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On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: sim on 10/03/2020 18:50:11

Title: The species paradox
Post by: sim on 10/03/2020 18:50:11
Hi Here is another work of Magister colin leslie dean

The species paradox

http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/books/philosophy/Natural_selection.pdf (http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/books/philosophy/Natural_selection.pdf)

in order to resolve the dean paradox
the dean paradox makes you abandon the word species
in which case biology is destroyed
and all this talk in biology about speciation species this species that is meaningless nonsense

Species are those animals that can only mate with themselves ie interbreed with fertile offspring

Quote
THE COLIN LESLIE DEAN SPECIES PARADOX
The first humans Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain and Able
so who did Cain mate with

similarly
who did the first bird mate with who did the first dog mate with

an individual of species A gives birth to a individual of the new species B so who did this new individual of new species B mate with to continue the new species
either
1)there was no one to mate with- so how did the new species B become common
or
2)a whole lot of species A gave birth toa whole lot of new individuals of species B at the same time so that these new individual members of species B could mate together

if this 2) was the way it happened
we have a major problem
it would mean something made a whole lot of members of species A give birth to a whole lot new members of species B at the same time
we are told species form due to random mutations
so
it is beyound possibility that the same random mutation took place in a whole lot of different members of species A at the same time

the other alternative is that some intelligence was at work

NOW
There is a a dilemma
1)in order to resolve the dean paradox
the dean paradox makes you abandon the word species
in which case biology is destroyed

or
2)biology uses the word bird
signifying it is different from its parent organism
science uses the word species
as such
you have the dean paraodox

in order to resolve the dean paradox
the dean paradox makes you abandon the word species
in which case biology is destroyed
and all this talk in biology about speciation species this species that is meaningless nonsense
Title: Re: The species paradox
Post by: atbsphotography on 11/03/2020 01:42:15
Consider the Dean Paradox to be proved wrong and insubstantial to our understanding of the interbreeding of species. To put it in an easier way to understand, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that species interbreeding and natural selection played a massive role in the advancement of different species and the more astute stronger ones survived. Take for example Neanderthals and Denisovans, they are both different species of early hominid. However, there is evidence for both of them having interbred with Homo Sapiens and thus our species advanced and the other two died out. That in itself proves that natural selection and interbreeding of species does go hand in hand with one another.

Also this;
Quote
The first humans Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain and Able
so who did Cain mate with

Is from the bible, therefore, there is literally no evidence to say these people existed, science is either consequential and proven or theoretical and ready to be proven. The Dean Paradox on the other hand is neither of these.
Title: Re: The species paradox
Post by: The Spoon on 11/03/2020 08:36:12
Hi Here is another work of Magister colin leslie dean

The species paradox

http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/books/philosophy/Natural_selection.pdf (http://gamahucherpress.yellowgum.com/books/philosophy/Natural_selection.pdf)

in order to resolve the dean paradox
the dean paradox makes you abandon the word species
in which case biology is destroyed
and all this talk in biology about speciation species this species that is meaningless nonsense

Species are those animals that can only mate with themselves ie interbreed with fertile offspring

Quote
THE COLIN LESLIE DEAN SPECIES PARADOX
The first humans Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain and Able
so who did Cain mate with

similarly
who did the first bird mate with who did the first dog mate with

an individual of species A gives birth to a individual of the new species B so who did this new individual of new species B mate with to continue the new species
either
1)there was no one to mate with- so how did the new species B become common
or
2)a whole lot of species A gave birth toa whole lot of new individuals of species B at the same time so that these new individual members of species B could mate together

if this 2) was the way it happened
we have a major problem
it would mean something made a whole lot of members of species A give birth to a whole lot new members of species B at the same time
we are told species form due to random mutations
so
it is beyound possibility that the same random mutation took place in a whole lot of different members of species A at the same time

the other alternative is that some intelligence was at work

NOW
There is a a dilemma
1)in order to resolve the dean paradox
the dean paradox makes you abandon the word species
in which case biology is destroyed

or
2)biology uses the word bird
signifying it is different from its parent organism
science uses the word species
as such
you have the dean paraodox

in order to resolve the dean paradox
the dean paradox makes you abandon the word species
in which case biology is destroyed
and all this talk in biology about speciation species this species that is meaningless nonsense

You appear to be spamming the forum by posting the same or similar junk in various threads. Do you think anybody takes this nonsense seriously?
Title: Re: The species paradox
Post by: evan_au on 11/03/2020 08:48:09
Quote from: sim
if this 2) was the way it happened we have a major problem...
it would mean something made a whole lot of members of species A give birth to a whole lot new members of species B at the same time
There are two fairly similar-looking species: Chimpanzees and Bonobos (although their social structures are radically different).

The current hypothesis is that they started as a single species, on either side of the Congo Creek.
But when this grew into the Congo River, it was too wide to wade or swim across, and what was previously a single species divided into two species which diverged from each other.

I don't see a big problem here. The Dean paradox does not apply.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo
Title: Re: The species paradox
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 12/03/2020 08:36:31
The concept of species based on ability to reproduce sexually doesn't apply for organisms without sexual reproduction capability, such as virus and bacteria. It also suffer from a problem where species boundaries arise gradually, such as in ring species.
Quote
In biology, a ring species is a connected series of neighbouring populations, each of which can interbreed with closely sited related populations, but for which there exist at least two "end" populations in the series, which are too distantly related to interbreed, though there is a potential gene flow between each "linked" population.[1] Such non-breeding, though genetically connected, "end" populations may co-exist in the same region (sympatry) thus closing a "ring". The German term Rassenkreis, meaning a ring of populations, is also used.

