Usefulness of Glyconutrients

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #150 on: 12/01/2006 17:05:14 »
Cathy your reply to Duane was rather terse, and even a little childish. Always better to discredit the argument rather than risking ones own credibility by trying to discredit and attack the person you are trying to communicate with.

I suspect you may have got a little of those sugars too close to an exposed nerve in your mouth.

Duane does present a very good argument against shelling out a small fortune for a few spoons of sugar. And as he has no vested interest in earning money from myself and others, I find myself swayed in favour of his low budget approach and applaud his calm and crystal clear arguments.

Still waiting for some concrete evidence from your side of the fence.

Andrew



"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #151 on: 12/01/2006 21:11:55 »
Hello everyone,
 
Dr. Reg McDaniel will be lecturing on the effect that glyconutrients have on our own stem cells. This is a lecture and very informative. All are welcomed.
I will email you if you would like more details.
K.C.

Dr. Reg McDaniel
Graduate, University of Texas Southwestern Medical School
Former Director of Pathology and Director of Medical Education
Dallas-Ft. Worth Medical Center.

Meet and Hear Dr. McDaniel in Person
During the first week of Feb.
North of San Francisco, CA

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #152 on: 13/01/2006 13:30:35 »
Hi Andrew,
I haven't been impressed with the way you have carried yourself here in this forum also.
I have expressed my honest opinion, and expressing my concerns. I am sorry if I left room to be misinterpreted.
Your comment: "Still waiting for some concrete evidence from your side of the fence".
Though I am not a scientist, doctor or have a degree in biology, I do educate myself. I will refer you to the top of this page to the link and information I provided. (This is one of the doctors that Duane attempted(?) to discredit)
If you are serious and not trying to cause a debate then email me and I will pass on the info that you ask for.
Please be specific with your questions and I will be specific with my answers.
KC

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 13/01/2006 18:38:12 by Kittycat »

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Offline rdrosenkranz

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #153 on: 16/01/2006 06:22:30 »
Hi,
Have been doing some personal research on glyconutrients and am trying to get both the pro's and con's to the science of it and the marketing of it.  I just moved back to the US after leaving overseas for the last 14 years in developing countries, I am a health care professional and teacher.  My exposure in developing countries and their health care systems, natural and organic substances that they use medicinally with some amazing results have left a lasting impression toward more natural medicinal options than synthetic.  It is interesting to note that in developing countries, chronic auto immune issues/disorders (outside of HIV/AIDS)were minimal in comparison to 1st world countries (although they are starting to see great increases in chronic auto immune disorders).

All that being said, what I have learned from working in all these countries is that an individual's chemistry has a lot to do with what the body's ability to absorb the nutrients that it needs.  From looking at what you all have been discussing, the one thought I would like to share is that what we all need to keep in mind.  Every individual body that is in some sort of dysfunction is basically in chemical "warfare" within itself.  Different types of bodies need different things with respect to what it needs to regain balance and heal itself.  While it may be true that some of the science of glyconutrients has been "embellished"  by particular companies for the purposes of financial gain, the fact of the matter is that it has been helpful for some where conventional medicine was not. And although I personally do not agree with how the glyconutrients are packaged and sold. It appears that these companies got in such a hurry to get these to marketing that they did not put much thought into what was the best way for unhealthy bodies to receive  one of more of the glyconutrients.  These companies basically packaged them like multi-vitamins are, which are effective with healthy bodies. But not so with unhealthy ones.  There is alot we still do not know about the body and nutrition for that matter.  Try as we may, medicine is NOT an exact science when it comes to diagnosing chronic conditions.


The hardest part about all of this is that medicine, nutrient and nutritional supplements in the US are no longer an opportunity to heal people but have become instead opportunistic.

OK, all that being said, I would like to see some of the pioneering research that was done in finding glyconutrients and identifying what role they play in the body.  I have a feeling that although they are probably not that effective or needed in healthy bodies, I think that in dysfunctional bodies they may be of some help.  I would like to dialogue further.  
Thanks,
rdr

 

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Offline surveydan77

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #154 on: 16/01/2006 17:36:02 »
Hey gang.  I just wanted to let all the skeptics know that, from the marketing side of it, mannatech has proven to be profitable for me.  My dad calls me up one day and tells me basically that "I need to get in."  He lets me know of the $1200 up front cost and assures me that if I don't make my money back within a month, he'll pay me back.  My dad has always had a knack for making money, so with 0 risk, and a chance at profit.... my only option was to say "yes."  Its been 4 months now, and I have since signed up my wife as well.  I have made a profit of $2000 thus far.  Not a ton, but still profit... and it can only increase from here.  On a side note, the glyconutrients seem to be working for my wife.  She has had beginning stages of arthritis in her wrists and other joints, and is reporting that all pain and stiffness is gone.  I have not noticed anything special other than a reduced appetite, although I never had any noticable pains before so who knows what's going on under the surface.  Could it all just be in her mind?  Of course... only time will tell if this is truly all its cracked up to be, but as for me... my skepticism is gone.  And don't worry if you're skeptical now, because we all are at some point.  I mean, come on... a miracle "sugar" that heals all ailments???  Just remember, everybody thought the Earth was flat until all of the sudden.... it wasn't!
 

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #155 on: 16/01/2006 19:47:49 »
The Earth is still flat, just depends on where your viewpoint is.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts about this pyramid scheme. What's it like in a cup of tea?

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
K.I.S. "Keep it simple!"
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline surveydan77

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #156 on: 16/01/2006 21:08:34 »
Andrew, the earth is not flat... or maybe it is over in England.
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #157 on: 17/01/2006 07:45:28 »
Hey SD77,

If you enjoy the benefits your wife is getting, but really love those profits, use the money you are getting to combine your own glyconutrients (according to the recipe above, at about 1/4 of the cost of Ambrotose), and then you can pocket the rest of the money you were paying Mannatech.  (You can even use some of your old Ambrotose canisters).  Same results, same ingredients, same quality, and EVEN MORE MONEY FOR YOU!  But don't forget to keep selling everyone else on taking the Brand Name stuff so your profits will keep rolling in.  

Capitalism...you gotta love it.

Duane
 

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #158 on: 17/01/2006 16:40:44 »
Hi Dan,

Welcome to this forum. I can see that our welcoming committee has greeted you already with arms opened wide.
Do you suppose it would be better not to be involved in this type of business and therefore put more money into the pockets of the pharmaceutical industry?
Or better yet, spending hours and hours on forum like these displaying your intellectual knowledge at other's expense.

I am glad to hear of your wife's progress and to see that you are seeing the financial benefit to the business side. In my case I am so wealthy that I just give my time and glyconutrients away for free! (Or not). Please keep us informed and yes, the welcoming committee always needs the last word. Do you think glyconutrients will help genetic conditions?

Take care, KC



His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness

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Offline dsaitch

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #159 on: 19/01/2006 14:13:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by momof4

For what it's worth,I thought I would add my personal story to the list of arguments for and against glyconutrients.  I am very grateful that a friend introduced me to glyconutrients just 5 months ago.  For over 20 years I have suffered from chronic neck and lower back pain.  Two of my children have suffered from "full blown" asthma since early infancy.  My youngest child had severe eczema to the point of bleeding.  Winter months were a nightmare with bottles of oxygen lined up in my garage.  I am happy to say that in the last few months I have been pain free.  There has only been 1 asthma attack (and I believe this was due to the fact that we were without product for over 2 weeks) and no sign of eczema.  It is so easy to get caught up in the arguments, as I have been reading in these pages, but to me the only proof I need is the healthy kids living in my home.  I wouldn't go a day without them and as a single Mom of 4, that is saying a lot.

 

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Offline Valerie Jo

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #160 on: 19/01/2006 18:58:32 »
I READ THROUGH MANY OF THE ENTRIES LISTED ON THIS SITE BECAUSE A FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS HAVING PROBLEMS WITH HER HEALTH FOUND THIS SITE AFTER I HAD SUGGESTED SHE TRY GLYCONUTRIENTS. I FIND THE ENTRIES BOTH INTERESTING AND CONFUSING. I'M NOT A SCIENTIST NOR A DOCTOR SO I WONT EVEN BEGIN TO TRY TO DISPUTE ANYTHING THAT IS SAID, THOUGH IT DOES SEEM TO ME THAT BOTH THE BIOLOGIST AND THE DOCTOR SEEM TO DISPUTE ONE ANOTHER AND EVEN THEMSELVES AS YOU READ THROUGH THE ENTRIES. ONE MINUTE THEY ARE SAYING GLYCONUTRIENTS ARE OF NO VALUE AND THEN TELLING US HOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE MIXED THEIR OWN HAVE HAD GOOD HEALTH BENEFITS FROM USING THEM? I'M CONFUSED, IS IT THEIR DEDUCTION THAT ONLY THE HOME MIXED GLYCONUTRIENTS ARE OF VALUE TO YOUR HEALTH?

HERE IS WHAT I WILL SHARE WITH YOU, AS IT IS MY PERSONAL LIFE EXPERIENCE SO FAR. ONE THAT HAS LITERALLY CHANGED MY LIFE, AND THE LIVES OF MY TEENAGE CHILDREN. OF COURSE SOME OF YOU MAY WANT TO STOP READING RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I DON'T MIX MY OWN PRODUCT, I DO GET IT FROM THE COMPANY THAT IS CHARGING TOO MUCH ACCORDING TO DUANE. BUT SINCE I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY HAD TO PAY FOR MY PRODUCT SINCE THE SECOND MONTH, DUE TO THAT MARKETING PLAN DUANE SO DISLIKES, I PREFER TO GET MINE ALREADY MIXED IN A JAR. AND AS KC MENTIONED, I LIKE THE IDEA THAT THE PRODUCT HAS BEEN TESTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT HAS THE ACTUAL "ACTIVE" INGREDIENTS IN IT.

I HAVE SUFFERD WITH THE SYMPTOMS OF LUPUS FOR QUITE SOME TIME. I HAVE A TENDANCY TO SAY IT THIS WAY BECAUSE AT THE LAST BLOOD TEST I HAD, I STILL DIDN’T TEST POSITIVE FOR ANA’S, ANTINUCLEAR ANTIBODIES IN MY BLOOD THAT ARE USED AS THE DIFINITIVE PROOF OF LUPUS, THUS THE COMMENT THAT I SUFFER FROM LUPUS LIKE SYMPTOMS.

