Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?

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Offline Observer

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #50 on: 23/06/2009 21:53:24 »
"And then you said that, in that post, you had said something else; but you hadn't.
Why did you do that?"


Sorry dude, you lost me here...

"Why did you make up the strawman?"

Do you mean this strawman?

"All cases of remission of any disease always happen shortly after something. It doesn't make sense to ascribe the remission to that thing. That's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. That's before you look at the placebo effect (which is a lot more powerful than most people realise)."

That, I'm afraid, was your clever deduction.


"Why the ad hom attacks?"

These are no attacks. You mustn't take things personally if someone tells you that they don't think you have all the answers. You don't have to feel attacked if some people are not willing to swallow some of those ridiculous comparisons and illogical pathetic deductions.

I don't understand why you feel so obligated to have all the answers. Let us leave it at that though because I also stated (in my first post) that I didn't want to offend anybody with my views and above all Peace...

So to sum things up:


- Nothing personal - just strong disagreement with your arguments.

- I would like to post my own experience. Hey who knows maybe I will fall flat on my face and you can in the end say I told you so...

- I don't have the answers I am still searching

If this thread is the wrong platform for what I am doing then someone other than the Bored chemist (again not personal but I think you may be biased) please tell me so and I will quietly and peacefully leave the scene. [:-\]



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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #51 on: 23/06/2009 22:19:08 »
"Sorry dude, you lost me here..."
Then you should be paying attention.
You said this "It would seem though that you are not capable of taking in information otherwise you wouldn't continuously ask me for the answers (that I like you don’t yet have) or what I want which I stated in my very first post."
and it isn't true because you didn't say, in your first post anything of the sort.




I already pointed out what the strawman was.
It was this.
"So you are saying that all drugs that are being marketed owe their success in either the placebo effect or are just the so called post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy? Mmmm."

As I pointed out, I didn't say that so, to put this forward as my opinion and then atack it is a strawman argument.

I already asked you not to do it again. Why did you?


As for the ad homs
"These are no attacks. You mustn't take things personally if someone tells you that they don't think you have all the answers."
The issues I raised that is "You may be a lab assistant " and "It would seem though that you are not capable of taking in information " were personal.
Since I made it perfectly clear that those were the issues I was refering to it's yet another strawman for you to say "You mustn't take things personally if someone tells you that they don't think you have all the answers".
Even if you don't think that's personal surely you must understand that describing my obervations as "illogical pathetic deductions" is a personal attack.

I keep asking why you say things that are not true and you simply don't answer.
What does that say about your claim to be objective?

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Offline Observer

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« Reply #52 on: 24/06/2009 08:11:24 »
Bored chemist wrote:

“Most potential treatments don't get tested.
As far as I know nobody has ever tested rectally administered fishpaste, for example, as a cure for malaria. Nor has a double blind trial been done on blood letting by a leather clad virgin at the full moon.”



I am sorry but in my book this is just ridiculous and not relevant at all to the topic of discussion.

Bored chemist wrote:

“If this stuff killed malaria, then malaria would be extinct. Malaria isn't extinct therefore the stuff doesn't work.”

In my opinion this is an illogical incorrect deduction period.

Bored chemist wrote:

I work in a lab; I know what lab results can show and I also know what they cannot show. They cannot (on their own) show cause and effect.

This might lead one to believe that you may be a lab assistant. I recall also seeing a picture of you with a lab coat. If this is not the case I apologize for my implication although I did say “you may be a lab assistant”.


This is a quote from my first post:
"I am new here and do not wish to offend anyone with my views. I am also presently using mms for hep c and from what I have read about Interferon I don't think I have made a bad choice. I will post my experience, be it good or bad, based on lab results before and after therapy.
Peace..."

In that post I clearly state:
I am new here and do not wish to offend anyone with my views
I will post my experience, be it good or bad, based on lab results before and after therapy.
Peace...

Just for you Bored chemist so that you finally understand what I want:
I am new here and do not wish want to offend anyone with my views
I will want to post my experience, be it good or bad, based on lab results before and after therapy.
[I want] Peace...
« Last Edit: 24/06/2009 12:32:50 by Observer »

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Offline stereologist

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #53 on: 24/06/2009 13:41:15 »
The issue of MMS has been discussed in many forums. The issue boils down to claims being made by the sellers that are not substantiated. Instead the sellers make claims and point to poorly or unrelated information to sell their wares. This matter could be simplified if the proponents of MMS would simply point to a study in which MMS is tested. This would be a properly run study, i.e. statistically valid sample size, double blinded, etc.

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Offline Observer

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« Reply #54 on: 24/06/2009 14:09:14 »
I want to make it perfectly clear at this point that I am no seller nor am I pushing mms. I will also not try to defend treatment with mms or recommend it to anyone as I  have no basis to do so. On the other hand, I am open for alternative methods of treating hep c and all I can offer is results that may or may not turn out to be very disappointing. But, my experiment is not over yet...

