What is IQ? What does it mean?

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Offline stana

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What is IQ? What does it mean?
« on: 25/11/2007 14:15:08 »
Hey guys i got a few questions about an IQ test i just did.

I go a score of 109. and i read on wikipedia the average score of an adult is 100?? (im only young)

(Not meaning to be modest) [;D]

What is this score out of?

Thanks
« Last Edit: 24/06/2011 14:35:10 by chris »

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Offline SquarishTriangle

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #1 on: 25/11/2007 14:32:29 »
I don't think there is a defined limit, but 100 is always the average IQ score by default...so whatever you get is relative to what is considered the spread of the general population.

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Offline stana

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #2 on: 25/11/2007 14:40:11 »
There has to be a definite number..If theres a certain amount of numbers and scores =/

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #3 on: 25/11/2007 14:59:47 »
Firstly, although it is common for IQ scores to be normalised for 100 to be the population average, it certainly is not the case even that every IQ score does that (but the vast majority are).

As SquarishTriangle says, each test has its own numbers.  If you don't know the specifics of the test, the numbers themselves are meaningless.

Mensa, which is an organisation that requires that you have a minimum IQ to join (there are other similar organisations, but as far as I know, Mensa was the first, and certainly is the largest and best known).  Mensa do not ask that you have a particular IQ score, but it merely asks that the score you have places you in the top 2% of the population for that particular test (they themselves administer two tests, and for each of those tests they have a different score, but in both cases, the requirement is that you are in the top 2% of the population for the test).

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Offline kdlynn

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #4 on: 25/11/2007 15:07:35 »
where did you take the test? i know some of the online ones if not all are not nearly as reliable as a real test. at least, that's what one of my professors told us

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Offline stana

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #5 on: 25/11/2007 15:14:47 »
I took the test on th internet..from a website..i stil have the link if i can post it?

I havent read your terms and conditions yet..and i dont know about your advertisment rules..

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Offline stana

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #6 on: 25/11/2007 15:16:51 »
http://uk.tickle.com/test/iq/intro.html

Thats where i took the test

^^^ Online IQ test  [;D]
« Last Edit: 25/11/2007 15:22:12 by stana »

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #7 on: 25/11/2007 15:19:28 »
There is no problem with a pertinent link that fits in with the wider context of an ongoing discussion.  A link out of context, or if the link suddenly finds its way into every single conversation, might be more of a problem, but a single posting of a link pertinent to the discussion (and if you explain what the link is, so people know what to expect when the jump off there) is perfectly ok.

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #8 on: 25/11/2007 15:54:58 »
http://uk.tickle.com/test/iq/intro.html

Thats where i took the test

^^^ Online IQ test  [;D]

My score came to 138.

I note that the test is not timed (not all IQ tests are, but most are).

Some of the questions are very cultural in nature (knowledge of many common sayings that one is more likely to know if one is well read, but has no bearing on ones logical thought processes).

There is no indication at all from the test as to how the tests compare on a population wide basis.

On the other hand, they seem to be more interested in selling what they have to offer than in academic thoroughness.

It also does not say whether the scores are age adjusted.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2007 16:21:40 by another_someone »

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Offline elegantlywasted

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #9 on: 25/11/2007 17:14:04 »
If one wanted to write a genuine IQ test, how do they go about doing so? I mean, the ones online are great funa nd all but I doubt they hold any merit. Does one need to contact their local Mensa chapter or would a school or college be ablet o provide one?
-Meg

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #10 on: 25/11/2007 17:33:13 »
If one wanted to write a genuine IQ test, how do they go about doing so? I mean, the ones online are great funa nd all but I doubt they hold any merit. Does one need to contact their local Mensa chapter or would a school or college be ablet o provide one?

Mensa get their IQ tests from outside, so that would not help.

Probably best to talk to the psychology department of some university.

The problem is that writing one is one thing, but normalising it to the population, and verifying that the results meet expectations, is quite another.  Ideally you should test it against a large and varied sample population of whom you know the IQ from other tests.

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #11 on: 25/11/2007 17:39:19 »
someone once said "having a high IQ is merely a measure of ones ability to do well at IQ tests". I can't fault him.
Save your money Meg, and buy more beers with it.

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #12 on: 25/11/2007 17:47:03 »
someone once said "having a high IQ is merely a measure of ones ability to do well at IQ tests". I can't fault him.

