# Naked Science Forum

## On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: Yahya A.Sharif on 28/03/2019 06:54:22

Title: Gravity is limited to a range extendable with the speed of light c
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 28/03/2019 06:54:22
In calculating escape velocity from a mass gravity force of this mass at infinity is considered to be zero an object has specific amount of kinetic energy starts with the escape velocity from mass and stops at infinity
The potential energy is calculated from infinity at which force is equals zero

If gravitational force at infinity equals zero then we have a real number "zero" assigned to unreachable quantity "infinity" making it reachable but in fact infinity is unreachable so we cant assign a zero quantity of gravity for an unreal number quantity which is infinite space. The gravitational field is real and it has an end equals zero there should be an end for infinite space, however there is not an end for infinite space making gravity reaches zero while space extends to infinity.

Also mathematically we can't assign an infinite value distance to the gravity equation resulting in zero value for gravity.

Even though in reality you can't reach infinity  it could be a thought experiment that is if gravity effects decreases continuously we have a limit for that decrement which is zero effect then gravity effect in fact has a limit but space doesn't so what happens at that limit when gravity force equals zero space would still be increasing.

For each mass it has a real number range of gravity this range is increasing continuously with the speed of light c , beyond that its gravitational force doesn't exist and it is still spreading out and making curvature to space

Mass curvature for space is a process it starts at the existence of mass continues with the speed of light c and will never reach an end. You cant start a process and have its effect at infinite distances instantly, this process started as an event mass existence and has its effect gradually spreading out with speed of light c.Mass effect cant reach infinity instantly.

The universe started at a moment in the past and all masses existed at a moment. Infinity doesn't have a limit it is continuous if mass bend continuous space-time, an event mass existence" can't start and have its effect at infinite distance no limits" space can't be bent infinitely because infinity is unreachable mass can't bend a point in space at infinite distance since this point can't be reached.
There are places in space still unbent that prove gravity has a range extendable gradually with the speed of light c.

Mathematical explanation:
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=76598.0

Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 07:14:50
Gravity is induced electrostatic attraction force between neutrally charges matters. Similar to sexual attraction among married couples.

Gravity is coexisting with matters, gravity don't spread.

Space is infinite, matter and energy are conserved but infinite amount.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 28/03/2019 07:20:04
Gravity is induced electrostatic attraction force between neutrally charges matters. Similar to sexual attraction among married couples.

Gravity is coexisting with matters, gravity don't spread.

Space is infinite, matter and energy are conserved but infinite amount.
Then my argument shows contradiction between space being infinite and and gravity being infinite
When gravity equals zero what happens to space at that point does it spread ? then we would have another infinity at which gravity doesn't equal zero.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: mad aetherist on 28/03/2019 07:24:11
If gravitational force at infinity equals zero then we have a real number "zero" assigned to unreachable quantity "infinity" making it reachable.
The gravitational field is real and it has an end equals zero there should be an end for infinite space.
or gravity extends and still extends without bound and there still places in space that some gravity of  a specific mass didn't reach yet
I believe that infinity is unreachable because according to the existence of the universe mass existed at a specific moment and spread its gravity and still spreading its gravity trying to reach infinity.
My question is:
What is the nature of gravity?Spread at a moment and still spreading to infinity or already a available at infinity if it is already available at infinity then infinity should be reachable , because it would be something available at a point "infinity" and this point should exist "reachable".
Gravity is due to the acceleration of aether into mass where aether is annihilated. The annihilation of aether creates a pulse in the acceleration of the aether, the pulse travelling outwards at over 20 billon c kmps.
The pulse reaches to infinity.
However the creation & annihilation of aether happens in an infinite number of cosmic cells, each say 200 million light years across. Hencely a pulse is unlikely to last long, having to run  the gauntlet of each cell along the way.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 07:29:16
Gravity is induced electrostatic attraction force between neutrally charges matters. Similar to sexual attraction among married couples.

Gravity is coexisting with matters, gravity don't spread.

Space is infinite, matter and energy are conserved but infinite amount.
Then my argument shows contradiction between space being infinite and and gravity being infinite
When gravity equals zero what happens to space at that point does it spread ? then we would have another infinity at which gravity doesn't equal zero.
Infinite space cannot spread or expend. Stars are everywhere, gravity is coexisting with every matter. Any matter has gravity acting at it all the time.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 28/03/2019 07:32:32
It's only if gravity still spreading into space and didn't reach a point for which it would equal zero and still spreading.
for each mass it has a real number range of gravity, beyond that its gravitational force doesn't exist perhaps it is still making curvature to space
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 07:46:34
Gravity is attraction force between matters. There is no gravity between space and matter.

Only matter can be curve or distort, not space.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 28/03/2019 07:48:43
There is no gravity between space and matter.
I didn't say that.I said mass still curving space and it continues.
Also mathematically we can't assign an infinite value "distance" to the gravitational equation so that the equation results in zero value for gravity.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 07:59:37
There is no gravity between space and matter.
I didn't say that.I said mass still curving space and it continues.
Also mathematically we can't assign an infinite value to the gravity equation and there isn't a derivative way to solve the equation resulting in zero value for infinity.

