Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: pasala on 23/06/2019 17:49:31

Title: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 23/06/2019 17:49:31
HOW GRAVITY WORKS:
Closed volumes with mass:  All closed volumes such as elementary particles Proton(s), neutron(s) and electron(s) pushes their surroundings and produces convex curvature of spacetime.   Their internal spacetime "pushes" the surrounding spacetime to make room. The density of spacetime around the closed volume increases, and the latter has difficulty to move. As a result, a "mass effect" appears, i.e. an effect having all the characteristics of mass. Since spacetime has properties of elasticity, as per Einstein it exerts a pressure on the surface of closed volumes. The mass component [M] can be extracted from the pressure [M/LT2] by simple mathematical operations. This leads to a 4D expression of the mass: m = f(x,y,z,t)

Open Volumes, massless: It is just a vacuum, but sometimes found in various forms such as the volume of orbitals or the space between atoms. These volumes exist but they are "porous" regarding spacetime. More exactly, they are subject to variations of spacetime but they do not curve spacetime themselves. Therefore, open volumes are massless since no curvature means no mass

If we replace the closed volume by two or more closed volumes, the pressure exerted by spacetime on these volumes tends to bring them closer to each other. The result is equivalent to an attraction. For example, a pressure on one side of a sheet of paper is equivalent to an attraction on the other side. In both cases, the sheet is curved.
Gravitation is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by spacetime on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other.


How Gravity works:
It is true that all elementary particles pushes their surroundings and produces convex curvature.  If we replace two or more closed volumes, pressure against them increases and the same was experimentally proved.

First of all, we have to remember that this experiment was done in a Gravity field only.  Gravity is already influencing each and every particle and Gravity is of “matter blind”.  We are testing Gravity effect on closed volume in a Gravity field.

Suppose if a closed volume has to “curve the spacetime” means its internal energy must come out.  So each and every closed volume must be exited with energy to do so.  Isn’t it appears something extra-ordinary and unbelievable.   
 Here, we are looking at one side of the coin only.  There is potential energy stored on this Earth.  It is creating pressure/force on all closed volumes.  Excess energy, emitted by the closed volume comes out and pushes the outside energy, which appears as curvature.   “THIS IS THE CURVATURE”.

However it is true that energy is of object oriented.  Since all masses are its objects it start collecting/pooling against it and creates pressure which is known as “mass effect”.  It mainly depends on the availability of energy in the open area.

“Gravity is not an attractive force between masses but pressure force exerted by spacetime”. 

Unless there is pooling/concentration of energy against mass gravity is impossible.  Water particles are raising due to radiation and these particles moves so high that it curves the space.  When these particles joins with other particles, due to gravity or geodesics, becomes heavier and creates pressure on the energy and “mass effect” comes out.

Gravity as Curved Spacetime
Einstein eventually identified the property of spacetime which is responsible for gravity as its curvature. Space and time in Einstein's universe are no longer flat (as implicitly assumed by Newton) but can pushed and pulled, stretched and warped by matter. Gravity feels strongest where spacetime is most curved, and it vanishes where spacetime is flat. This is the core of Einstein's theory of general relativity, which is often summed up in words as follows: "matter tells spacetime how to curve, and curved spacetime tells matter how to move". A standard way to illustrate this idea is to place a bowling ball (representing a massive object such as the sun) onto a stretched rubber sheet (representing spacetime). If a marble is placed onto the rubber sheet, it will roll toward the bowling ball, and may even be put into "orbit" around the bowling ball. This occurs, not because the smaller mass is "attracted" by a force emanating from the larger one, but because it is traveling along a surface which has been deformed by the presence of the larger mass. In the same way gravitation in Einstein's theory arises not as a force propagating through spacetime, but rather as a feature of spacetime itself. According to Einstein, your weight on earth is due to the fact that your body is traveling through warped spacetime!

As we have seen, matter does not simply pull on other matter across empty space, as Newton had imagined. Rather matter distorts space-time and it is this distorted space-time that in turn affects other matter. Objects (including planets, like the Earth, for instance) fly freely under their own inertia through warped space-time, following curved paths because this is the shortest possible path (or geodesic) in warped space-time.
This, in a nutshell, then, is the General Theory of Relativity, and its central premise is that the curvature of space-time is directly determined by the distribution of matter and energy contained within it. What complicates things, however, is that the distribution of matter and energy is in turn governed by the curvature of space, leading to a feedback loop and a lot of very complex mathematics. Thus, the presence of mass/energy determines the geometry of space, and the geometry of space determines the motion of mass/energy.

About General theory of relativity:
: "matter tells spacetime how to curve, and curved spacetime tells matter how to move". This is the central premise of Einstein’s general theory of relativity.  Actually curvature of spacetime by the closed volume is the base for this.  When a small particle curves the space what about huge masses such as Earth.   “According to Einstein, your weight on earth is due to the fact that your body is traveling through warped spacetime” .

Earth is not rotating against gravity but gravity itself hooked Earth.  Here Earth is moving means it is not Earth alone, things existing on the Earth, gravity field everything in one unit.  Spacetime is warped not due to spinning of Earth.  There is strong potential energy on this Earth and it is due to mass effect, warping things on the Earth. Here comparison to cylindrical carnival ride to Earth is not so correct.  Cylindrical carnival is moving in a gravity field.  As the carnival moves, at the edges gravity weakens and climate warps the edges.

As per Newton,  "it follows that a moving body has no determinate velocity and no definite line in which it moves". 
In fact curvature is only against the mass and there are no curved paths. Imagine empty space - in our case, a two-dimensional plane - with no forces acting between the bodies floating around. If there are no forces, then classical mechanics and Einstein's mechanics of special relativity are in agreement: Under these circumstances, bodies move along the straightest possible lines.

In flat, empty space-time, small test panrticles follow straight lines.

Ok, let us imagine that there is 2d space or empty space. Suppose small test particles A and B have started their journey in empty space.  As there is no Gravity or curved space nothing can stop them.  Let us analyse in detail.  Suppose if we detonate an atom bomb, energy is freed.  Nothing can stop movement of energy.  There is no scope for chain reaction. Each atom detonated, electrons, protons, neutrons comes out freely and makes their way.  Here there is no scope for E=MC2.

Here, in 2d space or empty space, light is impossible.  If switch an torch light, it never gives you any light. Potential energy stored within cell comes out, but, since it is empty, light particles moves out freely.

2d Space or empty space exists in between two solar systems only.

Suppose if we enter our solar system, 4d space time, energy and dust particles are present everywhere.  Here matter curves space time.  Here energy is in free  state and effects of gravity are absent. Ok, if we detonate an atom bomb, since there is curvature of space, it explodes, however in a slow motion and that too, as there is no pressure or force, chain reaction slows down, area coverage is limited and of course, sudden eddies into the space time is limited and it covers short radius only.  Here particle A and B cannot move freely as other particles obstruct them.

If we switch on a torch cell, it gives light but within short radius.  Light behaves differently as there is no gravity.  Light is not bent by gravity and therefore we have to arrange them near to us.

Einstein’s 4d spacetime:
This is present near to the huge masses such as Earth. A given configuration of matter distorts space-time geometry (not only because of mass, but also with its energy, inner tensions or pressure) and this distorted geometry makes matter move in certain ways. This movement, in turn, changes the matter configuration, and space-time geometry changes correspondingly. Now that space-time geometry is a bit different, it also acts on matter in a different way, matter moves, geometry changes, and so on in an endless dance.

Raise of particles:
This is the key point in creating Gravity in a 4d space time.  Our predecessors are having a wrong notion that spin of Earth is paving way for this.  We have to keep in mind that Earth is not rotating against gravity, but gravity itself hooked Earth. 

Each and every closed volume is undergoing the influence of Gravity, so naturally it comes down to Earth only.  But how particle A and B are raising.  If we observe nature carefully, it is water particles.  Due to radiation water particles are raising and are moving against Gravity.  It is paving way for storage of potential energy on this Earth. If the energy start pooling or concentrating at a particular place, water evaporates and start moving into the space.  If the pressure or force increases water particles and other dust particles moves to new height and it appears that space time is curved.  Meanwhile it is paving way for further accumulation of potential energy. Particles raising from Earth at different places joins with each other and becomes heavier and accelerates downwards.  In this way it warps space time of Earth, which is known as Gravity.

E = mc2 Enigma
 E = mc2 is a part of Special Relativity. However, despite the fact that the calculus is quite simple, Modern Physics does not propose a rational explanation of this strange phenomenon.
The Spacetime Model demonstrates that the principle of converting mass to energy is very simple. This principle is shown by the following example.
•   Part A
An empty sphere is immerged in a container filled with water. The surface of water is quiet.
•   Part B
If the sphere disappears suddenly by a thought experiment, the depression will make eddies which have energy (E = hν). Converting a mass to energy follows the same principle. A closed volume disappears, and is transformed into an open volume. This produces "eddies" in spacetime, which are gamma rays. These gamma rays may be converted into particles such as electrons-positrons pairs, and so on.


About E = mc2
There is Gravity and it is influencing each and every closed volume. Raising of particles have helped in creating potential energy stored on Earth.  Due to pressure/force exerted by this potential energy, each and every closed volume is curving the space time.

 If we say that closed volumes are curving space time by its internal energy, it is rather irrelevant.  If we detonate an atom, energy already present in the space time, potential energy, which created  “inward thrust” and it tries to occupy the gap.  Now energy freed from the atom, creates “outward thrust”.  This action increases radiation within short distance and paves way for chain reaction. Total process is completed within short time.  Initially an “inward thrust” is created and later “outward thrust”   creates eddies in the space time.

Total energy released by an atom bomb mainly depends on:
01  Internal energy
02  Gravity in a particular  place.
Suppose if we detonate the same atom bomb on Moon:
01  Internal energy is same.
02  Gravity is just 1/6th only

Since gravity is weak, curvature of space time by the closed volume is also weak. “eddies” into space time slows down and it spreads up to limited area only.

Suppose if the same atomic bomb is detonated in space, outside Earth’s climate: Here there is sufficient energy but it is not present with any force i.e., free state and thus even though there is inward as well outward thrust explosion is limited. 

How Solar system is working:
Big bang is the base for any solar system.  When two huge masses faced each other devastating fire started.  It resulted in release of huge energy into open area.    It is not only Sun but other planets also burnt for lot of period and pumped huge energy.  At present Sun is only maintaining this energy base.  It is true that energy is of ‘object oriented’. 

This energy base is present in the form of rings, like onion rings.  We can compare this to rainbow.  Since our Solar system is moving to unknown place, energy is moving along these rings. 

Ok, suppose an asteroid from 2d space or empty entered our solar system.   Energy curves the space time around the asteroid.  It all depends on the acceleration or speed with which the asteroid is travelling.  Suppose if the mass of the asteroid consists of light atoms than it yields to the energy and start moving along with other planets.

In case, if the asteroid crosses 1st one and enters next one, the 2nd one possess more energy than the 1st one.  So naturally curvature around the asteroid increases and creates more pressure.  If it yields than naturally it remains within that circle.

Moon is also one such asteroid only.  When it entered after crossing mostly 6 lanes, curvature increased and it simply yielded.  Moon is having its own Gravity field, so it started spinning against its axis.  Any asteroid that enters, initially yields to energy pressure and lose weight and will be thrown to inertial position. 

When Moon entered gravity field of Earth, both tug on each other, in fact both are in inertial position.  Energy within the lane is moving, it created pressure/force on the curvature and both started rotating against each other and also moved along the lane.  In case for any reason if the moon crosses this lane, it becomes independent planet, unless other planet influences it. 

In this universe each solar system is independent unit.

