in cycles, colliding with storm waves, create a killer wave and are the main cause of ship wreck.
And knowing the graph of the propagation of solitons in whirlpools, one should accordingly choose the time and route of movement in the seas and oceans.
The perimeter of the seas and oceans, I believe, is the most dangerous place for anchorage and movement of ships, especially where there is a high speed of circulation.
The center of the gyre, I believe, is the safest place to wait out bad weather, and it is advisable to install a buoy in the center of the maelstrom.

https://goo.gl/images/icF4zf
The map shows the areas of the most frequent occurrence of killer waves.
In the North Atlantic, killer waves form mainly along the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary gyre, as a result of a collision of a tidal wave with storm waves (three sisters).

http://www.freegrab.net/Tide%20waves.gif
The animation shows how in the area of ​​the Bermuda Triangle, as a result of the collision of tidal waves reflected by the North Atlantic and South Atlantic planetary gyres, a killer wave is formed.

The clock set on the animation shows that the killer waves in the Bermuda Triangle are formed twice a day at 12 and 24 hours.
Based on the demonstrated animation, you can make a calendar of formation of killer waves not only for future years but also for previous ones.

During the season of long, eastern winds in the north of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and floods of the rivers flowing into the Penzhinskaya Bay, the speed of the current in the north of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk increases several times, due to which, in the north of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the water level, the amplitude of tides and killer waves increases.
The current that moves along the northern coast of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk reflects a tidal wave both towards the coast and towards the open sea. (South). https://goo.gl/images/u3AsBQ
Lottia of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk http://parusa.narod.ru/bib/books/fareast/1406-1.htm
https://goo.gl/images/u3AsBQ
All physical processes that occur in the ocean, occur in the atmosphere and in the mantle of the earth.
"The laws of nature are universal."
Lao Tzu
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 25/04/2018 22:48:00
Quote from: Fermer05
Then why (are) the highest tides are formed in the temperate zones and not at the equator? The highest tides on Earth are formed in the Fundy Bay in North America...
I would hardly call the Bay of Fundy "temperate zone"... I wouldn't want to go swimming there!

The reason that the tides are so high in these regions is because the natural resonance frequency of the water sloshing in and out of these bays is similar to the driving period of the Moon's orbit, which is a little over 12 hours (or the Sun, which is 12 hours).

Just like a child's swing in the playground: if you push it at a rate close to the resonant frequency, you can get a large amplitude of motion. However, if you push it at a very different rate, the swing will still move, but it will be much lower in amplitude.

These locations with extreme tides cannot be due to centripetal force from whirlpools - a long, narrow channel like the Bay of Fundy will not support circular motion of the water with a large radius. The same goes for Mont St Michel, which is on the English Channel/La Manche.

PS: I have seen that in Brittany (North-Western France), small boats are built with little "feet". This is so that when the tide goes out an enormous distance, the boat remains upright on the sand, and refloats on the rising tide. Without this, the boat would sit at an angle on the keel, and be swamped by the rising tide...
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 26/04/2018 05:47:48
Consider the mechanism of formation of tides in the Bay of Fundy, created by the "Moon theory of tides": (As they say, everything is learned in comparison).

"Moon tidal wave" moving from east to west along the vast expanses of the Atlantic Ocean cuts into the west coast of the Gulf of Maine forming high tides, two meters high.
And reflecting the unknown about what and with the help of the Coriolis force turns north, towards the Bay of Fundy, create tides 16 meters high ..

But there are questions:
1. Why does the "Moon tidal wave" crashing into the western shore of the Gulf of Maine does not create abnormally high tides in the south of the gulf, at least five meters high, the south of the bay is three times closer than the Bay of Fundy.
2. The frontal collision of the "Lunar Tidal Wave" falls on the western shore of the Gulf of Maine, why there are not formed thirty-meter tides, although the wedge-shaped bays and bays in the west of the Gulf of Meng are quite a lot?
3. How the Coriolis force works in the Gulf of Maine.
4. And the fourth question? By what laws, there is a reflection of a tidal wave from the Bay of Maine to the Bay of Fundy, and whether the law of reflection is in force here ..
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 26/04/2018 11:03:19
Quote
2...the wedge-shaped bays and bays in the east of the Gulf of Maine are quite numerous?
To get extreme tides, the shape, cross-section and depth of the bay must combine to provide the right resonant frequency.

Most bays won't meet this criterion.

Quote
3. How the Coriolis force works in the Gulf of Maine.
In general, the tidal bulge will rotate anti-clockwise in the northern hemisphere, driven by the Coriolis effect.
However, when you have several interacting tidal basins (eg in the Mediterranean), the adjacent tidal bulges rotate in opposite directions.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphidromic_point
Expand the world map to see the Amphidromic points close to Maine and Quebec.

Also see: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~ceknowle/Envisions/chapter11copy/part3.html
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 26/04/2018 13:48:55
In some bays (Mont-Saint-Michel), with a frequency of 10-20 years, record high tides are formed. "Lunar theory of tides," explains this phenomenon by increasing the force of gravity. But why gravity does not increase in other bays, moreover, in some bays the amplitude of tides decreases on the contrary.

And the hypothesis of precessing whirlpools, explains this phenomenon, by the coincidence of a number of facts:
1. An increase in the angular velocity of rotation of the whirlpool (prevailing winds, flood waters, Coriolis force).
2. High orbital velocity of the Earth (perihelion, new moon).
3. Large inclination of the Earth's axis, relative to the axis of the Sun (Coriolis force).
This can be easily verified by relying on the experience with the globe described below.

In the Bay of Mont-Saint-Michel, in the north of France, the amplitude of the tidal wave ranges from 5 to 15 meters. This says about the threefold oscillation of the gravitational force of the moon, and in order for this oscillation to occur, the Moon must approach the Earth three times and move not along an ellipse but on a hyperbola, while planets and satellites moving along a hyperbole break from the orbit.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: wolfekeeper on 26/04/2018 22:52:12
The actual tidal force due to the moon, is very small, just 1.1e-7g, so if you work it out that's only a couple of feet on a body like the Earth that's got a 6,300 km radius.

But water has 'slosh', or equivalently, the flow of water can resonate to some degree. So it's the resonant frequencies and Q-factor of the flow of the water that matters. Where it's highly resonant, then the tides would build up and up to a high level, but where the Q-factor is low, you'll get small tides.

The mediteranean is clearly fairly well damped, because the water has try to flow in via the Strait of Gibraltar, which is a relatively narrow channel, and the volume of the mediteranean is reasonably large, so there's no way the whole med can fill up much before the tide turns back.

You might be able to model the med quite well as a Helmholtz resonator. I haven't run the numbers, it might be interesting to do that if we can estimate them, but I bet dollars to donuts it's not resonant with a 12 hour cycle!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance

Meanwhile Spain and Portugal are fed by the Atlantic, rather than a narrow channel, so the water can slosh towards and away with much less resistance, so has a far higher Q-factor and the tidal range is inevitably much greater.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 26/04/2018 23:09:33
Quote from: Fermer05
In the Bay of Mont-Saint-Michel, in northern France, the amplitude of the tidal wave varies in the range of 1-15 meters. This says about the fifteenfold oscillation of the gravitational force of the moon,
I'm afraid not.

The tides are driven primarily by gravitational attraction of the Moon and the Sun - and the Moon is slightly stronger, because tidal influences follow an inverse-cube law.

So when the Sun and the Moon are aligned (full-moon or new-moon), the two influences add, and the driving force is a maximum. The amplitude of the tides is increasing, and continues to increase for a few days afterwards. The delay between the new moon and peak tide is called the "age of the tide", and is typically a few days to a week in most places.

But when the Sun and the Moon are at right-angle (half-moon), the two influences almost cancel out (the Moon still wins), and the driving force is a minimum. The amplitude of the tides is reducing, and continues to reduce for a few days afterwards.

This produces big swings in the amplitude of tides between "New Moon + a few days" to "Half Moon + a few days".

One factor impacting peak tides has to do with the eccentricity of the Moon's orbit (about 5%) and eccentricity of Earth's orbit (about 1.7%).
- The inverse cube law means that this effect is magnified by almost a factor of 3: The Moon's influence on tides can vary by almost 15% from closest to most distant (not "fifteenfold"=1500%); the effect of the Sun can vary by almost 5% from closest to most distant.
- If these three events coincide (full Moon/Half Moon AND Moon at its closest AND Sun at its closest), you can get very large tides.
- But different bays have a different Age of the Tide, so when one bay is experiencing it's peak tide, other bays will be experience declining tides
- What happens if the conditions that would generate an extreme high tide occur at a time when the tide in a particular bay is at mid tide? You would not get such an extreme high tide as you would get in a different year when the Sun and the Moon lined up in a different part of the sky.

Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/04/2018 06:08:09
How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are a part of the year significant, and then disappear.
What is lost, gravity or whirlpools?
Why high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.
The North of the Sea of Okhotsk, the Bay of Fundy, the Ungava Bay.
If in the north of the Bay of Fundy the tides reach a height of 18 meters, then in the east of the Gulf of Maine, the tides should reach 30-40 meters.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 27/04/2018 11:10:29
What is lost, gravity or whirlpools?
Resultant gravitational forces, hence ‘whirlpools’ ie rotations around amphidromic points.
I don’t think you have understood the above posts from @evan_au  and @wolfekeeper. Also you are misinterpreting the papers you are quoting.
It is misleading to think of the elliptic tidal bulge. At the high point the net movement is upward - away from earth centre - and at the low point downwards. In between the net movement is tangential to the earth surface and results in water flow, as @evan_au  pointed out this flow lags behind the moon overhead position.
Coriolis effects can only happen if there is a net movement of water, thus a rotating earth alone will not result in rotation around the amphidromic points, it requires the tidal effects of moon and sun to create the initial movement. Neither are winds responsible for the circulating water movements, winds raise waves which travel on the water rather than creating the circulating movement of the water itself *; if the water moved the waves would disappear, as they do in areas of wind with tide; also tidal currents regularly run in opposition to the prevailing wind.  * note winds will move surface water, but not in the direction of the wind due to Coriolis effect, these movements add or subtract from the lunar/sun effect but are not responsible for the mass water movements, specifically they do not have the periodic consistency to account for the predictability of the tides.
The timing and magnitude of this movement is a complex interplay of sun and moon positions plus the amphidromic circulations. There are spring and neap tides which clearly follow the combined positions of the sun and moon and are not explained by your ‘whirlpool’ interpretation. Sometimes the combined effect results in one of the diurnal tides being extremely low, so as to be unnoticeable - hence an apparent one tide a day.
As has been said topography plays a significant role. You mentioned the Severn estuary,  here water moving into the estuary is funnelled into an increasingly narrow area and the water piles up to give very high tides. Similarly, water moving up the English Channel meets first the Western entrance to the Solent and later the Eastern entrance resulting in a double high tide. It is worth noting that there is no whirlpool effect in the channel thus tides and currents on both the northern and southern shore move in the same direction.
Your whirlpool theory will not be able to predict the complexity of the tides around the earth whereas the earth, moon, sun, topography and amphidromic points/circulations do with great accuracy. Please reread the previous posts by @evan_au  and @wolfekeeper  in order to understand what is happening. Also this series of posts https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49715.0 by @rmolnav should be read in its entirety, it is essential to understanding the fundamentals of tidal effects.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 27/04/2018 14:58:20
Also this series of posts https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49715.0 by @rmolnav should be read in its entirety, it is essential to understanding the fundamentals of tidal effects.
Thank you.
I wish to add, as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would really happen without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 28/04/2018 01:35:43
Quote from: Fermer05
the height of the tidal wave depends on ...the orbital velocity of the Earth
Is this "orbital velocity":
- The velocity of the Earth in its orbit around the Sun? =100,000 km/h
- The velocity of the Earth's surface in its rotation around the Earth's axis? = 1700 km/h at the equator (and lower towards the poles)
- The velocity of the Earth's center around the Earth/Moon barycenter? = 35 km/h

Since tidal circulation is affected by Coriolis forces, then I suspect that the most important factor is the Earth rotating around its axis, as the Earth rotates through 360° in just 24 hours.
- The Moon's orbit takes 28 days to rotate 360°
- The Earth's orbit around the Sun takes 365 days to rotate 360°
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/04/2018 07:48:42
It is believed that the cause of the second hump is the barycenter.
And what is the cause of the solar second hump?
If the Moon and the Earth rotate around the barycenter, the radius from the barycenter to the Earth is too small to form a second hump.
In the East China Sea, diurnal and semidiurnal tides are formed, as the barycenter explains, this should not be.
It turns out that, from east to west in the Pacific Ocean, daily and semidiurnal tidal waves move, this should not be.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 28/04/2018 09:39:00
If the Moon and the Earth rotate around the barycenter, the radius from the barycenter to the Earth is too small to form a second hump.
Please show your calculations that show this is so

Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/04/2018 10:43:23
To make calculations you need time.
First you need to look at the existing calculations.
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/04/2018 12:43:30
Moon Tidal Wave "is 100 percent close to the real one, you can simulate if you spin a tennis ball with a hanging drop of water. The ball is Earth, a drop of water is a tidal hump, and the Earth is the Moon. And what turns out, the continents will break into the tidal hump, supersonic speed of 1600 km per hour and turn the Earth into a continuous ocean with two poles, and the movement of a tidal hump with a lower speed is impossible to make, then the hump will move towards the rotation of the Earth, regardless of the gravity of the moon. "Lunar tidal hump "height of even 1 cm, I suppose, for the Earth a catastrophe, for the kinetic energy of the "tidal current" is concentrated not in the height of the hump, but in the thickness and velocity of the water.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/04/2018 13:04:41
To make calculations you need time.
First you need to look at the existing calculations.
We can't look at your calculations unless you post them.
If you are saying you have not done the maths, what are you using as the basis of your post?
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/04/2018 13:46:33
The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth:
Tidal forces are now successfully used, as a plug from many secrets of nature.
In fact, they exist only theoretically, but practically, they have not been fixed by any gravimetric device.
Acceleration of free fall at the equator is less than at the poles: at the equator is 978 gal, and at the poles - 983 gal.
There is no data on the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.

The geostationary satellite of the Earth, acting as part of the Earth, is in zero gravity, at a distance of 35,000 km. from the Earth, and for some reason, is not exposed to the tidal influence of the Moon, despite the fact that the "tidal force" in the Earth-satellite system is 5 times greater than on Earth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit
If the oceans and continents that are under the satellite, the moon raises, "by 0.5 m, then the satellite which is in zero gravity, the Moon should easily attract to itself, especially during the new moon, and the parade of the planets.
And it must not be forgotten that the oceans and continents are attracted by the Earth, and the satellite is in zero gravity ..

If the tidal forces existed, then the pressure of water and air would certainly react, especially during the parade of the planets.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 28/04/2018 23:03:49
The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth:
It does. NIST and others measure the uplift of earth surface and measure gravimetric effect.

There is no data on the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.
it is there if you search for it, but I suspect you won’t want to try and expect to be spoon fed.
There is a long history of measuring solid earth tides eg http://www.bidstonobservatory.org.uk/earth-tides/
Or
https://watermark.silverchair.com/125-1-106.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAbIwggGuBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGfMIIBmwIBADCCAZQGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMGT08BWeSTnQp5XrpAgEQgIIBZde8q6N4D3SLR6rpZesye1qyqgozQsoUwU5jFGJX63b283Jpn7glcxhnlUxEe811HvGOWMV3r6fFXM7CHU0BdSDpUvKC8JfebPc63xlRkPqPdtnLFnFLYjI_HFVkKCoX8o3IOec-48mdVr1XP_m104RSVDATU9I_1TpwrAXDnArwfGKsfx6qJhmmBtrwEKjgoRNgjIYuk87CJmuOPimbZ5qR6axPw_Q2ZsPed6lnf4zAZWpcZKs5qvKuGlJxD_O8aKDmyrXXClUKa3N-FEH1L92n9Fkw97ONkIFN3ezNKAuXdTVfDA9DFnXhiOnhb9ocHncJmnlzrohjoYAPjByyUIJ4kArAzqo21LLC5tsCG5mSRj8BI_IWtoWX37FIlV-kI18alfy2Ag6t8lNYGifeP3ZphPPfWkiyl87aquCmA7O6aKuCyKSVfrq6zKUXcpbsfh6TT_kWMHrf-X9J_d8wxDXhWl331A
You could also search for papers from NIST at their Boulder site.

The geostationary satellite of the Earth, acting as part of the Earth, is in zero gravity,

at a distance of 35,000 km. from the Earth, and for some reason, is not exposed to the tidal influence of the Moon,
It is a common misconception that satellites are in zero gravity, this is not true, if they were they could not maintain an orbit.
GPS satellites have to have timing corrected for influence of moon which deflects their orbit.

These posts are not only going off topic but are making ridiculous, unscientific suggestion and so will be moved.

You might also answer this question
To make calculations you need time.
First you need to look at the existing calculations.
We can't look at your calculations unless you post them.
If you are saying you have not done the maths, what are you using as the basis of your post?
If you state that the radius is too small, you must have made a calculation in order to reach that conclusion, please show it.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 28/04/2018 23:46:19
Quote from: Fermer05
The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth
Incorrect.
Gravitational force follows an inverse-square law, so it reaches "to infinity", although it gets weaker with distance.
Because tides are created as the difference between the gravitational force at two points, tidal forces follows an inverse-cube law.

Quote
Acceleration of free fall at the equator is less than at the poles: at the equator is 978 gal, and at the poles - 983 gal
Earth is rotating, and so centrifugal force (and its effect on the equatorial bulge) means that surface acceleration is about 0.5% lower at the equator than at the poles.

The variation in Earth's surface acceleration due to gravity is about +/-5% at different points on the surface - this is much larger than the variation between equator and poles.
Columbia is about +5%, while the Yucatan area is about -5%. They are both fairly close to the equator, and each other.
To understand local variations, you must understand the local geology and history.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth#Latitude

Quote
The geostationary satellite of the Earth... for some reason, is not exposed to the tidal influence of the Moon
Not correct.
The orbit of geostationary satellites must be continually adjusted to compensate for the gravity of Moon and Sun. When their stationkeeping fuel is exhausted, the satellite must be retired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_station-keeping

Quote
If the tidal forces existed, then the pressure of water and air would certainly react,
Air and water do interact - if you mix air and water (eg during a rainstorm), the water moves down and the air moves up.
- The pressure in water (eg a lake) increases much more quickly as you go down than it decreases as you move up in the air.
- This is due to the fact that water has a density of 1 kg/liter, while air has a density of around 1g/liter.

Tides also occur in the atmosphere - but the pressure changes are dominated by the heating effects of the Sun.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_tide

Quote
the parade of the planets.
Due to their much greater distances from Earth, and the inverse-cube effect of tidal forces, the planets have a minimal effect compared to the Sun and the Moon.
- The next most likely is Jupiter, with 1% the mass of the Sun, but even at its closest, it is 4 times farther than the Sun.
- So the tidal influence of Jupiter = 0.01 / 43 = 0.00015 of the tidal effect of the Sun
- And the Sun's tidal effect is less than the Moon
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/04/2018 08:03:03
As the tidal forces of the earth stopped the rotation of the moon, if the side of the moon turned to the earth is concave, and the underside of the moon is convex.
Laser altimeters of the ships "Apollo-15, -17" showed that the visible side of the Moon lies below the average level, and the invisible side is higher than it.
In cosmonautics it is already a proven fact that the area of the attraction of the moon is limited to 10 thousand kilometers from the surface of the moon,
artificial satellites of the moon with an orbit radius of more than 10 thousand km. break from the orbit.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/04/2018 08:51:38
In cosmonautics it is already a proven fact that the area of the attraction of the moon is limited to 10 thousand kilometers from the surface of the moon,

Are you  going to back up that assertion with evidence, or should we all just ignore it and laugh at you?
Here's a link to a page where they discuss the effect of the moon on satellites at much greater distances.
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/52vinv/how_much_if_at_all_does_the_moons_gravity_effect/
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/04/2018 10:07:32
The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool. And the height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the whirlpool of the orbital velocity of the Earth, and the time of the tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).

The formula A = V1 • V2 / t does not fully reflect the essence of the phenomenon of tides.
The amplitude of the tides also depends on the size of the whirlpools, the amount of water under the whirlpool, the distance from the coast to the whirlpool, and the inclination of the Earth's equator relative to the Earth's orbit.
You can predict the height of the tides and experimentally, catching the connection between the height of the tidal wave with the rotation speed of the whirlpool, in this area, using a remote tachometer
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/04/2018 15:43:35
You said this bit before
A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
And someone pointed out that the earth has more than one orbital velocity.

You seem not to understand that this makes your equation meaningless.

Why did you post it again?
Were you hoping we would forget?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Kryptid on 30/04/2018 01:25:15
In cosmonautics it is already a proven fact that the area of the attraction of the moon is limited to 10 thousand kilometers from the surface of the moon,
artificial satellites of the moon with an orbit radius of more than 10 thousand km. break from the orbit.

Wrong. Gravimeters on Earth can detect the passage of the Moon overhead by the way it changes the strength of the local gravitational field.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 30/04/2018 05:46:40
Also, there is no convincing evidence and facts, deformation of the Earth's continents under the influence of tidal forces.
Although deformation of the continents can be easily verified by aiming the telescope to the top of a mountain or to a geostationary satellite.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 30/04/2018 16:04:23
This was moved to new theories, so I thought I would say something.

High tide close to moon has an effect on the opposite side of the planet.

Should have.

The question is how that oceanic fluidity works.

Apart from saying it works, we're asking "how" it works.

Is the Moon "directly" responsible for tides? Of course. Is there an opposite effect on the planet? Of course.
 Why?





Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 30/04/2018 16:12:59
This process would have gone on for so many years before (or after?) it became harmonic, right?


Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 30/04/2018 17:37:01
This was moved to new theories, so I thought I would say something.
The thread you posted in is in Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology not in the lighter section! It hasn’t been moved.
This is the one that was moved https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.0

You are restricted to the lighter sections
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 30/04/2018 17:51:15
The existence of tidal humpbacks from textbooks would mean a constant movement
scary trillion tons of sea water on the world's oceans.
This phenomenon in nature as something not observed.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 30/04/2018 23:35:06
As the tidal forces of the earth stopped the rotation of the moon, if the side of the moon turned to the earth is concave, and the underside of the moon is convex.
Laser altimeters of the ships "Apollo-15, -17" showed that the visible side of the Moon lies below the average level, and the invisible side is higher than it.
This makes no sense. No part of the moon is concave other than the craters.

In cosmonautics it is already a proven fact that the area of the attraction of the moon is limited to 10 thousand kilometers from the surface of the moon,
artificial satellites of the moon with an orbit radius of more than 10 thousand km. break from the orbit.
This is incorrect.
There is nothing to stop an object going into lunar orbit other than it’s speed, however, many lunar orbits are unstable. In low lunar orbits mass anomalies (mascons) make the orbits unstable, whereas orbits far out get into the influence of the earth’s gravitational field eventually pulling them off course.

Also, there is no convincing evidence and facts, deformation of the Earth's continents under the influence of tidal forces.
The evidence is only unconvincing if you choose to ignore it.
Plenty of studies on the net, search and ye shall find.
Here is one on the measurement of moon gravity on earth. https://academic.oup.com/gji/article-pdf/125/1/106/5889847/125-1-106.pdf
There are also regular measurements by a team working on Mt Etna who monitor deformations of the ground by the moon.
NIST at Boulder also measure these.

Although deformation of the continents can be easily verified by aiming the telescope to the top of a mountain or to a geostationary satellite.
Neither of these would work.

The existence of tidal humpbacks from textbooks would mean a constant movement
scary trillion tons of sea water on the world's oceans.
This phenomenon in nature as something not observed.
Have you ever worked out how much water flows with the tides? The numbers are scary because there is a lot of water in the oceans.
And yes it is observed in nature.

To make calculations you need time.
First you need to look at the existing calculations.
We can't look at your calculations unless you post them.
If you are saying you have not done the maths, what are you using as the basis of your post?
You still haven’t answered this!
As you don’t seem willing to back up your claims and insist on posting incorrect information, I see no point in continuing this discussion.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/05/2018 18:45:18
Mathematically, it is very difficult to express a theory.
I think the main physical expression of the theory.
That's what people write who understand the meaning of the theory:

All very accurately and competently, well done, it's amazing that this version was not announced and realized earlier, because circular movements of tidal waves along the coasts were known for a long time. You need to specify your full name at the beginning of the article, the country should know its heroes, discoverers, and also publish in the VIKI article in the TINS ​​section, I think your
The determination of the cause of tides should take place in all encyclopedias. And more boldly, formulate not as a possible version, but as the truth in the last resort ..
----------------------------------
I read honestly the whole article - not 15 minutes, of course, a little more to penetrate. Even in some links came with maps. For the "ordinary person" it will be uninteresting and pointless - unnecessary "garbage" in the head, but for those who are previously fond of or continue to be fond of astrophysics, astronomy or planetary climate, from the scientific point of view - very much.
That for me - this article and the hypothesis set forth in it seemed to me close, tk. I was once a lover of astronomy and re-read many scientific papers, "Astronomical annual calendars" and similar accompanying literature.
Virtually all the calculations in the article are quite logical. The article liked and appeared a vision of the causes of tides and tsunamis on the other hand. Moon tides - for a long time it is clear that this is a "hypothesized ears" hypothesis, turned into a physical law for schoolchildren. The author - offset for the depth of penetration into the topic! Very interesting! Thank you!
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/05/2018 19:27:04
Mathematically, it is very difficult to express the theory
Then perhaps we should stick with ordinary Newtonian physics which is expressible as maths and which has explained tides for a few centuries.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/05/2018 08:40:59
Galileo called the theory of tides frivolous, a sad return to the realm of mystical ravings and preferred to explain the tides, the rotation of the Earth.
Charles Darwin wrote in 1911: "There is no need to seek antique literature for the grotesque theories of tides." However, sailors manage to measure their height and use the opportunities of tides, without having an idea of the real causes of their occurrence.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/05/2018 21:57:19
Galileo called the theory of tides frivolous,
Unless he could time travel, he didn't call the Newtonian theory frivolous.
Charles Darwin wrote in 1911:
Are you talking about the famous Charles Darwin who had died about 30 years earlier, or some other guy with the same name?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/05/2018 22:19:42
I apologize! Darwin George Howard.
https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Darwin
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 03/05/2018 19:44:44
The wiki page cites this as one of his works, and it agrees pretty much with the Newtonian version.

http://www.1902encyclopedia.com/T/TID/tides-03.html

What point did you think you were making?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 04/05/2018 08:20:58
http: /.../ forum.web.ru/viewforum.php?f=4
Forum of the Moscow State University "All about geology". Cuca 731 posts
Only the blind does not see that the conventional explanation of tides, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality. Time has come to understand and with this, i.e. It's time to shake off the official noodles from the ears.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 07/05/2018 12:51:51
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tide
The lunar theory of tides is too complex, it can not be studied, I think there is no person on earth who knows this theory.
Before accepting or refuting the theory, it must be examined.
Anyone who understands this theory, he will refuse it.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/05/2018 13:50:46
conventional explanation of tides, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality.
In what way?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 07/05/2018 14:37:23
So when the Moon is closest it pulls close.

And on the opposite of the planet there's meant to be an equal outward pull?


Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 07/05/2018 18:25:21
According to the whirlpool theory of tides, the tidal hump on the reverse side of the earth should be larger.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 07/05/2018 22:32:56
Quote from: Fermer05
sailors manage to measure (the height of tides)... without having an idea of the real causes of their occurrence.
Measuring the height of tides just needs a fixed scale against which to measure the height of the water, and a low-frequency filter that can remove the higher-frequency "noise" of the waves.

Unfortunately, there is no "fixed scale" in the middle of the oceans, since your boat tends to move up and down with the tide. So sailors could not measure tides when they were out to sea.

Seeing where tides originate had to wait for the introduction of radar satellites that could accurately measure the height of the tides at all points on the ocean's surface. Now we can model global tide heights on computers, we feel we have a good picture of the influences on the tides - and whirlpools aren't the primary driver.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 08/05/2018 09:49:13
The calendar of tides is based on observations of long-term data.
It existed before the discovery of the theory of tides.
Where the rotation speed of the whirlpools the constant height of the tides does not change, the rotation speed of the whirlpools usually changes in the bays.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 08/05/2018 11:43:32
If I can help, may I highlight the following.

The Moon revolves around this planet.

The planet "spins".

The spin of the planet is at a greater rotation than the Moon around the planet.

The tidal movement is only a few metres, yet adjusted to the Moon.

Of course there would be a pull of the planet to the Moon closest to the Moon, and this is accommodated by a high tide closest to the Moon.

Yet the Earth is a whirlpool of its own, spinning faster that the Moon rotates around the Earth.

So.....for that spin and its own whirlpool to be balanced needs a counterweight high tide on the opposite face of the Earth facing the Moon, right?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/05/2018 19:53:05

Only the blind does not see that the conventional explanation of tides, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality.
And again...
In what way?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/05/2018 10:39:54
http: /.../ forum.web.ru/viewforum.php?f=4

Forum of the Moscow State University "All about geology". Cuca 731 posts
Only the blind does not see that the conventional explanation of tides, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality. Time has come to understand and with this, i.e. It's time to shake off the official noodles from the ears.
I think the author means in the literal sense.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/05/2018 19:46:59
the conventional explanation of tides, ..., does not correspond to reality.
In what way?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 10/05/2018 15:01:37
http: /.../ forum.web.ru/viewforum.php?f=4

Forum of the Moscow State University "All about geology". Cuca 731 posts
Only the blind does not see that the conventional explanation of tides, to put it mildly, does not correspond to reality. Time has come to understand and with this, i.e. It's time to shake off the official noodles from the ears.
I think the author has in mind that the official theory of tides is not true.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 10/05/2018 16:28:36
How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are a part of the year significant, and then disappear.
What is lost, gravity or whirlpools?
Why high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.
The North of the Sea of Okhotsk, the Bay of Fundy, the Ungava Bay.
If in the north of the Bay of Fundy the tides reach a height of 18 meters, then in the east of the Gulf of Maine, the tides should reach 30-40 meters.
Very interesting question, but no one answered it.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 10/05/2018 19:11:30
the conventional explanation of tides, ..., does not correspond to reality.
In what way?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 11/05/2018 16:00:32
500 years ago, when the idea of ​​tides was forming, the thinkers did not have enough technical means to test this idea about whirlpools and gyroscopes, nothing was known.
And today this idea with its simplicity and plausibility is so ingrained in the minds of the public and thinkers that it will not be easy to abandon it.
The tidal calendar existed long before the opening of the tidal wave, compiled by the "poke method", as they are today. As there was also a normal calendar up to Ptolemy and after Ptolemy, and to Copernicus, and after Copernicus.
Galileo called the Moon theory of tides, frivolous, sad return to the realm of mystical ravings and preferred to explain the tides, the rotation of the Earth.
D.G. Darwin wrote in 1911: "There is no need to seek antique literature for the grotesque theories of tides." However, sailors manage to measure their height and use the opportunities of tides, without having an idea of ​​the real causes of their occurrence.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/05/2018 01:18:32
It isn't a complicated question I'm asking.
You said "the conventional explanation of tides, ..., does not correspond to reality."

