Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/11/2019 16:52:44

Title: The mechanism of the formation of waves of killers
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/11/2019 16:52:44
A huge number of tidal waves move in the seas and oceans.
When tidal waves collide with the coastline of the continents, tides are formed.
When two tidal waves collide in the open ocean, a killer wave forms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
The magnitude of the killer waves can be calculated using the following formula: H = T1 • T2.
Where T is the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.
Experiment to the topic: The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves
As we see, killer waves are formed only in those seas where tidal waves are formed and the higher the amplitude of the tides, the higher the killer waves.
In seas where tides do not form, killer waves do not occur.
List of seas where tides and killer waves are formed, more than 50 cm high:
Irish Sea, North Sea, Barents Sea, Baffin Sea, White Sea, West Mediterranean, Bering Sea, Sea of ​​Okhotsk, Arabian Sea, Sargas Sea, Hudson Bay, Maine Bay, Alaska Bay, etc.
List of seas where tides and killer waves are formed, less than 50 cm high:
Baltic Sea, Greenland Sea, Black Sea, Sea of ​​Azov, Chukchi Sea, Kara Sea, Laptev Sea, Red Sea, Sea of ​​Marmara, Caribbean Sea, Sea of ​​Japan, Gulf of Mexico, etc.
In the season of abnormally high tides, abnormally high killer waves form.
The highest tides and killer waves are formed in the North Atlantic, in the Pacific Ocean in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, etc.

You can conduct a simple experiment if two stones are simultaneously thrown into a bath of water. (the distance between the stones is 10 - 15 cm).
When a tidal wave collides, the emerging killer wave foams and a larger wave pulls through a smaller wave somewhat.
You can create a killer wave with a height of 0.3 meters and a duration of 0.5 seconds, if two divers at the same time jump "bomb" into the pond from a height of 2 meters. (distance between jumping 3 meters).
If, in a cup with water, hit simultaneously with two tablespoons and a "killer wave" is formed there.
The mechanism of formation of the tidal hump in the river, and killer waves in the oceans is similar and the height of the tidal hump in the river depends on the kinetic energy of the current in the river, and the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.
https://images.app.goo.gl/fNxSM5ZBGN5evNQi9

Tidal waves move in the open ocean in different directions, at speeds up to 100 km / h, they are also called solitons or Rossby waves.
Barely visible tidal waves colliding with storm waves create a killer wave and are the main cause of the wreck of ships.
https://goo.gl/images/icF4zf
The map shows the areas of the most frequent occurrence of killer waves.
In the North Atlantic, killer waves form mainly around the perimeter of the North Atlantic planetary cycle as a result of the collision of tidal waves with storm waves (three sisters).
Suloy is a throw of water on the surface of the sea.
https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B9

The hypothesis that the superposition of wind waves can be the cause of the formation of rogue waves does not stand up to criticism, since rogue waves are also formed during a calm period. (Wind waves do not form a tidal wave).
The statement that methane floating from the bottom of the ocean sharply reduces the density of water and the vessel loses buoyancy is also not true, since a decrease in the density of water cannot cause mechanical damage to ships and oil platforms.
The crews of the ships always record the impact of a huge wave, but no one has yet been able to record the methane emission.

In the North Sea, off the coast of Norway, on the Dropner oil platform on January 1, 1995, during a 12-meter storm wave, a killer wave of 25.6 meters was formed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draupner_wave
I believe the reason for this natural phenomenon is a tidal current that moves along the coast of Norway from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave from itself, both towards the coast and towards the open sea.
Also, north of the Dropner oil platform through the Pentland Firth Strait, a current moves at a speed of 16 knots from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave north and south.
https://www.equinor.com/en/what-we-do/partner-operated-fields-in-norway/draupner.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea
In the North Sea, only storm and tidal waves move.
And only, the interaction of tidal and storm waves can be the cause of the formation of killer waves.