Ofcourse it is.  It is like say winning an Olympic 100 metres race is nothing more that proving you can run fast over short distances.  Does this mean that nobody should run an Olympic 100 metres race, because its outcome is meaningless?

One should not overvalue its meaning, but what meaning it has depends on the person.  I cannot run short distances very fast, and have no interest in the fact that other people do like to run short distances very fast, but that is not to denigrate what that might mean for them, its just that it means nothing for me (no, I'm not taking it personally - just saying that we are all different, and we naturally take some pleasure in our own strengths, without denigrating the very different strengths of other people).

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Offline elegantlywasted

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #13 on: 25/11/2007 17:51:54 »
Save your money Meg, and buy more beers with it.

Done and done.
-Meg

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #14 on: 25/11/2007 17:56:58 »
would you say Hawkins was a genious? Would you like to know what he thinks of I.Q. tests?

Quote
What is your I.Q.?

I have no idea. People who boast about their I.Q. are losers.

enough said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine/12QUESTIONS.html

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Offline rosy

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #15 on: 25/11/2007 18:38:47 »
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One should not overvalue its meaning, but what meaning it has depends on the person.  I cannot run short distances very fast, and have no interest in the fact that other people do like to run short distances very fast, but that is not to denigrate what that might mean for them, its just that it means nothing for me (no, I'm not taking it personally - just saying that we are all different, and we naturally take some pleasure in our own strengths, without denigrating the very different strengths of other people).

Yes and no. Thing is, IQ tests are used as a surrogate for ability to do other things. If you're a hundred metre sprint athelete it's "common sense" that this is unlikely to be predictive (in any but the crudest scale) of ability in competition over say the marathon distance.

An ability to fill in the blanks in common phrases, spot the trick question in a mental arithmetic problem, etcetc, are (given a minimum standard of some combination of native wit and application) going to be quite straightforward to learn. My performance in IQ tests at age 9-10 was a looong way above the normal bands (forget the numbers, they weren't very interesting), but it wasn't because I'm particularly clever... I just happened not to enjoy school playtimes much. My Gran used to send me books of logic problems, verbal reasoning exercises, maths challenges, etc and if I returned them filled in I got a prize. So I spent most of the school breaktimes in my year 3 and 4 sitting on the floor with a pencil, and got very good. Doubt I'd do so well 15 years on, despite the extra experience, knowledge, etc I've gained in that time.

As an exercise like crosswords or sudoku, IQ tests are quite good fun, and I don't have (nuch of) a problem with these online IQ tests. But in the "real world" they worry me because they are culturally specific in rather insidious ways. People tend to regard quantitative data as in some way more authoritative (and easier to use because you can set a specific cut-off point), and IQ tests give them quantitative "answers" without necessarily the error bars that ought to go with any quantitative data if we are to understand what it means and how much importance we should attach to it.

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #16 on: 25/11/2007 19:25:04 »
would you say Hawkins was a genious? Would you like to know what he thinks of I.Q. tests?
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What is your I.Q.?

I have no idea. People who boast about their I.Q. are losers.

enough said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine/12QUESTIONS.html

Agreed - your achievements are what you achieve, not what you shout about.  IQ tests may or may not predict future achievement, but they are not of themselves a record of achievement.

Ofcourse, what is there to boast about regarding winning a 100 metre sprint is another question.

Then again, asking celebrities their opinions on matters outside of their field of expertise, and placing weight upon those opinions greater than the weight you would place upon any other lay persons opinion, merely because they are a celebrity, is just as meaningless as the abuse of IQ numbers.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2007 19:46:12 by another_someone »

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #17 on: 25/11/2007 19:42:33 »
Yes and no. Thing is, IQ tests are used as a surrogate for ability to do other things. If you're a hundred metre sprint athelete it's "common sense" that this is unlikely to be predictive (in any but the crudest scale) of ability in competition over say the marathon distance.

That IQ is a an inappropriate surrogate is a problem, that that is a problem of people who use IQ (like race, or many other things) as a surrogate for something it is not.

An ability to fill in the blanks in common phrases, spot the trick question in a mental arithmetic problem, etcetc, are (given a minimum standard of some combination of native wit and application) going to be quite straightforward to learn.

There is consistent evidence that good IQ tests do test innate thought processes rather than learned skills (but that is the key difference between a good and a bad IQ test).

