Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 17:23:55

Title: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 17:23:55
The BH photo that is not a photo and is fake ass chit ,  not real and wouldn't even be how a BH would be factual observed .

Quite clearly if we could observer a BH it would be observed something like


* bh1.jpg (8.47 kB . 665x323 - viewed 897 times)

Without a circular ''flat spot'' in the centre because of the nature of light  and the fact that

566d61eafc62aad5a2aaf704d0c923f5.gif is isotropic and the ''flat spot'' would also have spectral emissions from E=mc² of the inflowing energy and particles colliding with the BHs permeability .

Fake sh1t , computer sim garbage , not a real photo , science thinks we are all stupid and will believe all their bs they preach to us .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 17:36:26
If they're going to do fake ass pics you'd think they'd at least have the physics right so it's believable . 


* bh2.jpg (15.98 kB . 665x323 - viewed 799 times)


Oh my ….tut tut ,  ::)

added- I wonder if the sun is the nearer point of a bh …..A flat sun ...

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/04/2019 17:58:30
science thinks we are all stupid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 18:59:03
science thinks we are all stupid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we
we
[wiː]

PRONOUN
used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered together.

You are strange Mr C .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 20:54:19
I was right. You came back.

Fake sh1t , computer sim garbage , not a real photo

So it turns out that you are a conspiracy theorist after all, huh?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 20:58:28
I was right. You came back.

Fake sh1t , computer sim garbage , not a real photo

So it turns out that you are a conspiracy theorist after all, huh?
Yes you was right I came back . I'm more like the bs police rather than a conspiracy theorist .   I can do conspiracy theories but I'd probably hit some nails on the heads so best not .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 21:11:09
I'm more like the bs police rather than a conspiracy theorist .

The Event Horizon Telescope project that imaged M87 involved scientists from Chile, the United States, Spain and Mexico. So what you are talking about is deception on a global level. That is absolutely a conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 21:14:26
I'm more like the bs police rather than a conspiracy theorist .

The Event Horizon Telescope project that imaged M87 involved scientists from Chile, the United States, Spain and Mexico. So what you are talking about is deception on a global level. That is absolutely a conspiracy theory.
Well whoever it concerns it is still fake as per normal of science with their illusory superiority .  They must think people are really stupid or something , that's no more of a photo than I'm a tree .

It's quite odd how science fake stuff stands but people can't have their own theories etc . 
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 21:17:24
Well whoever it concerns it is still fake as per normal of science with their illusory superiority .  They must think people are really stupid or something , that's no more of a photo than I'm a tree .

Okay, so what evidence can you give us that there was a global conspiracy to fake the image of a black hole? And no, "It doesn't look like I think a black hole should look" is not evidence. I'm asking for actual evidence, such as testimony from whistle-blowers or leaked documents that reveal the deception.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 21:22:05
Well whoever it concerns it is still fake as per normal of science with their illusory superiority .  They must think people are really stupid or something , that's no more of a photo than I'm a tree .

Okay, so what evidence can you give us that there was a global conspiracy to fake the image of a black hole? And no, "It doesn't look like I think a black hole should look" is not evidence. I'm asking for actual evidence, such as testimony from whistle-blowers or leaked documents that reveal the deception.
There doesn't need to be any whistle blowers when the physics of the picture does not work ,  there would never be the ''flat spot'' , a ''tube'' of darkness emitted all the way to the telescope , additionally the young lady Katie does slip up in interview .


Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 21:25:34
There doesn't need to be any whistle blowers when the physics of the picture does not work ,

Without any actual evidence to offer in support of the conspiracy claim, the more rational interpretation of the black hole photo is that it is genuine and that you are the one with the physics misunderstandings.

I'm guessing that LIGO and VIRGO's detection of colliding black holes was part of some global conspiracy as well?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 21:34:01
There doesn't need to be any whistle blowers when the physics of the picture does not work ,

Without any actual evidence to offer in support of the conspiracy claim, the more rational interpretation of the black hole photo is that it is genuine and that you are the one with the physics misunderstandings.

I'm guessing that LIGO and VIRGO's detection of colliding black holes was part of some global conspiracy as well?

Ligo is possible , virgo not heard of .

The physics is the evidence , they can't see BH's to start with so where do you point your telescopes ?

.If there was spectral emissions of visible light like that around Bh's we'd see them and be able to take a real picture .

There would be no flat spot .

All evidence , ask them , ask them why the flat spot ?


Motive - more money in research to keep an easy life .

They messed up , not a single one of their team as actually observed that picture for real as a direct observation .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 21:38:31
The physics is the evidence

Replace the word "the" in that sentence with "my view of" and it would be accurate. You continually assert how your physics is different from the scientific community's physics. In which case, this photograph is evidence that you don't understand how real physics works.

Get back to us when you have actual evidence of a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 21:41:06
The physics is the evidence

Replace the word "the" in that sentence with "my view of" and it would be accurate. You continually assert how your physics is different from the scientific community's physics. In which case, this photograph is evidence that you don't understand how real physics works.

Get back to us when you have actual evidence of a conspiracy.
Arr got it not , you are also one of them and defend the lies .  If you know physics you know very well the nature of light and no very well where they have a flat spot would be visible light like the rest of the image ,  they have a cut out as if there is no acting gravity of the flat spot , they messed up .

The flat spot would have an inflow of energy just like they have shown around it .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 21:45:53
Arr got it not , you are also one of them

Oh no, Mr. Paranoid found me out! I guess UPS is working for the global elites!

If you know physics you know very well the nature of light and no very well where they have a flat spot would be visible light like the rest of the image ,  they have a cut out as if there is no acting gravity of the flat spot , they messed up .

Or you're the one who doesn't understand how light works and the rest of the scientific community is right.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 21:51:30
Arr got it not , you are also one of them

Oh no, Mr. Paranoid found me out! I guess UPS is working for the global elites!

If you know physics you know very well the nature of light and no very well where they have a flat spot would be visible light like the rest of the image ,  they have a cut out as if there is no acting gravity of the flat spot , they messed up .

Or you're the one who doesn't understand how light works and the rest of the scientific community is right.
I understand how light works especially on a 3d note .

 [ Invalid Attachment ]

The one on the right is not emitting light from the dark centre .

A fake BH pic mistake .





Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 21:55:31
I understand how light works especially on a 3d note .

I doubt it, especially since I have no problem at all understanding why the black hole photograph looks the way it does and without violating any laws of physics at that.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 22:01:24
I understand how light works especially on a 3d note .

I doubt it, especially since I have no problem at all understanding why the black hole photograph looks the way it does and without violating any laws of physics at that.
According to that photo the light being detected is emitted tubular , additionally in the centre there is no matter as around the edge .  The picture as so many flaws its not even a good fake .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 22:04:13
According to that photo the light being detected is emitted tubular

Well it's coming from a disk-shaped structure, so of course that's how it's going to look.

additionally in the centre there is no matter as around the edge

Of course there isn't, because that's where the black hole is.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 22:08:02
According to that photo the light being detected is emitted tubular

Well it's coming from a disk-shaped structure, so of course that's how it's going to look.

additionally in the centre there is no matter as around the edge

Of course there isn't, because that's where the black hole is.
No , according to that the BH  has no gravity the face you are observing . it is not ''sucking''

 [ Invalid Attachment ]



Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 22:11:07
No , according to that the BH  has no gravity the face you are observing . it is not ''sucking''

The enormous majority of matter being ingested by the hole is coming in from the sides (from an accretion disk), so any matter immediately above and below the hole would be much more diffuse and thus either much dimmer than the disk or not visible at all.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 22:18:12
No , according to that the BH  has no gravity the face you are observing . it is not ''sucking''

The enormous majority of matter being ingested by the hole is coming in from the sides (from an accretion disk), so any matter immediately above and below the hole would be much more diffuse and thus either much dimmer than the disk or not visible at all.
Bs, now you've just invented an equator on a sphere , where the dark you are looking at would be nearer to you .  A BH is not a flat disk or like a galaxy .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 22:22:07
Bs, now you've just invented an equator on a sphere

I didn't invent anything. The accretion disk an observed phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disk

A BH is not a flat disk or like a galaxy .

I never said that the black hole was flat. It's the accretion disk that is flat (relatively speaking).
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 22:29:01
Bs, now you've just invented an equator on a sphere

I didn't invent anything. The accretion disk an observed phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disk

A BH is not a flat disk or like a galaxy .

I never said that the black hole was flat. It's the accretion disk that is flat (relatively speaking).
So let me get this straight , a Bh which we can not see somehow by magic science monitored and kept it still while they recorded information over heck knows how many light year and it just happened to be positioned perfectly with a ''north'' or ''south'' side facing the camera to give you a perfect picture of the disk ?

Additionally it wasn't really done on computer and a simulation produced from inputted data ?

It's not a real picture and you know it .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ? I could of d
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 22:32:31
P.s I bet that fake chit cost a fortune to do as well ?



Faraday did science , Tesla did science , I have no idea what they are doing but that isn't science . I could of drawn that on ms paint and saved them a fortune , or the tax payer should I say ,hmm,  hush hush .




Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 22:37:37
So let me get this straight , a Bh which we can not see

We can't see the black hole itself, but we can see the accretion disk around it and therefore know where it is.

and kept it still

M87 is over 50 million light-years away. The further away something is, the less it seems to move in your field of view. So it would be practically stationary already from our vantage point.

and it just happened to be positioned perfectly with a ''north'' or ''south'' side facing the camera to give you a perfect picture of the disk ?

It actually is tilted slightly from our perspective. The bright part of the ring reveals this, because that brightening is caused by a Doppler shift from the part of the disk that is moving towards us.

It's not a real picture and you know it .

I'm not a paranoiac so I have to disagree.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 22:42:17
I'm not a paranoiac so I have to disagree.

It's not a direct picture , you do know that therefore you know its not a real photo like they are proclaiming .  It is somewhat computer generated imagery from an algorithm that probably would of produced the same picture even if you inputted a Barry Manilow record .

Additionally it is pointless research , not factual , lets make a real BH and then take a picture with a camera instead .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 22:47:11
It's not a direct picture , you do know that therefore you know its not a real photo like they are proclaiming .

Then images taken with a webcam are not real photos either, since the electrical impulses coming from the camera have to be reconstructed by the computer using an algorithm.

that probably would of produced the same picture even if you inputted a Barry Manilow record .

Please support this insane assertion with some evidence.

Additionally it is pointless research , not factual

It's very important, since it allows us to test predictions of existing physics models.

lets make a real BH and then take a picture with a camera instead .

It's going to be a very long time before we can do that.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 12/04/2019 22:51:20
It's going to be a very long time before we can do that.
You'd think ,  I know how to make water go super atomic ,  you might think I make things up and my maths is  malarkey , but my simple math is designed for experiments left as variables because all my experiments adjust .

No one listens to me lol , I also have a plasma device by adjusting a present device .

Not the sort of experiments I can do at home ...I know how to curve space time for crying out loud and it's a joke that bs photos are considered good science when good experiments are not .



Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 22:59:58
You'd think ,  I know how to make water go super atomic

What does that even mean?

you might think I make things up and my maths is  malarkey

You do and it is. Your ideas aren't falsifiable (and therefore not scientific) because you either claim that any such falsifications are mistaken (as in the case with your equation miscalculating the energy released when burning hydrogen) or that there is a conspiracy afoot (as in this thread).
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Lance Canham on 12/04/2019 23:16:55
Quote from: Thebox on Today at 22:01:24According to that photo the light being detected is emitted tubularWell it's coming from a disk-shaped structure, so of course that's how it's going to look.Quote from: Thebox on Today at 22:01:24additionally in the centre there is no matter as around the edgeOf course there isn't, because that's where the black hole is.No , according to that the BH  has no gravity the face you are observing . it is not ''sucking''  mm.jpg (11.03 kB . 334x225 - viewed 40 times)

Im not having an issue with the pic but I am amazed that we just happened to view from directly above and no other angle. Odds are we should have been at any random angle, instead we just got lucky and looked at it from above.

The box's issue probably arises from the thought it might look like this https://www.wired.com/2014/10/astrophysics-interstellar-black-hole/   Either way I don't think its a hoax but I do think its odd we got lucky to view it from above or if they all end up looking like this (the real pic) then I don't understand something and maybe we all don't That said its not a conspiracy. Accept the pic for what it is and change what you think if it won't fit - if it don't fit its not right



Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: The Spoon on 12/04/2019 23:45:45
Pretty obvious The box is trolling to wind people up. These sort of threads and posters really need to be put in a quarantine thread out of the main area.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/04/2019 23:53:24
additionally the young lady Katie does slip up in interview .
In among all the other  sh1t here, can I just point out that claims like that are probably actionable in law.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/04/2019 23:54:07
Pretty obvious The box is trolling to wind people up. These sort of threads and posters really need to be put in a quarantine thread out of the main area.
We have a "that can't be true" area...
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 12/04/2019 23:57:35
In among all the other  sh1t here, can I just point out that claims like that are probably actionable in law.

I find it pretty insulting, given all of the hard work that went into this project.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 02:19:17
additionally the young lady Katie does slip up in interview .
In among all the other  sh1t here, can I just point out that claims like that are probably actionable in law.
No it is not , I can say whatever opinion I wish , its called the freedom of speech .  You should learn some law, I'm presently in study of it .  You'd be surprised what I've learnt already about law . She could try a civil case if she'd like , then I'd request the actual photo image of the BH it is claimed to be . 
She'd lose ...

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 02:20:45
Pretty obvious The box is trolling to wind people up. These sort of threads and posters really need to be put in a quarantine thread out of the main area.
You are just another defender , probably work for the department of imaginary concept .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 02:22:37
In among all the other  sh1t here, can I just point out that claims like that are probably actionable in law.

I find it pretty insulting, given all of the hard work that went into this project.
I could of done that image in about ten minutes on blender 3d , hard work or not it is still meaningless .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 02:23:28
Pretty obvious The box is trolling to wind people up. These sort of threads and posters really need to be put in a quarantine thread out of the main area.
We have a "that can't be true" area...
Yes good idea, put that BH fake pic there .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 02:43:51
You plan on showing us evidence that the picture is fake any time soon?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 02:48:07
You plan on showing us evidence that the picture is fake any time soon?
Do you plan on showing us any evidence that the picture is real ?

They always claim you have no evidence when the point is , neither do them .

Show me the camera they took the photo with ? You can't can you .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 03:04:31

''Stronger proof for black holes'' ?  Really ?  Don't you mean factual proof ?

added- ''We didn't know we were going to get a ring of light'' , then how the hell did you point your telescope when a BH is invisible ? Can't be seen ?

The female version of Mr Cox , conditioning ...


Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 03:14:39
Do you plan on showing us any evidence that the picture is real ?

This is like telling me to disprove a conspiracy theory. You can't do that. Conspiracy theories can't be disproved. So the burden of proof is on you, as the conspiracy theorist, to provide evidence that the image is faked. You don't start off with the assumption that everything shown to the world by scientists is faked until proven real. That leads to madness.

They always claim you have no evidence when the point is , neither do them .

You mean "they", not "them". And what would you even accept as evidence that the image is real? If they showed you piles of data on a computer, you'd just say that you have no idea what it meant (because you don't even understand basic algebra), so you wouldn't accept that as evidence either.

Show me the camera they took the photo with ? You can't can you .

I can show you all of the "cameras".

The South Pole Telescope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pole_Telescope#/media/File:South_pole_telescope_nov2009.jpg

The Atacama Large Millimeter Array: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama_Large_Millimeter_Array#/media/File:ALMA_Antennas_on_Chajnantor.jpg

The Atacama Pathfinder Experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama_Pathfinder_Experiment#/media/File:Phot-24a-06.jpg

The Heinrich Hertz Submillimeter Telescope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hertz_Submillimeter_Telescope#/media/File:SMT_1.png

The IRAM 30 m Telescope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRAM_30m_telescope#/media/File:Observatorio_IRAM_Pico_Veleta.jpg

The Large Millimeter Telescope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Millimeter_Telescope#/media/File:GTM_imagen.JPG

The Submillimeter Array: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submillimeter_Array#/media/File:Smithsonian_Submillimeter_Array.jpg
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 03:19:20
And what would you even accept as evidence that the image is real?
I'd accept a real photo , not a data generated ''photo'' from algorithms .

1) You can't see Bh's

2) A bh does not emit visible light

3) outside a black hole does not produce visible light

The photo is a visible wavelength

A visible wavelength for something that has no visible wavelength is obviously fake .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 03:23:30
I'd except a real photo , not a data generated photo from algorithms .

So in other words, you were telling me to provide evidence that the image of M87* is real when you knew in advance that no level of evidence would be sufficient to suit you. This is called being "closed-minded".

1) You can't see Bh's

2) A bh does not emit visible light

3) outside a black hole does not produce visible light

The photo is a visible wavelength

A visible wavelength for something that has no visible wavelength is obviously fake .

Which further demonstrates that you don't understand the physics of black holes. The light is not from the black hole, it is from the accretion disk.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 03:30:38
I'd except a real photo , not a data generated photo from algorithms .

So in other words, you were telling me to provide evidence that the image of M87* is real when you knew in advance that no level of evidence would be sufficient to suit you. This is called being "closed-minded".

1) You can't see Bh's

2) A bh does not emit visible light

3) outside a black hole does not produce visible light

The photo is a visible wavelength

A visible wavelength for something that has no visible wavelength is obviously fake .

Which further demonstrates that you don't understand the physics of black holes. The light is not from the black hole, it is from the accretion disk.


That's bs ,  it's computer generated association  from white noise .



Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 03:33:14
 ''If they showed you piles of data on a computer, you'd just say that you have no idea what it meant (because you don't even understand basic algebra), so you wouldn't accept that as evidence either.''

So you admit its not a photo ?


It's a pile of white noise data and the algorithm creates the image that is required .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 03:35:10
That's bs ,  it's computer generated association  from white noise .

Please support this claim with evidence.

So you admit its not a photo ?