MY PROBLEMS STARTED SHORTLY AFTER THE BIRTH OF MY FIRST CHILD NEARLY 19 YRS AGO, AT LEAST THAT'S WHEN I FIRST NOTICED IT. LOOKING BACK ON IT THERE WERE SOME SYMPTOMS THAT I’VE HAD SINCE CHILDHOOD, SUCH AS BEING ANEMIC.

IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE BIRTH OF MY SON, MY HAIR STARTED FALLING OUT IN GREAT GOBS AS IF I WAS HAVING CHEMO THERAPY. MY OB-GYN DOCTOR TOLD ME THAT SOMETIMES THE CHANGE IN YOUR HORMONES FROM GIVING BIRTH WILL CAUSE THIS AND THAT IF IT DIDN’T STOP IN 3 TO 6 MONTHS HE WOULD REFER ME TO A DERMITOLOGIST TO HAVE IT CHECKED OUT. SINCE I WAS PREGNANT WITH MY SECOND CHILD WITHIN 4 MONTHS, I JUST FIGURED MY HORMONES WERE STILL OUT OF WACK AND IGNORED THE WHOLE SITUATION. I’VE ALWAYS HAD REALLY THICK, FAST GROWING HAIR, SO AT LEAST I WASN’T GOING BALD, AND AT THAT POINT HAD OTHER THINGS TO OCCUPY MY MIND AND TIME, IT’S CALLED A NEW BORN, AND MINE HAPPENED TO BE COLICKY, FUNNY HOW NO ONE THOUGHT TO TELL ME THAT WHAT I ATE WOULD HAVE AN EFFECT ON MY NURSING INFANT.

NEXT I STARTED HAVING UNEXPLAINED SWELLING AND BREAKING OUT IN DISCOID ERUPTIONS (LIKE HAVING HIVES, ONLY THE PUMPS WERE CONCAVE IN THE MIDDLE) THEY WOULD START OUT THE SIZE OF A PENCIL ERASER AND ABSOLUTELY CIRCULAR, THEY WOULD SPREAD ACROSS MY SKIN, SOMETIMES GETTING AS BIG AROUND AS A GRAPEFRUIT. THE ERUPTIONS ITCHED, BUT IF YOU SCRATCHED THEM THEY WOULD HURT, AND OFTEN AS THEY GOT REALLY LARGE THEY WOULD TURN BLACK AND BLUE BEFORE FADING AWAY.

THEN CAME THE JOINT PAIN… I HAD BEEN IN A MOTOR CYCLE ACCIDENT WHEN I WAS 19 AND HAD SUFFERED ON AND OFF WITH BACK PAIN EVER SINCE. SO WHEN I FIRST STARTED HAVING PAIN IN THE JOINTS OF MY LEGS, ANKLES AND HIPS I JUST FIGURED IT WAS ALL RELATED TO THE BACK PROBLEMS. BUT CHIROPRACTIC HAD ALWAYS HELPED WITH MY BACK PAINS BEFORE AND AS TIME WENT ON THE PAIN GOT WORSE AND SEEMED TO BE IN EVERY JOINT OF MY BODY AND CHIROPRACTIC DIDN’T RELIEVE THIS PAIN. THE PAIN EVERY NIGHT JUST FROM SLEEPING, FELT LIKE EVERY JOINT IN MY BODY, EACH & EVERY VERTEBRAE ACHED, IT TOOK AN HOUR OR SO OF VERY PAINFUL MOVING AROUND EACH MORNING TO GET BACK TO NORMAL.

SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY I STARTED GETTING RASHES INSTEAD OF SUNBURN WHEN I WAS OUT IN THE SUN, AND IF I WENT OUT IN THE SUN FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME (SOMETIMES ONLY 10 TO 15 MINUTES) I WOULD HAVE PAIN IN MY FEET, ANKLES, KNEES AND HIPS SO BAD I COULD HARDLY BEAR TO WALK.

I WOULD WAKE UP MANY MORNINGS WITH MY FACE AND EYES SO PUFFY I LOOKED LIKE AN ORIENTAL VERSION OF THE PILSBURY DOUGH BOY; MY CHIROPRACTOR FELT THIS WAS PROBABLY DUE TO MY KIDNEYS HAVING PROBLEMS SINCE MY BACK ON BOTH SIDES WOULD BE KILLING ME.  I WOULD ALSO HAVE TO GET UP DURING THE NIGHT TO URINATE 2 OR 3, SOMETIMES EVEN 4 TIMES.

MY CHEEKS WOULD FLUSH RED & HOT, AT ODD TIMES FOR NO APPEARANT REASON AND I HAD PROBLEMS WITH SORE AND/OR SWOLLEN GLANDS IN MY NECK, I ENDED UP HAVING SURGERY FOR A “COLD NODE” OR CYST ON MY THYROID IN 1991 AND WAS LEFT WITH ONLY HALF MY THYROID BUT NORMAL BLOOD LEVELS WHEN TESTED.

I HAD MIGRAINES WITH FLASHING LIGHTS AND FLOATERS IN MY EYES, THESE WERE SO BAD THAT WHEN I FELT THEM COMING ON I HAD TO MAKE A RUN FOR HOME BECAUSE MY EYES WOULD BECOME SO LIGHT SENSITIVE I COULDN’T DRIVE, IF IT GOT TOO FAR INTO THE PROCESS.

I DEVELOPED PROBLEMS WITH MY EYES… AN INFLAMATION OF THE INNER EYE THE FIRST TIME THAT TOOK 6 MONTHS TO CLEAR UP, THEN THE SCLERA AND THEN THE EYE LID ITSELF. LET ME TELL YOU THAT GETTING A STEROID SHOT IN THE EYEBALL IS NO FUN.

I HAVE ECZEMA ON MY SCALP AND FACE AND THE ITCHING USED TO DRIVE ME NUTS, ESPECIALLY WHENEVER I WAS UNDER A LOT OF STRESS; NOT TO MENTION THE INCONVENIENCE OF LIVING IN A PERPETUAL SNOW STORM FROM THE FLAKING.

THEN THERE WERE THE NIGHTS WHERE I WOKE UP CHOKING & FEELING LIKE I WAS DROWNING FROM WHAT FELT LIKE WATER IN MY LUNGS, THOSE WERE REALLY EXCITING TIMES IN MY LIFE. ADD TO THAT GETTING THE GOOD OLD SOUTHEAST TEXAS CREEPING CRUD (COLD AND SINUS PROBLEMS THAT HANG ON FOR WEEKS OR EVEN MONTHS) A COUPLE OF TIMES A YEAR AND HAVING THAT TURN INTO BRONCHITIS AT LEAST EVERY OTHER YEAR AND EVEN PNEUMONIA ONCE AND LIFE IS NEVER DULL.

THE SUDDEN, UNEXPLAINED FATIGUE WAS THE REAL LIFE CHANGER, IMMAGINE BEING PERFECTLY FINE ONE MINUTE, AND YOU CAN'T KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN THE NEXT. THAT MAKES FOR REALLY EXCITING ROAD TRIPS! YOU CAN’T DRIVE A CAR WHEN YOU CAN’T KEEP YOUR EYES OPEN. MY CHILDREN AND I TOOK A VACATION TRIP TO NEW ORLEANS ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO. THE TRIP THERE AND THE RIVER CRUISE WERE GREAT, UNFORTUNATELY THE NORMALLY 6 HOUR DRIVE HOME TURNED INTO 19 HOURS DUE TO THIS TYPE OF FATIGUE AND THAT PUT A REALLY BAD SPIN ON THE WHOLE TRIP. THERE WERE TIMES I WONDERED IF I COULD MAKE IT THE 20-MILES FROM WORK TO HOME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY BECAUSE ONE OF THESE BOUTS WOULD HIT ME.

AS IF LIFE WAS NOT HARD ENOUGH I STARTED GETTING BOUTS OF DEPRESSION THAT WOULD LAST FOR WEEKS AT A TIME, THE KIND WHERE YOU JUST CAN’T EVEN CONVINCE YOURSELF TO GET OUT OF BED. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A STRONG WILLED PERSON, THE KIND WHO PICKS THEMSELVES UP BY THE BOOT STRAPS AND JUST KEEPS GOING. BUT I TRULY COULDN’T SEEM TO MAKE MYSELF GET OUT OF BED ON SOME OF THOSE DAYS. SINCE I’M A SINGLE MOTHER AND AM SELF EMPLOYED, THIS WAS REALLY DIFFICULT ON MY FAMILY AND OUR INCOME.

THE LAST SYMPTOM THAT I DEVELOPED WAS NUMBNESS IN MY THUMBS AND THE FIRST 3 FINGERS OF BOTH HANDS. NOW I HAVE SUFFERED FROM CARPEL TUNNEL IN THE PAST, AND CHIROPRACTIC HELPED ME TO AVOID SURGERY FOR YEARS, BUT THIS WAS DIFFERENT AND VERY SCARRY WHEN IT STARTED LASTING LONGER AND LONGER. AND NO MATTER HOW MANY ADJUSTMENTS I GOT, IT DIDN'T SEEM TO CHANGE THE SEVERITY OR FREQUENCY OF THIS PROBLEM. MY WORK AND LIVELYHOOD REQUIRED TYPING, YOU CAN’T TYPE WHEN YOU HAVE NO FEELING IN YOUR FINGERS! IN FACT IT'S DIFFICULT TO DO MOST ANYTHING THAT REQUIRES DEXTERATY, INCLUDING SIMPLY GETTING DRESSED.

I TELL YOU ALL OF THIS SO THAT YOU CAN TRY TO IMAGINE WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN MY LIFE THE PAST 19 YEARS. THE GOOD NEWS/BAD NEWS WAS THAT LUPUS SYMPTOMS CAME AND WENT, SO EVEN THOUGH THINGS GOT WORSE OVER TIME AND HAPPENED MORE FREQUENTLY, AT LEAST IT WASN’T EVERYTHING AT ONE TIME, DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

THE NORMAL THERAPY FOR LUPUS IS STEROID TREATMENT TO RELEIVE THE SYMPTOMS, BUT THIS DOESN’T GET RID OF THE LUPUS AND HAS IT’S OWN SIDE AFFECTS, WHICH I DIDN’T CARE TO EXPERIENCE. WE ALL KNOW THAT STEROIDS AREN’T GOOD FOR A HEALTHY BODY, SO WHY WOULD I WANT TO PUT THEM INTO A SICK ONE? JUST THE TOPICAL THAT I HAD TO USE ON MY EYES HAD CAUSED ME TO LOSE A GREAT DEAL OF MY VISSION, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING UNUSUAL THAT HAPPENED ONLY TO ME, IT SAYS RIGHT THERE ON THE CONTAINER THAT EXTENDED USE WILL CAUSE BLINDNESS. WHEN I DISCUSSED THIS WITH MY OPTHAMOLOGIST/EYE SURGEON AND TOLD HIM I WANTED OFF THE STEROIDS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, HE JUST GOT ANGRY WITH ME AND TOLD ME I COULD GO BLIND FROM THE INFLAMATION OR I COULD GO BLIND FROM THE STEROIDS. I TOLD HIM MY CHOICE WAS NOT TO GO BLIND AT ALL, BUT THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF THE OPTIONS FOR HIM.

