What is holding back electric car technology?

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Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #150 on: 13/12/2010 03:30:42 »
So 1,200 MPH would be FAST!!!!!

As Einstein said, "It's all about your relatives."

Compared to C, it's a snail's pace.
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Offline maffsolo

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« Reply #151 on: 13/12/2010 10:12:49 »
Maffsolo, check your math. 60 miles per hour is 1 mile per minute. I use this fact to check my speedometer against mile markers. Steve

I am off a factor of 10 thanks sorry

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Offline teragram

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« Reply #152 on: 19/12/2010 18:19:46 »
Amazing to find that this topic has re-appeared after two years. I would just like to point out that the much mailigned Tesla is still popular (amongst people who are two rich to count themselves in my group od friends). From what I see on the web it seems to live up to it's range claims. Also quite a few manufacturers are on the point of launching production quantities of battery powered cars. On the whole, very encouraging.

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #153 on: 19/12/2010 19:29:43 »
Amazing to find that this topic has re-appeared after two years. I would just like to point out that the much mailigned Tesla is still popular (amongst people who are two rich to count themselves in my group od friends). From what I see on the web it seems to live up to it's range claims. Also quite a few manufacturers are on the point of launching production quantities of battery powered cars. On the whole, very encouraging.

Thanks to mobile phones and laptop batteries [:D]

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #154 on: 20/12/2010 02:29:05 »
Amazing to find that this topic has re-appeared after two years. I would just like to point out that the much mailigned Tesla is still popular (amongst people who are two rich to count themselves in my group od friends). From what I see on the web it seems to live up to it's range claims. Also quite a few manufacturers are on the point of launching production quantities of battery powered cars. On the whole, very encouraging.

Thanks to mobile phones and laptop batteries [:D]

I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.
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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #155 on: 20/12/2010 10:22:56 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Unlike petrol that is barely flammable...

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #156 on: 20/12/2010 19:30:33 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Unlike petrol that is barely flammable...

No, it actually burns rather well, but it's not prone to spontaneous combustion when used properly.
« Last Edit: 20/12/2010 19:44:48 by Geezer »
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Offline SeanB

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« Reply #157 on: 20/12/2010 19:53:25 »
Speak to owners who have had ford products that did the same self immolation act, as one did that I saw go from expletive to inferno in under 30 seconds.......

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Offline teragram

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« Reply #158 on: 20/12/2010 20:18:52 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Like I.C. engines do when they run out of water/oil?

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #159 on: 20/12/2010 21:01:16 »
Speak to owners who have had ford products that did the same self immolation act, as one did that I saw go from expletive to inferno in under 30 seconds.......

Yes, but you can't blame that on a defect in the manufacture of the gasoline.

I'm only pointing out that there are certain known issues with lithium-ion batteries. The effects can be bad enough when there are only a few of them in a laptop computer, but when you pack a large number of them together, if anything goes wrong, the results can be rather nasty. No doubt it will all get sorted out in time, but I'm suspect we'll learn some interesting things along the way.

BTW, you do know about the UPS plane that was destroyed when some lithium-ion batteries it was carrying went bonkers. Presumably they were not being charged or discharged at the time either, although I'm not sure about that.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #160 on: 20/12/2010 21:02:52 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Like I.C. engines do when they run out of water/oil?


Oh, I think the results will be a lot more spectacular than that  [:)]
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #161 on: 20/12/2010 21:30:52 »
I found some anecdotal evidence that 15 out of 75 million ipods had overheating problems with their batteries. I don't know if any of them actually went on fire, but elevated temperatures can trigger thermal runaway with this technology.

If we extrapolate that figure (I know it's a bit naughty to do that, but that's what we anecdotal physicists do) to electric vehicles, the odds don't look so hot (er, maybe I should rephrase that) because electric cars are going to have hundreds of cells, not just one, so the car guys have to be looking for much smaller FIT (failures in time) rates than that.
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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #162 on: 21/12/2010 01:59:54 »
I don't know if any of them actually went on fire, but elevated temperatures can trigger thermal runaway with this technology.

Well, the solution is staring us in the face - in case of thermal runaway, just use the batteries to power their own air-conditioning unit [;D]

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #163 on: 21/12/2010 05:46:20 »
This just in. A review of the Chevy Volt. (I don't think I'll be rushing out tomorrow to order one.)

