What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« on: 05/11/2008 21:10:42 »
Hamilton is being hailed as the first black F1 champion, Obama as the first black US president. But hang on - in both cases their mother is white. That makes them only half black. Why, then, are they classed as black not white? After all they're 50/50.

I've seen white guys with tans who are darker-skinned than Hamilton. Mick Jaggers lips are just as big. So what is it?
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Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #1 on: 05/11/2008 22:11:03 »
The official terminology is mixed heritage. Both Barry and Lewis should be asked what they see themselves as before labels are applied. There is a new film openning soon called Skin (I think.) It is about a black girl who has two white parents. They are living in South Africa during appartied. The white parents obviously see her as white but the Africa government see her as black. She has to go to a government office where they do tests on her such as, seeing if a pencil will stay in her curly hair, to see if she is black or white. I think it will show just how stupid labelling people is in the first place.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #2 on: 05/11/2008 22:21:36 »
The official terminology is mixed heritage. Both Barry and Lewis should be asked what they see themselves as before labels are applied. There is a new film openning soon called Skin (I think.) It is about a black girl who has two white parents. They are living in South Africa during appartied. The white parents obviously see her as white but the Africa government see her as black. She has to go to a government office where they do tests on her such as, seeing if a pencil will stay in her curly hair, to see if she is black or white. I think it will show just how stupid labelling people is in the first place.

I'm sure I've read the book
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Offline RD

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #3 on: 05/11/2008 23:24:15 »
Q. What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
A. Somewhere between "Cinnamon" and "Copper teak" on the Dulux colour chart.
http://greatpaintingtips.com/ici-colour-card-2007-available-online/2007/03/30/

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #4 on: 06/11/2008 02:18:49 »
Q. What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
A. Somewhere between "Cinnamon" and "Copper teak" on the Dulux colour chart.
http://greatpaintingtips.com/ici-colour-card-2007-available-online/2007/03/30/

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Offline Don_1

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #5 on: 06/11/2008 11:23:35 »
Quite right, neither Hamilton nor Obama are black or white. But I can go with the cinnamon description. I’m rather partial to cinnamon. I do like a nice Hot Cross Bun with loads of real butter. Unhealthy? Who cares?

Headline......

Obama, first cinnamon US President.

But why must the media continue to point out their skin colour? They have told us (not that 99.9% of us needed to be told, since we can see for ourselves), there is no need to keep on about it.

On a BBC Radio 4 programme a few days ago, the matter of ‘mention of race’ was discussed. A British psychologist with an English sounding name on his way from London to a meeting had his secretary give a description of him to the man who would be picking him up from the airport arrival lobby. They missed each other. The secretary had not pointed out that her boss was Asian, because she did not think it relevant. Under such circumstances, as the psychologist pointed out, it is!

There is nothing wrong with saying ‘black is black and white is white’. There is nothing racist about it. But once the fact has been established, there is no need for constant repetition. Or if it is patently obvious, why mention it at all.

I think this is all down to the racial PC brigade and their ‘positive discrimination’. While I admit that in some circumstances it may be preferable, on the whole I do not like it. I think it hands ammunition to the racist bigots.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #6 on: 06/11/2008 13:38:06 »
Don - I quite agree. When I was lecturing I was once berated when talking to a colleague about 1 of the students in my class. So that he knew who in particular I was referring to, I said "The lesbian with red hair". Apparently that is discriminatory.

How can it be? She is a lesbian and, at the time, had red hair.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 13:39:39 by DoctorBeaver »
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #7 on: 06/11/2008 13:48:15 »
I'm somewhat surprised that no-one has called me racist yet for this thread. Maybe the idiots are hibernating.
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Offline Don_1

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #8 on: 06/11/2008 14:12:23 »
Seems reasonable to me Doc. This programme discussed the reluctance of people to mention colour for fear of being branded racist.
Worth listening to on the BBC iplayer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00f75dg/All_in_the_Mind_04112008/
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #9 on: 06/11/2008 14:28:44 »
It's all down to some people wanting to impress others with how PC they are. "I'm more righteous that you so ner"
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blakestyger

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« Reply #10 on: 06/11/2008 17:32:06 »
That's right, call a spade a spade - although they prefer to be called negroes.

