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On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: Yusup Hizirov on 05/08/2018 13:52:27

Title: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 05/08/2018 13:52:27
The waters of the lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming cyclonic gyres.
The main cause of rotation of gyres are local winds, flowing into the seas and oceans of the river and the deflecting force of Coriolis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre

And the higher the speed of the winds, the higher the rotational speed of the gyres, thereby increasing the centrifugal force of the gyres and, as a result, the water level of the seas and oceans increases.
And the lower the rotation speed of the gyres, the lower the water level of the seas and oceans.
The speed of currents along the perimeter of the seas and oceans is not the same everywhere and depends on the depth of the coast.
In the shallow part of the seas and oceans, the flow moves fast, and in the deep water part of the seas and oceans the flow moves slowly.

Seasonal increase in the water level is observed not along the entire coast of the seas and oceans, but only on those coasts where a high angular velocity of currents and, as a result, a high centrifugal force of water. (Centrifugal force F = mv2 / r).
On straight coasts where currents do not have an angular velocity, the water level does not rise.

The waters of the Gulf of Finland rotate counterclockwise, forming a cycle in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal storm westerly winds and the deep Neva River unleash the gyre of more than 7 km / h, the centrifugal gyre of the gyre increases, making the water level on the east coast of the Gulf of Finland more than 3 meters.
A similar pattern of seasonal increase in water levels is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans.

The average depth of the Gulf of Finland is about 50 meters, on the east coast about 5 meters, in the west of the bay about 100 meters. For this reason, on the east coast of the Gulf of Finland, the linear and angular velocity of the currents is much higher.
As far as the depth of the coast decreases, the speed of the currents increases.
Flooding in St. Petersburg.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floods_in_Saint_Petersburg

In the Gulf of Finland, the seasonal increase in water levels has two peaks; in August-September and in December-January and in time coincide with the season of westerly winds and the high water of the Neva River.
The speed of the current in the Gulf of Finland exceeds 7 km / hour, and the maximum speed of the current on Earth reaches 30 km / hour, the wind speed is more than 100 km / hour.
If the storm wind moves in the direction of the current for several days, then the speed of the current increases several times.
The speed of the current depends on the wind speed, the duration of the wind and the height of the waves.
With an increase in wave heights, the windage of the waves increases and, as a result, the angle of attack of the wind increases.
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6
http://esimo.oceanography.ru/esp2/index/index/esp_id/1/section_id/6/menu_id/1734

The waters of the North Sea rotate counterclockwise, forming a huge circulation.
And when seasonal storm winds unleash the cycle, up to 20 km / h (on the southern coast), the centrifugal force of the cycle increases, so that on the southern coast of the North Sea the water level rises more than 5 meters.
(The storm surge is more than 2.5 meters, the centrifugal surge is more than 1 meter and the tides are more than 5 meters).
North Sea Flood 1953.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:North_Sea_Currents.svg

The waters of the Caspian Sea rotate counterclockwise, forming a circulation in the form of an ellipse.
And when the deep-flowing Volga River spins the circulation more than 10 km / h, the centrifugal power of the circulation increases, so that on the northern coast of the Caspian Sea the water level rises more than 1 meter.
Centrifugal surge is an invisible water block at the mouth of the river.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80

The average depth of the Caspian Sea is about 200 meters, on the north coast about 5 meters, on the south coast about 500m.
For this reason, on the northern coast of the Caspian Sea, the linear and angular velocity of the currents is much higher.
In the Caspian Sea, the peak of the seasonal water level increase is observed in June-August and coincides in time with the flood of the Volga River.
During a drought over the Volga River basin, the water level in the north of the Caspian does not rise.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/06.png
https://bigenc.ru/geography/text/2050560

In the Bay of Bengal, in the season of monsoon winds and floods of the Ganges River, the speed of rotation increases over 10 km / h, due to which the seasonal rise in water levels exceeds 15 meters.
(The storm surge is more than 2.5 meters, the centrifugal surge is more than 1.5 meters and the tides are more than 10 meters).
Bay of Bengal flood 1970.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Bhola_cyclone

The seasonal increase in the level of the Black Sea (up to 40 cm) is most pronounced in the southeastern part of the sea, where in summer the angular velocity of the currents along the coast reaches its maximum value.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/07.html

The height of the floods depends not so much on the speed and direction of the wind, but on the speed of rotation of the cycle, due to which centrifugal surge and abnormally high tides are formed.
For this reason, on different coasts with the same wind speed, the height of floods varies.
In St. Petersburg, small floods occur during the calm and with the east wind.
Storm surge of high altitude in the Northern Dvina River can be formed under the influence of the north wind.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png
https://vestnik5.geogr.msu.ru/jour/article/view/11?locale=ru_RU
If during a storm the deep rivers that flow into the bay do not create a whirlpool or the storm wind moves against the whirlwind, then the flood does not form and is easy to predict.

The rotational speed of the gyre in the Gulf of Finland can be significantly reduced if the flow of the Neva River is directed against the currents of the Gulf of Finland, with the help of the St. Petersburg Flood Protection Complex.
To do this, 1-5 days before the flood, you need to close the flood gates of the northern branch of the dam.
(The gateway can not be closed).
And the flood gates of the southern branch of the dike close before the flood.
https://images.app.goo.gl/TGwpawDcXoDFTyWi8
https://m.fontanka.ru/2018/12/28/071/
At the same time, a fully enclosed dam creates ideal conditions for the formation of a diurnal tidal wave, whose amplitude depends on the depth of the coast and the speed of the current along the dam.
In the Gulf of Finland, the storm surge height reaches 1.5 meters, the centrifugal surge 0.5 meters, and the daily tides are 2 meters.
The reason for the lowering of the water level in the Gulf of Finland before the flood is the formation of a tidal hump in the throat of the Gulf of Finland.