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1633/hyped-hybrid-the-chevy-volt-gets-average-mileage-for-a-hybrid/
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Offline CliffordK

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« Reply #164 on: 21/12/2010 11:51:08 »
Quote
Once the battery is depleted and the car is essentially using only gasoline as its fuel, we averaged 30 mpg overall

A 33 mile range would be sufficient so that most of my driving would be 100% electric.  But, one would sure take a hit on "road-trips".

That is a huge dependency on electricity rates...  in California, it almost looks like about an equivalent of $2.38 / gallon of electricity.  Here it is probably half that, and more practical.

I'm looking at the Toyota Reviews:
http://www.plugincars.com/toyota-prius-plugin-hybrid/review

Not a lot of details.
But, listed at only about 12˝ Miles "Plug-In".  Or, about half a commute for me.  But, much better MPG in gas mode.

If they pushed it to 100 miles electric mode...  I'd be down to about a tank of gas a year.



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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #165 on: 21/12/2010 12:56:53 »
The Volt is a Series-hybrid if I'm not mistaken.
Personally, the only time cars should be configured series-hybrids rather than parallel is, if the Range-extender is able to be 'lifted-out' and the car is able to run as straight-electric - without having to lug an 80Kg+ around all the time.

No mainstream manufacturer is ever likely to off this though!
« Last Edit: 21/12/2010 12:58:44 by peppercorn »

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #166 on: 21/12/2010 16:57:33 »
As the article points out, the Volt does not really work on purely economic grounds, but people will probably buy them for other reasons. (I couldn't even make to town and back on a single charge.)
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Offline techmind

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« Reply #167 on: 21/12/2010 21:32:54 »
Another thought: if everyone swapped their cars to electric overnight, they'd need to approximately double the amount of electricity generated/distributed each day.
"It has been said that the primary function of schools is to impart enough facts to make children stop asking questions. Some, with whom the schools do not succeed, become scientists." - Schmidt-Nielsen "Memoirs of a curious scientist"

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Offline DaS Energy

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« Reply #168 on: 22/12/2010 07:16:00 »
The greatest problem we see with electric vehicles is how they obtain their electricity.

In 2002 DaS Energy began its journey to development of new internal combustion engine resulting in it having only one moving part a recycling hydro turbine.

This development has the might of piston engine makers across the world fighting it coming on market.

So DaS Energy took the radical step of releasing all in Open technology free to copy.
« Last Edit: 22/12/2010 17:25:26 by peppercorn »

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #169 on: 22/12/2010 18:17:18 »
The greatest problem we see with electric vehicles is how they obtain their electricity.

In 2002 DaS Energy began its journey to development of new internal combustion engine resulting in it having only one moving part a recycling hydro turbine.

This development has the might of piston engine makers across the world fighting it coming on market.

So DaS Energy took the radical step of releasing all in Open technology free to copy.

Tha's a stretch of a connection if ever I heard it!
I don;t feel comfortable linking to other forums but,
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/63209

I think these guys have already given some, er opinions on ya 'idea' [:-X]

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SteveFish

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #170 on: 22/12/2010 19:11:53 »
What is holding back electric car technology? The biggest problems come from those individuals who are unable to see the big picture. Petroleum is running out and because of this, and increasing demand for fossil fuels from developing nations, especially China and India, the price is going to go up radically. If we all wish to maintain the general automobile mode of transportation, another fuel must be developed.

There are several possibilities, but the most well developed and currently widely distributed alternative automotive power is electricity. So new sources of electricity will have to be developed unless someone comes up with a new, inexpensive way to make, distribute, and store hydrogen, or a new inexpensive way to make biofuels becomes available (e.g. cellulosic alcohol). It is also the case that, because of several ecological imperatives, we should also develop new sources of electricity to displace fossil fuel use.

Geezer, electricity is no more dangerous than gasoline, and both exploding Pintos and melting computer batteries are just engineering problems. Making an issue of this is a red herring. Steve

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #171 on: 22/12/2010 20:29:47 »
Geezer, electricity is no more dangerous than gasoline, and both exploding Pintos and melting computer batteries are just engineering problems. Making an issue of this is a red herring. Steve


Steve,

I don't think I said electricity is more dangerous than gasoline, did I? What I did point out was that one particular technology for storing electrical energy is intrinsically unstable. I have nothing against electric vehicles in principle, although I think some people have totally unrealistic expectations of the benefits they afford.

