Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: Yahya A.Sharif on 13/07/2019 13:44:12

Title: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 13/07/2019 13:44:12
Time is infinite,i.e time continues in the future infinitely , after we die we will spend, million years,
billion years, going forward infinitely, there is not an end for time , or a point when time stops from
elapsing.
According to probability if we tried something infinitely, like tossing a die infinitely we will obtain
all numbers at some time , 1,2,3,4,5, and 6, and that is for sure.
Let consider time , the time spend after death is infinite , so the probability of a human being to
come to life again is 100% , in fact any event in space has a probability to happen of 100%, the only
event in space and vacuum could happen is a big bang in addition to what happened after the big
bang” I believe matter came from nowhere before the big bang, and that is obvious matter can’t
exist in the past infinitely, we can’t say mass existence spent infinite time in the past, infinity is not
a real number”
Some one might say, not everything could happen, for instance if we toss a die infinite times a 7
won’t appear at all , its probability is 0! But let”s consider coming to life again:
As matter came from nowhere before the big bang, the possibility of multiple big bangs at infinite
time is 100%, and the possibility of a repetition of our universe with its same scenario “ all of its
history and all the same humans with same DNA who lived on earth” is also 100% , There might be
infinite choices for our universe when it repeats and these choices will occur with a possibility of
100%.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 13/07/2019 15:41:53
What makes multiple universes not to exist whether in the past or in the future? Nothing, the universe was first” before the big bang” a point with very high energy, if this point came from nothingness, other points”during time” will occur as well, we have the place where the point appeared”which is space” and we have enough time for this event to occur “ infinite time”, there is not a hinder for other points to occur , if space produced our universe from nothing then it has the capability to produce more points.

The existence of the point from nothingness has some physical laws, the laws are the answer to the question: what makes the point appear? While we have the same space “ identical space, the same every where “ , and matter came from nothing that is  there is not a limit for its production “ something like energy from perpetual motion machines , unlimited energy coming from nothing “ then this law will apply to other points in space.

Indeed if the next big bang happened after say million years, it has little probability for that new universe to be identical to our universe, but what about infinite points and infinite universes? It will indeed result in our universe and its people will be the same people of this world.

Is it possible I will find myself with my existence and identity in another universe some day? Meaning I feel again life but not remembering anything of my previous life? This is certain as well, the identity of a human being is just a complex composition of cells, DNA , mind, etc, it possible to make  Einstein with his identity and his feelings if we composed  everything he possess as an entity , complete composition, and that what the bang does ,it creates body and soul "if it exists" and everything to form a human being as well as all matter and energy with their physical laws, In some universe in the past or the future  Einstein might be born not complete perhaps with medium intelligence, if the number of tries are  infinite the exact Einstein will occur with 100% probability, It means a person will come to life again

Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Kryptid on 13/07/2019 22:08:43
The Big Bang may have been a one-time event. For all we know, the probability of a second Big Bang really is 0%. That being said, we seem to be on track for an eternal expansion and therefore a heat death for the Universe. Eventually, every particle will be outside the particle horizon of every other particle. That would prevent any further interactions and therefore eliminate the possibility for the formation of complex structures. That's not to say we know for sure that such is the fate of the Universe, but it's far from a certain thing that everything we know is going to repeat either.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 04:53:59
The Big Bang may have been a one-time event. For all we know, the probability of a second Big Bang really is 0%.
I presented an explanation that there should be multiple bangs and its probability is 100% at infinite time, but you didn't present an explanation how you determine it is a one-time event and its probability is 0%
That would prevent any further interactions and therefore eliminate the possibility for the formation of complex structures
But we have our big bang " which resulted in our universe" and it formed complex structure , what I am saying another big bang will do the same thing.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Kryptid on 14/07/2019 06:31:54
I presented an explanation that there should be multiple bangs and its probability is 100% at infinite time, but you didn't present an explanation how you determine it is a one-time event and its probability is 0%

Your explanation is speculation. You don't know that a second Big Bang is even possible. It might be, but you don't know that.

But we have our big bang " which resulted in our universe" and it formed complex structure , what I am saying another big bang will do the same thing.

You don't know that.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 10:24:59
Your explanation is speculation. You don't know that a second Big Bang is even possible. It might be, but you don't know that.
I presented mathematics, physics and biology with logical arguments, We know how physics works and according to how physics , mathematics and biology work my argument is logical.If not could you explain?You can falsify my argument if you point out a point which is wrong, if all points are right then my argument is right.

Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/07/2019 10:43:14
I presented mathematics, physics and biology with logical arguments,
Yes, but you based them on this
I am saying another big bang will do the same thing.
and there is no way to know if that will happen or not.
You are just guessing.