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #55 on: 24/06/2009 19:39:09 »
Best of luck, but remember that a single observation, not even single blinded, isn't worth a lot in science.
A few tests on lab rats would carry a whole lot more weight.
Those tests would be cheap and easy.
As far as I can tell they have not been done.
There is clearly an enormous incentive to do this work. (There's more to life than patent rights the man who finds a cheap cure for malaria is going to be famous and there's also the amazing ability to be smug about it.)

Why hasn't someone made their name by doing this fairly simple test?
Do you accept that one reason- perhaps the simplest reason- is that they tried it, it didn't work and they didn't bother to publish their failure?

Incidentally,
Re. "I recall also seeing a picture of you with a lab coat. "
Where?
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Offline Observer

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« Reply #56 on: 24/06/2009 21:38:22 »
"Best of luck, but remember that a single observation, not even single blinded, isn't worth a lot in science."
Thank you and I realize this. I am really not trying to achieve anything scientific. It's more to the note of trying to find a cure for myself and logging my experience.

It can work both ways:

Either I am successfull and others may want to take the chance for themselves with all the risks involved.

or

I am not successfull and this fact can help those thinking about trying it to make the correct decision for themselves.

Where?
When I first entered this Forum right before I quoted you for the first time I recall looking at a profile and seeing a person with a white lab coat (For some reason I associated this person with you). I might very well have been looking at someone else as I was not familiar with the names here.



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Offline werewolf

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #57 on: 29/06/2009 14:17:53 »
In reading this discussion, I find it fraught with peculiarly non-scientific emotionalism for a website based upon science. Arguments here seem to be comprised of assumptions. For example, BoredChemist says that one proof that MMS does not work is that, if it did, malaria would have already been eradicated because it would be in widespread usage throughout the world. That presupposes that information flows unhindered by superstition, venal financial interests, political influences, etc., which is obviously not at all true. For example, two Australian doctors determined that ulcers were not caused by stress, but by the bacterium Helicopter Pylori. It took twelve years for that information to reach critical mass in the medical community. That means that for 11 3/4 years, there were doctors still performing surgery on people with ulcers, still handing out the old ulcer remedies from the 1920's, rather than giving an antibiotic to kill the H. Pylori bugs and cure the ulcers. That same effect could be at work regarding MMS.

It has been said here that anecdotal evidence in the form of testimonials should be rejected, and only evidence resulting from proper double-blind clinical studies accepted. In an ideal world that would be true but in this world, research of that caliber is expensive and is usually only initiated by pharmaceutical companies that can profit from the results. Thus there is no financial incentive for testing non-patentable materials. Since that is the case, people searching for answers must use whatever means they can in gleaning information from all of the varied sources --some good, some bad-- out there.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #58 on: 29/06/2009 20:12:12 »
"A few tests on lab rats would carry a whole lot more weight.
Those tests would be cheap and easy.
As far as I can tell they have not been done."
Political and financial interests can work both ways.
The experiments give the real annswer.

H pyloris took a long while to be accepted, but in the end it was (and the matter isn't as clear as you make it look.  The bacterium was found in people who didn't have ulcers so the evidence was that the bug did not (on its own) cause ulcers. The doctors may be conservative, but they are not stupid)

There is good, strong evidence which proves that this magic cure can't be real- it still works after you have destroyed it by reaction with apple juice (specifically with the vitamin C).

Do you understand that?
It's scientific proof that this stuff cannot work as described. The stuff is just a pinch of salt by the time people take it.

Once you add the fact that the purveyors of this quackery are the same ones who tried to fob off HIV/AIDS sufferers with  a toxic industrial solvent (DMF) as a cure I really don't think it would be ethical to sacrifice the rats.

OK, so I do get angry about this sort of thing- not with the people who have posted here, but with the snake oil salesmen- no, better yet, let's call them by the proper name, fraudsters- who try to con people, who are generally poorly placed to afford it, out of their hard earned cash. If that emotion comes through then all I can hope is that you are all reasonably understanding.
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Offline Observer

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« Reply #59 on: 20/07/2009 22:04:28 »
I just wanted to check back in and say that I am still alive and that I feel great. I am intentionally not mentioning the details of how much mms I am taking nor how often I take it though I am keeping notes. I hope to post the next lab results by mid August.   

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Offline crm114

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« Reply #60 on: 15/08/2009 14:44:38 »
Hello Observer,

like you I am looking for non-interferon treatment for HepC and with some degree of scepticism embarked on a course of Sodium Chlorite.
I have been taking this since Jan 2009 with short breaks in between. I can report that my AST, ALT and viral load numbers are dropping
consistently over the last 3 blood tests. Prior to this they had been escalating. I do not have the exact figures to hand as I am working
overseas but shall post them when time allows. May I ask what Genotype you have your viral load and what if any other treatment you have
received ? Not sure if this board allows PM'ing but feel free to do so if you wish, I have some other info on non pharma treatments which
are showing positive results.