Every single image you see on your computer screen, photograph or not, has data behind it. Same thing here. It's not a photograph using a handheld camera, but it's a photograph in the sense that it's an image taken of an object in the real world.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 03:39:15
That's bs ,  it's computer generated association  from white noise .

Please support this claim with evidence.

So you admit its not a photo ?

Every single image you see on your computer screen, photograph or not, has data behind it. Same thing here. It's not a photograph using a handheld camera, but it's a photograph in the sense that it's an image taken of an object in the real world.

So you admit its not a real photo  and I have supported my claim with her own explanation of the process .

You can try and dress it as much as you like but it won't change the fact that the image is not  a photo of a BH .

Fake science to create more funds into fake science . 


Same fake chit with CERN .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 03:43:34
So you admit its not a real photo

I never said that.

I have supported my claim with her own explanation of the process .

How so?

Fake science to create more funds into fake science . 

Repetition of a claim is not evidence that the claim is correct.

Quote
Same fake chit with CERN .

More claims of conspiracy...
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 03:47:35
So you admit its not a real photo

I never said that.

I have supported my claim with her own explanation of the process .

How so?

Fake science to create more funds into fake science . 

Repetition of a claim is not evidence that the claim is correct.

Quote
Same fake chit with CERN .

More claims of conspiracy...

How so ?  Because her process isn't taking a picture its compiling a load of random data and the algorithm makes patterns/shapes out of the data . 

And its not conspiracy theory , CERN and this has no other  use but that of the practitioner . It is subjective , naïve  and a waste of money .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 03:51:16
random data

This is the part I'm talking about. Where do you get the idea that this data is random?

And its not conspiracy theory , CERN and this has no other  use but that of the practitioner . It is subjective , naïve  and a waste of money .

Claiming that a large group of people are swindling the world at large is a conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 03:58:30
random data

This is the part I'm talking about. Where do you get the idea that this data is random?

And its not conspiracy theory , CERN and this has no other  use but that of the practitioner . It is subjective , naïve  and a waste of money .

I've just took the same picture , it doesn't matter what data I monitor , the program I use can always pick out the redshift around my lens.  Look a BH ….


* bh4.jpg (13.96 kB . 426x238 - viewed 540 times)

sum dum guys






Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 03:59:59
So you can't support the claim that the data taken by the EHT is random.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:06:20
So you can't support the claim that the data taken by the EHT is random.
Of course it's random ., several telescopes recording white noise and the program identifies comparisons and forms a shape and image , the image is always going to be round because the telescope is round, the frequency of light entering the telescope will be a variate , the program is seeing the telescope lens . round.

Its not a BH , congrats you've took a picture of the telescope lens .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:10:43
the image is always going to be round because the telescope is round

I guess you've never seen pictures of nebulas and gas clouds taken by telescopes, huh?

white noise

Who said the telescopes are recording white noise?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:13:28
the image is always going to be round because the telescope is round

I guess you've never seen pictures of nebulas and gas clouds taken by telescopes, huh?

white noise

Who said the telescopes are recording white noise?
She did more or less in her explanation video .  She said the earth is spinning and the image entering the telescope is constantly changing ,  no constant , white noise . (more or less)

Nebulas produce visible light . can see them .

Didn't you know Hubble redshift is redshifted  light entering the telescope ?  Not distant bodies receding ?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:19:00
She said the earth is spinning and the image entering the telescope is constantly changing ,  no constant , white noise

If you think "constantly changing" is the same as "white noise" than that's another thing you've demonstrated that you don't understand. White noise is random. It's devoid of useful information. Something that is constantly changing in a regular way is not random (as would be the case for the EHT).

Nebulas produce visible light . can see them .

So does the accretion disk around a black hole.

Didn't you know Hubble redshift is redshifted  light entering the telescope ?  Not distant bodies receding ?

Red herring.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:22:16
She said the earth is spinning and the image entering the telescope is constantly changing ,  no constant , white noise

If you think "constantly changing" is the same as "white noise" than that's another thing you've demonstrated that you don't understand. White noise is random. It's devoid of useful information. Something that is constantly changing in a regular way is not random (as would be the case for the EHT).

Nebulas produce visible light . can see them .

So does the accretion disk around a black hole.

Didn't you know Hubble redshift is redshifted  light entering the telescope ?  Not distant bodies receding ?

Red herring.
No , the accretion disk does not produce visible light or you could take a real photo .

And ...whoops hubble ,
I have told you all before that science is not all that and has lots of things wrong .


 [ Invalid Attachment ]

Just let me know when they are ready to do some real science .


Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:27:49
No , the accretion disk does not produce visible light or you could take a real photo .

So now you deny that super-heated plasma glows in the visible spectrum...

The reason why we can't take photographs of M87* with a conventional camera is the because the black hole and accretion disk have an angular diameter that is far too small. You wouldn't be able to see it that way. You might as well be arguing that a gnat on top of a mesa on the horizon must not reflect visible light because you can't take a picture of it with a handheld camera from your vantage point.

I have told you all before that science is not all that and has lots of things wrong .

Yes, you've said a lot of anti-scientific nonsense.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:33:06
No , the accretion disk does not produce visible light or you could take a real photo .

So now you deny that super-heated plasma glows in the visible spectrum...

The reason why we can't take photographs of M87* with a conventional camera is the because the black hole and accretion disk have an angular diameter that is far too small. You wouldn't be able to see it that way. You might as well be arguing that a gnat on top of a mesa on the horizon must not reflect visible light because you can't take a picture of it with a handheld camera from your vantage point.

I have told you all before that science is not all that and has lots of things wrong .

Yes, you've said a lot of anti-scientific nonsense.
Actually , scientific investigation revealing their nonsense  and money scams .

A secret society of scientists , them , they , it .  No more accepting their bs .

I've just destroyed an expanding universe , you have no evidence at all now I've just destroyed Hubble , I was going to leave that be , but as science treats me so bad , I intend to make them look stupid as they are .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:35:54
Actually , scientific investigation revealing their nonsense  and money scams .

A secret society of scientists , them , they , it .  No more accepting their bs .

I've just destroyed an expanding universe , you have no evidence at all now I've just destroyed Hubble , I was going to leave that be , but as science treats me so bad , I intend to make them look stupid as they are .

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:38:09
Actually , scientific investigation revealing their nonsense  and money scams .

A secret society of scientists , them , they , it .  No more accepting their bs .

I've just destroyed an expanding universe , you have no evidence at all now I've just destroyed Hubble , I was going to leave that be , but as science treats me so bad , I intend to make them look stupid as they are .

Spoken like a true conspiracy theorist.
Spoken like a true scientist who doesn't do bs .  The redshift of the Hubble observation is the telescope end , not the object end . 
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:40:01
who doesn't do bs

The irony is overwhelming.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:43:16
who doesn't do bs

The irony is overwhelming.
There is no BS in my science , I say what I observe not what I don't observe .

The inverse square law , by time light reaches the telescope it has naturally redshifted because of the inverse . 

Quite obvious really .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:45:57
You say this:

There is no BS in my science

Then you turn right around and contradict yourself by saying this:

The inverse square law , by time light reaches the telescope it has naturally redshifted because of the inverse .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:48:26
You say this:

There is no BS in my science

Then you turn right around and contradict yourself by saying this:

The inverse square law , by time light reaches the telescope it has naturally redshifted because of the inverse .
No , consider a distant object , the light from the object coming towards you weakens in magnitude and intensity because of the inverse .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:50:42
No , consider a distant object , the light from the object coming towards you weakens in magnitude and intensity because of the inverse .

You understand neither the inverse square law nor redshift.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:54:36
No , consider a distant object , the light from the object coming towards you weakens in magnitude and intensity because of the inverse .

You understand neither the inverse square law nor redshift.
Of course not, you would say that .  Did you know that the doppler redshift of distant bodies would be a sign of contraction , not expansion ? 
White light has to be compressed to form a wavelength not expanded

Understand , the magnitude of light hitting the hubble lens only has sufficient force to be red .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 04:55:40
Did you know that the doppler redshift of distant bodies would be a sign of contraction , not expansion ? 
White light has to be compressed to form a wavelength not expanded

Yep, sounds like your usual gibberish.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 04:58:24
Did you know that the doppler redshift of distant bodies would be a sign of contraction , not expansion ? 
White light has to be compressed to form a wavelength not expanded

Yep, sounds like your usual gibberish.
Red shift is the light hitting the lens on Hubble and compressing to see red .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 05:00:20
This post:

Red shift is the light hitting the lens on Hubble and compressing to see red .

And this post:

Did you know that the doppler redshift of distant bodies would be a sign of contraction , not expansion ? 
White light has to be compressed to form a wavelength not expanded

Contradict this post:

Spoken like a true scientist who doesn't do bs .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 05:03:41
This post:

Red shift is the light hitting the lens on Hubble and compressing to see red .

And this post:

Did you know that the doppler redshift of distant bodies would be a sign of contraction , not expansion ? 
White light has to be compressed to form a wavelength not expanded

Contradict this post:

Spoken like a true scientist who doesn't do bs .
No , I was getting the point across .  Hubble is not an actual observation , again the redshift is data driven .  The data of redshift is the telescope end , they have created observer affect .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 05:07:17
No , I was getting the point across .

