Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?

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Offline SteveD

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Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« on: 10/02/2009 06:43:16 »
Monday February 9, 2009

I have an allergic-like reaction to sexual activity. This is not caused by childhood sexual or emotional trauma. It is not caused by the lack of emotional intimacy or the inability to commit. It is more like an alcoholics reaction to alcohol. After sex, I don't feel connected, warm, close and safe as you would expect a healthy person to feel. I feel needy, hurt, sad, lonely, negative, despairing, rigid, controlling, isolated, obsessive, extreme and humorless. I feel 'pitifully and incomprehensibly demoralized'.

I gave up masturbating 18 1/2 years ago and it helped, a lot. But, good, consistent monogamy and/or marriage do not ameliorate this condition. Twenty months ago I gave up being orgasmic under any condition, and it helped a lot, too. I have not given up sexual contact with my girlfriend, but the times when we agree to abstain physically I feel an absence of symptoms.

Any one else have a similar experience?

Steve D.

Mod edit - formatted the subject as a question - please do this to help keep the forum tidy and easy to navigate - thanks!
« Last Edit: 11/02/2009 12:48:58 by BenV »

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Offline girlwind

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Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #1 on: 10/02/2009 21:15:37 »
Hi Steve--I can relate to what you are talking about regarding an allergic type of reaction to sexual stimulation.
But I haven't been able to figure why it happens at certain times and not at others. I haven't gone as far as you
with attempting to give up all sexual orgasms. I don't think it would work anyway, as I end up having nocturnal
orgasms in my sleep (most notably at certain times in my menstrual cycle), during those times when my body
seems to need that kind of release.

I have noticed that now that I am in a healthy monogamous relationship with a long term partner (10 years),
my sexual response is very different than it was when I was single and looking. At those times I definitely felt
like an attraction to someone could trigger an almost anxiously addictive turn-on of a feeling. With my current
partner sexual contact of any kind is more relaxed and "sleepy" in nature. There is no anxiety about any kind
of performance issues, and there is a lot of acceptance about my very low of libido--due to long term health
issues. There is none of "urgency" about sex, that seemed to happen when I was younger and more addictively
inclined.

Lately also, since I started a hormone treatment with low dose hydrocortisone, my brain feels much calmer in
general and this is affecting my response to sex as well--in that I am not so afraid to have an orgasm for fear
that it will drain my energy. In fact, I had a successfully non-exhausting real orgasm without such problems
a couple days ago. A big victory for me!

I'm glad you started this thread. I hope more people on the POIS forum become aware of it and post some of
their thoughts.
« Last Edit: 10/02/2009 21:17:42 by girlwind »

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Offline underwater

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Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #2 on: 10/02/2009 21:20:18 »
Steve--
I think that your description as an allergic type reaction may be accurate for some POIS sufferers. I think that general sexual activity triggers POIS as well as orgasmic activity. But I think it can be resolved biochemically. As my psychiatrist reminded me yesterday, there are many unknown nuerotransmitters in our bodies. My POIS is not the severe brain fog type. Mine is more amped up hyper with depression. Only modest fatigue. I think mine is connected to anxiety. Thus, I am trying to balance my neurotransmitters. I am making some progress with my supplements. If I can get rid of my anxiety disorder, I will approach POIS with the same type of therapies, and maybe the new neurotransmitter balance with carry over to POIS. My latest theory for me is that I have some type of unhealthy reaction to my own stimulatory neurotransmitters, thus autoallergy. We will see.

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lyner

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Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #3 on: 11/02/2009 10:58:30 »
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

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Offline girlwind

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Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #4 on: 12/02/2009 19:33:44 »
DIAGNOSTIC TEST LIST FOR HORMONAL and OTHER DEFICIENCIES

To check out if one's particular issue with sexual exhaustion or other related symptoms might have a physical
cause, it's a good idea to get ALL of one's HORMONES checked. Here is a list of the tests that I did, some of which
revealed clear deficiencies.

Hormone Tests

Free Cortisol and Cortisol--for adrenals
DHEA Sulphate--also for adrenals
Thyroid tests (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO-AB, Thyroglobulin AB, and Reverse T3),   
IGF-1 (that's growth hormone),
Free Testosterone,
Pregnenolone,
FSH and LH,
Estradiol, and
Progesterone.

Other useful diagnostic tests:

Serotonin (the feel-good neurotransmitter).
Vitamin D 25 hydroxy  (many people are deficient in Vit D)
RBC Magnesium (many people are also deficient in magnesium)
Total Iron; Iron Binding Capacity; and the Ferritin test--the main intracellular iron storage protein.
CBC (complete blood count), which is a panel of tests, that includes RBC and WBC,
the Complete Metabolic Panel--another panel of tests which checks out electrolytes, protein, and
   liver and kidney functions.