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Offline Observer

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« Reply #61 on: 19/08/2009 13:03:09 »
Hello CRM114,
it is good to hear from someone else with some positive feedback. At this point little can be said about the effectiveness of our personal mms experiences, nevertheless something is happening and at this point seems to be an overall improvement. When I got my first and second lab test the Genotype /viral load was not included. I will have to ask specifically for these counts prior to the next test. It is unfortunate that I don't have a possibility of comparing the viral load at this point. I just returned from beautiful a Norwegian vacation and have not made my next lab appointment. I will post the next results thereafter. I did drop the frequency to which I was self-administering the mms drastically to avoid a possible imbalance of my oxidant/antioxidant intake.
I found an interesting weblink that may be of general interest:

newbielink:http://www.gesundheitlicheaufklaerung.de/mms-eine-ganzheitliche-therapie [nonactive]
The report is German but maybe I can find an English translation...



« Last Edit: 19/08/2009 13:23:51 by Observer »

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Offline tracar

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #62 on: 23/08/2009 05:10:56 »
WOW this thread has gone from great intentions to bitchfest 2009 wtf..
Bored chemist might now his sh1t but is always referencing someone elses work
on the other hand Observer is dooing what i wish everyone would do a bit more (hands on) and in the future
this is exactly what Bored chemist will reference.

so great job Observer and hope you find at least a neutral to a positive result.

after that said . make sure we all wash our hands clean of all the sh1t, after all these public spankings
and get to the point.

results.

edumication : grade 9
occufication : dooer
« Last Edit: 23/08/2009 05:15:07 by tracar »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #63 on: 23/08/2009 10:47:18 »
I note with mild ammusement that you have chosen to comment on other people's stuff, but not to do any work of your own; a bit like someone who "might know his sh1t but is always referencing someone else's work " .
Meanwhile you commend Observe for valliantly wasting his time in spite of the fact that the "miracle cure" cannot work becaue the "active" ingredient is destroyed too rapidly.

An odd choice for a first post here.
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Offline tracar

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« Reply #64 on: 23/08/2009 16:19:09 »
sure thing crazy literal robot man.. its a great thing you were not there to tell our grand parrents they couldn't (do that) and who said anything about a cure, i didn't. but for interests of my own , i would like (your) definition of "cure" and also your definition of a "positive result" not a cut and paste from wikipedia.

and like the meds for Gout :
NSAIDS
colchicine
corticosteroids
ACTH
allopurinol
probenecid

these are by no means a "cure" but if they do have a positive affect or an individual acceptable outcome Great
so now the meds i have listed for the treatment of gout. do you consider any of them them the right choice?
and of those do they have a positive results?

FYI i don't believe in "miracle cure" just +pos "or" -NEG results 
and i wish i did more work of my own. and could be anal about it too
Observer, did i waste your time ???  i hope i didnt.
Bored chemist if you have something to say to me say it now ,so we all get back to the true topic

now you made a great comment bored :
("miracle cure" cannot work because the "active" ingredient is destroyed too rapidly)

1) question to you is this: what % is destroyed before the body can absorb the remainder .if only for a Minuit, say if taken orally (keep in mind this has nothing to do with anything else)

2)has naturally occurring ClO2 ever been found in any bloodwork

3)would you admit this magical mystical cureall ClO2 has to have some kind of magical mystical anti bacterial characteristics (say as a mouth wash/rinse)

4) whats your thoughts on ozone floating free in the home?

« Last Edit: 23/08/2009 18:39:34 by tracar »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #65 on: 23/08/2009 20:49:33 »
Palliative treatment is OK where there is no cure available as with gout but it's the 3rd best option after prevention and cure.
In the case of an acute infection like malaria the definition of a cure is pretty clear- the parasites are dead and the patient isn't. Did you really need me to explain that?

 
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Offline tracar

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« Reply #66 on: 23/08/2009 22:01:14 »
yes.
and im still waiting for some answers




edumication : grade 9
occupication : dooer

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Offline crm114

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« Reply #67 on: 24/08/2009 04:10:03 »
Hello Observer,

thanks for the link.
It would be interesting to know on what basis the claim is made that the active ingredient only kills "bad" parasites
but regardless of what ever tests have been performed to determine its efficacy, the proof of the pudding is in the
eating, and if it achieves the desired effect without inducing harmful side-effects then that is good enough for me.
Are you actually using the commercial product MMS or are you simply sourcing the chemical and producing your own medication ?
With how much and how frequently are you dosing ?

Although strictly not related to the current topic, the following link may be useful for HepC sufferers. It links to a medical
trial sponsored in part by non other than Roche, which is using IV Silibinin, the active ingredient in Mariendistel which is
well known anecdotaly to have beneficial effects upon liver disorders. If you (or any other interested persons) would like I
can send the trial results in pdf form.

newbielink:http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(08)01412-1/abstract [nonactive]

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Offline mootieman

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« Reply #68 on: 24/08/2009 15:55:59 »
I read all about MMS with interest! I have been using MMS in Africa for a number of things and while i cant tell you that thousands have been fixed i can tell you that i have used it to help more than 100 people now. It is very effective against Malaria but also as a general Cold and Flu presenter. The product has been so successful for us that we now manufacture it here and have many smaller rural clinics using it to help when people suffer from anything that relates to bacteria. Be warned it taste is terrible and it smells bad, but you can mix it with water to help get it down. It is extremely powerful and too much too fast will make you very sick so treat with care.