I keep asking in what way does the conventional explanation not correspond to reality.
You can't answer that, because it really does correspond to reality.

So why do you keep posting nonsense, rather than simply admitting you were mistaken?

Either accept that the conventional Newtonian explanation works, or explain what evidence you think you have which shows that it does not work.

Misquoting dead people is not an answer.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 12/05/2018 02:40:23
Quote from: Fermer05
And today this idea (of Moon-driven tides) with its simplicity and plausibility is so ingrained in the minds of the public and thinkers that it will not be easy to abandon it.
I agree.

The idea ingrained in most people's minds (if they think about it at all) is that the gravity of the Moon attracts a hump of water on the side of the Earth closest to the Moon. As the Earth rotates, this hump of water is dragged around the Earth under the Moon. Unfortunately, this only accounts for 1 tide per day, rather than the 2 which occur in most places.

Those with a bit more physics realise that the Moon acts on the center of mass of the Earth, so as well as a hump on the side facing the Moon (due to increased Lunar gravity), there is a hump on the other side too, due to reduced Lunar gravity. This accounts for 2 tides per day, but unfortunately does not take into account the fact that there are currently extensive north-south land masses (like North/South America and Europe/Africa) blocking these humps from propagating around the Earth.

With radar satellites, we now know that the tidal humps propagate in a circular path within each ocean basin. Where two ocean basins touch (such as in the Mediterranean), the tidal humps tend to rotate in opposite directions, so that energy loss is minimised.

When an ocean wave passes a point in the deep ocean, the water molecules move while the wave passes, but there is no net movement of the water molecule as a result of the wave. The same occurs for tides - the water molecules in the deep ocean slosh this way and that as the tidal hump passes, but there is no net movement of the water molecules as a result of the tide.

So I agree that the common view of Moon-driven humps (and the very uncommon view of Moon-driven whirlpools) will both be very hard to dispel.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 12/05/2018 03:42:39
Quote from: Fermer05
How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are a part of the year significant, and then disappear.
What is lost, gravity or whirlpools?
As it happens, soon after your post about Fremantle, @chris flew from the UK to Fremantle to check it out*.

He reported no signs of giant whirlpools in the southern Indian Ocean, and so he can neither confirm nor deny your hypothesis that tides in Fremantle are caused by such whirlpools.

* Actually, he was there for an entirely independent reason...
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/05/2018 04:41:44
Question?
In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal current or tidal wave moves and at what speed.

The velocity of the Earth's surface relative to the Moon is 1,700 km / h.
Then what is the speed of the tidal wave?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/05/2018 11:37:01

Question?
In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal current or wave moves and at what speed.

It isn't a complicated question I'm asking.
You said "the conventional explanation of tides, ..., does not correspond to reality."

I keep asking in what way does the conventional explanation not correspond to reality.
You can't answer that, because it really does correspond to reality.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/05/2018 06:30:41
It isn't a complicated question I'm asking.
what evidence do you have
1. In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal current or tidal wave moves and at what speed.
2. How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are part of the year significant, and then disappear.
3. Why abnormally high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.
4. Why are tidal waves moving strictly along the perimeter of lakes, seas and oceans, and not from east to west, following the Moon?
5. As the current of the western winds manages to move from west to east, at a speed of 5 km / h, wiping the ocean floor, while the tidal wave flows from east to west at a speed of 800 km / h, wiping the ocean floor.
6. Why is not tidal current used to move ships from east to west.
7. It is believed that the cause of the second hump is the barycenter.
And what is the cause of the solar second hump?
8. As long as the tidal wave makes one revolution around the Earth, the Moon makes two turns, how is the gravitational connection between the Moon and the tidal hump?
9. Tidal forces have been used successfully to date, as a plug from many of the mysteries of nature.
In fact, they exist only theoretically, but practically, they have not been fixed by any gravimetric device.
Acceleration of free fall at the equator is less than at the poles: at the equator is 978 gal, and at the poles - 983 gal.
There is no data on the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.
10. The way to refute the whirlpool theory is to show coves and bays where there are fast rotating whirlpools, but there are no abnormally high tides.
11. Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Tides:
http://mypages.iit.edu/~johnsonpo/smart00/lesson4.htm#tidefaqs
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/05/2018 06:40:08
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/05/2018 06:41:31
Tides and ebbs are formed not along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only in those coasts where the high angular velocity of the currents (1-5 km / h).
On the rectilinear coasts, where currents do not have angular velocity, tides and ebbs do not form.
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, the height of the tides in the Penzhina Bay increases to 12 meters.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/41.png
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Gulf of Maine, the height of the tides in the Bay of Fundy rises to 18 meters.
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-content/images/circulation/fig4.jpg
"Record high tide in the Bay of Fundy - 21.6 meters - occurred only once in the history of observations, on the night of October 4 to October 5 in 1869 under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale."
On the night of October 4 to 5, in 1869, under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale, "a record rainfall fell over the river basins flowing into the Bay of Fundy (300 mm in one day), so that the waters of the Bay of Fundy poured into the Gulf of Maine and increased the speed of rotation a whirlpool in the Gulf of Maine.
http://www.gulfofmaine.org/ebm/toolkitsurvey/images/exec-sum-2.jpg
Cyclone Saxby Gale rotating counter-clockwise, also contributed to the unraveling of the whirlpool.
In an abnormally cold winter and during a drought, when rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy merge, the height of the tides does not exceed 1 meter.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/05/2018 07:02:38
According to the lunar theory of tides, the earth's crust at the latitude of Moscow, with a frequency of two times a day, rises and falls with an amplitude of about 20 cm, at the equator the swing of oscillations exceeds half a meter.
Then why, the highest tides are formed in the temperate zones and not at the equator?
The highest tides on Earth are formed in the Fandi Bay in North America - 18 m, at the mouth of the Severn River in England - 16 m, in the Bay of Mont-Saint-Michel in France - 15 m, in the mouths of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Penzhinskaya and Gizhiginskaya - 13 m , at the cape Nerpinsky in the Mezensky Bay - 11 m.
The swirling theory of tides explains this inconsistency by the absence of whirlpools at the equator, as well as cyclones and anticyclones.
To form whirlpools, cyclones and anticyclones, the deflecting force of Coriolis is needed. At the equator, the Coriolis force is minimal and in the temperate zones, it is maximal.
And another question: in the ocean there are two humps
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 13/05/2018 08:07:59
Quote from: Fermer05
List of Questions
I can only address a few of your questions from general knowledge, so here goes...

Quote
2. How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are part of the year significant, and then disappear.
In fact, this happens everywhere, just with different amplitude and timings in different places.
There is a peak tide, which occurs about 3-7 days after the Sun and Moon line up. Then there is also a low-tide period abut 2 weeks later.
This can be complicated by other tidal drivers that are more significant in some places than in others, due to local resonance effects.
Quote
3. Why abnormally high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.
Mont St Michel (included in your list below) is on the eastern side of the Atlantic.
Alaska (included in your list below) is on the eastern side of the North Pacific.
Colombia is on the eastern side of the equatorial Pacific.
Quote
4. Why are tidal waves moving strictly along the perimeter of lakes, seas and oceans, and not from east to west, following the Moon?
This was only true in the days when tides were measured on the shore.
Now, with radar satellites, we can measure tides moving in the middle of the ocean.
Quote
5. As the current of the western winds manages to move from west to east, at a speed of 5 km / h, wiping the ocean floor
I am not sure what you mean by "current of the western winds"; are you talking about winds, or ocean currents?
The Gulf Stream is an ocean current of warm water that flows from the Gulf of Mexico towards the UK.
This was used to assist sailing ships traveling from the Americas back to Europe.
Quote
, while the tidal wave flows from east to west at a speed of 800 km / h, wiping the ocean floor.
Note that in English, "tidal wave" has two distinct common meanings, both of them somewhat misleading: One is a sudden wave created by an undersea earthquake, the other (wrongly) imagines that the tide is a wave which propagates around the world. It is probably better to use:
- "Tsunami" (a Japanese word) for earthquake waves
- "Tide" for the second one (I have used tidal "hump", in an attempt to be descriptive).

It is true that tidal waves (tsunamis) do travel with a speed of around 800km/h in the deep ocean, although that drops to perhaps 80hm/h near the coast.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunami#Characteristics
What this reference tells you is that once the wavelength of a wave exceeds the depth of water, it's velocity is roughly the same - around 800km/h in deep water.
- This applies to tsunamis (period of a few minutes to a few hours)
- And also the tide (period of a bit over 12 hours in most places)
The circumference of the Earth is about 40,000km, so for the tide to propagate as a wave would take about 50 hours, or about 4 times what is observed. This tells us that the tide does not propagate as a wave, but is driven by the gravity of Moon+Sun.

Quote
6. Why is not tidal current used to move ships from east to west.
Because the tide is a passing wave, which produces no net movement of water, and so cannot produce a net movement of shipping.
Quote
7. It is believed that the cause of the second hump is the barycenter.
And what is the cause of the solar second hump?
Two mixed-up questions here:
- It presumes that the Sun's gravitation will produce a tidal "hump" which is different from the Moon's tidal hump. In fact, it is the sum of the tidal effects of Sun and Moon that produces a pair of humps, roughly on opposite sides of the Earth (a physicist would describe it as a "vector sum" of the tidal forces). There are not 4 distinct humps, 2 for the Sun and 2 for the Moon.
- It presumes that there is a single barycenter. In fact, there is a barycenter of the Earth-Moon system (which is inside the Earth, and can be ignored when calculating the height of tides driven by the Sun), and a separate Sun-Earth/Moon barycenter (which is inside the Sun, and can be ignored when calculating the height of tides driven by the Moon). The total motion of the Earth and Moon includes the motion around both barycenters.
Quote
8. As long as the tidal wave makes one revolution around the Earth, the Moon makes two turns, how is the gravitational connection between the Moon and the tidal hump?
You have this backwards. In most places on Earth, there are 2 tides per day.
The two tidal "humps" pass a given point while the Moon makes one rotation of the Earth.

Quote
9. According to the lunar theory of tides, the earth's crust at the latitude of Moscow, with a frequency of two times a day, rises and falls with an amplitude of about 20 cm, at the equator the swing of oscillations exceeds half a meter.
Then why, the highest tides are formed in the temperate zones and not at the equator?
Two mixed-up questions here:
- When we measure tides, we are measuring a difference in height: "sea tide" - "land tide".
- Colombia is on the eastern side of the equatorial Pacific, so extreme tides can occur near the equator, if local resonances are favorable. And Madagascar is not that far from the equator.
Quote
The highest tides on Earth are formed in the Fandi Bay in North America - 18 m, at the mouth of the Severn River in England - 16 m, in the Bay of Mont-Saint-Michel in France - 15 m, in the mouths of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Penzhinskaya and Gizhiginskaya - 13 m , at the cape Nerpinsky in the Mezensky Bay - 11 m.
Quote
10. Tidal forces have been used successfully to date, as a plug from many of the mysteries of nature.
In fact, they exist only theoretically, but practically, they have not been fixed by any gravimetric device.
Acceleration of free fall at the equator is less than at the poles: at the equator is 978 gal, and at the poles - 983 gal.
There is no data on the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.
There is such data, see this story from 2016, where researchers were able to measure the daily gravitational tugs of both Sun and Moon, in the basement of their laboratory.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/fossil-fuels/stampsized-gravity-meter-could-have-big-impact-on-oil-exploration

Quote
11. The way to refute the whirlpool theory is to show coves and bays where there are fast rotating whirlpools, but there are no abnormally high tides.
An alternative is to show that high tides occur where there are no large whirlpools (tiny whirlpools are inevitable wherever there is turbulence, such as along a coastline).
Quote
12. Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Tides:
http:/.../mypages.iit.edu/~johnsonpo/smart00/lesson4.htm#tidefaqs
This web page and it's links seem to present well-described science. You should try reading it, Fermer.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/05/2018 08:48:09
So when the Moon is closest it pulls close.

And on the opposite of the planet there's meant to be an equal outward pull?
Do you understand that the Earth/Moon system is rotating about its centre of gravity?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/05/2018 09:38:26
Because the tide is a passing wave, which produces no net movement of water, and so cannot produce a net movement of shipping.
This is the correct answer !!!
Question?
In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal wave moves at what speed.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/05/2018 10:35:04

Because the tide is a passing wave, which produces no net movement of water, and so cannot produce a net movement of shipping.
This is the correct answer !!!
Question?
In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal wave moves at what speed.
I'm glad you have now accepted that the conventional answer is the correct one.

The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/05/2018 16:01:49
The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.
It is very pleasant to see figures and this is the language of facts and practical mechanics

Question?
If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4

Now we need to find out at what speed from east to west the current flows, at least approximately.
Four tidal hills per day, which move from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph, should create a decent speed.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: evan_au on 13/05/2018 22:37:43
Quote from: Fermer05
Four tidal hills per day
The total tidal effect of Moon (larger) and Sun (smaller) produces a tidal force whose magnitude depends on the vector sum of the tidal force from Sun & Moon.

This vector has a maximum, not 2 maxima.

This single maximum generates 2 hills/humps, not 4.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 14/05/2018 08:47:45
The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.
It is very pleasant to see figures and this is the language of facts and practical mechanics

Question?
If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4

Now we need to find out at what speed from east to west the current flows, at least approximately.
Two tidal hills per day, which move from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph, should create a decent speed.
As we see in the picture, at the equator in the north and south the current moves from west to east.
All the way around!
https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/279856564317644726/
https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/310537336784446596/
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/05/2018 19:41:58
The top of the tidal bulge moves at something like 1000 miles per hour at the equator (and near zero at the poles).
But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast.
It is very pleasant to see figures and this is the language of facts and practical mechanics

Question?
If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https:/.../m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4

Now we need to find out at what speed from east to west the current flows, at least approximately.
Four tidal hills per day, which move from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph, should create a decent speed.

Nonsense.
Which bit of "But it is important to recognise that no water actually moves that fast." did you not understand?

Imagine a planet covered in sand with lots of bricks scattered about it.
I walk round the planet picking up bricks and then putting them back where they were.
Does that create a "current" of bricks?

Incidentally, at sea level, in air at any sensible temperature, 1000 mph is definitely supersonic.
That's pretty good proof that nothing actually moves that fast..
It's like calculating how fast the point of intersection between two blades of a pair of scissors travels.
It moves a lot faster than the blades do- but it's not a "real thing".
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 15/05/2018 06:37:20
If the tidal hump moves from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph (this is almost supersonic speed)
And on this video it is so
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
https:/.../youtu.be/pwChk4S99i4
According to the lunar theory of tides, the Earth's crust at the latitude of London, with a frequency of twice a day, rises and falls with an amplitude of about 20 cm, at the equator the swing of oscillations exceeds half a meter.
What is the height of the tidal hill at the equator?
Who conducted the measurements and how, or are these figures taken from the ceiling?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 15/05/2018 08:19:33
Galileo called the Moon theory of tides, frivolous, sad return to the realm of mystical ravings and preferred to explain the tides, the rotation of the Earth.
Galileo made some very insightful discoveries, but he also missed making the connection with many others. If he had followed up on the ‘mystical ravings’ we would now be referring to Galileo’s Laws of Gravity. As it was it was left to Newton to make those insights and understand the effect of moon and gravity.

The tidal calendar existed long before the opening of the tidal wave, compiled by the "poke method", as they are today. As there was also a normal calendar up to Ptolemy and after Ptolemy, and to Copernicus, and after Copernicus.
The influence of the Moon on tides was mentioned in Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos as having been derived from ancient observation. Newton recognised the role of the moon and Laplace started the first steps to producing accurate forecasts of tides (not using the inaccurate ‘poke’ methods).

What is the height of the tidal hill at the equator?
You really are missing the point here. The question is not the height of any bulge, but the periodicity of the variation in heights. This periodicity is, as explained previously, the combined effect of Moon and Sun.
Please show your calculations to explain spring and neap tides and their exact periodicity.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 15/05/2018 08:30:14
It SURPRISES me this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would really happen without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”.
And subsequently, erroneous things are being said, since the proposition of the question.
Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
How “on Earth” the OP can say:
"The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth”? … (!!!)
Has he never had any experience similar to mine?
I suggest anybody interested to have a look at :
where it´s clearly seen that daily movement of the bulges is only apparent, that they are almost still and it is the solid part of our planet (though also the bulk of ocean waters due to friction) what is actually spinning …
The formation of the bulges is a rather slow process (some 28 days the complete cycle, as far as Moon related tides are concerned, and one full year in the case of Sun related tides) … Nothing to do with all those daily local whirlpools, due to the much faster Earth spin, and with any other local singularity.
NO single local daily phenomenon should be used to try to refute the FACT that Moon and Sun gravitational pulls, together with inertial effects (unveiled by Newton long ago), are the root causes of “globalized” tides. Physical details on how those tides happen can be discussed, because even there is no general agreement on things such as centrifugal forces, and other issues inherent in the complexity of nature ... But mentioned FACT can be seen by everybody, and matches with BASIC physics laws !!! 
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Thebox on 15/05/2018 08:47:02
It SURPRISES me this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would really happen without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”.
And subsequently, erroneous things are being said, since the proposition of the question.
Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
How “on Earth” the OP can say:
"The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth”? … (!!!)
Has he never had any experience similar to mine?
I suggest anybody interested to have a look at :
where it´s clearly seen that daily movement of the bulges is only apparent, that they are almost still and it is the solid part of our planet (though also the bulk of ocean waters due to friction) what is actually spinning …
The formation of the bulges is a rather slow process (some 28 days the complete cycle, as far as Moon related tides are concerned, and one full year in the case of Sun related tides) … Nothing to do with all those daily local whirlpools, due to the much faster Earth spin, and with any other local singularity.
NO single local daily phenomenon should be used to try to refute the FACT that Moon and Sun gravitational pulls, together with inertial effects (unveiled by Newton long ago), are the root causes of “globalized” tides. Physical details on how those tides happen can be discussed, because even there is no general agreement on things such as centrifugal forces, and other issues inherent in the complexity of nature ... But mentioned FACT can be seen by everybody, and matches with BASIC physics laws !!! 
Thank you for sharing that video, I do not want to ruin this thread with my science so I will step back out.  But I will leave you with this:

The Natural ''flow'' of the ocean is East to West   ←   The Moon pulls the natural ''flow'' the opposite way →

When the Moon ''let's go'' , the ocean returns to it's normal ''flow''.

Ok im out , sorry for intruding. Apologies for posting in other peoples thread.

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Thebox on 15/05/2018 08:57:20
Here, have a picture .

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 15/05/2018 10:31:10
If I can help, may I highlight the following.

The Moon revolves around this planet.

The planet "spins".

The spin of the planet is at a greater rotation than the Moon around the planet.

The tidal movement is only a few metres, yet adjusted to the Moon.

Of course there would be a pull of the planet to the Moon closest to the Moon, and this is accommodated by a high tide closest to the Moon.

Yet the Earth is a whirlpool of its own, spinning faster that the Moon rotates around the Earth.

So.....for that spin and its own whirlpool to be balanced needs a counterweight high tide on the opposite face of the Earth facing the Moon, right?

I'll refer to this same question again as quoted.

Working out the physics of why there are two tides a day, one on one side of the planet facing the moon, the other on the other side, taking tides are a liquid phenomena, not necessarily stuck like rock to rock, as the planet spins faster than the Moon rotates around it, and both these bodies are "in harmony", maybe the problem of explaining this is how gravity works according to contemporary theory?

 
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 15/05/2018 10:34:03
I think we're not thinking out-there enough.

How do liquids separate from solids, and by what tension of viscosity do liquids act like solids, and under what temperature variations, for instance.....



Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 15/05/2018 11:34:14
The Natural ''flow'' of the ocean is East to West 
Apologies for posting in other peoples thread.
Come on! I always thought all threads are "own" by all of us ... as long as we have something reasonable to say (or at least we honestly think it is reasonable).
 What do you mean with "natural" flow? Just to try and analyze its cause, and consider the rest of what you have "left" me/us with ...
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 15/05/2018 12:08:34
If there was an answer to the question posted, how many scores is that settling in the bigger picture?

We successfully answer the topic question, then what? Was that an achievement?

So, in simple?

You're asking more questions than I thought were necessary.

C'mon, simplify.

Summarise maybe with a poem....a ballad, a metaphor for Christ's sake.

A solid ball mass with a liquid exterior.

The solid ball rotates faster than the rotation around that ball of a "moon".

A "moon" captures the liquid gravitational pull.

The question is why that pull happens on the other side of the planet?

Am I right?

As dumb as it sounds, having a sea on a planet that rotates is happy with a Moon.

Why would a rock planet, rotating faster than the Moon does around it as compared to the sun, create a gravitational pull not just towards the Moon closest to it but away from it on the other side of the planet, right?

"That" works.....define maybe why it shouldn't if there's a question, right?

The biggest problem for contemporary science is working out how "that" works..........right?

If one is to understand a great deal of things, a certain great deal of things need to be included. One can't deny facts, yet adhere to what appears to be the case.

Am I pulling logs to prove tides?

MOD NOTE: If you wish to add to a previous post please do so by modifying that post rather than producing a chain of posts.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 15/05/2018 14:35:43
It SURPRISES me this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that …
3 in fact as there are 2 different circulatory phenomena.

And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”.
You’ve hit the nub of the problem the OP fails to understand, the ‘whirlpools’ are not the same as the tides.

Spin + moon driven tide gives one ‘whirlpool’ - although this is not a circulating current; wind driven + spin gives another and I think the OP is confusing these 2. But as you say, these are not the cause of the periodic tides.

Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
Anyone familiar with the coast or who has sailed on the sea will agree with you. And therein lies the OP’s problem I think.

How “on Earth” the OP can say:
"The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth”? … (!!!)

Has he never had any experience similar to mine?
The first is lack of knowledge of all the research that has been done and the sophistication of modern instruments and satellites.
The second is a lack of experience of spending time by, on or in the sea. There is also in the OP’s posts a lack of knowledge of basic hydrography and a sad misunderstanding of how gyroscopes work.

PS You say “a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”. Can you describe what it covers as I might have a copy in my lecture notes.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 15/05/2018 15:16:57
Despite how we summarise, questions have answers....ideally.

Are we still asking why the Earth gives itself two tides?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 15/05/2018 17:55:10
Are we still asking why the Earth gives itself two tides?
No, that’s never been the question here.

Just a point of etiquette. If you are posting in someone else’s topic and you want to add another comment before someone else has posted, it is polite to modify your last post rather than create a new post. If you disrupt the flow of a thread moderators will remove posts.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 15/05/2018 19:00:49
You say “a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”. Can you describe what it covers as I might have a copy in my lecture notes.
Thank you. It was when I posted #13 that I could not find it, but I did localize it:
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/publications/Tidal_Analysis_and_Predictions.pdf
Most of the work deals about the huge variety of local costal tides, but it also has an interesting part analyzing root Moon and Sun related causes of tides.
I´ve already said on the other thread that, though they explain the issue in a similar way as me, they even go beyond what I say, because they use the term centrifugal force even for the whole Earth revolving ... But on Earth C.G., when considering it as a whole, only centripetal force is exerted (total Moon´s pull), and it is producing the revolving of whole Earth, a kind of free fall ... Any centrifugal force considered acting there would be fictitious, as far as I can understand.
It´s on other points of our planet, where Moon´s pull doesn´t match with centripetal force required for actual revolving, where internal stresses appear, both "moon-ward" and outward, and those last ones are real centrifugal forces.   



Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/05/2018 09:01:41
According to the lunar theory of the tides from east to west at a speed of 1000 mph, a tidal wave does not move but a tidal current moves.
The Canal Theory of Tides and D. Erie
http://ru-ecology.info/term/67339/
https://myzooplanet.ru/okeanologiya-okeanografiya_918/106-kanalovaya-teoriya-18624.html
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=NqDEaFjIXPw
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 16/05/2018 09:49:32
According to the lunar theory of the tides  ...
There is very little point quoting lunar theory of tides if you are unable to answer questions about your own theory eg:

What is the height of the tidal hill at the equator?
You really are missing the point here. The question is not the height of any bulge, but the periodicity of the variation in heights. This periodicity is, as explained previously, the combined effect of Moon and Sun.
Please show your calculations to explain spring and neap tides and their exact periodicity.
Are you able to show in detail how your whirlpool theory accounts for spring and neap tides and their periodicity?
I don’t think you can. Until you do there is very little point in posting more as you are just wasting our time.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 16/05/2018 11:28:11
as the planet spins faster than the Moon rotates around it, and both these bodies are "in harmony", maybe the problem of explaining this is how gravity works according to contemporary theory?
I insist: mixing two different phenomena makes errors more likely ...
The Moon and our planet are certainly "in harmony" as you say, but logically with two cyclical movements of identical period of app. 28 days, rotating (the Moon) and revolving (the Earth) around their common center of mass (barycenter).
The daily spinning of our planet has nothing to do with that harmony ... Even we could say that it causes some changes kind of against that harmony, being the root cause of that the friction between water and solid Earth, and internally between different "drops" of water ... But that affects Moon-Earth dynamics significantly only in a very, very long term.   

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 16/05/2018 11:46:21
I think we're not thinking out-there enough.
How do liquids separate from solids, and by what tension of viscosity do liquids act like solids, and under what temperature variations, for instance.....
The influence of those factors in the generation of global tides is negligible.
By the way, when do you think liquid water could act as solid, due to high tension of viscosity?.
I hope you are not thinking huge amounts of water could act as water drops due to viscosity ...
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 16/05/2018 13:44:33
Are we still asking why the Earth gives itself two tides?
No, that’s never been the question here.

Just a point of etiquette. If you are posting in someone else’s topic and you want to add another comment before someone else has posted, it is polite to modify your last post rather than create a new post. If you disrupt the flow of a thread moderators will remove posts.

Why be a ***** Moderator?

You single me out?

I'm worried that's all you do, chase people with ideas you can't grasp other than with your "blockings".

I don't want to say "grow a brain"....but at least allow the possibility.....right?



Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/05/2018 13:52:48
Are you able to show in detail how your whirlpool theory accounts for spring and neap tides and their periodicity?
I don’t think you can. Until you do there is very little point in posting more as you are just wasting our time.
It is believed that the maximum tides occur in the new moon for the reason that the Moon and the Sun affect gravity to Earth in one direction. And in reality the Moon revolving around the Earth, it accelerates that slows down the orbital velocity of the Earth, due to which in the new moon, the orbital velocity of the Earth is maximal, and in the full moon, the minimum.
The moon's gravity does not affect the ebb and flow.
The Moon's role is indirect, creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
The maximum orbital velocity of the earth happens three days after the new moon.
The minimum orbital velocity of the earth is three days after the full moon.

Once a year, the Earth as close as possible to the Sun (perihelion), while maximizing the Earth's orbital velocity and, as a consequence, the height of the tides increases.

The tidal wave length depends on the whirlpool diameter. And the tidal wave height depends on the whirlpool rotation speed, the Earth orbital velocity, and the whirlpool tilting time (12 hours).
А = V1•V2/t 
where: A - tidal wave amplitude (precession angle). 
V1 - whirlpool rotation speed. 
V2 - the Earth orbital velocity. 
t - whirlpool tilting time (12 hours).

Table of the dependence of the amplitude of the tides on the speed of the current, on any coast.
1 km / h - 1 meter
5 km / h - 5 meter
10 km / h - 10 meter
15 km / h - 15 meter
The amplitude of the tides also depends on the size of the whirlpool, the amount of water under the whirlpool, the distance from the coast to the whirlpool and the direction of flow (north, south, west, east).
The current, which moves along the coast, reflects a tidal wave both towards the coast and towards the open sea.

The whirlpool theory of tides can easily be verified by relating the height of the tidal wave to the speed of rotation of the whirlpools.
From the height of the tides, you can determine the speed of the current along the coast, based on the atlas of sea currents in real time:
http://portal.esimo.ru/portal https://www.ndbc.noaa.gov
https://ru.nencom.com/spravochnik/energoresursy/globalnaya-onlayn-karta-vetrov
http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/sat_ocean.html
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 16/05/2018 14:00:29
"Over time".....a moon and a planet.......things become usual.

Who's asking how that works?

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 16/05/2018 16:11:22
in reality the Moon revolving around the Earth, it accelerates that slows down the orbital velocity of the Earth, due to which in the new moon, the orbital velocity of the Earth is maximal, and in the full moon, the minimum.
...
The Moon's role is indirect, creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
The maximum orbital velocity of the earth happens three days after the new moon.
The minimum orbital velocity of the earth is three days after the full moon.

Once a year, the Earth as close as possible to the Sun (perihelion), while maximizing the Earth's orbital velocity and, as a consequence, the height of the tides increases.
Is that really your best answer? If so it is seriously flawed.
Earth's orbital eccentricity is 0. 0167 and speed at perihelion is 30.3 Km/s and at aphelion 29.3, that is insufficient to account for tides.
Also the periodicities you quote do not match the observed values for spring and neap tides, however, the positions of sun and moon relative to a location on earth do match.

If that’s the best you can do I will leave you to it, you have no viable theory or data to back it up.