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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #5 on: 12/02/2009 20:03:02 »
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Hello Sophiecentaur: Welcome to this new thread. I'm wondering exactly which "techniques" you are talking about.
There is a couple from the reuniting website who have gone into great detail about the biochemistry and bonding
aspects of sexuality.  Have you read any of that work?    Is that what you are referring to, or something else?

 http://www.reuniting.info/

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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #6 on: 12/02/2009 20:18:54 »
there are many unknown nuerotransmitters in our bodies. My POIS is not the severe brain fog type. Mine is more amped up hyper with depression. Only modest fatigue. I think mine is connected to anxiety. Thus, I am trying to balance my neurotransmitters. I am making some progress with my supplements. If I can get rid of my anxiety disorder, I will approach POIS with the same type of therapies, and maybe the new neurotransmitter balance with carry over to POIS. My latest theory for me is that I have some type of unhealthy reaction to my own stimulatory neurotransmitters, thus autoallergy. We will see.

Hello Underwater:

Good to find you here.

I have some similar reactions as you do--I have BOTH the fatigue and the hyper/anxious reactions--common
to people with CFS. I think neurotransmitters (or a deficiency of one or more of them) are definitely involved in
this type of response, but I also think there is an adrenal/cortisol issue playing a part in this.

I wouldn't underestimate the effect that cortisol plays in healthy responses to stress. And...cortisol ALSO has an
anti-inflammatory affect in the body. I have noticed that I feel a bit calmer since I began my HC treatment two
weeks ago. I am still on VERY LOW doses, but over time I will be able to report on how it is affecting my overall
energy, stress and sexually functioning.

Cortisol tests can reveal what level the adrenals are functioning at. I would encourage you to test your levels some
time and see where they are at. 

SOME GREAT ARTICLES ON THE POSITIVE EFFECTS OF LOW-DOSE CORTISOL on ADRENAL FATIGUE, CFS and PTSD

http://www.conscioushealing.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=57
http://trusted.md/blog/vreni_gurd/2008/01/18/cortisol_our_stress_hormone
http://www.ei-resource.org/news/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-news/cortisol-an-effective-treatment-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-and-fibromyalgia/
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/161/8/1488.pdf
http://www.forschungsportal.ch/unizh/p9731.htm
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 01:25:30 by girlwind »

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Offline SteveD

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Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #7 on: 13/02/2009 22:11:48 »
Girlwind,

So good to see you here


DIAGNOSTIC TEST LIST FOR HORMONAL and OTHER DEFICIENCIES

To check out if one's particular issue with sexual exhaustion or other related symptoms might have a physical
cause, it's a good idea to get ALL of one's HORMONES checked. Here is a list of the tests that I did, some of which
revealed clear deficiencies.

Hormone Tests

Free Cortisol and Cortisol--for adrenals
DHEA Sulphate--also for adrenals
Thyroid tests (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO-AB, Thyroglobulin AB, and Reverse T3),   
IGF-1 (that's growth hormone),
Free Testosterone,
Pregnenolone,
FSH and LH,
Estradiol, and
Progesterone.

Other useful diagnostic tests:

Serotonin (the feel-good neurotransmitter).
Vitamin D 25 hydroxy  (many people are deficient in Vit D)
RBC Magnesium (many people are also deficient in magnesium)
Total Iron; Iron Binding Capacity; and the Ferritin test--the main intracellular iron storage protein.
CBC (complete blood count), which is a panel of tests, that includes RBC and WBC,
the Complete Metabolic Panel--another panel of tests which checks out electrolytes, protein, and
   liver and kidney functions.

I have just this last Monday gotten free health insurance.In San Francisco all you have to be is a citizen and you are entitled to coverage...

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Offline SteveD

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Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #8 on: 13/02/2009 22:20:24 »
Whoops, accidentally posted...In any case, they have agreed to do:

CBC
CNP
Iron Panel
Lipid Panel
Vitamin D level
Vitamin B-12
but more interestingly also:
T4,Free
TSH, Ultrasensitive
T3, Total
Thyroid antibodies
and Testosterone, free and total

additionally they have outsourced an appointment with an Endo.

So I'm grateful for all that. I will ask for additional testing once I'm at the appointment

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Offline SteveD

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« Reply #9 on: 13/02/2009 22:38:40 »
Steve--
I think that your description as an allergic type reaction may be accurate for some POIS sufferers. I think that general sexual activity triggers POIS as well as orgasmic activity.