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Offline crm114

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« Reply #69 on: 24/08/2009 18:12:30 »
Hello Mootieman,

Interesting development.
Perhaps you can share with us a few more details of your experiences.
Where are you in Africa and in what capacity do administer MMS, are you working in healthcare ?
Do you keep records of your patients symptoms, treatment regimes and results.
If not, and its not too much trouble perhaps you can consider doing this.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #70 on: 24/08/2009 19:52:32 »
yes.
and im still waiting for some answers





edumication : grade 9
occupication : dooer


Your honesty in admitting to not knowing what "cure " means is remarkable and commendable.
I was in the process of posting a more detailed answer yesterday- but my computer crashed.
Anyway.
I haven't done any experiments on the kinetics of the reaction betwee en chlorite/ClO2 and, for example, ascorbate.
However I can point out the the people who wrote the article cited early on in this thread said that the stuff reacts quickly with things like thiols which are common on the gut.
Since the theory- as put forward- is not internally consistent so it clearly isn't science.
I don't need to do the experiments. They have been done for me. It's just that the people who did them didn't understand what the results meant.

I doubt that anyone has ever looked for ClO2 in blood.
I have an interest in natural products chemistry and I cannot think of a single instance of chlorine in a positive oxidation state anywhere in biology.
Obviously I can't claim to have looked everywhere but since you are the one putting forward the strange idea, it's you who has to prove it.

"would you admit this magical mystical cureall ClO2 has to have some kind of magical mystical anti bacterial characteristics (say as a mouth wash/rinse)"
Since magic doesn't exist the answer has to be no.
It might have a straightforward scientifically reasonable effect as an antibacterial- after all it is toxic so it might kill bugs.
The question of whether or not it kills bugs better than it kills people is another matter.

"whats your thoughts on ozone floating free in the home?"
Who cares?
Anyway, ozone smells and is rather toxic so, in general, this is something to avoid. However, it is a useful oxidant and I sometimes use it (at home). Some of it escapes into the air so I sometimes experience ozone floating round my home.
It doesn't seem to make much odds apart from a funny smell.



« Last Edit: 24/08/2009 19:57:50 by Bored chemist »
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Offline tracar

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« Reply #71 on: 25/08/2009 01:48:37 »
Wow. presumptuous and computer illiterate all in the same sentence. Were you driving when the crash happend??.
to me it sounds like you would rather demean someone than give (helpfull) advice

have you done any testing with CL02 yourself ,i will assume not.
I have done Many tests. and can say with confidence and without fear of someone trying to debunk my credibility (which isn't much)
that there are definitely benefits to an external use of "mms" as antiviral/antibacterial
and Definitely by testing (with myself) no negative results .

but there is still the excess in citric acid/vinegar/volume that some people can have a negative reaction to. (hypersensitive)/allergy.
cl02 itself. is well misunderstood, and with more open research i think it can do great things
here is an idea "time delay capsule intestinal release" or "saline IV low dose" anyone have a labrat to infect and test???? howbout Boredchemist lol jk.
all in good fun.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #72 on: 25/08/2009 19:52:40 »
Great!
Now all you need to do is replace that ad hom attacks with double-blind trials and you will be doing science.

As for "to me it sounds like you would rather demean someone than give (helpfull) advice"
I guess that depends on whether you think the following advice advice is helpful; don't waste your time on stuff that doesn't make any sense and where even the supporters of it say things that show it cannot work.

I also don't think that infecting rats then poisoning them with this stuff would be ethical.
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Offline tracar

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« Reply #73 on: 26/08/2009 01:32:42 »
we can all do RCT's  Yaaaaaaaaay!
Ethics. i would rather kill a rat for science than go to war.
but cool beans. back to topic
I have requested about some free labwork from a friend in calgary
based on bloodwork taken every 10 minits after dose CLO2 for duration of 60 minits . if show results will post.
full 10 drops twice daily  [xx(]/ Chemical Analysis to come [:P]


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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #74 on: 26/08/2009 07:01:12 »
"Ethics. i would rather kill a rat for science than go to war. "
Me too, but where's the science?
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Offline stereologist

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« Reply #75 on: 28/08/2009 01:10:07 »
Tracar what was your user name before you became a troll?

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Offline tracar

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« Reply #76 on: 28/08/2009 01:25:14 »
what kind of troll? you are a fable player right?

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Offline stereologist

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« Reply #77 on: 28/08/2009 03:08:31 »
What was your name on this forum before you became a troll?

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Offline tracar

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« Reply #78 on: 30/08/2009 02:03:52 »
possibly a bored chemist.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #79 on: 20/10/2009 19:26:17 »
Sorry for the necromancy but I just found some information about Dr Rath who was cited earlier in this thread as an authority on the matter.
I'm sure that you will make up your own minds about his work.
http://www.generoom.net/features-story.php?id=58
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Offline StFual

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« Reply #80 on: 28/04/2010 16:23:35 »
Pardon the resurrection, but no one properly answered the question...

Yes, sodium chlorite does have healing "powers".

Consider WF10 and Oxovasin/Oxoferin:

WF10 (IV drug):
Contains the ions chlorite (4.25%), chloride (2.0%), chlorate (1.5%), sulfate (0.7%), and sodium (4.0%).
1 mL of WF10 solution contains 4.25 mg (63 μmol) of the active chlorite ion.