The assumption that the cause of the seasonal increase in the water level can be the pressure of the atmosphere, the flow of the rivers, the temperature difference and the salinity of the water do not hold water, these factors may raise the water level by several cm, but not more.
The presented theory can be easily verified by relating the speed of the current along the coast with the level of the seas and oceans.
(Based on a map of depths and currents, seas and oceans).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cycle_of_sea_level_height
https://research.csiro.au/slrwavescoast/sea-level/sea-level-change/
http://www.okeanavt.ru/tainiokeana/1066mifosrednemurovne.html

Dear Climatologists!
I propose to use the theory presented for weather forecasting in seas and oceans.
If you have any questions, you can contact the editors of the journals or the author.

The discovery was published in the Russian-German scientific peer-reviewed journal ďEastern European Scientific JournalĒ No. 3/2015. Page 64. June
http://www.auris-archiv.de/journal.html
Scientific journal "NBICS-Science. Technologies" No. 4/2018. Page 104.
(Nanotechnology Society of Russia)
http://www.nanonewsnet.ru/news/2018/vyshel-chetvertyi-nomer-zhurnala-nbiks-naukatekhnologii

Continued: The mechanism of the vertical circulation of the waters of the oceans.
Forum Federal target program "World Ocean" http://okeany.com/forum/784.htm
"Forum on the Flagship". http://vmf.net.ru/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2328
French Maritime Forum (Discussion).
http://forummarine.forumactif.com/t9357-le-flux-et-reflux-est-le-resultat-de-la-rotation-de-la-terre
English forum. "Weather/Earth sciences" https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35094.0
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: The Spoon on 05/08/2018 22:40:37
Waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre

The main reason for the rotation of the whirlpools are, local winds, flowing into the seas and oceans of the river and the deflecting force of Coriolis.
And the higher the speed of the winds, the higher the rotation speed of the whirlpools, and as a consequence, the higher the centrifugal force of the whirlpools, thereby raising the level of the waters of the seas and oceans.
And the lower the rotation speed of the whirlpools, the lower the water level of the seas and oceans ..

The speed of the currents along the perimeter of the seas and oceans is not the same everywhere and depends on the depth of the coast.
In the shallow part of the seas and oceans, the current moves rapidly, and in the deep-water part of the seas and oceans the current moves slowly.

Seasonal water level rise is not observed throughout the coast of the seas and oceans, but only in those coasts where the high angular velocity of the currents and as a consequence, the high centrifugal force of the water. (Centrifugal force F = mv2 / r).
On the rectilinear coasts, where the currents do not have angular velocity, the water level does not increase.

The waters of the Gulf of Finland rotate counter-clockwise, forming a whirlpool in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal south-west winds untwist the whirlpool to 5 km / h, the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, so that the water level rises to 30 cm on the eastern coast of the Gulf of Finland.
A similar scheme of seasonal water level rise is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans ..

The average depth of the Gulf of Finland is about 50 meters, on the east coast about 5 meters, in the west of the bay about 100 meters, for this reason, on the eastern coast of the Gulf of Finland, the linear and angular velocity of the currents is much higher (by how much less the depth of the coast, ) ..

In the Gulf of Finland, the seasonal increase in the water level has two peaks: in August-September, and in December-January and coincide with the season of south-west winds.
The current velocity in the Gulf of Finland reaches from 2 to 17 km / h, and the maximum current speed on the Earth reaches 30 km / h, the wind speed is more than 100 km / h.
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6

The waters of the Caspian Sea rotate counter-clockwise, forming a whirlpool in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal winds and flood river Volga unleash the whirlpool, the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, due to which, on the northern coast of the Caspian Sea, the water level rises to 1 meter.

The average depth of the Caspian Sea is about 200 meters, on the northern coast about 5 meters, on the southern coast about 700 meters.
Due to this, in the north of the Caspian, the current speed rises from 1 to 10 km / h.
In the Caspian Sea, the peak seasonal increase in water levels is observed in June-August and coincides with the season of winds, and the flood of the Volga River.
During the drought over the Volga river basin, the level of the Caspian Sea does not increase.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/06.png
http://goo.gl/47tXq2

During the season of the western winds, the current velocity along the Murmansk coast of the Barents Sea rises to 5 km / h, due to which the seasonal rise in the water level reaches 0.5 meters.
The maximum level values ​​are observed in October-November minimum in April-May.
http://proznania.ru/?page_id=2353

In the Bay of Bengal in the season of monsoon winds, the whirlpool speed rises to 10 km / h, due to which, the seasonal rise in water level reaches 1.2 meters.
http://www.aziya-tur.ru/bengal%27skii-zaliv.php

Seasonal changes in the level of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk are 0.2-0.5 m. The highest levels are observed in November-January, the smallest in March-April.
http://parusa.narod.ru/bib/books/fareast/1406-1.htm