Rotation and revolution of planet:
Suppose we have sent a rocket into space.  There is potential energy stored in the space.  It start concentrating against rocket and curves the spacetime around the rocket and  throws it into inertial position.  Now rocket is in free state.   There is curvature of spacetime but there is no Gravity.  This curvature now start interacting with Gravity from Earth and Sun.  Strong energy waves coming from Sun pushes it and it start rotating against Earth Gravity waves.
In the case of planets it is different and there is Gravity.  Gravity waves will be moving out to far reaching places.  Energy rays coming from Sun interacts with these Gravity waves of planet, bents and enters planets atmosphere.  Meanwhile a movementum is gained and it starts rotating against its axis. 

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 07/07/2019 18:25:13
Friends,

It is true that science developed a lot.  We know several things and we are able to carry out research in space and we are sending rockets to other planets. 

I think there is every need to revise the present existing theories.  I don't think it is so good, going by ants perception,  trampoline  analogy.  Ok, they may be correct, let us discuss to have "What exactly is gravity".

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 08/07/2019 03:04:27
Total energy released by an atom bomb mainly depends on:
01  Internal energy
02  Gravity in a particular  place.
Suppose if we detonate the same atom bomb on Moon:
01  Internal energy is same.
02  Gravity is just 1/6th only

Since gravity is weak, curvature of space time by the closed volume is also weak. “eddies” into space time slows down and it spreads up to limited area only.

Suppose if the same atomic bomb is detonated in space, outside Earth’s climate: Here there is sufficient energy but it is not present with any force i.e., free state and thus even though there is inward as well outward thrust explosion is limited. 

We've been over this in a previous thread. Gravity has nothing to do with how powerful a nuclear reaction is.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 13/07/2019 16:03:07
Mr Kryptid
Newton viewed space as absolute.  To prove this he has taken water in a bucket tied it with thread and spin it with maximum speed and water started raising against the walls of the bucket.  He thought that this is the way space is formed. 

It is true that Newton has carried out this experiment in a strong Gravity field only and it is influencing his bucket, water therein.  When he spin it, due to acceleration water relaxed from Gravity and started raising against walls.
Can we take this experiment for the formation of space.  It is true that Earth is not spinning against Gravity but Gravity itself hooked Earth and making it to move.  Suppose if the Earth rotates against Gravity, water may raise but what about nature?. 

It is true that any theory mainly depends on the Science progress as on that date.  This incident happened in 17th Century and therefore it was right as on that date since there were no space shuttles and no rockets were sent into the space.

Ok let us imagine that Earth is in inertial position.  As per Newton’s first law of motion, any object remains in inertial position unless a force or pressure is acted upon it.  Here Earth cannot move by itself, unless there is a force.  So, Gravity is the force which is making Earth to spin on its axis.

At the dawn of 20th century particle physics played key role.  Each elementary particle curves the space time.  Energy level of particle surprised scientists.  Einstein realized that when an elementary particles curves the space time what about huge mass such as Earth.
 
“Gravity is not an attractive force between masses but pressure force exerted by spacetime”.

Ok, if we move to 2d space time, which is empty and elementary particle never curves the space time.  Here there is no Gravity at all.  All particles move from one place to other place with maximum speed.  Particle A and B never meet each other unless they enter 4d space time. 

Suppose if the elementary particle exhibits same energy level at all places there must be curvature even in 2d space time.  Irrelevant to space time 2d or 4d atom, must explode similar way.  In a 2d space time, there is no outside pressure of energy,  so elementary particle such as electrons behaves differently. 

Any explosion mainly depends on the pressure or force exerted by space time.  Elementary particle released from the atom must meet its counterpart, which is possible in a gravity field only.  More particles in the open area means more explosion.  “Eddies” also mainly depends on the pressure/force exerted by space time. 

If we explode one ton atomic bomb:

Its internal energy is far limited.  If the same is in 2d space, elementary particles comes out but they can not meet its counterpart as there is no gravity and moves out. 

But in a 4d space time such as Earth, due to Gravity they can meet other counter part and it paves the way for chain reaction.  “Eddies” in the space time mainly depends on the pressure or force with which space time is present. 
In a empty space time, there are no particles in the open area and thus no explosion at all.

Ok, how far it is correct to rely on “thought experiment”. 

Friends, it is not criticizing Newton or Einstein.

Yours
Psreddy

Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 13/07/2019 21:57:56
Newton viewed space as absolute.

He was wrong.

Gravity is the force which is making Earth to spin on its axis.

No it isn't. The fact that the matter that the Earth formed from was moving, combined with conservation of momentum, is what makes the Earth spin.

Any explosion mainly depends on the pressure or force exerted by space time.

No it doesn't. You just made that up.

Elementary particle released from the atom must meet its counterpart, which is possible in a gravity field only.

What does that even mean?

In a empty space time, there are no particles in the open area and thus no explosion at all.

Atomic bombs obviously aren't empty. They are filled with fissile material.

Friends, it is not criticizing Newton or Einstein.

If you are claiming that explosions generate less energy further away from a gravitational field then you are criticizing Einstein because you are saying that E=mc2 is incorrect. No part of that equation depends upon the local strength of gravity.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: jeffreyH on 14/07/2019 01:14:21
@pasala You type a lot. Copious paragraphs of garbled nonsense. Doesn't it get tiring?

Being a science enthusiast is not about finding the one thing that all the scientists overlooked and being a hero. It is about listening, learning and knowing when you are wrong.

If you actually applied your energies to learning, then you might actually understand some of the unsolved mysteries of science, instead of just making them up.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 14/07/2019 12:53:06
Total energy released by an atom bomb mainly depends on:
01  Internal energy
02  Gravity in a particular  place.
Suppose if we detonate the same atom bomb on Moon:
01  Internal energy is same.
02  Gravity is just 1/6th only

Since gravity is weak, curvature of space time by the closed volume is also weak. “eddies” into space time slows down and it spreads up to limited area only.

Suppose if the same atomic bomb is detonated in space, outside Earth’s climate: Here there is sufficient energy but it is not present with any force i.e., free state and thus even though there is inward as well outward thrust explosion is limited. 

We've been over this in a previous thread. Gravity has nothing to do with how powerful a nuclear reaction is.

Of course not , gravity is the weaker nuclear force emitted ,  the proton and electrons bond forming a convergence of opposites by the strong nuclear force ,  as a result creating a third  weaker convergence force , gravity .
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 14/07/2019 12:59:36
@pasala You type a lot. Copious paragraphs of garbled nonsense. Doesn't it get tiring?

Being a science enthusiast is not about finding the one thing that all the scientists overlooked and being a hero. It is about listening, learning and knowing when you are wrong.

If you actually applied your energies to learning, then you might actually understand some of the unsolved mysteries of science, instead of just making them up.
It appears "Text books" are your vein, blood everything. 
Thanks for your advise.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: jeffreyH on 14/07/2019 13:50:31
@pasala Think about it. You have nothing to lose. At the moment you are just opening yourself up to ridicule. You could be gaining knowledge and actually participating in a positive way. You may think the price is not worth paying. If that is the case you are wasting your time. You only get one life. Your choice.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 14/07/2019 14:12:19
“Gravitation is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by spacetime on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other”.

“It is true that all elementary particles pushes their surroundings and produces convex curvature.  If we replace two or more closed volumes, pressure against them increases and the same was experimentally proved”.

When an atom is detonated, do this pressure force exerted by space time is absent.  It is true that nuclear force is strong and there is no doubt about that. 

 We are studying ‘Gravity’ and ‘nuclear force’ as two different subjects. 

It is true that each and every closed volume curves the spacetime. 

Basic thing is can we ignore this pressure force exerted by spacetime in nuclear explosion.

Here science is 'hero' and we are all players.
 
Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 14/07/2019 14:28:09
“Gravitation is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by spacetime on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other”.

“It is true that all elementary particles pushes their surroundings and produces convex curvature.  If we replace two or more closed volumes, pressure against them increases and the same was experimentally proved”.

When an atom is detonated, do this pressure force exerted by space time is absent.  It is true that nuclear force is strong and there is no doubt about that. 

 We are studying ‘Gravity’ and ‘nuclear force’ as two different subjects. 

It is true that each and every closed volume curves the spacetime. 

Basic thing is can we ignore this pressure force exerted by spacetime in nuclear explosion.

Here science is 'hero' and we are all players.
 
Yours
Psreddy

You are incorrect , gravity is an attractive force between masses that have a greater density than the Higgs field mass .

The causality of gravity between masses being the weaker nuclear force that expands from the denser particle over an infinite distance , the Higgs field being the aether of propagation that has 0 permeability or opposing force to the weaker nuclear force field propagation , the reason is that it is likewise . In comparison , mixing water with water .
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 14/07/2019 15:17:27
Of course not , gravity is the weaker nuclear force emitted ,  the proton and electrons bond forming a convergence of opposites by the strong nuclear force ,  as a result creating a third  weaker convergence force , gravity .

That's not how that works.

If we replace two or more closed volumes, pressure against them increases and the same was experimentally proved

By what experiment?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 14/07/2019 15:46:48
Of course not , gravity is the weaker nuclear force emitted ,  the proton and electrons bond forming a convergence of opposites by the strong nuclear force ,  as a result creating a third  weaker convergence force , gravity .

That's not how it works

You are incorrect ,  that is exactly how it works . Perhaps you are mistaking the gravity effect of large dense masses on the Higgs field i.e space time curvature and Newton gravity ?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 14/07/2019 16:02:08
Of course not , gravity is the weaker nuclear force emitted ,  the proton and electrons bond forming a convergence of opposites by the strong nuclear force ,  as a result creating a third  weaker convergence force , gravity .

That's not how that works.

If we replace two or more closed volumes, pressure against them increases and the same was experimentally proved

By what experiment?

Please try to acquire the knowledge of recent developments.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 14/07/2019 16:02:52
Ok, we will meet next week end. Bye
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 15/07/2019 01:10:34
You are incorrect ,  that is exactly how it works .

Electrons don't even interact via the strong nuclear force. The bond between a proton and electron in an atom is mediated by the electromagnetic force. Also, mass is not correlated to either of the nuclear forces, so you can't say that gravity is somehow caused by the nuclear forces.

Please try to acquire the knowledge of recent developments.

You're going to need to be more specific than that. I can't read your mind.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 15/07/2019 12:12:26
You are incorrect ,  that is exactly how it works .

Electrons don't even interact via the strong nuclear force. The bond between a proton and electron in an atom is mediated by the electromagnetic force. Also, mass is not correlated to either of the nuclear forces, so you can't say that gravity is somehow caused by the nuclear forces.



According to who ?

You mean it doesn't mention this in any of the text books?

The universe is not an electrical universe , it is an atomic energy universe with atomic matter /particles  and atomic fields .


Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 15/07/2019 13:22:17
According to who ?

According to existing scientific evidence. Electrons are leptons, and as Britannica says, leptons "are not affected by the strong force" : https://www.britannica.com/science/lepton . Unlike protons and neutrons, they do not bind together because they do not have the strong nuclear force.

You mean it doesn't mention this in any of the text books?

Doesn't mention what? The stuff you made up? No, it doesn't.

The universe is not an electrical universe , it is an atomic energy universe with atomic matter /particles  and atomic fields .

It has all of those things. You're not denying the existing of electricity, are you?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 15/07/2019 13:43:49
According to who ?

According to existing scientific evidence. Electrons are leptons, and as Britannica says, leptons "are not affected by the strong force" : https://www.britannica.com/science/lepton . Unlike protons and neutrons, they do not bind together because they do not have the strong nuclear force.

You mean it doesn't mention this in any of the text books?

Doesn't mention what? The stuff you made up? No, it doesn't.