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Kryptid on 16/05/2018 16:43:16
Marking your own answer as the best answer. Wow.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/05/2018 19:14:39
Marking your own answer as the best answer. Wow.
Marking a  plainly wrong answer as "the best answer"- even more wow!
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/05/2018 19:27:01
Once a year, the Earth as close as possible to the Sun (perihelion), while maximizing the Earth's orbital velocity and, as a consequence, the height of the tides increases.
OK, it's an interesting idea, but in reality, perihelion was on the 3rd of  January, and the highest tides (and lowest) correspond with the equinoxes.
So you are simply wrong.
Your idea is so badly wrong that Galileo would have laughed at you.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 17/05/2018 08:27:39
The most sensitive gravimeter, this is a conventional pendulum clock.
In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 17/05/2018 08:42:12
The moon's gravity does not affect the ebb and flow.
The Moon's role is indirect, creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
The maximum orbital velocity of the earth happens three days after the new moon.
The minimum orbital velocity of the earth is three days after the full moon.
Once a year, the Earth as close as possible to the Sun (perihelion), while maximizing the Earth's orbital velocity and, as a consequence, the height of the tides increases.
You seem to try and adapt facts to your ideas ... And as they are utterly wrong ("The moon's gravity does not affect the ebb and flow"), you have to say things which can´t match, and contradict yourself.
How could the Moon increase and decrease orbital velocity of the Earth days after new and full Moon, but not ocean water movement, being water so "fluid" and free to move when gravitational combined field (Moon´s, Sun´s and own Earth´s pulls) change???
How a decrease in Moon-Earth distance (perihelion) could increase orbital velocity of the Earth, and due only to that last o.v. increase tides are higher ... but we shouldn´t think tides are higher because Moon´s pull is higher when Moon-Éarth distance is smaller ???
Physics problems can be tackled, but not together with Logics problems ...
By the way, it is true that orbital velocity of the Earth varies, though slightly, with the phases of the Moon ... But, do you know the root cause of that? ... And if not, how can you argue as you do?   
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 17/05/2018 09:12:38
The most sensitive gravimeter, this is a conventional pendulum clock.
In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow.
There are 2 things wrong with this.
First you said the moon’s gravity doesn’t reach earth, so how can it affect a pendulum?
Second a pendulum clock is not the most sensitive gravimeter, that honour is reserved for atom interferometric and atomic fountain based instruments.

Marking your own answer as the best answer. Wow.
Marking a  plainly wrong answer as "the best answer"- even more wow!
Mainly desperation I suspect. I’m leaving it as is because it should be obvious to anyone who reads it that it is seriously wrong.
There only seems to be one person in this thread who is supporting the OP and he has already demonstrated poor understanding of physics in other topics.

Most of the work deals about the huge variety of local costal tides, but it also has an interesting part analyzing root Moon and Sun related causes of tides.
I´ve already said on the other thread that, though they explain the issue in a similar way as me, they even go beyond what I say, because they use the term centrifugal force even for the whole Earth revolving ... ....
Excellent document, I keep a copy with my lecture notes as reference.
I think the problem is that the document is intended as a working manual rather than a physics text. You tend to be at the mercy of the author, who is often an editor drawing material in from different sources. Also organisations like NOAA do not have an overall editorial stance although they do have a very sound review process using both internal and external reviewers. Even so, I know from personal experience that getting a consistent framework in a document of this size very time consuming - there always seems to be something you missed.
I try to read around the differences in viewpoint and terminology as long as I can understand the mechanisms,  but I agree with you a consistency in the descriptions would be of great benefit to all.

PS I agree fully with your comments in #99
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 17/05/2018 10:04:27
It is possible to put a question and so:
In the phase of the new moon or full moon, the pendulum clock will go faster.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 17/05/2018 10:55:37
It is possible to put a question and so:
In the phase of the new moon or full moon, the pendulum clock will go faster.
So?
You have already shown that your theory doesn’’t work, no need to post more proof that it is false.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 17/05/2018 11:43:37
In the phase of the new moon or full moon, the pendulum clock will go faster.
I do agree with what said by Colin2B on #102. It´s a not working theory ...
And, apart from that, what quoted is erroneous. No honest experiment could show it is correct.
If seen otherwise somewhere, we all should be able to read the analysis of the experiment, and challenge it ...

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/05/2018 19:36:08
The most sensitive gravimeter, this is a conventional pendulum clock.
No
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1008.2884.pdf



In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow.
We have known about the effect of tide on clocks for decades.
It agrees with real world physics rather than your fairy tale.
http://trin-hosts.trin.cam.ac.uk/clock/theory/rcl_report.pdf
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/05/2018 19:42:29
The waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, while the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.
Define "clockwise".
The real currents look something like this


* Currents.png (39.87 kB . 343x376 - viewed 1417 times)
As you know, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, has the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.
It may not be vertical.


Temperature (and other effects) have a great influence in oxygen/ H2S levels.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/05/2018 02:02:44
The waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, while the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.
Define "clockwise".
The real currents look something like this


* Currents.png (39.87 kB . 343x376 - viewed 1417 times)
As you know, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, has the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.
It may not be vertical.


Temperature (and other effects) have a great influence in oxygen/ H2S levels.
Steep turns of rivers and currents also have a radius, and as a consequence, possess the properties of a gyroscope.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 18/05/2018 10:04:22
As you know, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, has the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.

If you look at the Earth from the side of the Sun, the whirlpools, rotating together with the Earth, overturn, due to which the whirlpools precess, and as a result there is a vertical movement of oceanic waters.
I’m afraid you have neglected to do your calculations and clearly do not understand gyroscopic precession.
Any force on the 2 coasts would be constant and would not result in a regular oscillation, and certainly not one that matched the observed relationship with moon and sun. Also, as @bored points out the actual currents don’t go anywhere near many of the coastal areas where tides occur.
I’m afraid your ‘best answer’ has already sunk your theory and adding to that error does nothing to help.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 18/05/2018 11:16:15
Quote from: Fermer05 on Yesterday at 08:27:39
In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow.
We have known about the effect of tide on clocks for decades.
Again, you are saying not fully coherent things:
"We have known about the effect of tide on clocks for decades": correct ...
But that doesn´t necessarily mean that "In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow", as I said on #103.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/05/2018 18:47:56
Quote from: Fermer05 on Yesterday at 08:27:39
In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow.
We have known about the effect of tide on clocks for decades.
Again, you are saying not fully coherent things:
"We have known about the effect of tide on clocks for decades": correct ...
But that doesn´t necessarily mean that "In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow", as I said on #103.
Part of the problem is that "In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow" doesn't actually tell you anything.
Do you mean it will be fast or do you mean it will be slow?
Not that it matters.
We know the effects of tides on clocks.
We know that answer to your question.
There's nothing new there.
It's all conventional science so it fails to back up the implausible claim made earlier.
the conventional explanation of tides, ..., does not correspond to reality.
In what way?

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/05/2018 20:11:50
Are you able to show in detail how your whirlpool theory accounts for spring and neap tides and their periodicity?
I don’t think you can. Until you do there is very little point in posting more as you are just wasting our time.
It is believed that the maximum tides occur in the new moon for the reason that the Moon and the Sun affect gravity to Earth in one direction. And in reality the Moon revolving around the Earth, it accelerates that slows down the orbital velocity of the Earth, due to which in the new moon, the orbital velocity of the Earth is maximal, and in the full moon, the minimum.
The moon's gravity does not affect the ebb and flow.
The Moon's role is indirect, creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
The maximum orbital velocity of the earth happens three days after the new moon.
The minimum orbital velocity of the earth is three days after the full moon.

Once a year, the Earth as close as possible to the Sun (perihelion), while maximizing the Earth's orbital velocity and, as a consequence, the height of the tides increases.
The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool. And the height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the whirlpool of the orbital velocity of the Earth, and the time of the tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).

The amphidromic point is the center of the maelstrom
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphidromic_point
this is the point in the ocean where the amplitude of the tidal wave is zero, the tidal wave "runs around" this point around the clockwise or counter-clockwise direction.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/05/2018 13:32:25
The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool.
As far as I recall, you have no supplied any evidence of the existence of this whirlpool.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 19/05/2018 18:07:50
Part of the problem is that "In the phase of new moon and perihelion, the clock will go fast or slow" doesn't actually tell you anything.
Do you mean it will be fast or do you mean it will be slow?
Well, I supposed he meant respectively: faster when new Moon, and slower when perihelion ...
That is not exactly so, and as I had previously said on #103, is something different than "We have known about the effect of tide on clocks for decades", which is certainly correct ...
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 20/05/2018 04:57:35
The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool.
As far as I recall, you have no supplied any evidence of the existence of this whirlpool.
The amphidromic point is the center of the maelstrom
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphidromic_point
this is the point in the ocean where the amplitude of the tidal wave is zero, the tidal wave "runs around" this point around the clockwise or counter-clockwise direction. 
https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/279856564317644726/
https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/310537336784446596/
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6
The scheme of motion of a tidal wave, along the perimeter of North Atlantic planetary maelstrom.
https:/.../youtu.be/ZEhm_ONTQKc
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 20/05/2018 08:31:10
The amphidromic point is the center of the maelstrom
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphidromic_point
this is the point in the ocean where the amplitude of the tidal wave is zero, the tidal wave "runs around" this point around the clockwise or counter-clockwise direction.
The scheme of motion of a tidal wave, along the perimeter of North Atlantic planetary maelstrom.
You are confusing tidal currents with tidal waves. This is a tidal wave, which is a rotating standing wave not a current, the currents do not flow in the same direction as the wave. As there is no rotating current, whirlpool, maelstrom, there is no gyro effect.
There are currents in an amphidromic system but they flow across the amphidromic point and perpendicular to the rotating wave, these currents are turned to the right ie clockwise (N hemisphere) by Coriolis effect which is why the standing wave rotates counter-clockwise.
Even if there were rotating currents your gyro equation is incorrect and does not result in an oscillating tide.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 20/05/2018 13:59:57
Scheme of circular motion of a tidal wave along the perimeter of the North Sea
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/North_Sea_Currents.svg
https:/.../youtu.be/JNOpJxfI_Mg
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/05/2018 14:04:14
Very pretty.
You have shown that water, pushed past the uneven shoreline of the UK will swirl round.

So what?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 20/05/2018 14:05:40
Scheme of circular motion of a tidal wave along the perimeter of the North Sea
Yes, exactly what I was pointing out, wave not a current/whirlpool, hence no gyroscopic effect.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 20/05/2018 17:25:15
Mathematically, it is very difficult to express the theory
Then perhaps we should stick with ordinary Newtonian physics which is expressible as maths and which has explained tides for a few centuries.
To calculate the height of the tides, you need to know the rotation speed of the whirlpools and the depth of the sea.
To calculate the height of the tides of the Bay of Fundy, you need to know the speed of flow in the north of the Gulf of Maine, but this data is not.
In the Bay of Fundy, for the formation of tides 18 meters high, the flow in the north of the Gulf of Maine should be about 15 km / h.
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-content/images/circulation/fig4.jpg
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/05/2018 18:22:57
At a height of the tides of 18 meters, the flow speed should be about 15 km / h.
Why?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/05/2018 07:53:06
To calculate the height of the tides in the Bay of Fundy, you need to know the speed of the whirlpool and the depth of the Gulf of Maine.
If anyone has this information, please write them.
https://goo.gl/images/cWTVG4
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-content/images/circulation/fig4.jpg
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Fundy-Offshore-1-Nova-Scotia/tides/latest
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 21/05/2018 17:18:02
To calculate the height of the tides of the Bay of Fundy, you need to know the speed of flow in the north of the Gulf of Maine, .........To create tides 18 meters high, the speed of the current should be about 15 km / h.
But it isn’t.  Current in N of Gulf of Maine is around 2km/h. Another coffin nail in your theory.
I too would like to see your calculation, because the tide ht depends on more than the current and sea depth.

Again however, you are confusing 2 different things, these currents are not the same as the tidal wave circulating around the amphidromic points. The example you showed of North Sea is a different phenomena to the currents in the Gulf of Maine, try not to confuse the two.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/05/2018 20:59:51
To calculate the height of the tides of the Bay of Fundy, you need to know the speed of flow in the north of the Gulf of Maine, .........To create tides 18 meters high, the speed of the current should be about 15 km / h.
Current in N of Gulf of Maine is around 2km/h.
Correctly!
The height of the tides is now about 2 meters.
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Fundy-Offshore-1-Nova-Scotia/tides/latest
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/05/2018 22:04:52
You need to show where the conventional view gets the wrong answer.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 22/05/2018 07:38:19
The lunar theory of tides can not predict anomalously high tides in the Fundy Bay, which depend on the current velocity in the north of the Gulf of Maine.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 22/05/2018 09:22:21
Correctly!
The height of the tides is now about 2 meters.
That doesn’t make sense. You said “To calculate the height of the tides of the Bay of Fundy, you need to know the speed of flow in the north of the Gulf of Maine, .........To create tides 18 meters high, the speed of the current should be about 15 km / h.”

I tell you the current is 2km/h. 2 ≠15.
Show your calculations so we can understand what you are saying, otherwise it sounds as though you are just making it all up. If you show your calculations I will tell you the depth underneath the 2km/h current.

The lunar theory of tides can not predict anomalously high tides in the Fundy Bay, which depend on the current velocity in the north of the Gulf of Maine.
I’m sorry to disappoint you, but it does.
The largest tidal range offshore of Fundy is about 1.5m with a period, predicted by the lunar theory, of 12 hours and 26 minutes.

Liquid in any basin has a characteristic period of oscillation and, once set in motion, the liquid will rhythmically slosh back and forth in this time period.  The speed at which it oscillates depends on the length and depth of the basin. Due to the enormous size, the unique funnel shape, and the immense depth of the  Bay of Fundy, its natural period of oscillation is somewhere between 12 and 13 hours. That oscillation is in perfect sync with the Atlantic ocean tide flooding into the bay every 12 hours and 26 minutes, which results in resonance and the extreme tides within the bay, it has nothing to do with the speed of the current in the Gulf of Maine.

The bay’s shape and bottom topography also have a secondary influence on the tides. The bay is shaped like a large natural funnel; it becomes narrower and shallower towards the upper part of the bay, forcing the water higher up onto the shores.

Again, it has nothing to do with the speed of the current in the Gulf of Maine.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 22/05/2018 12:51:01
Tides and ebbs are formed not along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only in those coasts where the high angular velocity of the currents (1-5 km / h).
On the rectilinear coasts, where currents do not have angular velocity, tides and ebbs do not form.
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk (10 km / h), the height of the tides in the Penzhina Bay increases to 12 meters.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/41.png
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Gulf of Maine (15 km / h), the height of the tides in the Bay of Fundy rises to 18 meters.
https://goo.gl/images/cWTVG4
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-content/images/circulation/fig4.jpg
"Record high tide in the Bay of Fundy - 21.6 meters - occurred only once in the history of observations, on the night of October 4 to October 5 in 1869 under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale."
On the night of October 4 to 5, in 1869, under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale, "a record rainfall fell over the river basins flowing into the Bay of Fundy (300 mm in one day), so that the waters of the Bay of Fundy poured into the Gulf of Maine and increased the speed of rotation a whirlpool in the Gulf of Maine.
http://www.gulfofmaine.org/ebm/toolkitsurvey/images/exec-sum-2.jpg
Cyclone Saxby Gale rotating counter-clockwise, also contributed to the unraveling of the whirlpool.
In an abnormally cold winter and during a drought, when rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy merge, the height of the tides does not exceed 1 meter.
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Fundy-Offshore-1-Nova-Scotia/tides/latest
The average flow velocity in the north of the Maine Bay is about 2 km / h, due to which the height of the tides in the Bay of Fundy is about 2 meters.
To create tides 18 meters high, the current speed should increase to 18 km / h.
The flow velocity range in the north of the Maine Bay is from 2 to 18 km / h
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 22/05/2018 13:14:53
The Earth is a ballerina with the Moon, spinning faster right, two arms...…?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 22/05/2018 20:25:42
The lunar theory of tides can not predict anomalously high tides in the Fundy Bay, which depend on the current velocity in the north of the Gulf of Maine.

"Why are the Bay of Fundy Tides the Highest?
The average tidal range of all oceans around the globe is 1 meter (3ft), so how can the tidal difference in the Bay of Fundy reach up to 16 meters? This tidal phenomenon exists because the bay has a few distinct features: a substantial amount of water and a unique shape and size that causes resonance."
from
https://www.bayoffundy.com/about/highest-tides/#why-highest

You need to show where the conventional view gets the wrong answer.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 22/05/2018 22:07:49
Why high tides from resonance are not formed in the south of the Gulf of Maine.
Who is the author of the theory of resonances.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 22/05/2018 22:16:39
This tidal phenomenon exists because the bay has a few distinct features: a substantial amount of water and a unique shape and size that causes resonance."
from
https://www.bayoffundy.com/about/highest-tides/#why-highest
You need to show where the conventional view gets the wrong answer.
Good luck.
Why high tides from resonance do not form in the south of the Gulf of Maine.
Who is the author of the theory of resonances.
[/quote]
Do you know what resonance is?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 23/05/2018 03:55:14
Why high tides from resonance are not formed in the south of the Gulf of Maine.
Resonance of water in the Gulf of Maine, must be accompanied by a swing of water to the south and north, who saw it?
Who is the author of the theory of resonances (Such names as Laplace, Darwin, Erie and others, declined to comment on the tides in the bays).
In the lunar theory of tides about resonance nothing is written.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tide

I know!
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Резонанс
The lunar theory of tides is based on:
1. On the blind faith of people, on the printed word.
2. People do not want to think for themselves.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: The Spoon on 23/05/2018 10:55:21
The lunar theory of tides is based on:
1. On the blind faith of people, on the printed word.
2. People do not want to think for themselves.
You have obviously never sailed have you? I have and the lunar theory of tides allows:
a) prediction of tide height many years in advance so we predict accurately what clearance there is under the boat so can work out at what time on a specific day we can enter a port with depth restrictions such as a sandbar.
b) Tidal flow direction at a specific point
c) Velocity of tidal flow at a specific point.
Items b and c mean that we can plot a course over ground taking into account tidal effects using information from almanacs (i.e. books) that you are so dismissive of. Your disdain for books (aka the printed word) reminds me of the attitude of TheBox, flat earthers  and other anti-science cranks. You ideas are similarly nonsensical and pointless.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 23/05/2018 11:26:15
Can someone summarise what tidal resonance theory is?

Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 23/05/2018 11:33:24
The Earth is a ballerina with the Moon, spinning faster right, two arms...…?
Utterly ERRONEOUS.
Our planet and its satellite are a "dancing" couple: both have circular movements around their common center of mass, absolutely necessary to maintain them without falling on each other, of some 28 days period ...
That has nothing to do with much faster daily spinning of Earth, as far as causes are concerned !!
 
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 23/05/2018 11:36:46
Can someone summarise what tidal resonance theory is?
See post #126 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg542648#msg542648
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 23/05/2018 11:38:02
Not really. Poetry is poetry, don't take it to heart.

The Earth spins and has a fluid environment, 2/3rds of the planets surface if not more, water.

I think the idea is one of how the relationship of a planet spinning with a 2/3rds liquid surface being gravitationally attracted to a satellite/Moon is the issue, right?

The ocean is still a Ballerina.


< just saw your post Colin, I'm looking at it now >
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 23/05/2018 11:41:26
Can someone summarise what tidal resonance theory is?
See post #126 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg542648#msg542648


Oscillations work well in flat planes, but on massive spinning objects such as the planet Earth, its a different game right?

If you're talking about a spinning object, spinning stably on a point, we're looking at a ballerina, right?


Putting this in the context of a 2/3rds liquid surface planet, what are those liquid arms doing with the gravitational pull of the Moon to stay stable?

A flywheel, a counterweight, that other tide facing away from the Moon, right?


Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 23/05/2018 12:44:43
Oscillations work well in flat planes, but on massive spinning objects such as the planet Earth, its a different game right?
You asked about resonance theory of tides. These are local effects for which one example is given in the post I quoted. The Bay of Fundy is a small area on the earth’s surface and to all reasonable approximations that area of the earth’s surface can be considered flat.
The post explains the resonance in the bay.

What @rmolnav is pointing out is that the spin of the earth is not part of the modern barycentric model of lunar tides.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 23/05/2018 13:05:15
And the modern barycentric model of lunar tides doesn't account for "two tides", tides on opposing positions of the planet?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 23/05/2018 14:28:58
And the modern barycentric model of lunar tides doesn't account for "two tides", tides on opposing positions of the planet?
It wouldn’t be a valid theory of tides if it didn’t, you might want to look at this https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49715.0
But bear in mind that you only get 2 tides on opposite sides in the idealised situation of a planet with no land masses. Once you get land masses you get local effects like resonance, funneling, double tides etc.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 23/05/2018 14:48:59
Do you think your "resonance" idea is going to catch?

It's a great way to stimulate debate, don't get me wrong there.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 23/05/2018 15:09:45
Can someone summarise what tidal resonance theory is?
The Mystery of High Tides

No mysticism - everything is natural. The secret of the tidal wave lies in the gigantic volume of water and the characteristic form in the form of a pipe, looking upwards inclined. Also, the period of water fluctuation in the Fundy coincides with the period of water fluctuation in the ocean. In miniature this can be imagined as follows. If you move your hands back and forth in the bathroom with water, you can create a mini-tsunami effortlessly and in seconds. The tidal wave is formed by a similar principle. We add that the period of water fluctuations in the bay (12-13 hours) coincides with the period of water oscillation in the ocean (12 hours 26 minutes). Therefore, the tidal wave is repeatedly amplified by fluctuations in oceanic waters. If we return to the example with the bathroom, imagine that the second person added efforts to create a mini-tsunami. And what will the effect be? The wave will rise higher, because the force of influence has increased.

So the science says, and the indigenous people, the Indians of the Mikmak tribe, have a different opinion on this matter. They believed that the tidal wave is caused by a giant whale that lives at the bottom of the bay and beats its tail. This legend has a well-grounded basis: whales often swim to a deep gulf (its depth is up to 214 m).
https://biosfera.wiki/unp/zaliv-fandi-39.html
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 23/05/2018 16:17:07
In miniature this can be imagined as follows. If you move your hands back and forth in the bathroom with water, you can create a mini-tsunami effortlessly and in seconds. The tidal wave is formed by a similar principle.
Consider the mechanism of formation of tides in the Bay of Fundy, created by the "Moon theory of tides":
"Lunar tidal current" moving from east to west along the vast expanses of the Atlantic Ocean cuts into the east coast of the Gulf of Maine forming high tides, two meters high.
And reflecting the unknown about what and with the help of the Coriolis force turns north, towards the Bay of Fundy, create tides 16 meters high ..

But there are questions:
1. Why the "Lunar tidal current" crashing into the east shore of the Gulf of Maine does not create anomalously high tides in the south of the gulf, at least five meters high, the south of the bay is three times closer than the Bay of Fundy.
2. The frontal collision of the "Lunar tidal current" falls on the eastern shore of the Gulf of Maine, why there are not formed thirty-meter tides, although the wedge-shaped bays and bays in the east of the Gulf of Men are quite numerous?
3. How the Coriolis force works in the Gulf of Maine.
4. And the fourth question? According to some laws, there is a reflection of the Lunar tidal current from the Gulf of Maine to the Bay of Fundy, and whether the law of reflection is in force here.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 23/05/2018 16:28:56
Ok, so there are theories about tidal flows that perhaps have a lot to do with local estuaries, local sand banks, that sort of thing, right?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 23/05/2018 18:53:00
If you're talking about a spinning object, spinning stably on a point, we're looking at a ballerina, right?
Putting this in the context of a 2/3rds liquid surface planet, what are those liquid arms doing with the gravitational pull of the Moon to stay stable?
A flywheel, a counterweight, that other tide facing away from the Moon, right?
Again: you are mixing things ...
Daily spinning of Earth, a kind of alone ballerina (but without the possibility of "deciding" to raise arms), due to its high angular speed, keeps causing the so called "equatorial bulge", more than 40 km high (affecting both solid Earth and water) ... due to huge, inherent centrifugal forces. But nothing to do with the Moon.
The high tide facing away from the Moon (occurring on top of that deformed sphere), somehow acts as a counterweight as you say,  and is logically much, much smaller, because it is due to the fact that at farther hemisphere centrifugal force´s effects outdone Moon´s pull´s ... Normal tidal bulges are therefore much, much smaller,  mainly because now angular speed is some 28 times smaller ... 
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 23/05/2018 19:32:03
we're looking at a ballerina, right?
No.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Thebox on 24/05/2018 13:30:51
 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Just a comment in picture form.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 24/05/2018 19:04:30
moo.jpg (13.29 kB . 664x503 - viewed 31 times)
Just a comment in picture form.
Sorry, but that is erroneous, or at least misleading.
Moon and Sun cause let us call them "primary" bulges (the ones in their direction), being the first bigger than the later, as seen in the picture ...
But ONLY Moon related bulge is visible, causing a high tide that, as Earth spins around its own axis, are perceptible a couple of hours behind sublunar Moon´s meridian.
Sun related bulge acts similarly, but in relation with the Sun ... Therefore, it always "happens" app. at 2:00 P.M.
But both effects add up, and we can see only Moon related one, but enhanced or reduced according to the relative position Sun/Moon ...
Apart from those two "primary" high tides , we have the antipode high tides (not to discuss their cause here), the Sun related one always at 2:00 A.M.
That´s why bigger high tides always occur app. at 2:00 A.M. and at 2:00 P.M., because a "primary" bulge and the antipode one related to the other celestial body occur on same meridian and high tides add up.
And the two visible bulges are always in line with the Moon !! 
 
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 24/05/2018 19:10:43
Sorry... Something to add to:
That´s why bigger high tides always occur app. at 2:00 A.M. and at 2:00 P.M., because a "primary" bulge and the antipode one related to the other celestial body occur on same meridian and high tides add up.
That is when full Moon. When new Moon "primary" bulges related to Sun and Moon add up, as well as respective antipodal bulges ...
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/05/2018 19:14:45

* moo.jpg (13.29 kB . 664x503 - viewed 1582 times)

Just a comment in picture form.
Interesting.
A post that is
written by someone who repeatedly posts nonsense and
is completely wrong,
earns a thank you from the guy who marked his own completely wrong response to his wrong-headed thread as the "best".

It's time this site started to ban people who post anti-science.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Thebox on 24/05/2018 21:55:05



Interesting.
A post that is
written by someone who repeatedly posts nonsense and
is completely wrong,
earns a thank you from the guy who marked his own completely wrong response to his wrong-headed thread as the "best".

It's time this site started to ban people who post anti-science.
Interesting that the moon and the sun are not aligned in orbit ,  the sun has a gravitational affect on the oceans so will cause a slight deform on the ocean , the moon as we know has a much larger affect on deforming the oceans and creating a tidal bulge. 
What is interesting is eventually the moon will have moved so far away , it will let go of the bulge causing the oceans to ''flatten'' out.  maybe even sending tidal waves around the world.
But worse of all it will affect the eco- system of the oceans  ..

Please continue,sorry Mr C tried to ruin your thread.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 25/05/2018 05:06:06
Do you think your "resonance" idea is going to catch?
It already has. It is taught at major oceonagraphy institutes and the Bay of Fundy is used as a case study..

quote author=Fermer05 link=topic=73127.msg542743#msg542743 date=1527044114]
Why high tides from resonance are not formed in the south of the Gulf of Maine.
1. Why the "Lunar tidal current" crashing into the east shore of the Gulf of Maine does not create anomalously high tides in the south of the gulf, at least five meters high, the south of the bay is three times closer than the Bay of Fundy.
2. The frontal collision of the "Lunar tidal current" falls on the eastern shore of the Gulf of Maine, why there are not formed thirty-meter tides, although the wedge-shaped bays and bays in the east of the Gulf of Men are quite numerous?

If you are asking these question you are clearly not understanding resonance.

The lunar theory of tides is based on:
1. On the blind faith of people, on the printed word.
2. People do not want to think for themselves.
If you are descending to this type of argument you are clearly lacking any real evidence.

You claim that a current of 15km/h is required in the Northern part of the Gulf of Maine, but buoy data from this area shows a maximum of 2.34km/h over the first 5 months of this year.

The lunar theory is highly predictive and has proven accuracy.  We are still awaiting your detailed calculations for your theory, which you are avoiding posting. If you continue to avoid providing detailed calculations there is little point continuing as you are just wasting our time.


Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: rmolnav on 25/05/2018 07:39:28
Interesting that the moon and the sun are not aligned in orbit (*) ,  the sun has a gravitational affect on the oceans so will cause a slight deform on the ocean , the moon as we know has a much larger affect on deforming the oceans and creating a tidal bulge (**). 
Sorry, but I´ll have to agree with rather "radical" post of "Bored chemist", because it´s clear you haven´t even read my posts #149 and 150, and you go on saying flawed things:
(*): How they could be "aligned in orbit" (permanently), if the "couple" is following an orbit revolving around the Sun, and they also are following their own orbits around their common center of mass (barycenter) ??
But, as said on mentioned posts, they are actually aligned with Earth when full and new Moon !!
(**) Moon creates actually TWO tidal bulges, as also said on mentioned posts, and what shwon on "a comment in picture form" is far from reality and utterly misleading !!
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 25/05/2018 13:46:31
You spin something long enough, line the planets, patterns evolve....patterns relative to references. Why don't we ask why the Earth needs to spin the way it does with all its water and tides with a Moon?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/05/2018 14:02:24
You claim that a current of 15km/h is required in the Northern part of the Gulf of Maine, but buoy data from this area shows a maximum of 2.34km/h over the first 5 months of this year.
At a maximum of 2.34 km / h, what is the height of the tides?
Find the height of the tides of 15 meters, the speed should be 15 km / h?
If this does not happen, I will apologize to everyone for losing my time and yours.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 25/05/2018 16:13:22
You claim that a current of 15km/h is required in the Northern part of the Gulf of Maine, but buoy data from this area shows a maximum of 2.34km/h over the first 5 months of this year.
At a maximum of 2.34 km / h, what is the height of the tides?
Find the height of the tides of 15 meters, the speed should be 15 km / h?
If this does not happen, I will apologize to everyone for losing my time and yours.
Yesterday the Fundy tide was 11m and the buoy in N Gulf of Maine registered 1.98km/h
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/05/2018 19:45:56

Yesterday the Fundy tide was 11m and the buoy in N Gulf of Maine registered 1.98km/h
Thanks for the numbers!
If the current moves at a speed of 2 km / h, and the height of the tides is 10 m.

