Canola Oil? No thank you.

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Offline miriam0920

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« on: 25/11/2008 00:15:55 »
When my husband started buying Canola oil I thought he was buying something safe for us.  Unfortunately, a few months later I found out he was feeding us with some rare kind of poison.  Canola oil is produce in Canada from rapeseed.  It is said to be poisonous to human consumption. I am very concern with trans fat and all other man-made ingredients.  Canola oil is the cheapest cooking oil in the market and unfortunately, available only to the poorest people.  Please don't buy this product.  Best choices is Olive Oil 100% pure, extra virgin. 

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Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #1 on: 25/11/2008 00:19:49 »
That is correct

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #2 on: 25/11/2008 19:14:44 »
No it's not.
The food grade oil is made from plants that don't produce the toxic compounds that the wild types do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canola

As for "Canola oil is the cheapest cooking oil in the market and unfortunately, available only to the poorest people. ",. What are yuou talking about? I can buy the stuff and I'm a long way from "the poorest people".

Please don't spread this sort of nonsense

What's the point of telling people (many of whom simply cant afford it) that olive oil is the best?
For a start it doesn't do a good job for deep fat frying.
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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #3 on: 25/11/2008 21:14:24 »
In reply to your post Mr. Bored Chemist.  I have nothing to do with commercial oil supplies or anything like it.  I am sending a message out there that let's people be more aware of what they are digesting.  Reason for so many disease are what we eat, drink and breathe. 

Canola oil is a product that compare to other cooking oils is the cheapest, with that only let it ring a bell. Mostly all the cooking oil are partially hydrogenated soy.  I understand that "partially hydrogenated" stands out to "trans-fat."  Why you do think companies are now proclaiming "NO TRANS-FAT" in their commercial labels?  Because people are investigating, they know that trans-fat is a man-made fat that the body doesn't know how to dissolved. 

If you want to read about warning google it.  Go to "google.com" and write Canola Oil.  Read for yourself. 

I don't think that if I want to help somebody to eat healthier is nonsense.

Oh and also don't deep fry when you can steam.
« Last Edit: 25/11/2008 21:16:42 by miriam0920 »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #4 on: 25/11/2008 22:35:08 »
What is this "I have nothing to do with commercial oil supplies or anything like it." a reply to?
Nobody said anything else.

"Canola oil is a product that compare to other cooking oils is the cheapest"
Some sort of oil has to be cheapest.

"Mostly all the cooking oil are partially hydrogenated soy. "
Well, if that's true then since, as you say, hydrogenated oils are often high in trans fatty acids (which seems not to be a good thing) it would be better to use some other oil
Canola oil would fit the bill. It's used as-is rather than hydrogenated.

" Why you do think companies are now proclaiming "NO TRANS-FAT" in their commercial labels? "
Because there is evidence that trans fats are a bad thing.
So what?
Canola oil isn't a good sourse of trans fats.
"Because people are investigating, they know that trans-fat is a man-made fat that the body doesn't know how to dissolved."
Well, it's more complex than that but it's fair to say that trans fats are a by product of fat processing and there's evidence they are bad for you.


WTF does this have to do with canola? Wild type rapeseed oil has a relatively high trans fatty acid content. But Canola has been bred specifically not to. Did you read the wiki article? It explains the name "The word "canola" was derived from "Canadian oil, low acid""

"If you want to read about warning google it.  Go to "google.com" and write Canola Oil.  Read for yourself.  "

I did. That's how I found the wiki article I cited earlier. That wiki article in turn features a report saying canola is full of trans fatty acids.  The organisation that produced the report also says  (on their website)  that "It contains "the infamous chemical warfare agent mustard gas" which simply isn't true.
Now I obviously can't vouch for all the world's oil, but I have seen analyses of biodiesel made from rapeseed oil that had very low levels of erucic acid (the alledged source of the problems). So, even industrial oil hasn't got the stuff in it. Why would it be in the food chain?

Telling people about healthy food isn't nonsense but this is "Canola oil is the cheapest cooking oil in the market and unfortunately, available only to the poorest people."