The universe is not an electrical universe , it is an atomic energy universe with atomic matter /particles  and atomic fields .

It has all of those things. You're not denying the existing of electricity, are you?
Electricity is a product , it is not something that exists fundamentally .

The strong nuclear force between protons and electrons  is the opposites of polarity .

An electron is not attracted to another electron and a proton is not attracted to another proton , the are relative massless and have no strong nuclear force in consideration of the relativity of likewise polarity .

The strong nuclear force only applies when two opposite polarity particles are involved .

However , when two opposite polarity particles  combine to form a stable particle , the convergence of the two individual , opposite polarity particles , forms a new combined force of the two individual forces ,a third force namely gravity .

Although the combining of an electron and a proton cancel out charge signs , that does not automatically mean that the attractive force is cancelled , it simply means the summation of attractive force is weakened .
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 15/07/2019 13:46:04
Electricity is a product , it is not something that exists fundamentally .

The strong nuclear force between protons and electrons  is the opposites of polarity .

An electron is not attracted to another electron and a proton is not attracted to another proton , the are relative massless and have no strong nuclear force in consideration of the relativity of likewise polarity .

The strong nuclear force only applies when two opposite polarity particles are involved .

However , when two opposite polarity particles  combine to form a stable particle , the convergence of the two individual , opposite polarity particles , forms a new combined force of the two individual forces ,a third force namely gravity .

Although the combining of an electron and a proton cancel out charge signs , that does not automatically mean that the attractive force is cancelled , it simply means the summation of attractive force is weakened .

I'm starting to suspect that you are Thebox...
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 15/07/2019 14:40:38
Electricity is a product , it is not something that exists fundamentally .

The strong nuclear force between protons and electrons  is the opposites of polarity .

An electron is not attracted to another electron and a proton is not attracted to another proton , the are relative massless and have no strong nuclear force in consideration of the relativity of likewise polarity .

The strong nuclear force only applies when two opposite polarity particles are involved .

However , when two opposite polarity particles  combine to form a stable particle , the convergence of the two individual , opposite polarity particles , forms a new combined force of the two individual forces ,a third force namely gravity .

Although the combining of an electron and a proton cancel out charge signs , that does not automatically mean that the attractive force is cancelled , it simply means the summation of attractive force is weakened .

I'm starting to suspect that you are Thebox...


No , I don't think the Universe is an enclosed system , what gave that impression ?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/07/2019 15:56:06
No , I don't think the Universe is an enclosed system , what gave that impression ?
Nothing gave the impression that you think the universe is a closed system (BTW, it is) .
But the stuff you post gives the impression you are either  TheBox or a similar troll
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 15/07/2019 16:18:46
No , I don't think the Universe is an enclosed system , what gave that impression ?
Nothing gave the impression that you think the universe is a closed system (BTW, it is) .
But the stuff you post gives the impression you are either  TheBox or a similar troll
Hmmm , who are you exactly ?
I could accuse you of likewise as you have a fake profile that is not your real name also.

I don't know you , if you have no science to discuss , I'm not interested .
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/07/2019 16:24:48
if you have no science to discuss , I'm not interested .
You have made it clear that you are either unwilling or unable to discuss science.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: G on 15/07/2019 16:43:41
if you have no science to discuss , I'm not interested .
You have made it clear that you are either unwilling or unable to discuss science.
You've made two posts towards me in which neither have been science .
Do you understand anything about science ? Specifically the subject of gravity and gravitational force? 

I very much doubt you do !

Please go find somebody else to bother with your trolling . 

Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/07/2019 17:39:06
You asked a question. "what gave that impression ?"

I answered it. "Nothing gave the impression ..."

That's science.
I also corrected your error about the universe being a closed system.
That's science too.
On the other hand, this
Electricity is a product , it is not something that exists fundamentally .

The strong nuclear force between protons and electrons  is the opposites of polarity .
Is unscientific nonsense.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 21/07/2019 07:25:59
Here most of the discussion is on:

E = mc2:

E = mc2 is a part of Special Relativity. However, despite the fact that the calculus is quite simple, Modern Physics does not propose a rational explanation of this strange phenomenon.The Spacetime Model demonstrates that the principle of converting mass to energy is very simple. This principle is shown by the following example.
•   Part A
An empty sphere is immerged in a container filled with water. The surface of water is quiet.
•   Part B
If the sphere disappears suddenly by a thought experiment, the depression will make eddies which have energy (E = hν). Converting a mass to energy follows the same principle. A closed volume disappears, and is transformed into an open volume. This produces "eddies" in spacetime, which are gamma rays.


Ok, let us discuss Gravity:

If it is 2d Space time:

1)  It is completely empty.
2) Particles move from one place to other with maximum speed.
3)  Particles never stay at any place.

Here if we explode an atom bomb:

Here space time is completely empty.  Energy coming out due to atomic explosion moves at.  There is no explosion, no eddies in the space time.

If it is 4d Space time:

1) Spacetime is not empty.
2)  Particles moving from one place to other meets the other particles, Gravity is the reason as per Newton.

So, 4d Space time is completely filled with particles. In my view, huge potential energy is stored on Earth.

Suppose if 1 ton atom bomb is exploded:

1)  In this fissile material is very small.
2)  Further energy stored within fissile material is very, very small.

When it is exploded small amount of energy stored within fissile material is freed.  We have to remember an important point that it is additional energy only.  It is true that energy is neither created nor destroyed it only can be modified one form to other.  This additional energy, freed from atoms tries to make room and pushes the existing energy.  This results in raising of radiation and creates eddies into space time.

*  Conversion of total mass to energy is wrong.
*  Thought experiment is incorrect.

Everything is happening before us. 

These are all effects of Gravity only.

But ‘What exactly is 'Gravity’ is a big puzzle.  It is true that all elementary particles curves the space time.  It is practically proved.  Isn’t this experiment done in Gravity field. 

As per Einstein, Space time is warping the things on the Earth.

Yours
Psreddy


Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 21/07/2019 17:52:19
However, despite the fact that the calculus is quite simple, Modern Physics does not propose a rational explanation of this strange phenomenon.

It is understood why E=mc2:
If the sphere disappears suddenly by a thought experiment, the depression will make eddies which have energy (E = hν). Converting a mass to energy follows the same principle. A closed volume disappears, and is transformed into an open volume. This produces "eddies" in spacetime, which are gamma rays.

According to what experiment?

1)  It is completely empty.
2) Particles move from one place to other with maximum speed.
3)  Particles never stay at any place.

If it's completely empty, then there aren't any particles in it that can move.

*  Conversion of total mass to energy is wrong.
*  Thought experiment is incorrect.

Nobody said that atomic bombs convert total mass to energy. Mass isn't converted to energy anyway. Both the total mass and the total energy of a system remains constant. What atomic bombs do is convert potential energy into kinetic energy.

These are all effects of Gravity only.

You keep saying that but you have yet to demonstrate it.

I'm also still waiting for you to tell me what experiment it was that supported your assertion here:

Quote
“It is true that all elementary particles pushes their surroundings and produces convex curvature.  If we replace two or more closed volumes, pressure against them increases and the same was experimentally proved”.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 28/07/2019 07:31:43
Mr. Kryptid

What is moving at the speed of light.  .  How potential energy is converted into so much of kinetic energy.  Why speed of light C2 is used and how it works. 

What exactly is gaining Kinetic energy.  Whether it is the atoms or the energy released therefrom. 

Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/07/2019 09:36:01
E = mc2 is a part of Special Relativity. However, despite the fact that the calculus is quite simple, Modern Physics does not propose a rational explanation of this strange phenomenon.The Spacetime Model demonstrates that the principle of converting mass to energy is very simple. This principle is shown by the following example.
•   Part A
An empty sphere is immerged in a container filled with water. The surface of water is quiet.
•   Part B
If the sphere disappears suddenly by a thought experiment, the depression will make eddies which have energy (E = hν). Converting a mass to energy follows the same principle. A closed volume disappears, and is transformed into an open volume. This produces "eddies" in spacetime, which are gamma rays.


Ok, let us discuss Gravity:

No.
You can't just post gibberish and then say "OK, let's move to something else".
You need to explain the evidence behind your ideas.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 28/07/2019 17:59:37
Question: is the question mark key on your keyboard broken?

What is moving at the speed of light.
Quote
Why speed of light C2 is used and how it works.

Nothing is necessarily moving at the speed of light. It is that the derivation of the equation depends upon the fact that the mass of an object changes as it nears the speed of light: http://www.emc2-explained.info/Emc2/Derive.htm#.XT3Pm2hKjrc

Quote
How potential energy is converted into so much of kinetic energy.

That depends upon the specific scenario. The conversion of potential energy into kinetic energy depends upon the action of one of the four fundamental forces. In the case of an unstable nucleus splitting into two smaller nuclei, the electrical repulsion between the nuclei is what converts the potential energy into kinetic energy.

Quote
What exactly is gaining Kinetic energy.  Whether it is the atoms or the energy released therefrom.

The kinetic energy is gained by whatever the reaction products are. If it is a uranium nucleus undergoing fission, then the kinetic energy is gained by the resulting nuclei and neutrons produced.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 28/07/2019 18:31:53
E = mc2 is a part of Special Relativity. However, despite the fact that the calculus is quite simple, Modern Physics does not propose a rational explanation of this strange phenomenon.The Spacetime Model demonstrates that the principle of converting mass to energy is very simple. This principle is shown by the following example.
•   Part A
An empty sphere is immerged in a container filled with water. The surface of water is quiet.
•   Part B
If the sphere disappears suddenly by a thought experiment, the depression will make eddies which have energy (E = hν). Converting a mass to energy follows the same principle. A closed volume disappears, and is transformed into an open volume. This produces "eddies" in spacetime, which are gamma rays.


Ok, let us discuss Gravity:

No.
You can't just post gibberish and then say "OK, let's move to something else".
You need to explain the evidence behind your ideas.

I don't think it is correct to use that word.  It is collected from research papers submitted to a famous university on Space time. 

E=MC2  formula states that the equivalent energy (E) can be calculated as the mass (m) multiplied by the speed of light (c = ~3×108 m/s) squared. Similarly, anything having energy exhibits a corresponding mass m given by its energy E divided by the speed of light squared c2
"Nuclear fission is the process of splitting apart nuclei (usually large nuclei). When large nuclei, such as uranium-235, fissions, energy is released.[2] So much energy is released that there is a measurable decrease in mass, from the mass-energy equivalence. This means that some of the mass is converted to energy. The amount of mass lost in the fission process is equal to about 3.20×10−11 J of energy".

Basic thing is how this potential energy is converted to kinetic energy.  What i am saying is that there is huge energy already present in the open area. Further i reiterated that it is the basic reason for Gravity.  At present it is opined that there is no such energy in the open area. 

Ok, it doesn't matter.  I cannot prove it.  It is just an attempt to give an idea to scientists that there is something which is responsible for all this.  Spacetime cannot interact the things on the Earth directly.  If we say that it is warping the things on Earth, means there is something "Medium" by which it is doing. 

Newton rightly accepted this:
In the words of Newton itself “Gravity must be caused by an agent acting constantly according to certain laws; but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I have left to the consideration of my readers”  Isaac Newton.

Gravitation is (locally) equivalent to acceleration. “This is the principle of equivalence”.

So relativity says, Gravity is equivalent to  acceleration.  When you are in inertial position, this medium is present and when you accelerates or speeds up, slowly it weakens. 

Hereby, my humble request to scientists is that, it may be or may not be correct, keep this in mind while carrying out research.  Test small quantities of TNT in different Gravity fields, notice variations, if there is change, it is a step forward. 

Well, see that most of the PE is converted to KE in the open area only. 