Table: Tides and ebbs are formed not along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only in those coasts where the high angular velocity of the currents (1-5 km / h).
On the rectilinear coasts, where currents do not have angular velocity, tides and ebbs do not form.
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk (10 km / h), the height of the tides in the Penzhina Bay increases to 12 meters.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/41.png
With an increase in the angular velocity of the current in the north of the Gulf of Maine (15 km / h), the height of the tides in the Bay of Fundy rises to 18 meters.
https://goo.gl/images/cWTVG4
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-content/images/circulation/fig4.jpg
"Record high tide in the Bay of Fundy - 21.6 meters - occurred only once in the history of observations, on the night of October 4 to October 5 in 1869 under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale."
On the night of October 4 to 5, in 1869, under the influence of the cyclone Saxby Gale, "a record rainfall fell over the river basins flowing into the Bay of Fundy (300 mm in one day), so that the waters of the Bay of Fundy poured into the Gulf of Maine and increased the speed of rotation a whirlpool in the Gulf of Maine.
http://www.gulfofmaine.org/ebm/toolkitsurvey/images/exec-sum-2.jpg
Cyclone Saxby Gale rotating counter-clockwise, also contributed to the unraveling of the whirlpool.
In an abnormally cold winter and during a drought, when rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy merge, the height of the tides does not exceed 1 meter.
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Fundy-Offshore-1-Nova-Scotia/tides/latest
Table: The dependence of the amplitude of the tides of the Bay of Fundy, on the flow velocity in the north of the Gulf of Maine.
1 km / h - 5 m
5 km / h - 10 m
10 km / h - 15 m
15 km / h - 20 m

The average speed of the current in the English Channel is: 12-13 km / h near the city of Portland. Great Britain, 15-18.5 km / h at Cape Ag France.

The maximum height of the tides is 15 m (the city of Saint-Malo, France).
https:/.../m.youtube.com/watch?v=JdEkHGZMh8I
https:/.../m.youtube.com/watch?v=JNOpJxfI_Mg
http://geosfera.org/evropa/718-la-mansh-proliv-mezhdu-angliey-i-franciey.html
https: // m.youtube.com/watch?v=M44miAiHhrk

The amplitude of the tides depends on the size of the current, the speed of the current, the direction of the current, the amount of water under the current.
 
It will be difficult to determine the amplitude of the tides with the help of the formula.
It is easier to define it by experience.

The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool. And the height of the tidal wave depends on the speed of rotation of the whirlpool of the orbital velocity of the Earth, and the time of the tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: opportunity on 26/05/2018 00:19:47
Are we are missing the forest for the trees though? Does the Moon relate with the Earth's spin in terms of a tidal connection?

Who is going to say that the shape of the rivers and estuaries makes the moon magically manifest with the tides?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/05/2018 12:13:05
The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool.
What whirlpool?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Colin2B on 26/05/2018 13:16:39
Who is going to say that the shape of the rivers and estuaries makes the moon magically manifest with the tides?
No one with any basic understanding of tides.

It will be difficult to determine the amplitude of the tides with the help of the formula.
It is easier to define it by experience.

In other words you don’t have a workable theory, but are falling back on the ‘poke’ method.

Table of the amplitude of the tides of the Bay of Fundy:
1 km / h - 5 m
2 km / h - 10 m
3 km / h - 15 m
4 km / h - 20 m
I’ve logged on to the buoy to check the last year of data and these figures don’t match the tides. Sorry, but another nail in your ‘theory’.

A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
This doesn’t work either.

I don’t see any point in wasting more time on this.
I’m out.
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 26/05/2018 13:59:22
Vertical movement of ocean waters

The waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, while the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.

As you know, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, has the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.

If you look at the Earth from the side of the Sun, the whirlpools, rotating together with the Earth, overturn, due to which the whirlpools precess, and as a result there is a vertical movement of oceanic waters. http://goo.gl/AM5g1s

The presented theory can be easily verified by the connection between the oxygen content and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
Drawing on a map of the depths and currents of the seas and oceans.
The higher the flow velocity, the greater the oxygen content and the lower the hydrogen sulfide content.

List of seas with low oxygen content:
Black Sea. East of the Mediterranean Sea. Gulf of Mexico.
Fjords of Norway.

The opening was published in the Russian-German scientific peer-reviewed journal "Eastern European Scientific Journal" No. 3/2015. 64. June
http://www.auris-archiv.de/journal.html
A positive review was also received from the Institute of Geography of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
Forum SPbSU Faculty of Geography.
http://www.spbgu.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=53992
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Thebox on 26/05/2018 14:04:13
Vertical movement of ocean waters

The waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, while the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.

As you know, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, has the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.

If you look at the Earth from the side of the Sun, the whirlpools, rotating together with the Earth, overturn, due to which the whirlpools precess, and as a result there is a vertical movement of oceanic waters. http://goo.gl/AM5g1s

The presented theory can be easily verified by the connection between the oxygen content and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
Drawing on a map of the depths and currents of the seas and oceans.
The higher the flow velocity, the greater the oxygen content and the lower the hydrogen sulfide content.

List of seas with low oxygen content:
Black Sea. East of the Mediterranean Sea. Gulf of Mexico.
Fjords of Norway.

The opening was published in the Russian-German scientific peer-reviewed journal "Eastern European Scientific Journal" No. 3/2015. 64. June
http://www.auris-archiv.de/journal.html
A positive review was also received from the Institute of Geography of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
Forum SPbSU Faculty of Geography.
http://www.spbgu.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=53992

As Mods are stepping out of the thread, I thought I would share this with you as it may help you.

http://beritaviral.com/

Added- i thought it might help you ''view'' the Coriolis affect.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/05/2018 16:41:29
The waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, while the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.
I posted a picture of the ocean currents.
They don't include these whirlpools you keep going on about.
Why are you still pretending the whirlpools are real?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Thebox on 26/05/2018 16:45:22

Why are you still pretending the whirlpools are real?


When water breaks around an obstruction , it can create eddy currents maybe ? 
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/05/2018 10:12:00
The waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, while the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.
I posted a picture of the ocean currents.
They don't include these whirlpools you keep going on about.
Why are you still pretending the whirlpools are real?
As a rule, currents move along the perimeter of the seas and oceans, carrying huge masses of water, and reaching a speed of 30 km / h.
https://ru.pinterest.com/pin/310537336784446596/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=wlvkrRdYNZ0
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Течение
http:/.../vietnam-times.ru/news/different/klimatom-zemli-upravljajut-ogromnye-okeanicheskie-vodovoroty/
https:/.../earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-202.23,319.63,234/loc=114.946,-89.960
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/05/2018 13:47:34
I thought this one was quite pretty.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=wlvkrRdYNZ0
As you can see it shows currents swirling both clockwise and counterclockwise.
But you keep pretending that they would only exist in different hemispheres.

Why not just face up to the fact that you are wrong?
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/05/2018 15:34:59
Go to the link, there are all the answers about the whirlpools and currents.
It says: In the northern hemisphere, the dominant direction of rotation of the whirlpools, counter-clockwise, and in the southern hemisphere, clockwise.
http://www.spbgu.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=53992
https://mephi.ru/communication/forum/talk/forum13/topic5498/messages/
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/05/2018 16:15:21
You might expect something like that because of the Coriolis effect.
Nothing much to do with tides.
I'm stil waiting for you to show that there's anything wrong with the conventional explanation of tides.
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/05/2018 20:15:31
Follow the link, there are all the answers.
http://www.spbgu.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=53992
https://mephi.ru/communication/forum/talk/forum13/topic5498/messages/
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/05/2018 20:22:37
Follow the link, there are all the answers.
http://www.spbgu.ru/forums/index.php?showtopic=53992
https://mephi.ru/communication/forum/talk/forum13/topic5498/messages/
Can you translate them?
I'm not after the whole lot.
I just want you to answer my question.
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/05/2018 20:44:44
I answered many questions, read the forum again.
Ask questions specifically.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/05/2018 20:52:13
I answered many questions, read the forum again.
Ask questions specifically.
Again?
OK
You need to show where the conventional view gets the wrong answer.
Good luck.

Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/05/2018 21:13:27
It isn't a complicated question I'm asking.
what evidence do you have
1. In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal current or tidal wave moves and at what speed.
2. How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are part of the year significant, and then disappear.
3. Why abnormally high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.
4. Why are tidal waves moving strictly along the perimeter of lakes, seas and oceans, and not from east to west, following the Moon?
5. As the current of the western winds manages to move from west to east, at a speed of 5 km / h, wiping the ocean floor, while the tidal wave flows from east to west at a speed of 800 km / h, wiping the ocean floor.
6. Why is not tidal current used to move ships from east to west.
7. It is believed that the cause of the second lunar hump is the barycenter. And what is the cause of the solar second hump?
Who is the author of the theory of tidal resonance and why this theory is not available on the Internet?
8. As long as the tidal wave makes one revolution around the Earth, the Moon makes two turns, how is the gravitational connection between the Moon and the tidal hump?
9. In order that there was a "Moon tidal hump," the heterogeneity of the gravitational field is necessary, and for this, the Moon must constantly be above the hump, otherwise the hump will collapse.
10. The way to refute the whirlpool theory is to show coves and bays where there are fast rotating whirlpools, but there are no abnormally high tides.
11. Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Tides:
http://mypages.iit.edu/~johnsonpo/smart00/lesson4.htm#tidefaqs
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/05/2018 21:23:34
The existence of tidal humpbacks from textbooks would mean a constant movement
scary trillion tons of sea water on the world's oceans.
This phenomenon in nature as something not observed.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/05/2018 21:30:46
In the Atlantic Ocean from east to west, to the Gulf of Maine, a tidal current or tidal wave...
Which do  you mean?
A tidal wave, or a tidal current.
Depending on latitude the tidal bulge can move at a thousand miles an hour.
But I already explained why you don't see this.
Why is it still  on your list?


How to explain the fact that in southwest Australia in the port of Fremantle the tides are part of the year significant, and then disappear.
The existence of spring and neap tides was already explained.
Why is it still on  your list?

Why abnormally high tides are formed only on the northern and southern shores of the seas and oceans and not on the eastern.
That was shon to be incorrect.
Why is it still on the list

and so on.
Please remove the stuff that has already been dealt with and then answer my question, rather than repeating stuff you know is wrong.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 27/05/2018 21:32:07
The highest tides on Earth are formed in the Fandi Bay in North America - 18 m, at the mouth of the Severn River in England - 16 m, in the Bay of Mont-Saint-Michel in France - 15 m, in the mouths of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Penzhinskaya and Gizhiginskaya - 13 m , at the cape Nerpinsky in the Mezensky Bay - 11 m.
We already explained Fandi etc.
Why don't you realise this?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/05/2018 09:53:35
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
And it can be easily disproved too by the same  thing.
So when someone posts data that show you are wrong, like these:
I’ve logged on to the buoy to check the last year of data and these figures don’t match the tides. Sorry, but another nail in your ‘theory’.
it's time to accept that your idea is dead.

When your idea does not agree with reality, it is not because reality has made an error.
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/05/2018 11:56:51
Can someone summarise what tidal resonance theory is?
And who is the author of this theory?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/05/2018 12:11:38
Can someone summarise what tidal resonance theory is?
And who is the author of this theory?
You were already directed to a sumary
Can someone summarise what tidal resonance theory is?
See post #126 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg542648#msg542648

For the sake of discussion, we can pretend that my school-mate Criss wrote it.
Sadly he's no longer with us so he can't answer for it.
You will therefore have to focus on what it says (which s important) rather than who said it (which is not important).
Title: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/05/2018 13:41:39
Your links lead nowhere.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/05/2018 14:27:57



See post #126 https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg542648#msg542648
Yes it does.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 10:07:51
Incidentally, do you think the tides in landmasses are due to whirlpools?
It may have escaped your notice, but Scotland remains resolutely North of London.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 29/05/2018 11:06:14
Incidentally, do you think the tides in landmasses are due to whirlpools?
It may have escaped your notice, but Scotland remains resolutely North of London.
Good point ! ...
For the OP rather than for you, I´m going to repeat now something quite clear I said exactly 2 weeks ago, on #76 ... Either he didn´t read it, or he feels too sure that his theory is the right one, and thinks what I said is not worthy to consider ...
"It SURPRISES me this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would really happen without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools" ...
And subsequently, erroneous things are being said, since the proposition of the question.
Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
How “on Earth” the OP can say:
"The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth”? … (!!!)"
The rotation of the Moon would be IMPOSSIBLE if Earth gravity didn´t reach it ... Therefore, if Earth gravity pulls the Moon, acc. to 3rd Newton´s Motion Law (did he learn it in his childhood?) Moon gravity pulls the Earth, globally with same force !!
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/05/2018 12:34:24
There is no convincing evidence and facts, deformation of the Earth's continents under the influence of tidal forces.
Although deformation of the continents can be easily verified by aiming the telescope to the top of a mountain or to a geostationary satellite.

Tidal forces are now successfully used, as a plug from many secrets of nature.
In fact, they exist only theoretically, but practically, they have not been fixed by any gravimetric device.
Acceleration of free fall at the equator is less than at the poles: at the equator is 978 gal, and at the poles - 983 gal.
There is no data about the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.
Why in the new moon phase, the pendulum clock does not go slowly ..
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 12:57:16
There is no convincing evidence and facts, deformation of the Earth's continents under the influence of tidal forces.
Although deformation of the continents can be easily verified by aiming the telescope to the top of a mountain or to a geostationary satellite.
Come off it.
It's one of those or the other.
Either the tide moves rock, or it doesn't (Spoiler alert: it does).

There is no data about the fluctuation of tidal forces, if there were fluctuations, then there would be data.
There is data.
It's just that you are not clever enough to find it.|
Here's a reference.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258263518_On_the_gravimetric_contribution_to_watt_balance_experiments
And here's one  which uses the sort of senor you find in a mobile phone to measure the effect  of tides on local gravity.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature17397


Why in the new moon phase, the pendulum clock does not go slowly ..
As I already pointed out, clocks are affected by the tide, and the effect is documented.
It's just that you choose to lie about it.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/05/2018 13:38:04
If the tidal forces existed, then the pressure of water and air would certainly react, especially during the parade of the planets.
Does the gravity of the Moon create two atmospheric humpbacks, at what speed does the air tidal hump move from east to west? How cyclones and anticyclones manage to move from west to east, at a speed of 50 km / h, wiping the surface of the continents, while the Lunar air tidal wave, moves from east to west at a speed of 1600 km / h.
Are there two air tides in the mountain potholes, per day, does the speed and direction of the wind change, because moving the atmosphere is much easier than water?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 13:43:05
If the tidal forces existed, then the pressure of water and air would certainly react, especially during the parade of the planets.
It does.
We call this reaction "the tide".
ow cyclones and anticyclones manage to move from west to east, at a speed of 50 km / h, wiping the surface of the continents,

I already answered that.
Nothing actually moves at 1600 Km/Hr
Why do you keep going on about it?
Did you not understand the answer?

Are there two air tides in the mountain potholes, per day, does the speed and direction of the wind change, because moving the atmosphere is much easier than water?
Yes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_tide
Were you not aware of them?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 13:49:02
if the side of the moon turned to the earth is concave,
That's just silly.
The moon is nearly spherical and thus convex all over.
The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth:
What stops it?
There's nothing known that shields from gravity and it's range is infinite- as far as we can tell- it's certainly much longer range than the earth/ moon/ sun system because it keeps the outer planets in orbit.
The geostationary satellite of the Earth, acting as part of the Earth, is in zero gravity, at a distance of 35,000 km. from the Earth,
Obviously wrong.
If the satellite was in zero gravity there would be nothing keeping it in orbit and it would fly off into the cosmos.

and for some reason, is not exposed to the tidal influence of the Moon, despite the fact that the "tidal force" in the Earth-satellite system is 5 times greater than on Earth.
The tidal force is due not to gravity per se, but to the first derivative RT distance.
Essentially, because a satellite is small the difference between the moon's gravity is very very nearly the same on the near side as it is on the far side.
On the other hand, the Earth is big.


And it must not be forgotten that the oceans and continents are attracted by the Earth, and the satellite is in zero gravity ..
Why do you say that "must not be forgotten" when it is obviously not true.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 29/05/2018 14:00:27
if the side of the moon turned to the earth is concave,
That's just silly.
The moon is nearly spherical and thus convex all over.
The moon concave's Earths space time.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 14:05:37
if the side of the moon turned to the earth is concave,
That's just silly.
The moon is nearly spherical and thus convex all over.
The moon concave's Earths space time.
If that's the best you can do, then don't.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 29/05/2018 14:08:11
if the side of the moon turned to the earth is concave,
That's just silly.
The moon is nearly spherical and thus convex all over.
The moon concave's Earths space time.
If that's the best you can do, then don't.
Oh dude, I have not been asked to talk about tides , it is not that difficult of a subject.  As always we compose a list of what possibles there are that affect the  tides.

1)The moon
2)The sun
3)space time
4)The earths spin
5)Coriolis
6)Objects diversion
7)electrostatic force

Secondly we re-compose the list in magnitude of affect, I assume the moon is the primary affect?

1)Moon
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 14:14:44
To be fair, your comment some time ago
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg541485#msg541485
wasn't a bad summary of how tides work- it's not quite right but it's a hell of a lot closer than Femer05's nonsense.

You should probably quit while you are ahead.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 29/05/2018 14:22:21
To be fair, your comment some time ago
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg541485#msg541485
wasn't a bad summary of how tides work- it's not quite right but it's a hell of a lot closer than Femer05's nonsense.

You should probably quit while you are ahead.
Your link did not take me to anything I posted ,  I will step back out of the thread thought, particle 'polarisation'' and cyclic distribution is probably best left until the future , I left that out of my affects  list because it is electrodynamics based and a difficult subject.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 29/05/2018 14:31:32
It's time this site started to ban people who post anti-science.
Define anti-science ?

Don't you mean anti objective control ?

Are you trying to force the way we have to think on us ?  Turning us into AI bots?

Cognitive freedom my friend , you will never destroy that or enforce it .  We would still talk behind your back elsewhere trying to overthrow you .
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 14:55:00
Define anti-science ?
It's complex, but this will do for a start.#
Science comes up with an idea, and then tests it against real observations to see if it fits.
If it does not fit then the idea is modified or rejected.

Antiscience comes up with an idea and refuses to test it against reality.
If someone else tests it and finds it wanting, rather than attacking the argument or the evidence, antiscience attacks the author.
Or they just repeat the false claims. Sometimes thet add increasingly absurd embellishments.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 14:56:44
Your link did not take me to anything I posted ,
Oops, I got muddled. You are right; you haven't said anything helpful.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 29/05/2018 15:01:44

It's complex, but this will do for a start.#
Science comes up with an idea, and then tests it against real observations to see if it fits.
If it does not fit then the idea is modified or rejected.



No, science makes lots of theories with lots of absence of evidence or/and poor semantics.  An anti-scientist like myself comes along and tries to correct you with the correct semantics but by your own ignorance  defend that which is ostensible  even though it as been shown to be ostensible content.
Technically the real anti science in this matter is the people like yourself who are stopping science progressing to the next level of thoughts.

So what do you have to say for yourself , objectively the anti-science of this forum ?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 15:32:54
An anti-scientist like myself comes along and tries to correct you
You can't assert that you are "correct" without evidence.
Since the physical world contradicts you you are wrong.

The final arbiter is reality and your ideas don't fit with reality.
So you are wrong; there's nothing "ostensible" about it.
You are just making a fool of yourself.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 29/05/2018 15:37:35
You can't assert that you are "correct" without evidence.

The evidence is your evidence, the very same evidence.   So yes I can assert you are wrong because your own evidence shows you are wrong about how you present ''your own'' theories.  Understand you are both right and wrong at the same time on somethings.



Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/05/2018 16:01:05
Show me a single deduction made from your ides which can actually be shown to match the real world, where the conventional view does not.
But, for preference do it in another thread. This one's getting cluttered.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 29/05/2018 18:52:08
...a list of what possibles there are that affect the  tides.
1)The moon
2)The sun
3)space time
4)The earths spin
5)Coriolis
6)Objects diversion
7)electrostatic force
Secondly we re-compose the list in magnitude of affect, I assume the moon is the primary affect?
1)Moon
1) and 2), the Sun, right, logically together with own Earth gravity ,,,
3) Root actual cause of gravity and inertia, if space-time distortion, wouldn´t change main actors: those celestial massive bodies would be causing the distortion ...
4) Again: even if Earth didn´t spin, tides would occur, with some 28 days complete cycle, but also caused by Moon and Sun. Daily Earth spin just makes us perceive them in an apparent app. 1 day complete cycle ... Apart from local phenomena such as costal influences, resonances, Coriolis, whirlpools ... which can enhance or hinder the magnitude of the tides. 
7) Forget it: its effect is quite negligible ...
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 30/05/2018 14:05:51
"Lunar tidal current" moving from the Indian Ocean from east to west, crashing into the eastern shore of the island of Madagascar, contrary to expectations creates zero tides. And the abnormally high tidal wave for some reason arises between the island of Madagascar and the eastern coast of Africa. Wikipedia explains this discrepancy by the reflection of waves and by the fact that the Coriolis force is doing its job.
And the real reason for this inconsistency is the giant whirlpool, revolving around the island of Madagascar at a speed of 9 km / h, and precessing the reflecting tidal wave towards the eastern coast of Africa.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Течение_мыса_Игольного
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Мозамбикское_течение
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/ellie_boyce/tidal%20types%20fig.gif
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 30/05/2018 20:02:57
And the real reason for this inconsistency is the giant whirlpool,
You keep telling me about this whirlpool.
Do you mean this sort of thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/05/2018 09:04:00
Do you mean this sort of thing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
Correctly!
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 31/05/2018 13:45:10
If I spun myself around quickly enough, am I going to get a better chance of realising the topic?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 01/06/2018 14:23:21
So where is the best place to swim.....full or new moon?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 02/06/2018 02:42:31
Does the Van Allen radiation belt have mass that can affect the tidal force or axial tilt?

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 02/06/2018 15:29:02
No, and that's why gravity works......a rim of debris between the Earth and the Moon.

The Moon is Earth's saviour when it comes to debris.....if there's a near shot headed for Earth the pull of the Moon is directing it away from Earth towards itself.....so in time we have the Van Allen radiation belt.....a region of mass, particles......presumably from the Sun.

To say tides are the result of Earth born whirlpools, it sort of makes the idea of "new theory" very very "light", right?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 02/06/2018 18:56:23
To say tides are the result of Earth born whirlpools, it sort of makes the idea of "new theory" very very "light", right?
I suppose that is close .
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/06/2018 21:09:38
Many thanks to the creator of this forum, the moderators and my friends, for the opportunity to speak and be heard, which is extremely important to the farmer from the outback.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Colin2B on 03/06/2018 06:51:05
Does the Van Allen radiation belt have mass that can affect the tidal force or axial tilt?
Being made up of charged particles its mass is very, very small, too small to have any influence on tides. Also it doesn’t change with any periodicity that coincides with the tides.

Many thanks to the creator of this forum, the moderators and my friends, for the opportunity to speak and be heard, which is extremely important to the farmer from the outback.
You’re welcome. This section of the forum was created so folks can air a non-standard theory. Your’s certainly generated a lot of interest even though very few agree with you.
I think you do need to work on developing your calculations so you have a testable theory.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 04/06/2018 11:25:34
Again: what the OP is talking about is NOT the quite regular phenomenon we call tides, generally with two high and two low tides every app. 24 hours and 50 minutes, "curiously" the time it takes the MOON to repeat its position in the sky ...(Moon´s gravity doesn´t reach Earth ??). And with another cycle in their intensity of app. 28 days, with two maxima and two minima clearly connected to Sun-Moon relative position (neither Sun´s gravity affect tides ??) ...
They are JUST LOCAL tides, due to LOCAL phenomena, and not as regular as global tides, and theit existence doesn´t mean the OP is right in what he says ...
In one of the sites linked by him, headed:
"SEASONAL increase in the level of the waters of the seas and oceans",
one can read:
"Waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise,
and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools.
The MAIN REASON for the rotation of the whirlpools are, LOCAL WINDS, flowing into the seas
and oceans of the river AND the deflecting force of CORIOLIS.
And the higher the speed of the winds, the higher the rotation speed of the whirlpools,
and as a consequence, the higher the centrifugal force of the whirlpools, thereby raising
the level of the waters of the seas and oceans.
And the lower the rotation speed of the whirlpools, the lower the water level of the seas
and oceans ..."
Should we also call "tide" the water level surge when a hurricane? ... We could, but we would talking RUBBISH if we discussed their causes mixing up those phenomena !! 
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 04/06/2018 15:13:33
I think this video explains tide well. The title is "What Physics Teachers Get Wrong About Tides!"
The summary is that difference of gravitational force between nearest and furthest point on earth in earth-moon axis is too small to be the main cause of tidal bulge. Instead it is caused by the accumulation of forces on points outside of earth-moon axis.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 05/06/2018 07:52:39
link=topic=73127.msg543936#msg543936 date=1528121613]
The summary is that difference of gravitational force between nearest and furthest point on earth in earth-moon axis is too small to be the main cause of tidal bulge. Instead it is caused by the accumulation of forces on points outside of earth-moon axis.[/quote]
Thank you for your summary, but you have been too benevolent when watching and listening to that video.
The author explains that "accumulation of forces" (?) happens through a kind of hydraulic mechanism, that "squeezes" the oceans and mainly due to that the bulges are formed ... Rubbish !!
I´m pretty sure squeezing, if any, is quite negligible:
1) The active agent of the supposed hydraulic device would act on a relatively very small surface: a very narrow "belt" 90º away from sublunar point, less than 5º worth (Moon - Earth distance is app. 60 times the radius of Earth, and all pulls are almost parallel). On the rest of sea surface radial component of Moon´s pull are outwards, suctioning rather than squeezing !!
2) On that small area, where there is an inward component of Moon pull, the difference between that pull and required centripetal force for revolving is close to null: almost no "spare" pull, and therefore no tidal force.
3) And inward component of that difference is app. that tiny value divided by 60 ...
Quite NEGLIGIBLE compared to other intervening factors !!
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 06/06/2018 09:23:30
That may be true, yet have you heard of the idea of "mechanical resonance"? The idea is one of repeated juxtapositions of harmonic vibration that lead to far greater effects. I think Tesla presented this idea with his "earthquake maker" device. I also think Mythbusters did a segment on it, with surprising results.

If there is no mechanical resonance between the Moon and Earth after so many years of their association, well, we're not really looking outside the square are we, right?

Let me ask this question; "if there was no moon would the Earth still be what it is"?

If this forum is a puppet show in a certain and hopefully limited regard, I can't help but think a puppet has descended from the higher eschelons of forum authority to make the "new ideas" segment something bordering on the ridiculous, right? The section is deliberately called "light", yet new ideas are what makes science evolve to greater domains, righty right?

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 06/06/2018 18:25:47
Let me ask this question; "if there was no moon would the Earth still be what it is"?
No way!
- Moon rotation is supposed to make more stable the movement of the couple around the Sun.
- The tilt of the axis of Earth spinning is supposedly due to same collision that originated the Moon.
If no tilt, no seasonal anual cycle.
- What above is not 100% sure, but what follows is. Initially Earth was spinning at much faster pace: days as short as 6 or 7 hours ... That enormeous pace has been continuously reducing thanks to Moon-Éarth dynamics. If no Moon, that reduction would have been much, much slower (thanks to the Sun). 
- And Moon was as much as app. 10 times closer ...Tides were unbelievable huge, and enormous amount of minerals were draft from continents to the oceans, what originated the "primordial soup" where life started ... No Moon, no life. Or at least life would now be much, much less "advanced" ...
WE WOULDN´T BE HERE !   
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/06/2018 08:27:20
The waves of the killer are the result of the activity of the whirlpools.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
A tidal wave moving across the ocean is called a soliton.
https://goo.gl/images/URBn32
When a soliton collides with the coastline of the continent, tides develop. In the collision of solitons of two adjacent whirlpools, a wave of murderer is formed.
This can be checked by throwing two stones into a bath with water at the same time, in the collision of solitons, the emerging wave of the killer foams and a larger wave pulls a smaller wave a little.
You can create a half-meter wave killer, lasting 0.5 seconds, if two divers are simultaneously jumped "bomb" into the reservoir from a height of 2 meters, with a distance between them 3 meters.
If you throw two sugars in a glass of tea at the same time and there is a wave of a killer.
The mechanism of tidal wave formation in rivers and waves of killers in the oceans is similar.
And the height of the tidal wave in the river depends on the speed of water flow in the river
https://goo.gl/images/Tm13py
https://goo.gl/images/amdjwj

The location of the possible emergence of waves of assassins can be predicted, from the maps of whirlpools and, accordingly, to lay routes.
Approaching a wave killer or tsunami, you can partially neutralize, creating a series of counter waves, torpedoes or shells.
If two waves do not collide with one another, they freely walk across the ocean and they are called solitons or waves of Rossby.
"Three sisters is a collision of a soliton with three storm waves."

Solitons spread around themselves by whirlpools, colliding with storm waves, create a wave of the killer and are the main cause of wreck of the ships. And knowing the schedule of the distribution of solitons by eddies, you should choose the time and route of movement in the seas and oceans accordingly. The perimeter of the seas and oceans, I believe, is the most dangerous place for parking and moving ships, especially where there is a high swirl speed.
The whirlpool center, I believe, is the safest place to weather the weather, and in the center of the whirlpool, it is advisable to install a buoy.

Rotating around the Earth, the Moon hump would have to crash into the Sun hump, at a speed of 100 km. at an hour, which would give rise to a wave of a killer, of fantastic height and width.