Oxovasin Active ingredient (diluted WF10, applied topically):
Produced from: 10.28mg sodium chlorite, 1.38mg sodium hypochlorite,
0.75mg sulfuric acid 69%, 0.6µg potassium chlorate,
0.37mg sodium carbonate – hydrogen peroxide (2:3),
1.09mg sodium peroxide

WF10 is in in clinical trials:

Development of WF10, a novel macrophage-regulating agent (PMID: 12054081).
Reduced recurrence of late hemorrhagic radiation cystitis by WF10 therapy in cervical cancer patients: a multicenter, randomized, two-arm, open-label trial (PMID: 15542165).
A phase II study to evaluate WF10 in patients with late hemorrhagic radiation cystitis and proctitis (PMID: 16169580)


With regard to oral chlorite, there is a gang of animal data in the ATSDR's Tox profile of Chlorine Dioxide and Chlorite.
newbielink:http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp160-c3.pdf [nonactive]

Limited information is available regarding health effects in humans following exposure to chlorine dioxide or chlorite (ATSDR link, p.55).  There is ONE cited case of someone eating 10 grams in an attempted suicide.

In animals, a variety of gastrointestinal infections can be controlled with "acidified sodium chlorite"; e.g. Salmonella and Campylobacter in chickens (PMID: 17169454, PMID: 12696692).  They also spray this stuff on a variety of meats to kill pathogens.

This whole Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) is fishy, in that WF10 is given IV.  If sodium chlorite was very active at a systemic level as an oral formulation, then this would be a clinical application.   I am very skeptical of any use for sodium chlorite outside of topical and GI infections, unless it is given IV.

Carry on or SHOW ME THE DATA....












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Offline Bored chemist

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #81 on: 28/04/2010 19:32:18 »
Interesting but unfortunately, apart from the website you cited which confirms these things are toxic I can't see any of the data. "PMID: 15542165" doesn't mean a lot to me because I can only see the abstract.
I'm inclined to wonder about this.
Did someone really do a trial and only look at "occurrence of late hemorrhagic radiation cystitis in cervical cancer patients"?

Or did they do the study, look at lots of outcomes and find the one that (by a fluke) is statistically significant?
Never forget that "at the 95% confidence level" means  that you get the wrong answer one time in 20; if you look at 20 things you have a good chance of getting one answer that's wrong.

It's also noteworthy that neither of the materials cited is a pure chemical.
If I did an experiment with eye of newt and aspirin as a cure for headaches and found it to work, would I be justified in saying the eye of newt worked?

There's one bit of your post I have to agree with; SHOW ME THE DATA.

By the way, if this therapy does work for this particular condition then that's nice to know. The original claims were that it cured things like malaria. No evidence has been put forward to support that.
« Last Edit: 28/04/2010 19:36:14 by Bored chemist »
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Offline StFual

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #82 on: 30/04/2010 17:53:03 »
I referenced peer-reviewed scientific articles. Please gain access (via a library) to the data BEFORE you draw conclusions. You have insulted the scientists, clinicians, and editors that took the time to write, review, and publish an experiment before you have even read it?  Claiming they as a group do not understand multiple comparison testing would indicate they are either too ignorant to perform a study or are unethical in their reporting.  That is just part of the issue, also note, the studies I referenced have been reviewed and replicated by different groups. 

I thought the questions were "Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?"  and "what it does do" and "disseminate some of the information about it".

Note that I have not found one clinical or scientific article supporting chlorate, chlorite, or tetrachlorodecaoxygen (oxd-chlorite) usage for treating maleria, multiple sclerosis, ALS, chronic fatigue, or fibromyalgia. 

In cases where something like MS or Chronic Fatigue was caused by a microbe, the concept is reduction of chlorate to chlorite ion by the pathogen COULD cause oxidative damage to the pathogen in the process (PMID: 19824635).  This is still CONCEPT, hence the patent.  There is no scientific studies/data to support the claims of the patent or use of MMS to treat such conditions.

However, back to the REAL question: Yes, sodium chlorite does promote healing.

I will not digress into formulation chemistry, but I assume you are well aware that active compounds are typically formulated before they are tested clinically.  The chemist that produced the clinical formulation indicate "Sodium chlorite (NaClO2, 15 mM) is equivalent to undiluted Oxoferin." and "Our data indicate that Oxoferin may be equated essentially with aqueous sodium chlorite." (PMID: 2921839).   Again, scientific peer-reviewed data.  I would pull the article to also review that data, but I do not read German.

Got data?  They do, I do, do you?

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Offline Bored chemist

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #83 on: 01/05/2010 13:14:20 »
Citing a reference is not the same as showing the data.
Also, I didn't draw a conclusion, I asked a few questions.
Would you care to answer some of them?
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Offline StFual

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #84 on: 04/05/2010 18:37:35 »
The study design you questioned was indicated in the title (...a multicenter, randomized, two-arm, open-label trial).  IF a study uses multiple comparisons and does not indicate or correct for it, it would be outright uneducated or unethical. 

