Naked Science Forum

Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: jman05 on 30/06/2005 23:45:55

Title: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: jman05 on 30/06/2005 23:45:55
Ok.  THis site has been driving me crazy for months and I dont know if its legit or now but this guy named Bob Lazar Claimed to have worked at area 51 on a recovered space craft and was told to reverse engineer it.  I heard about him on the history channel.  Please click this link and dont just blow it off.  Heres some highlights of what he talks about.

Inside the reactor, protons are bombarded into the nucleus of the Element 115 atom, transmuting it to Element 116. When this occurs the element decays and releases / radiates small amounts of antimatter which is released into a tube, protecting it from reacting with matter. This antimatter is then directed toward the end of the tube where the antimatter and a gaseous matter collide and annihilate, converting 100% of the matter into energy. This energy is then converted into electrical energy by a thermoelectric generator at 100% efficiency and is used to amplify the gravity wave.

He answers this:How is it possible to traverse vast distances (light-years!) in space without traveling faster than the speed of light?  

But he discusses gravity A and B.  But I think what hes talking about is untrue because its nto gravity that holds protons together but electro magnetic engergy?
Title: Re: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: DoctorBeaver on 01/07/2005 20:59:49
I've read some stuff on him & I'm not convinced
Title: Re: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: rabeldin on 02/07/2005 02:25:18
I distrust anything that claims 100% efficiency. 99.99% will fit down my throat, but not 100%. Entropy cannot be defied.

R A Beldin,
Improbable Statistician
Title: Re: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: Kryptid on 20/07/2005 22:18:59
I've read much about Robert Lazar (I even own a 1:48 scale model of his claimed flying saucer), and I currently dismiss at least some key points of his claims.

First of all, he claims that element 115 (ununpentium) is a stable element. According to theory, there are certain numbers of nucleons called "magic numbers" which confer a special added stability to the nucleus that possesses them. Examples of such magic numbers for protons are 2, 8, 20, 28, 50, 82, 114, and 126. The atomic number 115 is not one of these numbers. In fact, no odd number is ever a magic number.

The "island of stability", which is a theoretical place in the super-heavy elements where a particular element is much more stable than those before or after it has been predicted. This element is 114, also called ununquadium. However, even an atom of this surprisingly stable element only lasted 30 seconds (as opposed to fractions of a second seen in other super-heavies) before it decayed. If even this unusually stable element decays so quickly, then 115 should decay at an even faster rate, quite contrary to Lazar's claims. It makes no sense to say that 115 is stable.

Secondly, his description of the strong nuclear force makes no sense. He calls it a type of gravity, when in fact, it is much different from gravity. Gravity has an infinite range, the SNF only acts on subatomic levels. Gravity is extremely weak, the SNF is extremely strong. Gravity acts on mass, SNF acts on color or hypercharge. Gravity, as we know it, is only attractive, while the SNF can be attractive or repulsive. The exchange particles of the two forces have much different properties.

An obvious mistake is how he describes the RANGE of the strong nuclear force in 115. He says it extends past the atom's perimeter. In a typical nucleus, the range of the SNF is on the order of 10^-15 meters, while an atomic diameter is on the order of 10^-10 meters. Given Lazar's claims, the SNF in an atom of element 115 somehow has a range that is around 100,000 times larger than what it is typically supposed to be. I find that hard to swallow.

Perhaps he made up the story entirely. Perhaps he really did work at Area S4 but was given flawed information by his superiors there. Perhaps he simply got mixed up and didn't remember things correctly. Or, perhaps he has really stumbled onto some new physics. As of now, I don't believe the craft (if there is one) operates in the way he says it does.
Title: Re: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: neilep on 20/07/2005 23:18:03
Is it generally accepted that UFOs are saucer shaped ?....I mean it so looks like a 50's B movie Flying Saucer !...and why would it need to be saucer shaped anyway ?

( are the same as women.... just inside out !!(
Title: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: felixtheferret on 19/06/2007 00:10:36
Hi there!
  I too have read much on Lazar.  It's a lovely idea, a beautifully-concocted story. I sooooo want to believe it, because his description of how the changing gravity field makes the craft appear (to the ground observer) to describe very quick, impossibly quick, arcs in the sky, matches my own one and only lifetime UFO sighting over 10 years ago.  Nothing since, sniff.  However, there is but one GLARING hole in his story.  The previous post about ununpentium not being stable is simply not true - as Lazar has pointed out, the ununpentium produced artificially in heavy ion colliders has nowhere near the correct amount of neutrons to make it stable.  So far so good.  We can talk about the weird ideas about gravity B waves and all the rest for hours. However, the GLARING hole is in his description of the inside of the spacecraft - that it had little chairs and tables!  Ha ha!  Now,  knowing the diversity of forms of life we have just here on planet Earth, what is the statistical probability of an alien race, from another planet, based on a totally different chemical system to life of earth, having evolved to have two arms and two legs and a head much the same as the shape of a human?  Infinitesimally small!   The reason aliens look like this on Star Trek and Dr.Who is of course to save money on the special effects budget.  I think it was either Hynek or Jung who observed that 'contactees' descriptions of alien craft had an uncanny statistical correlation with the Holywood props in fashion at that period in time, e.g. 50's 'contactees' describe alien craft 'full of giant levers' whereas from the 90's, oddly enough, the alien craft are described as having lots of advanced computers in!  ha ha!   [:)]   The guy is fake, almost certainly.  My take on it is that this 115 gravity-wave B idea is his own theory, and this is his spectacular way of publicizing the idea or getting discussion on it.  Otherwise, area S4 exists, doesn't do aliens but is still doing something sinister (e.g. doomsday bomb) and this is his way of bringing attention to the site while not saying anything about what really gos on there.  But I wouldn't discount his theory - like said, until we can make ununpentium with the correct amount of neutrons in , we cannot disprove everything he is claiming   [:)]

Just remember - scientists euphemistically describe GR and QM as 'incomplete.'  What this really means, of course, is that the theories are wrong !!!
don't let anyone tell you otherwise!!!  [:D]
Title: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: syhprum on 19/06/2007 10:46:02
I thought that 'How to build a pyramid' had plumbed the depths but this UFO nonsense goes even deeper.
Title: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: edward2007 on 19/06/2007 11:03:33
Kind a reminds me of Erich von Däniken and that so called documentary they made to "prove" aliens were here. (somewhere in the late 60's or earky 70's, if my memory serves me well)

Of course, for nice photographs, a disk has a stable and predictable orbit when you throw it in the air. Wait for it to yield a nice composition, and presto: another UFO photograph. What I always thought strange is that a well trained and highly skilled professional camerammen always manage to come up with very low quality pics. Something smells in Denmark, is what I think.

Just too bad it gives honest SF a bad name.
Title: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: Ashtari on 19/06/2007 15:34:02
Try reading The Tesla Theories.

Then see what the Ruskies are doing with aeronautical research in the line of flying discs, stealth techniques and time travel in particular.  Apparently Hitler was working with the Tesla theories and with Nordic Runic symbolism.

Rumour from very good internet sources have it that the Auswitch Nazi crew are working hand in hand with Pentagon in the Arizona subterranean Research Stations (with ETs amongst them to boot [;)])

If you give a shout, I will dig up the info from the www with pictures as well.   [:P]

All velly intelesting ven vun luks at ze whole picha!  [;D] [;D]

Title: Please take seriously(deep space travel)
Post by: edward2007 on 19/06/2007 17:04:55
<Rumour from very good internet sources >

Can I interest you in a fine land deal? It's just a teeeeeeny bit damp, but it is rather cheap too...