In mountain lakes, partially blown by winds, after long winds, underwater or surface whirlpools often arise, and as a result tides, waves of the killer, seiches (Lake Baikal, Lake Verkhnee) are formed ..

http://goo.gl/7TBFcM
The map shows areas, the most frequent occurrence of waves of assassins.
In the North Atlantic, the waves of the killer are formed along the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary maelstrom, as a result of a tidal wave collision, with storm waves (three sisters) ..

http://goo.gl/THgCE4
The animation shows how in the Bermuda Triangle region, as a result of a collision of tidal waves created by the North Atlantic and South Atlantic planetary swirls, a wave of assassin is formed ..

The clock set on the animation shows that the waves of the killer in the Bermuda Triangle are formed twice a day, at 12 and 24 hours.
Based on the demonstrated animation, you can create a calendar for the formation of waves of assassins, not only for future years, but also for the previous ones.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 14/06/2018 06:19:52
That may be true, yet have you heard of the idea of "mechanical resonance"? The idea is one of repeated juxtapositions of harmonic vibration that lead to far greater effects. I think Tesla presented this idea with his "earthquake maker" device. I also think Mythbusters did a segment on it, with surprising results.

If there is no mechanical resonance between the Moon and Earth after so many years of their association, well, we're not really looking outside the square are we, right?

Let me ask this question; "if there was no moon would the Earth still be what it is"?

If this forum is a puppet show in a certain and hopefully limited regard, I can't help but think a puppet has descended from the higher eschelons of forum authority to make the "new ideas" segment something bordering on the ridiculous, right? The section is deliberately called "light", yet new ideas are what makes science evolve to greater domains, righty right?
No one answered the question of tidal resonance, this is a very important answer:
"Who is the author of the theory of tidal resonance and why this theory is not available on the Internet"?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 22/06/2018 11:20:36
The lunar theory of tides is based on:
1. On the blind faith of people, on the printed word.
2. People do not want to think for themselves.
It is believed that the maximum tides are formed in the new moon and the minimum tides are formed in a quadrature.
Has anyone checked this information?
(Minimal tides are formed in a full moon).
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 22/06/2018 12:16:02
Do we see evidence of rotating planets/satellites with gaseous atmospheres that behave tidally because of their spins?

...Beyond Earth of course....
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 22/06/2018 18:26:35
(Minimal tides are formed in a full moon).
Utterly wrong.
When full Moon ( a couple of days afterwards, to be more precise), as when new Moon, tidal effects due to the Moon and due to the Sun add up directly, and we have maximum tides.
When new Moon direct pull from Moon and Sun add up, and so do centrifugal (inertial) forces which cause antipodal bulge.
When full Moon, Moon´s direct pull and Sun´s related centrifugal (inertial) forces add up, and so do Sun´s direct pull and Moon´s related centrifugal (inertial) forces.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/06/2018 05:06:43
Fluctuation of the amplitude of tides during the month is a rather complex phenomenon of nature and it will be rather difficult to explain it without a model of the solar system.
This is due to the oscillation of the orbital velocity of the earth, and the complex trajectory of the earth's motion in orbit, because of the barycenter.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 24/06/2018 07:21:20
Fluctuation of the amplitude of tides during the month is a rather complex phenomenon of nature and it will be rather difficult to explain it without a model of the solar system.
This is due to the oscillation of the orbital velocity of the earth, and the complex trajectory of the earth's motion in orbit, because of the barycenter.
I partially agree with first paragraph. Moon tidal effects are the biggest, and what we see are their daily changes due to Earth spin, though they include kind of hidden Sun tidal effects.
"Fluctuation of the amplitude of tides during the month is a rather complex phenomenon of nature",
right, but only if we want to be very precise ...
Because the bulk of that oscillation is due to a very simple cause: individual Moon and Sun effects add up as two vectors do, when their relative angle oscillates from 0º to 360º during each Moon cycle (new Moon to next new Moon).
Your last paragraph, "This is due to the oscillation of the orbital velocity of the earth, and the complex trajectory of the earth's motion in orbit, because of the barycenter", seems to be unfinished (because of "the barycenter" ... ??). I couldn´t say whether I think that is also right or not ...
   
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/06/2018 09:35:39
Fluctuation of the amplitude of tides during the month is a rather complex phenomenon of nature and it will be rather difficult to explain it without a model of the solar system.
This is due to the oscillation of the orbital velocity of the earth, and the complex trajectory of the earth's motion in orbit, because of the barycenter.
Your last paragraph, "This is due to the oscillation of the orbital velocity of the earth, and the complex trajectory of the earth's motion in orbit, because of the barycenter", seems to be unfinished (because of "the barycenter" ... ??). I couldn´t say whether I think that is also right or not ...
 
Done right:
The center of the earth can be imagined as a material point that moves in orbit at a speed of about 30 km / s, while the Bay of Fundy revolving around this point at a speed of 1,700 km / h, moves relative to the sun, then forward and backward, then tops downwards, which adds additional complexity.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/06/2018 09:39:03
Do we see evidence of rotating planets/satellites with gaseous atmospheres that behave tidally because of their spins?

...Beyond Earth of course....
Yes
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/new-research-reveals-fluctuating-atmosphere-of-jupiter-s-volcanic-moon
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 24/06/2018 11:36:08
Done right:
The center of the earth can be imagined as a material point that moves in orbit at a speed of about 30 km / s, while the Bay of Fundy revolving around this point at a speed of 1,700 km / h, moves relative to the sun, then forward and backward, then tops downwards, which adds additional complexity.
You seem to forget that what actually moves in elliptical orbit around our Sun is the Earth-Moon common center of mas (barycenter) ... Earth´s c.g. has an additional movement of revolving around that point. The addition of both movements results in a curled path of Earth c.g. ... and with oscillating linear velocity: maximum when new Moon, and minimum when full Moon !!
Rather a complicated movement ... But it, and its effects, can be analyzed separately: the annual revolving around the Sun, and the app. monthly revolving around Earth-Moon barycenter.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/06/2018 13:12:56
This section of the forum was created so folks can air a non-standard theory. Your’s certainly generated a lot of interest even though very few agree with you.
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Saint-Malo-France/tides/latest
 http://geosfera.org/evropa/718-la-mansh-proliv-mezhdu-angliey-i-franciey.html
This link shows that the height of the tides in the Gulf of Saint-Malo can determine the speed of the current in the Bay of La Mancha.
This month, the average height of the tides is about 10 meters and the speed of the current should be about 10 km / h.
If these numbers do not coincide, then the whirlpool theory can be considered a mistake.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/06/2018 18:18:24
few agree with you.
Ask questions, I am ready to answer all questions.
(The more errors in the theory, the easier it is to refute the theory. The more experienced an opponent, the easier it is to convince him).
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Colin2B on 01/07/2018 09:17:11
This link shows that the height of the tides in the Gulf of Saint-Malo can determine the speed of the current in the Bay of La Mancha.
This month, the average height of the tides is about 10 meters and the speed of the current should be about 10 km / h.
If these numbers do not coincide, then the whirlpool theory can be considered a mistake.
Last time I gave you figures showing your ‘calculations were wrong you just changed your guess, so I don’t intend to to give you the actual figures.
10km/h is 5.4kts, I checked the dates you gave and the current is nowhere near that value.
So, “the whirlpool theory can be considered a mistake”.
No point wasting more time on it, bye.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/07/2018 18:09:07
So, “the whirlpool theory can be considered a mistake”.
No point wasting more time on it, bye.

Name other numbers, and I will not lose your and your precious time:
Table: The dependence of the amplitude of the tides of the Bay of Fundy, on the flow velocity in the north of the Gulf of Maine.
1 km / h - 5 m
5 km / h - 10 m
10 km / h - 15 m
15 km / h - 20 m

The average speed of the current in the Channel is 12-13 km / h.
The maximum height of the tides is 15 m (the city of Saint-Malo, France).
http://geosfera.org/evropa/718-la-mansh-proliv-mezhdu-angliey-i-franciey.html
https: /.../ m.youtube.com/watch?v=M44miAiHhrk
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/07/2018 09:21:10
The waters of the North Sea rotate counter-clockwise, and the rotation speed of water depends on the speed of the current in the La Mancha. https://goo.gl/images/RaQSkm
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/07/2018 10:48:08
I'm just wondering.
Did you not read this, or did you not understand it?
So, “the whirlpool theory can be considered a mistake”.
No point wasting more time on it, bye.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/07/2018 12:47:57
Even if I want to give up this theory, most of the people in the forum will not support me.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 09/07/2018 11:12:38
I´ve seen many people somehow have rather confused ideas about daily manifested tides (does Earth daily spinning cause tides ??), when Moon-Earth "dance" movements have almost a month period ... That´s why I´ve decided to send this post. 
When discussing with somebody else things said on the very interesting articles (because I don´t agree with many things said there):
https://www.lockhaven.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/tides.htm#centrip
https://www.lockhaven.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/centrip.htm
he asked me what below. 
I answered what follows.
"Your question:
" ...(I had previously said)  DAILY Earth spinning causes the "permanent" equatorial bulge, but it has NOTHING to do with Moon-Earth dynamics ... Does this mean that you also agree that the earth's spinning has nothing to do with tides?"
My answer:
I chose carefully my words. There is a trick is in the way you put the question ... The earth's spinning has nothing to do WITH THE ROOT CAUSE OF TIDES, but it does with the way they manifest ...
When we say "tides", in its global sense (local changes of sea level can have other causes), we refer to the cyclical change of sea level related mainly to Moon position in its monthly rotation. To analyze their actual causes, we have to disregard the daily spinning of our planet (imaging we check the position of the bulges everyday at same time). That way we would have the bulges, always in line with the Moon, "moving" around our planet in an app. 28 days "two-parts" cycle ...
THAT IS the basic phenomenon of tides.
BUT, as Earth does spin daily, its meridian in line with the Moon changes continuously, and though bulges maintain its position relative to the Moon, they continuously change meridian too. And Moon related tides SEEM to have an app. 12+12 h. cycle ...
BUT THAT SPINNING doesn´t cause the tides, though it causes the so called equatorial bulge, easily explainable as done on previously linked sites, when analyzing how we weigh less on lower latitudes, especially on the equator: 
"... Now compare these two cases. On the non-rotating Earth the man's weight was of size mg. Remember, the weight of an object is the force required to support it, i.e., the force exerted upward by the weighing scale. With the Earth rotating, that force is smaller than before. The contact force between the man's feet and the scale is reduced. But all other such stress forces are reduced as well, within the man, within the scale's springs, within the body of the Earth itself. This causes a slight decompression of these materials, a relaxation of the spring in the scales. In fact, the entire body of the earth expands slightly and the man and scale move outward from the axis of rotation slightly, until forces come into balance with the requirements of rotational stability at the new radius. This is the reason for the equatorial bulge of the Earth due to its own axial rotation".
ANOTHER THING is that the monthly revolving of the Earth in its "dance" with the Moon, also causes similar inertia related effects (not to use tricky concept "centrifugal forces"), which actually are one of the causes of tides, especially on the hemisphere further from the Moon, where antipodal bulge appears ...
On closer hemisphere, though those inertial effects have also an outward direction, as Moon´s pull there is higher, the later prevails and the better understood bulge builds towards the Moon !!
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/07/2018 00:57:57
The opening was published in the Russian-German scientific peer-reviewed journal "Eastern European Scientific Journal" No. 3/2015. 64. June
http://www.auris-archiv.de/journal.html
Scientific journal "NBIX-Nauka. Technology" No. 4/2018. Page 104.
(Nanotechnological Society of Russia)
http://www.rusnor.org/pubs/articles/15638.htm
A positive review was also received from the Institute of Geography of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
I think the magazines that published the theory knew what kind of responsibility they bear if they make a mistake.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: rmolnav on 16/07/2018 11:55:47
For those not interested on a thorough explanation of the two daily high tides, A REALLY SIMPLE one is what said by NOAA, "question" nº 10 as on:
https://www.lockhaven.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/tides.htm#centrip 
"Gravity and inertia are opposing forces acting on the earth's oceans, creating tidal bulges on opposite sides of the planet. On the near side of the earth (the side facing the moon), the gravitational force of the moon pulls the ocean's waters toward it, creating one bulge.
On the far side of the earth, inertial forces dominate, creating a second bulge
" (see figure on linked site).
All that is RIGHT, though not complete. Across the oceans both moon´s gravitational forces and inertial forces act ... BUT we have to understand the term "inertial forces" as "inertia related forces", NOT in the restricted sense "dsimanek" article author says:
" The text speaks of "inertial forces", without saying that such a term has no meaning except in a non-inertial coordinate system" ...
WHATEVER the reference system, the revolving of earth around the barycenter makes ALL its parts follow identical circular paths. That implies a "tendency" (due to INERTIA) of water to follow the tangent ... On the far side that kind of lightens water, as in the explanation of the very article author´s of the so called equatorial bulge:
https://www.lockhaven.edu/~dsimanek/scenario/centrip.htm
where explaining why on the equator we weigh less than at higher latitudes, he says (see image at linked site): 
"The figure shows the force vectors W and mg, which are the only forces acting on the man. The vector F is their sum. W is directed along the radius of the Earth. Being the radial component of the net force (it is the net force in this case), its size is a = v2/R (the centripetal force). Now compare these two cases. On the non-rotating Earth the man's weight was of size mg. Remember, the weight of an object is the force required to support it, i.e., the force exerted upward by the weighing scale. With the Earth rotating, that force is smaller than before. The contact force between the man's feet and the scale is reduced. But all other such stress forces are reduced as well, within the man, within the scale's springs, within the body of the Earth itself. This causes a slight decompression of these materials, a relaxation of the spring in the scales. In fact, the entire body of the earth expands slightly and the man and scale move outward from the axis of rotation slightly, until forces come into balance with the requirements of rotational stability at the new radius. This is the reason for the equatorial bulge of the Earth due to its own axial rotation".
Why "on earth" we, as NOAA scientists do, could not call those water weight lightenings "inertia related forces", or even "inertial forces" ??
NOAA scientists also say "On the far side of the earth, inertial forces dominate”…  QUITE RIGHT too,  because there moon´s pull is smaller.
They could also have said "On the near side of the earth, gravitational forces dominate" (there moon´s pull is bigger than "inertial forces"), though they only say "On the near side of the earth (the side facing the moon), the gravitational force of the moon pulls the ocean's waters toward it, creating one bulge".
That is why I consider all that is RIGHT, though not complete ...
"Dsimanek" author critic could only be explained as a biassed attitude due to his visceral opposition to anything different to his idea that ONLY gravitational gradient intervienes on bulge formation … IT DOES, BUT IT IS ONLY ONE OF THE SIDES OF THE COIN !!
It could not be otherwise. The absence of those "inertial" forces (not to use the even more controversial term "centrifugal"), would imply no circular movement of the Earth around the barycenter, and Earth and Moon could not have kept their precise "dance" for billions of years... Moon (or its material) either would have gone away to the space, or would have fallen back onto the Earth, long, long ago !!
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 16/07/2018 12:40:28
a rotating planet usually does its stuff.....when a satellite comes into play, it plays, right?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 23/07/2018 10:25:24
The opening was published in the Russian-German scientific peer-reviewed journal "Eastern European Scientific Journal" No. 3/2015. 64. June
http://www.auris-archiv.de/journal.html
Scientific journal "NBIX-Nauka. Technology" No. 4/2018. Page 104.
(Nanotechnological Society of Russia)
http://www.rusnor.org/pubs/articles/15638.htm
A positive review was also received from the Institute of Geography of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
I think the magazines that published the theory knew what kind of responsibility they bear if they make a mistake.
I think many institutes gladly published this theory on their websites and magazines, if they knew that there is such a theory.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 23/07/2018 10:28:45
Water is one thing, what about tectonic movement?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Colin2B on 23/07/2018 11:31:38
Water is one thing, what about tectonic movement?
Influence of moon sun combination causes a regular 12 hr shift of earth’s surface by up to a metre. Can influence volcanic eruptions.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 23/07/2018 11:58:19
Yes....this discussion we should consider vulnerable to basic planetary issues?



Someone leaving:



Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/07/2018 10:00:57
The earth as any living organism grows mainly due to the mass of light, as the planet's mass increases, the temperature of the planet also rises.
For this reason, there is a movement of continents and earthquakes.
If South America and Africa were a single continent, then where the two largest rivers, Amazon and Congo fell, and whether there were any traces from the sea.
In the formation of planets, the laws of celestial mechanics are involved, which have not yet been fully studied. (The three-body problem, and the cause of the axial and orbital rotation of the planets is not yet revealed).
And tectonic plates, in my opinion, can not be formed.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/07/2018 10:43:40
The earth as any living organism grows mainly due to the mass of light.
For this reason, there is a movement of continents and earthquakes.
The formation of planets involved the laws of mechanics, which are still poorly understood.
And the plates in my opinion, can not be formed.
Do you realise this is a science site?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/07/2018 15:16:37
The earth as any living organism grows mainly due to the mass of light, as the planet's mass increases, the temperature of the planet also rises.
For this reason, there is a movement of continents and earthquakes.
If South America and Africa were a single continent, then where the two largest rivers, Amazon and Congo fell, and whether there were any traces from the sea.
In the formation of planets, the laws of celestial mechanics are involved, which have not yet been fully studied. (The three-body problem, and the cause of the axial and orbital rotation of the planets is not yet revealed).
And tectonic plates, in my opinion, can not be formed.
Do you realise this is a science site?
Opportunity asked the question, I responded to it as I could, given that I'm on a branch of a new theory, I think that the old theory of very few people are interested.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Kryptid on 24/07/2018 15:58:06
The earth as any living organism grows mainly due to the mass of light, as the planet's mass increases, the temperature of the planet also rises.

The Earth receives light from the Sun at a power of 174 petawatts. The age of the Earth is 4.54 billion years (143 quadrillion seconds). If the power received from the Sun has been constant over that time (even though it hasn't, as the Sun's luminosity was lower in the past), that amounts to a total of 2.049 x 1034 joules reaching the Earth. If we assume that every last joule of that energy was absorbed and retained by the Earth (and it hasn't been, not by a long shot), then we can calculate that the total mass increase of the Earth (due to E=mc2) is 228 quadrillion kilograms.

That may sound like a lot, but the total mass of the Earth is 5.97237 x 1024 kilograms. So the maximum possible theoretical mass gain from solar radiation over the Earth's entire lifespan assuming perfect absorption is only 0.0000038% of its current mass. This is the equivalent to adding the mass of a mosquito (2.5 milligrams) to a 66 kilogram person. It's practically nothing.

Quote
And tectonic plates, in my opinion, can not be formed.

They must be capable of forming somehow, as they are indeed there.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/07/2018 16:31:00
The earth as any living organism grows mainly due to the mass of light, as the planet's mass increases, the temperature of the planet also rises.
For this reason, there is a movement of continents and earthquakes.
In the formation of planets, the laws of celestial mechanics are involved, which have not yet been fully studied. (The three-body problem, and the cause of the axial and orbital rotation of the planets is not yet revealed).
And tectonic plates, in my opinion, can not be formed.
Do you realise this is a science site?
Opportunity asked the question, I responded to it as I could, given that I'm on a branch of a new theory, I think that the old theory of very few people are interested.
What you call a "theory" is just a guess.

As Kryptid has pointed out, your ideas don't make sense.
They do not fit with reality.
This is not because reality has made a mistake.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/07/2018 16:48:13
The theme of tectonic plates I think should be transferred to an already existing topic, or create a new topic.
I do not know this topic well.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/07/2018 06:54:44
If South America and Africa were a single continent, then where the two largest rivers, Amazon and Congo fell, and whether there were any traces from the sea.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: opportunity on 25/07/2018 14:39:25
The guys who landed on the Moon said it was like walking on ash, and it smelled like a camp fire.

The only thing that can do those yards is something very close to the sun, like Mercury.....

Point being, no one's really made that point.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 26/07/2018 08:34:54
The drift of India stopped the continent, thanks to which the highest mountains were formed.
And what stopped Madagascar and Australia.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Kryptid on 26/07/2018 16:45:40
And what stopped Madagascar and Australia.

Whoever said they have stopped?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Colin2B on 27/07/2018 09:13:09
And what stopped Madagascar and Australia.

Whoever said they have stopped?
You are right @Kryptid none of the plates have stopped. Eg the mid atlantic is moving apart at around 2cm a year.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/07/2018 06:43:56
The drift of India stopped the continent, thanks to which the highest mountains were formed.
And what stopped Madagascar and Australia.
India first moves to the south, then to the east, then turns, then goes north crossing the equator, now presses on Asia creating the Pamir mountains.
The main question is what kind of power is behind this complex movement.
There should not be such a force in nature.
Cyclones and anticyclones can move in all directions, but they can not cross the equator.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Thebox on 28/07/2018 08:14:42
The drift of India stopped the continent, thanks to which the highest mountains were formed.
And what stopped Madagascar and Australia.
India first moves to the south, then to the east, then turns, then goes north crossing the equator, now presses on Asia creating the Pamir mountains.
The main question is what kind of power is behind this complex movement.
There should not be such a force in nature.
Cyclones and anticyclones can move in all directions, but they can not cross the equator.
Because like in any spinning disk, the disk is a plane and the energy is directed outwards. Cyclones etc use field lines that curve, is like hitting an invisible barrier.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/07/2018 09:39:09
To find out the reason for the continental drift.
We must first know the cause of the formation of the planets, and then find out the cause of the formation of continents and oceans, only then talk about the drift of the continents.
Otherwise, there will be no end to polemics.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Colin2B on 28/07/2018 09:53:07
The main question is what kind of power is behind this complex movement.
There should not be such a force in nature.
Cyclones and anticyclones can move in all directions, but they can not cross the equator.
As with your incorrect theory of tides you are again missing the true cause of these continental movements. 
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/07/2018 09:57:32
And I know this well:
If a couple of billion years ago, the Earth did rotate faster, then the precession of the whirlpools was more significant.
The Mariana Trench and the Mariana Islands, I believe, is the result of precession of the whirlpools, and as a rule, on the edge of all depressions in the ocean, there is an arch of islands, and around the islands, a fairly powerful whirlpool rotates.
At the bottom of the Mariana depression there is no hydrogen sulphide.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/07/2018 12:39:53
The Mariana Trench and the Mariana Islands, I believe,
You can believe what you like; but this is a science web page.
If you want to be taken seriously, you need to provide evidence.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Kryptid on 28/07/2018 15:47:20
The main question is what kind of power is behind this complex movement.
Convection currents in the mantle.

Quote
There should not be such a force in nature.
According to who? Chaotic motion is pretty easy to observe in many systems.

Quote
Cyclones and anticyclones can move in all directions, but they can not cross the equator.

Tectonic plates are not cyclones nor do they behave like them. The forces involved are different.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/07/2018 19:39:34
And I know this well:
If a couple of billion years ago, the Earth did rotate faster, then the precession of the whirlpools was more significant.
The Mariana Trench and the Mariana Islands, I believe, is the result of precession of the whirlpools, and as a rule, on the edge of all depressions in the ocean, there is an arch of islands, and around the islands, a fairly powerful whirlpool rotates.
At the bottom of the Mariana depression there is no hydrogen sulphide.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench
There is a strict pattern:
Over the ocean trenches moves a rapid current, and there are tides and vertical movement of water.

Trenches are generally parallel to a volcanic island arc, and about 200 km (120 mi) from a volcanic arc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_trench
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/07/2018 10:37:14
Many will probably agree that the river water has created rivers.
If we assume that a couple of billion years ago the whole earth was covered with water and rotated faster, then the precession of the whirlpools was more significant, and the whirlpools could create the oceans, and the Mariana trench. And as a rule, on the edge of all trenches in the ocean, there is an arch of islands, and around the islands, a fairly powerful whirlpool rotates.
(The laws of nature are universal.) Lao Tzu.
There is a strict pattern:
Oceanic trenches are formed along the perimeter of the oceans, and over them a rapid current moves, tides and vertical movement of water are formed.
At the bottom of the Mariana depression there is no hydrogen sulphide.
Trenches are generally parallel to a volcanic island arc, and about 200 km (120 mi) from a volcanic arc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_trench
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/07/2018 11:11:37
If we assume that a couple of billion years ago the whole earth was covered with water
What happens if we don't make impossible assumptions?
Why would we make silly assumptions like that?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/07/2018 14:25:08
Many probably agree that the river water has created the river bed.
If we assume that a couple of billion years ago the whole earth was covered with water and rotated faster, then the precession of the whirlpools was more significant, and the whirlpools could create the oceans, and the Mariana trench. And as a rule, on the edge of all trenches in the ocean, there is an arch of islands, and around the islands, a fairly powerful whirlpool rotates.
(The laws of nature are universal.) Lao Tzu.
There is a strict pattern:
Oceanic trenches are formed along the perimeter of the oceans, and over them a rapid current moves, tides and vertical movement of water are formed.
At the bottom of the Mariana depression there is no hydrogen sulphide.
Trenches are generally parallel to a volcanic island arc, and about 200 km (120 mi) from a volcanic arc.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_trench
What's wrong here, give more objective criticism.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/07/2018 14:37:01
What's wrong here, give more objective criticism.
I told you what's wrong.
You ignored it.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/08/2018 06:06:15
What's wrong here, give more objective criticism.
I told you what's wrong.
You ignored it.
I answered all the questions (95 answers), but not all questions were correctly put, I could not answer them.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/08/2018 14:14:16
In the Laptev Sea, the tide is well expressed, has the character of an irregular semidiurnal wave. A tidal wave enters, from the north and spreads to the shores, fading and deforming as they move towards them. The magnitude of the tide is usually small, mostly about 0.5 m. Only in the Khatanga Bay the sweep of tidal vibrations exceeds 2.0 m in syzygy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptev_Sea
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/08/2018 14:32:01
In the Laptev Sea, the tide is well expressed, has the character of an irregular semidiurnal wave. A tidal wave enters, from the north and spreads to the shores, fading and deforming as they move towards them. The magnitude of the tide is usually small, mostly about 0.5 m. Only in the Khatanga Bay the sweep of tidal vibrations exceeds 2.0 m in syzygy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptev_Sea
How does the tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can constructively answer this question.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/08/2018 14:50:18
"How can a tidal wave move from the north."
Who can answer this question.

Anyone who knows what the words mean.
If there is an earthquake at sea somewhere north of you then there will be a tidal wave from the north.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/08/2018 08:51:48
How does the tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can constructively answer this question.

Anyone who knows what the words mean.
If there is an earthquake at sea somewhere north of you then there will be a tidal wave from the north.
Persuasive argument.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 18:50:03
It SURPRISES me this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would really happen without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA I can´t find now”.
And subsequently, erroneous things are being said, since the proposition of the question.
Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
How “on Earth” the OP can say:
"The gravity of the moon does not reach the Earth”? … (!!!)
Has he never had any experience similar to mine?
I suggest anybody interested to have a look at :
where it´s clearly seen that daily movement of the bulges is only apparent, that they are almost still and it is the solid part of our planet (though also the bulk of ocean waters due to friction) what is actually spinning …
The formation of the bulges is a rather slow process (some 28 days the complete cycle, as far as Moon related tides are concerned, and one full year in the case of Sun related tides) … Nothing to do with all those daily local whirlpools, due to the much faster Earth spin, and with any other local singularity.
NO single local daily phenomenon should be used to try to refute the FACT that Moon and Sun gravitational pulls, together with inertial effects (unveiled by Newton long ago), are the root causes of “globalized” tides. Physical details on how those tides happen can be discussed, because even there is no general agreement on things such as centrifugal forces, and other issues inherent in the complexity of nature ... But mentioned FACT can be seen by everybody, and matches with BASIC physics laws !!! 
Thank you for sharing that video, I do not want to ruin this thread with my science so I will step back out.  But I will leave you with this:

The Natural ''flow'' of the ocean is East to West   ←   The Moon pulls the natural ''flow'' the opposite way →

When the Moon ''let's go'' , the ocean returns to it's normal ''flow''.

Ok im out , sorry for intruding. Apologies for posting in other peoples thread.
Thebox, confirm your post.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Thebox on 31/08/2018 19:02:45
Thebox, confirm your post.
What do you mean ?

Oh oh,  my own post makes absolutely no sense to me......I can't confirm that because I do not  know what I wrote.....


ok....

added:cannon balls with no moon
* with no moon.jpg (101.87 kB . 2952x1364 - viewed 913 times)



Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Thebox on 31/08/2018 20:02:09

* with no moon.jpg (138.85 kB . 2952x1364 - viewed 911 times)

So the moon maybe flattens the bulges and that is what does the tides, anything else why I am here  ?

I did already say contraction and expansion, i.e the bulge . :P

Here u go like this maybe...
* press.jpg (101.28 kB . 2952x1364 - viewed 907 times)

Just warming  up , what do you want to know?


Added- yes thats right, the moon pushes not pulls, and displaces the bulges to make tidal expansion or contraction...

 :P  :) :)

Like a cam works....
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 20:16:54
And maybe not.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Thebox on 31/08/2018 20:26:29
And maybe not.

It makes sense, two inertia gravitational bulges caused by Newtons cannon ball affect, then the moons compression of the bulges creating tidal contraction or expansion . If you press on the bulge the tide comes in surely...if you remove the pressure then it contracts back to  form .
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 20:30:57
We are going too far from the topic.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Thebox on 31/08/2018 20:35:47
We are going too far from the topic.
Are we ? It should be something like this I think ....no moon in this pic...you said whirl pools..


* flow.jpg (193.91 kB . 2952x1364 - viewed 900 times)

added, be back later, kids playing up, hard concentrate.

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 03:29:54
In the Laptev Sea, the tide is well expressed, has the character of an irregular semidiurnal wave. A tidal wave enters, from the north and spreads to the shores, fading and deforming as they move towards them. The magnitude of the tide is usually small, mostly about 0.5 m. Only in the Khatanga Bay the sweep of tidal vibrations exceeds 2.0 m in syzygy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptev_Sea
How can a tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can constructively answer this question.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Kryptid on 01/09/2018 04:55:05
In the Laptev Sea, the tide is well expressed, has the character of an irregular semidiurnal wave. A tidal wave enters, from the north and spreads to the shores, fading and deforming as they move towards them. The magnitude of the tide is usually small, mostly about 0.5 m. Only in the Khatanga Bay the sweep of tidal vibrations exceeds 2.0 m in syzygy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptev_Sea
How can a tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can answer this question.