When testing a null hypothesis, note that the probability (p-vale) of obtaining a result also indicates the probability of false-positives, but does not indicate if a result is a fluke or if a result is correct or incorrect.

Here are "free" scientific studies (i.e. no library card required) to further support my conclusion:

Application of Acidified Sodium Chlorite in the Drinking Water to Control Salmonella serotype Typhimurium and Campylobacter jejuni in Commercial Broilers( newbielink:http://japr.fass.org/cgi/content/full/16/1/45 [nonactive]).  Actual data from this study showing decrease in Salmonella  and Campylobacter ( newbielink:http://japr.fass.org/cgi/content/full/16/1/45/T2 [nonactive], newbielink:http://japr.fass.org/cgi/content/full/16/1/45/T3 [nonactive]).  Yes, I realize that this is in chickens...

Development of WF10, a novel macrophage-regulating agent ( newbielink:http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:GsxrxFnDjPYJ:scholar.google.com/+Oxoferin&hl=en&num=50&as_sdt=10000000000000 [nonactive]).  A study of AIDs patients and the impact of chlorite on T-cells.  Google has a problem with the *.pdf conversion.  If you want the tables, get the *.pdf.  I will not post it due to copyright.

Reduced Incidence and Severity of Acute Radiation Mucositis by WF10 (IMMUNOKINE) as Adjunct to Standard of Cure in the Management of Head & Neck Cancer Patients ( newbielink:http://www.mat.or.th/journal/files/Vol90_No.8_1590_9639.pdf [nonactive]).  It appears to reduce inflammation associated with cancers therapies.

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Offline Farmer

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #85 on: 28/08/2010 05:47:32 »
Hello all... I'm new here, but caught this thread about the Sodium Chlorite or MMS by Jim Humble.. 
 I'm not rich in the brain department like so many of you here, but I can tell you straight about my experience with taking the MMS.. 
 It started about 2 years ago..I fell very ill and ended up in a wheel chair because I was so weak that I just couldn't get around, the doctors told me that I had end stage HCV with chronic kidney failure and Asides due to a blockage in my portal vein.. They basically told me that I had 6 months or less to live and to go home and be with family and friends as they could do nothing for my terminal disease and condition...
 I'm thankful that my wife got some info over the inter net, and soon I was taking the MMS, it took me about a week to work up to 5 drop doses, but from that point I started taking it once an hour for 8 hrs a day...3 months later I was jogging around the block with my dog...
  Now that's not bad for an ole' man like myself, I am still thanking the Lord for leading me to this simple chemical solution...
  I am not totally renewed...as I still have to take diuretics and I still take MMS every week now..but I appear quite normal and am quit active...
  I don't know about all the chem. talk of this or that...but for what it's worth... I'd simply say that if you are down to facing deaths door... you won't be disappointed with what MMS does...
  I do know, that if someone is not sick or have any real illness,that they can take MMS and it does not do anything... but to others that has ill health issues, it is truly a miracle to what it does.. 
« Last Edit: 28/08/2010 05:50:33 by Farmer »

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Offline gratefulme

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #86 on: 01/09/2010 00:33:09 »
Hello all, I'm a user of MMS, here's my story: Several years ago, I was diagnosed with IBS (irritable bowel syndrome). Within a year of receiving that diagnosis, I was experiencing chronic vomiting, horrible diarrhea, terrible depression, etc. from constantly being ill. As my health continued to deteriorate I went down the long path of trying to identify the foods to eat/not eat, what to drink/not drink, what medicines to take/not take, while continuously undergoing several doctor-ordered tests, all to no avail.
 
After five long years of dealing with IBS, I started to experience other health problems with almost every organ and tissue in my body. I was then diagnosed with Grave’s disease, with T3 & T4 levels at triple the normal levels. As I slowly battled these additional health problems, I continued to search for the reasons behind them, not wanting to take medication for a 'no-cure disease' for the rest of my life. As Grave’s is an autoimmune disorder, my research led me to look for something natural to boost the immune system, which eventually led me to MMS.
 
It seemed safe enough to try, but I thought I would just test it in the tub water first. I have had athlete's foot for about 30 years, on both feet, and after only one soaking, I noticed a difference, it had cleared up some. So I repeated the soaking a few days later, and it cleared up some more. And shortly after that, it disappeared completely! Not only that, it has not returned – it’s actually gone!

More research convinced me to give it a try internally, and I decided to detox the metals and pathogens out first. I went through the cleansing process as far as I could, for two days, with the usual diarrhea, pain, nausea, etc. that I had experienced daily from my IBS.  On the third day, I had severe diarrhea, and stopped the detox.

Once my system settled back down, I underwent the process again, and this time I stayed on it for several days, with no additional problems. My mornings slowly improved as my stomach and bowels began to return to normal, and I began to eat whatever I wanted, with no side effects! Much to my joy, each and every day my health improved!

A month later, I was scheduled for blood work, and a visit to see the doctor again for my Graves disease, and upon arriving I was pleased to hear that my T3 & T4 counts were now nearly at ‘perfect’ levels! My good health has continued to remain constant, those counts have remained at/near perfection ever since, and my intake of the drug prescribed by my specialist has now been reduced to only one half of the smallest dose available! My disease is finally under control!

