Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism

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Offline deiscovery.com

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« on: 19/02/2008 18:59:50 »
It is our belief that the discipline of science has been hijacked by atheists and used to support atheistic beliefs.

It is our belief based on scientific method and empirical evidence; atheism cannot state that there is no God. It can only state "At this present time in human history we cannot prove with existing instruments of measurement and detection that there is or is not a God or a spiritual realm where he is suppose to exist.”

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Offline Soul Surfer

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #1 on: 19/02/2008 19:11:20 »
I do not agree with your suggestions many well known scientists have quite strong religious faith.

Your second expression is unnecessary.

I also suggest you must also accept that atheists are not excluded from religion because they are totally different things.
« Last Edit: 19/02/2008 19:13:11 by Soul Surfer »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #2 on: 19/02/2008 19:24:21 »
The discipline of science is robust enough that you can't hijack it to do anything. The idea that any hypothesis must be falsifiable is (thanks to Popper IIRC) included in most ideas of the scientific method. This excludes religion which, in general, is not falsifiable.
Of course, science can be used to show that some ideas which religion holds true are inconsistent with the universe as we know it.
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Offline deiscovery.com

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #3 on: 19/02/2008 19:33:40 »
My comments are based on the common idea that "To prove that God does not exist we will turn to science ..." 
I think this is unfair to science.

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another_someone

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #4 on: 19/02/2008 21:25:35 »
In the first instance, from a historic perspective, you cannot simply blame science for the conflict between science and religion - religious leaders did quite a bit to reject science and scientists.

I think from a purely philosophical perspective, one can reasonably argue that God cannot exist within the scientific model of the universe.  As Bored Chemist has said, the notion of God is not falsifiable, and so is not consistent with scientific doctrine.

The question that arises is whether one considers that the scientific description of the universe is an inherently incomplete description (not merely currently incomplete, but of necessity, inherently incomplete), and so leaving room for other philosophical doctrines (whether or not they include the notion of God) outside of science.

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Offline GBSB

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #5 on: 19/02/2008 22:10:31 »
Atheistic belief and non–atheistic belief is just belief.  The belief can’t be science because it isn’t fact but belief.

For atheistic and non-atheistic believer the only purpose of science is to strength their pre-existing belief.

On the other side many people are not religious but trying to believe without forcing another people to adopt their belief.

I think that belief is good thing if it is taken in moderation.



I'm an atheist and I thank God for it.”   ( George Bernard Shaw )

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #6 on: 19/02/2008 22:11:24 »
We must, though, bear in mind that there are certain areas where science takes on a psuedo-religious aspect. For instance, we will never be able to prove exactly what happened at the moment of the Big Bang, nor if anything existed prior to that moment. We can theorise, but those theories can only ever be a matter of faith. Yet faith should be reserved for religion and have no place in science. It is an unresolvable dichotomy.
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Offline JimBob

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #7 on: 19/02/2008 23:56:12 »
Is the fact that science has also been unfairly hijacked by religious zelots to prove their own ideas is acceptable? the idea that the earth has only existed since October 23, 4004 BC. and that the accounts - differencing in the details - in Genesis, are the ONLY interpretation of the way life was created is blatant nonsense. What is time to God? What is a day in His measure? Billions of years? Or an hour?

The pseudoscience of creationism that is being insisted on being taught along side traditional science is as much voodoo to me as science is to you. And I was raised hardshell Southern Baptist and believe in a Benevolent Creator.

As has been stated - belief is belief and science is science. They should not be mixed.
« Last Edit: 20/02/2008 00:00:34 by JimBob »
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Offline ?UNTURNED_STONE?

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #8 on: 20/02/2008 05:53:17 »
I myself being an atheist, do not link atheism with science i dont hink that science needs to be linked to God as science doesnt need to prove that god isnt there its a well known fact that there is no gigantic man in the sky!

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Offline angst

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« Reply #9 on: 20/02/2008 10:34:59 »
Is the fact that science has also been unfairly hijacked by religious zelots to prove their own ideas is acceptable? the idea that the earth has only existed since October 23, 4004 BC. and that the accounts - differencing in the details - in Genesis, are the ONLY interpretation of the way life was created is blatant nonsense. What is time to God? What is a day in His measure? Billions of years? Or an hour?