I was originally going to write 'innate ability', but then thought to rephrase it, because I think it is more complex than a mere ability.  To regard it as an ability is to assume that people with high IQ are the same as people with low IQ, but with something extra added on.  My own personal observation (including talking to other people) is that high IQ is more about a difference in thought process rather than superiority in thought process, which is why it is not so easy to teach.  Having a high IQ does not mean that you can solve problems better than people with low IQs, but it means you can solve certain types of problem (those suited to people with high IQs) better than people with low IQ, and more specifically, that you think like other people with high IQs (the problem solving skills are more a by-product of a world view - so the fact that you learnt to solve puzzles as a kid was not so much a question of whether you could be taught to solve puzzles, but that you had a mind that felt comfortable solving such puzzles, more comfortable doing that than playing in the playground).

People tend to regard quantitative data as in some way more authoritative (and easier to use because you can set a specific cut-off point), and IQ tests give them quantitative "answers" without necessarily the error bars that ought to go with any quantitative data if we are to understand what it means and how much importance we should attach to it.

This is true - but it is about the abuse of the figures, and is a comment about people rather than the numbers (yes, "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" - but it is still about abuse of numbers rather than the numbers themselves - and IQ is just another statistical measure).

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Offline JimBob

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #18 on: 25/11/2007 20:13:44 »
IQ tests are just as Rosy said - "full of sound and furry and meaning nothing" in the real world.

Case in point -  my step sister: brilliant woman, former professor of Human Physiology and Pathology at a very prestigious medical school with 2 Ph.D's and a M.D. but has trouble with the most simple tasks of being a human being. Absolutely no common sense. Left her children to raise themselves because she "didn't have time" and cannot have a meaningful relationship with another human being - a very cold, arrogant person and a very lonely person.

I would rather have common sense and 'people skills rather' than just a high IQ. It is why I declined my invitation to become a member of Mensa - the people I found there in 1962 were too overly impressed with themselves, poor socially and just plain boring with their astounding exhibitions of learning and their belief that their opinion was worth more than the common man. Hell, I have seen brilliant people doing menial jobs and wizards at their profession. One was my grandfather. He was a carpenter, never had a day in school, knew nothing about trigonometry but he could build a house and pitch a roof, as well as do complicated gables all by just looking into his mind to see how to do it. He could visualize it. He was also a very loving human being.
We are Human beings, not thinking machines.

I would much rather be know to be a good human being than a good mind.

And to dismiss the opinion of Steven Hawking is the height of arrogance.

would you say Hawkins was a genious? Would you like to know what he thinks of I.Q. tests?

Quote
What is your I.Q.?[the question asked of him]

I have no idea. People who boast about their I.Q. are losers. [Steven's answer]

enough said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/12/magazine/12QUESTIONS.html



 
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #19 on: 25/11/2007 21:51:06 »
IQ tests are just as Rosy said - "full of sound and furry and meaning nothing" in the real world.

Case in point -  my step sister: brilliant woman, former professor of Human Physiology and Pathology at a very prestigious medical school with 2 Ph.D's and a M.D. but has trouble with the most simple tasks of being a human being. Absolutely no common sense. Left her children to raise themselves because she "didn't have time" and cannot have a meaningful relationship with another human being - a very cold, arrogant person and a very lonely person.


I would say you are arguing against yourself, and arguing more along the lines that I have said above.

IQ does not make you better, it merely makes you different.  That your sister was different seems to be without question, but it does not make her better.

I would rather have common sense and 'people skills rather' than just a high IQ. It is why I declined my invitation to become a member of Mensa - the people I found there in 1962 were too overly impressed with themselves, poor socially and just plain boring with their astounding exhibitions of learning and their belief that their opinion was worth more than the common man.

That depends a lot on the ethos of local Mensa (and again, 1962 was a long time ago - I did not enter Mensa until 1992).  My own experience is that that kind of attitude seems to be more prevalent in Mensa US than Mensa UK (although the US is a large area, and it is unfair to paint all of Mensa US with the same brush).  My experience in the UK is that such people do exist, but they tend on the whole to get jumped on if they start making noises about the superiority of Mensans over non-Mensans.

Hell, I have seen brilliant people doing menial jobs and wizards at their profession.

One of the things about Mensa is that they are not all university professors (in fact, in the UK, I have met relatively few who were).  There are bus drivers, carpenters, lots of computer professionals, a fair smattering of teachers and civil servants, some unemployed, some company directors, some police officers.  It is, to me, the breadth of people within Mensa that is one of the things that make it interesting.