I SEARCHED FOR A DIFFERENT WAY TO GET HEALTHY, MY CHIROPRACTOR AND I DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITY OF VITAMIN AND NUTRITIONAL THERAPY, WHICH I STARTED. AND THEN I WAS FORTUNATE TO DISCOVER WELLNESS FILTERED WATER. WHICH UP TO THIS POINT MADE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IN HOW I FELT.

THROUGH MY RELATIONSHIP WITH WELLNESS FILTERS I WAS INTRODUCED TO GLYCONUTRIENT AND PHYTONUTRIENT PRODUCTS. I ADMIT THAT AFTER THE FIRST 4 TO 5 WEEKS I ACTUALLY GOT WORSE INSTEAD OF BETTER, I FIGURED THAT WAS PROBABLY MY BODY GETTING RID OF THE TOXINS, SO I KEPT TAKING THE PRODUCTS. BY WEEKS 6 AND 7 I STARTED FEELING BETTER AND NOW, A LITTLE OVER A YEAR LATER I HAVE GOTTEN RELIEF FROM CLOSE TO 95% OF MY SYMPTOMS.

A GREAT SIDE EFFECT THAT I HADN’T PLANNED ON WAS THAT I HAVE HAD A RATHER LARGE LUMP OF FIBROCYSTIC TISSUE, ABOUT 1 INCH BY 3 INCHES, IN MY BREAST SINCE I WAS 19 YEARS OLD AND SOMEWHERE AROUND MONTH 5 OR 6 IT JUST DISAPPEARED.(I'M 51 NOW, BY THE WAY, SO I'VE HAD THAT LUMP A LONG TIME. THE GOOD NEWS IS, IT NEVER GOT ANY BIGGER, IT WAS THAT SIZE WHEN THE OB-GYN DOCTOR FOUND IT AT 19 YEARS OF AGE.)

I STARTED MY TEENAGE CHILDREN ON THE PRODUCTS IN JANUARY A YEAR AGO, AFTER ABOUT SIX MONTHS, MY SON WHO HAS SUFFERED FROM ALERGIES FROM BIRTH REALIZED THAT HE HAD NOT HAD ANY MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH ALLERGIES FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS. (BY THE WAY, CHIROPRACTIC WORKED MIRACLES ON HIS ALLERGIES FROM ABOUT AGE 5. IT STOPPED ALL THE ASTHMA ATTACKS AND INFECTIONS, BUT NEVER SEEMED TO TOTALLY GET RID OF THE RUNNY NOSE, CONGESTION AND PURPLE UNDER EYES AT CERTAIN TIMES OF THE YEAR)

MY TEENAGE DAUGHTER HAS BEEN USING SOME OF THE GLYCONUTRIENT WEIGHT LOSS PRODUCTS AS WELL AS THE OPTIMAL HEALTH PROGRAM AND HAS MANAGED TO LOSE 50 POUNDS, MAKING A TOTAL OF LOSS OF 60 POUNDS SINCE OCTOBER OF 2004. SHE ALSO LOVES THE ENDICRINE SUPPORT PRODUCTS THAT HAVE GIVEN HER RELIEF FROM PMS AND MENSTRAL PROBLEMS. AND SHE FEELS IT IS EASIER TO FOCUS IN SCHOOL SINCE SHE STARTED TAKING THE GLYCO AND PHYTO NUTRIENTS. (HER GRADES CERTAINLY SEEM TO CONFIRM THIS.)

EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THAT GLYCO AND PHYTO NUTRIENTS DON’T TREAT, CURE OR MITIGATE DISEASE IT SURE IS NICE TO HAVE A BODY THAT SEEMS TO OPERATE AT A HIGHER LEVEL OF HEALTH WHEN IT HAS THEM. I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE LUPUS, MS, KIDNEY FAILURE, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE,FIBROMYALGIA AND OTHER PROBLEMS THAT HAVE EXPERIENCED RELIEF FROM THEIR SYMPTOMS AS WELL (AND BETTER BLOOD LEVELS, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE IT TESTED ON A REGULAR BASIS). I'M SO GLAD THAT MY BODY SEEMS TO "THINK" THESE PRODUCTS ARE DOING SOME GOOD, BECAUSE I HAVE USED A LOT OF DIFFERENT BRANDS AND TYPES OF NUTRITIONAL PRODUCTS OVER THE YEARS, FROM MY CHIROPRACTOR'S OFFICE, THE HEALTH FOOD STORE AND FROM OTHER NETWORK MARKETING COMPANIES, NOTHING HAS EVER HAD THIS EFFECT ON MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS, UNLESS THEY CAN PROVE THAT IT IS DAMAGING MY HEALTH, WHICH I ADMIT WOULD BE HARD TO PROVE TO ME AT THIS POINT. I AM GOING TO MAKE THESE PRODUCTS A PART OF MY FAMILY'S HEALTH REGIME FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES BECAUSE WE JUST PLAIN FEEL BETTER WHEN WE HAVE THEM IN OUR DIET. I SUGGEST THAT YOU DO WHAT DR. REG McDANIEL SAYS, JUST OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND TRY THEM FOR 3 OR 4 MONTHS, THEN YOU WILL KNOW FOR YOURSELF. THAT'S WHAT I DID, AND IF THIS IS SOME KIND OF PLACEBO EFFECT, THEN THANK GOD FOR THAT, I'M KEEPING THIS GREAT HEALTH.

YOU CAN MIX YOUR OWN OR GET ON THE "FUNDED WELLNESS FOR LIFE" PROGRAM LIKE I DID, BUT JUST TRY THE GLYCO AND PHYTO NUTRIENTS, SEE IF THEY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR HEALTH.




Valerie Jo from Houston
Valerie Jo from Houston

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Offline surveydan77

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #161 on: 19/01/2006 21:51:18 »
Kitty, thanks for the welcome :)  I'm used to dealing with ignorance and conflict enthusiasts.  The truth of the matter is that there will always be people who, because they can't understand the way something works, yell at those who do.  It doesn't bother me really, because at the end of the day... I'm the one getting the mannatech paychecks (just got two today by the way) and living the healthier life! ;)  Congrats on your wealth, and best of luck to you.
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #162 on: 21/01/2006 16:39:39 »
Many associates still misinterpret my posts.  I haven't said that glyconutrients don't work, just that Mannatech's "8 essential sugar" hypothesis is bogus marketing material.  That doesn't mean they aren't beneficial.  

Are their alternate explanations with scientific support?  Yes.

SYNOPSIS:  ONE WAY THESE SUBSTANCES WORK IN SO MANY HEALTH PROBLEMS IS BY INCREASING PRODUCTION OF SHORT-CHAIN FATTY ACIDS (SCFA) IN YOUR INTESTINE.  SCFA's ARE ABSORBED FROM THE INTESTINES, AND CAN EFFECT THE WHOLE BODY.

I have shown previously that research has shown that the majority of these substances are converted by microorganisms into short-chain fatty acids, such as butryate (which is NOT a sugar).  This is one of the ways glyconutrients have their effects.  Unlike sugars, SCFA's are not produced by your body, but must be acquired by production of them via bacteria in your colon.

Butyrate is the primary energy source for the colon, and is potently anti-inflammatory, and has been shown to actually convert colon cancer cells (and other cancer cells) into normal cells, as well as have many other beneficial effects.  Variations of butyric acid are being studied for use in cancer and other conditions.

Recently, a group wondered if soluble fiber in the diet would effect renal (kidney) disease by increasing circulating amounts of butyrate.  So they gave Gum Arabic (sound familiar, it is also known as Gum Acacia, and is really cheap) to human volunteers for 8 weeks.  At the end of 8 weeks they found the levels of circulating butyrate to have doubled.  In vitro, they found butyrate had beneficial effects on generation of certain cytokines which effect the kidney in renal diseases.  Showing a mechanism of how glyconutrients can effect renal disease without the glyconutrients ever getting to the kidney themselves.

Matsumoto N, Riley S, Fraser D, Al-Assaf S, Ishimura E, Wolever T, Phillips GO, Phillips AO.  Butyrate modulates TGF-beta1 generation and function: Potential renal benefit for Acacia(sen) SUPERGUMtrade mark (gum arabic)?
Kidney Int. 2006 Feb;69(2):257-65.

Noting that dietary supplementation with Gum Arabic in this study showed a doubling of circulating butyrate, it is interesting what other things butyrate is being studied to help.  Such as: (with representative references)

Types of neurodegenerative disease (1)
Cancers (2)
Increases production the antimicrobial protein "cathelicidin"(3)
Inflammation (4)
Increases CXCR4 in bone marrow - increase stem cell production/mobilisation(5)
     -Interestingly it decreases CXCR4 in Tumor cells (6,7)

Just to name a few.  All of which suggest glyconutrients can have substantial beneficial effects on various conditions of the body without it having anything to do with absorbing sugars. (And did I mention Gum Arabic is really inexpensive??)

