Religion v atheism

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Religion v atheism
« on: 07/11/2008 20:58:37 »


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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #1 on: 08/11/2008 00:15:43 »
Nine tenths of the answer.
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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Offline JnA

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« Reply #2 on: 08/11/2008 00:22:07 »
so believe in nothing and always be surprised.

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #3 on: 08/11/2008 02:51:30 »
It wasn't magic though, it was abiogenesis! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg  <-- this video explains it beautifully, one of my favourite youtube vids
« Last Edit: 08/11/2008 02:56:31 by Madidus_Scientia »

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Offline _Stefan_

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« Reply #4 on: 08/11/2008 09:31:58 »
Both are Straw Men... though the first is much more accurate.
Stefan
"No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish." -David Hume

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blakestyger

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« Reply #5 on: 08/11/2008 10:47:48 »
Both are Straw Men...

Absolutely right - and neither tells us anything.

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #6 on: 08/11/2008 15:04:27 »
Oh, I thought they were going to wrestle or have a football match. Thread disappointment syndrome is a terrible illness.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #7 on: 08/11/2008 15:36:40 »
Oh, I thought they were going to wrestle or have a football match. Thread disappointment syndrome is a terrible illness.

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Offline thelastman

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« Reply #8 on: 08/11/2008 16:08:21 »
It wasn't magic though, it was abiogenesis! newbielink:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg [nonactive]  <-- this video explains it beautifully, one of my favourite youtube vids

Hi.  I'd like to see this but when I click on it it tells me either I have Java script turned off or not the latest Adobe flash player.  I installed the latest flash player and I have Java script enables but it still tells me this.  Can someone help me get this working?

Thanks,

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #9 on: 08/11/2008 18:10:37 »
thelastman - which OS & browser are you using?
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #10 on: 08/11/2008 18:37:52 »
Oh, I thought they were going to wrestle or have a football match. Thread disappointment syndrome is a terrible illness.


Threatening a girl with a dog that looks like Hitler is just not on.
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #11 on: 08/11/2008 21:36:36 »
I didn't realise Hitler wore dark glasses and had long, floppy ears.
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Offline thelastman

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« Reply #12 on: 09/11/2008 00:55:05 »
Hello DoctorBeaver.  I'm using Firefox 3.0.3 under XP.  I checked the help at YouTube and apparently others are having the same problem too.  Looks to be a problem with FireFox as in the past, before I received several updates, I could look at the videos.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #13 on: 09/11/2008 00:59:56 »
I'm using FF 3.0.3 under Ubuntu Linux and I've got no problems with it. Makes me think it must be an issue with FF 3.0.3 under XP.
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blakestyger

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« Reply #14 on: 09/11/2008 12:14:23 »
I'm using Firefox 3.0.3 under Vista and recently the screen covers itself in a transparent milky-white shroud  - there's a message "Firefox is not responding" - I wait 2 minutes and it sorts itself out. This seems to coincide with downloading the latest Firefox version. Things never seem to get better.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #15 on: 09/11/2008 13:01:31 »
So FF 3 .0.3 works perfectly under Ubuntu but not under XP or Vista. I've checked on the Linux forums I use and I can't see any posts relating to this problem. Am I seeing a pattern here?
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Offline BenV

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« Reply #16 on: 09/11/2008 13:41:32 »
I'm on 3.0.3 in both XP & vista - works okay in both.  It may be worth checking that you've got the latest flash plugin - that could be stopping youtube from working properly. I had the same issue with google chrome until I updated flash.

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Offline thelastman

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« Reply #17 on: 09/11/2008 14:29:32 »
Hello Ben.  I believe I have the latest version of the Flash player.  I'll try and contact FireFox about it . . . hackers hate not being able to do something on a computer.

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #18 on: 09/11/2008 18:34:20 »
Try glycerol that usually helps with hacking!
Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

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Offline thelastman

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« Reply #19 on: 09/11/2008 20:24:50 »
It wasn't magic though, it was abiogenesis! newbielink:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg [nonactive]  <-- this video explains it beautifully, one of my favourite youtube vids

Thanks Madidus.  I watched the one "How Abiogenesis Works".  May watch some others now I have my machine working with You Tube. 