Lots of people like fried food (I'm one of them) not all of them can afford olive oil and it would be dumb to use it for frying because it ruins the flavour.


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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #5 on: 25/11/2008 23:18:31 »
"Lots of people like fried food (I'm one of them) not all of them can afford olive oil and it would be dumb to use it for frying because it ruins the flavour."  Ever wonder why Olive oil is so expensive?  What is the difference between expensive things and cheap things?  I have an answer:  quality.


Wiki is a website that anybody can add or delete information.  Wikipedia is not a reliable source.  Just so you know. 



 


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Offline rosy

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« Reply #6 on: 26/11/2008 09:21:08 »
Quote
What is the difference between expensive things and cheap things?  I have an answer:  quality.
Rubbish. The difference between expensive things and cheap things is a combination of the supply:demand ratio and the costs of production. Quality naturally affects how many people want to buy the stuff, and for similar products it may cost more to improve quality... but as a bald statement that's just ill thought-out nonsense.


Quote
Wiki is a website that anybody can add or delete information.  Wikipedia is not a reliable source.  Just so you know.
True. But where it links to an external websites it is a helpful ready reference to
links posted by people on both sides of a given article (and the chat page can be extremely informative).

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blakestyger

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« Reply #7 on: 26/11/2008 10:34:12 »
What is the difference between expensive things and cheap things?  I have an answer:  quality.
Wiki is a website that anybody can add or delete information.  Wikipedia is not a reliable source.  Just so you know. 

Two things:

The cost of products such as these is more likely to be related to yields and costs per hectare - rapeseed grows in fields, olives in orchards. Quality is subjective and not a factor here.

Wiki is as you say, open to all, that does not make it intrinsically unreliable. In the fields of science and technology at least, responsible contributors make sure their input is accurate and quote citations. I have contributed myself to a biographical entry; it was only the publishing date of a rare book, by the subject, that I owned - but it was 100% accurate.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 10:36:05 by blakestyger »

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Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #8 on: 26/11/2008 10:43:59 »
This is from the actual Wiki site, I'll let people decide for themselves whether its reliable or not.

Wikipedia is written collaboratively by volunteers from all around the world; anyone can edit it. Since its creation in 2001, Wikipedia has grown rapidly into one of the largest reference Web sites, attracting at least 684 million visitors yearly by 2008. There are more than 75,000 active contributors working on more than 10,000,000 articles in more than 250 languages. As of today, there are 2,636,350 articles in English; every day hundreds of thousands of visitors from around the world make tens of thousands of edits and create thousands of new articles to enhance the knowledge held by the Wikipedia encyclopedia.

Visitors do not need specialized qualifications to contribute, since their primary role is to write articles that cover existing knowledge; this means that people of all ages and cultural and social backgrounds can write Wikipedia articles. Most of the articles can be edited by anyone with access to the Internet, simply by clicking the edit this page link. Anyone is welcome to add information, cross-references or citations, as long as they do so within Wikipedia's editing policies and to an appropriate standard. Substandard or disputed information is subject to removal. Users need not worry about accidentally damaging Wikipedia when adding or improving information, as other editors are always around to advise or correct obvious errors, and Wikipedia's software is carefully designed to allow easy reversal of editorial mistakes.

Because Wikipedia is an ongoing work to which, in principle, anybody can contribute, it differs from a paper-based reference source in important ways. In particular, older articles tend to be more comprehensive and balanced, while newer articles more frequently contain significant misinformation, unencyclopedic content, or vandalism. Users need to be aware of this to obtain valid information and avoid misinformation that has been recently added and not yet removed (see Researching with Wikipedia for more details). However, unlike a paper reference source, Wikipedia is continually updated, with the creation or updating of articles on topical events within seconds, minutes or hours, rather than months or years for printed encyclopedias

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blakestyger

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« Reply #9 on: 26/11/2008 12:27:51 »
This in no way detracts from its value - which will never be authoritative as the paper-based sources, but it makes up for this in its accessibility.

What better way to teach youngsters how to distinguish good from bad data?

