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Firstly let me say that I have a keen interest in on-demand oxyhydrogen production and have for some time been intrigued by the claims of achieving over-Faraday gas outputs.Now, just before anyone jumps to any wrong conclusions about me, I should say that I'm as sceptical as most educated people are on this subject, and take nothing on face value. However, I'm open-minded enough to consider ideas and claims before dismissing without a thought. And, given the world fuel crisis it seems to me some things might just warrant a little further thought and investigation. OK, let me pose the first question that I'm having trouble with, in the hope that someone can provide the answer I'm looking for.Now, bear with me as this may initially seem like a ridiculous question to ask. Here goes: Can anyone tell me exactly how adding a non-reactive electrolyte to water in order to increase ion content and hence increase current flow from any given applied voltage, actually increases production of hydrogen and oxygen?This may seem like a simple question, but I fear it's actually a lot more complex than most people realise. In fact I'm really struggling to get a proper answer to this.Any help much appreciated.
Pure water is a non-conductor. Since the O amd H production is proportional to the current flow, anything that increases the current also increases the production.
Come on BC, this is your chance to kill the boredom. Your last post simply dances around the issue and explains nothing! It was a pointless post unless you can follow it up with a half useful answer.I'd rather not play silly games - I take it you don't know!
"Exactly how and why does an ion current through water cause ionisation of the water? "It doesn't.The ions form when the electrolyte dissolves in the water.The reaction is H2SO4 --> 2H+ + SO4--"but how does this increase ionisation of water given that these ions actually play no part in the final reaction?"it doesn't
BC - shame on you for holding with the established scientific models!
as water dissociates into ions, (figures given by by BC somewhere above), but nevertheless something causes this to happen without any externally added energy.
As for the effect of other ions on the level of water ionisation, could the electron from a self ionised water molecule be delayed in its recombination with that ion because of the presence of the other negative ions. A delay would result in an increased concentration. Could that be a big enough effect?It could be a similar action to that of a catalyst, as you say. Perhaps the impurity +ions grab the free electrons and change the balance of things enough to reduce the probability of recombination.
The degree of ionisation of the water won't be affected by addition of acid or, indeed, salts such as magnesium sulphate (which is what we use to do the same job when we're demonstrating electrolysis to kids, it being less corrosive etc).
The change in pH (which is linked to the degree of water ionisation) on adding heat doesn't need to be attributed to the movement of the species directly... it's a direct consequence of the thermodynamics... ΔG = ΔΗ - T ΔS as T increases the term in ΔS becomes more important.
However, if collisions are not the cause, then why does the water heat up so quickly under heavy current? Surely this would be due to collisions... wouldn't it?
So does this mean that effectively an ion generates a lot more energy than a single electron?
The work for each charge is QV when moved through a PD of V, irrespective of the mass of the particle - and of how many charges might 'take up the baton' on the way.Some of this work / energy will show up as heat and the rest, I presume, is involved in what goes on at the electrodes, as the gases or solid deposits are formed.
I'm struggling to picture what exactly can be happening here and why it remains a continuous process. Why doesn't there come a time when all the electrolyte ions are pulled to their oppositely charged electrodes and hence current flow ceases? I'm obviously missing a very important piece of the puzzle here! But what is it?
There are always fresh electrons coming out of the Cathode. I suggest that there is probably a gradient of Anions and Cations - concentrated around their respective electrodes but, just beside the elecrodes, it is the 'water' ions which end up losing and gaining the electrons, preferentially. There is a large reservoir of these - until the jar is nearly empty.
Also, if enough negative ions pile up round the positive electrode it stops looking like a positive charge.
If a water-soluble electrolyte is added, the conductivity of the water rises considerably. The electrolyte disassociates into cations and anions; the anions rush towards the anode and neutralize the buildup of positively charged H+ there; similarly, the cations rush towards the cathode and neutralize the buildup of negatively charged OH− there. This allows the continued flow of electricity.
btw, you say the sodium - water reaction doesn't occur. That isn't surprising because a Na+ ion has less attraction for a free electron (screening of the inner shells in Schoolboy terms) than an H+ ion. In fact, doesn't that explain why H2 is produced, preferentially?