Seasonal increase in the level of the Black Sea (up to 40 cm) is most pronounced in the southeastern part of the sea, where in summer the angular velocity of the currents reaches a maximum value.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/07.html

The assumption that the cause of seasonal water level rise may be atmospheric pressure, river runoff, temperature difference and water salinity does not stand up to criticism, these factors can increase the water level by several cm, but not more.
Cyclones moving above the surfЭЭace of the sea from west to east at a speed of up to 40 km / h can increase sea level for several days by untwisting the whirlpool.
http://www.okeanavt.ru/tainiokeana/1066mifosrednemurovne.html
The presented theory can be easily verified by the connection between the velocity of currents aоnd the sea level and the oceans.
(Drawing on a map of depths and currents, seas and oceans).
This is the same nonsense you have posted previously and failed to provide any evidence for.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 06/08/2018 04:25:52
The problem of the ocean level seemed insoluble two millennia ago and, as we see, remains unresolved until our days. However, it is possible that features of the level surface of the ocean will be determined in the near future by geophysical measurements made with the help of artificial Earth satellites.
http://www.okeanavt.ru/tainiokeana/1066mifosrednemurovne.html
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Colin2B on 13/08/2018 14:45:39
The waters of the Gulf of Finland rotate counterclockwise, forming a whirlpool in the form of an ellipse.
This is incorrect.
The gulf is considerably wider than most estuaries; current flowing along the coast S to N enters the southern end and flows up the estuary progressively crossing to the N side and exiting on the N side of the entrance. There is no overall circulation or whirlpool.
Also the pattern changes by month and is not consistent.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: The Spoon on 23/08/2018 09:42:07
The waters of the North Sea rotate counter-clockwise forming a huge whirlpool.
And when seasonal northwesterly storm winds unleash a whirlpool (up to 20 km / h on the southern coast), the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, so that on the southern coast of the North Sea the water level rises to 5 meters.
(Storm wave 2.5 meters, centrifugal wave 2.5 meters).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953
If you are going to post a link, try top at least comprehend what it is about instead of posting your usual nonsense.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Colin2B on 26/08/2018 13:08:30
The waters of the North Sea rotate counter-clockwise forming a huge whirlpool.
And when seasonal northwesterly storm winds unleash a whirlpool (up to 20 km / h on the southern coast), the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, so that on the southern coast of the North Sea the water level rises to 5 meters.
This is untrue.
The dominant currents in the north sea are dependant on wind direction.
This diagram shows the main currents for each direction of wind.
 [ Invalid Attachment ]
With westerly winds a cyclonic circulation (lower left picture) is dominant, which reverses in the case of easterly winds. For north-westerly and south-easterly winds you get states of stagnation.
As has been pointed out before, you are confusing the circulation of the tidal wave with a circulation of current. A wave is not a current.

Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 26/08/2018 15:48:11
This theory does not explain the reasons for the formation of whirlpools and currents, these reasons have long been known, and they have their own authors.
For this theory it is sufficient if there are whirlpools and currents.
If there are no whirlpools, the physics of the ocean rests.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 09:16:04
This is the same nonsense you have posted previously and failed to provide any evidence for.
Give more objective criticism.
The presented theory can be easily verified by the connection between the velocity of currents aоnd the sea level and the oceans.
(Drawing on a map of depths and currents, seas and oceans).
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 31/08/2018 11:34:41
Hey Yusup (thought I'd post....apologies for the absence).


Have the forum members considered the Coriolis effect? I'm sure they have, yet it appears there are vulnerabilities to it regarding atmospheric conditions such as heat and water levels and land mass to water ratios:

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/coriolis-effect/

I remember watching this Simpsons episode in the 90's:



Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 12:09:23
Hey Yusup (thought I'd post....apologies for the absence).
Congratulations on your return to your native harbor, your temporary absence had a negative impact on the forum.
--------------------------------------
One of the purposes of the Coriolis force in nature is the formation of whirlpools of cyclones and anticyclones. And in order to fully manifest the Coriolis force, there should be an unbalance of the linear and angular velocity, both with respect to the Earth's axis and relative to the axis of the Sun.
The Coriolis force also depends on the inclination of the Earth's axis, to the plane of the Earth's orbit. And without taking into account the orbital rotation of the Earth and the inclination of the Earth's axis relative to the axis of the Sun, the Coriolis force will remain in science as a decoration useless for scientific and practical application and a task for the development of thinking in schoolchildren.
With apparent simplicity, the Coriolis force for perception is extremely difficult. And to objectively study, and analyze it, without a model of the solar system, it is impossible ..
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 12:20:28
Have the forum members considered the Coriolis effect? I'm sure they have, yet it appears there are vulnerabilities to it regarding atmospheric conditions such as heat and water levels and land mass to water ratios:
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/coriolis-effect/
Making the gyroscope properties of cyclones and anticyclones whirlpools and taking into account the manifestation of the Coriolis force both relative to the Earth's axis and relative to the axis of the Sun, I believe, will significantly increase the predictability of the weather. (For example, the reason for blocking anticyclones).
The creation of whirlpools cyclones and anticyclones gyro properties, this is a revolution in science and where and how these properties manifest themselves in nature, this is only a consequence ..
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 31/08/2018 12:37:02
Your question is a "seasonal increase" in water levels, and that ultimately comes down to the effect of the Moon. Beyond that is what this topic is about, right?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 13:24:40
Your question is a "seasonal increase" in water levels, and that ultimately comes down to the effect of the Moon. Beyond that is what this topic is about, right?
The moon does not affect the seasonal increase in sea and ocean levels.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 31/08/2018 15:50:39
Quote from: Kryptid
The Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute confirms that a change in pressure of 1 hPa changes the sea level by 1 centimeter: https://www.smhi.se/en/theme/air-pressure-and-sea-level-1.12266
------------------------------- 
In this link, we write about the unreal increase in the level of the Gulf of Bothnia in the Baltic Sea (1-2 meters), because of the decrease in air pressure.
Let me ask you a question.
In what other seas is the rise in the water level due to a decrease in air pressure and by what amount?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Kryptid on 31/08/2018 18:59:12
In this link, we write about the unreal increase in the level of the Gulf of Bothnia in the Baltic Sea (1-2 meters), because of the decrease in air pressure.