My concern about lithium-ion cells might be less of a red herring than you seem to think. Time and large numbers will tell, but even if a small number of EVs suffer catastrophic fires for no apparent reason, it could turn the public away from them in large numbers.   
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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #172 on: 22/12/2010 20:46:21 »
My concern about lithium-ion cells might be less of a red herring than you seem to think. Time and large numbers will tell, but even if a small number of EVs suffer catastrophic fires for no apparent reason, it could turn the public away from them in large numbers.

Much as I hate to admit it, but I sadly have to agree (Not hate to admit I agree with Geezer [:D]) - The general public are a short sighted and fickle bunch at the best of times, so I would not like to see them commit all BEV's to the same destiny in the future as Li-ion based ones, if they fail widely once ubiquitous.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #173 on: 22/12/2010 21:13:47 »
Thanks PC (I think  [::)])

BTW, why do we need all the marketeering technobabble mumblespeak about the classifications of "hybrid" vehicles.

Surely the Volt is a gasoline-electric with a battery, or should we go back and reclassify all the diesel-electric locomotives and ships that have been around for seventy plus years as something else?  [;D]
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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #174 on: 22/12/2010 21:26:00 »
Thanks PC (I think  [::)])

BTW, why do we need all the marketeering technobabble mumblespeak about the classifications of "hybrid" vehicles.

Surely the Volt is a gasoline-electric with a battery, or should we go back and reclassify all the diesel-electric locomotives and ships that have been around for seventy plus years as something else?  [;D]

I'm sure marketing has played it's part in the spreading of the terminology, but (unusually for me) I do think this is a viable piece of informative 'babble' from the marketeers.

I suppose (following on from your argument) the logical explanation of hybrids should always mean parallel hybrids (even then the word could be misleading).  There is not a locomotive equivalent of this configuration - A train would never be developed in the parallel Diesel-and-Electric route (although...[???]).

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« Reply #175 on: 22/12/2010 21:28:17 »
Geezer and Peppercorn, one point and a question. There are more battery types than Li-ion. Please explain why you think that Li-ion is inherently unstable, and why you think this is not just an engineering problem. Don't tell me about appliance battery problems, they may have just been poorly designed. Steve

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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #176 on: 22/12/2010 22:00:59 »
Geezer and Peppercorn, one point and a question. There are more battery types than Li-ion. Please explain why you think that Li-ion is inherently unstable, and why you think this is not just an engineering problem. Don't tell me about appliance battery problems, they may have just been poorly designed. Steve

I think thermal runaway was mentioned - I think this is a particular issue with Li-ion (for reasons I don;t profess to understand). I don't know if this is as serious with the newer LiFePO chemistry.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #177 on: 22/12/2010 22:13:57 »
Steve,

There are many other types of batteries, but as far as I'm aware, the only technology that has enough energy density to make EVs practical at the moment is Li-ion.

All batteries can be dangerous, as can gasoline, because they contain a lot of stored energy, but only when we do rather extreme things to them. e.g. your car battery will explode if you "crowbar" it with a dead short, as will Ni-Cad cells, however, they do not spontaneously combust.

Unlike many other battery technologies, Li-ion cells contain a flammable electrolyte. Also, lithium is highly reactive and releases hydrogen in contact with water. They have multiple failure modes that can lead to thermal runaway, and when that happens, they start to burn. One of the best ways to initiate the thermal runaway is with heat, so when one cell starts to burn, there is a high probability of a domino effect that cannot be stopped.

They have a much higher probability of failure at elevated temperature. Unfortunately, when you charge them and discharge them, they get hot!

No doubt many of these concerns can be mitigated with very good engineering and vigilant quality control programs, but this particular technology is always going to be susceptible to catastrophic failure. Remember, Sony was one of the major players who got burned by this stuff already, and they are not exactly a fly-by-night corporation.