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 28/07/2019 18:42:14
Question: is the question mark key on your keyboard broken?

What is moving at the speed of light.
Quote
Why speed of light C2 is used and how it works.

Nothing is necessarily moving at the speed of light. It is that the derivation of the equation depends upon the fact that the mass of an object changes as it nears the speed of light: http://www.emc2-explained.info/Emc2/Derive.htm#.XT3Pm2hKjrc

Quote
How potential energy is converted into so much of kinetic energy.

That depends upon the specific scenario. The conversion of potential energy into kinetic energy depends upon the action of one of the four fundamental forces. In the case of an unstable nucleus splitting into two smaller nuclei, the electrical repulsion between the nuclei is what converts the potential energy into kinetic energy.

Quote
What exactly is gaining Kinetic energy.  Whether it is the atoms or the energy released therefrom.

The kinetic energy is gained by whatever the reaction products are. If it is a uranium nucleus undergoing fission, then the kinetic energy is gained by the resulting nuclei and neutrons produced.
Thank you.  But nothing new.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/07/2019 18:59:37
I don't think it is correct to use that word.  It is collected from research papers submitted to a famous university on Space time. 
Cite the paper that says this
A closed volume disappears, and is transformed into an open volume. This produces "eddies" in spacetime, which are gamma rays.

or accept that it is gibberish.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 28/07/2019 19:06:00
Why Gravity is weak force?
:
Some of the enthusiastic people telephoned me, why Gravity is weak force when compared to strong nuclear force. 

That is right question.  It is true that Gravity is the weakest when compared to other forces such as strong nuclear force and electromagnetic force. 

Let us see the process:
1)  Total nuclear fission takes place within short area and its area is limited.
2)  Electromagnetic charge arises only when you charge a particular cable.

Where as Gravity is different.  Well, according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, massive objects warp the spacetime around them, and the effect a warp has on objects is what we call gravity. So, locally, spacetime is curved around every object with mass.

This curvature is in wide area.  What my theory says "this curvature is nothing but potential energy".  Energy is having an important quality of moving from high to low.  This is the reason why it is equivalent to acceleration.

So, naturally pooling or concentration of energy at a particular place is impossible. 

Actually there is no difference in between these three forces.  They are inter-related and inter-connected to each other. 

If research is taken up, it is not so difficult and big break-through can be achieved very easily.   

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Bored chemist on 28/07/2019 19:57:47
Actually there is no difference in between these three forces. 
Yes there is.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 29/07/2019 02:10:31
2)  Electromagnetic charge arises only when you charge a particular cable.

No it doesn't. Net electric charge is a conserved quantity that cannot be created or destroyed. Electrons are always charged, no matter where they are or what they are doing.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 12/08/2019 16:10:29
This, in a nutshell, then, is the General Theory of Relativity, and its central premise is that the curvature of space-time is directly determined by the distribution of matter and energy contained within it. What complicates things, however, is that the distribution of matter and energy is in turn governed by the curvature of space, leading to a feedback loop and a lot of very complex mathematics. Thus, the presence of mass/energy determines the geometry of space, and the geometry of space determines the motion of mass/energy

Please remember that this is the base for General relativity.   Curvature of space time is directly determined by the distribution of matter and energy contained within it.  Suppose if it is empty no curvature at all. 

When an atom bomb is detonated, energy, afresh is released into open area.  This is additional energy only.  It pushes the existing energy leading to eddies in the space time. 

Please remember total energy is not coming from the atom bomb. 

Ok, it is very difficult or impossible to prove it, but it is appearing before us.  If an atom bomb is detonated in empty space, 2d, where no matter and energy exists, small amount of energy released makes no wonders, moves out.

Suppose if it is on Moon where gravity is weak and thus curvature of space time, and  distribution of matter and energy.  Here additional energy released into the space is same, however energy present in the open area is weak and thus eddies.

Friends, don't search text books, this is purely mine, "New" theory/idea only.

Yours
Psreddy


Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 12/08/2019 19:21:23
Suppose if it is empty no curvature at all.

Then there wouldn't be any matter or energy present at all and therefore you can't have an atomic bomb there either. If the bomb was there, then the space wouldn't be empty.

It pushes the existing energy leading to eddies in the space time. 

Evidence needed.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 15/08/2019 16:49:02
I think it is better to have clear idea on "what exactly is gravity" and how it is working on Earth and then to go for black holes which is not appearing  or existing before us.  When we are not in a position to stand or walk how can one expect to run.

There is curvature on Earth.  As per General relativity mass curves space time and curved space tells mass how to move.  It is practically proved that all elementary particles curves the space time around them.  We are all living in this curved paths and thus Gravity.

The key idea of Einstein's theory of general relativity is that gravity is not an ordinary force, but rather a property of space-time geometry.

It is also true that Gravity is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by space time on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other.

There is curvature against mass and hence it is opined that mass curves the space.  But this practical experiment was done in a gravity field. 

Another important point is that distribution of mass/energy decides curvature.  Suppose if there is no mass or energy in the open area, there is no curvature at all.

So we can draw a conclusion that it is not the mass alone that decides curvature of space time. 

It is the distribution of mass and energy that decides curvature.

Suppose if there is no energy in the open area, particles can do nothing or curve.

So, finally it is the energy present in the space that decides curvature.

Ok, without pooling or concentration of potential energy at a place mass cannot curve the space time and thus Gravity.

Initially, before formation of our Solar system also energy started spreading in a wide area.   

In the bowling ball and rubber sheet analogy also, what exactly is working as rubber sheet.  It is nothing but energy only.

One’s energy came into existence, Earth like a bowling ball entered it.    Initially there is no Gravity at all.  Energy curved the Earth.  This is like our satellites which are being sent into space.  Here there is curvature of space time but there is no Gravity. 

Particles raising from Earth paved way for warping of space time.

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 25/08/2019 18:43:18
Trampoline analogy:
“Consider a very large trampoline with nothing on the trampoline pad and trampoline pad remains flat and parallel to the ground. Now place a heavy bowling ball at the center of the trampoline pad. The center of the pad will sag downward. If we assume the analogy that the trampoline pad represents space-time, and the bowling ball a gravitating object, then the sagging of the trampoline represents the curvature of space time under the influence of gravity. We can now see that if we take a lighter ball, and place it at the edge of the trampoline pad, it will roll down toward the bowling ball. This attraction to the bowling ball is because the path toward the bowling ball through space is favorably curved”.
   
Well, here in this analogy there are several important things to be discussed.  Whatever Einstein assumed is 100% correct.  However he could not explain what exactly is working as trampoline.  I think it is the base for “what exactly is gravity”.  Suppose if it is a 2d space time, trampoline will not dip and thus curvature of space time against mass. Ok, if it is 4d space time, trampoline automatically dips and mass curves space time. 

Simply saying that, if we place a huge mass in space, it curves the space time is insufficient or incorrect. It must tell us the exact medium by which it is happening.

In the words of Newton:
“Gravity must be caused by an agent acting constantly according to certain laws; but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I have left to the consideration of my readers”.

As per General relativity curvature of space time mainly depends on the distribution of mass/energy.  In a 2d space time there is no mass/energy and thus trampoline is flat. 

So, once again I reiterate that it is the energy in the space that decides curvature.

At present it is opined that space is empty and total energy is coming from Sun.

In 1 second the Sun generates 3.8 x 1026 Joules of energy.  Ok, then what about the energy generated in 1 minute and in one hour and in one day.  Suppose let us assume that Sun produced “X” amount of energy in a 24 hour day.  On the very next second of the second day, it again pumps in  3.8 x 1026 Joules of energy. 

It is true that “Energy is neither created nor destroyed” it can only be modified into one form to other.  Each second energy generated by Sun is just additional only. 

The atmosphere of the Sun consists of 3 layers the photosphere, the chromosphere and the corona. Energy produced from Sun is transferred from the core through the successive layers.  One more important is that these layers extend up to the end of Solar system and energy transfers from one layer to the other and each subsequent layer is weakest when compared to previous one. . 

Here an important point is that Space is not empty.   Each second energy generated by Sun is just additional only.  It only pushes existing energy in the space.  Sun energy is not creating layers, it only maintaining existing layers.

This energy in the space is working as trampoline cloth.  In case if there is no mass/energy, space turns out as 2d.

When a huge mass such as Earth is placed in the space, energy nearby moves and curves the space time and throws it into inertial position.  It is true that energy is of object oriented. 

Similar thing is happening in the case of satellites also.  When a satellite is placed in the space, space time of the satellite is curved and throws it into inertial position. 

Curvature of the space time only throws the mass to inertial position, but it cannot give Gravity.  Of course gravity is different.  It must be warped by the space time.

Newton's First Law states that an object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an external force. 

No curved space time tells mass how to move and it will remain in inertial position unless a force is acted upon it.  No curved paths exists in the space. 

Each layer of energy is a path.  Masses moves along these layers.  There is a flow of energy in these lanes.  It is creating pressure or force against curvature and thus rotation and revolution.   In this process it moves ups and downs but never crosses lane.

Here, as assumed by Newton there is a medium, “energy”  playing key role. 

Yours
Psreddy

Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 10/09/2019 18:38:15
This is the Acid test for the theory proposed by me:
“The inner planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars) are relatively small rocky planets made up mostly of silicate minerals and iron and nickel metal. Most of the earth is made up of only three elements: iron, silicon, and oxygen. Most of the iron is in the core of the earth. Most of the oxygen is locked up in minerals with silicon. In fact, the mineral quartz is made up of only silicon and oxygen. The inner planets are relatively small and mostly solid, though earth has a thin atmosphere made up mostly of nitrogen and oxygen gases.
The outer planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune) have much different compositions. They all have solid cores of rock, metal, and maybe even ice, but these planets are totally enveloped in thick atmospheres of gas. Hydrogen and Helium (the two lightest elements) make up most of the gases in the atmospheres of these planets”.

At present we are of the opinion that atmosphere of Sun consists of 3 layers, but I had proposed 8 to 9 layers and energy is being transferred from one layer to other and each subsequent layer is weaker and thus curvature of space time.

In the Outer planets region, energy is weak and thus no rocky planets can exist.  Suppose if an asteroid consisting hard rock enters our solar system.  In the outer region, energy is weak, still it curves the space time of the asteroid.   However it cannot through it into inertial position and thus it continues its journey and enters next layer.  In all outer region where energy is weak, it crosses them and enters inner region.

Here in the inner region, energy is spread thickly and thus curvature against asteroid.  But it depends on the speed with which it was travelling, since gravity is equal to acceleration. 

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 10/09/2019 22:48:51
In the Outer planets region, energy is weak and thus no rocky planets can survive.

What? Do they explode out there or something?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 11/09/2019 02:11:26
In the Outer planets region, energy is weak and thus no rocky planets can survive.

What? Do they explode out there or something?
Oh, sorry it is an incorrect word used by me.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: comingdwindling on 13/09/2019 06:55:52
Gravity is a force of attraction that exists between any two masses, any two bodies, any two particles. Gravity is not just the attraction between objects and the Earth. It is an attraction that exists between all objects, everywhere in the universe. Sir Isaac Newton discovered that a force is required to change the speed or direction of movement of an object. He also realized that the force called "gravity" must make an apple fall from a tree, or humans and animals live on the surface of our spinning planet without being flung off. Furthermore, he deduced that gravity forces exist between all objects.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Colin2B on 13/09/2019 15:20:32
And ............?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 13/09/2019 17:13:19
Oh, sorry it is an incorrect word used by me.