The point that you've made is that you don't understand the physics of light.

Hubble is not an actual observation , again the redshift is data driven .  The data of redshift is the telescope end , they have created observer affect .

You keep contradicting your earlier assertion...
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 05:09:03
No , I was getting the point across .

The point that you've made is that you don't understand the physics of light.

Hubble is not an actual observation , again the redshift is data driven .  The data of redshift is the telescope end , they have created observer affect .

You keep contradicting your earlier assertion...
I don't . 

Redshifting light entering a telescope does not mean anything other than that. Hubble data is the light that's entered the telescope not the light of the object changing .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 05:12:15
And you wonder why other people don't take you seriously...
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 05:13:51
And you wonder why other people don't take you seriously...
Its 5.13 am here , I've not been asleep yet , sorry if my explanation is a bit crap , fuzzy brain lol .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 05:20:08
When somebody finally takes me serious , I'll get proper serious and we can go straight into experiments .  I have lots and lots of experiments to do .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 05:29:22
How about active camouflage ?  Somebody must want something to vanish .


added- energy weapon ? Plasma fusion ?

Big bangs ?

super subs ?

super boats ?

spaceship ?

Ray guns ? (sort of)

I can separate time from space if you'd like .  More use than simulated BH pics put it that way .








Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/04/2019 12:29:40
No , consider a distant object , the light from the object coming towards you weakens in magnitude and intensity because of the inverse .

You understand neither the inverse square law nor redshift.
It's a much longer list than that.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 12:58:19
No , consider a distant object , the light from the object coming towards you weakens in magnitude and intensity because of the inverse .

You understand neither the inverse square law nor redshift.
It's a much longer list than that.
You protect the science lies well , why do u do it  ?  How much they much ?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 19:46:16
How much they much ?

...what?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 19:59:24
How much they much ?

...what?
Brain function failure , how much they pay you suppose of said .  I was probably in connection mode to the server .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 20:04:48
how much they pay you

Do you seriously think that we are part of some conspiracy just because we call you out on your nonsense?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 20:18:43
how much they pay you

Do you seriously think that we are part of some conspiracy just because we call you out on your nonsense?
You don't actually call me out on nonsense though , you defend the science I've 100% shown to be at error .  Over the years forums have sent me a bit nutz,  my brain can't comprehend why you'd do that .  There is two options I have

1)You are all really stupid
2)You are intentionally covering up

I don't like to think option 1 so It's got to be 2. 


Tell a lie , option 3 - the world is ending so it doesn't matter
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 20:22:07
There's another option: that you are the one who is deluded while the scientific community is right. Occam's razor.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 20:27:36
There's another option: that you are the one who is deluded while the scientific community is right. Occam's razor.
The perfect coverup , everyone would believe the majority every time over an individual . Already written to program people as such . 
Clever but I see through it , , probably Masons or similar .

(ΔS=ΔU)≠Δt
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Lance Canham on 13/04/2019 20:43:44
You say this:Quote from: Thebox on Today at 04:43:16There is no BS in my science Then you turn right around and contradict yourself by saying this:Quote from: Thebox on Today at 04:43:16The inverse square law , by time light reaches the telescope it has naturally redshifted because of the inverse .No , consider a distant object , the light from the object coming towards you weakens in magnitude and intensity because of the inverse .

Man Oh Man this is hilarious.  Good laugh, Sorry but it is.  That said. I had mentioned in an earlier post of my own that about 30 years ago when I just knew something was wrong somewhere or missing I had thought maybe light might have this red shift built in. I mean its crossed my mind but then I figured it crossed many.  Seems all you have to do is bounce A strong laser around for a fair amount of time and see if its there or not - im Guessing not (yup guessing as I don't know). As you know im working with infinity and beyond the point of physics breakdown - Only logic of the proven works not math. 

THE box - I more than most here probably respect your passion to find an answer out of the box but the pic is no hoax - if it don't fit - you need to change something till you fit it.

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 20:53:07
you need to change something till you fit it.


That's easy to do , you just have to tell anybody with an idea they are wrong and quote wiki , ''because science says this'' .

In another words you'd have to agree with outright bs and lies . 

Nerrr, not me , I'd rather remain unemployed thinking about real science . 

If anybody thinks time slows down ,then they are stupid , that's all I can say .

If you think space is expanding , that is laughable .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 20:59:18
I find it quite possible that you could have some kind of psychiatric problem. I don't mean that as an insult, but as an observation based on your behavior over the years. I suspect it may be bipolar disorder. You seem to have emotional swings where you get upset at how your posts are received here and declare that you are leaving, only to return later more enthusiastic than ever about your ideas. You also take (took?) depression medication. People with bipolar disorder can also suffer from grandiose delusions such as the belief that they are incredibly intelligent and capable of solving problems that no one else can (which has certainly been true of you).

Protecting those delusions can result in paranoia (which would fit your attempt to paint us as part of a cover up, as well as your claim that the black hole photograph was hoaxed). Apparently, such people can also fear that others will try to steal what they have (which fits with your fear that people would steal your ideas if you revealed them in full, such as in the following quote):

That's  all  I'm going to say  ,  too  many  thieves  in  science  .....Mediocre  mind  scientists  who  linger  in  the  shadows  to  steal  ideas  ...Because  they   have  no  smarts  of  their  own.

This following thread of yours reinforces the fact that you have either bipolar disorder or maybe even schizophrenia (grandiose delusions, paranoia and hearing voices can be a feature of both: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74383.msg550256#msg550256
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 21:05:37
I find it quite possible that you could have some kind of psychiatric problem. I don't mean that as an insult, but as an observation based on your behavior over the years. I suspect it may be bipolar disorder. You seem to have emotional swings where you get upset at how your posts are received here and declare that you are leaving, only to return later more enthusiastic than ever about your ideas. You also take (took?) depression medication. People with bipolar disorder can also suffer from grandiose delusions such as the belief that they are incredibly intelligent and capable of solving problems that no one else can (which has certainly been true of you).

Protecting those delusions can result in paranoia (which would fit your attempt to paint us as part of a cover up, as well as your claim that the black hole photograph was hoaxed). Apparently, such people can also fear that others will try to steal what they have (which fits with your fear that people would steal your ideas if you revealed them in full, such as in the following quote):

That's  all  I'm going to say  ,  too  many  thieves  in  science  .....Mediocre  mind  scientists  who  linger  in  the  shadows  to  steal  ideas  ...Because  they   have  no  smarts  of  their  own.

This thread of yours reinforces the fact that you have either bipolar disorder or maybe even schizophrenia (grandiose delusions, paranoia and hearing voices can be a feature of both: https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=74383.msg550256#msg550256
That's always a great policing technique , to say the person may have psychiatric  problems .  Yes I have a few but that doesn't make me delusional or stupid .
The problem with your thought  , I show your version then show what is wrong with your version , that is analysis not delusion .
If it wasn't some sort of ''game'' , then why don't you discuss the errors ? You don't even acknowledge the errors that are blatantly pointed out .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 21:15:20
Have any of your doctors, therapists, etc. ever discussed the possibility of bipolar disorder with you?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 21:20:23
Have any of your doctors, therapists, etc. ever discussed the possibility of bipolar disorder with you?
I told the doctor I thought I may be a bit bi polar but as normal they ignored it .  I often have surges of energy then at other times I feel like I'm dying literally and drained .  I've recently missed two hospital appointments because

1) It's £20 get there and back and I can't afford that at the moment

2)8.30am appointments and I often get insomnia 

3) don't have a phone so can't even ring them

But regardless of your diagnosis on my persona , your point being ?

My situation is desperation and my depression is circumstance , they go hand in hand .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/04/2019 21:22:44
how much they pay y
They only pay me when I'm at work. Not evenings + weekends.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 21:23:27
But regardless of your diagnosis on my persona , your point being ?

It could explain why your ideas don't line up with existing science knowledge and why you are resistant to changing them despite being shown evidence to the contrary.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 13/04/2019 21:25:17
You don't even acknowledge the errors that are blatantly pointed out .
You have not  pointed out errors.
But you have made plenty.
Not least, you have contradicted yourself.

Even if there was some conspiracy "out there"  that wouldn't explain why you don't even agree with yourself.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 21:33:52
despite being shown evidence to the contrary
Nobody has shown evidence to the contrary so that completely falsifies your diagnosis doctor . There is no evidence to the contrary , they keep presenting the very thing that is at error , ignoring the error .  Quite delusional I might say .

That's the point , I know I am not wrong because it's as plain as day , I know they are pretending it's not error , they have to be or that means they are really obtuse .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 21:35:47
You don't even acknowledge the errors that are blatantly pointed out .
You have not  pointed out errors.
But you have made plenty.
Not least, you have contradicted yourself.

Even if there was some conspiracy "out there"  that wouldn't explain why you don't even agree with yourself.

They are at error , period , I've shown the errors and you are really just a troll that works for them to keep the masses quiet .
Title: ?Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 21:39:37
Which is more likely?

1) One person being delusional.
3) Many thousands (or even millions) of people being delusional.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 21:42:10
Which is more likely?