Unreal? I suppose you have better data than the Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute does?

Quote
Let me ask you a question.
In what other seas is the rise in the water level due to a decrease in air pressure and by what amount?

Any sea where the air pressure is lower than average would necessarily experience a rise in water level. You've already been given the formula needed to calculate it for yourself.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 02:56:18
In this link, we write about the unreal increase in the level of the Gulf of Bothnia in the Baltic Sea (1-2 meters), because of the decrease in air pressure.

Unreal? I suppose you have better data than the Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute does?

Quote
Let me ask you a question.
In what other seas is the rise in the water level due to a decrease in air pressure and by what amount?

Any sea where the air pressure is lower than average would necessarily experience a rise in water level. You've already been given the formula needed to calculate it for yourself.
You did not answer the questions.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Kryptid on 01/09/2018 05:05:51
You did not answer the questions.

I'll answer them when you answer my question in this thread: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74434.0
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 08:49:39
You did not answer the questions.


I'll answer them when you answer my question in this thread: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74434.0
You can not answer this question, for the reason that.
1. It was recorded that during the cyclone the maximum level increased by 10 cm (doubtful).
2. Water is an incompressible fluid, it's easy to check by Сsucking air from a bottle of water.
3. The average depth of the Gulf of Bothnia is 50 meters.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Kryptid on 01/09/2018 15:34:31
1. It was recorded that during the cyclone the maximum level increased by 10 cm (doubtful).

Doubtful? So you're calling the data provided by the Swedish Meteorological and Hydrological Institute a lie?

Quote
2. Water is an incompressible fluid, it's easy to check by Сsucking air from a bottle of water.

That's not true. No substance is incompressible. There are substances with very low compressibility, but none are truly imcompressible. The fact that sound waves can travel through a material is proof of its compressibility, as sound waves are pressure waves that require the material to compress and expand as the wave travels through it.

More importantly than that, the water isn't required to decompress in order for low pressure to raise water levels in one area. It's exactly for the same reason that water rises through a straw when you suck on it: the higher pressure on the water outside your mouth pushes the water level of the glass as a whole down as the water level inside of the straw rises.

Quote
3. The average depth of the Gulf of Bothnia is 50 meters.

What does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/09/2018 19:18:26
In what other seas is the rise in the water level due to a decrease in air pressure and by what amount?
Why ask when you were already told?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953

It's a perfectly well known phenomenon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_surge
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 01/09/2018 19:49:16
There are many reasons for the seasonal rise in sea level, they do not refute each other.
https://research.csiro.au/slrwavescoast/sea-level/sea-level-change/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cycle_of_sea_level_height
https:/.../en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_rise
------------------------------------------
The presented theory on the level of complexity, is at the level of primary school. And on scientific significance, at the level of the opening of the century.
The theory of tides is easier to understand, first by studying this theory.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Kryptid on 01/09/2018 21:14:31
The biggest mystery to me is why Yusup Hizirov asked for a link to the claim that a decrease in air pressure of 1 hectopascal causes the sea level to rise by 1 centimeter when he knew in advance that he was going to deny it anyway. I provided you with an authoritative source written by experts in the field of meteorology and hydrology, yet you still denied that was true. You would have done us all a great favor if you had told us that you would not accept any evidence, not even that given by the experts, that your ideas are wrong. Then we all would have known better than to waste our time trying to teach you basic science.

That being said, I'm out.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 05:57:07
I provided you with an authoritative source written by experts in the field of meteorology and hydrology, yet you still denied that was true.
The level of the Gulf of Bothnia is 50 meters deep, can not rise so high, due to a decrease in air pressure, and a centrifugal wave can raise the sea level to 2-3 meters if the whirlpool speed rises to 10-15 km per hour.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 06:16:42
If the cyclone hangs over the sea, it rotates the water and lowers the air pressure.
And the sea level increases the whirlpool.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Colin2B on 02/09/2018 15:27:17
The presented theory on the level of complexity, is at the level of primary school. And on scientific significance, at the level of the opening of the century.
The theory of tides is easier to understand, first by studying this theory.
Who is ready to refute or recognize this theory.

