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I would like to know if it would be possible to run Cold water through your central heating system? Doing so would cool the air around the radiator. If you connected a fan/vent system to either move the hot air from above to the radiator or just found a way to move the air around the room; the effect should work to reduce the overall temperature in the room.I don't know how effectively you could regulate the temperature. It certainly would be a less environmentally damaging way of cooling a building, if for no other reason than, it might be possible just to add a few componets to existing central heating systems. You certainly would not have hot air thrown out of the building as you do now with air conditioners.There may be problems with the changing temperatures and the pipe work, and the cooling process may be slightly slower than air con, but it would be cheep and easy(hopefully).So would it work?
I think he's asking if cold water could be pumped through central heating radiators to produce a cooling effect, as opposed to hot water warming the room.
Is that not what a swamp cooler does ? Is that different?
Doesn't it blow air through a water like saturated filter or panel so when water evaporates from panels you get cool moist air right??? that
Here they set up or hang from your ceilng water is used to pump small amounts in! as above if I am right!
Quote from: Karen W. on 20/09/2007 12:54:13Doesn't it blow air through a water like saturated filter or panel so when water evaporates from panels you get cool moist air right??? that Quote from: Karen W. on 20/09/2007 12:55:30Here they set up or hang from your ceilng water is used to pump small amounts in! as above if I am right! You mean an Emerson cooler they suck air through a wet filter. No totally different, didn't know they were called swamp coolers in the states though, so I learnt something new today; Thankyou karen.
Quote from: sooyeah on 20/09/2007 13:06:28Quote from: Karen W. on 20/09/2007 12:54:13Doesn't it blow air through a water like saturated filter or panel so when water evaporates from panels you get cool moist air right??? that Quote from: Karen W. on 20/09/2007 12:55:30Here they set up or hang from your ceilng water is used to pump small amounts in! as above if I am right! You mean an Emerson cooler they suck air through a wet filter. No totally different, didn't know they were called swamp coolers in the states though, so I learnt something new today; Thankyou karen.Your welcome I know very little about them.. the exact process I am not sure of someone more qualified then me could probably explain properly.. I am probably wrong anyway.
The main problem when using a central heating system for cooling is that radiators are designed to radiate heat. They can do so because their temperature is higher than the surroundings, so they emit a net heat radiation.If you run cold water through your central heating system, the radiators will absorb heat radiation from the surroundings, but these surrounding are not designed to radiate.
You will have some cooling of the air between the panels of the radiator, which will make that air heavier and create a circulation, but for a same absolute temperature difference between radiator and surroundings, the yield (= heat transfer) will be lower.
A second point is that because of the cooling of the air, you will have condensation of water on radiator panels. Airco installations are designed to deal with this, a central heating system is not, and you'll have your radiators dripping.
Besides, this condensation gives off energy (heat) and will again reduce the effectively of your cooling system.
plus there's the cost of keeping the water cold enough to make any difference. water heats up pretty quickly
Eric are you saying that it would effectively remove water from the air as well?
Just for the record radiators don't do a lot of radiating. Almost all the heat transfer is by convection.
You could run cold water through the same pipes and radiators and get an effect. There are 2 problems what do you do with the water fater it warms up (or equivalently, how do you cool it back down again)
and 2 the heat transfer from radiators is typically from a radiator at about 60C to a room at about 20 so there's a 40 degree difference. With a "cold" radiator you would need to chill the radiators below freezing to get the same rate of heat transfer.
There's another problem too. If the radiators were cool enough, water would condense out onto them and drip off causeing damage to carpets etc and corrosion of the pipes etc.
Hi Sooyeah. What you're describing sounds like a water source heatpump, I think. Here are a few links that describe them.
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It was hopeless - the air started off as almost saturated and ended up totally saturated. The room was hardly any cooler but even more SWEATY. A dead loss.Great for the Sahara, I should imagine.
It is best to use circulating air rather than water with a heat pump system because of the need to dry the air to avoid condensation This is usually done by cooling the air initially a lot cooler than you need to and allowing it to warm up a little before you use it. The true heat pump system takes heat from the ground or some other reservoir in winter and puts it back in the summer and can be overall considerably more efficient than direct heating and cooling.
Your proposed system would have the effect of lowering the humidity, too. Good value.
"I know, I was hoping that convention could work the other way to; the only problem is hot air rises and cold air falls."Convection will run in reverse. The cold air runs down the radiator and onto the floor wher it cools the rest of the room. Meanwhile warm air is drawn down to the cold radiator.
"If the water was flowing through the system there would obviously be a section that had cooled the water down in the first place, so it would be re-cooled on passing through it."I know it would have to be cooled if you were going to recirculate it. What I asked was how you would do that (specifically I said "how do you cool it back down again".
"I think it would be silly to have a freezing cold radiator, you can just see the headline 'little child gets tongue suck'. Not forgetting that, frozen water will not flow. "Well, that's why I listed that as a potential problem.One idea that strikes me is that you could use a swamp cooler type arrangement outside to cool a radiator to supply the cold water to circulate through the house radiators.That gets round the problem that swamp coolers humidify the air- it doesn't matter so much if the air they are humidifying is outside.It also means that the water can't get colder than the dew point of the air so there won't be a condensation problem.
I would like to know if it would be possible to run Cold water through your central heating system? Doing so would cool the air around the radiator. If you connected a fan/vent system to either move the hot air from above to the radiator or just found a way to move the air around the room; the effect should work to reduce the overall temperature in the room.
Unfortunately there's a very simple theoretical limit on the efficiency of any heat-pump, and for refridgeration device the efficiency rapidly gets worse as the difference increases between the temperature you're trying to cool to and the temperature at which you can dump/sink the heat. Although you might save some infrastructure by re-using existing heating radiator systems, overall the running costs can't be any lower than a dedicated cooling system...
and since existing radiators aren't optimised for cooling it'll probably be much less effective and efficient overall. Sorry.
To minimise condensation (which is going to cost a lot of energy but not achieve much cooling)
I imagine you'd want to run the water ("radiators") not too much below the target air temperature. This implies that you're going to need forced airflow (fans) to assist the air-circulation around the cold-"radiator" fins.
Well, if you turned off the radiators, there would be an absence of heat. And absence of heat is cold. So yes, technically speaking, using radiators(or rather, NOT using radiators) could cool the house.
I think we understand your idea. There are just two comments to make (in the context of the UK).1. You need a refrigeration unit to produce your cold water (unless you live next to a mountain stream). So it costs you.2. Your radiators will be dripping water all over the floor and may not cool the room very effectively, in any case (they would need to be near the ceiling).Why do you think it is not done already if it such a good idea?
I tend to agree; air con is pretty essential in some countries if you can't build houses in the traditional way but, in the UK, wear shorts and T shirt and ignore the sweat.As for "teething troubles" has it even been tried?