On another issue, I am also happy to say that the day I started MMS, my 'annual cold sore' began to swell under my lip. As I went through two days of detox at that time, it seems to have driven that virus/pathogen from my body as well, as that cold sore never did break the surface -- and there has been no sight of it ever since!

I now take MMS at least twice a week, or more if my Grave’s issues act up, and I can honestly say I haven't felt this well in years! I am mobile again, I am sleeping again, and I am eating again! Most importantly, I am also pain free! I have not had any issues with my IBS since I began this product, I have not thrown up since undergoing the first cleansing process, & I have not had any additional health concerns or problems, My continued good health is all the proof I need!

And now, after such great health improvements through using this product, can you imagine my disappointment when I read the recall issued by Health Canada, telling me to return it! For ten years I did what all the doctors told me to do, and more, but continued to only get sicker, and continued to develop even more health issues. And now, after having found something that controls the suffering I previously went through, I am being told to throw it away!

I cannot tell you how much this product has done for me; just know that I am thrilled to have it. After a decade of daily illness, and now almost a full year of good health, it has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to work for me.

There are times I forget to take it, and my Grave’s begins to act up again, but just one or two doses bring everything back to normal again. I know that I need to continue taking this product in order to control my health, and am willing to fight strongly against this recall. I want legal access to this product for my own medical use. To remove MMS from the market infringes on my rights, and also leaves me open and vulnerable to more health problems. I have an autoimmune disease, and this recall denies me the right to use a product that has already proven to work better for me than anything else available!

The recall appears to be ignoring the obvious success of this product. There are thousands of users who, like me, searched out their own health care when our own doctors and scientists failed us, and found our own answers! The disappearance of both my herpes virus and my athlete's foot is just one of the testimonies of it's power, and one that the entire medical establishment haven't even offered to sufferers of either affliction -- they'd rather send us home with expensive creams & ointments that don't really work, & ignore it (hint: there's no money in MMS!)

We must not loose the right to choose what we want to put into our own bodies, especially when that choice has already proven to aid in the healing processes. We all deserve the right to choose, and I choose MMS & good health over what I went through ANY DAY!

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Offline Bored chemist

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #87 on: 01/09/2010 20:20:07 »
Just remember; the plural of anecdote is not evidence.
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Offline Lor

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« Reply #88 on: 05/09/2010 05:50:57 »
my mother caught head lice as a child(circa 1940) and had her hair washed with kerosene  by her mom.yes it killed the lice, would you do that today? nooo.
I'm with Bored Scientist- ive read this thread and trust in his responses.
theres a BIG difference between homeopathic treatments and snake oil salesman.I believe in natural cures that are relatively safe but will not use or take anything new and unproven-new drugs from drug companies included.
When i die, the last thing i want to say is 'unquote'

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Offline Bored chemist

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #89 on: 05/09/2010 11:09:44 »
"theres a BIG difference between homeopathic treatments and snake oil salesman."
Really?
What is it?
Snake oil doesn't work, and nor does homoeopathy.
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Offline Lor

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« Reply #90 on: 05/09/2010 12:03:30 »
I'm not sure why you're debating what i said since i agree with your basic view on that malaria cure. Hhomeopathy and snake oil salesman arent necessarily  mutually exclusive.There are many homeopathic/natural/herbal remedies that have much merit. a snakeoil salesman sells things with unwarranted medicinal claims;deceiving practices,for ailments it has absolutely no  positive effect on. in the past, 1800's for instance cocaine,morphine and alcohol sold in all sorts of medicinal concoctions with wild unasserted claims.
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Offline BenV

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« Reply #91 on: 05/09/2010 15:32:16 »
...There are many homeopathic/natural/herbal remedies that have much merit...
No, there are natural and herbal rememdies that have much merit - don't fall into the trap of including homeopathy in with them.

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Offline rosy

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #92 on: 05/09/2010 17:16:51 »
For anyone who thinks (as many do) that "homeopathic" is a synonym for "herbal", see the wikipedia article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#High_dilutions

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Offline Bored chemist

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #93 on: 05/09/2010 19:02:41 »
Jazzderry,
let's be quite clear about this .
Not only does homoeopathy not work, but there is no way in which it could work.
There's just nothing there in homoeopathy "remedies". The "active" ingredient was diluted out of existence.

The chlorite stuff is bollocks, but at least they are claiming that "some stuff has an effect" rather than "stuff that's not there any more has an effect".