Continuation: "The mechanism of thermoregulation of the Earth."
Forum Akademgorodok Novosibirsk. The science. https://forum.academ.club/index.php?showtopic=1235578
Forum of Nizhny Novgorod State University named after N.I. Lobachevsky.
http://forum.unn.ru/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=10331&sid=cfbc49e0cf32263eff20888ca205ab15
The opening was published in the Russian-German peer-reviewed journal “Eastern European Scientific Journal” No. 3/2015. Page 64. June
Scientific journal NBIKS-Nauka.Tehnologii No. 4/2018. Page 104.
(Nanotechnological Society of Russia).
French Maritime Forum.
http://forummarine.forumactif.com/t9357-le-flux-et-reflux-est-le-resultat-de-la-rotation-de-la-terre
Continuation: English forum. "Weather/Earth sciences" https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35094.0
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Kryptid on 29/11/2019 17:41:33
The Bermuda Triangle does not appear to experience losses of ships and planes at a greater rate than other areas of the world based on percentage: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/bermuda-triangle-mystery-solved-latest-theories-dr-karl-kruszelnicki-debunked-unexplained-a7861731.html

If there was some kind of anomalous loss of vehicles, however, killer waves wouldn't explain the loss of aircraft.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 30/11/2019 08:51:18
The vast expanses of the oceans plow a huge number of tidal waves.
When tidal waves collide with the coastline of the continents, tides are formed.
When tidal waves collide in the open ocean, killer waves form.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer Waves
The aforesaid can be easily checked if two liter cans are simultaneously thrown into the bath with water (the distance between the lying cans is 10 cm).
When a tidal wave collides, the resulting killer wave foams and a larger wave pulls through a smaller wave somewhat.
You can create a killer wave with a height of 0.3 meters and a duration of 0.5 seconds, if two divers at the same time jump a "bomb" into a pond from a height of 2 meters (the distance between jumping 3 meters).
If you simultaneously hit two tablespoons in a cup of water and a "killer wave" is formed there.
The height of the killer wave can be calculated by the following formula: H = T1 • ​​T2,
where T is the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.
https://images.app.goo.gl/fNxSM5ZBGN5evNQi9
The mechanism of formation of the tidal hump in the river and killer waves in the oceans is similar and the height of the tidal hump in the river depends on the kinetic energy of the current in the river, and the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.

The place of the possible penetration of the killer waves can be predicted from the circuit maps and, accordingly, plot routes.
An approaching killer wave or tsunami can be partially neutralized by creating a series of oncoming waves, torpedoes or shells.
If two tidal waves do not collide with each other, then they move freely across the ocean at a speed of about 100 km / h and they are called Rossby waves.
Three sisters is a tidal wave collision with three storm waves.

Tidal waves colliding with storm waves create killer waves and are the main cause of ship wrecks.
Knowing the tidal schedule, one should accordingly choose the time and route of movement in the seas and oceans.

https://goo.gl/images/icF4zf
The map shows the areas of the most frequent occurrence of killer waves.

https://images.app.goo.gl/DZWdKoRxvJ214xWP6
The animation shows how a killer wave forms in the Bermuda Triangle as a result of a tidal wave collision.
The clocks installed on the animation show that killer waves in the Bermuda Triangle are generated twice a day, at 12 and at 24 o’clock.
Based on the animation shown, you can create a calendar for the formation of killer waves, not only for future years but also for previous ones.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle
'Killer waves' are most certainly not the main cause of shipwrecks. The majority of ships are wrecked due to running aground.

Pretty much everything else in the above is wrong too. Why waste time posting this nonsense?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 01/12/2019 20:00:55
Why are you  trying to explain something that does not exist?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 01/12/2019 20:17:14
Video to the topic: The Secret of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves
Why do you post such made up nonsense? Why do you post obvious falsehoods such as the one about killer waves being the main cause of shipwrecks?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/12/2019 06:26:33
The stupider the hypothesis, the easier it is to refute it, provided that the opponent is not stupid!
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: chris on 02/12/2019 17:36:39
I had heard that convulsive releases of gas from subsea reservoirs, such as methane clathrates, might be one cause of vessel loss in that geography. Or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/12/2019 18:56:42
OK, Let's try again
THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE DOES NOT EXIST. IT IS A MYTH. YOU DO NOT NEED TO "EXPLAIN" IT.

Any claim to explain it is necessarily wrong.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/12/2019 19:47:54
OK, Let's try again
THE BERMUDA TRIANGLE DOES NOT EXIST. IT IS A MYTH. YOU DO NOT NEED TO "EXPLAIN" IT.

