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Assume they are aware of each other due to astronomy and often have observed each other through their respective telescopes. Of course, I do not mean they could each see the others laser light flash. Just that as they look thought their telescope they know the other was performing the exact same action at the exact same time to save the universe. Their knowing would seem to have overcome the information barrier.
Can we overcome the light speed information transfer barrier?
But i don't get it, how can they could both perform the same action at the same time and have knowledge of it when it would take 300 years for them to view any action either planet took
What?? I don't see how the light speed barrier is overcome at all. You said yourself there is no transfer of information
But they don't know, they assume. For all London or Capetown knows, Sydney could have been wiped off the planet before the ship arrived, leaving no one left to perform the act
Madidus,QuoteBut they don't know, they assume. For all London or Capetown knows, Sydney could have been wiped off the planet before the ship arrived, leaving no one left to perform the actYou are correct, but Capetown (Earth) will know due to the fact (planets original scenario) as they will see the universe begin to destruct, due to inactivity on the part of the remote planets
Not until the light from the event has reached them
e task is to send a message to a planet 100 light years from earth and another 200 light from earth. They are separated from each other by 300 light years. They must receive the message at exactly the same moment and perform an identical action to save the universe from destruction. The light speed constant of 300 000 kilometers applies.
The other two planets will have to wait 100 and 200 light years or years to watch and observe if earth goes nova or not.If this is not information transfer and do not know what is.
Whether the far planet decides to do it or not, if they sent a signal to the other planets instantly saying yes or no, they would know of its intentions just as fast or faster than they would otherwise be able to figure out through deductive reasoning anyway.
For the original thought experiment to be valid you have to have a method of instantaneously "destroying" the universe at all places simultaneously. Such a process is impossible.The thought experiment is therefore an invalid thought experiment.
Assuming the universe could do the impossible and destroy itself in one huge implosion. All three planets would know or not know the success or failure of the urgent message in one blinding flash, 203 years and 8 minutes after the first message to planet A.
I think your point is that we can "synchronize" two different planets with us. This is true, but we can only assume everything worked out how it was supposed to. We won't know until we actually get information, which happens at the speed of light
What I am trying to convey , yes we can not send information faster than light speed. But there might be a universal mean time , just like GMT. Time is not confined to the speed of light is it? Syngronising clocks on world remote from each other is not impossible
Just accepting for the moment that the concept is a valid thought experiment To what precision do you wish the two events to be synchronised?
Even thinking of a "speed of time" is a major misconception. In addition, there can't be a universally "correct" time since clocks end up measuring time differently when they're moving. Finally, since space and time are all bound up, you can't even really specify what it would mean for those two planets to send their signals out simultaneously: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity .
hpwever I don't see quite what you are getting on about because nothing about what you hasve already suggested implies any communication faster than light
You may be getting precisely timed actions happening between two places that could not have communicated but it is you who are instigating the actions and not either of the two places that could not have communicated
Again you are correct the two planets do not communicate but but I have made them "aware" exactly what the other was doing at the exact same moment althoufgh they are separated by 300 light years. A sort of "knowledge" across 300 light years if you like.
QuoteEven thinking of a "speed of time" is a major misconception. In addition, there can't be a universally "correct" time since clocks end up measuring time differently when they're moving. Finally, since space and time are all bound up, you can't even really specify what it would mean for those two planets to send their signals out simultaneously: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity .Dear Wik , how knowledgeable they are. Time moves differently on planets of different masses. so we take in my thought experiment the flow of time when floating free in space and then adjust our local clocks accordingly. To my proposed UMT.
This is what you keep saying, and we keep trying to explain. Planets A and C are not in any way aware of what any other planet is doing by the time they get the message. They can speculate on the probability of what is happening on the other planets, make the educated opinion that they are probably synchronising their effort along with them, but 100/200 years is a long time.
Those that come after them (their great great grandchildren) must wait the 203 years and 8 minutes and at that precisely timed moment each planet A, B and C will "know" what the message asked them to do was, success or failure. They will simultaneously "know" this at the very same "moment" although separated by the vast spans of the universe, that the outcome of the experiment.
200+ years is a very short time in cosmological terms
Or the acts of B and C were enough to save them without A after all. Or doomsday just didn't happen at all as they had predicted. They won't know for sure exactly what transpired on the other planets until they recieve a communication from them.Quote200+ years is a very short time in cosmological termsI meant in human terms, its alot of time for a planet to enter into a world war and wipe themselves out, etc.
Sure, we can synchronise our measurement of time with them roughly but we can't communicate with them or recieve any information about them faster than light
I propose that there might be a Universal Mean "Moment" somewhat the same as GMT. or a "GM Moment" Time is an illusion of the human Psyche there only ever changing "moments of nows"
Remember a love song what a beautiful "Moment" A moment with your lover condenses 12 hours of real time into one glorious moment, subjective time An awful moment such as waiting in long boring Queue for say a doctors negative report will stretch out to an subjective etrnity,. Both are real one a fleeting moment , the other an eternity to exaggerate somewhat
This is off topic but the point is does time travel , does it have a speed, is it entangled somehow with the light constant C is there no universal moment??
I don't really know a whole lot about quantum entanglement but I thought communication was impossible through it because although both entangled atoms react at the same time, there's no way to control the action, and someone trying to recieve a signal would not be able to tell the difference between a random normal action, or an action induced by the far signaller