We are Human beings, not thinking machines.

Indeed - just as we are human beings, and not running machines; but that is not to say that we cannot enjoy running/thinking.

And to dismiss the opinion of Steven Hawking is the height of arrogance.

I would no more dismiss the opinion of Steven Hawking that I would dismiss the opinion of a local shopkeeper.  All I am saying is that in matters of psychology, Steven Hawking is no more qualified than a local shopkeeper.  If mentioning that makes me appear to be arrogant, then so be it.

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #20 on: 25/11/2007 22:46:42 »
i do not have a problem with mensa members (as such), just mensa.

through careful advertisements, ooh look who our members are, what's your i.q. and so on they have conned people in to thinking that to be the best of the best you have to be a member of mensa, and those that are, are the best of the best.

so many people place emphasis on what their i.q. is, like it's some kind of status symbol...it's all down to clever marketing, and gullible members of the public.

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #21 on: 25/11/2007 22:48:21 »
Quote
Your IQ score is 129!
 
You've got a very experiential way of learning and a strong mathematical mind and you have mastered the art and science of precision. That's what makes you a Precision Processor. For you, life is a series of equations.

Your brain is naturally predisposed to intense mathematical acuity, so it's second nature for you to cut to the heart of an issue, to discover quick solutions while others get bogged down in unnecessary details. This allows you to communicate a variety of ideas to other people, so don't keep it to yourself

The score is me but the strong mathematical mind part aint.

I always rush tests as i find them boring so i never achieve my true score.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2007 22:51:27 by ukmicky »

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Offline neilep

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #22 on: 25/11/2007 22:50:21 »
I failed my IQ test because I couldn't spell "IQ"
Men are the same as women, just inside out !

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #23 on: 25/11/2007 22:51:33 »
Your IQ score is 129!
 
You've got a very experiential way.......

are you sure that's not your horoscope?

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #24 on: 25/11/2007 22:52:14 »
I failed my IQ test because I couldn't spell "IQ"

it's easy, there are no "'s in IQ

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #25 on: 25/11/2007 23:05:52 »
i like this bit

Quote
you have mastered the art and science of precision
[;D] [;D]

Maybe thet know something i dont [:D]

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Offline ukmicky

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #26 on: 25/11/2007 23:06:29 »
Like how to spell they

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #27 on: 25/11/2007 23:09:05 »
Like how to spell they

I thought you were writing in code, that only those with an IQ above 127 would understand.

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #28 on: 25/11/2007 23:35:23 »
i do not have a problem with mensa members (as such), just mensa.

through careful advertisements, ooh look who our members are, what's your i.q. and so on they have conned people in to thinking that to be the best of the best you have to be a member of mensa, and those that are, are the best of the best.

so many people place emphasis on what their i.q. is, like it's some kind of status symbol...it's all down to clever marketing, and gullible members of the public.

Which ad are you talking about (not that I claim to know what ads Mensa currently runs)?

I suppose you can argue that all marketing tries to attract gullible members of the public, but while I agree that can put me off too, if you go too far, you'd never buy anything.

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Offline JimBob

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #29 on: 26/11/2007 00:13:37 »
i do not have a problem with mensa members (as such), just mensa.


I do have a problem with some members who I still know and see all the time, my step-sister being one of those.

Having a Latin name is the be-all and end-all. Too bad it means "cafeteria" in German and Dutch and is the Spanish term for "stupid female."

It is the concept of gathering with the premise that what "we" have in common is our mind, and excluding other people who are not "as gifted." Their motto, probably - Eschew Imbecility! (Dullardness is so gauche! Nevil, more wine, and don't spill it on the table cloth again or I will be looking for a new butler!)

I am part of the human race and suggest that this is the proper place for a human being, not an artificial society that is limited by some (better, higher, more impecable, elitist, etc.) criteria. Being special is the beginning of elitism and repression. It is just another "Master Race" looking for Lebensraum.

To measure or be proud of ones gifts is to deny that in some way, no matter how minor, every person on the face of this earth is special. I will defend this point to the death, too! If one cannot see this, they should lock them self up in their own little world and forget all about fitting in because no matter what you do, you will always be right in your own mind and rarely yield to another.  One of the most beautiful people I know is the daughter of a friend. She has Downs Syndrome. Yet she is very wise in her simplicity, always joyful and lives life more completely than anyone I have ever met. I want to see life as simply as she does and know I would be much more happy and GIFTED (yes, I said gifted) if that simplicity were incorporated into my life. (It is the endpoint of the search for "holiness = wholeness - both from the old High German root "hal".)