Any claim to explain it is necessarily wrong.
Please read the article carefully, I do not say that the Bermuda Triangle is a special zone.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/12/2019 20:20:37
I do not say that the Bermuda Triangle is a special zone.
It gets 28 mentions on this page as well as being the title of the thread.
That's "saying it is special".
The height of the killer wave can be calculated by the following formula: H = T1 • ​​T2,
where T is the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.
You also need to learn about dimensional analysis. That way you would know that the equation is wrong, before you posted it.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/12/2019 20:36:44
I had heard that convulsive releases of gas from subsea reservoirs, such as methane clathrates, might be one cause of vessel loss in that geography. Or am I mistaken?
The hypothesis that methane that emerges from the earth's surface sharply reduces the density of water and the ship falls into the formed funnel does not stand up to criticism, because
methane emissions cannot mechanically damage ships and oil platforms.
Ship teams always record the impact of a huge wave, but no one has yet recorded a methane release.
The assertion that the imposition of wind waves can be the cause of the formation of killer waves is not true, since killer waves also form during calm.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Halc on 02/12/2019 20:38:41
The stupider the hypothesis, the easier it is to refute it, provided that the opponent is not stupid!
This is new: A poster of a nonsense theory admitting his own stupidity.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/12/2019 20:52:14
I do not say that the Bermuda Triangle is a special zone.
It gets 28 mentions on this page as well as being the title of the thread.
That's "saying it is special".
The height of the killer wave can be calculated by the following formula: H = T1 • ​​T2,
where T is the kinetic energy of the tidal wave.
You also need to learn about dimensional analysis. That way you would know that the equation is wrong, before you posted it.
1. The title of the topic is the Bermuda Triangle, I wrote to attract the attention of the public.
What are killer waves, many do not know.
2. Kinetic energy is measured in joules, and I wrote in meters, so it is more clear.
And this is not the most important thing in this theory.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/12/2019 22:11:43
And this is not the most important thing in this theory.
The thing which proves that your idea is wrong IS the most important bit.
For a start, because I know that you are wrong, I can save myself the bother of reading your other tosh.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Petrochemicals on 09/12/2019 06:19:22
The Bermuda Triangle does not appear to experience losses of ships and planes at a greater rate than other areas of the world based on percentage: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/bermuda-triangle-mystery-solved-latest-theories-dr-karl-kruszelnicki-debunked-unexplained-a7861731.html

If there was some kind of anomalous loss of vehicles, however, killer waves wouldn't explain the loss of aircraft.
I think that needs clarity, hurricaines, the gulf stream, reefs and rogue waves are all going to have an effect, especially on old wood galeons. Its not the only known trouble zone, anywhere with tropical currents and hurricaines is going to have a higher occourence of  rough conditions. The south seas are better known for freak waves as the uninterrupted curculation inflicted by pacific atlantic and indian incursions. I do concede that the bermuda triangle is a bit of a bottlekneck during empire times.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-3TRC_deYyuQ%2FUm_t2yXyz6I%2FAAAAAAAABG8%2FG-MxP7v95-g%2Fs1600%2FRogue%2Bwave%2Blocations.tiff&hash=8f80305412f40ed42fcb81e731ccec27)
http://www.shipwreckexpo.com/bermudashipwreckswrecklist.htm
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 14/12/2019 21:50:18
Who knows, hypotheses or hypothesis authors revealing the mystery of killer waves?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 22/12/2019 09:59:47
'Killer waves' are most certainly not the main cause of shipwrecks. The majority of ships are wrecked due to running aground.
Sailors recognize the depth of the sea from maps, this is not a big problem.
For gales, there is a weather forecast.
And the killer waves, no one sees them and no one predicts.
In the seas and oceans, there are more killer waves than sailors think.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 22/12/2019 11:10:38
'Killer waves' are most certainly not the main cause of shipwrecks. The majority of ships are wrecked due to running aground.
Sailors recognize the depth of the sea from maps, this is not a big problem.
For gales, there is a weather forecast.
And the killer waves, no one sees them and no one predicts.
In the seas and oceans, there are more killer waves than sailors think.
As I am a sailor myself I am well aware of nautical charts. Your response is utter crap  - why do you waste bandwidth with such nonsense? . As I pointed out, your so called 'killer waves' are not the main cause of shipwrecks which means you lied or are woefully ignorant - or indeed both.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 22/12/2019 14:30:53
In the seas and oceans, there are more killer waves than sailors think.
Prove it.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Colin2B on 22/12/2019 22:34:14
And the killer waves, no one sees them and no one predicts.
If no one sees them how do you know they exist?