The Universe may be a one-off.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 11:19:56
and there is no way to know if that will happen or not.
You are just guessing.
Then there is a possibility for other big bangs in the future, and hope for humans to come to life again after they die, this idea still worthwhile
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/07/2019 11:25:06
this idea still worthwhile
Why?
What use can I make of it?
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 11:30:01
What use can I make of it?
Hope for another life.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/07/2019 13:44:46
What use can I make of it?
Hope for another life.
But it won't be "my" life.
It will be a life that I'm never even aware of.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 13:57:39
What use can I make of it?
Hope for another life.
But it won't be "my" life.
It will be a life that I'm never even aware of.
It is all about feeling "pleasure and life" , new creation of yourself means you feel things again , you won't remember your previous life but you feel things, its just like losing memory but you still alive and feels .Feelings are related to the mind and body  if the mind and body are the same then your identity is the same and the existence of two persons" one died and the other one is alive "  in different universes is the same .
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/07/2019 14:00:32
new creation of yourself means you feel things again
No.
It may mean that someone else does, but it won't be me.
I will be dead.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 14:07:18
new creation of yourself means you feel things again
No.
It may mean that someone else does, but it won't be me.
I will be dead.
Let say you are dead and we put again every part that you lost by death, everything possible, and we give you sensation that will be you.
Indeed there is biological part inside you that makes you feel independently from other creatures this independent part can be placed again on you to form your identity again
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/07/2019 14:25:11
Your contention is that big bangs are repeatable- there is an infinite sequence of them of them.
If that's true then it's vanishingly unlikely that ours is the first.

So, if that's true, you are already a repeat of someone just like you.
Do you remember them?



You will never know the previous ones nor the future ones.
They will never interact with you.
It will make literally no difference to your life.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 14:36:52
Your contention is that big bangs are repeatable- there is an infinite sequence of them of them.
If that's true then it's vanishingly unlikely that ours is the first.

So, if that's true, you are already a repeat of someone just like you.
Do you remember them?



You will never know the previous ones nor the future ones.
They will never interact with you.
It will make literally no difference to your life.
That's right.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/07/2019 14:51:13
And because it does not make your life different, it can not possibly make it better.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 15:03:09
And because it does not make your life different, it can not possibly make it better.
As our existence doesn't depend on a full composition of our body, that is if " God forbidden" you lost your leg you still you there are a  lot of of possibilities in your body like coming fat or slim as well as a lot of possibilities of your life because you may then have different decisions and you might meet different circumstances.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Kryptid on 14/07/2019 15:12:36
I presented mathematics, physics and biology with logical arguments,

You never demonstrated what the probability of a second Big Bang happening is. You never showed whether or not it is 0%. Without knowing that, your conclusions are uncertain.

Quote
We know how physics works and according to how physics , mathematics and biology work my argument is logical.

Where does physics say whether the probability of a second Big Bang happening are 0% or not?

Quote
If not could you explain?

I already have.

Quote
You can falsify my argument if you point out a point which is wrong, if all points are right then my argument is right.

It isn't that it is necessarily wrong, it's that you are making unjustified assumptions. You don't know that a second Big Bang is even possible, so you can't conclude with certainty that there will be others in the future.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: flummoxed on 14/07/2019 15:17:20
The Big Bang may have been a one-time event. For all we know, the probability of a second Big Bang really is 0%.

True, but Roger Penrose has an idea, not standard model that the universe might undergo multiple big bangs, via cosmic cyclic cosmology, we may exist in a Aeon . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology

I dont think reincarnation is allowed in this model :(
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 14/07/2019 16:10:34
And because it does not make your life different, it can not possibly make it better.
As our existence doesn't depend on a full composition of our body, that is if " God forbidden" you lost your leg you still you there are a  lot of of possibilities in your body like coming fat or slim as well as a lot of possibilities of your life because you may then have different decisions and you might meet different circumstances.
And, because I still can't even be aware of all the possible other versions of me, it still make no difference.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 17:44:35
I think life in general is good, we have water, oxygen and food, there is not a need that can't be fulfilled, so death shouldn't be a problem and cause us an illness " religion is an illness and not natural", death and life are cyclic just  like pain and joy..
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 14/07/2019 17:53:01
And, because I still can't even be aware of all the possible other versions of me, it still make no difference.
You are right
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 15/07/2019 10:57:20
What if I have a copy of me " me and another person which are exactly the same and both are alive?
since the other person's nerves are not connected to my mind I won't feel his feelings and vice versa, but if one died me or him the feelings will be unified that is they become one person which is me and him.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 15/07/2019 10:59:46
the feelings will be unified
How?
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 15/07/2019 12:07:13
the feelings will be unified
How?
I feel my leg and my arm, but they are different feelings in different places, if I cut off my leg I will still feel my arm I still have sensation , If I feel there in the other person and I feel in me " but the feelings are separated" then if one feeling in the person stops" he died" the other feeling "in me " will continue., if both persons are the same then the sensation will be unified in one of us.
He will die and immediately start to feel in me without remembering his death etc
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Kryptid on 15/07/2019 13:24:33
He will die and immediately start to feel in me without remembering his death etc

...what?
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 16/07/2019 05:40:35
He will die and immediately start to feel in me without remembering his death etc