The pseudoscience of creationism that is being insisted on being taught along side traditional science is as much voodoo to me as science is to you. And I was raised hardshell Southern Baptist and believe in a Benevolent Creator.

As has been stated - belief is belief and science is science. They should not be mixed.


This, really, is the crux of it. The only real religious argument against science is that of the fundamental literalist. I don't think science is fundamentally anti-religious. As has been said belief is belief, science is science - they are seperate entities, neither one really impacting upon the other (except where literalist dogma prevails...)

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Offline JimBob

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #10 on: 20/02/2008 14:33:40 »
Yes, one of the fathers of the Western Church, " namely Augustine of Hippo, ... explicitly denie(d) any literal interpretation of the bible whenever it conflicted with science. Literal interpretation has at times even been considered heresy. Augustin: The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 1:19–20, Chapt. 19 [AD 408]."

Wikipedia quoted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptural_literalism

Findings of a poll conducted by the Southern Baptist Baylor Institute: 47.8% of evangelical Protestants, and 11% of Catholics and mainline Protestants answered that the Bible is literally true, and 9% of Jews answered the Torah is literally true. 6.5% of evangelical protestants and 20% of Catholics and Protestants responded that the Bible is a book of history and legends, and 52.6% of Jewish respondents responded that the same about the Torah.

ALSO:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_inerrancy)

There are over 5,600 Greek manuscripts containing all or part of the New Testament. Most of these manuscripts date to the Middle Ages. The oldest complete copy of the New Testament, the Codex Sinaiticus, dates to the 4th century. The earliest fragment of a New Testament book is the Rylands Library Papyrus P52 which dates to the mid 2nd century and is the size of a business card. Very early manuscripts are rare.

No two manuscripts are identical, except in the smallest fragments and the many manuscripts which preserve New Testament texts differ among themselves in many respects, with some estimates of 200,000 to 300,000 differences among the various manuscripts.[4] According to Ehrman,[5]
   "Most changes are careless errors that are easily recognized and corrected. Christian scribes often made mistakes simply because they were tired or inattentive or, sometimes, inept. Indeed, the single most common mistake in our manuscripts involves "orthography", significant for little more than showing that scribes in antiquity could spell no better than most of us can today. In addition, we have numerous manuscripts in which scribes have left out entire words, verses, or even pages of a book, presumably by accident. Sometimes scribes rearranged the words on the page, for example, by leaving out a word and then reinserting it later in the sentence."

The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline deiscovery.com

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #11 on: 20/02/2008 15:35:59 »
I think the knee jerk reaction is to come back at religion.  I am trying not to include religion (Christian) in the statement.  My belief is that Atheism claims scientific arguments or the lack of them for there stance that there is no God.

I think they should leave science out of their arguments.  We do not have any evidence, measurement or detection of "spiritual" entities or claimed places (angels, Holy Spirit, the anointing, heaven, hell) at this current time in history to prove or disprove God.  Atheism should just state that and leave science out of it's arguments.

I would like to stay on topic if possible...


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Offline JimBob

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« Reply #12 on: 20/02/2008 16:20:04 »
Atheism is as much a faith as Christianity is a faith and therefor should be included with Christianity in this discussion.

THUS - Science should remain neutral in any discussion of faith.



By the way, I used to live in Brockton when a child. 9 Hazel Street. An empty lot separated my dad's house from Rocky Marchegiano's. I played with his children. My dad was born there as were my sister and brother. I was given my first Bible on my fifth birthday at Warren Avenue Baptist Church. I still have it. It was a nice neighborhood then - late 40's.
« Last Edit: 20/02/2008 18:40:18 by JimBob »
The mind is like a parachute. It works best when open.  -- A. Einstein

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #13 on: 20/02/2008 19:38:32 »
An empty lot separated my dad's house from Rocky Marchegiano's. I played with his children.

 [:0]
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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #14 on: 20/02/2008 20:46:52 »
"Atheism is as much a faith as Christianity "
In the same sense that bald is a hair colour.