I don't understand your reasoning. Why do you say that rocky planets cannot exist far out in the Solar System whereas gas giants can? What distance do you propose is the limit for the existence for rocky planets? What about gas giants? Icy bodies?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 15/09/2019 16:29:36
“Tμν is a mathematical object (a tensor to be precise) which describes material bodies. In that mathematical object, there are some parameters such as the density, the momentum, mass-energy... etc. So it is those parameters that determine 'how much space-time curvature' is around a body. And one of the parameters is of course energy. Therefore, energy do bend space-time”.

That is the core of Einstein. 

If we replace the closed volume by two or more closed volumes, the pressure exerted by spacetime on these volumes tends to bring them closer to each other. The result is equivalent to an attraction. For example, a pressure on one side of a sheet of paper is equivalent to an attraction on the other side. In both cases, the sheet is curved.
Gravitation is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by spacetime on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other.

So curvature of space time is caused by energy.  In the trampoline analogy also, energy in the space time is working as trampoline.  When we place a bowling ball, the space time of the bowling ball is curved. 

Science is developed a lot. At present we are sending satellites into space.  The space time of the satellite is curved and there is sufficient energy to cause this action.  It is causing a mass effect.    This is what happening to our Earth also. 

Suppose if there is no energy in the space time, it turns out as 2d or flat.  However it is true that Sun is pumping huge energy into space.  It is true that energy is neither created nor destroyed.  Now at present scientists have identified that there are 3 layers in the atmosphere of Sun. 

But I propose that total energy of Sun in the space is spread in the form of layers only.  It is like a rainbow.  Each color of the rainbow is an energy source only.  As that of rainbow I propose 7 to 8 layers of sun energy in the space time. 

As we move away from Sun, energy weakens.  Curvature of space time mainly depends on the distribution of mass/energy in the open area.   

When an asteroid enters our solar system, it all depends on the matter contained therein.  First of all we have to remember that there is no gravity here. Energy in the space moves towards the asteroid and curves and try to throw it into inertial position.  Here in the outer planets region, energy present in the layers is weak and thus mass effect. 

It is true that each and every closed volume curves the space time.  If the asteroid is gaseous form, mass effect is limited.  Though energy is weak, it is sufficient to cause and threw it into inertial position. 

If the asteroid  is rocky type, since mass effect is limited it crosses outer region and enters inner region. 

Yours
Psreddy

Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 15/09/2019 17:35:00
I couldn't make any sense out of that reply. Why can an icy body exist far out in the Solar System but not a rocky one? Can you rephrase that?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 22/09/2019 13:59:35
As we move away from Sun, energy weakens.  Curvature of space time mainly depends on the distribution of mass/energy in the open area.   

When an asteroid enters our solar system, it all depends on the matter contained therein.  First of all we have to remember that there is no gravity here. Energy in the space moves towards the asteroid and curves and try to throw it into inertial position.  Here in the outer planets region, energy present in the layers is weak and thus mass effect.

It is true that each and every closed volume curves the space time.  If the asteroid is gaseous form, mass effect is limited.  Though energy is weak, it is sufficient to cause and threw it into inertial position.

If the asteroid  is rocky type, since mass effect is limited it crosses outer region and enters inner region.
Mr Kryptid
It all depends on the mass effect.  At the outer region, since energy is weak mass effect is limited.  However in the case of gaseous planets, each particle can curve the space time and thus they can exist.  In fact weak layers of Sun energy extends even beyond our Solar system.  Here energy is so weak and thus curvature of space time.  At these layers only dust and light particles exists.
Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 22/09/2019 15:06:01
However in the case of gaseous planets, each particle can curve the space time and thus they can exist.

And why do you say that the gas giant can do this whereas rocky planets cannot?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 22/09/2019 15:56:26
Mr Kryptid
As per Einstein Math:
"This, in a nutshell, then, is the General Theory of Relativity, and its central premise is that the curvature of space-time is directly determined by the distribution of matter and energy contained within it. What complicates things, however, is that the distribution of matter and energy is in turn governed by the curvature of space, leading to a feedback loop and a lot of very complex mathematics. Thus, the presence of mass/energy determines the geometry of space, and the geometry of space determines the motion of mass/energy".
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 22/09/2019 18:17:01
That didn't answer my question. Not even close.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 22/09/2019 18:55:26
“Einstein eventually identified the property of spacetime which is responsible for gravity as its curvature. Space and time in Einstein's universe are no longer flat (as implicitly assumed by Newton) but can pushed and pulled, stretched and warped by matter. Gravity feels strongest where spacetime is most curved, and it vanishes where spacetime is flat”.

Gravitation is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by spacetime on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other.

Ok, there is another thinking or possibility that these elementary particles are building blocks and are responsible for Curvature of space time which is not at all correct.

It is true that Earth is a huge mass and space time around Earth is curved.  As per Einstein this is responsible for Gravity.

Well it is true and scientifically proved that all the closed volumes, such as elementary particles produces a convex curvature of space time. 

Suppose let us assume that an elementary particle curved the space time.  Isn’t it true that this elementary particle is already existing in a deformed or curved space. 

Basic question is:
01  Elementary particle exists in a deformed space time only.
02  It is also curving space time.
03  What exactly is the relationship in between these two curvatures.
04  Can we say that both are different.

This is the important point that bothers my mind.  Well, of course any curvature mainly depends on the distribution of mass/energy.  Since mass is equated with energy, let us assume as energy only.

Ok, it is true that there is strong curvature against Earth.  I feel that curvature of Earth is strongly influencing each and every particle. 

Curving the space time by an elementary particle in a curved path to non-curved is different.  This is like, if we are in a big water body, at the surface we will differently when compared to a deep place.  As we move deep, pressure exerted by water increases.

In case if an elementary particle exist in a non-curved paths, do it, curve the space time similarly or differently.

If this is explored properly scientific revolutions will come out.

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 22/09/2019 22:51:48
Are you going to actually answer my question?

And why do you say that the gas giant can do this whereas rocky planets cannot?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 28/09/2019 13:10:56
Gravitation is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by spacetime on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other.

Ok, there is another thinking or possibility that these elementary particles are building blocks and are responsible for Curvature of space time which is not at all correct.
Well, it is true that curvature is different to Gravity.  I could not present the above idea in a better way.  I will try later.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 28/09/2019 18:38:08
Mr Kryptid

I am sure that I had already answered your question. 

There is huge energy in our solar system and it is spread in the form of layers.    At present we have identified 3 layers only.  This is like rainbow where each color represent energy strength.

These energy layers extend even beyond our solar system.  It never extinguishes or disappears suddenly and weak layers extend beyond.  Here only dust particles exists. 

As we move into our outer region, energy strength in the layers start increasing.  Naturally this results in curvature of space time.

Each particle curves the space time around them.  Here there is no gravity.  We have to keep it in mind that curvature of space time is different.  If the particles are spread in wide area, each particle curves the space.  Naturally direct exposure of particles to energy increases. 

Though energy is weak particles are spread in wide area and due to curvature they are thrown into inertial position.   

Mass is the matter an object contains.  As the mass size increases matter contained therein also increases.  Direct exposure of particles to energy decreases.  As the size of mass increases, more energy pressure is needed.  Energy curves the space time of outer layer of the mass only. 

Here in the outer region, unless each and every particle gets into the grip of energy, it cannot be thrown into inertial position. 

Let us imagine that an asteroid entered into our solar system.  At the outer layer itself, there is resistance.  Energy try to curve the space time of the asteroid.   However curvature of space time mainly depends on the matter of the asteroid and speed with which it is travelling. 

In case if it is a gas giant, it is spread in a wide area and more particles are exposed to energy, resulting in curvature.  Though energy is weak particles gets into its grip.  In case if the asteroid is accelerating with lot of speed, it may cross outer region and can enter inner region.  As the curvature increases, radiation raises and gas giant start spreading to wide area.. 

Suppose if it is a 2d space time, it is empty.  There is no mass/energy distribution.  If there is no mass/energy distribution, it never curves the space time of the mass.  Mass gains weight and start moving.  Original weight of the any elementary particle can be assessed here only.

Here on Earth things are different.  Earth is a huge mass and it is already in inner region where energy is present with lot of pressure.  There is strong curvature against Earth.  In addition to this there is Gravity. 

Ok, there is an apple, since there is strong distribution of mass/energy it curves the space time of the apple and throws it into inertial position.  Gravity is nothing but warping of curved space time.  It is being done differently and I don’t want to go deep. 

First of all we have to remember one important point that curvature of space time is different to Gravity. Curvature only throw the mass into inertial position but it mainly depends on mass/energy distribution.

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 28/09/2019 20:44:14
In case if it is a gas giant, it is spread in a wide area and more particles are exposed to energy, resulting in curvature.  Though energy is weak particles gets into its grip.

So what you're saying is that it depends on the density of the planet, is that right?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 29/09/2019 17:59:21
Gravity:
“Einstein eventually identified the property of spacetime which is responsible for gravity as its curvature. Space and time in Einstein's universe are no longer flat (as implicitly assumed by Newton) but can pushed and pulled, stretched and warped by matter. Gravity feels strongest where spacetime is most curved, and it vanishes where spacetime is flat. This is the core of Einstein's theory of general relativity, which is often summed up in words as follows: "matter tells spacetime how to curve, and curved spacetime tells matter how to move". In the same way gravitation in Einstein's theory arises not as a force propagating through spacetime, but rather as a feature of spacetime itself. According to Einstein, your weight on earth is due to the fact that your body is traveling through warped spacetime”

As assumed by Einstein there is strong curvature against Earth.  But Gravity is different, it must be warped by space time. 

Well, of course there is strong curvature against Moon also.  But there is weak Gravity, because it is not warped by space time.  Why space time fails to warp things on Moon.  Moon is also rotating against its axis.  Things on the Moon are also travelling in warped space time only. 

In case if we feel that curvature of space time against Moon is weak then it will not be in inertial position.  Naturally it will gain weight and momentum.  So there is strong curvature against Moon also.

Basic difference is that it is not being warped by space time. 

“To extend this further, let’s imagine a cylindrical carnival ride where you and your fellow passengers are pinned to the outer surface. The cylinder is rotated faster and faster until the acceleration eases and the movement stays constant. But even once the speed is constant, you still feel the accelerated motion—you feel yourself being pinned to the outer edge of the ride. cylindrical ride, that accelerated motion can warp space and time. It is here that Einstein connected the dots to suggest that gravity is the warping of space and time”.

If we take cylindrical carnival ride, this experiment was done in a gravity field.  As the carnival accelerates, due to acceleration gravity comes down and you will be pinned to the outer edge.

Can we take this experiment for Earth.  If this is true, Moon is also rotating with lot of speed why space is not warping.   Here it is not comparing masses but warping of space time only. 

If the acceleration is the only reason, then both are spinning against their axis with almost similar speed.

Science developed a lot, there is every need to rethink cylindrical carnival example.

Energy in the space time curves the masses equally, whether it is Earth, Moon, Mars or Jupiter or any other mass equally.  It puts them in inertial position. 

As per Einstein, if cylindrical carnival example is true then both Earth and Moon must have similar gravity fields.

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 29/09/2019 18:18:13
Yet another long post that didn't answer my question.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 02/10/2019 14:46:44
In case if it is a gas giant, it is spread in a wide area and more particles are exposed to energy, resulting in curvature.  Though energy is weak particles gets into its grip.

So what you're saying is that it depends on the density of the planet, is that right?
that itself is the answer
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 02/10/2019 15:35:08
Collected from KipThorne’s lecture:
“Generalrelativity is Einstein’s law of gravity, his explanation of that fundamental force which holds us to the surface of the Earth. Gravity, Einstein asserted, is caused by a warping of space and time or, in a language we physicists prefer, by a warping of space time. The Earth’s matter produces the warpage, and that warpage in turn is manifest by gravity’s inward tug, toward the Earth’s center. The inward tug is not the only manifestation of space time warpage; the warpage is much richer than that. As we shall see, it curves space, it slows the flow of time, and it drags space into tornado-like motions—at least that is what Einstein’s general relativity predicts”

It’s a great speech indeed. 