1.  Ying M, Xu R, Wu X, Zhu H, Zhuang Y, Han M, Xu T. Sodium butyrate ameliorates histone hypoacetylation and neurodegenerative phenotypes in a mouse model for DRPLA.J Biol Chem. 2005 Dec 28
2.  Entin-Meer M, Rephaeli A, Yang X, Nudelman A, VandenBerg SR, Haas-Kogan DA.
Butyric acid prodrugs are histone deacetylase inhibitors that show antineoplastic activity and radiosensitizing capacity in the treatment of malignant gliomas.
Mol Cancer Ther. 2005 Dec;4(12):1952-61.
3.  Kida Y, Shimizu T, Kuwano K. Links Sodium butyrate up-regulates cathelicidin gene expression via activator protein-1 and histone acetylation at the promoter region in a human lung epithelial cell line, EBC-1. Mol Immunol. 2006 Jan 16;
4.  Soderberg LS, Boger S, Fifer EK, Gilbert KM. Related Articles, Links  
 Macrophage production of inflammatory mediators is potently inhibited by a butyric acid derivative demonstrated to inactivate antigen-stimulated T cells. Int Immunopharmacol. 2004 Sep;4(9):1231-9.
5. Gupta SK, Pillarisetti K, Aiyar N. CXCR4 undergoes complex lineage and inducing agent-dependent dissociation of expression and functional responsiveness to SDF-1alpha during myeloid differentiation.  J Leukoc Biol. 2001 Sep;70(3):431-8.  
6.  Shibuta K, Mori M, Shimoda K, Inoue H, Mitra P, Barnard GF. Regional expression of CXCL12/CXCR4 in liver and hepatocellular carcinoma and cell-cycle variation during in vitro differentiation.Jpn J Cancer Res. 2002 Jul;93(7):789-97.  
7.  Jordan NJ, Kolios G, Abbot SE, Sinai MA, Thompson DA, Petraki K, Westwick J. Expression of functional CXCR4 chemokine receptors on human colonic epithelial cells. J Clin Invest. 1999 Oct;104(8):1061-9.  

Remembering that combinations of different glyconutrients have been shown to increase ratios of butyric acid, propionic acid, etc, may also suggest why a combination of more than one has better effects.

So, for you selling these supplements, here is more scientific evidence to help you.  However, Since Mannatech doesn't make any of these ingredients, those who don't want to pay high prices can buy the ingredients, made by the same companies Mannatech buys them from, and mix your own.  Your choice, as long as everyone gets the benefits.


Exciting stuff

Duane
 

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Offline Greg Smith

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #163 on: 21/01/2006 17:07:53 »
Hi folks!

 Although I'm new to the group and this discussion, I have been interested Mannatech and it's products for some time. I am particularly interested in the research as presented on the "glycoscience.com" web site. Of the sixty "product specific" research articles listed, less than a handful appear to be conducted using controls. Does anyone know if "double blind, placebo controlled" studies for any of Mannatech's products are underway or planned? It seems to me if Mannatech wishes it's supplements to become accepted and adopted by the mainstream medical community, more of these type studies need to be conducted and published in medical journals such as the "Journal of the American Medical Association" or the "New England Journal of Medicine". Also, can anyone tell me what happened with this particular study supposedly done in 1998 by the New Jersey Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Fibromyalgia Center?

http://www.dfwcfids.org/cfids/fightfatigue.html

I can't seem to find the results anywhere and my emails to the New Jersey CFS/FM Center go unanswered.

 Thanks so much!

 Greg
 

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #164 on: 22/01/2006 19:06:09 »
Hi Greg and Valerie (thanks for the recoveries you shared),
Welcome and please do stick around. It gets a little messy here sometimes. Just like life in the real world ;o)
_______________________________________________________________________________

It looks as though we are seeing the results of regeneration of the liver, etc. in this case. It appears as if those stem cells are doing their thing again.
God's ability to heal and his family using glyconutrients:
http://www.miracleboy.org/

It blesses my socks off to see how God deals with the gods of the science world.
Glyconutrients are a gift to mankind that came through the back door of science. Given into the hands of regular folks like you and me. A natural food and not a drug.
While we don't see many doctors and scientist supporting this technology (yet), this doesn't change a thing for us. We have a win win situation with the results and we don't have to wait for the multi-billion dollar paid science and pharmaceutical industry to develop more drugs to keep us healthy.
KC

1Corinthians: 26-27
For consider your calling, brethren that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong.




His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 22/01/2006 20:52:18 by Kittycat »

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #165 on: 23/01/2006 04:47:22 »
It is great to realize that God made these substances, and many more...Not Mannatech, and we don't need Mannatech to benefit from them.

Duane
 

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #166 on: 28/01/2006 03:07:47 »
Yes Duane, once again you are right.
We don't need Mannatech to benefit from them. I wonder if we need Mannatech's patent ratios to copy Ambrotose and benefit from it? We wouldn't even be able to encourage others to fill Ambrotose jars and sell homemade glyconutrients to fulfill their greed.
Also many would not be aware of glyconutrients or even be alive if Mannatech were non-existent. This makes me wonder again, would these living ones agree with such strong opinions? And I'll be, there would be no reason to display interpretations and argue. What a boring world that would be. ;o)
Have a good one, KC

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 28/01/2006 04:26:49 by Kittycat »

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #167 on: 28/01/2006 04:30:24 »
Did we hit a nerve?  Take a few more glycos and maybe it will regenerate.
 

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #168 on: 28/01/2006 06:51:52 »
No, but thanks for asking, I find it fun too. It must be the gitty effect of the sugars, or maybe the great beer (or 10;O)) I just enjoyed, either way having fun and hope you are too. Sleep well, KC

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
« Last Edit: 29/01/2006 17:09:59 by Kittycat »

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Offline Calm

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #169 on: 28/01/2006 09:38:12 »
Thanks Duane.  And thank you to all others in this discussion.  I have read this whole thread from a non-biased perspective, and I think there has been a misunderstanding.  Duane is saying that there is an alternative to Mannatech, that is cheaper and just as effective.  That's pretty much all.  I don't see why slamming him is at all helpful to anyone.  As they say, give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life.  Mannatech is offering me an expensive fish fillet.

I make my own herbal tinctures, and I'm sure those in Herbal Life would not like it when I "teach a man to fish" and make his own tinctures either.  But it doesn't mean my tinctures are lesser.  I see Duane helping more people by sharing this information, and helping them more long term - by showing them self sufficiency and giving access to recipes.  If it is a big, wealthy corporation against one guy - why on earth are you slamming the one guy?  Can't the corporation look after themselves?
 

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #170 on: 29/01/2006 22:58:36 »
Hello everyone,

I have found these links to be very helpful in the learning process regarding the science, technology and how the body requires glyconutrients .

I will continue to share info that I have studied and hope that this is helpful as it has helped me tremendously.

FROM DR. MURRAY CO-AUTHOR OF THE HARPER'S BIOCHEMISTRY TEXTBOOK:

http://www.doctorshealthcall.com/Basic%20Science%20of%20Sugar.htm

Dr. Murray received his medical degree from the University of Glasgow, Scotland, in 1956. He interned at Victoria Hospital, London, and then completed a further year of post-graduate training at the University of Michigan, USA, where he was awarded an MS degree in Physiology in 1958. This was followed by three more years of graduate research in Biochemistry at the University of Toronto, Canada, culminating in him being awarded a PhD degree in 1961.Upon completion of his PhD, he received an appointment as Assistant Professor at the University of Toronto. In 1965 he was appointed Senior Post-Doctoral Fellow, Oncology and Pathology, at the University of Wisconsin, returning to the University of Toronto in 1968 as Associate Professor, Biochemistry, where he was appointed Professor in 1973.

Dr. Murray had a distinguished teaching and research career at the University during which he received Faculty and Alumni awards for teaching, trained more than a dozen graduate students, published over fifty scientific peer-reviewed papers, authored multiple textbook articles, and was one of authors of the last five editions of 'Harper's Biochemistry', the 25th edition of which has just been published in 2000.

Since 1998, Dr. Murray has served as Professor (Emeritus) at the University of Toronto and recently as a consultant in carbohydrate biology and biochemistry to the nutritional supplement industry.


GLYCOPROTEIN SYNTHESIS REQUIRING NUTRITION AND OPTIMIZED BY GLYCONUTRIENTS:

http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/molecularbiology-dietarysupplements.htm

Dr. Reg McDaniel:
http://www.drreg.net/



We are fearfully and Wonderfully made

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Offline paket

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #171 on: 30/01/2006 06:06:57 »
I found this forum while researching glyco. (My wife is seeing a counseller who, by some strange coincidence, wants to sell her the stuff) I want to send out a big THANK YOU to duane and ylide for providing real info that isn't rote parroting of a sales brochure.

I also found out what UC-Berkely thought about glyco supplements:
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsGlyconutrients.php

And the Mayo Clinic:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/glyconutrients/AN01102

thanks guys
 

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #172 on: 30/01/2006 14:39:43 »
Hi Paket, welcome to this forum,

It is not always the coziest place but many of us are learning together here regarding glyconutrients.
I understand your skepticism since I was there myself. Thank you for the links you provided I found them helpful.
As I read them, the thought I had was that most doctors or scientists either don't or won't recognize the benefit of anything other than surgery, medical procedures or drugs and they in turn may have their financial investment threatened or perhaps they don't know enough about food nutrients/supplements and may be afraid of lawsuits.

I may be wrong, however the way I see it is that science usually supports few if any benefit at all to food having healing properties, food supplements, or anything that is not a drug.
I do see more of a trend lately since the public is demanding more alternative type avenues, (obviously food is not alternative), of health care which is forcing western medicine to change.

The very fact that drug companies are using carbohydrates with drugs,
 http://www.pro-pharmaceuticals.com/aboutus-video1.htm confirms that they see the value in it, but no value in a food supplement?
Could it be because there is no financial gain with people eating the food the body needs to heal?

I hope you will have an open mind for your wife's benefit. I have seen many not willing to learn more about it and they are influenced by the negativity in forums, or by their doctors who tell them not to use glyconutrients without any knowledge of what glyconutrients are.
 
Dr. Murray co-author of the HARPER'S BIOCHEMISTRY TEXTBOOK recognizes the benefit of glyconutrient supplementation, shouldn't we?
KC

We are fearfully and Wonderfully made
« Last Edit: 30/01/2006 14:52:05 by Kittycat »

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #173 on: 02/02/2006 08:04:40 »
Did I mention that I talked with Bill McAnalley,Ph.D. (the father of glyconutrients) last week when he was in town.  Anyway...

Most of this post is for those people NOT here selling anything, but just looking at objective information in this area.

At another forum (curezone.com), a poster brought up the topic of Inulin.  Being the curious type, I did a little research on this easily obtained glyconutrient and found out some very interesting things.

Let me start by saying, INULIN IS CHEAP. 8 oz (222 grams) inulin powder from NOW foods is only $3.85 (www.vitaglo.com), other sites it runs a little more.