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Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #11 on: 06/11/2008 18:04:07 »
The last statement was the only racist thing on this thread. I assume it was in jest, like the Spanyards blacking up at their Grand Prix!!!!!!!!!

People don't mention colour or race because they are afraid of making a mistake and either insulting someone or seeming ignorant. Being politically correct is OK as long as people are educated to use it properly. Ignorance is the enemy in all this. Not talking about or learning about race and colour and what people are comfortable and uncomfortable about reinforces ignorance. Beaver this thread is very relevant. You should never be afraid to ask or you will stay ignorant forever.
I employ a diversity lecturer who is mixed heritage African/British. A teacher asked him "Why is Nigger so offensive to black people?"
The lecturer replied "Because it usually comes with the word Die or kill the f****** in front of it."
The history of this language is what makes it politically incorrect.   
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #12 on: 06/11/2008 18:09:14 »
But black people, especially the young, call each other nigger. Just listen to rap songs.
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Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #13 on: 06/11/2008 18:14:29 »
They are trying to reclaim the word but it isn't working because only best black friends can use it with each other. You try going up to a young black man and try calling him nigger. I think you will find that hospital food has improved under a labour government!
Again it is finding out what people are comfortable with. For young black men, using nigger with each other is the usual teenage rebellion against their parents values. It is like my boys calling everything slightly rubbish, gay.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #14 on: 06/11/2008 18:27:43 »
But that illustrates my point about PC. How can it be OK for person A to use a particular word but not person B? That is saying that the word itself is not inherently offensive, but that it can be offensive or not depending on who uses it. Isn't that showing up the very differences that PC is supposed to play down?
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 18:30:47 by DoctorBeaver »
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #15 on: 06/11/2008 18:32:51 »
As I said before it is all about dialogue and finding out what people are comfortable with. If you don't have the conversation you will be hedging around the topic all the time. To begin with using the PC rules is just being polite. It gives you the basic rules. When I lived in Japan all foreigners were taught ultra polite English because then you would not make mistakes and offend people. Japanese is a very honorific language and can be a nightmare. Once you understand the honorifics then you can explore the language more.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 18:35:17 by Make it Lady »
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #16 on: 06/11/2008 18:34:33 »
Well I think it's a load of bollox
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #17 on: 06/11/2008 18:36:16 »
Very mature response. I know what JimBob means now!
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #18 on: 06/11/2008 18:37:20 »
I came to that conclusion after much considered thought.
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Offline RD

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« Reply #19 on: 06/11/2008 18:46:27 »
If you go back far enough it appears that we are all "of African decent"...

Quote
According to the Out of Africa Model, developed by Chris Stringer and Peter Andrews, modern H. sapiens evolved in Africa 200,000 years ago. Homo sapiens began migrating from Africa between 70,000 – 50,000 years ago and would eventually replace existing hominid species in Europe and Asia. The Out of Africa Model has gained support by recent research using mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). After analysing genealogy trees constructed using 133 types of mtDNA, they concluded that all were descended from a woman from Africa, dubbed Mitochondrial Eve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_man#Out_of_Africa_model

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blakestyger

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« Reply #20 on: 06/11/2008 19:54:40 »
The last statement was the only racist thing on this thread. I assume it was in jest,   

Yes, the spade reference was made in jest (frankly, I'm amazed that anybody could remember it as it's quite outmoded) - it was intended more as a reference to an older usage within the context of the thread.
I wouldn't have thought any thinking person would regard a pun like that as racist, especially within the context of a humorous thread such as this one - this is usually the default setting of the hastily reactive.
Cross-cultural jokes are acceptable to the extent that my financial adviser, who is Jewish, often finishes our telephone conversations by him telling me a Jewish joke - in the same way that Lionel Blue used to tell one on the Today programme.
True racism is that which is expressed through actions rather than words; for instance, it would be offensive racism to get up and move to another seat on a bus if a black person sat next to you - but not a word would have been spoken.
Where racism really falls on its face is because it criticises/vilifies someone for something they can do nothing about - their facticity.
There is no freedom greater than that which allows us to criticise and/or satirise any belief or activity that is the result of choice - that of course includes religion, dress sense etc, but excludes colour, ethnic origin and disabilities.