However, I'm no expert on this technology. There are a lot of good articles on the web that do a much better job of explaining the precise conditions for failure than I can. If I dig up a good one, I'll post a link.
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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #178 on: 22/12/2010 22:45:16 »
There is not a locomotive equivalent of this configuration - A train would never be developed in the parallel Diesel-and-Electric route (although...[???]).

Yup. You spoke too soon  [:D]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_73
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Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #179 on: 23/12/2010 00:19:20 »
There is not a locomotive equivalent of this configuration - A train would never be developed in the parallel Diesel-and-Electric route.
Yup. You spoke too soon  [:D]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_73

touché! [;)]

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Offline CliffordK

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« Reply #180 on: 23/12/2010 02:33:10 »
A lot of car manufacturers want to add a little techno-babble to their car descriptions.

Anybody really know why you want a "Hemi" in your pickup, or even what the heck it is?

The Hybrid is now widely recognized as a fuel/electric regenerative drive system.  So, in that sense, it is good to have a simple term for people to understand.

However, what the auto manufacturers don't tell the people is that there are other ways to improve automobile fuel efficiency than adding expensive hybrid systems.  Several European vehicles have broken 70MPG without the hybrid technology.  In fact, the Prius only gets mediocre fuel efficiency compared to European cars.  The original Honda Insight actually did much better than the Toyota, as well as its Honda successor.

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #181 on: 23/12/2010 07:04:12 »

Anybody really know why you want a "Hemi" in your pickup, or even what the heck it is?


Isn't a hemi the thing that gives you a very sore bum?

Actually, my truck has one (a Hemi - not a sore bum). Once upon a time it actually meant "hemispherical combustion chamber", but I have to admit I haven't whipped one of the heads off to confirm that they are remotely hemispherical.
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SteveFish

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« Reply #182 on: 23/12/2010 18:16:45 »
Geezer, you have just given me a bunch of old information on LiCoO2 technology. There are probably a dozen different Lithium ion battery types with some in production and others under study. Here is a link to a slick presentation that was made by a MIT lithium battery researcher for the EPA about one version, the LiFePO4 battery that are already on the market. Safety concerns are covered. It is just an engineering problem. Steve

www.epa.gov/opptintr/nano/p2docs/casestudy3_chiang.pdf

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #183 on: 23/12/2010 18:44:02 »
Geezer, you have just given me a bunch of old information on LiCoO2 technology. There are probably a dozen different Lithium ion battery types with some in production and others under study. Here is a link to a slick presentation that was made by a MIT lithium battery researcher for the EPA about one version, the LiFePO4 battery that are already on the market. Safety concerns are covered. It is just an engineering problem. Steve

www.epa.gov/opptintr/nano/p2docs/casestudy3_chiang.pdf

Steve,

I'm glad to hear that they think they've solved the chemistry problem.

However, as far as I am aware, the Tesla and the Volt are still using technology that's prone to spontaneous combustion. It would be a pity if some of these early vehicles create issues that put the general public off the idea of EVs similar to the way the Hindenberg put the general public off airships.

If you go back and read what I've posted, you'll see that was the point I was trying to make.

When the technology that goes into EVs is sufficiently mature to meet the market needs in terms of safety, reliability and costs (capital and operating), I'm sure it will be adopted on a large scale. If we force the technology into the market prematurely, it could do more harm than good.

Just to reiterate, I do not have any objection to EVs in principle (despite any impression you seem to have to the contrary).
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« Reply #184 on: 24/12/2010 01:37:47 »
Geezer, I believe that the LiFePO4 battery is intended for use in cars, but there are some even more interesting Lithium ion batteries on the horizon. I think there is one that can take a full charge in 30 minutes without getting hot. When talking about these things it would help me if you said what you do think is the appropriate course. It sometimes seems to me that you are an enthusiastic naysayer. Steve

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #185 on: 24/12/2010 04:08:50 »
Steve,

Naysayer, no. Electrical engineer, yes.

It comes from being a Senior VP of Engineering in high technology companies in California and having marketing guys, who don't know engineering from their elbows, tell me "it's simply an engineering problem". I imagine the poor blighters that are trying to get useful energy from fusion are being told the same sort of thing. The guys that worked on the hydrogen fuel cell cars that we were all promised fifty years ago probably had to deal with similar interference.