1) One person being delusional.
3) Many thousands (or even millions) of people being delusional.
I have considered that you may all be under some sort of hypnotic state . Obviously you will say 1 but seriously there is errors , want to look at one step by step ?

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 21:45:58
I have considered that you may all be under some sort of hypnotic state .

Okay then, so which is more likely?

1) One person being delusional.
2) Many thousands (or even millions) of people being hypnotized?

want to look at one step by step ?

It's probably something that you've already spoken of many times before, but if you want to try go ahead.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 21:51:06
I have considered that you may all be under some sort of hypnotic state .

Okay then, so which is more likely?

1) One person being delusional.
2) Many thousands (or even millions) of people being hypnotized?

want to look at one step by step ?

It's probably something that you've already spoken of many times before, but if you want to try go ahead.
It's more likely that your semantics sucks and your understanding is misinformed because of this .

Ok , lets start simple , time dilation , time slowing down or speeding up as predicted by Einstein in relativity .  Later in experiment proven to be true by the Hafele-Keating experiment .
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Relativ/airtim.html

To start just one agreement question , don't try to add any complex to the question , just a yes or no please .

Do you agree that a change of velocity of a relative stationary clock v=0  changes the frequency ?

Δv=Δf


Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 21:55:03
It's more likely that your semantics sucks and your understanding is misinformed because of this .

So you think it really is more likely that the world at large is hypnotized by some mysterious hidden power structure than a single individual being delusional?

Do you agree that a change of velocity of a relative stationary clock v=0  changes the frequency ?

The frequency of what?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 21:59:17
It's more likely that your semantics sucks and your understanding is misinformed because of this .

So you think it really is more likely that the world at large is hypnotized by some mysterious hidden power structure than a single individual being delusional?

Do you agree that a change of velocity of a relative stationary clock v=0  changes the frequency ?

The frequency of what?
What do you mean the frequency of what ?  This is what I mean , if we're talking about time dilation and I have posted an experiment with a caesium clock , it is quite obvious we're discussing the caesium frequency .  Sorry to sound patronizing but that is quite obvious .

Do you agree that changing the velocity of a stationary caesium clock alters the frequency ?

Δv=Δf
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 22:02:58
Do you agree that changing the velocity of a stationary caesium clock alters the frequency ?

The answer depends on the reference frame that you are asking the question in.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 22:04:46
Do you agree that changing the velocity of a stationary caesium clock alters the frequency ?

The answer depends on the reference frame that you are asking the question in.

The stationary clock at the naval base if I need to be a bit more precise .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 22:07:46
The stationary clock at the naval base if I need to be a bit more precise .

Relative to that clock, yes, the frequency will change.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 22:13:03
The stationary clock at the naval base if I need to be a bit more precise .

Relative to that clock, yes, the frequency will change.

Ok thank you , so we can express this in basic math

Δv = Δf  where v is velocity , f is frequency and Δ is change

Are you ok with this , do you agree this expresses change of velocity is equal to a change of frequency ?

Equal in  a sense of the cause .  Δv causes Δf
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 22:15:10
Are you ok with this , do you agree this expresses change of velocity is equal to a change of frequency ?

No, because the change in frequency is not linearly proportional to the change in velocity.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 22:18:15
Are you ok with this , do you agree this expresses change of velocity is equal to a change of frequency ?

No, because the change in frequency is not linearly proportional to the change in velocity.
I did explain = didn't mean proportional , it means causes , I don't know the symbol for causes , can I use an arrow as in mapping ?

Δv→Δf

Would you agree with that ?

Or do you know a symbol of causality ?

Δv is the cause

Δf is the effect



Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 22:21:07
Fine, I'll tentatively accept that.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 22:28:48
Fine, I'll tentatively accept that.
That's great , now in time dilation , I'm pretty sure you will agree with that a change of frequency is equal to a change of time proportionally  ?


Δt = Δf 

Do you agree with this ?

I'm coming to my first point .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 13/04/2019 22:36:33
Actually, I need to make a correction. It isn't the change in velocity that causes the the frequency to be different. A change in velocity is equal to an acceleration. Acceleration isn't necessary for time dilation. A difference in a constant speed is sufficient.

I'm pretty sure you will agree with that a change of frequency is equal to a change of time proportionally  ?

That doesn't sound quite right. It would be better to say that the measured difference in frequency between the two clocks is proportional to the rate of the passage of time (time dilation). A "change of time" is present whether there is time dilation or not (time is always changing).
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 13/04/2019 22:44:14
Actually, I need to make a correction. It isn't the change in velocity that causes the the frequency to be different. A change in velocity is equal to an acceleration. Acceleration isn't necessary for time dilation. A difference in a constant speed is sufficient.

I'm pretty sure you will agree with that a change of frequency is equal to a change of time proportionally  ?

That doesn't sound quite right. It would be better to say that the measured difference in frequency between the two clocks is proportional to the rate of the passage of time (time dilation). A "change of time" is present whether there is time dilation or not (time is always changing).
I've noticed you've tried to complicate things but never mind .

Δv→Δf

Tell me where does the time function come from in this process ?

It only exists if the practitioner invents one and defines the frequency to be time .

You say there is a change of time ?  Where ?

Δv→Δf 

There is no time function .




Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 00:43:20
Tell me where does the time function come from in this process ?

What is a "time function"?

It only exists if the practitioner invents one and defines the frequency to be time .

I never defined frequency as time, so that's irrelevant.

You say there is a change of time ?  Where ?

Time is always changing (just watch the clock), so everywhere.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 05:41:46
I never defined frequency as time, so that's irrelevant.

That's very relevant actually because if you don't define the frequency as time , then obviously there is no time dilation .

Hafele-Keating experiment  does not show a time dilation , it shows a change of frequency and anything other than that is subjective and made up .

Quote
What is a "time function"?


Something subjective you might add and define 1.s is equal too . If you'd flew the caesium clock before 1967 in experiment , the frequency wouldn't of been defined equal to a second . 

I see what happened now , they already  knew the caesium frequency would change if they moved the clock so in an elaborate scheme got the frequency defined as 1.s so they could get famous by proving Alberts made up chit with more made up chit .
Crafty gits lol , I got there eventually , I can see what they did .

So somewhere around about 1965-1967 ,  somebody else must of worked out the famous clock thought experiment error so science had to cover it up by inventing the caesium time dilation .

Thinking maybe it is this guy …  In 1965 a scientist named Prof. R. Foster tried to turn conventional science on its head.








Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 06:08:55
That's very relevant actually because if you don't define the frequency as time , then obviously there is no time dilation

Frequency is a measure of cycles per unit time. Time alone does not give you a frequency.

it shows a change of frequency

A change of frequency by the exact amount (within experimental error margins) as predicted by relativistic time dilation.

Something subjective you might add and define 1.s is equal too . If you'd flew the caesium clock before 1967 in experiment , the frequency wouldn't of been defined equal to a second . 

In that case, the "time function" would be defined by whatever clock is being used to conduct the experiment.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 06:16:54
That's very relevant actually because if you don't define the frequency as time , then obviously there is no time dilation

Frequency is a measure of cycles per unit time. Time alone does not give you a frequency.

it shows a change of frequency

A change of frequency by the exact amount (within experimental error margins) as predicted by relativistic time dilation.

Something subjective you might add and define 1.s is equal too . If you'd flew the caesium clock before 1967 in experiment , the frequency wouldn't of been defined equal to a second . 

In that case, the "time function" would be defined by whatever clock is being used to conduct the experiment.


I think you've missed the point some how .  A frequency is not time , a change of frequency is not a change of time . 
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 06:22:06
This gets creepier , 

Science and Technology Act 1965
1965 CHAPTER 4
5 Further powers of Secretary of State and Minister of Technology. (1) The [F1Secretary of State][F2or the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food], . . . F3 may defray out of moneys provided by Parliament any expenses which, with the consent of the Treasury, they may respectively incur— (a) in carrying on or supporting scientific research or the dissemination of the results of scientific research; F4[( b ) in furthering the practical application of the results of scientific research;] (c) in making payments in respect of remuneration, allowances or pension benefits payable to or in respect of members of any advisory body established for the purpose of assisting the Secretary of State [F5or, as the case may be, the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food]. . .in matters connected with scientific research.


1965 , how curious , then 1967 the caesium etc , they well scammed you ...I now have their motive ...the secret group is amongst you politicians .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 06:27:23
A frequency is not time

I said the exact same thing when I said:

Frequency is a measure of cycles per unit time. Time alone does not give you a frequency.

Quote
a change of frequency is not a change of time

Nor did I say it was.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 06:28:23
A frequency is not time

I said the exact same thing when I said:

Frequency is a measure of cycles per unit time. Time alone does not give you a frequency.

Quote
a change of frequency is not a change of time

Nor did I say it was.
So you admit there is no time dilation ?

dissemination
[dɪˌsɛmɪˈneɪʃn]

NOUN
the action or fact of spreading something, especially information, widely.

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 06:34:19
So you admit there is no time dilation ?

That isn't what I said either.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 06:41:57
So you admit there is no time dilation ?

That isn't what I said either.
You certainly implied it with your answer .  I think you know there is no actual time dilation ,  you can have a timing dilation as the GPS uses .  It's still good science , just not a time dilation .

