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On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: flummoxed on 14/04/2019 13:57:45

Title: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: flummoxed on 14/04/2019 13:57:45
Hawking radiation results when two virtual particles become separated, due to gravity.

During the inflationary stage of spatial expansion matter likely came into existence via the separation of virtual particles, causing a hot big bang and expansion of the universe to what we have today.

Could Black Holes cause the reversal of the Hot Big Bang?

Could a BH bring fundamental particles close enough together to destroy each other, not unlike virtual particles which borrow energy from the vacuum of space via the HUP and then repay it. According to Hawking if they become separated they become real, can this be reversed at high enough pressures.

Inside a BH could the contraction of space (destruction of dark energy) cause particles to come together at rates exceeding the speed of light, without violating relativity, in a similar way to expansion of the universe via dark energy is causing galaxies at the outer edges of the universe to move away from us in excess of c?

Things moving at c do not experience time, things in excess of c may experience time reversal inside a BH, how does this affect their existence. ?

Does QCD give any insight into what might happen with spacial contraction inside a BH?

Does the HUP still apply inside a BH, it does not appear to take gravity into acount?

Title: Re: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: evan_au on 14/04/2019 21:55:43
Quote from: flummoxed
things in excess of c may experience time reversal inside a BH, how does this affect their existence. ?
Nobody really knows what happens inside the twisted spacetime of a black hole. Having said that...

Quote
Could a BH bring fundamental particles close enough together to destroy each other
Einstein's general relativity suggests that anything passing inside the event horizon of a black hole is on a one-way trip to a singularity at the center of the black hole. This includes:
- Normal matter
- Antimatter
- Radiation
- (Presumably) Dark Matter
- But Dark Energy is an unknown - it appears to be more of a force, acting on large scales.

At the central singularity, any matter would destroy itself with antimatter, producing radiation. But all radiation would also end up at the singularity too. Effectively, to an outside observer, the mass/energy of the black hole would reflect all the matter, antimatter and radiation that ever fell into it.

Quote
Could Black Holes cause the reversal of the Hot Big Bang?
Some theoretical physicists have speculated that rather than forming a singularity, the center of a black hole is an Einstein-Rosen bridge to another universe. To an outside observer, this situation is indistinguishable from a black hole with a singularity at the center.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_cosmology
Title: Re: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: flummoxed on 14/04/2019 22:06:40
QuoteCould Black Holes cause the reversal of the Hot Big Bang? Some theoretical physicists have speculated that rather than forming a singularity, the center of a black hole is an Einstein-Rosen bridge to another universe. To an outside observer, this situation is indistinguishable from a black hole with a singularity at the center.See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_cosmology

White holes theoretically connect to black holes via ER bridges, Podolsky theorizes we are living in a WH. If a White hole is connected to a BH via a wormhole, could all black holes be connected to one White hole, which makes up all off space time. 
Title: Re: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: flummoxed on 15/04/2019 10:11:18
At the central singularity, any matter would destroy itself with antimatter, producing radiation. But all radiation would also end up at the singularity too. Effectively, to an outside observer, the mass/energy of the black hole would reflect all the matter, antimatter and radiation that ever fell into it.

Why anti matter and radiation these are still definable energies. Do you mean fundamental particles, are torn apart by gravity leaving just quantum froth, virtual particles no real particles exist anymore inside the singularity inside the BH.

IF photons reach the singularity intact, they come to a standstill and transfer their inertia to what ever they hit. However it is likely they like every other particle crossing the event horizon are converted to quantum froth. 

Gravitational forces rip apart anything including molecules and fundamental particles shortly after crossing the event horizon leaving just quantum froth, and a singularity of non descript dimensions.  Time ceases to tick as everything is accelerated to c or c++ maybe as space contracts (think inflation in reverse) as the singularity is approached.

If space time dimensions cease to exist at the singularity, what reduced dimensions remain, and how would they connect to the rest of space time.

Could the quantum foam appearing evenly in space originate from black holes singularities at some point in time in the past or most likely future?
 