Ring species represent speciation and have been cited as evidence of evolution. They illustrate what happens over time as populations genetically diverge, specifically because they represent, in living populations, what normally happens over time between long-deceased ancestor populations and living populations, in which the intermediates have become extinct. The evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins remarks that ring species "are only showing us in the spatial dimension something that must always happen in the time dimension".[2]

Formally, the issue is that interfertility (ability to interbreed) is not a transitive relation; if A can breed with B, and B can breed with C, it does not mean that A can breed with C, and therefore does not define an equivalence relation. A ring species is a species with a counterexample to the transitivity of interbreeding.[3] However, it is unclear whether any of the examples of ring species cited by scientists actually permit gene flow from end to end, with many being debated and contested.
Quote
Ring species also present an interesting case of the species problem for those seeking to divide the living world into discrete species. All that distinguishes a ring species from two separate species is the existence of the connecting populations; if enough of the connecting populations within the ring perish to sever the breeding connection then the ring species' distal populations will be recognized as two distinct species. The problem is whether to quantify the whole ring as a single species (despite the fact that not all individuals can interbreed) or to classify each population as a distinct species (despite the fact that it can interbreed with its near neighbours). Ring species illustrate that species boundaries arise gradually and often exist on a continuum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species
Title: Re: The species paradox
Post by: puppypower on 13/03/2020 13:16:07
Quote
THE COLIN LESLIE DEAN SPECIES PARADOX
The first humans Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain and Abel
so who did Cain mate with

The answer is in the bible. Cain was a tiller of the soil and Abel was a herder of animals. After Cain kills his brother Abel, this symbolized that farming superseded migratory herding. There was an evolutionary change in the direction of humans. This was one of the changes connected to the formation of civilization; migration becomes more stationary. This symbol gives us a time element of about 6-10K years ago, based on science data for the formation of the first modern civilizations. This why the bible uses this number. It would be proven by science of the future 

Cain is exiled by God for killing Abel. Cain complains and laments to God, that whomever shall come upon me shall kill me! The question becomes who are these whomevers, if Adam and Eve are the first two humans and they had only two sons at the time? Cain is afraid of the other herders and friends of Abel, who are still pre-human; instinctive. God gives Cain a sign or talisman which gives him protection from harm. Cain can move among the herders in his exile. He would breed with the pre-human herder babes and father cultures

The bible is not talking about humans in terms of biology. Rather, Adam symbolized  a change in the human mind that created a new version of human. The whomever were biological humans but with a different mind set, that was more natural and instinctive.

The analogy is a wolf and domestic dog can breed, since they are both canines and have dog DNA. However, they have totally different mindsets, One is natural and one is domesticated, Half wolf and half dogs tend to retain most of the wild side of the wolf. But will be offspring that become more gentle and can become domesticated.

Civilization required the that pre-humans  repress thousands of years of migratory instinct and live in large communities in smaller places. This was unnatural at first and the first civilization aborted. What was needed was a new mindset that allowed this to stick. Adam was the first with this kind of mindset. Adam was good at science and math. He was domesticated, to God, and lived among the more natural and wild hunters and gatherers.
Title: Re: The species paradox
Post by: puppypower on 14/03/2020 11:34:08
The observation of the differences between wolves and domestic dogs, shows that one species who can cross breed with another, can have two very different temperaments. The wolf is more natural and instinctive, while the domestic dog is more repressed and geared toward the needs of domestication.

The difference has less to do with DNA and more to do with the operating system of the brain and how these different operating systems deals with reality. In terms of an analogy, the wolf has an old fashion DOS operating system, that takes skill to master, while the domesticated dog has an updated windows operating system that is more user friendly.

In the case of Adam and Eve, they were analogous to the first two domesticated humans. The biological humans who around that time, were more analogous to the wolves. Adam and Eve, like domesticated animals, has lost their natural instinct, The tree of life was sealed to them. Instead their new operating system was more connected to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This symbolized being based on learned knowledge, through culture. The masters of culture teach the human dog the tricks it must do. In the case of Adam and Eve, the master was God; inner voice. The outer voice of culture did not yet exist. What would have existed is unconscious projection and the spirit world; vision of the inner tweaks needed.

The bible says Adam was not formed through normal biological procreation. Rather he was formed from the dust of the earth. If Adam symbolized an update in the operating system of the human brain, away from the "wolf man", this symbolism means the neural change in Adam happened after he was born, biologically. The analogy is like taking a wolf pup and teaching it to be domesticated. One has to start from the ground up.

As the story goes, Adam also has a second reboot and install. This is precipitated by loneliness in the Garden of Eden. The first update in his neural operating system, had made him self aware. He  realizes he was alone since he as the only one of his kind. He had lost parts of his natural instinct and had become similar to a modern ego; will and choice. There is a second reboot to finish the installation process. Eve appears from the second reboot. Adam needed a helpmate and so he domesticates Eve so she can upgrade.

In terms of science, evidence shows that the first attempts at civilization appear about 10,000 years ago. However, these did not last. These would all abort until about 6000 year ago. This latter time frame is when domesticated humans, solidify. The first 4000 years suggest that the "wolf" man was not easy to domesticate, but would revert back to the wild. Civilization would abort. But  eventually, after the second reboot, a new fully domesticated human appear.
Title: Re: The species paradox
Post by: hamdani yusuf on 17/03/2020 09:48:08
The answer is in the bible.
Or alternatively, Vedas, Quran, Tao Te Ching, Bundahishn, Popol Vuh, or Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, which are equally valid when interpreted adequately.