Underwater,

That's been my experience. I am really happy with the freedom from the devastating effects of orgasmic sexuality the last 21 months (as of yesterday...but who's counting!).But, there is more work to be done. I will not rest until all the negative effects of pre-orgasmic sexuality are eliminated from my life.

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Offline SteveD

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« Reply #10 on: 13/02/2009 22:44:36 »
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Sophiecentaur,

I'm curious about which techniques you are referring to as well.

SteveD.

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Offline demografx

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« Reply #11 on: 14/02/2009 02:32:40 »
Hi Steve, congratulations on the new thread.

Just wanted to say hi and best wishes to all.

Glad to see the message expand!
« Last Edit: 14/02/2009 02:35:40 by demografx »

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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #12 on: 14/02/2009 03:42:21 »
Girlwind,

I have just this last Monday gotten free health insurance.In San Francisco all you have to be is a citizen and you are entitled to coverage...

You're lucky. I'm in the Monterey Bay area and we don't have health care like that. I paid out of pocket for all my tests and
it cost me close to $2000.  However, I do think it's worth it to KNOW EXACTLY what is off, and to be able to address that in
whatever way one can to correct it. Your list looks like a good start, but I think some of the other hormone tests would be
helpful as well. Good luck with it.

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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #13 on: 14/02/2009 03:44:50 »
BASAL BODY TEMPERATURE TEST FOR THYROID

Also, there is a way to detect potential thyroid problems, by testing one's basal body temperature first thing 
in the a.m. Low body temperature in the morning is considered an indication of potential hypothyroidism.
If you take your basal body temperature with a glass thermometer first thing upon awakening, and it is below
97.4 degrees consistently for several days in a row, some thyroid experts say this can indicate your thyroid is
not working properly. Because thyroid is KEY to metabolism and energy functioning, I think it's a good idea
to know how well it's working. It will affect all the hormones if it's not at a healthy level.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/temperature-regulation-for-thyroid-testing.aspx
« Last Edit: 14/02/2009 03:47:21 by girlwind »

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Offline SteveD

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« Reply #14 on: 14/02/2009 04:35:03 »

Hi Steve, congratulations on the new thread.

Just wanted to say hi and best wishes to all.

Glad to see the message expand!

Thanks Demo. I'm grateful for the solid platform that the POIS thread has provided to so many people, me included.

Steve D.

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Offline SteveD

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« Reply #15 on: 14/02/2009 04:47:48 »
Girlwind,

I have just this last Monday gotten free health insurance.In San Francisco all you have to be is a citizen and you are entitled to coverage...

You're lucky. I'm in the Monterey Bay area and we don't have health care like that. I paid out of pocket for all my tests and
it cost me close to $2000.  However, I do think it's worth it to KNOW EXACTLY what is off, and to be able to address that in
whatever way one can to correct it. Your list looks like a good start, but I think some of the other hormone tests would be
helpful as well. Good luck with it.

I do feel lucky. I asked for the full battery of tests that you suggested at my designated 'home' clinic. They didn't feel comfortable ordering them. I showed them the Waldinger paper, but very liberal though they are, I think it was a bit too much for them , so they passed the ball to the Endo. I'll ask again then.

In the meantime, in therapy tonight, I negotiated some more 'rest' days in my relationship. What that means specifically is that , though we are committed to not being orgasmic as a solution to POIS ( as we have been for 21 months) during a 'rest' day there is no 1) non-orgasmic sexuality and 2) no sexually arousing behaviors...just friends and partners, together...to reduce the remaining symptoms to a more manageable level.

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Offline CertainlyPOIS

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« Reply #16 on: 14/02/2009 05:14:26 »
Hey guys we cant be breaking apart like this.  We are all perplexed by the same problem, we should be working together to finally reach a day when we all can say good byes with both smiles and tears on our face. It is too early for us to start separating. And we also dont have enough people and especially active people to separate like this.
I was just going to suggest Girlwind, Steve D and Demografx talk through their differences during pm inorder to bring the two forums back toghter.

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Offline SteveD

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« Reply #17 on: 14/02/2009 07:22:07 »
My partner and I talked at great length tonight about our objectives and we are clear that we want to do whatever is necessary to heal my illness. I am grateful to her for her willingness. We looked up the word science and found

sci·ence n
1.   the study of the physical world and its manifestations, especially by using systematic observation and experiment (often used before a noun)



For me, the obvious question is “If this makes you sick, why do you do it?”. To solve a problem I need to be honest with myself. So, this is as honest as I can be at the moment:

Two reasons:
First: sex feels great
Second: to avoid the great loneliness associated with surrendering relationship

So what to do? It seems to us that there are three solutions to this perplexing problem at the moment...and that may change with new information

1) Learn to live alone…
2) Be in a relationship with no sex…
3) Be in a relationship where there are periods of no sexual contact and accept that when there are periods of great sex that there will also be concurrent and consequent periods of sexual illness, and I'm talking about non-orgasmic sex

We have agreed that 'systematic observation and experiment' may help and are going to do that this week...A little science couldn't hurt.