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Offline Evie

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« Reply #10 on: 26/11/2008 18:13:52 »
Just to illustrate the potential misinformation regarding canola oil, it was a topic for a CHAIN EMAIL (which we all know are almost always misleading if not downright wrong).

It was addressed on Snopes.com which debunks hoax emails. Here is a link to the article:
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp


Another site that has investigated the canola health issues is: http://web.archive.org/web/20010809065733/www.cansa.co.za/facts_myths_diet_canola.asp

"After analysing the statements of John Thomas and Prof Bruce MacDonald as well as consulting textbooks, Medline, The Merck Index and other sources of information, I am satisfied that this attack on Canola Oil is without substance and is a travesty of the truth."

And from the FDA: http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00198.html

It is of course within anyone's rights to stop eating something they don't feel comfortable with and to pass along information to others. I just prefer to do a lot of research before perpetuating a claim such as this.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 18:42:19 by Evie »
====================================================
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Hamlet
Act I, scene 5

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #11 on: 26/11/2008 20:14:23 »
I know Wiki isn't entirely reliable.
What we need is someone with personal experience of having analysed the stuff.

Sorry if this sounds like bragging, but I really feel that I fit the bill better than Miriam0920 does.

Does anyone else out there have any real observational data rather than just a link to a website that may, or may not, tell the thruth?
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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #12 on: 26/11/2008 22:36:21 »
Whoever wants to consume  and cook with Canola oil and feed their family you can do so.  It's your choice and something that maybe you can even save a couple of bucks.  I won't never eat something that is made out of toxic plants even it they say they clean the plant and extracted the toxin in it. 
Maybe the correct way to research this is not by reading, but by actually interviewing people using one oil and the other.  Look for the percentage of sick versus healthy.  I don't come here to win or lose a posting.  I come here in honest faith to help people make the right choices.  I am studying to become a chemist because it's a passion burning inside of me.  How many millions or billions of women suffer from cellulite?  This is not because how much they eat its because what they eat.  All these trans-fat in the food and all those man-made ingredients has cause women's body to suffer this horrible disease that is Cellulite (cottage cheese thighs and buttocks).  You don't see African women with Cellulite.  They don't eat processed foods.  Everything is natural.  Men don't know what it is to store fat in this horrible way.   

Companies profit from what they sell.  If this large company with billions of dollars comes and read something bad about their product, believe me they will pay to publish three hundreds articles refuting and denying the existing articles, that's called marketing. 

Let those who have ears hear.
« Last Edit: 26/11/2008 22:39:32 by miriam0920 »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #13 on: 27/11/2008 07:10:45 »
"I won't never eat something that is made out of toxic plants even it they say they clean the plant and extracted the toxin in it.  "

So, no rhubard, potatos, peaches, apricots, almonds, tomatos, tappioca, or apple for you then.
"Maybe the correct way to research this is not by reading, but by actually interviewing people using one oil and the other.  Look for the percentage of sick versus healthy." Maybe, but there are a lot of confounding variables so it would be very difficult.
"Men don't know what it is to store fat in this horrible way.   "
The men with cellulite do.

It's not a matter of "winning the posting" It's a matter of saying things that are correct.
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blakestyger

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« Reply #14 on: 27/11/2008 11:53:55 »
You don't see African women with Cellulite.  They don't eat processed foods.  Everything is natural.  Men don't know what it is to store fat in this horrible way.   

In the San bushmen the women are steatopygous - that is, they store fat on their thighs. I'm sure if anyone has a mind to, pictures of this can be found on the Net. The proportions can be quite massive.

In evolutionary terms, I wonder how this feature came to only one human group - and if it was more widespread, what caused its disappearance?

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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #15 on: 27/11/2008 19:22:33 »
So BC thinks I am inventing this? 
Here are some websites and reports that I've read:

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/canola.htm [nofollow]

http://www.ithyroid.com/canola_oil.htm [nofollow]

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/new/canola.htm [nofollow]


If the reports are true or not just use your own judgment.

Happy thanksgiving to all!