Your statement is also incorrect because waves of all sizes are being seen from satellites monitoring the oceans in order to measure and predict. This doesn’t help your title question because there is no evidence that there are a greater number of large waves in the so called Bermuda Triangle.

In the seas and oceans, there are more killer waves than sailors think.
That depends on the sailors and how well informed they are.

PS Have you heard the latest news about the Bermuda Triangle?  It’s disappeared.  ;D
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 09/01/2020 22:40:44
In the seas and oceans, there are more killer waves than sailors think.
Prove it.
You are lucky you read the evidence.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 09/01/2020 23:02:42
In the seas and oceans, there are more killer waves than sailors think.
Prove it.
You are lucky you read the evidence.
You have failed to provide any. Instead you make false assertions about 'killer waves' bring the main cause of shipping loss when it is running aground despite your nonsensical assertions. Do you enjoy looking like an idiot? 
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 11/01/2020 22:14:01
In the North Sea, off the coast of Norway, on the Dropner oil platform on January 1, 1995, during a 12-meter storm wave, a killer wave of 25.6 meters was formed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draupner_wave
I believe the reason for this natural phenomenon is a tidal current that moves along the coast of Norway from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave from itself, both towards the coast and towards the open sea.
Also, north of the Dropner oil platform through the Pentland Firth Strait, a current moves at a speed of 16 knots from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave north and south.
https://www.equinor.com/en/what-we-do/partner-operated-fields-in-norway/draupner.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 12/01/2020 09:09:16
In the North Sea, off the coast of Norway,
That's a jolly long way from Bermuda.

Nobody here has ever disputed the existence of unusually big waves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave

But you seem to be trying to use them to explain something which doesn't exist.
That just makes you look silly.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/01/2020 15:14:07
If no one sees them how do you know they exist?
On Wikipedia, there is all the information.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/01/2020 09:44:12
If no one sees them how do you know they exist?
On Wikipedia, there is all the information.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
If you search that page for the word "bermuda" it refers you here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle

where it says ". Most reputable sources dismiss the idea that there is any mystery."
So, what is this thread about?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: tombaker on 26/01/2020 13:13:51
Methane emissions
Some researchers suggest that methane emissions may be the cause of such obscure phenomena. These emissions reduce the density of water and air, and contribute to the fact that ships instantly drown, and aircraft fall or explode.



Infrasound
There are also scientists who suggest that under certain conditions the water column can generate infrasound, which affects the crews, makes people hallucinate, panic and leave the ship.



The mystery is still unresolved.
Many researchers claim that no more ships disappear and die in these waters than elsewhere, just people themselves surrounded this zone with some abnormal features. They do not deny that this territory has a difficult bottom structure (faults and depressions up to 8 km), a complex current and unstable climatic conditions with storms and hurricanes. Perhaps because of this, the Bermuda Triangle has such a bad history.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 26/01/2020 15:06:32
This whole thread is like a discussion on why unicorn horns have a left handed spiral.

If something doesn't exist, you don't have to explain it.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 27/01/2020 21:12:14
If something doesn't exist, you don't have to explain it.
Please read the article carefully, I'm not saying that the Bermuda Triangle is a special zone.
I affirm that abnormally high killer waves form in the Bermuda Triangle zone.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 27/01/2020 22:06:41
If something doesn't exist, you don't have to explain it.
Please read the article carefully, I'm not saying that the Bermuda Triangle is a special zone.
I affirm that abnormally high killer waves form in the Bermuda Triangle zone.
Evidence that they form there as opposed to other places in the ocean?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: marcus1RM on 28/01/2020 14:44:13
Yusup Hizirov, do you believe in those "killer waves"?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/01/2020 07:43:42
Yusup Hizirov, do you believe in those "killer waves"?
On Wikipedia, there is all the information.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/01/2020 11:14:55
If something doesn't exist, you don't have to explain it.
Please read the article carefully, I'm not saying that the Bermuda Triangle is a special zone.
I affirm that abnormally high killer waves form in the Bermuda Triangle zone.
Evidence that they form there as opposed to other places in the ocean?
All currents that move in the seas and oceans reflect a tidal wave, and they are called tidal currents, and the greater the kinetic energy of the currents, the greater the tidal wave.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/ocean-current4.htm
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/01/2020 18:27:20
I'm not saying that the Bermuda Triangle is a special zone.