However we can have an age dilation , this is far more superior than a boring made up time dilation .  I can demonstrate an aging dilation in reality with physical observations .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 06:48:32
You certainly implied it with your answer .

No I didn't, because time dilation is not defined as "frequency equals time" or "a change in frequency equals a change in time". Time dilation is a change in the rate of the passage of time.

you can have a timing

Okay, so you have now split what modern physics knows simply as "time" into two concepts: actual time and ticking. You claim that what we are measuring is not a dilation of actual time, but a dilation of ticking instead. So in order to demonstrate that this  ticking effect of yours is different from actual time, tell me what kind of experiment could be done that would be able to tell the difference between a ticking dilation and genuine time dilation. More importantly, what experiments have already been done that demonstrate that ticking dilation occurs without actual time dilation occurring? Until such experiments are done, you can't claim this as anything more than a hypothesis.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 06:56:12
Okay, so you have now split what modern physics knows simply as "time" into two concepts: actual time and ticking. You claim that what we are measuring is not a dilation of actual time, but a dilation of ticking instead. So in order to demonstrate that this  ticking effect of yours is different from actual time, tell me what kind of experiment could be done that would be able to tell the difference between a ticking dilation and genuine time dilation. More importantly, what experiments have already been done that demonstrate that ticking dilation occurs without actual time dilation occurring? Until such experiments are done, you can't claim this as anything more than a hypothesis.
Great , you are getting the hang of this and thinking about it yourself .  Don't you think about your own questions and try to answer them yourself ?

I define the drip of my faucet 1.s = 10 drips

You asked '' what experiments have already been done that demonstrate that ticking dilation occurs without actual time dilation occurring?''

I turn the stop cock slightly my drips slow down

That is how bad the time dilation thought is .

Time never dilates it is constant , it is poor measurement of time that is not constant . Who the heck in their right minds would use a clock to measure time that is a variant clock ?



You asked ''

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 07:01:36
I define the drip of my faucet 1.s = 10 drips

You asked '' what experiments have already been done that demonstrate that ticking dilation occurs without actual time dilation occurring?''

I turn the stop cock slightly my drips slow down

That is how bad the time dilation thought is .

Here's the problem with that idea: you are manipulating the system to change the number of drops falling per second in your own reference frame. That would be equivalent to changing the rate at which a cesium clock ticks by replacing the cesium atom with a different kind of atom. In a case of genuine time dilation, the rate that the cesium clock measures will seem completely unchanged to a person in the same reference frame as the clock. It is only an observer in a different reference frame that sees that clock as ticking at a different rate.

So in order to modify my earlier question, what experiment could you perform to demonstrate a difference between ticking dilation and time dilation without a person in the clock's reference frame seeing any such dilation themself?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 07:08:31
So in order to modify my earlier question, what experiment could you perform to demonstrate a difference between ticking dilation and time dilation without a person in the clock's reference frame seeing any such dilation themself?

What do you mean and time dilation ?  There is no time dilation to include ,  the  Hafele–Keating experiment is a ticking dilation without a time dilation . 
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 07:12:43
What do you mean and time dilation ?  There is no time dilation to include ,  the  Hafele–Keating experiment is a ticking dilation without a time dilation . 

This is begging the question. In order to say that, you would need to demonstrate that a ticking dilation and time dilation are two different things in the first place. In order to do that, you would have to be able to perform an experiment that is capable of separately measuring the rate of ticking and the rate of actual time and showing that those two values differ. It would need to be demonstrated that the rate of ticking in the reference frame of the clock is unchanged for an observer in that same reference frame whereas the rate of ticking seen on the clock is changed for an outside observer.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 07:19:31
What do you mean and time dilation ?  There is no time dilation to include ,  the  Hafele–Keating experiment is a ticking dilation without a time dilation . 

This is begging the question. In order to say that, you would need to demonstrate that a ticking dilation and time dilation are two different things in the first place. In order to do that, you would have to be able to perform an experiment that is capable of separately measuring the rate of ticking and the rate of actual time and showing that those two values differ. It would need to be demonstrated that the rate of ticking in the reference frame of the clock is unchanged for an observer in that same reference frame whereas the rate of ticking seen on the clock is changed for an outside observer.

Oh my word, there is no time dilation to demonstrate , it doesn't happen .  Try to understand that although the clocks in transit in the experiments measured less ticks than the clock at rest , the clocks in transit experienced the clocks at rest ticks .

0.9 ticks is equal to 1 tick

Try this ,

Count to 100 fast while a friend simultaneously counts to 100 slow .

The penny will drop .



Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 07:25:46
Oh my word, there is no time dilation to demonstrate , it doesn't happen .

What experiment demonstrated this? Remember, in order to answer that question, you have to have a way to measure the time rate that does not simultaneously measure the ticking rate. Otherwise, you can't tell the difference between the two.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 07:33:36
Oh my word, there is no time dilation to demonstrate , it doesn't happen .

What experiment demonstrated this? Remember, in order to answer that question, you have to have a way to measure the time rate that does not simultaneously measure the ticking rate. Otherwise, you can't tell the difference between the two.

You miss the point entirely , there is nothing that demonstrates there is a time dilation , the caesium clock experiment demonstrates a ticking dilation , a change of frequency .  The same change of frequency as I've just give you in the counting experiment .  Your friend will count at a slower frequency than you and the sound wave created will also have a slower frequency than your faster frequency , faster counting .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 07:40:25
Your friend will count at a slower frequency than you and the sound wave emitted will also have a slower frequency than your faster frequency .

Then that doesn't line up with the way that the time dilation experiment was set up. In their experiment, the frequency of the cesium atom aboard the airplane would be measured by people aboard the same airplane as unchanged from the textbook value of a cesium atom's frequency. Same thing for those people measuring the frequency of their cesium atom on the ground. If you took a slow-counting person on the airplane, the other people on the plane would be able to measure that the person was counting slow. The fast-counting person on the ground would likewise be measured by the people on the ground as counting fast. So it's a faulty analogy that cannot replicate the scenario of the actual experiment.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 07:55:30
If you took a slow-counting person on the airplane, the other people on the plane would be able to measure that the person was counting slow.
No, the other people on the aeroplane would be counting at the same speed but well done on the thought , I had the same thought about it but you said it before me.  You've clicked in by that one thought of the counting slow friend on the aeroplane , did you read my mind on that :D
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 08:05:36
Before I go get some sleep ,  I and Kryptid were basically discussing

Sarah was at relative rest counting

Bill and Dave got onboard two different aeroplanes and took off , they were both counting

Bill and Dave returned to Sarah and compared counting .


Bill , Dave and Sarah all failed to count the same amount .

Good night .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 09:34:49
I did explain = didn't mean proportional , it means causes ,
No, you didn't explain that.
I don't know the symbol for causes
How many times have I told you it would help if you learned some science?
That includes the conventions of use of symbols etc.

It's not as if they are hard to find.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_logic_symbols

You seem to struggle with a  simple definition.
Time is what clocks measure (by ticking).
So a ticking dilation is a time dilation.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 09:37:26
Count to 100 fast while a friend simultaneously counts to 100 slow .

The penny will drop .
When the penny drops you will realise that the two identical clocks don't count really fast  and really slow.

From their points of view, they count at te  normal speed.
They could measure it using a clock for example.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 15:02:32
No, the other people on the aeroplane would be counting at the same speed

So I suppose this is what you are arguing: both people start off counting at the same rate when they are on the ground (the equivalent to two clocks being synchronized before the experiment), then one person steps aboard an airplane. For whatever reason, the person on the plane starts to slow down their rate of counting and everyone else on the plane has their thought processes slowed by the exact same amount so that they can't tell that the person has slowed down. Then when they land again, they find the two people are on different numbers. Is that how your analogy works?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 15:26:17
For whatever reason, the person on the plane starts to slow down their rate of counting and everyone else on the plane has their thought processes slowed by the exact same amount so that they can't tell that the person has slowed down.
It's important to recognise that it isn't just their thought processes.
They could look at their watches and make the same observation- the "counting passenger" has not slowed down.
They could use their heart rates as a comparison and again, they would not observe that the passenger's count rate had slowed.
They could see how long it takes to boil an egg and that too wouldn't show any slow down.
They could use his counting to check on the decay of radioactive material and still it wouldn't show any change.
Someone watching caterpillars turning into butterflies could use the guy's counting as their "clock" and the butterflies would arrive just as predicted.

From the point of everyone on the plane, the man counting would be marking off time, just as he would  on the ground.

Time is what clocks measure by ticking.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 17:52:32
No, the other people on the aeroplane would be counting at the same speed

So I suppose this is what you are arguing: both people start off counting at the same rate when they are on the ground (the equivalent to two clocks being synchronized before the experiment), then one person steps aboard an airplane. For whatever reason, the person on the plane starts to slow down their rate of counting and everyone else on the plane has their thought processes slowed by the exact same amount so that they can't tell that the person has slowed down. Then when they land again, they find the two people are on different numbers. Is that how your analogy works?
You got the idea , Mr C is starting to worry and trying put you off .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 18:06:32
You got the idea , Mr C is starting to worry and trying put you off .