INULIN is a polysaccharide (glyconutrient) but it is not made up of a complex amount of sugars most people have not heard of before, but of long chains of fructose with some glucose. SO WHAT BENEFIT COULD JUST A CHAIN OF FRUCTOSE BE???? THESE AREN'T THE MISSING SUGARS IN OUR DIET!!!

Well lets see what Duane found in the few moments of researching this topic...
_________________________________________________________
Inulin is a beta-linked (non-digestible) chain of fructose with some glucose

Inulin: (oral:dietary) Has been shown in scientific studies to:

*Shifts percentage of Bifidobacterium in your colon from 20% to 71% in as little as 5 days. (decreases clostridia - nasty guys - to almost zero) (Bifidobacterium - Good Guys - See below)
*Causes microorganisms to produce mostly Butyrate (See below)(Fructooligosaccharides – FOS - main product is acetate and lactate, so inulin has an advantage)
*Stimulates immune system directly and indirectly (see below)
*Increases ion absorption (e.g. calcium, magnesium)
*Increase in bone mineral density in animals (FOS does not)
*Improves Bone mineral density in human adolescents (being studied for osteoporosis)
*Decreases tissue proinflammatory cytokines
*Reduces colonic inflammation
*Reduce risk for colon cancer.
*Prevents Chronic Inflammatory intestinal diseases
*Increase concentration of secretory IgA in ileum and caecum.
*Increase splenic NK cell cytotoxicity as well as splenocyte cytokine production
*Improves cognitive function and learning discrimination in rats
*Decreases triglycerides and cholesterol in hyperlipidemic people (again, FOS not as effective)
*In animals: Decrease incidence of cancers, inhibits growth of transplanted cancers, prevents metastasis.
*Potentiates (improves) the effects of Cancer radiotherapy and many chemotherapies
*Decreases fecal ammonia (ammonia is plant food – Yeast is a plant)

Documented Health benefits of Bifidobacterium: (which is significantly increased because of INULIN)

*Inhibit growth of harmful bacteria and yeasts
*Aid in the absorption of certain ions
*Synthesis of certain B vitamins
*Inhibited harmful enzymes (beta-glucosidase, beta-glucuronidase, tryptophanase and urease)
*lowers the pH colon.
*Also they inhibit ammonia production of intestinal microflora,
*Lower colonic pH

Immune Effects of Inulin and Bifidobacterium

* enlargement of a number of T-cells and increasing of major histocompatibility complex (MHC-II) molecule on the surface of an antigen-presenting cells of spleen, mesenteric lymph nodes, thymus was noted.
* increasing of content interleukin-2 and interleukin-4 in blood was noted in rats fed inulin and oligofructose.
Increase concentration of secretory IgA in ileum and caecum.
*Increase splenic NK cell cytotoxicity as well as splenocyte cytokine production

Huge benefits of increased butyrate (which is significantly increased by Inulin specifically)
*Energy source for colonic epithelia
*Anti-inflammatory
*Immunomodulatory
*Anti-cancer (can actually turn a cancer cell into a normal cell – differentiation)
*Decreases pH of colon (beneficial)
*Stimulates CXCR4 in bone marrow (stimulate stem cells?), but inhibits it in cancer cells.
*Multiple other effects, many of which have been elicited in other posts in this forum.

Following is from: http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/129/7/1402S
Shifts in the distribution of fecal microflora in humans provided a diet without and with supplemental inulin. Source: Gibson et al. (1995) .

Standard Diet
65% Bacteriodes
20 %Bifidobacteria
12% Fusobacteria
3% Clostridia

Inulin Diet
71% Bifidobacteria
26% Bacteriodes
3% Fusobacteria
0.3% Clostridia
___________________________________________________________

WOW. Is that impressive? And that is not all of the effects, just the ones I listed. You could also add effects on free fatty acids, digestion of foods, indirect effects on allergic and auto-immune reactions, and a whole host of secondary effects.

All those beneficial effects, and just with a beta-linked chain of Fructose??? How many of those same benefits are the people who take the EXPENSIVE glyconutrients looking for??? Could some of them get just as good benefits with this simple alternative??? OR Would this be something we could use in place of the Gum Ghatti, or Gum Tragacanth in our home recipes????

I still think the Arabinogalactan and Acemannan (manapol) have some separate benefits because they have some added benefits of stimulating specific receptors in the intestines (e.g. mannan-binding lectins, galectins, etc) that can stimulate certain immunologic and other physiologic functions that Inulin will not have, and of course, glucosamine is great for joint health, so these do have their place for many people and conditions.

I suspect that many people, depending on their condition and symptoms, could equally benefit just from this one supplement. It would be interesting to compare this, or various combinations of inulin and other ingredients to the Patented formula for effects. Either way, I hope this information helps someone.

GREAT STUFF!!!!!

Let me know if anyone has any experience with this.

Duane

(Below are a few of the articles, references or abstracts that I found fascinating as I evaluated and investigated this material. Some of the more technical may find it more interesting than others, but I thought I would add it.)

___________________________________________________________


"Inulin is a beta-linked polydisperse ß(21) fructan,(chains of fructose) with a glucose molecule at the end of each glucose chain. The beta linkages keep the molecule from being digested in the small intestine. There is an excellent article in Journal of Nutrition which shows a pie chart that shows the results of a study showing a radical increase in bifidobacteria and a equal decrease in clostridium."
(Kathy R. Niness Inulin and Oligofructose: What Are They? Journal of Nutrition. 1999;129:1402S-1406S)

Another important factor of inulin is that the major fermentation product is butyrate, whereas fructooligosaccharides main product is acetate and lactate. (Fermentation of fructooligosaccharides and inulin by bifidobacteria: a comparative study of pure and fecal cultures. Appl Environ Microbiol. 2005 Oct;71(10):6150-8)


“Health benefits ascribed to Bifidobacteria include the following: inhibiting the growth of harmful bacteria, stimulating of components of the immune system and aiding the absorption of certain ions and the synthesis of B vitamins. The bifidogenic effect of inulin and oligofructose has been well proven (Bouhnik et al. 1994B3B3 , Djouzi and Andrieux 1997B14B14 , Gibson et al. 1995B18B18 , Gibson and Roberfroid 1995B19B19 , Hidaka et al. 1986B23B23 , Kleessen et al. 1994B26B26 , Menne et al. 1997B35B35 , Mitsuoka 1986B36B36 , Mitsukoa et al. 1987B37B37 , Roberfroid et al. 1998B50B50 , Sanno 1986B58B58 , Shimoyama et al. 1984B61B61 , Takahashi 1986B65B65 ). Dramatic positive shifts in the composition of microflora have been shown through in vivo human studies at doses between 5 and 20 g/d, generally over a 15-d period (Fig. 1F1F1 : Gibson et al. 1995B18B18 ), (Kleessen et al. 1994B26B26 , Menne et al. 1997B35B35 , Wang 1993B72B72 , Wang and Gibson 1993B73B73 ).” (from the paper by Kathy Niness.

A combination of prebiotic short- and long-chain inulin-type fructans enhances calcium absorption and bone mineralization in young adolescents. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Aug;82(2):471-6.

In general, the study demonstrated that oligofructose-enriched inulin at 5 % in the diet, and particularly at 10 % in the diet, caused relaxing-like effects, stimulated and increased the general activity and interest of the rats to the test environment. In addition, both doses of oligofructose-enriched inulin showed significant effects on learning discrimination in male rats, in comparison with the control diet. These results suggest that oligofructose-enriched inulin, particularly at the dose of 10 %, improves cognitive performances in the light extinction test and the well-being of male rats using the FOB. (Behavioural and cognitive effects of oligofructose-enriched inulin in rats. Br J Nutr. 2005 Apr;93 Suppl 1:S27-30.)



In Vivo. 2005 Jan-Feb;19(1):201-4.Possible adjuvant cancer therapy by two prebiotics--inulin or oligofructose.
Taper HS, Roberfroid MB
Dietary treatment with inulin or oligofructose incorporated in the basal diet for experimental animals: (I) reduced the incidence of mammary tumors induced in Sprague-Dawley rats by methylnitrosourea; (II) inhibited the growth of transplantable malignant tumors in mice; (III) decreased the incidence of lung metastases of a malignant tumor implanted intramuscularily in mice. (IV) Moroever, besides such cancer risk reduction effects, dietary treatment with inulin or oligofructose significantly potentiated the effects of subtherapeutic doses of six cytotoxic drugs commonly utilized in human cancer treatment. (V) The same prebiotics potentiated the effects of radiotherapy on solid form of TLT tumors to a statistically very high level. Such dietary treatment, with the inulin or oligofructose potentiating the effects of cancer therapy, might be introduced into classic protocols of human cancer treatment as a new, non-toxic and easily applicable adjuvant cancer therapy without any additional risk to patients.

Arch Pharm Res. 1998 Feb;21(1):54-61.
Inhibitory effects of Bifidobacterium spp. isolated from a healthy Korean on harmful enzymes of human intestinal microflora.

Park HY, Bae EA, Han MJ, Choi EC, Kim DH.

Department of Food and Nutrition, Kyung-Hee University, Seoul, Korea.

Five hundreds of bifidobacteria were isolated from a healthy Korean and the inhibitory effects of these isolated bacteria on harmful enzymes of human intestinal microflora were examined by cocultivation of the isolated bifidobacteria with E. coli or total human intestinal microflora. In comparison with the results of E. coli or intestinal microflora cultivation, Bifidobacterium breve K-110, B. breve K-111 and B. infantis K-525 effectively inhibited harmful enzymes (beta-glucuronidase and tryptophanase) of E. coli and lowered the pH of the culture media. Also they inhibited the harmful enzymes (beta-glucosidase, beta-glucuronidase, tryptophanase and urease) and ammonia production of intestinal microflora, and lowered pH of the culture media by increasing lactic acid bacteria of intestinal microflora. When these isolated bifidobacteria were administered on mice, fecal harmful enzymes were also inhibited. Among tested bifidobacteria, B. breve K-110 had the highest inhibitory effect of fecal harmful enzymes.





 

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #174 on: 04/02/2006 01:25:39 »
Hello everyone,

Apparently there has been someone trying to cause trouble for me and others. They  are sending emails in my name, harassing  people, and trying to cause problems using other names in forums. Please don't open any emails from me.
I do not want anyone to get a computer virus. I apologize  for any inconvenience and I have alerted the moderator.