PC is much valued by those unable to think for themselves, those practitioners who, in the proper order of things, should be out there digging ditches and coppicing smallwood. They are all mangers now, often in minor government departments, free to dispense their battiness to the rest of us - a pox upon them all.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 19:57:36 by blakestyger »

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #21 on: 06/11/2008 20:00:21 »
Well said, sir.
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #22 on: 06/11/2008 21:29:47 »
So would you count monkey chanting at football matches and blacking up for Lewis Hamilton racist or not?
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #23 on: 06/11/2008 21:38:28 »
Of course I would as it's degrading and insulting. But that is a totally different thing to calling someone a nigger. Black people use that word among themselves but I don't recall ever a black man monkey chanting at another black man
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #24 on: 06/11/2008 21:41:08 »
So you would call a black man a nigger then?
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #25 on: 06/11/2008 21:54:23 »
So you would call a black man a nigger then?

That's not what I said, is it. I was querying why it depends on the colour of a person's skin whether the word can be used or not. That in itself is racist and makes the whole PC issue a nonsense.
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #26 on: 06/11/2008 22:45:38 »
And all I'm saying is that people do worry about being PC because they haven't been allowed to explore what it is and what is acceptable. This is especially the case in rural areas. Ignorance and stereotyping in the media don't help. I read an article recently about a black farmer in Lincolnshire who kept getting the police calling on him when he went out to pick his maize. The ignorant people around him didn't see a black farmer. They saw a black thief steeling maize. The guy was surprisingly tolerant of the situation. If I were him I would be fuming!
I have also been on the other end of racism when I lived in Japan. After a year the pointing and the cries of "gaijin" really gets you down. Name calling is very wearing when it is constant.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #27 on: 06/11/2008 22:54:27 »
I've been on the receiving end too in Africa because I had a black girlfriend. It was her who got the abuse for being with a "mzungu".
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blakestyger

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« Reply #28 on: 06/11/2008 22:55:10 »
When I was training to be an Appropriate Adult (in the criminal justice system) there was a young black man from another town in the same group.
He said that when he first went out as an Appropriate Adult to help some one in custody who was deemed vulnerable the police automatically assumed it was him they had to interview - he was very good natured about it and said that he'd half thought to let it run to see how it would develop.

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paul.fr

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #29 on: 07/11/2008 11:43:33 »
I would guess they are both different colours depending on your own outlook, but then again i think Obama tried to be all things to all people.

As strange as it may seem, i am often asked if i am "half-cast"! But this tends to be in area's where there is little ethnic diversity or where the people are just racist. The fact that i have a good, year round tan, never occurs to them. Similary my daughter is mistaken for someone of medeteranian origin, i have no idea why this is because both her mother and i are white!

As for the 'N' word, yes this is used by blacks to other blacks and it can be used as an insult or a welcoming greeting.

As for race in America, i think nobody knows how to address people. You will often see the same interviewer refer to the interviewee as black and african american in the same interview, but i do put most of the "blame" on the black population. In their strive to be different, they want to be classed as african americans when they (the majority) are quite cleerly americans. why can we all not just be american, british or french...sorry, i dont think anyone would WANT to be french.

I leave you with this picture, what do you honestly think the missing letter is? This is wheel of fortune and the clue is "people who annoy you"

[attachment=5218]

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #30 on: 07/11/2008 16:20:31 »
What are noggers?
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blakestyger

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« Reply #31 on: 07/11/2008 16:37:42 »
It's probably 'NAGGERS' - if the little figure of a woman is significant.

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Offline rhade

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« Reply #32 on: 07/11/2008 17:30:19 »
But that illustrates my point about PC. How can it be OK for person A to use a particular word but not person B? That is saying that the word itself is not inherently offensive, but that it can be offensive or not depending on who uses it. Isn't that showing up the very differences that PC is supposed to play down?
It isn't so much who uses the word, as the context in which it is used. When black people use it among themselves, they are not likely to be being offensive.
My objection to the politically correct dialogue, management speak and similar contrivances, is that they are modish or inflated diction.And, according to the Oxford guide to English usage, only a bad writer uses modish or inflated diction.
As the great man said, "love your neighbour as you would love yourself- But first be able to love yourself."

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Offline Don_1

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« Reply #33 on: 07/11/2008 17:40:12 »
What are noggers?