Hey Lady . . . we'd rather hack   [;)]

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Offline thelastman

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« Reply #20 on: 09/11/2008 20:50:41 »
Dr. Beaver, while I'm on a roll, I'd like to comment about your initial thread: ". . . and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which turned into dinosaurs".  I think you wrote that in jest right?

Of course nothing could be further from the truth.  I wish to present to the court "Complexification" by J. Casti, "At Home in the Universe" by Stuart Kauffman, "Self-Organization in Biological Systems" by Camazine, "Perspectives of Non-Linear Dynamics" by E. Atlee Jackson and one of my favorite quotes by Rene Thom:

"All creation or destruction of form, or morphogenesis, can be described by the disappearance of the attractor representing the initial form, and their replacement by capture by the attractor representing the final form".

. . . the reason is dynamics and the attractors inherently present in sufficient complex systems.  A long time ago I use to look outside my window and wonder why about a lot of things.  Then I started studying non-linear dynamics.  I no longer wonder why about a lot of things.
 

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #21 on: 09/11/2008 23:02:54 »
I didn't write either of them. I just came across them & thought they were amusing. My version would be even more simplistic to match my brainpower.  [:(]
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #22 on: 10/11/2008 11:05:42 »
Found these too:-



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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #23 on: 10/11/2008 20:24:42 »
Just found this quote by Steven Weinberg - "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #24 on: 10/11/2008 21:34:26 »
How do you get evil people to do good things then?
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #25 on: 10/11/2008 23:14:42 »
How do you get evil people to do good things then?

Shipman was a doctor. Don't doctors do good things? And was Shipman evil? Certainly his actions were; and if you take the view that we are defined by our actions, then he was evil.
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Offline _Stefan_

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« Reply #26 on: 11/11/2008 01:35:15 »
It could be that they do good things if it is in their own evil interest to do so...

The point of that quote is that ideologies can make people do things that they wouldn't otherwise do.
Stefan
"No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish." -David Hume

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Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #27 on: 11/11/2008 18:43:26 »
I'm about to play a baddy in a Panto. I'm a bit of a method actor. So your telling me in order to play someone that does truely evil things, I need to give my character faith! Well blow me down.
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Offline JnA

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« Reply #28 on: 12/11/2008 01:01:06 »
Do evil people think they are doing evil things?

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Offline _Stefan_

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« Reply #29 on: 12/11/2008 04:41:45 »
People like religious suicide bombers probably believe they are doing good for themselves and their religion. They aren't evil themselves, but their actions are. The religious leaders who mentor them though might be a different story.

Make It Lady: that's just acting...
Stefan
"No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish." -David Hume

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #30 on: 12/11/2008 09:46:27 »
I don't think anyone really does something that they think is evil - they will justify it one way or another.  Most, if not all, of us will have done something that made someone else suffer, but we always think it's justified at the time.  I think this generally occurs in school, while we're still learning who we are and how to act, but that "he deserved it" feeling is strong at the time - it's only afterwards when we evaluate our actions from a different perspective that we feel it was the wrong thing to do, and so our definition of justification adapts.

Any ideology can be used to justify 'evil' actions, it's not limited to religion - misplaced nationalism (which can lead to racism, xenophobia etc) is one example, vigilante justice is another.

Hitler, often held up to be a paragon of 'evil', no doubt felt his actions were justified, perhaps for the good of the German people, perhaps just for the good of the Arian race, or just for the good of his own family or peers.  This isn't to say that what he did was right, but that he felt it was justified.

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Offline _Stefan_

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« Reply #31 on: 12/11/2008 10:02:36 »
Well said, Ben.
Stefan
"No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish." -David Hume

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #32 on: 12/11/2008 14:05:58 »
Good & evil are just facets of societal norms.
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