Bored Chemist already answered that question in reply #266. I know that you read it because I saw you respond to it. If you are just going to ignore the answers that are given to you, why are you even going to bother asking questions?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 09:07:07
In the Laptev Sea, the tide is well expressed, has the character of an irregular semidiurnal wave. A tidal wave enters, from the north and spreads to the shores, fading and deforming as they move towards them. The magnitude of the tide is usually small, mostly about 0.5 m. Only in the Khatanga Bay the sweep of tidal vibrations exceeds 2.0 m in syzygy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptev_Sea
How can a tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can constructively answer this question.

Bored Chemist already answered that question in reply #266. I know that you read it because I saw you respond to it. If you are just going to ignore the answers that are given to you, why are you even going to bother asking questions?
A boring chemist himself does not consider this an answer.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 01/09/2018 09:13:37
How can a tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can answer this question.
I can.
But as you consistently fail to read (or understand) what I post and just keep repeating your posts, i am no longer going to continue responding.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 09:53:38
How does the tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can constructively answer this question.

Anyone who knows what the words mean.
If there is an earthquake at sea somewhere north of you then there will be a tidal wave from the north.
Persuasive argument.
Please specify the answer.
1. How many times a day are earthquakes?
2. What is the applied earthquake hour.
3. Are there earthquakes, on the other side of the Earth, to form a second tidal hump?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 10:50:49
What's wrong here, give more objective criticism.
I told you what's wrong.
You ignored it.
I answered all the questions (95 answers), but not all questions were correctly put, I could not answer them.
I have no problems answering your questions. I easily answer all your questions if they are correctly asked and translated.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Kryptid on 01/09/2018 15:40:21
Please specify the answer.
1. How many times a day are earthquakes?
2. What is the applied earthquake hour.
3. Are there earthquakes, on the other side of the Earth, to form a second tidal hump?

Earthquakes don't cause tidal humps, but that doesn't matter because your original question was about tidal waves. If you weren't talking about tidal waves, then you should not have used that term. The difference has already been explained to you.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 17:41:37
In the Laptev Sea, the tide is well expressed, has the character of an irregular semidiurnal wave. A tidal wave enters, from the north and spreads to the shores, fading and deforming as they move towards them. The magnitude of the tide is usually small, mostly about 0.5 m. Only in the Khatanga Bay the sweep of tidal vibrations exceeds 2.0 m in syzygy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptev_Sea
How does the tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can constructively answer this question.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/09/2018 17:54:26
How does the tidal wave move from the north pole to the south.
Who can constructively answer this question.
Anyone who knows what the words mean.
If there is an earthquake at sea somewhere north of you then there will be a tidal wave from the north.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 05/09/2018 07:06:54
1.Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
2. And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
This is too much.
During the tide on the Spanish coast of the Atlantic Ocean, the Moon must hang over Europe.
But the Moon can hang over America, or anywhere.
Focusing on the moon, no one can determine the time of the tide.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 06/09/2018 09:46:37
1.Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
2. And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
This is too much.
During the tide on the Spanish coast of the Atlantic Ocean, the Moon must hang over Europe.
But the Moon can hang over America, or anywhere.
Focusing on the moon, no one can determine the time of the tide.
Who can answer this question.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: The Spoon on 06/09/2018 12:46:39
1.Long ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
2. And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
This is too much.
During the tide on the Spanish coast of the Atlantic Ocean, the Moon must hang over Europe.
But the Moon can hang over America, or anywhere.
Focusing on the moon, no one can determine the time of the tide.
Who can answer this question.
Probably somebody who believes the earth is flat...
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: rmolnav on 06/09/2018 19:19:15
This is too much. During the tide on the Spanish coast of the Atlantic Ocean, the Moon must hang over Europe.
But the Moon can hang over America, or anywhere.
Focusing on the moon, no one can determine the time of the tide.
Rubbish!!
From Madrid, just looking at the moon, I can say many things about the tides on the Spanish coast of the Atlantic Ocean, such as:
1) Rising full moon (always at sun set): about an hour latter, spring low tides ...
2) Full moon at midnight (always at local meridian zenith): about an hour latter spring high tides ...
3) First day visible new moon app. at sun set (some 360/14 degrees eastwards from the sun: in app. 3 hours low tides.
4) Quarter moon (when "growing": not sure now about its correct name) at local meridian zenith (always app. at 18:00): high neap tide in about an hour ...
Is that "too much" ?? Not at all whatsoever !!
Please keep in mind the given figures come directly from my head ... It could be some time earlier or later, especially because of the gap between moon meridian and high tide meridian, due to the fast spinning of earth, which doesn´t allow the high tide bulge to catch up with sublunar meridian ...
Apart from that gap, also maximum and minimum tide size are one or two days after full/new moon exact day, and quarter moon exact day ...
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 06/09/2018 19:23:33
This is too much.
During the tide on the Spanish coast of the Atlantic Ocean, the Moon must hang over Europe.
But the Moon can hang over America, or anywhere.

The Moon can be over Europe or over America- but not at the same time.
High tide today is due at about 7pm in Washington DC local time. Local time is 5 hrs behind UK time so that's about 12 midnight UK time
And high tide is due at about 02:45 on the West coast of Spain. They are 1 hr ahead of us so that means it will be high tide 03:45 UK time
So, very roughly, and ignoring things like daylight saving time, the high tides on the opposite sides of the Atlantic are something like 4 hours apart.

So, (broadly) when the Moon is over New York, it's high tide there, and when the Moon is over Spain, it's high tide there.
The Earth rotates under the Moon
In the 4 hours or so time difference between high tide on the 2 sides of the ocean the world will rotate about 4/24 of a circle that's about 60 degrees.
The longitude of Washington is about 77 degrees West and that of the  Spanish coast is about 8 degrees West
So the difference is about 70 degrees.
Given the rough nature of the calculation, that's close enough to the expected value.

Why do you think this is a problem?
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 07/09/2018 07:01:51
В ago when I was a boy, I already realized that, e.g., strongest high tides were always at same time, and when full or new Moon, in Atlantic coast of Spain where I was in summer holiday.
And nowadays, just seeing the Moon in Madrid sky at a certain moment, I can tell how high is the tide at mentioned coast, and also if the tide coefficient is high or low, without any complicated maths or any additional information.
Questions.
You tried to determine the height of the tides by conducting the moon and the sun, so the forecast will be more accurate.
2. On which coast of Spain you determined the height of the tide, you can find out what the speed of the current is.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: rmolnav on 07/09/2018 10:48:38
Questions.
You tried to determine the height of the tides by conducting the moon and the sun, so the forecast will be more accurate.
2. On which coast of Spain you determined the height of the tide, you can find out what the speed of the current is.
1) Only moon location counts for whether there is a high or a low tide, or the intermediate hights ... Sun works independently, ALWAYS with its own high tidal effect app. an hour after noon and midnight ... Those sun-related effects, to be added to moon´s, are the main cause of actual oscillation of tide size.
 2) Yesterday we were talking about tides at Spain Atlantic cost, and particularly at Gulf of Cádiz. From Madrid there is a small additional delay, which I didn´t consider ... At Galitzian atlantic coast everything happens a little later ...
ALL THAT demonstrates moon (and sun) pull, and inertial centrifugal forces, are the real cause of global oceanic tides ...
Another thing is local effects, whirlpools, currents generated, etc.   
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 07/09/2018 11:24:44
The waters of the Bay of Cadiz rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the Bay of Cadiz.
A similar pattern of tides and tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.

https://goo.gl/images/xQtQ7k
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кадисский_залив
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_current
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 07/09/2018 15:05:46
The amplitude of the tides in the Bay of Cadiz depends on the strength of the eastern winds, in the north of the Gulf of Cadiz, the floods of the rivers, Guadalquivir, Guadiana, Odiel, Tinto and Guadal.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 07/09/2018 16:20:27
The winds are funnelled by the equatorial play.


I agree.


Yet some would argue all this feeds back, namely a greater condensation on the equatorial region creating greater rains and thus more wind activity "on" the equatorial rim "outwards".


Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 07/09/2018 18:55:55
Why do you think this is a problem?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: rmolnav on 07/09/2018 19:05:34
The waters of the Bay of Cadiz rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the Bay of Cadiz.
You may be right, but still you can check that in a few days (4 or 5) both at Cadiz and Huelva will have spring tides (full moon on the 10th), app. 2.5 hours after noon and midnight (because of the previously mentioned gaps), and with only some 5 min. difference ...
Moon (especially) and sun locations in our skies clearly are the paramount cause of tides ... 
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 07/09/2018 20:01:09
Moon (especially) and sun locations in our skies clearly are the paramount cause of tides ... 

The amplitude of the tides in the Bay of Cadiz depends on the strength of the eastern winds, in the north of the Gulf of Cadiz, the floods of the rivers, Guadalquivir, Guadiana, Odiel, Tinto and Guadal.
And the role of the Moon is indirect, creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/09/2018 01:23:00
creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
I think astronomers would have noticed.
Would you like to cite the evidence of this?
Alternatively, would you like to accept that you are simply wrong?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 08/09/2018 03:45:36
creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
I think astronomers would have noticed.
Would you like to cite the evidence of this?
Alternatively, would you like to accept that you are simply wrong?
This question has already been answered, and it was noted as the best answer.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg542160#msg542160
I would like to hear the opinion of rmolnav.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 08/09/2018 06:33:57
creating an uneven orbital velocity of the Earth.
I think astronomers would have noticed.
Would you like to cite the evidence of this?
Alternatively, would you like to accept that you are simply wrong?
This question has already been answered, and it was noted as the best answer.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=73127.msg542160#msg542160
I would like to hear the opinion of rmolnav.

It was only marked as best answer by yourself, no one else believes it.

Your whirlpool theory is seriously flawed and you have yet to provide an answer.

The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool. And the height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the whirlpool of the orbital velocity of the Earth, and the time of the tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
A = V1 • V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
The first problem with this formula is that it does not return an amplitude, it produces a number of square metres per second. That is clearly wrong.

Next problem involves timing:
As is known, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, possess the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.
If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the whirlpools, rotating together with the Earth, turn over twice a day, due to which the whirlpools precess (swing by 1-2 degrees) and reflect the tidal wave around the entire perimeter of the whirlpool.
A rigid gyroscope on earth will indeed align itself to the sidereal day which is 4mins shorter than the solar day. However, that gives a number of problems for your theory.
Firstly, we know from observation that the main tide period is period is about 12hrs 25mins - half a lunar day - so two tides take 24hrs 50mins which is the average time for the Earth to rotate once relative to the Moon. This is a hugh difference from your difference of 4mins in 24hrs making your double tide period 23hrs 56mins.  Clearly your predictions can never work with this theory.

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 08/09/2018 07:46:03
The waters of the Bay of Cadiz rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the Bay of Cadiz.
You may be right
Do not be afraid to express your thoughts boldly, you are on the right track.
The amplitude of the tides in the Bay of Cadiz depends on the flow velocity in the north of the gulf, and the speed of the current depends on the wind speed.
During long-term western winds in the north of the Bay of Cádiz, the current velocity is significantly reduced, and tides may be absent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_current
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: The Spoon on 08/09/2018 10:53:18
he speed of the current depends on the wind speed
Wrong, we have charts that predicts both the direction and speed of currents in specific locations at specific states of tides. If currents were wind dependent, this would not be possible.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 08/09/2018 21:02:13
The waters of the Bay of Mont Saint-Michel rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the Bay of Mont Saint-Michel.
A similar pattern of tides and tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont-Saint-Michel_Bay
https:/.../ecobio.univ-rennes1.fr/eurossam/final%20report/task13a.htm#4.1.5
https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_current
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/09/2018 21:47:27
Essentially all the tide tables show that the interval  between high tides corresponds to the time it takes for the moon to be "in the same place" in the sky.

How do you explain that  unless the tides are (mainly) driven by the moon?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 07:08:01
Essentially all the tide tables show that the interval  between high tides corresponds to the time it takes for the moon to be "in the same place" in the sky.

How do you explain that  unless the tides are (mainly) driven by the moon?
"Tidal hump" is under the moon in accordance with the static theory of Newton's tides, when a tidal wave moves from east to west at a speed of 1,650 km/h.
http://artofwayfinding.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-static-theory-of-tides.html?m=1
And according to the dynamic theory of the Laplace tides, the "tidal hump" is not tied to the Moon due to the lag of the tidal hump due to the friction of the water with the ocean floor.
Read again, the dynamic theory of tides
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 09:13:27
Essentially all the tide tables show that the interval  between high tides corresponds to the time it takes for the moon to be "in the same place" in the sky.

How do you explain that  unless the tides are (mainly) driven by the moon?
"Tidal hump" is under the moon in accordance with the static theory of Newton's tides, when a tidal wave moves from east to west at a speed of 1,650 km/h.
http://artofwayfinding.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-static-theory-of-tides.html?m=1
And according to the dynamic theory of the Laplace tides, the "tidal hump" is not tied to the Moon due to the lag of the tidal hump due to the friction of the water with the ocean floor.
Read again, the dynamic theory of tides
http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm

OK.
And in reality the tides arrive twice a day, at intervals of 12 hours and 25 minutes.

So, which "theory" is right?
The one that says that the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 m or the one that says they don't?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 09:35:13
So, which "theory" is right?
The waters of Bristol Bay rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of Bristol Bay.
A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristolsky_Zaliv
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 09:47:08
Here are the tide times for Bristol
https://www.tidetimes.org.uk/port-of-bristol-avonmouth-tide-times
High tides turn up every 12 hrs 25 min
That's because they are driven by the Moon.

If they were driven by something else, why would they stay in phase with the moon?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: rmolnav on 09/09/2018 10:35:29
The waters of Bristol Bay rotate counter-clockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of Bristol Bay.
A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
Sorry, but you are being told to be wrong, and I do agree ... You only consider whirling effects of daily earth spinning (that locally can be important), but main causes of global ocean tides are moon and sun gravitational pull, and inertial effects due to the actual curved trajectory of our planet (inherent centrifugal forces when not rectilinear path).
Almost four months ago (#74 and 78) I said:
"It SURPRISES me (much more now) this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that … kind of playing both football (soccer) and rugby on same field … a disaster !
I already mentioned that fact on #13 (more than 60 more posts since then, only two and a half weeks !!!)
“… as I have repeated this very morning on that linked site, that my arguments have always been about root "main" and general ocean tides. What, mainly due to Earth/Moon dynamics (but also to Sun/Moon dynamics) would happen even without local effects, small or rather big. Resonance in water "oscillation" may produce big effects.
And those tides would happen even if Earth did not spin daily, main cause of "whirlpools", as far as I can understand. I have not delved into the existing lot of local cases, but I´ve seen they are very complex, especially on a very long work of NOAA:
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/publications/Tidal_Analysis_and_Predictions.pdf
Most of the work deals about the huge variety of local costal tides, but it also has an interesting part analyzing root Moon and Sun related causes of tides.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 11:10:42
It annoys me.
The one who is not right is angry.
------------------------------------------
The waters of the Hudson Bay rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge whirlpool-gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects a tidal wave along the entire perimeter of the Hudson Bay.
A similar pattern of tides is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.
https://goo.gl/images/ApK1hr
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 09/09/2018 12:41:01
The clear feature of the video is the "pulsing" nature of red (high tide) on both sides of the planet. Yes there are definite rotations playing out with the tides, contouring to the geography of the tides.

The nature of the planet with its body of water and the spin associated considers the general spin of the planet with a greater water mass around the equatorial axis of spin. As the planet has a far greater "mass" than the water alone, the water would be effected similarly closest to the moon in the spin and furthest from the moon in the spin. That's fine, yet some scratch their heads re. the idea of a high tide away from the Moon, on the other side of the planet. Yet, as per the reasoning here, its understandable, yet the "greatest whirlpool needs to be recognised, and that would be the idea of a planet "mass" carrying the water as it spins. Is that a fair observation?

From one great event of space and time, many events are sent, and thus from one great whirlpool, many whirlpools arise.

Its "ballet". Any ballerina or trapeze artists knows that to balance a spin there needs to be a "flywheel", a counterweight. The Earth spins 28 or so times faster than the Moon rotates around it, yet the mass of the moon is relevant as a gravitational effect. That's a part of the gravitational flywheel of earth.

Consider Saturn:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=esraPtFX&id=404BD0161C6AAC14ECDC790A915CB9CF5C20C331&thid=OIP.esraPtFXan9juw8lNiWp2gHaEK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.universetoday.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2016%2f09%2fPIA21046-16.jpg&exph=900&expw=1600&q=saturn&simid=608018014166190596&selectedIndex=4&ajaxhist=0 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=esraPtFX&id=404BD0161C6AAC14ECDC790A915CB9CF5C20C331&thid=OIP.esraPtFXan9juw8lNiWp2gHaEK&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.universetoday.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2016%2f09%2fPIA21046-16.jpg&exph=900&expw=1600&q=saturn&simid=608018014166190596&selectedIndex=4&ajaxhist=0)

A uniform satellite, and almost uniform appearance of lines on the surface.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 13:26:22
The one who is not right is angry.
Sorry to hear that.
Come back when you have calmed down.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 13:52:23
"Lunar tidal current" moving from the Indian Ocean from east to west, crashing into the eastern shore of the island of Madagascar, contrary to expectations creates zero tides. And the abnormally high tidal wave for some reason arises between the island of Madagascar and the eastern coast of Africa. Wikipedia explains this discrepancy by the reflection of waves and by the fact that the Coriolis force is doing its job.
And the real reason for this inconsistency is the giant whirlpool, revolving around the island of Madagascar at a speed of 9 km / h, and precessing the reflecting tidal wave towards the eastern coast of Africa.
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Течение_мыса_Игольного
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Мозамбикское_течение
http:/.../ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/ellie_boyce/tidal%20types%20fig.gif
The amplitude of the tides depends on the size of the current, the speed of the current, the direction of the current, the amount of water under the current.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 14:00:13
"Lunar tidal current" moving from the Indian Ocean from east to west, crashing into the eastern shore of the island of Madagascar, contrary to expectations creates zero tides. And the abnormally high tidal wave for some reason arises between the island of Madagascar and the eastern coast of Africa. Wikipedia explains this discrepancy by the reflection of waves and by the fact that the Coriolis force is doing its job.
And the real reason for this inconsistency is the giant whirlpool, revolving around the island of Madagascar at a speed of 9 km / h, and precessing the reflecting tidal wave towards the eastern coast of Africa.
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Течение_мыса_Игольного
https:/.../ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Мозамбикское_течение
http:/.../ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/ellie_boyce/tidal%20types%20fig.gif
The amplitude of the tides depends on the size of the current, the speed of the current, the direction of the current, the amount of water under the current.
Quoting yourself doesn't make you right.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 09/09/2018 14:03:02
That's a perfect example of the E>W current, how the world spins, the tow the mantle creates on the water.


Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 16:02:52
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 16:14:26
That's pretty.
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 09/09/2018 16:53:16
One of the problems with trying to discuss things with you is that you misinterpret very basic concepts and try to shoehorn them into your ideas.

And according to the dynamic theory of the Laplace tides, the "tidal hump" is not tied to the Moon due to the lag of the tidal hump due to the friction of the water with the ocean floor.

Even if the tide lags behind the moon it is still tied to the moon’s frequency because that lag is constant - it varies between 90° and 0°.
I suggest you read the link again and try to understand it.

Note also from the link - “Instead of circumnavigating the world, the tide wave is broken up into numerous smaller cells, called amphidromic systems. Within each cell, the tide wave circles around an amphidromic point.”



Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 17:50:35
That's pretty.
It's not a model, it's the Mediterranean.
Write the appropriate comment.
--------------------------------------------
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 18:10:25

That's pretty.

It's not a model, it's the Mediterranean.
Write the appropriate comment.
--------------------------------------------
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0

It's pretty whether it's a model or not.
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 18:36:56

That's pretty.

It's not a model, it's the Mediterranean.
Write the appropriate comment.
--------------------------------------------
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0

It's pretty whether it's a model or not.
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
When the moon hangs over the Atlantic Ocean, a tidal hump is often found somewhere in the Indian or Pacific Ocean, partly this inconsistency can be eliminated with the help of the applied clock, the tools for bringing the lunar theory of tides to real reality.

And, in accordance with the theory of tidal tides, the applied hour and the alternation of high and low tides occur for the following reason.
In the system of coordinates of the solar system, a whirlpool rotating with the Earth around the Earth's axis and in orbit from the sunset zone to the dawn zone overcomes a larger path per unit time than from the dawn to sunset,
At night, the velocity of the whirlpool in the Earth's orbit is 1600 km / h above the speed of the center of the Earth and up to 1600 km / h in the afternoon.
At night, the whirlpool moves toward the orbital motion of the Earth and in the second half of the day against the orbital motion of the Earth.
The reason for this is the rotation of the Earth and the radius of the Earth.
Above, it is easy to verify based on experience with the globe.
As we see, according to the theory of whirlpools of tides, each maelstrom has its own tidal calendar.
"Moon theory of tides," the reason for the alternation of large and small tides (why the amplitude of the tides at night is greater than in the daytime) does not write anything.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 18:40:36

Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: rmolnav on 09/09/2018 18:46:22
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov link=topic=73127.msg553417#msg553417 date=1536487842
Quote from: rmolnav on Today at 10:35:29
It annoys me.
The one who is not right is angry. [/quote
Quote from: rmolnav on Today at 10:35:29
It annoys me.
The one who is not right is angry.
Not even in my wildest dreams could I have imagined somebody, let alone the OP of a "thenakedscientists" thread, were going to change my words, simulating it is a quote, therefore literally what I had said ...
Actual quote:
It SURPRISES me (much more now) this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/09/2018 19:07:06
Quote from: Yusup Hizirov link=topic=73127.msg553417#msg553417 date=1536487842
Quote from: rmolnav on Today at 10:35:29
It annoys me.
The one who is not right is angry. [/quote
Quote from: rmolnav on Today at 10:35:29
It annoys me.
The one who is not right is angry.
Not even in my wildest dreams could I have imagined somebody, let alone the OP of a "thenakedscientists" thread, were going to change my words, simulating it is a quote, therefore literally what I had said ...
Actual quote:
It SURPRISES me (much more now) this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that
It irritates me (much more now) this theme continues. Two different phenomena are discussed and often mixed because of this
---------------------------------------
I do not use these methods, and it will not help me.
This is a technical translation error, I apologize for this.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 09/09/2018 19:49:45
OK, learn to use the quote function then...
can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: rmolnav on 10/09/2018 07:00:45
Quote from: rmolnav on Yesterday at 10:35:29
It SURPRISES me (much more now) this thread carries on. Two different phenomena are being discussed, and frequently mixed up due to that …
It irritates me (much more now) this theme continues. Two different phenomena are discussed and often mixed because of this
---------------------------------------
I do not use these methods, and it will not help me.
This is a technical translation error, I apologize for this.
Again, I can´t understand your explanation, and you are changing my words again, particularly saying "irritates" instead of "SURPRISES" ...
Time ago I didn´t know how to use the function "quote", and I used to copy and paste paragraphs ... And even that way words can´t change !!
Sorry ... Now I have remember that perhaps you was the one who posted some links, even some paragraphs, in Russian or another similar language ...
If with some translation tool you are translating twice (in opposite senses), please kindly check that what you post as selected quote has not been altered by the application ...
In any case, it would be better not to use that double translation when are just quoting !!

 
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 10/09/2018 10:29:10
Not even in my wildest dreams could I have imagined somebody, let alone the OP
And I thought so, and was surprised.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 10/09/2018 10:49:08

That's pretty.

It's not a model, it's the Mediterranean.
Write the appropriate comment.
--------------------------------------------
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0

It's pretty whether it's a model or not.
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
When the moon hangs over the Atlantic Ocean, a tidal hump is often found somewhere in the Indian or Pacific Ocean, partly this inconsistency can be eliminated with the help of the applied clock, the tools for bringing the lunar theory of tides to real reality.

And, in accordance with the theory of tidal tides, the applied hour and the alternation of high and low tides occur for the following reason.
In the system of coordinates of the solar system, a whirlpool rotating with the Earth around the Earth's axis and in orbit from the sunset zone to the dawn zone overcomes a larger path per unit time than from the dawn to sunset,
At night, the velocity of the whirlpool in the Earth's orbit is 1600 km / h above the speed of the center of the Earth and up to 1600 km / h in the afternoon.
At night, the whirlpool moves toward the orbital motion of the Earth and in the second half of the day against the orbital motion of the Earth.
The reason for this is the rotation of the Earth and the radius of the Earth.
Above, it is easy to verify based on experience with the globe.
As we see, according to the theory of whirlpools of tides, each maelstrom has its own tidal calendar.
"Moon theory of tides," the reason for the alternation of large and small tides (why the amplitude of the tides at night is greater than in the daytime) does not write anything.


Yusup, I think I understand the problem here.


The problem is one of "initial conditions", "initial causes", leading to effects; "cause and effect".

There is no doubt there is a gravitational effect betwen the moon and the earth. If the earth were a perfect sphere with a uniform body of water, there would be a "perfect" tidal demonstration would there not?

Yet the world is not a perfect sphere with 100% water coverage, hence there are other factors at play effecting tidal activity with the earth we have.

Correct me if I am wrong forum members, but Yusup is coming across as saying that "those other factors" endemic to the Earth's condition (land mass shapes and so on) are the "primary" reason for the shape of the tides we see.

"That" may be true though, its a matter of perspective. Sure, using a fine tooth comb, the fine tooth comb of tides is more related to the earth and its landscape as opposed to a perfect sphere surrounded by water effected by the tides, so on that count Yusup is correct.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 10/09/2018 13:44:00
Correct me if I am wrong forum members, but Yusup is coming across as saying that "those other factors" endemic to the Earth's condition (land mass shapes and so on) are the "primary" reason for the shape of the tides we see.
No, we are saying that the land mass shapes combined with effect of sun+moon gravity are responsible for the tides.
The OP denies that sun+moon are part of equation and believes that wind blown circulating currents precess with earth’s rotation to produce the tides.

His hypothesis gives incorrect results but he refuses to address this issue. There seems little value in pursuing this discussion any further until he addresses these problems.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 10/09/2018 13:51:45
Correct me if I am wrong forum members, but Yusup is coming across as saying that "those other factors" endemic to the Earth's condition (land mass shapes and so on) are the "primary" reason for the shape of the tides we see.
No, we are saying that the land mass shapes combined with effect of sun+moon gravity are responsible for the tides.
The OP denies that sun+moon are part of equation and believes that wind blown circulating currents precess with earth’s rotation to produce the tides.

His hypothesis gives incorrect results but he refuses to address this issue. There seems little value in pursuing this discussion any further until he addresses these problems.

Hmmm. Ok.

I know how you've read the argument. Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff. He's asking the question of tides with the aim of presenting "local" tidal sources, not basic earth-moon dynamic.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 10/09/2018 14:28:13
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
Admit that you can not guess this mystery of nature.
Relying on the lunar theory of tides.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 10/09/2018 15:23:31
Admit that you can not guess this mystery of nature.
there is no need to guess, it's not a mystery unless you subscribe to your hypothesis, and no one but you thinks it is a secret of nature.

However, we will happily leave you to your misunderstandings.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 10/09/2018 15:31:03
Yusuf has made it clear to me about the reality of the seasonal variation of tides owing to the seasonal axial shift of the planet.....that's not something earth-moon tide theory thinks about......if of course science can pick this up, as it should.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: rmolnav on 10/09/2018 17:59:10
Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff. He's asking the question of tides with the aim of presenting "local" tidal sources, not basic earth-moon dynamic.
Well, Dr. Bruce Parker, author of the more than 300 pages book linked below, spent most of his career in NOAA and much of his time working on tide related problems as a specialty even while tackling jobs with a much broader scope. Positions he held at NOAA included: Chief Scientist of the National Ocean Service; Director of the Coast Survey Development Laboratory; Director of the World Data Center for Oceanography; Principal Investigator for the NOAA Global Sea Level Program; and head of the U.S. national tides and currents program (in a earlier organizational form before it became CO-OPS).
Among his awards are the NOAA Bronze Medal, the Department of Commerce Silver and Gold Medals, and the Commodore Cooper Medal from the International Hydrographic Organization.
Dr. Parker is presently a Visiting Professor at the Center for Maritime Systems at the Stevens Institute of Technology.
 Dr. Parker has written many papers on tidal subjects, some of which are included in the References section of this book, as well as many tidal analysis programs, some still being used in some form in CO-OPS.
He also had the privilege of organizing the program for the International Conference On Tidal Hydrodynamics in 1988 and editing the book that resulted.
Dr. Parker received his Ph.D. in physical oceanography from The Johns Hopkins University, and prior to that an M.S. in physical oceanography from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and a B.S./B.A.in biology and physics from Brown University ...
AND HE DEFINES TIDES AS FOLLOWS:
"Tides are the periodic motion of the waters of the sea caused by the changing gravitational effects of the moon and the sun as they change position relative to the rotating Earth ... The tides in the oceans are actually very long waves hundreds or thousands of miles long. Although produced by astronomical forces, their behavior in the oceans and connected bays (and the size of the resulting water level oscillations) is determined by hydrodynamics, that is, by the physics of the water movement. To fully understand and predict the tides one must understand both its astronomical forcing and the hydrodynamics of the oceans, bays, and rivers."
And more specifically:
"At the center of the Earth there is a balance between gravitational attraction (trying to pull the Earth and moon together) and centrifugal force (trying to push the Earth and moon apart as they revolve around that common point).
At a location on the Earth’s surface closest to the moon, the gravitational attraction of the moon is greater than the centrifugal force of the Earth (moving around the center of the revolving Earth-moon system).
On the opposite side of the Earth, facing away from the moon, the centrifugal force is greater than the moon’s gravitational attraction. In a hypothetical ocean covering the whole Earth with no continents (see Figure 2.8) there will be two tidal bulges resulting from these imbalances of gravitational and centrifugal forces, one facing the moon (where the gravitational force is greater than the centrifugal force), and one facing away from the moon (where the centrifugal force is greater than the gravitational force).
Logically, he also analysis thoroughly local effects of tides all over the world ...
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/publications/Tidal_Analysis_and_Predictions.pdf

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 10/09/2018 20:30:23
I know how you've read the argument. Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff.
That's not what I'm thinking.
Yusuf has made it clear to me about the reality of the seasonal variation of tides owing to the seasonal axial shift of the planet.
Have you heard of the conservation of angular momentum?
The axis of the planet Earth pretty much points at the pole star all year round.
I can't be sure about the planet you are on.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 10/09/2018 22:45:09
Yusuf has made it clear to me about the reality of the seasonal variation of tides owing to the seasonal axial shift of the planet.....that's not something earth-moon tide theory thinks about......if of course science can pick this up, as it should.
What makes you think ‘science’ has not picked this up?
You are right that the earth-moon theory does not explain this, but the reason is that (as we have said repeatedly in these threads) there is another player, the sun. The earth’s axial tilt does not change as it orbits the sun, but the sun’s declination does change and as well as affecting the seasons it also affects the tides during those season, but - and this is important - it is due to gravitational forces not some mythical whirlpool/precession idea as is stated by the OP.