However the basic question of “what exactly is warping” and how it is being done is still a big question. 

Ok suppose that it is Earth’s matter then Moon is also having same matter only.  Why only Earth’s matter is warping and why not Moon. 

In case, let us assume that if cylindrical carnival “that accelerated motion” warps the space time.  Both Earth and Moon are spinning against their axis with almost similar speed.

If matter warps the space time, whatever size it may, it must warp similarly.  Here it is not so correct to go “inverse square law”, which was almost ruled out by Einstein.

Science developed a lot, cylindrical carnival ride or matter are only limited arena, there is every need to expand our thinking to different other options.

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 02/10/2019 16:31:01
that itself is the answer

Then what do you propose is the relationship between density and distance from the Sun? Eris is much further from the Sun than Neptune is (67.74 AU vs. 30.11 AU), yet it has a much higher density (2.52 g/cc vs.1.638 g/cc).

Ok suppose that it is Earth’s matter then Moon is also having same matter only.  Why only Earth’s matter is warping and why not Moon. 

The Moon is warping space-time.

Both Earth and Moon are spinning against their axis with almost similar speed.

No they aren't. The Earth spins much faster than the Moon does.

In case, let us assume that if cylindrical carnival “that accelerated motion” warps the space time.

The spin of an object can warp space-time (this is called frame dragging), but a non-spinning object will warp space-time as well.

If matter warps the space time, whatever size it may, it must warp similarly.

What does that mean, exactly?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 02/10/2019 17:27:17
Quote from: pasala on Today at 14:46:44

    that itself is the answer


Then what do you propose is the relationship between density and distance from the Sun? Eris is much further from the Sun than Neptune is (67.74 AU vs. 30.11 AU), yet it has a much higher density (2.52 g/cc vs.1.638 g/cc).
I thought that you are following me.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 02/10/2019 17:30:48
    Ok suppose that it is Earth’s matter then Moon is also having same matter only.  Why only Earth’s matter is warping and why not Moon.


The Moon is warping space-time.

Quote from: pasala on Today at 15:35:08

    Both Earth and Moon are spinning against their axis with almost similar speed.


No they aren't. The Earth spins much faster than the Moon does.

Quote from: pasala on Today at 15:35:08

    In case, let us assume that if cylindrical carnival “that accelerated motion” warps the space time.


The spin of an object can warp space-time (this is called frame dragging), but a non-spinning object will warp space-time as well.

Quote from: pasala on Today at 15:35:08

    If matter warps the space time, whatever size it may, it must warp similarly.


What does that mean, exactly?
I had used words probable or almost but not exact
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 12/10/2019 18:03:43
Quote from: pasala on 02/10/2019 15:35:08

    In case, let us assume that if cylindrical carnival “that accelerated motion” warps the space time.


The spin of an object can warp space-time (this is called frame dragging), but a non-spinning object will warp space-time as well.
"In space, it is possible to create "artificial gravity" by spinning your spacecraft or space station. When the station spins, centrifugal force acts to pull the inhabitants to the outside. This process could be used to simulate gravity. It wouldn't be exactly the same, though, because large Coriolis forces would also be present, and things would fall in curves instead of straight lines".

Well, it is surprise, how a space station, by spinning on its axis creates Gravity.

I think for this theory, cylindrical carnival ride example of Einstein is base:
 “To extend this further, let’s imagine a cylindrical carnival ride where you and your fellow passengers are pinned to the outer surface. The cylinder is rotated faster and faster until the acceleration eases and the movement stays constant. But even once the speed is constant, you still feel the accelerated motion—you feel yourself being pinned to the outer edge of the ride. cylindrical ride, that accelerated motion can warp space and time. It is here that Einstein connected the dots to suggest that gravity is the warping of space and time”.

First of all we have to remember that things on Earth are different, there is  strong Gravity. 

When a cylindrical carnival is rotated, the passengers are pinned to the edges.  Here we are forgetting one important point that:

“Gravity is equal to acceleration”.

For the person at the center, there is no acceleration at all.  Whereas the person at the edges travels full circumference.  As the carnival picks up, Gravity weakens.  The person, say ‘X’, is now gravity free.  Now he carries only original Mass weight and due to air and other forces, he will be moved to the edges and warped at the edges. 

The  relevance to the carnival ride example is Earth.  It is true that Earth is spinning against its axis with lot of speed.  So, Einstein might have thought that similarly things at the edges of the carnival are being warped.  But he forgot his own theory that “Gravity is equal to acceleration”.

If this is true:

“In 1632, even before Newton published his now-famous work, Galileo Galilei wrote about the relative motion of objects familiar in his time: ships. If you are in a closed room on a ship sailing at a constant speed and the ride is perfectly smooth, objects behave as they would on land. There’s no physical experiment you could conduct to tell whether you’re moving or stationary (assuming you’re not peeking out of a porthole). This is the core idea behind relativity, and is the same reason why we don’t feel our planet’s movement around the sun, or our solar system’s movement through the galaxy.

Is there any physical experiment you could do within the confines of your spaceship to tell whether you really were accelerating through space (assuming there were no windows to look out from), or if, instead, you were inside a spaceship stationary on the surface of Earth? Einstein said no—just as Galileo imagined the in distinguishability between a person inside a smooth-sailing ship (confined without windows) and a person on land, Einstein realised that the effects of acceleration and gravity were indistinguishable too”.

“This is called the equivalence principle”,

If the spinning alone is responsible for warping than Galileo’s idea must be wrong and if you are in a closed room of a ship, one must be free from Gravity.  But there is Gravity.  The person inside a closed room, if the ride is smooth will not be in a position to distinguish in between in a closed room and on Earth.

Einstein extended this to Spaceship.  If you are in a spaceship and if it is accelerating through space, you will not be in a position distinguish, on Earth to cabin of spaceship.

Basic idea is that, in distinguishability, closed room of a ship, cabin of space ship to Earth.  Things continued to be same. 

What this indistinguishability tells us, Gravity can be packed.  In a closed room of a ship Gravity is packed.  Inside the spaceship also Gravity is packed. 

The difference is that travelling from Gravity to Non-gravity area.  When the spaceship started accelerating through space, inside the spaceship gravity is packed.  When the spaceship reaches, non-gravity area, slowly gravity disappears.

Thing that is present on Earth is not there in space.  Even if you pack it, it is moving out. 

So, warped space time is present on the Earth.

This is of course not created due to spinning of Earth,. It is already created and present in the space surrounding Earth, which can be packed or moved. 

Suppose if it is on Moon, weak gravity and thus your spaceship can only pack weak gravity.

The space station or space craft is already in inertial position.  There is strong curvature against the space station.  But it is not being warped. 

If we rotate the space station or space craft, curvature weakens, mass gains weight.  Since gravity is equal to acceleration.

Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 10/11/2019 18:02:56
“This, in a nutshell, then, is the General Theory of Relativity, and its central premise is that the curvature of space-time is directly determined by the distribution of matter and energy contained within it. What complicates things, however, is that the distribution of matter and energy is in turn governed by the curvature of space, leading to a feedback loop and a lot of very complex mathematics. Thus, the presence of mass/energy determines the geometry of space, and the geometry of space determines the motion of mass/energy”.

Well, here I need not reiterate that curvature of space time is directly determined by the distribution of matter and energy.   So, curvature of space time is directly determined by the mass/energy.  Since,  mass is equated with energy, I would like to take energy only.  It is true that there is strong curvature against Earth. 

Naturally, in other words there is strong energy base on this Earth which I termed it as Potential Energy which is aiding curvature of space time.   

Gravitation is not an attractive force between masses, but a pressure force exerted by spacetime on closed volumes that tends to bring them closer to each other.

Well, it is proved that all closed volumes such as elementary particles Proton(s), neutron(s) and electron(s) pushes their surroundings and produces convex curvature of spacetime.  In fact, this curvature once again depends on availability of energy in the space.  In a 2d space time no elementary particle can curve the space time around them.

When a uranium-235 atom absorbs a neutron and fissions into two new atoms, it releases three new neutrons and some binding energy.  All the elementary particles that ever is released due to nuclear fission start curving space time around them.  This is of course an instant process. 

Sun is also producing most of its energy through nuclear fusion only.  Suppose in a particular time, ‘T1’ total energy produced/present in the solar system is ‘X’.  On the very next minute of ‘T1’ energy produced by Sun is just additional only.  It only maintaining existing energy base in the solar system.  Each time no energy base is created.  “Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it only transforms from one form to other”.  This additional energy, pushes existing energy and start moving out.

 Suppose, let us presume that if Sun suddenly stops producing additional energy or disappears, what happens.  Additional energy only creates pressure/force against existing energy and energy is having an important quality of moving from high to low.  When there is no pressure/force light weakens instantly and it never takes 8 minutes.  This is like electricity, whatever the distance may, if we switch off, light goes instantly. 

However energy spread in the solar system never disappears instantly.  Flow of energy from high to low continues and it takes lot of period.  Meanwhile mass continues to curve the space time.  As the additional energy is stopped, flow/movement of energy is stopped and thus rotation and revolution.  Slowly planets gets into inertial position.  In the outer region, energy weakens further and thus curvature and mass gains weight and start moving out. 

There is energy base on this Earth which is aiding curvature.  When an atom is split, elementary particles freed there from, curves space time around them.  As chain reaction continues, more particles and energy is released into space. All the elementary particles curves the space time and thus radiation increases.

Energy produced or released due to nuclear fission on Earth is just additional only.  Similarly as is done in Sun’s atmosphere, this additional energy on Earth due to nuclear fusion, creates pressure on existing  energy.

Yours
Psreddy

Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 08/12/2019 16:46:08
If this is true, then:
"According to Einstein, your weight on earth is due to the fact that your body is traveling through warped spacetime”

Galileo Galilei wrote about the relative motion of objects familiar in his time:

"If you are in a closed room on a ship sailing at a constant speed and the ride is perfectly smooth, objects behave as they would on land. There’s no physical experiment you could conduct to tell whether you’re moving or stationary (assuming you’re not peeking out of a porthole). This is the core idea behind relativity, and is the same reason why we don’t feel our planet’s movement around the sun, or our solar system’s movement through the galaxy"
.
If our weight on Earth is due to the fact that our body is travelling through space time, then Galileo's "closed room" theory must be wrong.  In a closed room, you are not being exposed to space time directly.    But it is not happening so.

Here effects of acceleration and Gravity is different.

 
Yours
Psreddy
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 08/12/2019 17:43:37
In a closed room, you are not being exposed to space time directly. 

Surely you're not arguing that there is no space-time in a closed room...
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Halc on 08/12/2019 19:08:17
"According to Einstein, your weight on earth is due to the fact that your body is traveling through warped spacetime”
Einstein did not say that. Nothing travels through spacetime (which is more something Minkowski said). An object has a worldline through spacetime, and weight is an artifact of a worldline that does not follow a geodesic, resulting in a locally curved (accelerated) line.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: puppypower on 11/12/2019 11:33:27
If gravity is a force, that what sort of energy is released when gravitational potential decreases? The EM force, the weak and strong nuclear forces all give off photons when potential lowers. so what is the type of photon given off by lowering gravitational potential energy?

We can see a transfer of energy when gravity acts and lowers potential, such as kinetic energy and angular momentum. So what is the nature of these photons? If there are no photons, it is really a force? The angular momentum of a spiral galaxy could be explained a being driven by the exothermic output of its gravity lowering via star and black hole formation.