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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #16 on: 27/11/2008 19:26:39 »
Blake, I didn't find photos of these women can you send a link?  I would like to see it. 

thanks.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #17 on: 27/11/2008 20:07:20 »
Miriam,
I don't think you are inventing it; I think you are parroting it from people who are.

OK to help those who wish to look at those sites and make up their own minds here's some further information.

The first thing the first site says is this "Canola oil comes from the rape seed, which is part of the mustard family of plants. Rape is the most toxic of all food-oil plants"
Simply not true. Apricot kernels are used for oil production and have sky high cyanide levels. Now, I grant that castor oil isn't generally used as a foodstuff, but they do use it industrially.
Castor beans make ricin- just about the most toxic material known.

By the way, do you like cashew nuts?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashew_nutshell_liquid


It goes on to rehash the lie that "Rape oil is also the source of the infamous chemical-warfare agent , mustard gas, which was banned after blistering the lungs and skin of hundreds of thousands of solders and civilians during WW1."
The source of the mustard gas produced was a factory on Wigg island near Runcorn (there were other factories too). No plant, rape or otherwise produces it.

If these sites are legitimate why do they tell lies like this?

The second site says (after a few paragraphs "It was thought this was how "Mad Cow" began and started to infiltrate the human
chain. What is interesting is that when rape oil was removed from animal feed,
'scrapie' disappeared."

Scrapie, while it's becoming rarer has not disapeared, so the second site tells lies too.

Even if the assertion were true, it might not mean anything. The pound coin was introduced in 1983- roughly the same time. Is it responsible for the reduction of cases of scrapie? Of course not. Just because 2 things happen at the same time doesn't mean one causes the other.

The third site says this "The reason canola is particularly unsuited for consumption is because it contains a very–long–chain fatty acid called erucic acid,"
Erucic acid is a C20 acid- not that much longer than, for example the (C18) oleic acid that is the major fatty acid in olive oil. Rather shorter than the behenic(C22) acid found in some nut oils. Any takers for nervonic acid? A C24 acid and a vital component of the brain.


There are problems associated with the stuff but why trust a website that blames these on the length of the molecule (which isn't unusual) rather than on the fact that it's a trans fatty acid (which is unusual for a natural product)?

The talk of erucic acid is beside the point anyway.
It is not present (or barely present) in oils used for food.
Who cares if diesel oil is toxic?
I don't drink it.
If I did, the rapeseed oil version would still be less toxic than the petroleum based version.








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blakestyger

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« Reply #18 on: 27/11/2008 21:13:10 »
Blake, I didn't find photos of these women can you send a link?  I would like to see it. 

thanks.

After some scratching about I found these. Most sites appear to have drawings from anthopology texts.

barclay1720.tripod.com/hist/paleo/buttocks.htm

There is one forum member who might have something to say if ever he sees this:

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blakestyger

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« Reply #19 on: 27/11/2008 21:17:43 »
miriam0920

Most sites had drawings from anthropolgy texts but I found these, though they aren't as large as some I've seen in the past. There are more if you do a Google advanced image search.

http://barclay1720.tripod.com/hist/paleo/buttocks.htm

There is one forum member who might have something to say if ever he sees this. [;D]
« Last Edit: 27/11/2008 21:33:17 by blakestyger »

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #20 on: 27/11/2008 23:06:11 »
Twa pygmies have large buttocks too. They live in the forests on the Uganda/Zaire (now the Democratic Republic of the Congo) border. If I remember correctly, they are hunter/gatherers and only come into the towns to trade for cultivated products. I didn't get to that part of the country very often so I don't know a great deal more about them.
Fledgling science site at http://www.sciencefile.org/SF/content/view/54/98/ needs members and original articles. If you can help, please join.

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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #21 on: 28/11/2008 05:20:55 »
BC, its okay to contradict what I write, but lets keep name calling away from the discussion.  Just because you have a different opinion then I, doesn't mean you need to offend me.  I don't parrot thing because I am not a bird.  Saying I repeat nonsense is inappropriate.  Just because you studied chemistry doesn't mean you know all the meaning and can interpret all what's going around the world.  Probably you skip Behaviour Manners 101.  If what I wrote was not to your agreement a little "Miriam please make sure you know all the fact before coming to a conclusion," would sound better than what you initially wrote.  You're not only a bored chemist but a bitter one too.