Yes you are.
read the title.
"Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?".

I affirm that abnormally high killer waves form in the Bermuda Triangle zone.
All killer waves are abnormally high; that's the point that defines them as killer waves.

And, as you have pointed out, they form in the North Sea which (I think I mentioned) is a damned long way from Bermuda.

Is the whole point of this thread a chance to say that big waves happen in lots of places?

Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 29/01/2020 18:45:12
You read the topic title, now read the topic itself.
The highest tides and killer waves are formed in the North Atlantic, in the Pacific Ocean in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, etc.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 29/01/2020 19:19:18
What is the point of this thread?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 29/01/2020 21:34:05
What is the point of this thread?
The OP publicly displaying his idiocy?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/02/2020 01:24:04
And, as you have pointed out, they form in the North Sea
In the North Sea only storm and tidal waves move.
And only the interaction of tidal and storm waves can cause the formation of killer waves.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/02/2020 09:58:26
What is the point of this thread?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 02/02/2020 11:38:51
What is the point of this thread?
There are many hypotheses for the formation of killer waves, this is one of them.
Many sailors are in the seas and oceans, and for them the prediction of the formation of killer waves is vital.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 02/02/2020 13:16:02
this is one of them.
What is?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 02/02/2020 14:25:37
What is the point of this thread?
There are many hypotheses for the formation of killer waves, this is one of them.
Many sailors are in the seas and oceans, and for them the prediction of the formation of killer waves is vital.
Given your complete ignorance of how tides work and other elements of oceanography what you post is worse than useless with regard to prediction of killer waves. It is not a hypotheses, it is speculation based on idiotic speculation.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: accountsconfidant on 03/02/2020 07:20:11
Can this mystery be solved?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 03/02/2020 09:45:14
Can this mystery be solved?
Why are you posting the same idiotic nonsense using a sock account?
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 04/02/2020 19:30:03
Given your complete ignorance of how tides work
This topic is not about how tides are formed.
This topic is about how tidal waves work.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 04/02/2020 19:40:17
This topic is about how tidal waves work.
Given your complete ignorance of how tides work and other elements of oceanography what you post is worse than useless with regard to prediction of killer waves.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 04/02/2020 20:56:05
Given your complete ignorance of how tides work
This topic is not about how tides are formed.
This topic is about how tidal waves work.
Tidal waves - there is a bit of a clue in the name....
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/tidalwave.html
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 06/03/2020 23:25:32
Can this mystery be solved?
It is already solved, moreover, you read it.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: pensador on 07/03/2020 07:24:53
Can this mystery be solved?
It is already solved, moreover, you read it.

I managed to read down the first page of this thread, and realized the point of your confusion, is likely a lack of knowledge on ocean depths, as compared to the north sea. Gas Platforms are placed in shallowish water, when waves form in shallow water where it shelves they get bigger, even coming from 1000m to 40m with a current flowing up onto the shallow area huge waves can form, this can be seen, at various geological locations in the world. The north sea which has recorded super waves hitting gas platforms is shallow.

The Atlantic where the Bermuda triangle is located is very deep. Tidal waves/sunamis caused by under sea earth quakes are hardly noticed in deep water. As they approach land or shallower water the wave is increased sometimes dramatically. Huge Argon gas emissions from the sea floor are a likely cause of the effects seen in the Bermuda triangle, such as compasses not pointing north, and the surface of the ocean releasing lots of small bubbles, as one person who witnessed these effects explained to me. I have no reason not to believe her it was my wife.

In storm conditions in any ocean/sea, huge waves do form as a result of waves from different directions, and moving at slightly different speeds, interacting with each other. 10m waves near hurricanes or 6m waves near storms are not common place, but for some weird reason they always come in threes. Maybe somebody can explain? Its probably a fourier thing, or chaos theory, maybe mother nature stretching her muscles :) . I dont fully understand why this happens maybe some one can explain? why do big waves come in threes?

Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Colin2B on 07/03/2020 10:09:38
10m waves near hurricanes or 6m waves near storms are not common place, but for some weird reason they always come in threes. Maybe somebody can explain? Its probably a fourier thing, or chaos theory, maybe mother nature stretching her muscles :) . I dont fully understand why this happens maybe some one can explain? why do big waves come in threes?