It's one thing to make a prototype of something and get everyone all hyped up about it. It's another thing entirely to make a product based on that prototype in high volume, and that difficulty increases in a very nasty nonlinear fashion when there is any possibility that the product will maim or kill the customers. It takes years and years for a corporation to establish a good name. It only takes about five minutes to destroy it because somebody overlooked an, apparently, insignificant detail.

It would be extremely interesting (if not downright scary) to listen in on some of the dialogue between the departments in GM that are responsible for the Volt. The pressure on the various engineering groups must be quite incredible. Perhaps J. Assagne can help us out with that one.

I can assure you of something. If the chemists are still looking for safer chemistry for Li-ion batteries, there is a lot of concern about the technology. No doubt GM and the rest are keeping a very close eye on these developments, but they can't switch to an alternative chemistry at the drop of a hat. The qualification cycle for a modified technology will be incredibly expensive, and although it's possible to accelerate the process with various ageing techniques and huge numbers of samples, it still takes an enormous amount of time and money.

Just to give you an idea, one very effective technique is to take a very large sample and devise an accelerated life test that causes every member of the sample to fail. Each failure is then carefully analysed and categorized. Every time you change anything in the design or manufacturing process, you have to consider very carefully whether you have to start the whole bloody thing over again, or not. If you try to cut, what looks at the time to be a very small corner, look out!
 
 

« Last Edit: 24/12/2010 07:46:24 by Geezer »
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« Reply #186 on: 24/12/2010 16:41:34 »
Geezer, my point was that in a thread about what is holding back the electric car it would be helpful, especially in light of your work experience, to talk about what should be done instead of latching on to one problem and beating it to death. Our grandchildren's world needs some solutions. Steve

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #187 on: 24/12/2010 20:01:11 »
Geezer, my point was that in a thread about what is holding back the electric car it would be helpful, especially in light of your work experience, to talk about what should be done instead of latching on to one problem and beating it to death. Our grandchildren's world needs some solutions. Steve

I seem to remember that it was you who said I had introduced a red herring. I didn't. There are real concerns with Li-ion batteries. If you had simply asked for more information instead of jumping on to your soap box and giving us a lecture about "not understanding the big picture" as if we were part of a covert conspiracy to thwart the development of electric vehicles, this thread would be a much happier place.

What needs to be done is for everyone to set realistic goals for EVs that fall within the limitations of the current technology, which is still fairly immature. It needs time to be properly evaluated and refined. EVs are not yet a "silver bullet" that can solve the CO2 problem associated with personal transportation, although I'm sure they will help in a small way.

If battery technology advances significantly in terms of energy density, to, for example, double the current levels, that would make a huge difference. Unfortunately, as you can see from the report on the Volt, the density levels seriously limit the all-electric mode range. This will probably disappoint many potential buyers, and I'm sure it is greatly disappointing General Motors. You can bet they are doing everything they can to reduce that limitation.

There is also some irony associated with EVs. I might be feeling very "green" when I'm driving my EV, while I was actually exporting significant fossil carbon release and pollution to another part of the World. On the other hand, someone who who was running an automobile on synthesized gasoline that had been produced without releasing any fossil carbon would actually be much "greener".

EVs are one of many tools that we have at our disposal to solve the problem, but every one of them has some upside, and some downside. We are all going to have to make some compromises and accept some risks, and the sooner we all realize that, rather than looking for instant fixes, the sooner we will solve the problem.

There ain'ta no sanity clause, and there ain'ta no centrifugal force ćther.

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SteveFish

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #188 on: 24/12/2010 23:03:56 »
Geezer, the red herring is railing against cars that are going to blow up worse than the Pinto (or whatever) without offering an alternative. In the next 20 years, or so, we are going to have to be well into the process of transferring to a transportation system that is much less dependent upon fossil fuels. This can be high mileage gas and diesel small cars. but more importantly this should be toward renewable biofuel or electric technologies. If we don't do this we will be stuck with expensive fossil fuels at a time when it will be much more expensive to make the switch. This imperative is also important for solving both global warming and ocean acidification issues so, at least, all the concerns are congruent. If we don't do this my grandkids are going to be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. If we don't do this the only paddle will be military action to try to get a larger share of the dwindling fossil fuels or descending back into a third world economy for western nations. This is the big picture that I am concerned with. I am enthusiastic to hear what solutions you have to solve this problem. Steve
« Last Edit: 24/12/2010 23:08:18 by SteveFish »

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Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #189 on: 25/12/2010 03:11:01 »
Geezer, the red herring is railing against cars that are going to blow up worse than the Pinto (or whatever) without offering an alternative.