I doubt if she could qualify for Mensa. That is a devastating loss for Mensa members.
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline JimBob

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #30 on: 26/11/2007 00:16:18 »
Pardon me, perhaps I should have said "... whom I still know ..." I don't know and don't care
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #31 on: 26/11/2007 00:29:12 »
Pick any newspaper up and more often than not there will be a simple mensa test, ooh, why not take a proper test it tells you, then they want a few quid for the privilege. So it could be fair to say that it is a money making scam.

Like other things in life, a lot of people want or need status or some form of authority / power over another. This is where mensa says thank you kindly, and we let them get away with it. For too long and for a long time yet to come, people see an IQ level as something to aspire to and to be in awe of. Clever marketing, nothing more.

If anyone wants to join a club/forum well thats all well and good, but when they claim some kind of elite status i have to say hold your horses cowboy.

The thing with someone winning the Olympic 100 metres race, is that we are not told that to be great or considered to be great you have to be good at running. Yet mensa sets itself up as that and people make decisions based on that. This is why nobody should take a mensa test, keep your money and be happy that you know what you know.

If you use mensa to meet like minded people, like i said all well and good, but please tell it like it is. "having a high IQ is merely a measure of ones ability to do well at IQ tests"

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #32 on: 26/11/2007 00:44:20 »
here is something else that i think is sad.

I would like to see more forum members contribute to the science topics, either with questions or answers. I suspect that many may be put off, or afraid to look silly if their question is deem that way, or their attempt at an answer is not given the respect it deserves.

anyone willing to try and answer a question should be praised, just for trying. Take the QoTW topics, why do they get so little attention? They are open questions from people just like us, and any comment or attempt at an answer is more than the question poser possibly knows.

why is that? why do people not attempt to answer questions?

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #33 on: 26/11/2007 01:12:02 »
I do have a problem with some members who I still know and see all the time, my step-sister being one of those.

There may be one or two people (in or out of Mensa) whom I may have a problem with, but I rather regard that as an indication of my inadequacy rather than theirs.

I am part of the human race and suggest that this is the proper place for a human being, not an artificial society that is limited by some (better, higher, more impecable, elitist, etc.) criteria. Being special is the beginning of elitism and repression. It is just another "Master Race" looking for Lebensraum.

So would you regard a society of women, or a society such as for the blind, or the deaf, as being a "Master Race" looking for "Lebensraum"?

I suppose in our own way, we are all personally looking for "Lebensraum", but ofcourse, you were not talking about the literal meaning of the word, but with its implicit associations.

There is often a debate within Mensa whether one should admit in public to being in Mensa, and (at least for men - slightly different rules for women) it is considered more dangerous to include it on your CV than to leave it off (the risks of generating just this kind of hostility are too great, and as you say, really it does not say much pertinent).  Women sometimes like to mention if they are in Mensa simply because they feel it is a counterweight to their being regarded as a bimbo.

The reason I joined Mensa was nothing to do with proving my IQ (I don't even remember what my IQ was on the test, and I really don't care).  We had some friends of the family around some years ago, and they were trying to convince me to get out a bit more.  The man was a member of the freemasons, but I really could not see myself joining that, but their daughter was a member of Mensa, and that sounded interesting, so I applied for the test, and the rest is history.  Nothing egotistical, just a way of getting out and meeting people, and I have made some very good friends along the way.

I do realise that one's experience of Mensa is very dependent upon the local group one is exposed to; and I know many people who have said that the first group they encountered ware so offputting that they wanted nothing to do with them, but many years later, they found a different group, and found they fitted in totally.

If you choose to believe that because I am a member of Mensa, that I am one step away from trying to form a "Master Race", that has to be a judgement you will have to make for yourself (on the positive side, I have never had any children, and extremely unlikely I ever will, so I shall not be starting any race whatsoever - master or otherwise).

On the contrary, as I have said above, and have said to you in private, having a high IQ not only does not make me superior, in certain contexts can be a handicap.  It has its benefits, but at least as many disadvantages; and insofar as my relationship with Mensa is concerned, there is no conspiracy to take over the world, but at least as much it is a place where one's handicap is less important.  That is why I early baulked at referring to IQ as an ability - but rather simply suggested it was a different process of thinking, and it is a difference that I share with some other people.