You have already answered it for us. This link you quoted says nothing about rotation speeds of whirlpools, but does say:
ďWhat are the causes of this phenomenon?
The main culprit of the tides is the Moon and, to a lesser extent, the Sun. The inhabitants of the sea coast have long noticed the connection of the tides with the movement of these luminaries.
How does the Moon and the Sun affect the movement of water in the seas and oceans? That's how. It is known that the Moon moves around the Earth and that both planets move around the Sun. But since the Moon is many times closer to the Earth than the Sun, the Moon's attraction to the Earth is much stronger than the impact of the Sun. Naturally, this influence has the strongest and most visible effect on the liquid shell of our planet, that is, on the oceans and seas.
If there were no continents and islands on the surface of the Earth and the whole Earth would be covered by water (also of equal depth), then the impact of the moon on this world ocean would have the following effect. In the region of the ocean closest to the Moon, due to attraction, there will be a rising of water to meet the Moon. At the same time, in the opposite part of the world ocean, the centrifugal force will also cause a rise in water. But since the rising of the water can not happen anywhere without a drop in the level elsewhere, this fall will occur in a strip perpendicular to the line of action of the moon. The moon circumnavigates the globe within 24 hours 50 minutes; Thus, it is obvious that the rising and lowering of waters as a result of the tidal wave following the movement of the Moon will take place twice a day in the world's oceans.
We said that the Sun, due to its remoteness, has less impact on the ocean's waters. However, when the Moon and the Sun are aligned with the Earth on one straight line (in the new moon and the full moon), the particles of water will be under the influence of both luminaries, and, naturally, this will cause the greatest tide. But there may be an opposite phenomenon, when the Moon and the Sun are on lines perpendicular to each other. In this case, the forces of the two luminaries will be directed in different directions and will counteract each other. Obviously, and the tide will be at this moment the smallest.
We considered this phenomenon now in the conditions of a boundless world ocean, but in fact, continents and islands divide the world ocean into separate oceans and various seas. The land impedes the free propagation of the tidal wave and introduces a great variety in the nature of this phenomenon.Ē


So as @Bored chemist  says, you seem to be in agreement with us that the moon and sun are the primary reason for tides.

Also:
The length of the tidal wave depends on the diameter of the whirlpool. And the height of the tidal wave depends on the rotation speed of the whirlpool of the orbital velocity of the Earth, and the time of the tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
A = V1 ē V2 / t
where: A is the amplitude of the tidal wave (precession angle).
V1 - rotation speed of the whirlpool.
V2 is the orbital velocity of the Earth.
t - the time of tilting of the whirlpool (12 hours).
The first problem with this formula is that it does not return an amplitude, it produces a number of square metres per second. That is clearly wrong.

Next problem involves timing:
As is known, everything that rotates, including whirlpools, possess the property of a gyro (yule) to maintain the vertical position of the axis in space, regardless of the rotation of the Earth.
If you look at the Earth from the Sun, the whirlpools, rotating together with the Earth, turn over twice a day, due to which the whirlpools precess (swing by 1-2 degrees) and reflect the tidal wave around the entire perimeter of the whirlpool.
A rigid gyroscope on earth will indeed align itself to the sidereal day which is 4mins shorter than the solar day. However, that gives a number of problems for your theory.
Firstly, we know from observation that the main tide period is period is about 12hrs 25mins - half a lunar day - so two tides take 24hrs 50mins which is the average time for the Earth to rotate once relative to the Moon. This is a hugh difference from your difference of 4mins in 24hrs making your double tide period 23hrs 56mins.  Clearly your predictions can never work with this theory.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/09/2018 19:26:17
You are in the theme "Seasonal rise in the level of the seas and oceans", A you write about the tides.
You were wrong with the topic.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Colin2B on 03/09/2018 07:39:48
You are in the theme "Seasonal rise in the level of the seas and oceans", A you write about the tides.
You were wrong with the topic.

I was responding to your post #26 where you raise topic of tides:
The presented theory on the level of complexity, is at the level of primary school. And on scientific significance, at the level of the opening of the century.
The theory of tides is easier to understand, first by studying this theory.
Who is ready to refute or recognize this theory.

Maybe it is you who are wrong with the topic.
Either way, your theory of tides is broken, and even you provide links showing moon/sun theory is correct.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: The Spoon on 03/09/2018 14:12:04
The presented theory on the level of complexity, is at the level of primary school. And on scientific significance, at the level of the opening of the century.
The theory of tides is easier to understand, first by studying this theory.
Who is ready to refute or recognize this theory.
Nobody. It is nonsense.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 04/09/2018 01:37:49
The presented theory on the level of complexity, is at the level of primary school. And on scientific significance, at the level of the opening of the century.
The theory of tides is easier to understand, first by studying this theory.
Who is ready to refute or recognize this theory.
Nobody. It is nonsense.
Write constructive criticism.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 05/09/2018 09:23:48
Your question is a "seasonal increase" in water levels, and that ultimately comes down to the effect of the Moon. Beyond that is what this topic is about, right?
The moon does not affect the seasonal increase in sea and ocean levels.

Yes, apologies for not explaining further.

I'm thinking that with four seasons a year, there are 3 times in each season the Moon is full and effects tides in different areas and different geographies, each season. Of course each season has different heat-cold differentials with each of these triple tidal activities each season.


I think oceanography is going to be a buzz-subject, a growth science, in years to come, and the effect of the ocean in the context of global warming. The idea of scientific and mathematical modelling of tides and the like will be crucial to social planning.



Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 10/09/2018 09:55:41
I think oceanography is going to be a buzz-subject, a growth science, in years to come, and the effect of the ocean in the context of global warming. The idea of scientific and mathematical modelling of tides and the like will be crucial to social planning.
The reason for the seasonal rise in sea level is sought by all the institutions of oceanology of the world.
But they do not know what the answer is at this forum.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 10/09/2018 11:03:10
I think oceanography is going to be a buzz-subject, a growth science, in years to come, and the effect of the ocean in the context of global warming. The idea of scientific and mathematical modelling of tides and the like will be crucial to social planning.
The reason for the seasonal rise in sea level is sought by all the institutions of oceanology of the world.
But they do not know what the answer is at this forum.

I'm thinking the seasonal rise is because of how the earth oscillates "as" the seasons. Sure we have the spin of the earth and those currents and tidal activity (with the Moon, apologies, but the gravity is there), yet "perpendicular" to the spin of the planet is the axial to and fro tilting which would "have to" create a type of up and down seasonal tidal wash effect, right?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Colin2B on 10/09/2018 13:19:49
The reason for the seasonal rise in sea level is sought by all the institutions of oceanology of the world.
But they do not know what the answer is at this forum.
It isnít sought by the major institutions, and I know because I studied at one, they are able to predict tides to a high degree of accuracy.
The answer is know, but you fail to understand it because you are locked into a hypothesis which gives incorrect answers.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 10/09/2018 13:32:23
The reason for the seasonal rise in sea level is sought by all the institutions of oceanology of the world.
But they do not know what the answer is at this forum.
It isnít sought by the major institutions, and I know because I studied at one, they are able to predict tides to a high degree of accuracy.
The answer is know, but you fail to understand it because you are locked into a hypothesis which gives incorrect answers.


Yusup has got that, Colin. The issue isn't the idea of the general tides, but the variations of tides, the variations more towards the poles, and in a seasonal context.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Colin2B on 10/09/2018 13:53:13
Yusup has got that, Colin. The issue isn't the idea of the general tides, but the variations of tides, the variations more towards the poles, and in a seasonal context.
No he hasnít got it. Look at #1 to #7, he is arguing a whirpool hypothesis which isnít supported by actual observations.
He is consistently confusing circulating waves with circulating currents.
You canít have a discussion on seasonal variations which denies the obvious link between sun/moon and tidal periodicity, as it is the superposition of all the effects which gives rise to what we observe.
Until he accepts that the sun+moon are responsible for the primary tidal effects it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation about tides.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 10/09/2018 13:57:26
Yusup has got that, Colin. The issue isn't the idea of the general tides, but the variations of tides, the variations more towards the poles, and in a seasonal context.
No he hasnít got it. Look at #1 to #7, he is arguing a whirpool hypothesis which isnít supported by actual observations.
He is consistently confusing circulating waves with circulating currents.
You canít have a discussion on seasonal variations which denies the obvious link between sun/moon and tidal periodicity, as it is the superposition of all the effects which gives rise to what we observe.
Until he accepts that the sun+moon are responsible for the primary tidal effects it is impossible to have an intelligent conversation about tides.


Colin, its the reference of the fundamentals, chicken or the egg, large scale effects or small scale first.


As I said in another post:

Yusuf is an "Oceanographer". He knows his stuff. He's asking the question of tides with the aim of presenting "local" tidal sources, not basic earth-moon dynamic.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 21/09/2018 14:50:07
Its possible, at least equate in gravitational forces of nearest satellites, such as the Moon.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 21/09/2018 15:41:33
Repeat please this question.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/09/2018 15:52:26



Repeat please this question.
What do you mean?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 21/09/2018 16:04:48
The presented theory on the level of complexity, is at the level of primary school. And on scientific significance, at the level of the opening of the century.
The theory of tides is easier to understand, first by studying this theory.
--------------------------------------------
Waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre

The main reason for the rotation of the whirlpools are, local winds, flowing into the seas and oceans of the river and the deflecting force of Coriolis.
And the higher the speed of the winds, the higher the rotation speed of the whirlpools, and as a consequence, the higher the centrifugal force of the whirlpools, thereby raising the level of the waters of the seas and oceans.
And the lower the rotation speed of the whirlpools, the lower the water level of the seas and oceans ..

The speed of the currents along the perimeter of the seas and oceans is not the same everywhere and depends on the depth of the coast.
In the shallow part of the seas and oceans, the current moves rapidly, and in the deep-water part of the seas and oceans the current moves slowly.

Seasonal water level rise is not observed throughout the coast of the seas and oceans, but only in those coasts where the high angular velocity of the currents and as a consequence, the high centrifugal force of the water. (Centrifugal force F = mv2 / r).
On the rectilinear coasts, where the currents do not have angular velocity, the water level does not increase.

The waters of the Gulf of Finland rotate counter-clockwise, forming a whirlpool in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal south-west winds untwist the whirlpool to 5 km / h, the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, so that the water level rises to 30 cm on the eastern coast of the Gulf of Finland.
A similar scheme of seasonal water level rise is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans ..

The average depth of the Gulf of Finland is about 50 meters, on the east coast about 5 meters, in the west of the bay about 100 meters, for this reason, on the eastern coast of the Gulf of Finland, the linear and angular velocity of the currents is much higher (by how much less the depth of the coast, ) ..