Blake thank you for the information. 

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #22 on: 28/11/2008 07:01:08 »
Miriam, I don't think it's good manners to keep posting nonsense about canola on a scientific website after it has been made quite clear to you that it is nonsense. For what it's worth, would you have been as offended if I had used the word "copied" rather than "parrotted"?
What about "aped"?

Have you st opped eating potatoes and apples?

Do you think the men with cellulite don't understand what it's like?
« Last Edit: 28/11/2008 07:03:32 by Bored chemist »
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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #23 on: 28/11/2008 08:00:48 »
Quote
You're not only a bored chemist but a bitter one too.

All he's done is critically analyse your claims, which is to be expected on a science forum. Unfortunately some people take being shown to be wrong as some sort of personal attack. So instead of replying with an Ad-hominem attack, why not retort on the actual points of argument?

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blakestyger

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« Reply #24 on: 28/11/2008 09:28:25 »
The problem with communication like this is that in normal face-to-face conversation 70% of the message is non-verbal, so that in forum dialogue we only get 30% of the message - therein lies misunderstanding.

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #25 on: 28/11/2008 11:00:01 »
Body language and the tone of your voice etc. is indeed an important factor in communicating face-to-face, but I reckon this would apply more to general conversation/socializing rather than this kind of debate style of conversation wouldn't it? Face-to-face, you could perhaps get the same message across without thinking about your wording so much, but this format has the advantage that you have time to think about how to best articulate your message to get it across coherently.

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blakestyger

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« Reply #26 on: 28/11/2008 11:54:29 »
Good point, I agree. But it's predicated on people taking the time to do that - I don't mean this pejoratively - but not all contributors read what they've put before they press the post button!

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #27 on: 28/11/2008 13:17:14 »
Face-to-face you can whack them with a monkfish if they argue!  [:D]
Fledgling science site at http://www.sciencefile.org/SF/content/view/54/98/ needs members and original articles. If you can help, please join.

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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #28 on: 28/11/2008 15:01:17 »
I do eat potatoes and apples because they grow naturally.  I use Olive oil because they come from the olive tree, I use corn oil because it comes from the corn, what I don't use is Canola oil that comes from rapeseeds.  Men gets cellulite but not as much as women, that what I meant when I wrote it.   
Have a nice day. 

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #29 on: 29/11/2008 07:59:59 »
What do you mean by potatoes and apples grow naturally, how to they grow different from rapeseed?

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #30 on: 29/11/2008 17:42:28 »
Do you realise that appple seeds contain cyanide and that potatoes contain solanine? These are poisonous plants.

The plants that canola is produced from are essentially free of the toxic components so why is it differeent from apples or spuds?
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lyner

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« Reply #31 on: 29/11/2008 18:18:58 »
[quote[The plants that canola is produced from[/quote]
Just been listening to Radio 4 on correct grammar.
 You should say "The plants from which canola is produced"  if you really want to dump on someone with a clincher argument.
That is behaviour up with which I do not put.
I fully support your argument, though.

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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #32 on: 29/11/2008 19:11:02 »

Debating online through forums and websites you need to be careful not to put words that can be offensive.  I am very respectful regardless if you know me or not, if you can see my face or not.  I like to learn something new each day, and share with people what I've learn. At the end they will come to their own conclusions.  I like this website because I assume we are all professionals.  I am professional in my field and BC is professional in his field.  Maybe he knows more than me in the process of ions,cations, anions,chemical reactions, equations, and all of that. (I have a degree in Liberal Arts).  I'm trying to complete a degree in Chemistry cause science is my true passion.   





« Last Edit: 29/11/2008 19:24:57 by miriam0920 »

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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #33 on: 29/11/2008 22:58:04 »
Do you realise that appple seeds contain cyanide? 