Waves do come in sets, but not necessarily in 3s, often quoted as 7.
What happens starts far out in the ocean where storm conditions create waves of many different wavelengths. Ocean waves are dispersive with the longer wavelengths travelling faster and as these wave travel from their source they leave the ‘clutter’ of smaller waves behind (similar to near field far field effect) and fall into a relatively predictable sequence, usually one with a long wavelength or distance between two consecutive crests. These swell waves also mix (yes Fourier analysis comes into it) with more local wind driven waves where the wavelength is determined by wind strength and the fetch - distance the wind blows over. The sort of swells we are likely to observe on a fair-weather day at the beach will commonly arrive in groups of 12 to 16 waves, which coupled with the tendency of wave groups to bundle their tallest waves in the centre of the group, provides a possible basis for the often quoted seventh wave claim.
 So the first wave in a group is tiny, the next one is bigger and so on until you get the biggest one in the middle of the group. Then they get smaller again. The last one is tiny, so the biggest wave in the group is in the middle, and if there are 14 waves in a group, the seventh wave is the biggest. A similar effect happens with waves in 6 groups, the third is biggest. When sailing it’s helpful to try and count the waves to determine the group size, very important when coming about to know where the lull will fall - the opposite to what surfers are looking for.

The problem with the OP is that he has a very poor understanding of both astronomy and wave/tidal effects. As you say, waves outside the norm are more common in shallower area eg Biscay and areas of upwelling currents eg S Africa coast. What the OP misses in the N Sea was the weather conditions at the time and the effect this had, particularly as you mentioned the crossing sea.

All currents that move in the seas and oceans reflect a tidal wave, and they are called tidal currents, and the greater the kinetic energy of the currents, the greater the tidal wave.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/ocean-current4.htm
This article does not support your assertion.

No one is questioning the existence of rogue waves ie waves whose height is more than twice the significant wave height (Hs or SWH), SWH = mean of the largest third of waves in measurement period.
What we are questioning is your explanation of their formation.

In the North Sea, off the coast of Norway, on the Dropner oil platform on January 1, 1995, during a 12-meter storm wave, a killer wave of 25.6 meters was formed.

I believe the reason for this natural phenomenon is the tidal current that moves along the coast of Norway from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave from itself both towards the coast and towards the open sea.
Also, north of the Dropner oil platform through the Pentland Firth Strait, a current moves from west to east at a speed of 16 knots. reflecting a tidal wave from itself, to the north and south.
As @bored says, there is a flaw in trying to link this to the Bermuda Triangle.

Also, there are serious flaws in your attempt to explain the Draupner wave on January 1 1995.
- If the cause was tidal, you would expect similar waves to appear in sync with the tides - they do not.
- the tidal currents are not waves, so they are not reflected in the way wind derived waves are.

The true cause of the wave is meteorological.
Surface ocean waves are gravity waves formed by wind. On Jan 1 ‘95 there were 2 low pressure systems in this area, one a polar low N of Norway and the second over Sweden. The 10m winds in the area of the platform were over 20m/s (45mph - gale force) but added to this, the polar low was moving S then SE at 15m/s, this is fast and would cause a rise in sea level creating significant energy into the waves and the corresponding wave peak period would be around 19 s.  Add to this the effect of the Swedish low giving winds raising waves crossing those from the polar low. As all sailors know these crossing waves cause a dangerous situation known as a disturbed sea; dangerous because wave height can be very unpredictable with both high steep waves and sudden holes. In these conditions the likelihood of a wave outside the general rule of thumb would not be unusual, the rig just happened to be over where it happened.

Just a note: Rayleigh distribution Hs is 10 metres (33 feet), so statistically:

1 in 10 waves will be larger than 10.7 metres (35 ft)
1 in 100 will be larger than 15.1 metres (50 ft)
1 in 1000 will be larger than 18.6 metres (61 ft)
Etc


Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: pensador on 08/03/2020 09:23:47
10m waves near hurricanes or 6m waves near storms are not common place, but for some weird reason they always come in threes. Maybe somebody can explain? Its probably a fourier thing, or chaos theory, maybe mother nature stretching her muscles :) . I dont fully understand why this happens maybe some one can explain? why do big waves come in threes?