Is there a mathematical connection between Ads space, Singularities, Wormholes and time travel. Since only virtual particles are left inside a singularity is it possible they pass out of the singularity and appear as dark energy driving the expansion of space.  ??? I understand normal matter can not pass through a singularity for some strange reason I havent read up on yet



Title: Re: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: evan_au on 15/04/2019 11:39:37
Nobody really knows what happens inside the twisted spacetime of a black hole. Having repeated that...
Quote from: flummoxed
Gravitational forces rip apart anything including molecules and fundamental particles shortly after crossing the event horizon
Spaghettification is a dramatic way to go
- It would definitely happen for stellar-mass black hole (and even a neutron star, which has no event horizon): the gravitational attraction of your feet is far greater than the gravitational attraction of your head, and you get "spaghettified" (although the process is so fast that you wouldn't feel anything)
- It does not happen for supermassive black holes: The tidal effects are much milder here, and you might actually survive crossing the event horizon (if a distant observer extrapolated the moment when that would happen). Although the tidal effects would become much greater the closer you get to the singularity, so spaghettification is the likely final result.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettification

Quote
I understand normal matter can not pass through a singularity for some strange reason
Relativity suggests that all matter would be crushed by an unstoppable force into zero space at the center of a black hole: the singularity. According to this theory, no physical object like a spaceship, a mouse or a molecule could survive impact with the singularity.

Of course, Einstein viewed the existence of infinities (singularities) as an indication that hs theory failed in these extreme cases, so I don't think Einstein himself would be surprised if some other physics took over in these extreme conditions.

For example, relativity ignores quantum theory. In quantum theory, you can never simultaneously know the precise position and energy of the same particle (and several other uncertainties). So quantum theory hints that the singularity may not be exactly zero size. Perhaps some small things (eg electrons) might survive impact with the singularity in some way?

There is another potential loophole (literally) in the theory of singularities. If the black hole has a lot of angular momentum, and the black hole collapses just right, it is theoretically possible that the singularity could be a donut, rather than a point. In theory, if you shot a small spacecraft through this loophole, the spacecraft might just make it through intact. But then the twisted spacetime becomes even odder...
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_singularity
 
Title: Re: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: flummoxed on 15/04/2019 21:18:24
Relativity suggests that all matter would be crushed by an unstoppable force into zero space at the center of a black hole: the singularity. According to this theory, no physical object like a spaceship, a mouse or a molecule could survive impact with the singularity. Of course, Einstein viewed the existence of infinities (singularities) as an indication that hs theory failed in these extreme cases, so I don't think Einstein himself would be surprised if some other physics took over in these extreme conditions.For example, relativity ignores quantum theory. In quantum theory, you can never simultaneously know the precise position and energy of the same particle (and several other uncertainties). So quantum theory hints that the singularity may not be exactly zero size. Perhaps some small things (eg electrons) might survive impact with the singularity in some way?There is another potential loophole (literally) in the theory of singularities. If the black hole has a lot of angular momentum, and the black hole collapses just right, it is theoretically possible that the singularity could be a donut, rather than a point. In theory, if you shot a small spacecraft through this loophole, the spacecraft might just make it through intact. But then the twisted spacetime becomes even odder...
The concept of singularity seems to break down, under relativity. Where the problem is handed to quantum mechanics. Long before a zero volume in space all particles are torn apart, and time stops working. Kipp Thorne reckons the most likely is a quantum foam where time and space dont exist. The concept of wormholes remains, when stripped of space time, where does all that quantum foam go in the singularity.

The donut and various other shapes supposes space and time survive in the singularity. The math indicates it doesn't. Following the math what options do White Holes give in terms of space time appearing from a singularity full of quantum froth. Could Dark Energy Quantum froth originating from a singularity in the future drive the expansion of space time.

Kipp Thorne Finishes his book with fanciful ideas of trips to Vega via Wormholes. Popolawski theorizes white holes exist, which is most likely.

The EPR = ER conjecture, non locality entanglement and the folding of space via the holographic principle, etc are all intriguing and it appears related.

Thankyou for the reply. 
Title: Re: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: flummoxed on 16/04/2019 10:41:22
Travel through wormholes is possible but slow ER MAYBE https://phys.org/news/2019-04-wormholes.html?utm_source=nwletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-nwletter
Title: Re: Big Suck Theory, can a Black hole contract space, and destroy energy.
Post by: Lance Canham on 19/04/2019 05:29:03
I was thinking along this line in reply to you in my other thread, For me now it makes no sense the space is there. What we see out side is matter falling through space. Also that would again require me to have special location - Its not right. The space is left behind and finally squished out till you have a finite piece of true solid pure matter and it takes Area not space. It Has become a particle with no information other than mass and spin.  The break down is in the compressed space out side it.