I unfortunately have to remove any access to my emails in order to avoid this being a problem for others. I don't know why someone would do this...nothing better to do than to try to disqualify me, make me look as bad as possible and hurt others in doing so?
You would think that someone that knows computers well enough to inflict harm like this would use their smarts to help others not do destructive things like this. Very desperate thing to do.
KC
« Last Edit: 04/02/2006 01:58:01 by Kittycat »

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Kittycat

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #175 on: 04/02/2006 03:09:11 »
Update:
 After speaking with my husband, he has expressed concern regarding my involvement in forums and no longer wants me to be involved.
My involvement has brought about some sort of computer hacker that is using my IP and emailing files with my return address and reeking havoc in other forums.
My husband has asked me not to be involved at all since this has happened and he is concerned that someone has access to my computer somehow.
We may need to replace the mother board too. I hope this never happens to anyone else.
I hope that my involvement here has contributed to us learning more regarding glyconutrients.
A special enormous thanks to Neil for all his help in this forum.
Sorry that this has happened...better to play it safe.
PLEASE DO NOT OPEN ANY EMAILS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY ARE FROM ME ESP. IF THEY HAVE A FILE ATTACHED...I DID NOT EMAIL YOU ANYTHING.
God bless you all! KC

We are Fearfully and Wonderfully made

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #176 on: 04/02/2006 08:09:46 »
Hello again,

Now that you have had the opportunity to chew on the idea of inulin There is more to be said.  Inulin can have benefits of improving balance of bifidobacteria, and it can increase butyrate, but it doesn't have the same benefits as some of the other glyconutrients...WHY? Because it is fructose.

Funny thing about bacteria, viruses, yeasts, and even cancer cells. They seem to have polysaccharides all over them. Most of these are mannans (mannose chains) or galactans(galactose chains). Why is this important???

(Please, anyone who wants the references to what I am about to write, e-mail me and I will forward them to you)

In simple language, your body, especially your intestines (which come in contact with more microorganisms than anywhere in your body) have a lot of "receptors" that are on the look out for the chains of sugars found on these pathogens (disease causing organims). These receptors are called "Lectins". They are literally glycoproteins which can attach to certain chains of sugars. Two of the most important are the "Mannan Binding Lectin" and "Galectin" which bind Chains of Mannose, or chains of galactose, respectively.

For example, once a mannan binding lectin (MBL) attaches to a yeast cell wall (which contains a mannose polysaccharide) it activates certain immune functions. If a whole lot of MBL's attach to yeasts, then there is more immune activation, and production of certain other chemicals (cytokines) that have other benefits as well.

The same is true of Galectins. Galectin-1 for example has been shown to be immunomodulatory, inhibit inflammation, and stimulate nerve tissue regeneration, regulate immune homeostasis (important in allergy and auto-immune diseases) as well as more. (see below, I will post some of the references at the end of the post).

1. HOW IS THIS IMPORTANT IN GLYCONUTRIENTS?
2. HOW CAN INULIN MAGNIFY THIS EFFECT?

Arabinogalactan and Manapol (Acemannan) have already been shown to stimulate certain aspects of the immune system. Manapol is a polysaccharide made out of chains of mannose, similar to the chains of mannose found on various micro-organisms. So, lets say you take a dose of this substance. The MBL's in your intestines attach to these chains and mistakenly think "OH NO MASSIVE INFECTION, NEED TO ACTIVATE" and that stimulates the immune sytem to activate by various mechanism, including the production of messenger chemicals called "cytokines". So your immune system is stimulated, but Manapol doesn't cause any disease like yeasts and other microorganisms, so your immune system can go off and work on any other problems that it has been ignoring.

HOW DOES INULIN HELP??

By a few factors, but here is an important one. The main short-chain fatty acid produced by bacteria eating inulin is butyrate. Butyrate has many important effects on the intestines and the human body, but the one that really is important here is that butyrate increases Galectin-1 gene expression by 8 to 18 times!

So inulin increases butyrate which increases the galectin-1 and so more galectin-1 binds chains of galactose as found in Arabinogalactan, which magnifies the effects of Arabinogalactan on the immune system, and many other areas. I have seen no studies to show if similar effects are found on the MBL's, but it is possible.

In the case of candida overgrowth, for example, the benefits of inulin, and like substances, is that certain strains of bifidobacteria and lactobacillus (which become the dominant micro-organism when taking inulin), actually kill certain yeasts, such as candida. Also, Short-Chain Fatty Acids, produced by these bacteria decrease the pH in the colon, which makes it difficult for yeast to live. Inulin also has been shown to significantly decrease the ammonia produced in the colon. Ammonia is a fertilizer for plants, such as yeasts, so less ammonia, less food for yeasts. This alone in beneficial, but yeasts are stubborn.

Candida has two forms, think of it as a plant, with a bud form in the colon, and roots (called hyphae) which attach and penetrate. Kill the plant in the colon, and the roots still go on living. Inulin helps kill the weeds in your colon, but not in the colon wall. The arabinogalactan and acemannan stimulate the immune system, within the colon wall, and the roots get eaten. Hence the combination works better than any one alone. (no wonder women with chronic recurring yeast infections love glyconutrients).

And that is just one example. When you look at the large amount of evidence that galectin-1 can help modulate auto-immune disease, and that inulin leads to increase butyrate, which increases galectin-1 gene expression, and arabinogalactan binds and activates the galectin-1, you can start seeing how these combinations can help in things like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, MS, etc. Same concept with nerve diseases/damage.(see some of the references listed at the end).

So the whole combination again, becomes greater than the whole.

{I personally don't think gum Tragacanth or Gum Ghatti, even though they are soluble fiber also, would have as good benefits without the other glyconutrients either.  Could one replace them in the recipe with inulin and still get the same effects as Ambrotose?  Hmmm?)

Now, what if you could give bifidobacteria and inulin at the same time so that the bacteria could have food at the beginning of the digestive system, so more of them would live, and so that butyrate could begin having direct effects on the small intestine rather than mostly being produced in the large intestine. That would be great. It is the concept of SYNBIOTICS, and there is some important research on this as well, But it will have to wait for another post. (gotta give you time to let it soak in).

Let me know what you think. Lets discuss it.

Duane
(some of the references below)

"Butyrate regulation of glycosylation-related gene expression: evidence for galectin-1 upregulation in human intestinal epithelial goblet cells." Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 2004 Dec 17;325(3):1044-51.
"Transcriptional regulation by butyrate of mouse galectin-1 gene in embryonal carcinoma cells." Biochim Biophys Acta. 1999 Jan 18;1444(1):85-91

Dimeric galectin-1 induces IL-10 production in T-lymphocytes: an important tool in the regulation of the immune response
Source: The Journal of Pathology, December 2004, vol. 204, no. 5, pp. 511-518(8)
Publisher: John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
Abstract:

Galectin-1, a -galactoside binding protein that can occur as both a monomer and a homodimer... ...Administration of high concentrations of galectin-1 may be a useful tool in the treatment of T-cell-mediated diseases. (note from duane, certain hepatitis are "T-Cell mediated disease which is why I used glyconutrients for my sister with chronic Hepatitis C).

References concerning Galactin-1 and Autoimmune

“Galectin-1 had shown therapeutic activity against autoimmune disease in two experimental models, i.e., experimental autoimmune myasthenia gravis (10) and experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (11). However, the molecular mechanisms involved in these immunomodulatory properties still remain to be elucidated. In this context, hypotheses have been raised concerning the ability of galectin-1 to affect processes in T cell suppressor commitment (11) and in sensitization or deletion of Ag-specific T cells (10). On the basis of recent investigations, there is evidence for specific cell growth-inhibitory activity of galectin-1 (7, 8) and its implication in apoptosis of activated T cells (25) and a particular subset of immature thymocytes (26).”

(from The Journal of Immunology, 1998, 160: 4831-4840.

Activated Rat Macrophages Produce a Galectin-1-Like Protein That Induces Apoptosis of T Cells: Biochemical and Functional Characterization1

Gabriel A. Rabinovich2,*, María M. Iglesias , Nidia M. Modesti3, , Leonardo F. Castagna3, , Carlota Wolfenstein-Todel , Clelia M. Riera* and Claudia E. Sotomayor*)
10. Levi, G., R. Tarrab-Hazdai, V. I. Teichberg. 1983. Prevention and therapy with electrolectin of experimental autoimmune myasthenia gravis in rabbits. Eur. J. Immunol. 13:500.[Medline]
11. Offner, H., B. Celnik, T. S. Bringman, D. Casentini-Borocz, G. E. Nedwin, A. Vandenbark. 1990. Recombinant human ß-galactoside binding lectin suppresses clinical and histological signs of experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis. J. Neuroimmunol. 28:177.[Medline]

REGULATION OF IMMUNE HOMEOSTASIS:ROLE OF SECRETED AND INTRACELLULAR GALECTIN-1
“…Although galectin-1 is widely expressed in a large number of tissues and fulfills pleiotropic extracellular functions, it specifically acts on the immune response by preventing autoimmune and inflammatory processes….”

http://www.szbk.hu/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=25


Regulation of Immune Responses by Galectins

…Possibly because of galectin-1's apoptotic nature, the introduction of galectin-1 in various autoimmune model systems results in the amelioration of clinical symptoms…

http://www.gak.co.jp/FCCA/glycoword/ISA03/IS-A03E.html


Hepatology
Volume 31, Issue 2 , Pages 399 - 406
Galectin-1 exerts immunomodulatory and protective effects on concanavalin a-induced hepatitis in mice Luca Santucci, M.D., Ph.D. 1 *, Stefano Fiorucci 1, Francesco Cammilleri 1, Giuseppe Servillo 2, Barbara Federici 1, Antonio Morelli 1


ABSTRACT

Galectin-1, an endogenous lectin with immunomodulatory activities, ...The present study suggests that galectin-1 is potentially useful in the treatment of T-cell-mediated human liver disorders. J Dairy Sci. 2005 Feb;88(2):766-75.
Immune parameters of dry cows fed mannan oligosaccharide and subsequent transfer of immunity to calves.
"...Results indicate that supplementation of MOS to cows during the dry period enhanced their immune response to rotavirus and tended to enhance the subsequent transfer of rotavirus antibodies to calves."

Galectin-1 suppresses experimental colitis in mice. Gastroenterology. 2003 May;124(5):1381-94 "...CONCLUSION: Collectively, these data show that hrGAL-1 exerts protective and immunomodulatory activity in TNBS-induced colitis and it might be effective in the treatment of inflammatory bowel diseases."