You do realize what that means, right? It means that it's impossible to set up an experiment that will tell you the difference between ticking dilation and true time dilation. This makes your idea of ticking as a separate phenomenon from time an unfalsifiable hypothesis. If it isn't falsifiable, then it isn't scientific.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 18:06:55
Time is what clocks measure by ticking.
Nothing then ?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 18:08:41
You got the idea , Mr C is starting to worry and trying put you off .

You do realize what that means, right? It means that it's impossible to set up an experiment that will tell you the difference between ticking dilation and true time dilation. This makes your idea of ticking as a separate phenomenon from time an unfalsifiable hypothesis. If it isn't falsifiable, then it isn't scientific.
There is no such thing as a time dilation , a clock doesn't measure time ,  a clock is our aid to record time .  Time is our construct , it doesn't exist other than the use of the practitioner .


In the universe there is one now , this now never ever changes , it is always now.  People age , that's time .


True definition of time - Time is the aging process of matter relative to ageless space .

The aging process can speed up or slow down .

Einstein knew this , but Einstein did dare not remove time from science , he was subtle and brought in the Twin paradox to leave us a message .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 18:41:16
Mr C is starting to worry
No he's not.
Or rather, as usual, he's worried about your nonsense cluttering the site.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 18:42:07
Time is what clocks measure by ticking.
Nothing then ?
No, not "nothing", time.
That's what clocks are for.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 18:43:44
Time is the aging process of matter
And it varies in accordance with general relativity.
For things like muons we can measure tehri aging, and it varies with velocity.
Nothing you can say stops that being true.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 18:46:39
Time is our construct , it doesn't exist other than the use of the practitioner .
If that was true, it didn't exist round here prior to about 4 billion years ago because that's the earliest life.
So, how did things happen in the right order before there were any "practitioners"?

Certainly, mankind didn't construct it, so who or what did?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 18:48:50
Time is the aging process of matter
And it varies in accordance with general relativity.
For things like muons we can measure tehri aging, and it varies with velocity.
Nothing you can say stops that being true.

Yes that's correct ,the aging process changes , never ever denied that I can demonstrate real life examples . 

''No, not "nothing", time.''

No , time is manmade ,  it is relatively nothing with no physicality .

Things age differently in the same amount of ''time'' . 

Freeze something if you don't believe me .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 18:50:41
Time is our construct , it doesn't exist other than the use of the practitioner .
If that was true, it didn't exist round here prior to about 4 billion years ago because that's the earliest life.
So, how did things happen in the right order before there were any "practitioners"?

Certainly, mankind didn't construct it, so who or what did?
Things change because of physics Mr C ,  not because of time .  Destroy a caesium clock , does ''time'' stop ? Of course not because it is a construct .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 19:01:04
Time is a quantifiable construct measurement directly proportional to recording age .

That's an accurate definition with no lies ..

Added - How does the aging process work ?  The aging process has a frequency , if you froze yourself , your aging frequency would slow down , if you stood in a fire your aging process would speed up , if you stay relative constant , you age relatively constant .

Change the temperature of the caesium and the frequency changes .

ΔS→Δf  where S is entropy and f is frequency

The arrow is action causality symbol  ;)  A change of entropy causes a change of frequency


Ok have you got it now ?  Want to do what is space next ?

The Universe Inside and Out is a scientific theory and paper that investigates and researches past physics and present physics . An investigation that'll propose semantic errors , incorrect physics interpretation and ostensible content that has no others uses but that of the practitioner. The Universe inside and out conceptually considers the intricate details of physical process in search of relative correctness !
Additionally , The Universe Inside and Out proposes several theoretical notions , including the beginning of the visual universe , the gravity mechanism , the true nature of light and the meaning of time .


I fixed all your errors for you and I still get treated like an idiot , find some respect for crying out loud , I've advanced your chit big time making undisputable theory . Only a real true genius could destroy physics , rewrite that physics  and physics still comes out smelling of roses . 
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 19:37:52
Science thinks I'm nutz yet everything is science and science speaks to me and I speak back .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 19:47:44
Destroy a caesium clock , does ''time'' stop ? Of course not because it is a construct .
Time carries on in spite of the broken clock, precisely because Time is not a construct.
It was here before there was anyone to construct any concept of time or any clock.
Things age differently in the same amount of ''time'' . 

Freeze something if you don't believe me .
OK, so you think liquid water is the same as ice.
That's so daft I'm not sure how to respond (apart from the obvious-  pointing out that it's nonsense).
The aging process has a frequency , if you froze yourself , your aging frequency would slow down , if you stood in a fire your aging process would speed up , if you stay relative constant , you age relatively constant .
Just plain wrong.


Change the temperature of the caesium and the frequency changes .

No it does not.
That's one reason they chose it.

And it's another example of where it would be better if you actually learned stuff.
Only a real true genius could destroy physics , rewrite that physics  and physics still comes out smelling of roses . 
Maybe a genius could; that would certainly explain why you have failed.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 19:50:57
Maybe a genius could; that would certainly explain why you have failed.
You are really so obtuse Mr C and you are a state employee ?  Wow …

Learn some science Mr C ,

Krytid can see the same logical thought ''path'' as me, he understands the error , whether he admits it or not is another story , depends how much nutz he got .  He can envision , he has skills like me . He could see his friend counting slower on the plane .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 20:03:49
You are really so obtuse Mr C
I may well be.
But you have yet to demonstrate the fact.
You have, on the other hand, cited an example which actually contradicts your assertion.
How obtuse is that?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 20:04:42
He could see his friend counting slower on the plane .
Not if he was on the same plane, he couldn't.
That's the point.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 20:06:20
Let's now discuss what is objectively , space ?

We do not know how big space is so when considering space we can express Rⁿ  , an unspecified volume of real coordinate space .   Space time is independent of absolute space but indistinguishable from space as the energy propagating through space is invisible so is well blended in to be indistinguishable of space but not dependent of space .
Space is immovable and never changes , things change relative to space . 
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 20:07:51
He could see his friend counting slower on the plane .
Not if he was on the same plane, he couldn't.
That's the point.
If he was on the same plane he would still be counting faster than his friend . You have no point .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 20:09:31
If he was on the same plane he would still be counting faster than his friend .
Guess again.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 20:09:53
You are really so obtuse Mr C
I may well be.
But you have yet to demonstrate the fact.
You have, on the other hand, cited an example which actually contradicts your assertion.
How obtuse is that?
It doesn't contradict it at all Mr C , you are being obtuse and don't take offense to this , it did take me a decade to get to an understanding of being able to explain it .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 20:12:49
If he was on the same plane he would still be counting faster than his friend .
Guess again.
What ?  You are confusing yourself ,  if you get on a plane with a friend and he is counting slower than you , you can observe that .  If your friend got on a plane counting slow without you , you can still observe that with mobile communication .  When your friend returns to you and has counted less than you , you have still been away from each other for the exact same amount of time . 
If you can't see that Mr C , I'd give up on science if I were you .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 20:24:16
Understand , your friend leaves you now , throughout the entire journey now doe's not change , he returns to you now , he has aged and you have aged but now never changed .  It never does .

It is now in England
It is now in America
It is now on the Moon
It is now on the Sun
It is now as far as we can observe
It is always now and things age , now never changes .

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 20:44:58
This is what's happening with science ..


* or.jpg (20.91 kB . 665x526 - viewed 571 times)



Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 21:03:30
it did take me a decade to get to an understanding of being able to explain it .
Please provide some indication of whom you have explained it to, because I really don't think you are there yet.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 21:04:22
This is what's happening with science ..


* or.jpg (20.91 kB . 665x526 - viewed 571 times)




What?
Badly drawn graphs?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 21:06:14
If he was on the same plane he would still be counting faster than his friend .
Guess again.
What ?  You are confusing yourself ,  if you get on a plane with a friend and he is counting slower than you , you can observe that .  If your friend got on a plane counting slow without you , you can still observe that with mobile communication .  When your friend returns to you and has counted less than you , you have still been away from each other for the exact same amount of time . 
If you can't see that Mr C , I'd give up on science if I were you .
Oh, I see.
You have failed to understand the whole point  of the exercise.
The clocks they used in the real experiment all count at the same rate locally.
It's only when you move one of them that time slows down for it, so it gets out of step.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 21:14:01
It's only when you move one of them that time slows down for it, so it gets out of step.
Don't you mean , the frequency slows? 

Where are you getting the function of time from ?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 21:15:51
This is what's happening with science ..


* or.jpg (20.91 kB . 665x526 - viewed 571 times)




What?
Badly drawn graphs?
I could of been more precise and put years of things on such as Albert and CERN etc.  It's an example Mr C , they don't have to be precise .


The Hafele–Keating experiment was a test of the theory of relativity. In October 1971, Joseph C. Hafele, a physicist, and Richard E. Keating, an astronomer, took four cesium-beam atomic clocks aboard commercial airliners. They flew twice around the world, first eastward, then westward, and compared the clocks against others that remained at the United States Naval Observatory. When reunited, the three sets of clocks were found to disagree with one another, and their differences were consistent with the predictions of special and general relativity.

concept

an idea or invention to help sell or publicize a commodity.