One of the most beautiful people I know is the daughter of a friend. She has Downs Syndrome. Yet she is very wise in her simplicity, always joyful and lives life more completely than anyone I have ever met. I want to see life as simply as she does and know I would be much more happy and GIFTED (yes, I said gifted) if that simplicity were incorporated into my life. (It is the endpoint of the search for "holiness = wholeness - both from the old High German root "hal".)

I doubt if she could qualify for Mensa. That is a devastating loss for Mensa members.

I don't know why you have to shout that your friends daughter is gifted, as if I would doubt that in our own way, we are all gifted.

I know there is a formal term 'gifted', but I cannot say I like the term, because it does indicate that there are people who are not gifted.  We may all have different gifts, but that is not to say we are not gifted.

I am not sure why you think her absence from Mensa is a loss for Mensa.  If you are saying she is shunned by Mensans, then that would indeed be another matter.  No organisation can seek to be all things to all people, and Mensa seeks to address a particular constituency, without denigrating or compromising anyone who seeks a different constituency.  Nobody in Mensa assumes that Mensa and Mensans are all that is in their life, only that Mensa forms one part of it.

Certainly, if her parents were Mensans, then at least as far as UK policy is concerned, then she would be welcomed as a family member of a Mensan (as is an autistic son of a Mensan that I know).

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paul.fr

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #34 on: 26/11/2007 01:23:22 »
would it be presumptuous to suggest this be moved to chat?

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #35 on: 26/11/2007 01:28:30 »
Pick any newspaper up and more often than not there will be a simple mensa test, ooh, why not take a proper test it tells you, then they want a few quid for the privilege. So it could be fair to say that it is a money making scam.

Depends on what you mean by a money making scam?  A scam in whose favour?

Yes, I suppose it is a scam in my favour, since every time you take a home test, or a supervised test (you actually do not need either to enter Mensa - any recognised supervised IQ test will suffice), then more money goes into Mensa's coffers to provide services for people like me (although I still need to pay my subscriptions too).

The directors of Mensa are volunteers, and the company itself is a company limited by guarantee, so it does not distribute dividends.  The only income it makes is that used to provide services for its members (i.e. me, and others like me - but all that means is that our subscription is slightly less than it might otherwise be).  It is a not for profit company.


If you use mensa to meet like minded people, like i said all well and good, but please tell it like it is. "having a high IQ is merely a measure of ones ability to do well at IQ tests"

Where have I said the converse.  It is others who have accused me, and others like me, of either being stuck up prats, or worse, of trying to have evil designs on the world.

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #36 on: 26/11/2007 01:29:36 »
would it be presumptuous to suggest this be moved to chat?

I have no problem with that - I don't know if the original poster might prefer the thread split (if you can find a convenient point to do that).

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #37 on: 26/11/2007 01:34:44 »
here is something else that i think is sad.

I would like to see more forum members contribute to the science topics, either with questions or answers. I suspect that many may be put off, or afraid to look silly if their question is deem that way, or their attempt at an answer is not given the respect it deserves.

SquarishTriangle and myself did initially try to answer the question.  You may argue I should not have mentioned Mensa at all, or that I should not have mentioned my own score on that test - in neither case did I expect this to turn into an argument about whether Mensa was an evil organisation.

I only mentioned Mensa as an organisation that used IQ tests, and was not trying to make a sales pitch on the matter.

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Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #38 on: 26/11/2007 02:09:28 »
I failed my IQ test because I couldn't spell "IQ"

NO Neily!!! You did it wrong!!! It is "EYE QUE" or is that "I CUE" or is that "AYE Q"! 

OH dear... now look at what youv'e gone and done!!LOL LOL!


Its all in good fun.. This is the second one I have ever taken the other on here also..

LOL there should be no fuss or shame in taking it or having fun with it or using it as a

guide for your self or a goal... I agree that george only meant it as one of the places

that offer the test.. was not boasting or otherwise.. I have many aquaintences in the

program and have never seen them behave oddly or at least no worse then my crazy self..

we are all just people.. LOL This should be done for the fun of it if you choose if it

means more to you to do it to place yourself so be it.. Doesn't bother me ... but I

think Georges statement was misunderstood....

Anyway I took the test for fun and scored 124  I did however struggle with a few math

problems and had to sit with paper and pen to figure them out.  It was fun learning or

trying to do some of those things just like school again!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #39 on: 26/11/2007 02:23:42 »
Quote
Your IQ score is 129!
 