...what?
In other words, the other person will die and appear again as me since we have the same body components.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/07/2019 10:29:07
In other words, the other person will die and appear again as me since we have the same body components.
Did this happen to you?
Why not?- if, as you suggest, there have been an infinite number of big bangs before ours.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 16/07/2019 16:02:05
In other words, the other person will die and appear again as me since we have the same body components.
Did this happen to you?
Why not?
Interesting.We can't remember it but we might feel it.All civilizations, beliefs and religions have the idea of a soul"which represent eternal life" , people believed in after life being eternal since ancient times.We feel that we will live again and interpret that in form of religions.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/07/2019 18:19:35
we might feel it
Did you?
people believed in after life being eternal since ancient times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 16/07/2019 18:47:44
we might feel it
Did you?
No.I may made a mistake we won't feel it nor remember it , we are a new creation , the sensation will cease from the dead one and appear in his copy, the first person stored information which vanished the time he died.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/07/2019 13:16:35
the sensation will cease from the dead one and appear in his copy,
And once again...
Have you experienced this?
If not, why not?
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 17/07/2019 13:54:23
the sensation will cease from the dead one and appear in his copy,
Have you experienced this?
Of course I did.Infinite times.An I will exist infinite times in the future.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/07/2019 14:09:14
No.
I mean has the current, local version of you actually experienced it- can you say what it's like?
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 17/07/2019 14:17:47
No.
I mean has the current, local version of you actually experienced it- can you say what it's like?
No, it was another version of me.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/07/2019 14:20:09
Why doesn't the current version of you "remember"?
If you are right about lots of big bangs we all ought to have "memories" of doppelgangers.
Unless, of course your imaginary mechanism for remembering things that didn't happen, doesn't work.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 17/07/2019 14:36:13
Why doesn't the current version of you "remember"?
We remember things via information inside our minds if there are not information we cant remember, a person will be created again without previous information however with same code of his body parts that makes him him,it is something like making exact new copy of computer without the information on the other computer .but the first computer works exactly like the other computer.

Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/07/2019 16:55:56
Then this
the sensation will cease from the dead one and appear in his copy,
can't be right.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 17/07/2019 19:03:20
Then this
the sensation will cease from the dead one and appear in his copy,
can't be right.
What if I lost my memory completely does that mean I lose sensation of my own self?does that mean as a living being I change to another person , or my feelings continue and I'm the same entity?
There is a difference between my material parts of brain which gives sensation such as cells, and what stored inside it, right?
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 18/07/2019 15:33:44
Then this
the sensation will cease from the dead one and appear in his copy,
can't be right.
Even though that will be me , it seems that while I died and appeared in the future I won't be aware of that process, i.e  I won't be aware that I lived some day and now its my return , not because I won't aware of  this theory, but because there will not be a feeling nor remembering of my previous life .
What I mean life doesn't continue forever,  it is discrete periods of living and dying, each period starts and ends, in a way that I won't feel nor remember its continuity but I still exist and feel life itself forever.
It is just the continuity of enjoying things eternally  without feeling eternity.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 18/07/2019 17:38:21
The Big Bang may have been a one-time event. For all we know, the probability of a second Big Bang really is 0%.

In addition to what flummoxed mentioned , have a look at this article, contains new theories suggesting multiple big bangs before and after our universe, and suggesting time is infinite in the past and in the future:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2006/may/05/spaceexploration.universe
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Kryptid on 18/07/2019 21:24:14
In addition to what flummoxed mentioned , have a look at this article, contains new theories suggesting multiple big bangs before and after our universe, and suggesting time is infinite in the past and in the future:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2006/may/05/spaceexploration.universe

I know about cyclical universe models and all of that, but they are no more than speculation at the moment. We don't have any evidence for multiple Big Bangs. So you cannot know that any more ever have, or ever will, happen again.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 19/07/2019 09:58:19
We don't have any evidence for multiple Big Bangs.
we don't, It is more logical that there has been multiple big bangs than only one
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Bored chemist on 19/07/2019 12:18:44
It is more logical that there has been multiple big bangs than only one
Why?
You can not possibly have any evidence for that assertion.
Your experience of universes is base on a sample size of 1.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Yahya A.Sharif on 19/07/2019 14:05:39
It is more logical that there has been multiple big bangs than only one
Why?
You can not possibly have any evidence for that assertion.
Your experience of universes is base on a sample size of 1.
Ok.
Title: Re: The possibility of coming to life again after death
Post by: Halc on 19/07/2019 15:42:09
What I mean life doesn't continue forever,  it is discrete periods of living and dying, each period starts and ends, in a way that I won't feel nor remember its continuity but I still exist and feel life itself forever.
It is just the continuity of enjoying things eternally  without feeling eternity.
You should just adopt a more mainstream philosophy that meets these goals.  Try eternalism, which lets you do just that: continuity of enjoying things eternally, but without all the funny need to posit an implausible immaterial experiencer or the need to posit a cyclic universe that somehow produces the same identical configuration of matter each time.