Galectin-1 plays essential roles in adult mammalian nervous tissues. Roles of oxidized galectin-1. Glycoconj J. 2004;19(7-9):479-89.

Identification of oxidized galectin-1 as an initial repair regulatory factor after axotomy in peripheral nerves. Neurosci Res. 2000 Oct;38(2):131-7.

Oxidized galectin-1 stimulates macrophages to promote axonal regeneration in peripheral nerves after axotomy. J Neurosci. 2004 Feb 25;24(8):1873-80

Galectin-1 in regenerating motoneurons. Eur J Neurosci. 2004 Dec;20(11):2872-80.

Galectin-1 expression correlates with the regenerative potential of rubrospinal and spinal motoneurons. Neuroscience. 2004;128(4):713-9

Distribution of the galectin-1 mRNA in the rat nervous system: its transient upregulation in rat facial motor neurons after facial nerve axotomy. Neuroscience. 2004;125(1):171-8.


(If anyone reads this far) E-mail me if you want more. I never realize how much information I have collected until I try and list it or read through it again. At least I am trying to be thorough.



 

 

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Offline Calm

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #177 on: 07/02/2006 01:59:53 »
Hi, still reading this last page, quite a bit of info to get through.  But wanted to say how sorry I am that this has happened to you, Kittycat.  Thanks for the warning!  I haven't had any emails in your name, but I have had emails that have the subject "none" and there is nothing in the content.  My husband told me to delete them as soon as I get them, but I am curious as to what the heck they are.  Wrong forum, I know, but anyone have any idea what that is?  I'm getting them frequently, almost every day, and only since the new year.  I don't even think my email is public on this forum, actually.
 

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Offline Calm

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #178 on: 07/02/2006 02:03:11 »
Ok, that's great stuff, Duane, and I'm going to send a link for a friend to read it.  Strangely, I've been looking into lectins lately, so this is another sign I should have a closer look. Thanks.
 

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Offline Ged

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #179 on: 12/02/2006 08:26:45 »
I have been reading your posts and came across a website of a company that sounds like it has done much of what you are talking about.  The owner says that he has gotten threatening letters from Mannatech because of what he has done with glyconutrients.

They have links to alot of research and claimes that his glyconutrients called glycomannan is being used in a oncology clinical trial.

here is the website http://www.glycomannan.com/  they have some interesting stuff.

They also have a link to buy it but no distributorship or multi-level which I thought was kind of strange.  I don't see how they will make it  without multi-level marketing of some kind but the owner says he  is hoping to bring glyconutrients to the level of a respected healthcare alternative not just a get rich quick scheme.  They say that their Lab is even registered with the FDA whatever that means.
 

What was of primary interest to me is thier use of specific polysaccharides - which occur in the form of Beta-D-glucans bound to amino acids found in concentrates of certain mushrooms particularly the ****ake and reishi.  

They also make claims of Kamut grass concentrate being able to help activate the glyconutrients when taken together, but I could find no science to anywhere to really back up this claim.

All in all though an interesting development on the glyconutrient front.
 

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Offline Greg Smith

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #180 on: 12/02/2006 17:14:53 »
From the glycomannan web site:

"Scientists have discovered that our modern diet is missing some very vital nutrients. Surprisingly enough, these missinig nutrients are called sugars!"

Has there ever been a proper study that actually supports this claim? Could someone give me a link, please?

Thanks!

Greg

 

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Offline bossless

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #181 on: 12/02/2006 23:50:29 »
I came across this forum in search for information about glyconutrients.  Duane, I thank you the most for helping me to understand what Mannatech is all about in this arena.  Your information seems to be well researched and backed up by recognized scientific resources.  More so than Mannatech.  

It seems to me with the success that Mannatech is having with its glyconutrient products that there would be other similar products provided by reputable manufacturers that would be available at health food stores such as GNC.  Any comment?
 

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Offline littletiebear

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #182 on: 15/02/2006 06:44:52 »
Mannatechers -
Just wanted to say thanks for all the stuff you put my family through the last month of my moms life. I especially enjoyed when you called my dad up at the hotel the night before she went in for brain surgery and told him "don't do the surgery, just call it off and take the glyconutrients". With your high school education I'm sure you are well qualified to make such medical suggestions. It was brilliant to jump in at that moment, when they were so vulnerable and in such emotional turmoil. I love how you convinced my dad to spend over a thousand dollars to buy into the company because "the products are really going to pay for themselves" and "of course this going to save her life". How fast it moved from saving my moms life to getting them into the business. I really enjoyed how you used your position as friend to convince us that you just honestly cared. She is dead and of course I am angry. This is a dangerous game you people are playing, right up there with crack dealers and female slave trafficking. Yes we were fools, we were desperate. We were not looking for a miracle drug, but you were looking for desperate people. I'm not angry that it did not save her life, I am angry about every minute that you stole from my families precious time.

Peoples health is not something you just throw around like you have the slightest clue what you are talking about. If you are not a PHD, MD in medicine and biology than keep your mouth shut about what people need for their bodies.

If you or someone you know is dying than please do not turn to one of these people that push this stuff like heroin on a desperate junky. Rather, when they turn to you, as they have an eye for desperate souls, run fast and do not let their toxic mouths be opened.

How angry you must feel mannatechers that I speak this way, for I dought you would have sadness for the loss of my mother.

I do not wish to pursuade you all from this product only to give a caution and personal note on what damaging things have happend because of the people involved. As for the product itself, well, it is too tainted with my moms blood for me to honestly consider it now. I hope nobody else has to go through this like we did.
 

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Offline sbyte

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #183 on: 18/02/2006 10:57:52 »
Hey, This looks like the place for a real two way disscussion
of glyco-nutrients.  Almost everywhere I look there is a lot of hype.
I am a user of the mannatech products.  Over all, I am satisfied with the results I get compaired to other supplements such as vitamins.  I am not overly taxed phisiologicly. Before taking the optimal health system I was more tired all the time than now. Have had very gradual improvements in my well being.  Am more happy now.  I think I was depressed before.

I've been researching the products and have some questions about dosage.
How do you arrive at the correct amount to take.  Is there any blood serum markers?  If fresh raw foods contain Glyconutrients then how much does an averge apple, carrot or tomato have compaired to the capsul of say ambrotose?  Surely there is quantitative analysis of the chemical makeup being done. Who wants to publish the findings? Why not?




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Offline Not2B4Gotten

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #184 on: 24/02/2006 04:48:22 »
Glyconutrients are nutrients missing from our modern diets that our body must have to repair and rebuild.  Its the building blocks for cellular communication.  There are 200 sugars found in nature, but glyconutrients are 8 essential sugars that go directly to the protein surface of each and every cell in our bodies to form a complex system for cellular communication, the "operating system" of the body.  

The body will heal itself if given the proper tools to do so.  So therefore, all disease conditions can improve with proper nutrition.

Check out:

Sugars That Heal - Dr. Emil I. Mondoa, MD and Mindy Kitei

Maggots, Wonder Drugs, Transplants & Genomes - Memoirs of an Old Doctor Whose Career Has Spanned It All - Rayburne W. Goen, MD

The Healing Power of 8 Sugars - An Amazing Breakthrough in Nutrition, Science and Medicine - What Doctors want YOU to know about Glyconutrients...The 8 Sugars Vital to Your Health - Compiled and Edited by Allan C. Somersall, PhD, MD

I've been studying glycobiology and glyconutrients for over a year now and I'd be glad to try and answer any questions.  

The truth shall set you free! ~ Blessings, Joy

Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com
Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com

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Offline Not2B4Gotten

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #185 on: 24/02/2006 04:48:58 »
Glyconutrients are nutrients missing from our modern diets that our body must have to repair and rebuild.  Its the building blocks for cellular communication.  There are 200 sugars found in nature, but glyconutrients are 8 essential sugars that go directly to the protein surface of each and every cell in our bodies to form a complex system for cellular communication, the "operating system" of the body.  

The body will heal itself if given the proper tools to do so.  So therefore, all disease conditions can improve with proper nutrition.

Check out:

Sugars That Heal - Dr. Emil I. Mondoa, MD and Mindy Kitei

Maggots, Wonder Drugs, Transplants & Genomes - Memoirs of an Old Doctor Whose Career Has Spanned It All - Rayburne W. Goen, MD

The Healing Power of 8 Sugars - An Amazing Breakthrough in Nutrition, Science and Medicine - What Doctors want YOU to know about Glyconutrients...The 8 Sugars Vital to Your Health - Compiled and Edited by Allan C. Somersall, PhD, MD

I've been studying glycobiology and glyconutrients for over a year now and I'd be glad to try and answer any questions.  

The truth shall set you free! ~ Blessings, Joy

Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com
Joy
Not2B4Gotten.com

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Offline bossless

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #186 on: 24/02/2006 15:11:35 »
Joy, if the body generates on its own the essential sugars, then why is it necessary to consume these sugars?  Are you suggesting that we need to consume these sugars in our diets?  I would think that good nutrition is necessary so that the body functions properly, but I don't think that necessitates these monosaccarides in our diets.
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #187 on: 24/02/2006 19:04:01 »
You are correct.  We do not need the "monosaccharides" (unless we have a genetic dysfunction making them), and very little, if any, of these monosaccharides are derived from the ingredients in "glyconutrient" supplements.  

Even Bill McAnalley, the person who began this craze, states that he estimates only about 20% of the monosaccharides that make up these ingredients gets absorbed (direct face-to-face personal communication with him) though there isn't any published research to support any get absorbed, or that they aren't all just converted to glucose soon thereafter.  

Deficient from our diets?  Vitamins and minerals, and even essential amino acids can be deficient from our diets, but these sugars are made by our bodies in sufficient amounts every day.  You can't be deficient in something your body efficiently makes, and no "deficiency" of these sugars has ever been documented except in those people that have a genetic inability to synthesize them.

Do these "glyconutrients" work?  Yes, but not because of the individual sugars getting absorbed, but because of the the effects of the whole chain of these sugars, and by MANY mechanisms, not just by one.  Many of these mechanisms have already been elucidated in this forum and in the curezone.com forum.  So I won't reiterate them now.  But take a look.  I think you will be impressed, even when you get past the marketing hype of the MLM company.  Especially when you realize you can get the ingredients yourself much cheaper if you want to try them.

Duane

 

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Offline Greg Smith

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #188 on: 24/02/2006 22:13:18 »
>and no "deficiency" of these sugars has ever been documented except in those people that have a genetic inability to synthesize them.