You've got a very experiential way of learning and a strong mathematical mind and you have mastered the art and science of precision. That's what makes you a Precision Processor. For you, life is a series of equations.

Your brain is naturally predisposed to intense mathematical acuity, so it's second nature for you to cut to the heart of an issue, to discover quick solutions while others get bogged down in unnecessary details. This allows you to communicate a variety of ideas to other people, so don't keep it to yourself

The score is me but the strong mathematical mind part aint.

I always rush tests as i find them boring so i never achieve my true score.

  Hey how did you get the written part.oh yeah you had to pay for it! DANG!

Hey I worked hard for that score and I am quite frankly not sure what it means cause I did not pay for the analysis of that score! LOL

Wait I found the free short analysis! LOL

Quote
Your IQ score is 124!
Word Warrior

You are equipped with a verbal arsenal that enables you to understand complex issues and communicate on a particularly high level, making you a Word Warrior. Your command of words is so powerful that you are also a terrific communicator -- able to articulate big ideas to just about anyone.

The power of words translates to fresh ideas off paper too, in both artistic and creative pursuits. This allows you to be a visionary -- to extrapolate and come up with a multitude of fresh ideas.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2007 02:27:23 by Karen W. »

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #40 on: 26/11/2007 02:46:47 »
I always rush tests as i find them boring so i never achieve my true score.

Ironically, I don't normally take these tests either.  They don't particularly interest me, and if I do well, and people know I am in Mensa, I risk looking like I am showing off, and if I do badly, then it looks even more embarrassing - so it is a lose/lose situation.

The only reason I took this test was to see if there was to see if it would better enable me to answer the original question.

Maybe, in the circumstances, I should have refrained from mentioning my score at the end of it (it probably served no purpose to do so).

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Offline elegantlywasted

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #41 on: 26/11/2007 03:01:10 »
To bring back the original question - or something close to it. How does the point system work??? For instance 100 is "normalized" but what is the difference between a 109 and 129? Or even a 135 and 139? How far of a gap do the numbers represent?
-Meg

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #42 on: 26/11/2007 03:20:31 »
To bring back the original question - or something close to it. How does the point system work??? For instance 100 is "normalized" but what is the difference between a 109 and 129? Or even a 135 and 139? How far of a gap do the numbers represent?

In the UK, Mensa use the Cattell-B test, and a culture fair test, and take the highest of the two scores.

I did a quick search on google for the Cattel-B test, and came up with the following discussion thread that seems mostly to be consistent with what I have heard elsewhere:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/archive/index.php/t-18992.html

The key points are that the Cattell-B test goes out of range after a score of about 160, and that the entry requirements for Mensa are at 148/149 (they mention 149, I thought I remembered 148, but I might be wrong).

What is also mentioned on the thread (it seems reasonable, although I had not heard it before) is that most tests that are optimised for average IQ, go out of range before they reach the IQ range that Mensa is looking at, and in all likelihood, the Mensa test might be unreliable when working around the 100 IQ range.

The numbers for the culture fair test would be different, but I don't know what they are.

If I recall correctly, I did get a test score of 138 on my Mensa home test, and that was considered better than the score I got on the official supervised test (on which I must have got at least 148 to be allowed into Mensa - although I don't know exactly what score I did get).

There is some discussion on the thread as to what constitutes 1 Standard Deviation on the Cattell B test, and they seem to be throwing around figures like +/- 15, or +/- 25.  The +/- 25 does seem far too wide for me, and I would happily go with +/- 15, but I could not swear to it.

Ofcourse, for any other tests, the Standard Deviation number would be totally different.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2007 03:44:57 by another_someone »

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #43 on: 26/11/2007 03:34:22 »
From the British Mensa site

http://www.mensa.org.uk/iq-levels/
Quote
British Mensa uses two main tests to identify people's IQ scores, the Cattell III B and the Cattell Culture Fair III A.

A score which puts you in the top two per cent of the population on either of these papers would qualify you for membership of Mensa.

An adult can only get a maximum IQ of 161 on the Cattell III B test.

As different IQ tests were developed, each was given its own scoring system. Therefore, an IQ of 150 is a meaningless claim unless you know the actual test which was used. In order to compare one IQ test against another, the scores are converted to 'percentiles', i.e. where a person's score falls in comparison to the rest of the population by percentage. Mensa offers membership to anyone whose IQ score places them within the top two per cent of the population, no matter which approved test was used.