Homoeopathy should only turn up on scientific website when we are making jokes.

http://xkcd.com/765/
« Last Edit: 05/09/2010 19:05:25 by Bored chemist »
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Offline JAB

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #94 on: 10/09/2010 05:18:47 »
Does the sodium chorite solution have healing powers?  Yes, it does, plain and simple.  Is it the miracle cure for malaria, cancer, AIDS, Hep c, etc. I don't know.  That has yet to be determined.  There are people out there who claim to have been desperate enough to try it and claim it worked for them. I am happy for them.  I guess it's possible that all those thousands of positive posts I have read over the years could have been fabricated by liars. Just "bored" people with nothing better to do. 
  I have found it works well on athletes foot and other rashes quite well.  I brush my teeth with it weekly and my dentist scratches his head every six months.  I had an opportunity to test it against over the counter products on two identical burns.  The sodium chlorite  treated burn never blistered and was healed in less than half the time as the other.  That's my experience.  I will keep a bottle of the stuff around as long as it works for me.  It is being studied and I believe in time it will become more accepted.  Here is a study where it was used with some success on dogs.
newbielink:http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=141749&pageID=1&sk=&date= [nonactive]

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #95 on: 10/09/2010 07:23:13 »
The stuff will act as a simple disinfectant. Treating surface infections is one thing; treating systemic infections is another matter.
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Offline Farmer

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« Reply #96 on: 03/10/2010 06:53:19 »
As I said above, I'm not overly bright, so I hope that you guys will know what I am trying to say, even though I explain things poorly at times..
 Another treatment that I am doing is the ozone IV's with the Sodium Chloride in the Saline solution that I use.  I think this is the same stuff that is used in MMS, not sure, but if so, then it's used for more things that just cleaning floors.
 Another thing that I caught above, is the deal about homopathy, [I should get a dictionary to look the meaning of that up, but it sounds like someone that stays at home or something...
 There's more to "Snakeoil" than just the salesmen who sells it... No jokeing, There are certain plants that has been used for hundreds of years by witch doctors, sharmans etc. in jungles, countries where they don't have local doctor offices to visit,
  These Witch doctors take care of all the health issued with their Tribes and over the generations passed down their treatments and cures..
 This is a matter of history of distant cultures, backwoods or jungle tribes.
 The Jungles has some pretty poisonous snakes, and one of the witch doctors "cures" for deadly snake bites in the Amazon's is a herb called "Jergon Sacha" which not only effectively stops the poison but helps to counter-act the swelling from the bite area.  Powerful stuff, so I've read...
  I did a lot of reading up on this not to long ago, and the more modern research that has been done on this herb, it contains over a hundred other chemicals within it, but it's been proven to stop the protease actions of the HIV and HCV and HBV. [viruses]
 Now those Witch doctors don't have labs etc..
 "Plants" [herbs] has a low line of intelligence about them, they grow and evolve with their own chemistry or chemical make up,
 ~I say "evolve" because some plants actually will change their chemistry if the climate or whatever brings around a new predator, like inscects, snakes etc. that attacks the plants..
[thus you find different species of the same plant in different areas],
~ they build in their own defenses with chemistry to ward off their local predators...  So it's easy enough to understand why a Witch doctor who wants to find a remedy for a poison snake bite, would find it within the same local area where the snake in question lives.. given a little trial and error... and bingo...a treatment.
 I read my eye balls sore for hours day in day out for awhile trying to find a cure for my disease with about every kind of herb that you can think about, and have probably taken a couple truck loads of herbs fighting the virus for awhile...but nothing overpowered the virus with herbs... not even Jergon Sacha... 
 Maybe those Witch doctors has an art to it, or perhaps they use the fresh plants whereas dried herbs won't work as well...don't know..
 This is my experience with "herbs"...they are helpful in many ways, but with major diseases.. it takes something stronger in my opinion.
 
 I use Sodium Chorite to make my own M.M.S. and if taken with the right doses, it does kill the pathogens in the blood the same as it does in water purification of pathogens, bacteria etc..
 It is a strong Oxidant... and this is where someone can get into trouble is they try hammer away too hard at fighting a disease without taking the time to "Protect" their body with Antioxidants in between daily dosing with MMS.  [been there done that too]
 There should be at least 2 to 4 hours separation between taking oxidants and antioxidants. 
 Taking too much oxidants opens a can of worms with free radicals, and if continued it can cause free radical damage. So~ though it is an excellent means to treat with, and to stimulate the immune responses, it is not a stand alone treatment protocol..
 
« Last Edit: 03/10/2010 07:11:24 by Farmer »

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Offline RD

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Offline BenV

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Does sodium chlorite have healing powers?
« Reply #98 on: 25/10/2010 20:02:33 »
Another thing that I caught above, is the deal about homopathy, [I should get a dictionary to look the meaning of that up, but it sounds like someone that stays at home or something...
 There's more to "Snakeoil" than just the salesmen who sells it... No jokeing, There are certain plants that has been used for hundreds of years by witch doctors, sharmans etc. in jungles, countries where they don't have local doctor offices to visit,
  These Witch doctors take care of all the health issued with their Tribes and over the generations passed down their treatments and cures..
 This is a matter of history of distant cultures, backwoods or jungle tribes.

No no no no no no no! Again - homeopathy has nothing to do with herbal cures, plant extracts or anything that could remotely help.  Homeopaths do very well out of people lumping homeopathy (water or sugar pills) in with herbal remedies (which may well have beneficial active ingredients).

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Offline maffsolo

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« Reply #99 on: 25/10/2010 23:29:10 »
...There are many homeopathic/natural/herbal remedies that have much merit...
No, there are natural and herbal rememdies that have much merit - don't fall into the trap of including homeopathy in with them.

I am constipated is there an herbal remedies for that?  [::)]

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