What we also observe is space-time contracts, as the gravitational potential lowers. As mass gets denser and denser,lowering the gravitational potential, space-time contracts, up to the limit of the black hole.

Does this means black holes are at lowest gravitational potential, or is the energy given off by gravity, increasing the potential of space-time around a black hole? The former implies an equivalent of space-time and gravity, while the latter implies opposite aspects of the same potential, like a gravitational version of plus and minus. This would then suggest dark energy is an exothermic output from gravity.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Kryptid on 11/12/2019 14:59:27
If gravity is a force, that what sort of energy is released when gravitational potential decreases?

It depends on the specifics. In some cases, that energy is released in the form of gravitational waves (like in merging black holes). In other cases, it would just be a transformation of gravitational potential energy into kinetic energy (such as when you drop a stone).

The EM force, the weak and strong nuclear forces all give off photons when potential lowers.

The photon is uniquely associated with the electromagnetic force. If an excited atomic nucleus releases a photon when it goes back into a relaxed state, that is because the constituent nucleons contain electric charges. The strong force is always associated with electric charge because all quarks are charged.

so what is the type of photon given off by lowering gravitational potential energy?

Photons don't come in different types (except for certain properties such as wavelength, but that's true of all particles anyway).

If there are no photons, it is really a force?

Yes. The presence or absence of photons has nothing to do with whether there is a force present or not.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 15/12/2019 08:07:03
"According to Einstein, your weight on earth is due to the fact that your body is traveling through warped spacetime”
Einstein did not say that. Nothing travels through spacetime (which is more something Minkowski said). An object has a worldline through spacetime, and weight is an artifact of a worldline that does not follow a geodesic, resulting in a locally curved (accelerated) line.
"Matter tells space how to curve, and curved space tells matter how to move".
Ok, let us think "what exactly is the medium" that is being curved by the mass and that tells mass to move.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 26/01/2020 13:22:44
WHAT EXACTLY IS GRAVITY:
Gravity, even today, a big puzzle.  Newton’s Inverse square law is very clear, for that it is being used in all important practical applications. He claimed that any two masses in the Universe, no matter where they were located or how far apart they were, would instantaneously attract one another via a mutual force known as gravity. The more massive each mass was, the greater the force, and farther away they were (squared), the lesser the force.
   
The concept of action-at-a-distance, intellectuals did not accept it, how objects located half-a-Universe away suddenly and instantly exert a force on one another?.  How could they interact from so far away without anything intervening to mediate it?.

At that time science was not so developed and the identification of existence of Gravity itself is far reaching.  Some of the doubts hanged in the mind of Newton also.

In the words of Newton:
“Gravity must be caused by an agent acting constantly according to certain laws; but whether this agent be material or immaterial, I have left to the consideration of my readers”.

Gravity is most accurately described by the general theory of relativity which describes gravity not as a force, but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass. 

As per Einstein Space is no longer flat as assumed by Newton, it can be pulled, pushed and warped by matter.  As per Einstein space is working like fabric.  Ok, but what exactly this fabric consists of and how this fabric came into existence.  As per Descartes Space is filled with matter.  Suppose if it is matter, space time cannot be pulled or pushed and mass cannot curve it.   

As per Einstein, curvature mainly depends on some of the parameters:
“Tμν is a mathematical object (a tensor to be precise) which describes material bodies. In that mathematical object, there are some parameters such as the density, the momentum, mass-energy... etc. So it is those parameters that determine 'how much space-time curvature' is around a body. And one of the parameters is of course energy. Therefore, energy do bend space-time”.

The Einstein Field Equation:
                                           Gμν = 8πTμν
On the left side of the equation is a tensor describing the geometry of spacetime — the gravitational field. On the right is the tensor describing the matter and energy density — the source of the gravitational field. The equation shows that spacetime geometry equals mass-energy density when adjusted with the proper units and numerical constants

So, space is filled with mass/energy.  Since mass is equated with energy, space is completely filled with energy.

If you want to calculate what the space time curvature at any point in space, General Relativity allows you to do it, but you need to know a few things. You need to know the locations, magnitudes, and distributions of all the masses in the Universe, just as Newton demanded. But you also need information about:
•   how those masses are moving and how they have moved over time,
•   how all other (non-mass) forms of energy are distributed,
•   how the object you’re observing/measuring from is moving in a changing gravitational field,
•   and how the spatial curvature is changing over time.
Only with those additional pieces of information can you compute how space is curved for you at a particular location in space and time.


Ok, let us see trampoline analogy. 
“Consider a very large trampoline with nothing on the trampoline pad and trampoline pad remains flat and parallel to the ground. Now place a heavy bowling ball at the center of the trampoline pad. The center of the pad will sag downward. If we assume the analogy that the trampoline pad represents space-time, and the bowling ball a gravitating object, then the sagging of the trampoline represents the curvature of space time under the influence of gravity”.

Here we are all concentrating on bowling ball, and the sagging of trampoline pad. Ok, it is one of the best examples that tells how matter curves space time.  But we are forgetting, what exactly this trampoline is and the thing by which it is made up of.  I am sure that space time fabric is not from nothing.  Suppose if it so, then matter cannot curve the space.  There is something, which is acting as space fabric.   It is of course, matter blind. 
In parameters set by Einstein, to measure how much curvature around a body, he is very much clear, it is the density, momentum of mass/energy that precisely decides curvature. 
Suppose if we place a satellite in the space.  There is huge potential energy and it moves towards the satellite and curves the space time around it.  This curvature once again depends on density of mass/energy within that area.

What is the source for this space fabric
Let us see our solar system, Sun is important source of energy and it is pumping huge energy.  This energy is spread up to our solar system only.  In between two solar systems, there is no any source of energy and thus it is empty.   

In our solar system space is completely filled with huge potential energy. A photon released from Sun never travels directly.  Space is not empty.  A photon freed, pushes existing photons, a chain action.  It follows first in, first out method.  There is a flow/transfer of energy and it continues.  In case, for any reason, if the Sun stops pumping energy, the photon released fails to push the chain and thus it weakens instantly. 


General relativity:
Einstein’s imagination gave birth to general relativity’s core idea as he gazed out his office window while he was supposed to be evaluating patents. “All of a sudden I was struck by a thought,” Einstein later said. “If a person falls freely, he will certainly not feel his own weight.”

This is great idea.  When the person is at the top of the building, there is Gravity.  When he comes down to the Earth there is Gravity.  In the middle, while falling freely, there is no Gravity at all.  There is something in the space which is causing Gravity, fails, while falling freely.

It is true that there is strong curvature against Earth.  This curvature once again depends on the distribution of mass/energy within that area.  So, in other words there is strong potential energy. 

As long as the person is in inertial position there is strong gravity.  Potential energy, gripped him by curving the space time around him.   When he accelerates downwards, slowly curvature weakens. In other words gravity weakens. 

01 It is true that Earth is spinning with lot of speed, still curvature is intact.
02 When Gravity is equated to acceleration, why it is not working in case of Earth.
03 For that almost all the planets are having Gravity and they are accelerating/spinning against their own axis.  Why Gravity is not equal to acceleration here.
04 If we place a satellite in the space, it curves the space around it.
05 It will not rotate against its axis, instead it will start rotating against gravity of Earth.
If the satellite start rotating against its axis, it will turn out as a full pledge planet.  But it must  have certain amount of shield/protection, otherwise, due to acceleration curvature weakens and it will start moving out.  Almost all the planets are having similar protection, otherwise curvature will be eroded.


EQUIVALENCE PRINCIPLE:
“In 1632, even before Newton published his now-famous work, Galileo Galilei wrote about the relative motion of objects familiar in his time: ships. If you are in a closed room on a ship sailing at a constant speed and the ride is perfectly smooth, objects behave as they would on land. There’s no physical experiment you could conduct to tell whether you’re moving or stationary (assuming you’re not peeking out of a porthole). is there any physical experiment you could do within the confines of your spaceship to tell whether you really were accelerating through space (assuming there were no windows to look out from), or if, instead, you were inside a spaceship stationary on the surface of Earth? Einstein said no—just as Galileo imagined the in distinguishability between a person inside a smooth-sailing ship (confined without windows) and a person on land, Einstein realised that the effects of acceleration and gravity were indistinguishable too”.

It is great observation, indeed, by Galileo. 
01  If you are in a closed room, sailing in a ship, one cannot tell, you are moving or stationary on land. 
02  If the space ship is accelerating through space, for the space ship, Gravity is equal to acceleration.
03 For the people within cabin, they may not be in a position to tell, whether they are accelerating through space or in inertial position on ground..
04  If Gravity is due to curvature alone, one’s the cabin is closed, Gravity must come down dramatically.  But it is not happening so.
05  So, Curvature/Gravity can be packed and moved.  There is Gravity within this atmosphere.
06   So, hereby we can conclude that Curvature which is nothing but Energy, is already present with lot of pressure, can be packed or moved.
08 If we create vacuum, space cabin, curvature is not lost.  By creating vacuum, we are removing air and particles there in.  But we cannot remove energy.  So energy still curves the space time. 
09 Suppose, if the space ship is in space, if we close the cabin of the space ship, as there is no Gravity, it packs the same. 

This is the reason, there is in distinguishability between a person inside a smooth sailing ship and one in inertial position on Earth.  The cabin of space ship is locked in a gravity field and the cabin is filled with potential energy, nothing but gravity.  For the space ship gravity is equal to acceleration.

But for the people inside the cabin, gravity is not equal to acceleration, but it is equal to windows

HOW GRAVITY WORKS:
 When the apple fell on the ground, Newton thought Earth is pulling things towards it.  As per Newton every mass in the universe attract every other mass and named this attraction as “Gravity”. 

By the dawn of 20th century, science developed a lot.  For Einstein, patent office thought, “free fall”, a game changer.   If a person dives from highest place, temporarily he will transform away from Gravity.  This is one of the important effects of gravity.  Einstein equated acceleration to Gravity. 

As per General theory of relativity, gravity is not a force, but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass/energy.  To decide, curvature at a place, there are some parameters such as the density, the momentum, mass-energy... etc.   So, it is those parameters that determine 'how much space-time curvature' is around a body.  And one of the parameters is of course energy. Therefore, energy do bend space-time. 

So, as per General relativity energy at a place decides curvature. Finally, it is the energy working as medium or agent. 
So, here there is strong potential energy stored on this Earth.   We are sending rockets to space.  Space time around them is also curved, but there is no Gravity.

Suppose if we say that there is huge potential energy stored on this Earth, there must be a source.  Sun is the important source, however there are limitations and it comes in day time only.  It is true that energy moves from high to low and thus unless there is protection, total energy moves away during night time.  But there is protection, which is not allowing energy entering our atmosphere to escape that much easily. 

Due to curvature, radiation is raising and water particles are raising against gravity.  Water particles are divided further and further and becomes so light that they move against gravity.  If the curvature increases, water particles are pushed to farther height.  These particles joins other particles, becomes heavier and start accelerating towards earth, creating pressure on energy.   

Gravity on any planet mainly depends on potential energy stored therein.  It is true that all the masses curves the space time around them.  However Gravity mainly depends on the strength of frame and potential energy stored there in. 

As long as the apple is in the tree, potential energy developed a strong curvature.  It is true that Gravity is matter blind.  There is strong curvature against Earth.  Both apple and Earth have their own curvatures.  Unless there is pressure/force both will remain in their places.  Space is exerting pressure/force against both of them.  However curvature of Earth and apple tug on each other and exerts opposite force.  Earth is a huge mass when compared to apple, there is flow of energy towards Earth, a part of which bents towards curvature of apple, creates pressure and pushes it towards Earth.