Steve, pardon me, but stop trying to put words in my mouth. I was not railing against electric cars. I don't believe I even mentioned the Ford Pinto (perhaps it was you that brought it up). Furthermore, I had not realized you had implemented the rule (in bold above) on this forum. I'll try to be more careful in future.

The title of this thread is "What is holding back electric car technology?". That was the question I was attempting to answer. The fact that my answer greatly offended you is your problem, not mine.

If you want to start a new topic along the lines of "What are we going to substitute for fossil fuels when they run out?" or something along those lines (which I agree is a very good question) then please start a new thread. Threads tend to go downhill fast when we try to answer different questions.

BTW, Happy Hollidays!
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SteveFish

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #190 on: 25/12/2010 04:41:13 »
Geezer:

Never mind.

Steve

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Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #191 on: 08/01/2011 08:34:24 »
This is Ford's response. I think they are doing a good job by setting realistic expectations. Their comments regarding infrastructure are very interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20110107/tc_pcworld/forddebutsallelectriccar
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Offline Pumblechook

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #192 on: 10/01/2011 18:35:34 »
Electric car sales have droppeded like a stone in the UK.   

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Offline teragram

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #193 on: 18/01/2011 18:41:03 »
Electric car sales have droppeded like a stone in the UK.  

From what, to what?

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Offline preacher

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #194 on: 25/01/2011 11:32:33 »
i have a solution to the electric car problem, but most people will say that its to easy to be true, but i am tryin to be careful about revealing my discovery. i just hope to have enough security before revealing the idea

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Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #195 on: 25/01/2011 12:52:35 »
i have a solution to the electric car problem, but most people will say that its to easy to be true, but i am tryin to be careful about revealing my discovery. i just hope to have enough security before revealing the idea
Which particular electric car problem?... I look forward to be able to invest my many millions in your idea...

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Offline preacher

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« Reply #196 on: 25/01/2011 14:14:43 »
i have a solution to the electric car problem, but most people will say that its to easy to be true, but i am tryin to be careful about revealing my discovery. i just hope to have enough security before revealing the idea
Which particular electric car problem?... I look forward to be able to invest my many millions in your idea...


the problems as regard to charging the batteries and the weight, my electriccar just need two 200 amps battery to start the car, once the car has started it first 20 revolution the arrangement picks it from there. and once the car is on motion the battery will be serving as a bridge while charging.

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Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #197 on: 25/01/2011 17:13:36 »
the problems as regard to charging the batteries and the weight, my electriccar just need two 200 amps battery to start the car, once the car has started it first 20 revolution the arrangement picks it from there. and once the car is on motion the battery will be serving as a bridge while charging.

200 Ah battery? Are you claiming power or peak energy drawn? Also Amps means nothing without Volts.

Charging from where? (please don't say the rotating wheels...)

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Offline Geezer

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« Reply #198 on: 25/01/2011 17:39:15 »
Uh oh! I hope we're not trying to break the law again.
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Offline CliffordK

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #199 on: 26/01/2011 05:28:38 »
the problems as regard to charging the batteries and the weight, my electriccar just need two 200 amps battery to start the car, once the car has started it first 20 revolution the arrangement picks it from there. and once the car is on motion the battery will be serving as a bridge while charging.
200 Ah battery? Are you claiming power or peak energy drawn? Also Amps means nothing without Volts.
Charging from where? (please don't say the rotating wheels...)
A little more explanation is needed.
Many electric motors are "Capacitor Start" to give a little extra boost at low revs.

Ah is a little different...  Amp Hours, or how long the battery will last.
Most car batteries can put out on the order of 1000 Amps at 12.6V (or maybe with a voltage drop) for a brief period of time. 

Your issues, of course, are both the acceleration curve, and the maintenance power.  I've ridden bicycles enough to know that I can't coast forever on the flats  [:-\]