Waves do come in sets, but not necessarily in 3s, often quoted as 7.
What happens starts far out in the ocean where storm conditions create waves of many different wavelengths. Ocean waves are dispersive with the longer wavelengths travelling faster and as these wave travel from their source they leave the ‘clutter’ of smaller waves behind (similar to near field far field effect) and fall into a relatively predictable sequence, usually one with a long wavelength or distance between two consecutive crests. These swell waves also mix (yes Fourier analysis comes into it) with more local wind driven waves where the wavelength is determined by wind strength and the fetch - distance the wind blows over. The sort of swells we are likely to observe on a fair-weather day at the beach will commonly arrive in groups of 12 to 16 waves, which coupled with the tendency of wave groups to bundle their tallest waves in the centre of the group, provides a possible basis for the often quoted seventh wave claim.
 So the first wave in a group is tiny, the next one is bigger and so on until you get the biggest one in the middle of the group. Then they get smaller again. The last one is tiny, so the biggest wave in the group is in the middle, and if there are 14 waves in a group, the seventh wave is the biggest. A similar effect happens with waves in 6 groups, the third is biggest. When sailing it’s helpful to try and count the waves to determine the group size, very important when coming about to know where the lull will fall - the opposite to what surfers are looking for.

The problem with the OP is that he has a very poor understanding of both astronomy and wave/tidal effects. As you say, waves outside the norm are more common in shallower area eg Biscay and areas of upwelling currents eg S Africa coast. What the OP misses in the N Sea was the weather conditions at the time and the effect this had, particularly as you mentioned the crossing sea.

All currents that move in the seas and oceans reflect a tidal wave, and they are called tidal currents, and the greater the kinetic energy of the currents, the greater the tidal wave.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/ocean-current4.htm
This article does not support your assertion.

No one is questioning the existence of rogue waves ie waves whose height is more than twice the significant wave height (Hs or SWH), SWH = mean of the largest third of waves in measurement period.
What we are questioning is your explanation of their formation.

In the North Sea, off the coast of Norway, on the Dropner oil platform on January 1, 1995, during a 12-meter storm wave, a killer wave of 25.6 meters was formed.

I believe the reason for this natural phenomenon is the tidal current that moves along the coast of Norway from west to east, reflecting a tidal wave from itself both towards the coast and towards the open sea.
Also, north of the Dropner oil platform through the Pentland Firth Strait, a current moves from west to east at a speed of 16 knots. reflecting a tidal wave from itself, to the north and south.
As @bored says, there is a flaw in trying to link this to the Bermuda Triangle.

Also, there are serious flaws in your attempt to explain the Draupner wave on January 1 1995.
- If the cause was tidal, you would expect similar waves to appear in sync with the tides - they do not.
- the tidal currents are not waves, so they are not reflected in the way wind derived waves are.

The true cause of the wave is meteorological.
Surface ocean waves are gravity waves formed by wind. On Jan 1 ‘95 there were 2 low pressure systems in this area, one a polar low N of Norway and the second over Sweden. The 10m winds in the area of the platform were over 20m/s (45mph - gale force) but added to this, the polar low was moving S then SE at 15m/s, this is fast and would cause a rise in sea level creating significant energy into the waves and the corresponding wave peak period would be around 19 s.  Add to this the effect of the Swedish low giving winds raising waves crossing those from the polar low. As all sailors know these crossing waves cause a dangerous situation known as a disturbed sea; dangerous because wave height can be very unpredictable with both high steep waves and sudden holes. In these conditions the likelihood of a wave outside the general rule of thumb would not be unusual, the rig just happened to be over where it happened.

Just a note: Rayleigh distribution Hs is 10 metres (33 feet), so statistically:

1 in 10 waves will be larger than 10.7 metres (35 ft)
1 in 100 will be larger than 15.1 metres (50 ft)
1 in 1000 will be larger than 18.6 metres (61 ft)
Etc

Thanks for the answer, the ocean is not easy to model. Storms in the southern ocean can send waves thousands of miles which interact with storms in the northern side of the equator, I wonder if these effects have been taken into account in the idealized models. The really big waves I have experience do come in 3's. I have experienced them first hand on a number of occasions. They are steep fronted, normally breaking on the top, and often do not come from the same direction as the rest of the waves. for example I was side swiped by a hurricane whilst running down wind in gale force winds. The main wave pattern was from the direction of the prevailing gale, every few minutes or so 3 really big waves would appear from slightly a different angle, ie in the direction of the hurricane.

Really big waves in my experience come in threes. I can see how your model would work in a small sea, but is it still valid in an ocean where waves travel thousands of miles and interact with other storm waves causing confused seas.