 This has been one of my questions for some time now. Where do proponents of glyconutrients get the idea that our modern diet is deficient in this respect? I have been unable to locate any study that even suggests it. I did, however, find a study that compares the presence of some nutrients (protein, Ca, P, Fe, riboflavin and ascorbic acid) in some vegetables harvested in 1999 to the levels found in 1950:

 http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/23/6/669

 It would be more than a stretch to use this study as evidence for the sugar deficiency, the way I see it. Can any of the "associates" who participate on this forum point out any other documentation?

 Thanks!

 Greg
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #189 on: 25/02/2006 06:04:35 »
The mistaken assumption of these substances being deficient in our diet is outlined in the paper "Is Saccharide Supplementation Necessary" at:  http://www.glycoscience.com/glycoscience/start_frames.wm?FILENAME=D008

This paper may impress the lay public, but is grossly mistaken in many of its suppositions when trying to be convincing that we need to supplement our diet with individual saccharides.

One of the main mistakes it makes is to compare these substances with vitamins and minerals.  The major difference is that vitamins and minerals cannot be made by your body, the saccharides can.  There are many other mistaken and irrelevent assumptions made by this paper as well.  Basically, there is no support that we need the individual saccharides.

However, realize that the ingredients in their supplement are NOT the individual saccharides.  They are complex, non-digestible chains of the sugars, that are considered dietary fiber.  And more and more research is showing that both soluble and insoluble fibers have many important benefits in health, and that we do not get enough in our diet.  

Also, different fibers can have different benefits/effects on health, so a combination is better than just adding one kind to your cereal in the morning.  This is where Mannatech's supplement has been beneficial (though there are many more economical and effective alternatives)  These fibers can stimulate the immune system, eliminate opportunistic microorganisms, improve blood-sugar levels, decrease cholesterol, improve liver function, improve healing, prevent certain cancers, etc.  (see previous posts on this forum and the curezone.com forum).

So there is the alternative view to the marketing hype.

Duane
 

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Offline alicilene

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #190 on: 30/03/2006 06:05:13 »


I am so disapointed when I read about people who are so mistrusting of products that can really help them,  I wonder if they were in as much pain themselves as others are who use glyconutrients, if maybe they would be a little more ready to use it themselves.   The problem with Drs. who don't like it, is that they don't want people to find a way to get better themselves.  And honestly most of them don't know that much about nutrition.  I have had back surgery, been in tremendous pain,  I have steel rods and cages with screws in my back,  I had fibromyalgia, severe arthritis, osteoporosis, tumors in one breast, and a cholesteral level that stayed between 350 and 400 at all time.  So yes I was desperate, and skeptical, because I had bought all kinds of "herbs" and products in the past that just wasted my money.  But my friend talked me into the glyconutrients, so I started taking Advanced Ambrotose in Sept of 05,  I went in Feb of 06 to get my yearly checkup,  (meanwhile I had quit taking my cholesteral meds, and fosomax (osteoporosis meds) back in Sept.  However I don't advise that for anyone.  I did it because the meds were making me sick,  Anyhow to make a long story short, I got back all my tests, and the bone scan shows that I have the bones of a 30 year old woman now, and said I no longer have osteoporosis, my cholesteral dropped from 367 down to 236,  My arthritis pain and the pain in my back has virtually disapered.   I would challenge any Dr. or hospital to tell me that my body just healed itself without the help of glyconutrients.  I will always be on them, because finally at 49 years old, I feel like I have my life back.  What I pay for the product is not only worth it,  but is made up for due to the fact that I no longer have to be on some of my meds.
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #191 on: 01/04/2006 04:15:22 »
We are not mistrusting of the supplements, they work wonderfully, but we mistrust the companies that sell them.  

Because these supplements worked for you, you probably believe that it was because that you absorbed 8 sugars that helped your body heal itself.  However, while the supplement does work, it had nothing to do with 8 sugars being absorbed.  In fact there is no research showing you absorb any sugars from these substances, or that they have even increased even one glycoprotein, or even if a glycoprotein was increased, that it had anything to do with helping your symptoms.  

However, virtually all of your symptoms/problems that you described can easily be shown to be effected positively by other mechanisms.  For example, did you know that soluble fibers (like the ingredients in these supplements) have been shown to significantly increase the absorption of calcium, and are being investigated for their use in treating osteoporosis?  

Yes the supplements work.  We take them and highly recommend them.  However, since the main company doesn't actually make these ingredients, but only buys them from other companies, mixes them and then sells them for a ridiculous price, it is much cheaper to buy the ingredients separately and mix it your self.  Same results, but a 4 months supply for the price of one from that company.

Glad you are doing well.  Glyconutrients are great.

Duane
 

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Offline bahamamama

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #192 on: 01/04/2006 19:17:07 »
Just read this whole thread and was amazed at the negative responses to Duane!  He was always clear and succint in his posts.

Duane, I for one appreciate your candor and scientific responses.  I never thought you disliked glyconutrients, only the way they were being falsely marketed by a certain company.

I was surprised that you had to repeat this over and over and over again.

I'm heading over to curezone to see what else has been discussed.

Take care,

Julieanne
 

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Offline starslayer

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #193 on: 03/04/2006 07:54:04 »
In my opinion, Mannatech's supplements are worthwhile, however the way that they market these prodeucts gets them horrible press, due to greedy sellers who make false claims. I'm sure that many of the sellers are honest people who really are trying to make in difference, but if Mannatech would have just done a normal routine and marketed their products through GNC and such, they would be not have the bad press that they have today. The only reason for the bad press and sceptisism is the fact that they rely on network marketing, and have have so many sellers who want your money and nothing more.

The products do work, and the prices are rediculous, but hopefully sometime soon the will be an alternate solution that will educate people without being greedy or pushy.
 

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Offline bossless

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #194 on: 04/04/2006 03:50:03 »
Starslayer, I think you are missing the point.  It is the company, Mannatech, that has caused the problem by setting up a false premise of how their glyconutrients work.  Sure, you will have some bad apples in netrwork marketing as you do in all endeavors.  However, network marketing in and of itself is not the problem.  Sometimes it can be individuals letting greed get ahead of the truth that is the problem, but in this case it is the company that is the primary problem, not the product, network marketing, or the individuals, even though there is some mix of all of this.  If this product were placed in GNC with the same explanation of how it works it would be just as misleading as it is by a network marketing company.
 

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Offline marathoner

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #195 on: 23/04/2006 13:03:09 »
quote:
Originally posted by marathoner

Some who disparage glyconutrient supplements claim the saccharides are not assimilated.  However, radioactive tracer studies have shown oral ingestion of mannose leads to cellular glycosylation:
 Alton G;Hasilik M;Niehues R;Panneerselvam K;Etchison JR;Fana F;Freeze HH;. Direct utilization of mannose for mammalian glycoprotein biosynthesis. Glycobiology. 1998; 8: 285-295.
And many studies show beneficial clinical effects of glyconutrient supplementation.



 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #196 on: 23/04/2006 16:36:53 »
You will note that the study that you list concerns "mannose".  The mannose in Mannatech's product is Acemannan, a beta-linked chain of Mannose molecules.  In order for the mannose to be absorbed, the Acemannan would haveto be broken down into individual mannose molecules, and your body does not make the enzyme to do that in your intestine.  

The micro-organisms in your large intestine can break it down, so that they can digest the mannose, and during this process some mannose may be absorbed, but the amount would be extremely small - if at all.  Most of it would be used by the micro-organisms and converted to Short-Chain Fatty Acids.  (which are beneficial)

However, the whole acemannan molecule is similar to the chains of saccharides on the cell walls of many micro-organisms, such as yeasts.  Your the acemannan binds to certain receptors in the intestine and your body reacts as if it has high levels of negative micro-organisms, stimulating the immune system.  

Short-chain fatty acids and stimulating immune system via receptors within your intestine are just two of the many, many mechanisms that can be shown to be working here.  Current research, however, does not support that the effects of these substances have anything to do with absorbing these sugars that your body can readily synthesize.

We don't disparage the supplement.  They do work.  We disparage the faulty explanation of their mechanism of action that was developed to sell the product.

If you go to glycoscience.com, and look at the two latest articles in their Glycoscience journal, many of these alternative mechanisms that we have been listing for the last year (or more) are now beginning to be addressed by this company.  I would not be surprised if eventually the 8 sugar hypothesis is dropped entirely as more of the actual research is published showing no effects of these supplements on glycoconjugates.

As we have said before, it works, just not how Mannatech is telling everyone it works.  AND, you can easily make your own with same or better benefits for a fraction of the price.  Just go to:

http://www.curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=223&i=2024

Duane
 

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Offline bossless

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #197 on: 26/04/2006 13:49:32 »
Duane, since this supplement works so well why doesn't some company provide a less expensive version similar to your homemade recipe without all the bogus marketing about the 8 sugars healing power?  Can you answer this?
 

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Offline loweduane

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #198 on: 27/04/2006 05:32:37 »
I don't know why.

I know that Mannatech is now suing Glycobiotics for patent infringement, so I think you will see less and less knock-offs.  One of the ways that these companies could avoid this would be to market their combination of ingredients with information on the actual mechanisms and not mentioning the 8 sugar hypothesis.

I have talked to some of the people who make some of these competing products, and shared with them the information about the faulty science of the 8 sugar hypothesis, and while they are very interested, and cannot find any evidence to support it, the 8 sugar hypothesis is very easy to market, and people are familiar with it...even if it is basically a lie.

I have never talked to one of the people at these companies that actually took the time to research the validity of Mannatechs claims before I informed them of the lack of scientific support.  They had seen the research listed by Mannatech's websites on the individual sugars and it never occurred to them that those sugars wouldn't be available from the ingredients Mannatech uses.

You will note, however, that Mannatech's glycoscience.com website has the "Glycoscience and Nutrition Journal" and that the last two articles listed in this journal are about the effects of these substances on the intestines, and the importance of probiotics.  Basically they reiterate the mechanisms that we have been stating for over the last year.  As more research comes out showing their 8 sugar hypotheses to be wrong, they will slowly shift towards the explanations we have been pointing out.  They have already started.  But they have to take it slow since their blind faithful will not take the change in explanation easily.  

Did that answer the question?

Duane
 

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Offline bossless

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Re: Usefulness of Glyconutrients
« Reply #199 on: 07/05/2006 02:51:21 »
I think you basically answered the question.  In one word it is ignorance.  Thanks.