Strictly speaking, since I can't prove that there is no God, I ought to be described as agnostic on this matter.
Oddly, nobody describes me as agnostic when I say I don't believe in the tooth fairy, but my reasons for disbelief are pretty much the same. Equally, I don't know of anyone who describes a child's fear of the "monsters under the bed" as being a matter of religious faith.

Atheism is generally taken not just to mean the belief that there is no God, but a more general feeling that one only believes in things for which there is positive evidence.
As it happens, science generally does the same thing.
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Offline angst

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« Reply #15 on: 21/02/2008 10:27:47 »
"Atheism is as much a faith as Christianity "
In the same sense that bald is a hair colour.

Strictly speaking, since I can't prove that there is no God, I ought to be described as agnostic on this matter.
Oddly, nobody describes me as agnostic when I say I don't believe in the tooth fairy, but my reasons for disbelief are pretty much the same. Equally, I don't know of anyone who describes a child's fear of the "monsters under the bed" as being a matter of religious faith.

Atheism is generally taken not just to mean the belief that there is no God, but a more general feeling that one only believes in things for which there is positive evidence.
As it happens, science generally does the same thing.

Well, the Oxford English Dictionary defines atheism as; belief that no god exists. It is a belief - in as much as , it is a definite article of understanding held without qualitative evidence. The concepts of the tooth fairy and god operate on entirely different levels. There is a universe in which we live, and we ask questions as to the nature of our existence. One level. We take our children's teeth from under their pillows and replace them with money. Another level. If you had no reason or explanation as to how that money replaced the tooth, then you would have no real argument against the tooth fairy. It would, of course, be your right to not believe, but unless you could explain it by other means then it is only a belief in it's non-existence.

Agnosticism is the questioning of any such belief at the lack of evidence.

So, to the original poster, if you are upset with atheists 'hijacking' the scientific argument for their own purpose, then you have the argument against them. Science, in short, cannot be hijacked by atheists as it cannot definitively evidence the lack of god, anymore than it can definitively evidence the existence of such.
« Last Edit: 21/02/2008 11:15:11 by angst »

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Offline Soul Surfer

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Science has been unfairly hijacked by atheism
« Reply #16 on: 21/02/2008 20:32:24 »
All these arguments seem to loose the real point of a religion. As I see it the important thing about a religion is to help to decide how one should interact here and now on the earth with other people and the environment within which we live. It has very little to do with explaining how the universe originated and works which is best left to science.

I am an atheist in the sense that I do not believe that there is a force that is actually observing us and interacting to organise how things work and offering those who are good some sort of eternal life  (usually called a God).
However I do believe that the concept that there might exist a compassionate but stern person who oversees everything that I do and could sometime call me to account for my actions gives rise to a good model of how we should live with each other and the environment.  I am therefore a regular practicing Church of England Christian because that is the standard religion in the area within which I live.
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Offline Cooliorob

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« Reply #17 on: 01/04/2008 23:42:15 »
Religion and science have clashed throughout history, but why do we need to continue arguing about it? Science is science, religion is religion, and that's that. It's not a contradiction between the big bang and creationism, merely a different interpretation. As JimBob said, "What is time to God?" It seems like days and years is a human invention and maybe just a device used by God to dumb it down so we could understand.

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Offline angst

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« Reply #18 on: 03/04/2008 16:10:18 »
Religion and science have clashed throughout history, but why do we need to continue arguing about it? Science is science, religion is religion, and that's that. It's not a contradiction between the big bang and creationism, merely a different interpretation. As JimBob said, "What is time to God?" It seems like days and years is a human invention and maybe just a device used by God to dumb it down so we could understand.

Love the last sentence especially. All of our perceptions of the world might be viewed as a 'dumbing down' so we could understand....

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Offline Soul Surfer

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« Reply #19 on: 07/04/2008 18:03:43 »
Where do I fit into this?  I am a scientist and an atheist in that I do not believe in a god that organises the universe and offers you pie in the sky when you die. However I do believe in religion as a way of helping to decide how we interact with each other and the rest of the universe.  ie behave as if there was a loving and caring god who knows all your thoughts and actions and may call you to account for them.   I therefore regularly attend and support my local Church of England church.
Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!