How mass curves space? What is the mechanism?
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 08:12:00
Scientists say space tells matter how to move, matter tells space how to curve. Sounds pretty cool?

What is the precise mechanism? Word salad?

Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 08:35:29
Rational thinking is the best tool we can have.

Try to understand precise mechanism of any theory first, before you accept it as true.

No matter who's theory, how famous it is. Without understood the precise mechanism, read and believe, follow and believe, go around and show off, not wise.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 28/03/2019 08:52:55
There is no gravity between space and matter.
I didn't say that.I said mass still curving space and it continues.
Also mathematically we can't assign an infinite value to the gravity equation and there isn't a derivative way to solve the equation resulting in zero value for infinity.

How mass curves space? What is the mechanism?
That is another subject.What I claim is according to my argument gravity doesn't exist at some distance.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 08:58:46
Is matter existing at infinite far away space?

If so, that matter carries gravity with it, from all matters around.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Kryptid on 28/03/2019 16:29:06
How are you going to reach a point in space an infinite distance away when your spaceship is limited to a finite speed?

Try to understand precise mechanism of any theory first, before you accept it as true.

I've already said this before, but you don't have to understand the precise mechanism behind a theory in order to have a good idea that the theory is correct. Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace came up with the theory of evolution even though they didn't know the precise mechanism behind genetic inheritance (DNA had not been discovered yet), yet the evidence from morphology and biogeography showed strong support for the theory.

But knowing you, you're probably an evolution denier too.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 28/03/2019 17:32:58
The process of space curvature can't happen at an instance it started and continues to happen by spreading the speed of spread might be speed of light.

Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: seeker3 on 28/03/2019 18:18:02
The process of space curvature can't happen at an instance it started and continues to happen by spreading the speed of spread might be speed of light.

What is space curvature? Only moving matter has speed. Science is exactly, not might be.

You must read and think to learn the truth. You obviously can think, read some basic physics first.

Learn what is matter, energy, motion, force, time. Make up your own mind. Don't read and believe, fake news is everywhere.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Kryptid on 28/03/2019 20:03:39

Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/03/2019 18:47:44

Do you realise you are up against a  three man tag team?
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Kryptid on 29/03/2019 20:07:11
Do you realise you are up against a  three man tag team?

I know my words will probably fall on deaf ears, but I can't help but try sometimes.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: evan_au on 30/03/2019 04:33:55
Quote from: OP
If gravitational force at infinity equals zero then we have a real number "zero" assigned to unreachable quantity "infinity" making it reachable.
I think we are mixing up two things here, because the units are omitted. You could read this as:
1) According to Newton: If you could travel an infinite distance from a given mass, then the gravitational attraction of that mass would be zero.
2) According to Einstein: The singularity at the center of a black hole has infinite density. According to Newton: If you could travel zero distance from such a singularity, the gravitational attraction would be infinite.

There are some problems with both views:
1a) According to Einstein (and confirmed by LIGO), gravitational forces travel at the speed of light. The theory of Inflation suggests that there are some parts of space that are beyond the gravitational influence of the Sun.
1b) According to Einstein: There is no gravitational force, but mass curves space time. Rephrased, (1) would say:  If you could travel an infinite distance from a given mass, then the curvature of space time due to that mass would be zero.
2a) Quantum theory says that fuzzy things happen on very small length scales and timescales and steep gravitational gradients. So you probably cant really measure zero distance.
2b) The singularity is hidden behind an event horizon, and nobody really knows what goes on in that twisted space time

No matter how far you are from a given mass, space time is curved everywhere due to the mass of the rest of the universe. So you can never say that the effects of gravity are zero.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 30/03/2019 05:34:20
space time is curved everywhere due to the mass of the rest of the universe. So you can never say that the effects of gravity are zero.
So in reality you can't reach  an infinite space nor a zero effect .There is a misconception here infinity is not a real number so it is not possible to say if you travel infinity distance gravity effect is zero also according to the gravitational equation you can't substitute infinite distance, even though in reality you can't reach infinity  it could be a thought experiment that is if gravity effects decreases continuously we have a limit for that decrement which is zero effect then gravity effect in fact has a limit but space doesn't so what happens at that limit when gravity force equals zero space would still be increasing.
second the universe started at a moment in the past and all masses existed at a moment. infinity doesn't have a limit it is continuous if mass bend continuous space you can't start an event "mass existence" and have its effect at infinite distance"no limits" space can't be bent infinitely because infinity is unreachable mass can't bend a point in space at infinite distance since this point can't be reached.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 30/03/2019 17:31:40
I was able to easily falsify the existing fact.
That's logically impossible.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: CPT ArkAngel on 31/03/2019 03:56:16
In principle, gravity has an infinite reach. In reality, gravity reach is limited by the speed of light. The universe is probably finite and the global solution is also probably finite and quantized. The most important thing about a physics theory is that it is based on real assumptions or at least on better approximations than prior assumptions.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 31/03/2019 05:44:41
In principle, gravity has an infinite reach.
The universe is probably finite
Space is a container for every universe that might exist so it's infinite , if the universe is finite then gravity is finite .Finite universe results in finite gravity.
Title: Re: is Infinity reachable ?
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 01/04/2019 04:58:25
How mass curves space? What is the mechanism?