In the Gulf of Finland, the seasonal increase in the water level has two peaks: in August-September, and in December-January and coincide with the season of south-west winds.
The current velocity in the Gulf of Finland reaches from 2 to 17 km / h, and the maximum current speed on the Earth reaches 30 km / h, the wind speed is more than 100 km / h.
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6

The waters of the North Sea rotate counter-clockwise forming a huge whirlpool.
And when seasonal northwesterly storm winds unleash a whirlpool (up to 20 km / h on the southern coast), the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, so that on the southern coast of the North Sea the water level rises to 5 meters.
(Storm wave 2.5 meters, centrifugal wave 2.5 meters).
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:North_Sea_Currents.svg
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953

The waters of the Caspian Sea rotate counter-clockwise, forming a whirlpool in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal winds and flood river Volga unleash the whirlpool, the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, due to which, on the northern coast of the Caspian Sea, the water level rises to 1 meter.

The average depth of the Caspian Sea is about 200 meters, on the northern coast about 5 meters, on the southern coast about 700 meters.
Due to this, in the north of the Caspian, the current speed rises from 1 to 10 km / h.
In the Caspian Sea, the peak seasonal increase in water levels is observed in June-August and coincides with the season of winds, and the flood of the Volga River.
During the drought over the Volga river basin, the level of the Caspian Sea does not increase.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/06.png
http://goo.gl/47tXq2

During the season of the western winds, the current velocity along the Murmansk coast of the Barents Sea rises to 5 km / h, due to which the seasonal rise in the water level reaches 0.5 meters.
The maximum level values ​​are observed in October-November minimum in April-May.
http://proznania.ru/?page_id=2353

In the Bay of Bengal in the season of monsoon winds, the whirlpool speed rises to 10 km / h, due to which, the seasonal rise in water level reaches 1.2 meters.
http://www.aziya-tur.ru/bengal%27skii-zaliv.php

Seasonal changes in the level of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk are 0.2-0.5 m. The highest levels are observed in November-January, the smallest in March-April.
http://parusa.narod.ru/bib/books/fareast/1406-1.htm

Seasonal increase in the level of the Black Sea (up to 40 cm) is most pronounced in the southeastern part of the sea, where in summer the angular velocity of the currents reaches a maximum value.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/07.html

The assumption that the cause of seasonal water level rise may be atmospheric pressure, river runoff, temperature difference and water salinity does not stand up to criticism, these factors can increase the water level by several cm, but not more.
Cyclones moving above the surfЭЭace of the sea from west to east at a speed of up to 40 km / h can increase sea level for several days by untwisting the whirlpool.
http://www.okeanavt.ru/tainiokeana/1066mifosrednemurovne.html
The presented theory can be easily verified by the connection between the velocity of currents aоnd the sea level and the oceans.
(Drawing on a map of depths and currents, seas and oceans).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cycle_of_sea_level_height
https://research.csiro.au/slrwavescoast/sea-level/sea-level-change/


That was the first question.


What is the answer to the last in this series and is it a good one for you?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 21/09/2018 16:32:26
The only question mark in that was in this
http://proznania.ru/?page_id=2353
and it's not a question.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: opportunity on 21/09/2018 16:56:15
fried bacon...
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 22/09/2018 00:46:41
fried bacon...
Twice!
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 23/09/2018 09:24:47
The presented theory on the level of complexity, is at the level of primary school. And on scientific significance, at the level of the opening of the century.
The theory of tides is easier to understand, first by studying this theory.
--------------------------------------------
Waters of lakes, seas and oceans of the northern hemisphere rotate counterclockwise, and the waters of the southern hemisphere rotate clockwise, forming giant whirlpools. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre

The main reason for the rotation of the whirlpools are, local winds, flowing into the seas and oceans of the river and the deflecting force of Coriolis.
And the higher the speed of the winds, the higher the rotation speed of the whirlpools, and as a consequence, the higher the centrifugal force of the whirlpools, thereby raising the level of the waters of the seas and oceans.
And the lower the rotation speed of the whirlpools, the lower the water level of the seas and oceans ..

The speed of the currents along the perimeter of the seas and oceans is not the same everywhere and depends on the depth of the coast.
In the shallow part of the seas and oceans, the current moves rapidly, and in the deep-water part of the seas and oceans the current moves slowly.

Seasonal water level rise is not observed throughout the coast of the seas and oceans, but only in those coasts where the high angular velocity of the currents and as a consequence, the high centrifugal force of the water. (Centrifugal force F = mv2 / r).
On the rectilinear coasts, where the currents do not have angular velocity, the water level does not increase.

The waters of the Gulf of Finland rotate counter-clockwise, forming a whirlpool in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal south-west winds untwist the whirlpool to 5 km / h, the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, so that the water level rises to 30 cm on the eastern coast of the Gulf of Finland.
A similar scheme of seasonal water level rise is observed in all lakes, seas and oceans ..

The average depth of the Gulf of Finland is about 50 meters, on the east coast about 5 meters, in the west of the bay about 100 meters, for this reason, on the eastern coast of the Gulf of Finland, the linear and angular velocity of the currents is much higher (by how much less the depth of the coast, ) ..

In the Gulf of Finland, the seasonal increase in the water level has two peaks: in August-September, and in December-January and coincide with the season of south-west winds.
The current velocity in the Gulf of Finland reaches from 2 to 17 km / h, and the maximum current speed on the Earth reaches 30 km / h, the wind speed is more than 100 km / h.
http://goo.gl/eYVTo6

The waters of the North Sea rotate counter-clockwise forming a huge whirlpool.
And when seasonal northwesterly storm winds unleash a whirlpool (up to 20 km / h on the southern coast), the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, so that on the southern coast of the North Sea the water level rises to 5 meters.
(Storm wave 2.5 meters, centrifugal wave 2.5 meters).
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:North_Sea_Currents.svg
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953

The waters of the Caspian Sea rotate counter-clockwise, forming a whirlpool in the form of an ellipse.
And when the seasonal winds and flood river Volga unleash the whirlpool, the centrifugal force of the whirlpool increases, due to which, on the northern coast of the Caspian Sea, the water level rises to 1 meter.