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Offline Cooliorob

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« Reply #20 on: 16/04/2008 22:15:17 »
I am a scientist and a christian!  It's not a big deal. Religion is a set of personal beliefs that shouldn't get in the way of science. (thus back to the original topic... sort of)

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #21 on: 17/04/2008 14:36:19 »
An athiest cannot prove there is no god, as a religious person cannot prove there is a god. But an atheist believes there is no god based on the fact that to them it seems incredibly unlikely there is a god considering the evidence they have observed.

Why should you be suprised that atheists use science to support their beliefs, since it is science that provides the evidence they have observed to decide they do not believe there is a god in the first place???

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Offline GBSB

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« Reply #22 on: 17/04/2008 22:30:16 »

... Why should you be suprised that atheists use science to support their beliefs,...

In first place, the purpose of science isn’t to prove or disprove existence of God. On one side the atheists and on the other side the monotheists and polytheists misusing science to misled people.

By the way, I really can’t comprehend why someone trying to prove that God doesn’t exist.

Copernicus and Galileo have not proved that God doesn’t exist (it wasn’t their intention to prove or to disprove the existence of God) but they have proved that the church teaching about solar system is wrong.

If God exists, I believe, he isn’t angry on Copernicus and Galileo but I think that even today, many religious professionals are still angry on Copernicus and Galileo.



“I'm an atheist and I thank God for it.”    ( George Bernard Shaw )
« Last Edit: 18/04/2008 18:56:07 by GBSB »

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #23 on: 19/04/2008 10:18:05 »
Religion offers one explanation of life, that god created the universe and the life in it and makes everything the way it is. Science offers alternative explanations, for example big bang theory and darwin's theory of evolution. An atheist essentially decides that science offers the more plausable explanations, so of course an atheist will use science to support his beliefs, why would you expect otherwise??????????

One might as well say the bible or the koran is unfairly used to support religious beliefs
« Last Edit: 19/04/2008 10:22:45 by Madidus_Scientia »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #24 on: 19/04/2008 17:16:40 »
For the record

I believe that the Earth provides sustenance, the force from the Earth drives all living things, powers the Worlds Ocean Currents, drives the weather and takes care of our corpses when we die. I also believe that it is highly probable that the atoms that composed our body will decompose and recompose many countless billions of times, some of which will eventually end up on another planet and may even end up as part of another humanoid who will be typing these exact same words on a keyboard exactly the same as my own on a forum with the equivalent title to ours in some unknown or maybe identical tongue to ours here on this amazing planet.  Let Me Hear You Say Yeah

Andrew K Fletcher
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #25 on: 20/04/2008 08:12:25 »
I would say the sun provides all sustenance.

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #26 on: 21/04/2008 19:04:50 »
You could be correct, however a more accurate interpretation would be that the sun provides the energy that helps the Earth to Provide Sustenance
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline johnbrandy

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« Reply #27 on: 22/04/2008 07:45:32 »
Atheism is merely a point of view. Science is a point of view. There is good science and bad science. An atheist or a scientist can draw upon either. What is good science or bad science is a matter of opinion. Therefore the substance of either position or argument is the key. Yet the "science" of God, is clearly subjective and the science of physics, biology, geology, chemistry, and so forth is objective. Science does not necessitate a belief in a God, nor does science, of necessity, discount a belief in God. Similarly, atheism does not,of necessity, draw upon scientific knowledge to justify its claims. Atheism cannot diminish scientific understanding because atheism is categorically distinct. All science is provisional, therefore atheism, grounded is science, is provisional, and subject to the purview of science. As such, atheism cannot threaten legitimate  science.   
« Last Edit: 22/04/2008 17:16:43 by johnbrandy »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #28 on: 22/04/2008 20:33:31 »
is "bad science" science?
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Offline Cooliorob

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« Reply #29 on: 23/04/2008 22:47:38 »
There is something more to humans, however, than just atoms randomly configured due to certain properties!  I agree that the earth is amazing, but for a different reason than you think, Andrew.  I think of it as art... friggin huge art...
« Last Edit: 23/04/2008 22:49:43 by Cooliorob »

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #30 on: 24/04/2008 11:41:53 »
what's random about it?