Same as 'nuggers' but with an 'o', not the same as neggers though.

What a load of hurrr
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Offline rhade

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« Reply #34 on: 12/11/2008 15:12:58 »
sorry, i dont think anyone would WANT to be french.

I think this is the only racist, or at least, nationalist, comment in this discussion.
As the great man said, "love your neighbour as you would love yourself- But first be able to love yourself."

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blakestyger

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« Reply #35 on: 12/11/2008 16:53:23 »
sorry, i dont think anyone would WANT to be french.

I think this is the only racist, or at least, nationalist, comment in this discussion.

How is that? I would not want to be French because of their horrendous beaurocracy - I've had experience of being at the wrong end it - that is devised by the French for the French. Does that make me racist or 'nationalist' whatever that is?

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #36 on: 12/11/2008 18:28:01 »
You suggested that no one wants to be French when what you meant was that you don't. Personally, I'm happy being British because that is what I am used to. Other people would not wish to be British. You do need to qualify bald statements otherwise you do sound racist. This is where political correctness comes in handy!!!!
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #37 on: 12/11/2008 20:53:17 »
Blake - I don't want to be an onion-string-wearing, cycle-riding, stripey-T-shirted, frog eater either!  [:D]
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blakestyger

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« Reply #38 on: 12/11/2008 22:52:02 »
You forgot the garlic-chewing. [;D]

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #39 on: 12/11/2008 23:02:29 »
rhade, I tried, but these uncouth bunch just don't know how to behave.
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Offline RD

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« Reply #40 on: 12/11/2008 23:17:34 »
I would not want to be French because of their horrendous beaurocracy ...
Does that make me racist or 'nationalist' whatever that is?

I'm glad you didn't say chauvinist, that would have ranked alongside Dubya's "The French have no word for entrepreneur".

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #41 on: 12/11/2008 23:19:30 »
Thanks Rd that really made me chuckle.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #42 on: 13/11/2008 00:07:09 »
The French are very xenophobic. They fear the British, the Germans, The Spanish, The Monaconians (or whatever they're called) & the Andorrans.
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paul.fr

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« Reply #43 on: 13/11/2008 06:33:37 »
rhade, why do you think what i wrote was racist? I find it strange that you thought that was racist, but have no problem with the image i posted. Both were (intended) to be humerous, afterall, isn't "knocking" the french a british passtime?
Would it not have been better to ask me if i intended it to sound racist or for clarification on what i wrote? Now, if this was being discussed with a frenchman and he thought i was being racist, we would possibly be sat around a large table drinking wine, our voices would be ever so slightly raised and we would begin eating some cheese. The passionate frenchman would by now be throwing his hands up in the air. No not in a gesture to his frustration, but the typical action of a cheese eating, surrender monkey!
Mil
I hope the above is politically correct and nonracist sounding? Also, did you mean "other people MAY not wish to be British"?
Blakestyger
in the world we live in anything can be turned and manipulated.

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Offline JimBob

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #44 on: 13/11/2008 16:21:35 »
This is one of the most depressing threads I have seen in a long time - we are all just human beings and this should be all that we see in each other.
« Last Edit: 13/11/2008 16:27:42 by JimBob »
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #45 on: 13/11/2008 16:59:29 »
This is one of the most depressing threads I have seen in a long time - we are all just human beings and this should be all that we see in each other.

I agree. I was just wondering why Obama & Hamilton see themselves as black as when they are as white as they are black.
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Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #46 on: 13/11/2008 21:06:36 »
Because they have been racially abused. People who see themselves as a minority group refer to themselves as black or gay!
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #47 on: 13/11/2008 21:09:12 »
Paul if you would like some more French bashing info ....most French people admit to eating whilst on the toilet!!!!!! YUK!
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #48 on: 13/11/2008 21:16:37 »
Paul if you would like some more French bashing info ....most French people admit to eating whilst on the toilet!!!!!! YUK!

Thanks, sharon, I will add that to the list. Did you know that the french have taken their own precautions against al-Qa'ida. To prepare for? an attack, each Frenchman is urged to keep duct tape, a white flag, and ?a three-day supply of mistresses in the house."

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Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #49 on: 13/11/2008 21:36:01 »
They should just wave an orange suit at them. That usually does the trick.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.