EFFECTS OF GRAVITY:
Extra-ordinary brain of Einstein wonderfully predicted some of the important effects of Gravity such as light bending, time dilation etc.

The Einstein Field Equation:
                                           Gμν = 8πTμν
On the left side of the equation is a tensor describing the geometry of space time — the gravitational field. On the right is the tensor describing the matter and energy density — the source of the gravitational field.
By this, we can conclude that there is huge potential energy stored on this Earth.  This potential energy had its influence on things done by us, research etc.

For that it is true that there is huge potential energy in our solar system also. But it is not created within short time.  Whatever energy being pumped by Sun, at present is just additional only.  Additional energy simply charges the existing energy and thus light. 

Even the curved space time is nothing but potential energy only.  There is huge potential energy on this Earth.  Sun energy entering our Earth’s space, is simply additional only and it charges existing energy and thus light.  On Moon, curved space time or Gravity is weak and in other words potential energy.  Additional energy is of the same, but potential energy is weak. 

Since energy density is high on Earth additional energy creates wonders.  In case, let us assume that there is no potential energy on Earth, if an atom bomb is exploded, additional energy generated thereby, moves out unabated, no lighting, waves.  Though additional energy, through atomic explosion is small, potential energy in the space time plays key role.

Even in the case of electric bulb, torch light, we are of the opinion that total energy is coming from the source.  But it is untrue.  Even before, switching on electric bulb, there is strong curvature against the space time of the bulb.  Small amount of energy, additional, released there from pushes the existing energy, in other words, charges it and thus light.  It is untrue to say that total energy is coming from source.

1) SOURCES OF ADDITIONAL ENERGY ON EARTH:
A) SUN:
Sun is one of the important sources of additional energy to Earth.  Sun energy is simply, not complete, and it is only additional only.  There is strong curvature against Earth’s space time, in other words energy density.  Sun energy entering our Earth’s space time, pushes existing energy, in other words charges it, resulting in light.

B) ATOMIC EXPLOSION:
Whatever appearing is deceptive.    Energy released due to atomic explosion is additional energy only.   As long as the atomic bomb is in original position, keeping so much energy how it is stable.   Total energy is coming out only after explosion.  If the space is empty, additional energy cannot do wonders.  Space time of the each and every atom is curved, in other words strong energy density.  When an atom is split and energy is released, it only pushes existing Potential energy.  Here speed of light, C2 has no role.  Yield of energy mainly depends on:
1)  Density of energy in the space time.
2)  Additional energy released there from.

B)  LIGHT:
If we switch on a torchlight, do total energy coming from the torch light.   What about the huge potential energy present in the space.   Energy coming or released from torch light is very, very small.  It pushes and charges existing energy, which is known as light.  Suppose if the space time is empty, additional energy moves out, no chance of charging and thus light.

Even in the case of electric bulb also, it is one of the important sources of additional energy.  Total energy is not coming from the bulb.  Here, the basic difference is, we are drawing electrons from the space time at one place and releasing them at another place, though balance is nil, it is also additional energy only.
C)   FIRE:
Fire is no more mysterious one.  It is also one of the important sources of additional energy.
 
WORKING OF SOLAR SYSTEM:
At present we are of the opinion that Gravity is keeping planets in order.  We have already discussed that space fabric is nothing but potential energy stored in the Solar System. 

How this potential energy is created and stored in the solar system.  Without this energy, space fabric is immaterial.  It is true that “Energy is neither created nor destroyed” it can only be modified into one form to other.  Each second energy generated by Sun is just additional only.  In fact Sun has no capacity to create this space fabric. 
The atmosphere of the Sun consists of 3 layers the photosphere, the chromosphere and the corona. Energy produced from Sun is transferred from the core through the successive layers.  I propose that these layers extend up to the end of Solar system and energy transfers from one layer to the other and each subsequent layer is weakest when compared to previous one.

Planets exist within these layers and no planet crosses or moves to other layer. 

Suppose if we place a satellite in the space.  Energy curves the space time around it and throws it into inertial position.  Energy within these layers are moving and it pushes it.   There is a flow of energy towards Earth and it drags the satellite towards Earth.  However energy flowing in the layer pushes it and it start going round the Earth continuously.   


Yours
Psreddy
.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: puppypower on 28/01/2020 13:58:49
Friends,

It is true that science developed a lot.  We know several things and we are able to carry out research in space and we are sending rockets to other planets. 

I think there is every need to revise the present existing theories.  I don't think it is so good, going by ants perception,  trampoline  analogy.  Ok, they may be correct, let us discuss to have "What exactly is gravity".

Yours
Psreddy

Gravity appears to be governed by two sets of principles, at the same time; Einstein and Newtonian. In terms of Einstein and General Relativity, as mass accumulates, space-time curves and contracts. Time slows and distances contract in space-time. The black hole, for example, has distance contracted to a point and time has essentially stopped.

In terms of Newtonian, gravity induces weight and pressure. As the weight and pressures increase distances between materials get smaller, in parallel to GR. However, the time variable in the Newtonian aspect speeds up instead of slows. This is evident in matter vibrations and transitional states and the frequency of energy output. In the sun, for example, the core pressure causes nuclear fusion and transitions, with the release of high frequency energy.  This result is the time element in the Newtonian and Einstein each go in opposite directions.

There are two distinct time aspects with respect to gravity.  This makes sense since gravity is a force, while acceleration due to the gravitational force, has the units of d/t/t or one part distance and two parts time.

In terms of an application, a black hole will have space-time contracted to near a point-instant. This is the Einstein leg. The Newtonian leg is connected to the compressed matter and energy transitions close to zero time or extreme frequency  In other words, the black hole should be internally generating exotic particle states similar to early universe. This is unexplored by science, since they do not seem to understand that gravity displays two opposite time vectors.
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: Origin on 28/01/2020 22:05:46
However, the time variable in the Newtonian aspect speeds up instead of slows. This is evident in matter vibrations and transitional states and the frequency of energy output. In the sun, for example, the core pressure causes nuclear fusion and transitions, with the release of high frequency energy.  This result is the time element in the Newtonian and Einstein each go in opposite directions.
Are seriously proposing that a hot and dense object will experience time more rapidly than a cool less dense object?
Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 02/02/2020 17:38:26
Ok, let us keep aside time dilation and distance contraction, since these are all effects of Gravity.

As per Newton Gravity creates or causes weight and pressure and you have given best example of Sun.  Here core is responsible in creating pressure/force and thus nuclear fusion, release of huge energy. 

As per Einstein as mass accumulates, it curves the space time around it. 

A Black hole exhibits strong Gravity field whether this is due to compression of matter and energy or due to the curvature of space.  In all these cases, it is possible due to gravity field only.   There is strong Gravity field in the Sun’s core and also space time of the black hole

If a sheet of paper is bent, on one side it appears that it is due to pressure and on the other side appears as attraction. 
.   
So, here, we are all discussing Gravity’s impact, a force or a curvature.  How this curvature is created.  Without curvature, there is no gravity at all.  And in turn, without gravity there is no pressure or force.  So, these are all inter related to one another.  Matter curves the space time around it. And this curvature is the base for creation of gravity. Gravity in turn creates pressure/force on matter.

What Exactly is curvature:
During the time of Einstein, science developed a lot and thus predictions of Einstein are far superior.  Particle physics started playing key role.  Matter disturbing or curving the space around them drawn the attention of scientists.

“Gravity is most accurately described by the general theory of relativity which describes gravity not as a force, but as a consequence of the curvature of space time caused by the uneven distribution of mass”. 

Now we are sending satellites into space, they are curving the space time around them, but there is no Gravity.

I think time has come to rethink what exactly this curvature is. 
                                           Gμν = 8πTμν
On the left side of the equation is a tensor describing the geometry of spacetime — the gravitational field. On the right is the tensor describing the matter and energy density — the source of the gravitational field. The equation shows that spacetime geometry equals mass-energy density when adjusted with the proper units and numerical constants.

This is the same energy density, causing or curving space time around Earth.  To decide, curvature at a place, there are some parameters such as the density, the momentum, mass-energy... etc.   So, it is those parameters that determine 'how much space-time curvature' is around a body.  And one of the parameters is of course energy.


There is strong energy density in and around black holes.  Since gravity is matter blind, in turn it creates pressure/force against matter. 

Basic thing is, we are forgetting, how this energy density is created.  In a 2d space time no matter can curve the space time and thus it is flat.  So, even before, mass enters, there must be strong energy base.  When a huge mass is placed in space, since energy is of object oriented, it moves and  curves the space time around mass.

But we cannot take this as Gravity, since energy concentration in space is low.  Unless it is boosted, it simply fails to create pressure/force on objects.  It is true that Earth, apple, every object curves the space time around them.  Since Earth is a huge object, there is continuous flow of Energy.  A part of this, in and around apple bend towards apple and creates pressure and thus it comes down to Earth.

If the curvature alone is responsible for Gravity, our satellites must create Gravity and spin against their axis. 

Yours
Psreddy

Title: Re: What exactly is gravity
Post by: pasala on 05/02/2020 14:39:47
Friends,

It is true that science developed a lot.  We know several things and we are able to carry out research in space and we are sending rockets to other planets. 

I think there is every need to revise the present existing theories.  I don't think it is so good, going by ants perception,  trampoline  analogy.  Ok, they may be correct, let us discuss to have "What exactly is gravity".

Yours
Psreddy

Gravity appears to be governed by two sets of principles, at the same time; Einstein and Newtonian. In terms of Einstein and General Relativity, as mass accumulates, space-time curves and contracts. Time slows and distances contract in space-time. The black hole, for example, has distance contracted to a point and time has essentially stopped.

In terms of Newtonian, gravity induces weight and pressure. As the weight and pressures increase distances between materials get smaller, in parallel to GR. However, the time variable in the Newtonian aspect speeds up instead of slows. This is evident in matter vibrations and transitional states and the frequency of energy output. In the sun, for example, the core pressure causes nuclear fusion and transitions, with the release of high frequency energy.  This result is the time element in the Newtonian and Einstein each go in opposite directions.

There are two distinct time aspects with respect to gravity.  This makes sense since gravity is a force, while acceleration due to the gravitational force, has the units of d/t/t or one part distance and two parts time.

In terms of an application, a black hole will have space-time contracted to near a point-instant. This is the Einstein leg. The Newtonian leg is connected to the compressed matter and energy transitions close to zero time or extreme frequency  In other words, the black hole should be internally generating exotic particle states similar to early universe. This is unexplored by science, since they do not seem to understand that gravity displays two opposite time vectors.

Actually, i had attempted to reconcile both the theories, but failed. 

It is surprise to see, why these theories ends at black holes. We are all living in a strong gravity field, but no theory in exact terms defines or tells you, this is what exactly is gravity.  We knew, Einstein theories are far advanced and are proved to a great extent, still for all practical applications we are using Newton theories. 

A curved space time is within our reach, living there, each and every second in its influence, but a black hole, an imaginary one.    But, event horizon or whether light escapes is a big topic, for that expansion or contraction of universe also goes long way.  It is not criticising.  Our technology is far limited and it is impossible for our rockets to reach black hole.  We don't know, how black holes came into existence,   or they generating exotic materials. 

EINSTEIN GEOMETRY:
                                                 Gμν = 8πTμν
On the left side of the equation is a tensor describing the geometry of spacetime — the gravitational field. On the right is the tensor describing the matter and energy density — the source of the gravitational field. The equation shows that spacetime geometry equals mass-energy density when adjusted with the proper units and numerical constants.

It tells us that Gravitational field is nothing but matter and energy density.  However we don't accept that there is huge potential energy stored on our Earth.  In other words, when we say that there is no stored energy on this Earth, Einstein curvature is also wrong.

Yours
Psreddy