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Offline Cooliorob

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« Reply #31 on: 30/04/2008 22:28:27 »
bad word, sorry... but still!

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Offline johnbrandy

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« Reply #32 on: 01/05/2008 04:47:43 »
Re: Bored chemist, "is 'bad science' science?" The answer depends upon your point of view; your qualifications to evaluate what is presented, whether the material, premises and conclusions are consistent with established scientific principles, concepts, or theories, or if the methods used are correct, and properly applied, verifiable and repeatable. If sound and established methods are incorrectly applied, such that the experiment or study lack internal coherence, that might constitute bad science. Certain distinctions must be addressed. Bad science can be a sincere attempt, fraught with unintentional mistakes, incomplete or obsolete data. Conversely, bad science, employing establishes principles, concepts, methods, or theories, can be deliberately misapplies in order to deceive, so as to "produce" a particular, and favorable result. Therefore the question, "is 'bad science', science", appears to me to be conditional. Differently stated, "is 'bad science' science", depends upon the particular scientific experiment, principle, concept, or theory, and how each is applied or interpreted, and whether they conform with established scientific and experimental methodology. Perhaps the best question should be, "what is good science?" Thank you for allowing me to participate.       
« Last Edit: 01/05/2008 05:38:47 by johnbrandy »

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Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #33 on: 17/05/2008 13:09:27 »
Have to agree with BC on this, there is no such thing as bad science. Limited knowledge for the times is understandable as this drives progress. To call this bad science is not gracious. To accept that this was the best description and understanding at the time is more appropriate. However, to continue accepting a paradigm that has been invalidated simply because you cannot accept that you were wrong to begin with is not science either and you are no longer a scientists should you choose to ignore more compelling evidence.

RE: Coolio and Art.
Are you an artist or a scientist? Art tends to draw the eye away from the details and look at the whole picture, whereas science tends to draw the eye closer to the details. Finding a happy medium somewhere between the two is a perfect marriage.
is "bad science" science?
There is something more to humans, however, than just atoms randomly configured due to certain properties!  I agree that the earth is amazing, but for a different reason than you think, Andrew.  I think of it as art... friggin huge art...
Science is continually evolving. Nothing is set in stone. Question everything and everyone. Always consider vested interests as a reason for miss-direction. But most of all explore and find answers that you are comfortable with

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Offline SFMA

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« Reply #34 on: 20/05/2008 22:11:40 »
While science is ever developing we haven't reach the end yet. Until
we do so the final discovery is unknown. So there is unknown fact. Therefore
we can't say that we know everything. God being the Creator of everything how
can we finalise His existence in relation to the creation when there is a lot of unknown things. 

We cannot be definite about God in either way this proposition is consistent with science. We can believe about Him. Religion is about believe.   

What we don't know is seems more real then what we know.
No one knew about Internet just a few century ago. 

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Offline SFMA

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« Reply #35 on: 31/05/2008 17:16:09 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #36 on: 31/05/2008 17:27:59 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.

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Offline SFMA

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« Reply #37 on: 09/06/2008 10:11:55 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.
This is my belief.

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #38 on: 09/06/2008 11:50:00 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.
This is my belief.

If that's the kind of thing that convinces you then you're welcome to it. I would rather believe or not believe in things based on evidence and reason.

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Offline SFMA

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« Reply #39 on: 09/06/2008 12:21:21 »
We cannot discover God unless He allows it to happen. It's His credit.
He is in total cntrol of His identity!
How convenient.
This is my belief.

If that's the kind of thing that convinces you then you're welcome to it. I would rather believe or not believe in things based on evidence and reason.
There is more than enough evidence that we do not know everything. While we are trying to digest atoms now we discovered dark matter. That's yet to be learned. When can you make sure that there won't be any other dark matter at the end of it? It's clear the truth is unfolding gradually. What is keeping the ballance these all are signs of a very well capable superior Being who is beoynd any given space and time. But present in it as well as we go along and learn more. 