 
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 10/03/2020 21:32:06

What we are questioning is your explanation of their formation.
Experience to the topic: The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves.
There is no such experience on the Internet.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: The Spoon on 10/03/2020 22:14:31

What we are questioning is your explanation of their formation.
Experience to the topic: The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves.
There is no such experience on the Internet.
Why do you actually think there is a mystery with regard to the Bermuda Triangle?
Secondly, when you state that 'there is no such experience' on the internet, you seem to be displaying ignorance of the existence of waves tanks....although I do grant that your video has a certain naive, childlike charm...
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Colin2B on 10/03/2020 23:18:13
killer waves.
There is no such experience on the Internet.
Garbage
Of course there is. Both open published information and research papers behind paywalls. We understand a great deal about waves great and small and your explanations are nowhere near correct.

Didn’t notice this
I can see how your model would work in a small sea, but is it still valid in an ocean where waves travel thousands of miles and interact with other storm waves causing confused seas.
It isn’t a model. It is statistics based on observations from weather ships, research vessels, buoys etc.
I wrote “Waves do come in sets, but not necessarily in 3s, often quoted as 7.” So I have no doubt that you will see sets of 3, it’s just that they are not the most common in the distribution.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/03/2020 13:38:45
Also, there are serious flaws in your attempt to explain the Draupner wave on January 1 1995.
- If the cause was tidal, you would expect similar waves to appear in sync with the tides - they do not.
That's right, they form every day, but rarely are killer waves huge.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 18/03/2020 14:09:58
I can see how your model would work in a small sea, but is it still valid in an ocean where waves travel thousands of miles and interact with other storm waves causing confused seas.
All physical processes that occur in the ocean occur in the seas and lakes.
In seas and oceans, only wind and tidal waves arise, sometimes tsunamis.
In reality, ocean physics is very simple.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Colin2B on 18/03/2020 17:42:03
Also, there are serious flaws in your attempt to explain the Draupner wave on January 1 1995.
- If the cause was tidal, you would expect similar waves to appear in sync with the tides - they do not.
That's right, they form every day,
Wrong

In reality, ocean physics is very simple.
Then it's a pity you don't understand it.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 11/05/2020 05:03:54
Experience to the topic: The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves.
There is no such experience on the Internet. your video has a certain naive, childlike charm
You can write more comment on your thought.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Bored chemist on 11/05/2020 11:37:15
"Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?"
No the mystery of the Bermuda triangle is "why is anyone still talking about it?".
Title: Re: The mechanism of the formation of waves of killers
Post by: Bored chemist on 11/05/2020 17:27:48
"Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?"
No the mystery of the Bermuda triangle is "why is anyone still talking about it?".
Well, I'm not sure what outcome I expected, but wouldn't have guessed at changing the name of the thread.
Title: Re: The mechanism of the formation of waves of killers
Post by: Colin2B on 11/05/2020 17:32:14
Well, I'm not sure what outcome I expected, but wouldn't have guessed at changing the name of the thread.
I was about to say it doesn't change anything, but it does - it makes even less sense
Title: Re: The mechanism of the formation of waves of killers
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 11/05/2020 18:11:05
"Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?"
No the mystery of the Bermuda triangle is "why is anyone still talking about it?".
Well, I'm not sure what outcome I expected, but wouldn't have guessed at changing the name of the thread.
That was the answer to your question.
Title: Re: Is the mystery killer of the Bermuda Triangle killer waves?
Post by: Yusup Hizirov on 24/05/2020 10:57:36
Experience to the topic: The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves.
There is no such experience on the Internet. your video has a certain naive, childlike charm
You can write more comment on your thought.
Title: Re: The mechanism of the formation of waves of killers
Post by: The Spoon on 26/05/2020 09:41:18
Experience to the topic: The mystery of the Bermuda Triangle - killer waves.
There is no such experience on the Internet. your video has a certain naive, childlike charm
You can write more comment on your thought.
What more do you want? The video is child like, assuming the child has no understanding of how tides work.
Title: Re: The mechanism of the formation of waves of killers
Post by: alancalverd on 26/05/2020 13:05:00
In reality, ocean physics is very simple.
Not to oceanographers, mariners, meteorologists or coastal and marine engineers. Even whales get it wrong sometimes. Similarly rocket science consists of 3 simple equations that were solved centuries ago, but rocket engineering is extremely difficult.