I know how you've read the argument. Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff.
I agree with @Bored chemist  - folie à deux
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 10/09/2018 22:55:40
Yusuf has made it clear to me about the reality of the seasonal variation of tides owing to the seasonal axial shift of the planet.....that's not something earth-moon tide theory thinks about......if of course science can pick this up, as it should.
What makes you think ‘science’ has not picked this up?
You are right that the earth-moon theory does not explain this, but the reason is that (as we have said repeatedly in these threads) there is another player, the sun. The earth’s axial tilt does not change as it orbits the sun, but the sun’s declination does change and as well as affecting the seasons it also affects the tides during those season, but - and this is important - it is due to gravitational forces not some mythical whirlpool/precession idea as is stated by the OP.

I know how you've read the argument. Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff.
I agree with @Bored chemist  - folie à deux


Wo, give me time to respond to this, it deserves pointed criticism.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 11/09/2018 10:41:07
Wo, give me time to respond to this, it deserves pointed criticism.
before you do, you might take the trouble to find out exactly what science does take into account when calculating tides - it's obvious it will surprise you, the list is a long one.

If Yusuf had produced ideas which accurately predict tides everyone would be interested in his ideas, but they don't. They predict an amplitude in square meters/second and a periodicity of less than 24hrs. Add to this his misunderstanding of the difference in behaviour of a rigid gyroscope and a liquid one, and his confusion of waves and currents, and we would be interested to see your defence of his model.

I have no doubt as to Yusuf's intelligence and his hard work and dedication to his model, but it has to align with reality.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 11/09/2018 12:18:11
If Yusuf had produced ideas which accurately predict tides everyone would be interested in his ideas, but they don't.
This is for the following reason.
1. Due to my inexperience, because I did not work in scientific organizations (I'm a farmer).
2. In scientific organizations, there are very few enthusiasts and patriots of science and many are capable, only to solve crossword puzzles.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Thebox on 11/09/2018 13:44:00
If Yusuf had produced ideas which accurately predict tides everyone would be interested in his ideas, but they don't.
This is for the following reason.
1. Due to my inexperience, because I did not work in scientific organizations (I'm a farmer).
2. In scientific organizations, there are very few enthusiasts and patriots of science and many are capable, only to solve crossword puzzles.

OUCH!  That one must really ''bite'' the scientist readers, hard to argue that , I may look you up Yusup to see what you got!

 ;) ;)

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 11/09/2018 16:32:07
but it has to align with reality.
If you do not recognize the theory of tides then you have to disprove the theory of dead zones, and this is not possible to do, it is too simple and understandable.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74483.0
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 11/09/2018 18:22:36
This is for the following reason.
1. Due to my inexperience, because I did not work in scientific organizations (I'm a farmer).
There is no problem with this, no one is expected to know everything and there are plenty of opportunities to learn. People here are willing to help.
I have a great deal of respect for farmers, my cousin owns a dairy farm and we have some very interesting conversations about the science of farming.
I have no doubt that you are very intelligent - in fact you wouldn’t have had much attention if we thought you a fool - however, your ideas won’t progress if you don’t take on board the areas where your ideas fail to make sense.

If you do not recognize the theory of tides then you have to disprove the theory of dead zones, and this is not possible to do, it is too simple and understandable.
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74483.0
I do recognise the theory of tides and I understand the theory of dead zones so I have no interest in disproving either, however, your ideas have nothing to do with either of these.

If you had come with an idea that circulating currents and precession contribute to the total tidal effect, then I could have shown you a way of analysing that; but to claim that those currents are solely responsible for tides has not stood up to analysis.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 11/09/2018 18:43:53
YH [Starts topic ] Tides are caused by whale farts!

Someone posts "nope, it's the Sun + moon- there's a WIKI page here"

YH "It's whale farts- here's a picture of a whale farting"

Someone posts "Nobody said they don't fart, it's just that's not what causes the tides"

YH [marks his own post as "best"]

YH "See!- I must be right- my idea has been marked as the best answer"
Most people leave because they can't be bothered with this sort of dross

Someone posts"Do you realise that agreeing with yourself proves nothing?"
YH "But it's the best answer".
 YH [Sets up poll] And I marvelous, / wonderful / God/ a twit?
Someone posts " Science is not a popularity constest".
"Twit" gets highest poll result.
YH- never mind the poll it's still whale farts that cause the tides.

Someone posts "How come the tides are synchronised to the moon?
YH- "Look an animation of a whale farting, and a report in Russian saying that whales get indigestion if they eat beans"

Someone posts "yes, but that doesn't prove anythign about tides.
Why do tides turn every 12 hrs 25 min?

YH "Here's some more stuff about whales"

and so on...
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 11/09/2018 19:24:51
I understand the theory of dead zones
You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 11/09/2018 19:29:46
You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.
You have muddled those two ideas up.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Kryptid on 11/09/2018 21:27:33
YH [Starts topic ] Tides are caused by whale farts!

Someone posts "nope, it's the Sun + moon- there's a WIKI page here"

YH "It's whale farts- here's a picture of a whale farting"

Someone posts "Nobody said they don't fart, it's just that's not what causes the tides"

YH [marks his own post as "best"]

YH "See!- I must be right- my idea has been marked as the best answer"
Most people leave because they can't be bothered with this sort of dross

Someone posts"Do you realise that agreeing with yourself proves nothing?"
YH "But it's the best answer".
 YH [Sets up poll] And I marvelous, / wonderful / God/ a twit?
Someone posts " Science is not a popularity constest".
"Twit" gets highest poll result.
YH- never mind the poll it's still whale farts that cause the tides.

Someone posts "How come the tides are synchronised to the moon?
YH- "Look an animation of a whale farting, and a report in Russian saying that whales get indigestion if they eat beans"

Someone posts "yes, but that doesn't prove anythign about tides.
Why do tides turn every 12 hrs 25 min?

YH "Here's some more stuff about whales"

and so on...


A perfect summary of what these threads have been like.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Thebox on 11/09/2018 21:49:13
Not even in my wildest dreams could I have imagined somebody, let alone the OP
And I thought so, and was surprised.
If you can answer me this question I will look over the entire thread and take you serious.

If science is wrong about the tides , then how can science predict the times etc of the tide coming in and going out for shipping and fishermen ?

It does seem they know how the tides work , where your notions at a glance would have random tidal times ?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/09/2018 02:37:41
You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.
You have muddled those two ideas up.
What I confuse.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/09/2018 07:49:19
You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.
You have muddled those two ideas up.
What I confuse.
you are confused; you think  that Colin knows there are dead zones but only you understand them.
In fact Colin understands them and you only know that they exist.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/09/2018 07:50:11
A perfect summary of what these threads have been like.
Thanks
That was more or less my plan.
I wonder how long it will take YH to explain what's wrong with it.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/09/2018 08:03:08
You know that there are dead zones, and I know the reason for the formation of dead zones, and these are different things.
You have muddled those two ideas up.
What I confuse.
you are confused; you think  that Colin knows there are dead zones but only you understand them.
In fact Colin understands them and you only know that they exist.
This is not an answer!
The question asked Colin, let Colin answer, that he has fewer brains.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 12/09/2018 08:54:23
Yusuf has made it clear to me about the reality of the seasonal variation of tides owing to the seasonal axial shift of the planet.....that's not something earth-moon tide theory thinks about......if of course science can pick this up, as it should.
What makes you think ‘science’ has not picked this up?
You are right that the earth-moon theory does not explain this, but the reason is that (as we have said repeatedly in these threads) there is another player, the sun. The earth’s axial tilt does not change as it orbits the sun, but the sun’s declination does change and as well as affecting the seasons it also affects the tides during those season, but - and this is important - it is due to gravitational forces not some mythical whirlpool/precession idea as is stated by the OP.

I know how you've read the argument. Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff.
I agree with @Bored chemist  - folie à deux

Yes, the Earth has fixed precession, yet as this happens around the sun the way it does, we have the seasons, the sun "and moon" being more equatorial at times (twice a year). The point I registered from Yusuf was that such a change in the alignment of the sun-moon as the seasons gives rise to different tidal dynamics in different oceans based on the different relative geographies during these seasons. I can see it quite clearly how that works.

I have mentioned to Yusuf, and even apologised to him for doing so, that the moon is a primary feature of the tides, and gave many examples for that, "yet" I did acknowledge how he could conceives of a smaller scale whirlpool model of tides "provided" it included the effect of the Moon.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/09/2018 12:48:36
I have mentioned to Yusuf, and even apologised to him for doing so, that the moon is a primary feature of the tides
It does not seem strange to you that a farmer from the province finds errors in celestial mechanics, and celestial mechanics is considered the most studied branch of science (celestial mechanics studies visible objects).
And what happens in other branches of science, especially in the microcosm and the macrocosm where it is difficult to verify the theory.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/09/2018 19:08:11
It does not seem strange to you that a farmer from the province finds errors in celestial mechanics,
Is that a reference to Isaac Newton?
This is not an answer!
Yes it is.

The question asked Colin, let Colin answer,
It won't matter who answers. How could it make a difference if it is me who posts the truth or if it is Colin who posts the truth (or anyone else)?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/09/2018 20:57:50
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
Please show the trajectory of the tidal wave, from the Strait of Gibraltar to the Gulf of Gabes. Show the amphidromic point.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 12/09/2018 21:03:50
let Colin answer, that he has fewer brains.
Well, if that’s how you feel I’m happy to leave you to your own company.
It really doesn’t bother me what you post as no one will take it seriously.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 12/09/2018 21:05:29
I did acknowledge how he could conceives of a smaller scale whirlpool model of tides "provided" it included the effect of the Moon.
This is one aspect of his posts which would be interesting to investigate - what would be the magnitude of the contribution.
As you are aware a rigid gyroscope is very different from a circulating current. A rigid gyroscope would indeed turn over because it is balanced. A circulating current can’t do that, it has to constantly respond to the restoring forces of gravity and the tendency of water to find a equilibrium level, so it will find a constant displacement. Also a current can’t precess because it can’t transfer torque to the other particles.
Have a go, it would be interesting to see what you come up with.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/09/2018 21:07:28
Show the amphidromic point.
Why do you assume there is one?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/09/2018 21:12:22
Please show the trajectory of the tidal wave, from the Strait of Gibraltar to the Gulf of Gabes
Something like this?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/09/2018 10:52:42
I did acknowledge how he could conceives of a smaller scale whirlpool model of tides "provided" it included the effect of the Moon.
This is one aspect of his posts which would be interesting to investigate - what would be the magnitude of the contribution.
As you are aware a rigid gyroscope is very different from a circulating current. A rigid gyroscope would indeed turn over because it is balanced. A circulating current can’t do that, it has to constantly respond to the restoring forces of gravity and the tendency of water to find a equilibrium level, so it will find a constant displacement. Also a current can’t precess because it can’t transfer torque to the other particles.
Have a go, it would be interesting to see what you come up with.
https://youtu.be/ZEhm_ONTQKc Block diagram of a tidal wave along the perimeter of the vortex water in the Atlantic plateau.

Precision of the gyro http://goo.gl/cxlGU3
Video - "Flexible Drive Video "tipping gyro" http://goo.gl/1eJyfs
Video "Experience with gyroscope" (drift of whirlpools) ------------------------------------------------
For reference: a gyro is a device that, due to rotation, reacts differently to external forces than to a stationary object. The simplest gyro is yula. By distributing yule on a horizontal surface and tilting the surface, you'll notice that yule keeps horizontal torsion.

Precession deviation of the axis of rotation under the influence of external forces. It is very easy to observe the precession. You need to start the top and wait until it starts to slow down. Initially, the axis of rotation of the vertex is vertical. Then its upper point gradually descends and moves along a diverging spiral. This is the precession of the axis of the top.

When measuring the Earth's rotation speed, exactly the same effect was noted, only on very small scales - a very small but significant deviation of the rotation axis of the huge Foucault gyro was observed. Since the whirlpools are several kilometers larger and heavier than the experimental Foucault gyroscope, there are many more - in particular, tides.

To check the vortex hypothesis, I fixed the fan on the globe where the whirlpool is located, I inserted the metal balls onto the springs instead of the blades, turned on the fan (whirlpool), rotating the globe around the axis and around the Sun, and got a simulated low tide and a stream. ,

The attractiveness of the theory of the whirlpool lies in the fact that it is convincingly verified by the whirlpool fixed on the globe.
The sensitivity of the gyro-vortex to the increase and oscillation of the Earth's orbital velocity is so great that the globe must rotate and move in orbit extremely slowly (one revolution in 5 minutes).

If the gyro-vortex is installed on the globe at the mouth of the Amazon River, then no doubt it will show the exact mechanics and calendar of the tides of the Amazon River.
When the globe rotates only around the axis, the gyro-vortex tilts to one side and stands still, and if the globe moves and rotates, the gyroscope-vortex begins to oscillate (precess) and gives two tides a day.

If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the whirlpools that are at midnight and the midday side of the Earth are more active, as they are, in the zone of relative movement. And when the whirlpool enters the sunset and the dawn zone and becomes the edge to the Sun, it subsides.
If in the sea the current moves north or south, the Coriolis force presses water to the shores of the sea, and if the current moves to the west or east, then the current pressure to the bottom of the sea or up (precession), this creates tides.
In the Bay of Fundy, the tides create a stream in the north of the Gulf of Maine, which moves against the rotation of the Earth.
http://www.gulfofmaine-census.org/wp-conte...lation/fig4.jpg
The experience with the globe is more convincing than the theoretical description of the theory.

Doubts in the presence of precession in the whirlpools due to slow rotation are eliminated with a high rate of tipping the whirlpools for 12 hours. (In order to overturn a whirlpool, a hoop, an annular plate, they must be rotated 180 degrees).
While the Earth is making one revolution around its axis, the whirlpool turns twice, during this time the tidal wave succeeds in order to bypass the perimeter of the White Sea twice.
If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the waters of the White Sea will rotate counterclockwise on the south side of the Earth, and on the midnight side of the Earth the waters of the White Sea will rotate clockwise.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 13/09/2018 10:59:12
What's the game-plan of your knowledge and knowledge-sharing?

Convincing someone of a science can produce a type of technology that only goes so far. How is your knowledge helping humanity despite the current criticism?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/09/2018 11:26:43
What's the game-plan of your knowledge and knowledge-sharing?

Convincing someone of a science can produce a type of technology that only goes so far. How is your knowledge helping humanity despite the current criticism?
Thanks to the presented theory, the accuracy of the weather forecast will be brought to 90 percent, and at sea 99 percent (waves of the killer).
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 13/09/2018 11:46:34
Have you done forecasts? Accurately?

What's happening next week, tomorrow?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/09/2018 18:11:34
Have you done forecasts? Accurately?

What's happening next week, tomorrow?
The weather forecast is provided by several dozen institutions based on weather data.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/09/2018 19:55:36
What's the game-plan of your knowledge and knowledge-sharing?
It seems that his game plan is  to steadfastly avoid acquiring knowledge and to share his ignorance as widely as he can.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/09/2018 20:28:16
The properties of the horoscope are the missing link in the weather forecast.
The horoscope is nonsense
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horoscope
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/09/2018 20:37:44
The discovery that whirlpools, cyclones and anticyclones possess the properties of a gyroscope - the missing link in the weather forecast.
This is a revolution in science.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/09/2018 22:01:05
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
Please show the trajectory of the tidal wave, from the Strait of Gibraltar to the Gulf of Gabes. Show the amphidromic point.
The comment that you wrote does not refute the twisting theory of tides, but confirms this.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/09/2018 19:14:54
The waters of the Mediterranean rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge hydromassage gyroscope, which, precessing, reflects tidal waves around the perimeter of the Mediterranean Sea.
But in Gabes Bay, off the coast of Tunisia, the height of the tides reaches three meters, and sometimes more, and this is considered one of the secrets of nature. But at the same time in the Gulf of Gabes the vortex water turns, precessing the reflecting additional tidal wave.

https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Gabès
https: /.../ youtu.be/FDht0vDmqdc
https: /.../ youtu.be/wlvkrRdYNZ0
Please show the trajectory of the tidal wave, from the Strait of Gibraltar to the Gulf of Gabes. Show the amphidromic point.
The comment that you wrote does not refute the twisting theory of tides, but confirms this.
As far as I can tell, you are still blaming whale farts.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 09:52:34
YH [Starts topic ] Tides are caused by whale farts!

Someone posts "nope, it's the Sun + moon- there's a WIKI page here"

YH "It's whale farts- here's a picture of a whale farting"

Someone posts "Nobody said they don't fart, it's just that's not what causes the tides"

YH [marks his own post as "best"]

YH "See!- I must be right- my idea has been marked as the best answer"
Most people leave because they can't be bothered with this sort of dross

Someone posts"Do you realise that agreeing with yourself proves nothing?"
YH "But it's the best answer".
 YH [Sets up poll] And I marvelous, / wonderful / God/ a twit?
Someone posts " Science is not a popularity constest".
"Twit" gets highest poll result.
YH- never mind the poll it's still whale farts that cause the tides.

Someone posts "How come the tides are synchronised to the moon?
YH- "Look an animation of a whale farting, and a report in Russian saying that whales get indigestion if they eat beans"

Someone posts "yes, but that doesn't prove anythign about tides.
Why do tides turn every 12 hrs 25 min?

YH "Here's some more stuff about whales"

and so on...
Whale theory of tides can claim the truth along with the lunar theory of tides.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 10:05:41
Whale theory of tides can claim the truth along with the lunar theory of tides.
Only if you can show that whales only fart at the full moon.
Where's your explanation of the synchronisation of the moon to the tides?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 11:00:37
Where's your explanation of the synchronisation of the moon to the tides?
According to the vortex theory of tides, the maximum tides are formed three days after the new moon.
And on other days the tides are not connected with the moon, I wrote about this earlier.
And do not run away from the answer, over the Mediterranean.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 13:25:47
And on other days the tides are not connected with the moon, I wrote about this earlier.
Why do they synchronise with the 12 hr 25 minute passage of the moon then?
And do not run away from the answer, over the Mediterranean.
Are you talking to yourself there?
Every time I post an answer, you run away from it saying "That's not an answer", but you don't say why.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 16:09:59
According to the static theory of Newton's tides,
Every 12 hours and 25 minutes there should be tides (according to the lunar calendar, simultaneously at the same latitude).
The static theory of the tide was abandoned in favor of the dynamic theory of Laplace, allowing a lag (up to 800 km / h) and twists of the tidal hump due to friction on the ocean floor. And to show the magnitude of the backwardness of the hump, the applied hours (from 0 to 12) were introduced.
----------------------------------------
Lunar day is the time interval between two moonrises, which is 24 hours and 48 minutes.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 16:25:44
Every 12 hours and 25 minutes there should be tides (according to the lunar calendar, simultaneously at the same latitude).
Nope- it doesn't say anything about the effect of latitude on time because there are other effects.
However the interval between high tides should be about 12 hrs 25 min, no matter where.

So, for example, In London the high tides today are separated by 12 hrs 19 min.
And the same goes for Cape town (roughly the same time and the same longitude)
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Cape-Town-South-Africa/tides/latest
Or Portugal
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Lagoa/tides/latest
Or across the pond in the US
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Crescent-Harbor-Washington/tides/latest

They all show the same thing.
A cyclic variation peaking every 12 hrs 20 min or so.

So, what is forcing them all to synchronise with the moon?


Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 16:38:49
The tide tables are collected in accordance with the solar calendar, and not the lunar calendar.
You have all mixed up.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 17:03:32
The tide tables are collected in accordance with the solar calendar, and not the lunar calendar.
You have all mixed up.
"My" tide tables work.
And they all say there's a high tide about every 12 hrs 25 min.
How do you explain that if it is not because they are not being driven by the same thing?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 18:08:42
The tide tables are compiled according to the solar calendar and not to the lunar calendar.
You have all mixed up.
---------------------------------------------
The universal lag of the tides, lagging behind the movement of the Moon, the size of which sometimes reaches 10 to 12 hours, required the introduction of a so-called "port application time" for each seaport, reflecting in hours and minutes the "full water" delay relative to the culmination of the moon.
https://astronomy.ru/forum/index.php/topic,81717.0.html
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 18:12:29
The tide tables are compiled according to the solar calendar and not to the lunar calendar.
You have all mixed up.
---------------------------------------------
The universal lag of the tides, lagging behind the movement of the Moon, the size of which sometimes reaches 10 to 12 hours, required the introduction of a so-called "port application time" for each seaport, reflecting in hours and minutes the "full water" delay relative to the culmination of the moon.
https://astronomy.ru/forum/index.php/topic,81717.0.html

You keep on refusing to answer the question.
And they all say there's a high tide about every 12 hrs 25 min.
How do you explain that if it is not because they are not being driven by the same thing?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 18:19:57
Do you understand the problem?
Wherever you are in the world, if  you go down to the sea and watch you will see the water rise and fall.
And the interval between successive peaks (or troughs) is the same - about 12 hrs 25 min.
No matter what the latitude or longitude.
No matter what sea.
It's the same time  between high tides.

How do you explain that?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 18:24:24
The tides are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth.
The calendar shows the moon, the lag is measured in hours.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 18:38:11
Vortex tides are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth (solar calendar).
Moon tides are synchronized with the movement of the moon (the lunar calendar).
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 18:47:05
The tides are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth.
No, that would give either 12 hours if they matched the Sun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_time

or just under 12 hrs if they track the stars (about two mins under).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_time



Then there's the other point- what mechanism synchronises them?
The only credible answer is gravity.
So, what you are left with is the Moon- because it's the only thing which gets the timing right and the tide being driven by gravity- it's the only force that causes attraction over that range.

Face it; the tides are driven by the Moon, via gravity.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 18:55:57
Vortex tides are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth (solar calendar).
Moon tides are synchronized with the movement of the moon (the lunar calendar).
It seems to be a matter of nomenclature
Real  tides are synchronized with the movement of the moon (the lunar calendar).

Made up tides are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth (solar calendar).

Or, perhaps you can show me the tide tables for the ones you have invented?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 19:31:33
Or, perhaps you can show me the tide tables for the ones you have invented?
To make a calendar of tides, you need to know a lot of data, this is the work of dozens of institutions.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 19:37:44
Or, perhaps you can show me the tide tables for the ones you have invented?
To make a calendar of tides, you need to know a lot of data, this is the work of dozens of institutions.

The tide tables that were generated- on the basis of lunar tides- work.
They don't need to add your nonsense.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 19:51:30
The tidal calendar that you use is not a lunar calendar, but a vortex calendar.
(the tidal hump is not synchronized with the moon)
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 20:09:18
The tidal calendar that you use is not a lunar calendar, but a vortex calendar.
Vortex tides are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth (solar calendar).

How often do I have to say this?
The tide calendars + charts that people use say high tide happens  every 12 hrs 25 min.
That's synchronised with the Moon, but not the Sun
If you were right  then the tides would be every 12 hrs.
They are not.
You are wrong.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 20:15:51
Synchronous movement is when the hump is always under the moon.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 20:16:49
The tidal calendar that you use is not a lunar calendar, but a vortex calendar.
(the tidal hump is not synchronized with the moon)
Удивительно, как я раньше об  этом не догадался. (в споре рождается истина)
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 20:18:07
Synchronous movement is when the hump is always under the moon.
No
You don't understand what the word means because you don't understand that there can be a phase shift.
The tides and the Moon are synchronised- that's why they pop up at the same interval 12 hrs 25 min.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 20:18:33
Удивительно, как я раньше об  этом не догадался. (в споре рождается истина)
Did you somehow think that would help?
If Google is right it means "
It's amazing how I did not know about it before. (in the dispute, truth is born)"
And yet you are refusing to see the truth because you want to dispute.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 20:30:14
Synchronous movement is when the hump is always under the moon.
And for this, the hump must move under the moon from east to west at a speed of 1600 km / h.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 20:31:07
And for this, the hump must move under the moon from east to west at a speed of 1600 km / h.
You say that like it's a problem...
Why?

You still need to explain how the tides arrive when the Moon tells them to.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 20:39:02
Repeat please this question
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 20:51:52
Please, repeat the question
How many times?
Wherever you are in the world, if  you go down to the sea and watch you will see the water rise and fall.
And the interval between successive peaks (or troughs) is the same - about 12 hrs 25 min.
And they all say there's a high tide about every 12 hrs 25 min.
How do you explain that if it is not because they are not being driven by the same thing?
They all show the same thing.
A cyclic variation peaking every 12 hrs 20 min or so.

So, what is forcing them all to synchronise with the moon?
Why do they synchronise with the 12 hr 25 minute passage of the moon then?

High tides turn up every 12 hrs 25 min
That's because they are driven by the Moon.

If they were driven by something else, why would they stay in phase with the moon?
can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?

Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?

That's pretty.
Now, can you explain how the tides arrive every 12 hrs 25 min?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 16/09/2018 21:26:49
Here we have a later point, we will postpone the debate for tomorrow.

Morning is wiser than evening.
Proverb.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/09/2018 21:36:56
You have had the mornings of the 10th, 11th, 12th 13th, 14th,15th and 16th to answer it.
You weren't wise enough to answer it then, and you never will be.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/09/2018 07:20:45
Good morning!
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 17/09/2018 17:44:59
Vortex tides are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth (solar calendar).
If the tides were synchronized with the movement of the Moon, they would be 25 minutes behind the Moon.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/09/2018 19:22:25
If the tides were synchronized with the movement of the Moon, they would be 25 minutes behind the Moon.
Still not true.
I pointed this out earlier.
Synchronous movement is when the hump is always under the moon.
No
You don't understand what the word means because you don't understand that there can be a phase shift.
The tides and the Moon are synchronised- that's why they pop up at the same interval 12 hrs 25 min.

So, why do you think it's true?
There's a roughly constant lag between the Moon being overhead and high tide.
It's perturbed a bit by the Sun.
Why do you imagine the delay should be 25 minutes?

Also, the tides  are pretty nearly fixed.
How do you explain that?

There is nothing else that they agree with better than they agree with the Moon.

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 17/09/2018 22:17:50
The synchronous connection between the moon and the hump is the same as between the hump and the lamp post (next to your house).
Tidal waves are synchronized with the Earth's daily rotation, a 50-minute delay, according to the vortex theory of tides.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunitidal_interval shows the wave lag behind the moon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_clock shows the daily backlog of the wave.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/09/2018 22:22:04
The tides are synchronized with the Earth's daily rotation, and the Earth's rotation follows the solar calendar.

As I have pointed out before, if they were synchronised to the rotation of the Earth they would happen exactly every 12 hours and they do not.

Why do you keep saying they do?
Don't you understand it just makes you look silly?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/09/2018 13:45:43
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunitidal_interval shows the wave lag behind the moon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_clock shows the daily backlog of the wave.
-----
Please note:
Lunitidal interval constants should not be used to estimate the tides for any critical purpose. They are obsolete and do not give tidal predictions which are as accurate as modern tide tables.
https://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Tides/Lunitidal-intervals
------------------------------------------
The magnitude of the lag of the tides in a given locality, compared to the moment of the culmination of the Moon, is called the "applied hour".
In different places "applied hour" is different, because it depends on the features from the bottom and the coast. For example, in Oostende, Belgium, the "applied hour" is 25 minutes on average, in Gibraltar 1 hour 47 minutes, in Brest (France) 3 hours 46 minutes, in some bays of the White Sea 5 hours, etc.
------
And we observe how in every port of the world every 12 hours and 25 minutes the tides regularly flow, after which tides occur. But only during the peak of every second low tide the Moon appears at the point of culmination above the water area of ​​the port.

A person can teach a person to perceive the tides as a process of attraction of the water masses by the Moon, proceeding independently of the position of the moon. But to teach a person not to notice the culmination of the Moon at the peak of every second tide is impossible, since for this it is necessary to deprive not only the ability of independent thinking, but also the ability to see.
https://astronomy.ru/forum/index.php/topic,81717.0.html
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/09/2018 20:19:33
Your link says "Tides are known to be mainly caused by the Moon's gravity."

You are now arguing with yourself...
Let us know when you realise you have lost.
The magnitude of the lag of the tides in a given locality, compared to the moment of the culmination of the Moon, is called the "applied hour".
Only by you.
It's some name you made up to describe something that isn't an hour.

In different places "applied hour" is different, because it depends on the features from the bottom and the coast.

Congratulations, you have worked out what a phase shift is.
The high tide need not be at the same time as the Moon is directly overhead, but there will be a more or less constant delay between the two events.
It takes a while for the water to slosh round.

A person can teach a person to perceive the tides as a process of attraction of the water masses by the Moon,
Or he can convince himself it's due to whales farting.

Eventually, he might realise that the only way that the tide can stay locked to the moon is because the moon drives the tide.

Let us know when you realise it.
But to teach a person not to notice the culmination of the Moon at the peak of every second tide is impossible,
Sorry, that makes no sense.
What do you mean by " culmination of the Moon at the peak of every second tide"
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/09/2018 20:47:50
The synchronous connection between the moon and the hump is the same as between the hump and the lamp post (next to your house).
Tidal waves are synchronized with the Earth's daily rotation, a 50-minute delay, according to the vortex theory of tides.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunitidal_interval shows the wave lag behind the moon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_clock shows the daily backlog of the wave.
You say that a tidal wave lags behind the moon for 25 minutes (50 minutes a day).
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/09/2018 22:04:38
Tidal waves are synchronized with the daily rotation of the Earth and a daily delay of 50 minutes.
The moon is not synchronized with tidal waves.
The synchronous connection between the moon and the hump is the same as between the hump and the lamp post (next to your house).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunitidal_interval shows the wave lag behind the moon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_clock shows the daily backlog of the wave.
You say that a tidal wave lags behind the moon for 25 minutes (50 minutes a day).
No.
I say the tide lags behind the Sun (and other stars) by about 50 minutes a day. That's why it's at a different time each day.