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #40 on: 09/06/2008 12:31:53 »
"What is keeping the ballance these all are signs of a very well capable superior Being who is beoynd any given space and time."

That's the jump that Madidus and I are refusing to make.  Certainly there are things we don't know and don't fully understand, but that doesn't mean we should invent a god to fill the gaps.

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Offline SFMA

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« Reply #41 on: 09/06/2008 13:05:00 »
That's the jump that Madidus and I are refusing to make.  Certainly there are things we don't know and don't fully understand, but that doesn't mean we should invent a god to fill the gaps.
What we don't know it could be anything. It could be God as well.

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #42 on: 09/06/2008 13:07:14 »
And it could be a giant pink monkey with wings, or a kitten, jellyfish, piece of cheese, computer simulation, halibut, novelists imagination, garden hose...

There is as much justification for thinking that the gaps in our knowledge are explained by a massive wheel of brie as by a god.

Are you a Brie-liever?
« Last Edit: 09/06/2008 13:09:59 by BenV »

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Offline SFMA

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« Reply #43 on: 09/06/2008 13:27:45 »
And it could be a giant pink monkey with wings, or a kitten, jellyfish, piece of cheese, computer simulation, halibut, novelists imagination, garden hose...

There is as much justification for thinking that the gaps in our knowledge are explained by a massive wheel of brie as by a god.

Are you a Brie-liever?
It could be more than the best possible existence that you could imagine.

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #44 on: 09/06/2008 13:38:45 »
I'm not sure I understand that comment.  What could be more than the best possible existance I can imagine?

I was trying to point out that to some people, such as myself, suggesting that all the gaps in our knowledge can be explained by a god seems ridiculous.  As ridiculous as suggesting they are explained by cheese must seem to you.

As it happens, I much prefer the Buddhist idea that there is no external god, but that you should meditate upon how you could be the best possible you, and then strive to be that person.  This seems more sensible to me than following a set of rules written in an old book.

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #45 on: 09/06/2008 13:50:48 »
Quote
It could be more than the best possible existence that you could imagine.

Wishful thinking, would be lovely if it were true, but i'd rather have the best possible existence in my current form instead of wasting time hoping to have a better existence in another

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #46 on: 09/06/2008 13:57:46 »
Quote
It could be more than the best possible existence that you could imagine.

Wishful thinking, would be lovely if it were true, but i'd rather have the best possible existence in my current form instead of wasting time hoping to have a better existence in another


Well said.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #47 on: 09/06/2008 21:00:56 »
BenV  re.
"And it could be a giant pink monkey with wings, or a kitten, jellyfish, piece of cheese, computer simulation, halibut, novelists imagination, garden hose..."
 you missed at least one important possibillity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_Monster
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #48 on: 09/06/2008 22:10:01 »
Indeed, but I thought that too plausible, and I was trying to be ridiculous.

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Offline johnbrandy

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« Reply #49 on: 14/06/2008 08:31:14 »
The history of intellectual knowledge and discovery absolutely demonstrates that all knowledge is provisional, therefore we cannot be sure if our present knowledge is viable, let alone the so-called gaps in this knowledge. What is knowledge anyway? "Facts", opinions, evidence, consensus, truth. Some of our knowledge may be solid and reliable. Some of our knowledge may be provisional, and likely to change. We cannot be certain, in either case. God is not at issue here. Knowledge of God, if plausible, is a self-evident reality, and therefore subject to individual interpretation and understanding. I would expect that such genuinely enlightened individuals would have much to report about the exact nature of reality in its various forms. Science is a point of view, and does not pretend to absoluteness. The fact that science has inherent limits, and thusly results in logical gaps, does not indicate or imply these gap, and their cognizance, fall within the exclusive domain of a divinity. Further, why should we assume that it is even possible to know "everything", in scientific terms, or any other? What standard, system, doctrine, discipline, science, religion, philosophy, or point of view, can reasonably justify this claim? To assert that it is possible to eventually answer and comprehend every scientific question, is to argue a degree of insight into the validity and perfection of scientific methodology's, hitherto unknown.
« Last Edit: 15/06/2008 02:49:25 by johnbrandy »