That is why I don't eat the seeds from the apple. I spit them out.  Or if I'm not that busy I plant them.
And I don't eat green potatoes.
« Last Edit: 29/11/2008 23:09:10 by miriam0920 »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #34 on: 30/11/2008 14:37:09 »
I don't understand the respect offered to a scientific website by putting forward an unevinced and inaccurate view of a technical subject by someone who knows that it's really not their field. Specifially, you said "Unfortunately, a few months later I found out he was feeding us with some rare kind of poison. " I find it offensive that someone posts rubbish like that on a scientific website.
I can also live without patronising comments like "Go to "google.com" and write Canola Oil."- particularly when it's clear that I did- that's how I found the wiki article.


How would it look if I were to make bold, yet ignorant statements on a website dedicated to the liberal arts? Would that be seen as polite?
Incidentally, if the wiki article about liberal arts is corrent in identifing them, then 4 aren't relevant to this post and you (directly or as a result of the pages you cited) got the other 3 (Grammar, Rhetoric and Logic) wrong.

I see that you have changed your standpoint from " I won't never eat something that is made out of toxic plants even it they say they clean the plant and extracted the toxin in it. 
" to " I don't eat the seeds from the apple. I spit them out.  Or if I'm not that busy I plant them. And I don't eat green potatoes."
That's a remarkabe volte face.
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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #35 on: 30/11/2008 16:16:08 »
BC, you are wrong in saying I have had a "volte-face."  I said I don't eat apple seeds and according to you, you are saying apple seed contain cyanide.  I eat apples but not the seeds.  Also, you say potatoes contain solanine.  But it's said to be potatoes that have been extremely exposed to the sun which causes the potatoes to have a greenish color indicating higher doses of this toxin.  By the way, what makes you so sure that the information is rubbish?  Just because you read it in wiki? Do you believe in the Big Bang theory?  What makes you so sure that really happened? Because we learn by reading, we learn that things by listening to our teachers. You believe what they say, because don't tell me everybody in this planet living today were there when the Big Bag happened?  Scientists around the world have different point of views, they discuss this and that, and write articles about there findings.  I can come here and discuss whatever I want and read everybody's opinion.  I don't see nothing wrong with that.  This is I believe a forum?

BC, yes, you have made me change my mind about something, not the Canola oil, you haven't succeed in that.  But you have changed my mind about participating in a forum where certain people think they know it all.

Enjoy your day! :)


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Offline iko

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« Reply #36 on: 30/11/2008 16:28:23 »
Hi Miriam0920,

I think you are right about respect and moderation.
Let me add that olive oil plus codliver oil is the magic formula! [;)]
Nice to read that you are not bored and that Science is your true passion.
Take care

ikod
« Last Edit: 30/11/2008 16:33:28 by iko »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #37 on: 30/11/2008 20:41:44 »
Why am I wrong in saying that you have changed from "I won't never eat something that is made out of toxic plants" to "And I don't eat green potatoes."?
Since potatoes (green or otherwise) are from a toxic plant you have changed your mind.
The stuff you posted is still here for anyone to read.

"By the way, what makes you so sure that the information is rubbish? "
Because they say things like rapeseed oil contains mustard gas. Totally impossible, and you seem not to have noticed that I pointed out where mustad gas is made.

"Do you believe in the Big Bang theory?  What makes you so sure that really happened?"
Yes, I do, because there is evidence for it. That's the point of science.
By the way, did you not notice when I pointed out that I had actually seen the analysis (done by a colleague of mine) of rapeseed oil. Don't you think that counts for more than "I put a phrase into google"?
"Scientists around the world have different point of views, they discuss this and that, and write articles about there findings. "
There are not many scientists who don't believe in the big bang, but that hasn't got a lot to do with the point.
Please disregard all previous signatures.

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lyner

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« Reply #38 on: 30/11/2008 21:54:16 »
Two alternative views are not necessarily equally valid. I would normally go for the one with more evidence behind it rather than the one with more 'emotion' behind it.

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #39 on: 01/12/2008 07:32:10 »
I like this website because I assume we are all professionals.  I am professional in my field and BC is professional in his field.  Maybe he knows more than me in the process of ions,cations, anions,chemical reactions, equations, and all of that. (I have a degree in Liberal Arts).  I'm trying to complete a degree in Chemistry cause science is my true passion.