A top 2% mark in any of these frequently used tests below qualifies you for entry to Mensa. The minimum test mark to get into Mensa is:

  • Cattell III B - 148
  • Culture Fair - 132
  • Ravens Advanced Matrices - 135
  • Ravens Standard Matrices - 131
  • Wechsler Scales - 132

The BBC Test The Nation IQ quiz is not a recognised IQ test and so Mensa is unable to accept people for membership on the basis of their Test The Nation scores. However, achievement of a score of 120 or more in this IQ quiz would suggest you might like to have a go at a full Mensa IQ test.

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Offline lightarrow

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #44 on: 26/11/2007 17:19:16 »
I've done the test but unfortunately I couldn't understand some questions, for examples:

1.NAMYERG is the anagram of what? (I wrote "city" but don't know)
2.A cinic knows the price of everything and the________of nothing (I put "emotion" but maybe it was "value"?)
3.The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never_____ (I put "simple")

What would you answer to those?

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #45 on: 26/11/2007 18:15:54 »
I've done the test but unfortunately I couldn't understand some questions, for examples:

That was one of my criticisms of the test - it was too culturally biased in some areas.

1.NAMYERG is the anagram of what? (I wrote "city" but don't know)

I am terrible at anagrams, so I guessed, but quite possibly wrongly, a city.

2.A cinic knows the price of everything and the________of nothing (I put "emotion" but maybe it was "value"?)

The correct answer is 'value' - it is a quote from Oscar Wilde, although I do not recollect the context - I'm sure it could be googled.

3.The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never_____ (I put "simple")

I believe it is 'simple' - although again, I cannot recollect who said it, or in what context.

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Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #46 on: 26/11/2007 18:20:05 »
The answer was germany and it was country, I believe!
then value and simple ..Yep George those two were right!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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another_someone

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #47 on: 26/11/2007 18:52:07 »
I have now googled - and I could kick myself - the second quote is also Oscar Wilde - the first from Lady Windermere's Fan, and the second from The Importance of being Ernest - the latter being my favourite of the Oscar Wilde plays (although of late I have somewhat tired of Oscar Wilde).

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Offline Karen W.

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #48 on: 26/11/2007 20:10:41 »
I did not know from whence they originated, but I had heard them before on a regular basis over the years!

"Life is not measured by the number of Breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: What is IQ? What does it mean?
« Reply #49 on: 26/11/2007 20:19:03 »
paul, why the apostrophe? Nothing's been missed out and it's nothing's possessive.
Anyway.

Just to cover the original question about "what is it marked out of".
The original idea of this test was to identify children who were learning less than most of their classmates so they could receive more schooling. To do this it only needs to apply to kids.
What they did was get a whole lot of questions and ask a whole bunch of children to answer them. Then they looked at the childrens' test results and their ages.

For example the average score for 12 year olds might have been 70 out of 100.
A child, of whatever age, who got 70 out of 100 would then be said to have a "mental age" of 12- essentially he would be as bright as a typical 12 year old.
Similarly, typical nine year olds might average only 50 out of 100. (the numbers are made up - just as illustrations)
A nine year old who got a score of 70 would look as well educateed (or, more accurately sa good at answering these questions as a 12 year old.
The next thin they did was calculate an "inteligence quotient" by expressing the mental age as a percentage of the real (chronological) age.
So the nine year old who got 70% on this test would have an IQ of 100 * 12/9 or 133
A 12 year old with the same score would get assigned an IQ of 100
A 12 year old who got 50% would have an IQ of 100 * 9 / 12 ie 75.

They looked at lots of these "IQ" scores and found a couple of things . First they were roughly normaly distributed with a standard deviation of about 12 (the mean would have been 100 by deffinition)

Secondly they found that, unless something really odd happened in a child's schooling, they tended to maintain the same IQ throughout school.

If you rely on that staying the same through into adulthood (which is a dodgy assumption) then you can "measure" the IQ of adults by asking lots of people lots os questions, calling anyone who gets the average number right an IQ of 100 and sorting the rest of the population by how far above or below the average number of right answers they got, compared to the population as a whole.
As far as I can tell this is pointless. The idea of helping those schoolchildren who are falling behind makes sense (though I don't know how well it worked); the use of IQ in adults is strange.

To really study this you need to know quite a bit about statistics or, as Sir Cyril Burt did, you can make it up and, quite possibly get a Knighthood out of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Burt
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