Science added concept time to the caesium . You got sold broken clocks .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 21:43:10
You got sold broken clocks .
In what way?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 21:48:40
You got sold broken clocks .
In what way?

Because they added concept time for the convincer . If I stood on a market stall and offered to sell you a clock that ticked slower now and again , would you buy it ?


However , if I added concept time to that clock and told you it agreed with Einstein , then would you buy it ?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/04/2019 21:54:23
If I stood on a market stall and offered to sell you a clock that ticked slower now and again , would you buy it ?
Well, if you sold me a clock that ran at exactly the same speed predicted  by GR even when it moved or was subject to changes in gravity then I'd be tempted.
Either the rest of the world is right, in which case it would be a good clock.
Or, more interestingly, you are right; all clocks should tick at the same rate, but the clock you offer "magically" knows that it's moving or in a gravity well or whatever.

That would be an interesting trick, wouldn't it?

So I might buy it to find out how it knew it was moving without reference to the outside world.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 22:05:24
That would be an interesting trick, wouldn't it?

Predicting a result that you already have the answer to is not magic :D

When the clock is built before the second was even defined to that clock ,  what time would do if defined to that clock , was pre-known . It's concept fabrication to sell broken clocks , the most expensive broken clocks in the world . If I know the frequency of my invented clock would change if I moved the clock , I'd have to add a concept to make the clock seem legit and working .  Knowing if I could get science to define the second of the frequency , I knowingly know time will be seen as changing and fit in .

If you remove the added concept time , they are just broken inaccurate clocks that fail on synchronization .

Probably a little harsh towards Louis Essen and Jack Parry because the caesium at rest does make a good clock , it was concept time added in America to invent the time dilation part .
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 14/04/2019 22:59:54
There is no such thing as a time dilation

What is the practical difference between your ticking dilation and relativity's time dilation anyway? If both of them predict identical physical events, then you can't distinguish them.

What experiment evidence would convince you that time dilation is real?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 14/04/2019 23:13:16
What experiment evidence would convince you that time dilation is real?
The clock that was ticking slower would have to vanish out of existence , it would be behind me in time and could never return to my time .  That won't happen and doesn't happen .

Practical use no change ,  semantic use , big change .  Time does not slow down or speed up , is the change needed.

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Kryptid on 15/04/2019 01:12:24
The clock that was ticking slower would have to vanish out of existence , it would be behind me in time and could never return to my time .  That won't happen and doesn't happen .

A time-dilated clock would still progress forward through time, though. It may take longer to reach, say 5:30 PM than a non-dilated clock, but it would eventually get there and should therefore be observable to anyone else who happened to be at that same location when 5:30 PM came around. So even if time is real and time dilation exists, there's no logical reason that a dilated clock would seem to vanish from your sight.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Lance Canham on 15/04/2019 04:49:55
The clock that was ticking slower would have to vanish out of existence , it would be behind me in time and could never return to my time .  That won't happen and doesn't happen .

If I speed  the one clock fast enough so that every 10 units I move forward in time its clock is loosing one   when I get to 1 second its still there I see it but its clock reads .9  Its still there. It does not vanish into a new dimension. if we carry on for 10 seconds I see when as far as its concerned only 9 seconds passed but its still there. We are both there.  If we were both born at second 0 and it could magically stop at my second ten we would still be there it would be 9 second old I would be 10. Ya I saw it there for 10 seconds but it aged 9 - it saw me for 9 second I aged 10.

Nothing vanished into another dimension.

Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/04/2019 07:27:36
Predicting a result that you already have the answer to is not magic 

When the clock is built before the second was even defined to that clock ,  what time would do if defined to that clock , was pre-known . It's concept fabrication to sell broken clocks , the most expensive broken clocks in the world . If I know the frequency of my invented clock would change if I moved the clock , I'd have to add a concept to make the clock seem legit and working .  Knowing if I could get science to define the second of the frequency , I knowingly know time will be seen as changing and fit in .

If you remove the added concept time , they are just broken inaccurate clocks that fail on synchronization .

Probably a little harsh towards Louis Essen and Jack Parry because the caesium at rest does make a good clock , it was concept time added in America to invent the time dilation part .
How come all clocks show the same change?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 15/04/2019 08:46:25
How come all clocks show the same change?
I neither know or care , that's like asking why a piece of fiction is . 
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/04/2019 18:32:30
How come all clocks show the same change?
I neither know or care , that's like asking why a piece of fiction is . 
No.
It's like asking why a fact is.

Incidentally, why would science go to the trouble of making stuff up?
We would get paid anyway.
We get paid more for making things that work- like GPS.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 15/04/2019 20:29:23
ncidentally, why would science go to the trouble of making stuff up?We would get paid anyway.We get paid more for making things that work- like GPS.


Yes GPS works , why would they make things up ?  To glam science .

Anyway you know now the semantics of time dilation suck big time , want to try for space ?

Do you want to insist space itself is expanding or have you got some smarts since ?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/04/2019 20:49:34
Do you want to insist space itself is expanding or have you got some smarts since ?
No.
I'd like you to answer my question.

How come all clocks show the same change?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 15/04/2019 21:24:04
Do you want to insist space itself is expanding or have you got some smarts since ?
No.
I'd like you to answer my question.

How come all clocks show the same change?

Cabin pressure
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: mad aetherist on 16/04/2019 02:33:59
This is what's happening with science ..
What?
Badly drawn graphs?
I could of been more precise and put years of things on such as Albert and CERN etc.  It's an example Mr C , they don't have to be precise .
The Hafele–Keating experiment was a test of the theory of relativity. In October 1971, Joseph C. Hafele, a physicist, and Richard E. Keating, an astronomer, took four cesium-beam atomic clocks aboard commercial airliners. They flew twice around the world, first eastward, then westward, and compared the clocks against others that remained at the United States Naval Observatory. When reunited, the three sets of clocks were found to disagree with one another, and their differences were consistent with the predictions of special and general relativity.
concept an idea or invention to help sell or publicize a commodity.
Science added concept time to the caesium . You got sold broken clocks .
Hafele Keating was/is a fraud.
http://www.cartesio-episteme.net/h%26kpaper.htm
http://euclideanreality.com/pdf/Critical_Reflections_on_the_Hafele_and_Keating_Experiment.pdf
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/04/2019 06:56:17
Do you want to insist space itself is expanding or have you got some smarts since ?
No.
I'd like you to answer my question.

How come all clocks show the same change?

Cabin pressure
No, that makes no sense; we would see the effect of atmospheric pressure on earth bound clocks.
It's also not credible anyway; the caesium is in a vacuum chamber.
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 16/04/2019 07:15:25
Do you want to insist space itself is expanding or have you got some smarts since ?
No.
I'd like you to answer my question.

How come all clocks show the same change?

Cabin pressure
No, that makes no sense; we would see the effect of atmospheric pressure on earth bound clocks.
It's also not credible anyway; the caesium is in a vacuum chamber.

Did they use identical planes that  had  identical mass ?






The ground state constant became a different ground state constant ,  the clocks absorbed less energy from the planes than the earth maybe .  An air vacuum is also not an absolute field vacuum . Or maybe the results were just fake .


added- Isn't a change of frequency the same as a change of current ?

0649359890675eae4845f5bd3d5e5c74.gif?

Δv→Δi →Δf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current


Added - ok , so it looks like to me that there isn't a time dilation , they actually discovered how to measure a change of current flow of a N-flowing ''beam'' . 

I'd hate to try to do the conversion .

Added - arrr, I use to do some amateur dj , I understand about amps , had some huge speakers in the past etc , now I understand frequency , vibration and flow in full .


added - eureka  t=I   ::)

I=4d3bdd1569a5c1600322b1971be3b634.gif maybe....


added- The continuous flow of time  is proportional to the flow of current .

Of course time defined a quantifiable measurement directly proportional to aging .

Δi = var (x) 

 :P







Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 16/04/2019 08:27:21
vmaxI = 515829c4b9a99bace822c58088bfdca0.gif
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/04/2019 18:10:31
Did they use identical planes that  had  identical mass ?
No.
They even used planes moving at different speeds, and also satellites and just to make it interesting, muons.
And, in spite of that they still get the right change in elapsed time.
How do you explain how the clocks all "go wrong" to exactly the right extent?
Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Thebox on 17/04/2019 18:31:27
in spite of that they still get the right change in elapsed time.

Elapsed timing Mr C ,  please use the correct semantics . 

I haven't personally done the experiment or observed the experiment so I'm not in a position to make a full analysis of the experiment and attempt to answer the whys' .
However I am in a position to correct the semantics and interpretation , 


ΔS→ΔU→Δv→Δf   

x≠xy

The above the mechanics of the experiment , no time function other than that added in equivalence that has no other use but that of the practitioneer .

f≠t  unless subjectively interpreted so .





Title: Re: Does science think we are all stupid as they create more lies ?
Post by: Colin2B on 17/04/2019 18:34:17
Fake sh1t , ...... science thinks we are all stupid and will believe all their bs they preach to us .

Hafele Keating was/is a fraud

This thread seems more conspiracy theory than real discussion of new theory.
Locked and moved