The average depth of the Caspian Sea is about 200 meters, on the northern coast about 5 meters, on the southern coast about 700 meters.
Due to this, in the north of the Caspian, the current speed rises from 1 to 10 km / h.
In the Caspian Sea, the peak seasonal increase in water levels is observed in June-August and coincides with the season of winds, and the flood of the Volga River.
During the drought over the Volga river basin, the level of the Caspian Sea does not increase.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/06.png
http://goo.gl/47tXq2

During the season of the western winds, the current velocity along the Murmansk coast of the Barents Sea rises to 5 km / h, due to which the seasonal rise in the water level reaches 0.5 meters.
The maximum level values ​​are observed in October-November minimum in April-May.
http://proznania.ru/?page_id=2353

In the Bay of Bengal in the season of monsoon winds, the whirlpool speed rises to 10 km / h, due to which, the seasonal rise in water level reaches 1.2 meters.
http://www.aziya-tur.ru/bengal%27skii-zaliv.php

Seasonal changes in the level of the Sea of ​​Okhotsk are 0.2-0.5 m. The highest levels are observed in November-January, the smallest in March-April.
http://parusa.narod.ru/bib/books/fareast/1406-1.htm

Seasonal increase in the level of the Black Sea (up to 40 cm) is most pronounced in the southeastern part of the sea, where in summer the angular velocity of the currents reaches a maximum value.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/07.html

The assumption that the cause of seasonal water level rise may be atmospheric pressure, river runoff, temperature difference and water salinity does not stand up to criticism, these factors can increase the water level by several cm, but not more.
Cyclones moving above the surfЭЭace of the sea from west to east at a speed of up to 40 km / h can increase sea level for several days by untwisting the whirlpool.
http://www.okeanavt.ru/tainiokeana/1066mifosrednemurovne.html
The presented theory can be easily verified by the connection between the velocity of currents aоnd the sea level and the oceans.
(Drawing on a map of depths and currents, seas and oceans).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cycle_of_sea_level_height
https://research.csiro.au/slrwavescoast/sea-level/sea-level-change/
Please show me the coast, the sea, the lake, the ocean, where the current traffic is fast, and the sea level does not rise.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 23/09/2018 10:29:52
Please show me the coast, the sea, the lake, the ocean, where the current traffic is fast, and the sea level does not rise.

Why?
What would it achieve?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 14/06/2019 11:06:55
If during the flood in St. Petersburg, to direct the flow of the Neva River against the flow of waters of the Gulf of Finland, by building canals and floodgates, you can significantly reduce the increase in water levels on the east coast of the Gulf of Finland.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 19/06/2019 11:43:58
The height of the floods depends not only on the wind speed, but also on the speed of rotation of the cycle, due to which centrifugal surge and abnormally high tides are formed.
For this reason, on different coasts with the same wind speed, the height of floods varies.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/06/2019 18:12:25
As we can see,
Royal "we"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 25/06/2019 11:41:47
The height of the floods depends not so much on the speed and direction of the wind, but on the speed of rotation of the rotation, due to which centrifugal surge and abnormally high tides are formed.
For this reason, on different coasts with the same wind speed, the height of floods varies.
A storm surge of great height in the Northern Dvina River may also form under the influence of the north wind.
http://tapemark.narod.ru/more/22.png
https://vestnik5.geogr.msu.ru/jour/article/view/11?locale=ru_RU
If, during a storm, flood rivers that flow into the bay do not create a whirlpool, or a gale wind moves against the whirlwind, then flooding does not form and is easy to predict.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: The Spoon on 25/06/2019 12:09:34
The height of the floods depends not so much on the speed and direction of the wind, but on the speed of rotation of the rotation, due to which centrifugal surge and abnormally high tides are formed.
For this reason, on different coasts with the same wind speed, the height of floods varies.
This is utter nonsense. Why post it? Do you you enjoy being exposed as a fool?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 08/07/2019 18:48:22
Centrifugal tide - water invisible congestion.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_jam
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/07/2019 19:09:13
Centrifugal tide - water invisible congestion.
Word salad.
Would you like to try again, but, for example, with verbs?
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 08/07/2019 21:10:58
Centrifugal tide - water invisible congestion.
Word salad.
Would you like to try again, but, for example, with verbs?
The centrifugal tide is an invisible water block at the mouth of the river.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/07/2019 21:44:17
Well, that's progress- at least I can parse it.

Now, you just need to explain what you think it means.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 28/07/2019 14:18:17
The reason for the lowering of the water level in the Gulf of Finland before the flood is the formation of a tidal hump in the throat of the Gulf of Finland.

In St. Petersburg, small floods occur during the calm and with the east wind.
Title: Re: What is the mechanism for the formation of floods?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/07/2019 20:38:15
If the storm wind moves in the direction of the current for several days, then the speed of the current increases several times.

The higher the storm waves, the higher the windage of the waves and the angle of attack of the wind.