If science is your true passion then the first thing you should learn about is the scientific method, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

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paul.fr

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« Reply #40 on: 01/12/2008 07:49:47 »

Just been listening to Radio 4 on correct grammar.
 You should say "The plants from which canola is produced"  if you really want to dump on someone with a clincher argument.
That is behaviour up with which I do not put.
I fully support your argument, though.

Would that be Grammar Challenge?

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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #41 on: 02/12/2008 23:27:43 »
I do know about the scientific method.  What do you mean?  That I need to use the scientific method to learn about Canola oil? Yeah, because if not, don't tell me you learned about the Big Bang by doing your own scientific method. I would like to see that!  But you know, even Albert Einstein had trouble convincing his peers about the Relativity theory.  It took him 15 years to convince people that he was right. 

Peace out! 

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #42 on: 03/12/2008 07:10:23 »
It took a while, but eventually they were convinced by the evidence.
Pleases provide us with some.
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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #43 on: 03/12/2008 07:42:58 »
I mean don't be convinced of something yourself let alone start preaching to others, before you have evidence and have thought about it critically.

Yes I did learn about the big bang that way, through reading through all the evidence and reasoning behind it.
« Last Edit: 03/12/2008 07:47:04 by Madidus_Scientia »

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #44 on: 03/12/2008 19:56:44 »
People accepted Eintein's work because it explained a number of things and it also predicted one, the change in the apparent positions of stars and planets when they were "near" the sun.
A bloke called Eddington looked for the effect (during an eclipse of the sun which is that only time you can see stars that are near the sun).
It turned out that Einstein's theory was right.

People beleived Eddington because he was an established figure and, at least as important, he was able to explain how he made the measurements.

You have an idea that canola oil is toxic "some rare kind of poison".
That postulate should, if it is ever to be accepted as scientific, be able to make predictions- and the good news is that it does.
If canola oil is toxic then (from the deffinitiopn of toxic) people who eat it should get sick and die.
This experiment has been done many times. Plenty of people habve eaten the stuff.
They are all still with us.
Therefore the material is not toxic, and your postulate is false.

Also we can look at some of the notions behind the idea.
For example part of your reason for believing the postulate is that you have read that it contains mustard gas.
However, one of the known properties of mustard gas is that it's an organochlorine compound.
One of the known properties of organochlorine compounds is that they are extremely rare in nature.
This means that the basis for the postulate is extremely improbable.
Also a lot of studies have been don on rapeseed plants and their relatives. Part of the motivation is that people are just interested in why mustard (for example) tastes the way it does.
There is quite a lot of data about the stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allyl_isothiocyanate
But it doesn't mention mustard gas.

Most scientist would, by now, have ditched the postulate and moved on.



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Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #45 on: 06/12/2008 03:30:48 »
Wow, you forgot to click "spell check" on this one.  But thanks for the postulated theory.  Unfortunately, toxics chemicals can remain in the body for many years to come before somebody dies of it.  You're reasoning haven't convince me.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #46 on: 06/12/2008 18:13:58 »
I'm always pleased when someone complains about my spelling, it means they haven't found anything material to complain about.

Anyway, while it's true that "Unfortunately, toxics chemicals can remain in the body for many years to come before somebody dies of it." it doesn't matter. The toxins are not there in canola.
By the way, if you plan to comment on my spelling, perhaps you ought to sort out your grammar- after all, you are the liberal arts expert.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #47 on: 06/12/2008 23:55:35 »
I've been using Canola for years and it hasn't done me any harm

Fledgling science site at http://www.sciencefile.org/SF/content/view/54/98/ needs members and original articles. If you can help, please join.

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Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #48 on: 07/12/2008 03:56:18 »
Really?

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blakestyger

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« Reply #49 on: 07/12/2008 10:52:31 »
If science is your true passion then the first thing you should learn about is the scientific method, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

This is a good entry - I think that out of all the philosophers of science, Paul Feyerabend probably got it right the most.