However it lags behind the Moon by a (more or less) constant delay.
Do you understand the difference between a clock that is wrong because it has been set wrong by 25 minutes and a clock that runs fast by 25 minutes a day?
One of them is always 25 minutes wrong, but the other one gets more and more wrong as time passes.

You have cited a page that talks about the "tide clock" and it says "A tide clock is a specially designed clock that keeps track of the Moon's apparent motion around the Earth."

That's because, to tell when the tide is due, you need to pay attention to the Moon.
And that's because the Moon drives the tide.
So, again, you are arguing against yourself.
Both those references say the tides are driven by the Moon.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/09/2018 22:16:06
The synchronous connection between the moon and the hump is the same as between the hump and the lamp post (next to your house).
Tidal waves are synchronized with the Earth's daily rotation, a 50-minute delay, according to the vortex theory of tides.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunitidal_interval shows the wave lag behind the moon.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_clock shows the daily backlog of the wave.
Show me a link or an example that a tidal wave is moving in synchronism with the moon.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/09/2018 22:21:21
Or let the forum participant who lived on the coast and observed the tides, confirmed.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/09/2018 22:27:10
Show me a link or an example that a tidal wave is moving in synchronism with the moon.
I did.
I pointed out high tide times in various places.
And they repeat every 12 hrs 25 min or so- the same as the Moon.

Show me something else that repeats  every 12 hrs 25 min that could be the explanation of the tides if it isn't the Moon.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/09/2018 22:32:37
Or a member of the forum who lived on the coast and watched the tides.
There are web cams  where you can watch for yourself.
https://www.earthcam.com/usa/florida/miamiandthebeaches/?cam=miamibeach1
https://www.dorsetforyou.gov.uk/your-community/webcams/weymouth-esplanade-webcam.aspx
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 19/09/2018 11:13:56
Synchronous movement is when the hump is always under the moon.
No
You don't understand what the word means because you don't understand that there can be a phase shift.
Phase shift is a bust.
If the synchronous hump speed is 1600 km / h, a phase shift of 50 minutes will reduce the speed of the wave to 1200 to 1300 km / h.
From this speed in the ocean should be a thick fog.
------------------------------------------
Show me the link that the tidal wave moves asynchronously with the moon.
Or let the forum participant who lived on the coast and observed the tides, confirmed.
---------
The delay time of the tide (25 minutes) can also depend on the speed of the tidal wave and the distance from the whirlpool to the shore.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 19/09/2018 11:17:54
Bored chemist good morning!
I hope that at night you gained strength, and your messages will be accurate.
Another 5 topics, already a week awaiting your reply.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/09/2018 19:06:36
If the synchronous hump speed is 1600 km / h, a phase shift of 50 minutes will reduce the speed of the wave to 1200 to 1300 km / h.

My (mechanical) watch keeps pretty good time.
The hour hand is about 1 cm long, and it goes round every 12 hours.
So the tip of the hour hand travels about 3.14 cm in 12 hrs.
About 0.26 cm per hour.

If I set it 25 minutes slow, how fast does the tip of the hour hand move?

Setting it 25 min slow is introducing a phase shift of 12.5 degrees.

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/09/2018 19:10:02
Another 5 topics, already a week awaiting your reply.
You are the only person to blame for your gish gallop.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 19/09/2018 19:52:24
If the synchronous hump speed is 1600 km / h, a phase shift of 50 minutes will reduce the speed of the wave to 1200 to 1300 km / h.

My (mechanical) watch keeps pretty good time.
The hour hand is about 1 cm long, and it goes round every 12 hours.
So the tip of the hour hand travels about 3.14 cm in 12 hrs.
About 0.26 cm per hour.

If I set it 25 minutes slow, how fast does the tip of the hour hand move?

Setting it 25 min slow is introducing a phase shift of 12.5 degrees.
In this post, you do not deny anything, but this is a hidden form of recognition of the theory.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/09/2018 20:16:09
If the synchronous hump speed is 1600 km / h, a phase shift of 50 minutes will reduce the speed of the wave to 1200 to 1300 km / h.

My (mechanical) watch keeps pretty good time.
The hour hand is about 1 cm long, and it goes round every 12 hours.
So the tip of the hour hand travels about 3.14 cm in 12 hrs.
About 0.26 cm per hour.

If I set it 25 minutes slow, how fast does the tip of the hour hand move?

Setting it 25 min slow is introducing a phase shift of 12.5 degrees.
In this post, you do not deny anything, but this is a hidden form of recognition of the theory.
Thank you!
Answer the question.
how fast does the tip of the hour hand move?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 19/09/2018 20:54:17
Show me the link that the tidal wave moves asynchronously with the moon.
And if this is your idea, open the topic and we will discuss it together.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/09/2018 21:11:15

Answer the question.
how fast does the tip of the hour hand move?

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/09/2018 21:13:03
In this post, you do not deny anything, but this is a hidden form of recognition of the theory.
Thank you!
No,
I'm setting the scene for explaining why you are wrong.
But I can only explain why you are wrong if you answer the question.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/09/2018 19:02:59

Answer the question.
how fast does the tip of the hour hand move?


Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 20/09/2018 19:55:20
According to Newton's static theory, in one turn of the moon the hump makes one turn.
According to the dynamic theory of Laplace, for two turns of the Moon the hump makes one turn.
But in practice this does not work,
The moon itself, the hump itself.
Look at the tide chart, the time of sunset and moons.
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Fundy-Offshore-1-Nova-Scotia/tides/latest
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/09/2018 20:32:53

Answer the question.
how fast does the tip of the hour hand move?



Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 20/09/2018 20:36:30
According to Newton's static theory, in one turn of the moon the hump makes one turn.
According to the dynamic theory of Laplace, for two turns of the Moon the hump makes one turn.
But in practice this does not work,
The moon itself, the hump itself.
Look at the tide chart, the time of sunset and moons.
https://www.tide-forecast.com/locations/Fundy-Offshore-1-Nova-Scotia/tides/latest
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/09/2018 20:49:49
Look at the tide chart, the time of sunset and moons.
OK
The Sun's a minor effect
Lets look at moonrise and the nearest high tide
17:15   17:58
17:50   18:46
18:22   19:29
18:51   20:10
19:18   20:49
19:45   21:28
20:13   22:05

And, the easiest way to see if there's a relationship between two sets of numbers is to plot them against eachother
So, let's start by converting the times into fractions of a day (because it's easy in Excel)
0.719   0.749
0.743   0.782
0.765   0.812
0.785   0.840
0.804   0.867
0.823   0.894
0.842   0.920

And then plot those pairs of numbers against each other and see what the graph looks like



Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 20/09/2018 20:51:58
For those of you unfamiliar with regression analysis, that number R squared = 0.9998 means that 99.98% of the variation in one parameter can be explained by the variation of the other.
So, either the tides cause the moon to rise, or the moon causes both.

What did you think the data showed?

(some people might spot that another explanation is that both tide and moonrise are driven by the same thing- the rotation of the Earth- but if you plot the high tide times vs "date" you don't get such good correlation. The Moonrise  really is a better predictor of high tide than the rotation of the Earth is.)
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/09/2018 06:48:27
When you find out that you are mistaken, do not forget to thank me.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/09/2018 10:48:03
When you find out that you are mistaken, do not forget to thank me.
I'm hoping to meet someone in the pub tonight. I expect that they will be there. but I haven't checked.
It's possible that I will be mistake in my assumption that they will be there.
If so, will you claim credit for that?


In the meantime, perhaps you can explain why the page you cited has data which shows that you are wrong, but you still think that you are right?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/09/2018 11:09:02
I'm hoping to meet someone in the pub tonight. I expect that they will be there. but I haven't checked.
It's possible that I will be mistake in my assumption that they will be there.
If so, will you claim credit for that?
I did not understand this text, please write again.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 21/09/2018 12:47:34
I think tides are a great way to accept the idea of gravity between the earth and the moon. One could almost suggest that the water buffers an elliptical orbit with the moon and vice versa, as Newton established with the planets and the sun. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/09/2018 12:58:22
Other planets that do not have water and the atmosphere move along the ellipse.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/09/2018 13:00:13
Darwin and Laplace, scattered their research beliefs that the moon does not affect the attraction to the barometer readings.
http://www.e-reading.mobi/chapter.php/87995/21/Voroncov-Vel%27yaminov_-_Laplas.html
http:/.../ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/645fall2003_web.dir/Ellie_Boyce/dynamic.htm
Great Pacific garbage patch
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: opportunity on 21/09/2018 13:14:56
Other planets that do not have water and the atmosphere move along the ellipse.


You're confirming Newton.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/09/2018 13:16:58
I did not understand this text, please write again.
You said
When you find out that you are mistaken, do not forget to thank me.
Well, I may be mistaken about lots of things.
But the evidence you quoted shows that I am not mistaken about the tides being driven by the Moon.

So, I wondered if you were saying I should thank you for any mistake I discover.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/09/2018 13:19:44
Other planets that do not have water and the atmosphere move along the ellipse.
To a good approximation, so does the Earth. (The GoG of the Earth Moon system follows very much closer to an ellipse).

So what?
For a start "planets that do not have water and the atmosphere" don't have much of a tide- so they are hardly relevant to the topic.
And what they do (like the Earth and the Moon) is follow what Newton would have predicted.

Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/09/2018 13:32:11
The vortex theory of tides can be easily verified by the connection between the height of the tidal wave and the rotation speed of the whirlpools.
The list of seas with an average swirl speed of more than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of more than 5 cm:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargasso Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Gulf of Alaska. etc..

The list of seas with an average swirl speed of less than 0.5 km / h, and an average tidal wave height of less than 5 cm:
The Baltic Sea, the Greenland Sea, the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Caspian Sea, the Chukchi Sea, the Kara Sea, the Laptev Sea, the Red Sea, the Marmara Sea, the Caribbean Sea, the Sea of ​​Japan, the Gulf of Mexico, etc.
Note: The height of the tidal wave (soliton) and the amplitude of the tides is not the same.
Who can refute this table.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 23/11/2018 02:36:22
This theory has very good testability.
If high tides form on that bank where you are standing, it means that the current is moving fast along this bank.
It is easy to check based on a map of the sea currents that are on the Internet.

Approximately the tide chart will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
And no philosophy.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Colin2B on 23/11/2018 08:22:22
It is easy to check based on a map of the sea currents that are on the Internet.

Approximately the tide chart will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
And no philosophy.
Yes, easy to check and show that it is wrong.
There is little point discussing this if you are going to make things up.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/11/2018 11:25:08
This theory has very good testability.
If high tides form on that bank where you are standing, it means that the current is moving fast along this bank.
It is easy to check based on a map of the sea currents that are on the Internet.

Approximately the tide chart will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
And no philosophy.
The amplitude of the tides also depends on the size of the whirlpools, the amount of water under the whirlpool, the distance from the coast to the whirlpool, and the direction of flow (to the west, east, north, south).
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Bored chemist on 24/11/2018 11:36:35
Get back to us when you have a better calculation that the currently accepted model, or can show that the current model has some actual problem.
(Problems caused by you not understanding the current model don't count).
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 26/11/2018 00:51:43
This theory has very good testability.
If high tides form on that bank where you are standing, it means that the current is moving fast along this bank.
It is easy to check based on a map of the sea currents that are on the Internet.

Approximately the tide chart will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
And no philosophy.
The amplitude of the tides also depends on the size of the whirlpools, the amount of water under the whirlpool, the distance from the coast to the whirlpool, and the direction of flow (to the west, east, north, south).
The only way to refute the whirlpool theory of tides is to name the coast where the current is moving fast, but there are no high tides there.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: The Spoon on 26/11/2018 07:29:24
This theory has very good testability.
If high tides form on that bank where you are standing, it means that the current is moving fast along this bank.
It is easy to check based on a map of the sea currents that are on the Internet.

Approximately the tide chart will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
And no philosophy.
The amplitude of the tides also depends on the size of the whirlpools, the amount of water under the whirlpool, the distance from the coast to the whirlpool, and the direction of flow (to the west, east, north, south).
The only way to refute the whirlpool theory of tides is to name the coast where the current is moving fast, but there are no high tides there.
Utter crap. The only thing that statement shows is your lack of understanding of tides.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 03/12/2018 04:27:11
All of these theories are easy to test with hydrocollider. Hydrocollider - half-filled vessel with a rotating liquid (bucket, glass, bottle, mixer).
If the liquid rotates in the right, then the bucket around itself (in orbit) must be rotated to the left.
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 03/12/2018 12:23:09
Vertical movement of ocean waters can be convincingly modeled using simple experience.
For this, a half-filled vessel with rotating liquid (bucket, tumbler, mixer) must be rotated around itself (in orbit).
If the liquid in the bucket rotates to the right, the bucket around itself (in orbit) must be rotated to the left.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/12/2018 19:42:16
"No tides are formed on these coasts where currents do not have a high velocity."
If there's a tide then there's flowing water so there are currents.
And equally obviously, if there are no currents there must be no tide.

That has nothing to do with whirlpools, does it?

Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/12/2018 20:50:38
In lakes, seas and oceans currents move in a circle.
Currents and whirlpools are one and the same.
For the western winds, also has the properties of the horoscope.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Circumpolar_Current
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/12/2018 21:25:12
Currents and whirlpools are one and the same.
Nonsense.
Ask a river.

For the western winds, also has the properties of the horoscope.
You need to find out what horoscope means.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horoscope
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: The Spoon on 13/12/2018 08:28:21
In lakes, seas and oceans currents move in a circle.
Currents and whirlpools are one and the same.
For the western winds, also has the properties of the horoscope.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Circumpolar_Current
Why do you persist in posting utter nonsense?
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/12/2018 19:48:15
Why has someone set up a vote about this?
Do they think science is some sort of popularity contest?
Title: Re: Tides is the result of the rotation of the Earth and whirlpools?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/12/2018 21:14:48
Vertical movement of ocean waters can be convincingly modeled using simple experience.
For this, a half-filled vessel with rotating liquid (bucket, tumbler, mixer) must be rotated around itself (in orbit).
If the liquid in the bucket rotates to the right, the bucket around itself (in orbit) must be rotated to the left.
When conducting an experiment with a hydro-calider, you need to follow safety precautions.
If your friends notice you with a rotating bucket, they may be suspicious of witchcraft.
To protect yourself, the experience should be carried out indoors or in a clean field.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/01/2019 21:07:59
The editorial staff is ready to annul the article if an objective critical review is written.
Scientific journal "NBICS-Science. Technology"
http://www.rusnor.org/pubs/articles/15638.htm
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 17/02/2019 13:12:55
On the German coast of the North Sea, the height of the tides depends on the speed of the current along the coast.
When the current moves at a speed of 1 km / h, the height of the tides will be one meter.
Approximately the tide table will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.

In order to disprove the whirlpool theory of tides, it is necessary to disprove this table, which is almost impossible.

Table of the dependence of the height of the tidal wave, on the speed of currents along all coasts of Germany and the world.
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/02/2019 13:23:48
On the German coast of the North Sea, the height of the tides depends on the speed of the current along the coast.
When the current moves at a speed of 1 km / h, the height of the tides will be one meter.
Approximately the tide table will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.

In order to disprove the whirlpool theory of tides, it is necessary to disprove this table, which is almost impossible.

Table of the dependence of the height of the tidal wave, on the speed of currents along all coasts of Germany and the world.
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
Nonsense.
There could be other explanations for the relationship.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/02/2019 13:15:24
On the German coast of the North Sea, the height of the tides depends on the speed of the current along the coast.
When the current moves at a speed of 1 km / h, the height of the tides will be one meter.
Approximately the tide table will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
On the German coast of the Baltic Sea, the height of the tides depends on the speed of the current along the coast.
When the current moves at a speed of 0.1 km / h, the height of the tides will be 0.1 meter.
Approximately the tide table will look like this:
0.1 km / h - 0.1 meter.
0.2 km / h - 0.2 meter.
0.3 km / h - 0.3 meter.
And so on.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: The Spoon on 18/02/2019 13:59:46
On the German coast of the North Sea, the height of the tides depends on the speed of the current along the coast.
When the current moves at a speed of 1 km / h, the height of the tides will be one meter.
Approximately the tide table will look like this:
1 km / h - 1 meter.
2 km / h - 2 meter.
3 km / h - 3 meter.
And so on.
On the German coast of the Baltic Sea, the height of the tides depends on the speed of the current along the coast.
When the current moves at a speed of 0.1 km / h, the height of the tides will be 0.1 meter.
Approximately the tide table will look like this:
0.1 km / h - 0.1 meter.
0.2 km / h - 0.2 meter.
0.3 km / h - 0.3 meter.
And so on.
Repeating nonsense does not make it true.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/02/2019 19:30:54
On the German coast of the Baltic Sea, the height of the tides depends on the speed of the current along the coast.
When the current moves at a speed of 0.1 km / h, the height of the tides will be 0.1 meter.
Approximately the tide table will look like this:
0.1 km / h - 0.1 meter.
0.2 km / h - 0.2 meter.
0.3 km / h - 0.3 meter.
And so on.

And how did you rule out all the other possible explanations for that relationship?
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 12/04/2019 19:22:04
It is believed that Jupiter, by tidal force, warmed the mantle of Io’s satellite, but for this, Io should rotate around its own axis, and Io always faces Jupiter with one side.
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)#Interaction_with_Jupiter's_magnetosphere
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 21:01:44
It is believed that Jupiter, by tidal force, warmed the mantle of Io’s satellite, but for this, Io should rotate around its own axis, and Io always faces Jupiter with one side

Io has an eccentric orbit (as do all orbiting objects). When it comes closer to Jupiter, the gravitational force increases on the satellite and as it moves further away, it decreases. This change in force over time is what creates the tides.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 13/04/2019 14:06:07
Io has an eccentric orbit (as do all orbiting objects). When it comes closer to Jupiter, the gravitational force increases on the satellite and as it moves further away, it decreases. This change in force over time is what creates the tides.
The satellite of Jupiter Io, is the most geologically active object in the solar system, and has more than 400 active volcanoes.
It is believed that Io's mantle heats up due to the tidal force that arises due to the eccentricity of the satellite's orbit, as a result of which, Io contracts and stretches like an accordion.

And according to the lunar "tide theory", for the formation of a "tidal effect" Io must rotate around its own axis, and Io always faces one side of Jupiter.
And let's not forget that "tidal force" depends more on the radius of the planet than on the force of gravity.
 
At the same time, the eccentricity of the orbit of the Moon and the Earth is much greater than that of Io.
The eccentricity of the orbit of Io is 0.004.
The eccentricity of the lunar orbit is 0.05.
The eccentricity of the Earth's orbit is 0.2.
Io's orbit is almost circular.
The question arises why on the Moon, the Earth and satellites that move along a hyperbole, similar geological activity does not occur.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эксцентриситет_орбиты
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)#Interaction_with_Jupiter's_magnetosphere
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/04/2019 15:46:44
Io has an eccentric orbit (as do all orbiting objects). When it comes closer to Jupiter, the gravitational force increases on the satellite and as it moves further away, it decreases. This change in force over time is what creates the tides.
You argue that Jupiter, tidal force induced by the eccentricity of Io's orbit, kneading heats the mantle of Io's satellite, but the eccentricity of the orbit of the Moon and the Earth is much more, why these phenomena of nature do not occur.
The eccentricity of the orbit of Io is 0.004.
The eccentricity of the moon's orbit is 0.05.
The eccentricity of the Earth's orbit is 0.2.
Io's orbit is almost circular.

For the formation of a "tidal effect" Io must necessarily rotate around its own axis, and Io always faces one side of Jupiter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_eccentricity
Jupiter is big.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 01:41:59
And the question arises: why such phenomena of nature do not occur on the Moon and the Earth?

Let’s compare the gravitational forces for those two objects.

The gravitational acceleration at the Earth’s surface is 9.807 m/s2. This surface of the Earth is about 6,781 kilometers from the Earth’s center. To calculate the gravitational acceleration at an arbitrary altitude, you would use the equation:

Gravitational acceleration = (9.807 x (6,781)2)/Distance2
Gravitational acceleration = 450,945,091.527/Distance2

If we put in the value for the Moon at its closest approach (perigee), we get:

Perigee gravitational acceleration = 450,945,091.527/362,6002
Perigee gravitational acceleration = 450,945,091.527/131,478,760,000
Perigee gravitational acceleration = 0.00342979422 m/s2

So now we’ll calculate the acceleration the Moon experiences at its greatest distance from Earth (apogee):

Apogee gravitational acceleration = 450,945,091.527/405,4002
Apogee gravitational acceleration = 450,945,091.527/164,349,160,000
Apogee gravitational acceleration = 0.00274382352 m/s2

Now we subtract these two values: 0.00342979422 - 0.00274382352 = 0.0006859707. So the change in gravitational acceleration that the Moon experiences from Earth throughout its orbit is 0.0006859707 m/s2

I’ll now do the same calculations for Io:

Perigee gravitational acceleration = (24.79 x (69,911)2)/423,0002
Perigee gravitational acceleration = 121,162,312,962/178,929,000,000
Perigee gravitational acceleration = 0.67715302137 m/s2

Apogee gravitational acceleration = 121,162,312,962/423,4002
Apogee gravitational acceleration = 121,162,312,962/179,267,560,000
Apogee gravitational acceleration = 0.67587416798 m/s2

Difference: 0.67715302137 - 0.67587416798 = 0.00127885338 m/s2

So despite the fact that Io has a much more circular orbit than the Moon does, it experiences a change in gravitational force throughout its orbit that is 86% stronger than the Moon does. However, that isn't the only factor. The rate of that change is also important. It takes the Moon 27.321661 days to orbit the Earth, whereas Io goes around Jupiter once every 1.769138 days, so the rate of change of gravitational acceleration for each satellite is:

Moon = 0.0006859707 m/s2/27.321661 days = 0.00002510754 m/s2 per day
Io = 0.00127885338 m/s2/1.769138 days = 0.00072286807 m/s2 per day

So Io experiences a rate of change of gravitational acceleration 28.79 times higher than the Moon.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 14/04/2019 11:46:08
And the “tidal force” depends more on the radius of the planet than on the force of gravity.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эксцентриситет_орбиты
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(moon)#Interaction_with_Jupiter's_magnetosphere
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 14:36:46
Good point.
Io is small.
It has a small radius.
On the other hand, that means it's volume is small ^3
So there's simply not very much of it to absorb the tidal energy.
So it gets hotter.

Also, part of the tidal energy on Io is due to the influence of the other satellites.
The other satellites of Earth are tiny so they hardly warm our Moon at all.
Title: Coriolis force presses the water to the shores, with constant force or force pul
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/04/2019 09:50:52
If the current moves along the meridian, the Coriolis force presses the water to the shores of the continent with a constant force or a pulsating force. (twice a day).
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/04/2019 11:37:20
If the current in the sea moves along the meridian, the Coriolis force presses the water to the shores, with a constant force or force pulsing.
Clearly wrong.
The force at the poles is zero.
The force elsewhere isn't zero.
So it's not constant.

Don't you get embarrassed by making all these mistakes?
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/04/2019 18:14:21
Why on the northern and southern coasts of the seas and oceans the tides are three times higher than on the eastern and western coasts, but it should be the other way around.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/04/2019 18:58:37
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_range#/media/File:M2_tidal_constituent.jpg
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: The Spoon on 18/04/2019 19:25:53
Why on the northern and southern coasts of the seas and oceans the tides are three times higher than on the eastern and western coasts, but it should be the other way around.
That is utter nonsense and factually incorrect. Why do you do it? Are you happy being thought an utter fool?
Title: Re: Coriolis force presses the water to the shores, with constant force or force pul
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 19/04/2019 09:11:15
If the current moves along the meridian, the Coriolis force presses the water to the shores of the continent with a constant force or a pulsating force. (twice a day).
The deflecting force of Coriolis depends on the speed of rotation of the earth both around the axis and around the sun.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/04/2019 10:17:05
If the current moves along the meridian, the Coriolis force presses the water to the shores of the continent with a constant force or a pulsating force. (twice a day).
The deflecting force of Coriolis depends on the speed of rotation of the earth both around the axis and around the sun.
You posted something that was wrong.
A couple of people pointed out that it was wrong.
So you went back and changed it as if you had been right in the first place.


That's a dishonest way to behave, isn't it?

Why on the northern and southern coasts of the seas and oceans the tides are three times higher than on the eastern and western coasts, but it should be the other way around.
I thought I'd quote the. whole of that so it's obvious if you try to do the same thing again.
It's just wrong.
If it's what your hypothesis predicts, thein it is proof that your hypothesis is wrong.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 22/04/2019 12:43:57
I edited the post, I do not change the meaning of what was written.
So I am within the rules and morals.
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 23/04/2019 08:29:37
The animation shows how the waters flowing from the Bay of Fundy into the Bay of Man rotate the whirlpool, so that, whirling, precessing reflects the tidal wave in the direction of the Bay of Fundy.
During the flood of the rivers flowing into the Bay of Fundy, the current speed in the north of the Gulf of Maine rises to 20 km / hour, as a result of which the height of the tides reaches 18 meters. https://earth.nullschool.net/?fbclid=IwAR3fDQD_uF0xgVpETpxVzbrv2xxgzOR0UfAKIEFDHAKoC2jzE-Mpu1lIWMs#current/ocean/surface/currents/equirectangular=-65.38,43.37,3000/loc=-68.002,43.607
https://images.app.goo.gl/hAE4F7kyMQ1mhcAF9
Mezen Bay White Sea tide height reaches 10 m.
https://earth.nullschool.net/?fbclid=IwAR245zpmdxn7SmOQdJ7qF9HhRn-54AYSZIChWmA6-0A2rXyJ9y2UivmtlZA#current/ocean/surface/currents/equirectangular=41.22,69.34,3000/loc=44.515,68.005
Tides - table. http://www.prilivy.com
Title: Re: Tides are the result of the rotation of the earth and the whirlpools.
Post by: Bored chemist on 23/04/2019 14:24:11
Whatever...
You said
Why on the northern and southern coasts of the seas and oceans the tides are three times higher than on the eastern and western coasts, but it should be the other way around.
And the simple answer is that, because it does not happen, we don't need to explain it.

You can stop now.
Title: Re: Rotating earth theory of two high tides a day
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/04/2019 03:06:28
We can't look at your calculations unless you post them.
If you are saying you have not done the maths, what are you using as the basis of your post?
In order to mathematically express a physical phenomenon of nature, including a gyroscope, first of all it is necessary to thoroughly study the physics of the phenomenon of nature; otherwise, the mathematical model will turn into a heresy hidden behind mathematical formulas.
The physical properties of a conventional solid gyro today are not fully understood, and the mechanics of a flexible gyroscope are much more complicated than the mechanics of a solid gyroscope, and the enormous whirlpool-gyroscope is also affected by the Coriolis force of the Earth and the Sun.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Colin2B on 29/04/2019 08:29:55
The physical properties of a conventional solid gyro today are not fully understood,
Rubbish, they are fully understood except by you, which is why you have this false speculation of whirlpool tides for which you can offer no evidence that matches observed values.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 30/04/2019 06:20:31
How to understand the fact that the amplitude of the tides in the Bay of Fundy yesterday was 6 meters, and today is 18 meters.
What changes have occurred in a day, for such a sharp jump?
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: The Spoon on 30/04/2019 08:36:33
Today in the Bay of Fundy the amplitude of the tides can be 6 meters, and tomorrow 18 meters.
What is the reason for such a sharp jump?
Where does it show this? Please post tide tables that show this variance.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: The Spoon on 01/05/2019 16:14:31
Today in the Bay of Fundy the amplitude of the tides can be 6 meters, and tomorrow 18 meters.
What is the reason for such a sharp jump?
Where does it show this? Please post tide tables that show this variance.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/05/2019 17:05:44
The amplitude of the tides on earth is almost the same every year, with the exception of the bays into which the rivers flow.
The tide tables are for months ahead, and if an error occurs it is not corrected.
And in the calendar you will not find a mistake.
You can get this information from the on-duty gauging station, or at the Institute of Oceanology.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: The Spoon on 01/05/2019 18:02:41
The amplitude of the tides on earth is almost the same every year, with the exception of the bays into which the rivers flow.
The tide tables are for months ahead, and if an error occurs it is not corrected.
And in the calendar you will not find a mistake.
You can get this information from the gauging station on duty.
That is not how it works. You made the claim that 'Today in the Bay of Fundy the amplitude of the tides can be 6 meters, and tomorrow 18 meters' it is up to you to provide evidence not for us to go searching for it.
If you cannot, we will assume you have made it up.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/05/2019 21:33:33
Today in the Bay of Fundy the amplitude of the tides can be 6 meters, and tomorrow 18 meters.
What is the reason for such a sharp jump?
Well, if it's true (which is questionable) a reasonable component might be the weather.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/05/2019 07:34:53
How to understand the fact that the amplitude of the tides in the Bay of Fundy yesterday was 6 meters, and today is 18 meters.
What changes have occurred in a day, for such a sharp jump?
Well, if it's true (which is questionable) a reasonable component might be the weather.
If you mean a storm surge, and a seasonal increase in the level of the bay.
When calculating the amplitude fluctuations tides, these facts are not taken into account.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Colin2B on 02/05/2019 08:54:59
The amplitude of the tides on earth is almost the same every year,
The amplitude and timing of the tides vary with the alignment of the moon and sun.
The situation in the Bay of Fundy and similar flow constrictions has been explained to you in many other posts.
Please do not repeat false information that has been previously explained.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: Bored chemist on 04/05/2019 02:40:33
I think the author means in the literal sense.
OK, but in the real sense they are simply wrong.
Title: Re: Ebb and flow - the result of the rotation of the Earth and gyres
Post by: The Spoon on 04/05/2019 10:47:18
Today in the Bay of Fundy the amplitude of the tides can be 6 meters, and tomorrow 18 meters.
What is the reason for such a sharp jump?
Where does it show this? Please post tide tables that show this variance.