Steve D.



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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #18 on: 14/02/2009 15:44:44 »
Hey guys we cant be breaking apart like this.  We are all perplexed by the same problem, we should be working together to finally reach a day when we all can say good
byes with both smiles and tears on our face. It is too early for us to start separating. And we also dont have enough people and especially active people to separate like
this. I was just going to suggest Girlwind, Steve D and Demografx talk through their differences during pm inorder to bring the two forums back toghter.

Some things work and some things don't. And it's good to have some of that "wisdom" to know the difference.

I'm excited to be part of this new forum. I see it providing an alternative to the POIS forum and an opportunity
to discuss more openly some of the issues that were dismissed too quickly as "frivolous" and/or argued away
as "scientifically untenable" on the other forum. My wish for all those who come here is that we have:

1) An INCLUSIONARY ATTITUDE pertaining to ALL ASPECTS of the "sexual illness syndrome"--both pre-orgasmic
and post-orgasmic, and anything in between.

2) A GREAT TOLERANCE for non-standard-medical thinking about answers to the above mentioned issue, not
just an assumption that because someone has a lot of AMA approved initials after their name, that their word is
somehow "the last word" on the subject, or qualified as "more superior" to the non-standard-medical  "word." 

3) SUPPORT & ENCOURAGEMENT, as well as a welcoming attitude, for those who recover using approaches that are
more holistically (non-standard-medically) oriented, and for those who are so diligently working on that. There is
a place for healthy skepticism, I will acknowledge that. But  too much suspicion and skepticism can be a destructive
alienating force, which can prevent people from being open and willing to share their stories. So I hope we can be
aware of that here.

4) ROOM FOR PERSONAL PERSPECTIVES on this issue. Because certain kinds of sex happen within "a context" of
some kind of "relationship," I very much appreciate hearing about how people deal with issues that come up with
their partners regarding these problems, how they negotiate them and work through them, or not.

Those are my needs, and will determine if I stick around or not. It takes A LOT of time and energy for me to write
up an informative intelligent post on these forums. Having serious limitations of each of the above, I don't want to
waste EITHER on things that don't work for me. But I will gladly give my input (from my 30 years of  experience
with information I've gleaned facing some very challenging health issues) on what I do know and what I'm learning
along the way.

So... What do you think, Steve?  How does this sound to you?
« Last Edit: 14/02/2009 17:07:50 by girlwind »

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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #19 on: 14/02/2009 17:11:57 »
My partner and I talked at great length tonight about our objectives and we are clear that we want to do whatever is necessary to heal my illness. I am grateful to her for her willingness.

So what to do? It seems to us that there are three solutions to this perplexing problem at the moment...and that may change with new information

1) Learn to live alone…
2) Be in a relationship with no sex…
3) Be in a relationship where there are periods of no sexual contact and accept that when there are periods of great sex that there will also be concurrent and consequent periods of sexual illness, and I'm talking about non-orgasmic sex

We have agreed that 'systematic observation and experiment' may help and are going to do that this week...A little science couldn't hurt.

Steve D.

Thanks for sharing this, Steve. Willingness for investigation is always a good thing. I'm glad to hear you have a compassionate
and understanding partner. I have this too, and it makes all the difference in the world.

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Offline SteveD

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« Reply #20 on: 14/02/2009 21:22:35 »
Hey guys we cant be breaking apart like this.  We are all perplexed by the same problem, we should be working together to finally reach a day when we all can say good
byes with both smiles and tears on our face. It is too early for us to start separating. And we also dont have enough people and especially active people to separate like
this. I was just going to suggest Girlwind, Steve D and Demografx talk through their differences during pm inorder to bring the two forums back toghter.

Some things work and some things don't. And it's good to have some of that "wisdom" to know the difference.

I'm excited to be part of this new forum. I see it providing an alternative to the POIS forum and an opportunity
to discuss more openly some of the issues that were dismissed too quickly as "frivolous" and/or argued away
as "scientifically untenable" on the other forum. My wish for all those who come here is that we have:

1) An INCLUSIONARY ATTITUDE pertaining to ALL ASPECTS of the "sexual illness syndrome"--both pre-orgasmic
and post-orgasmic, and anything in between.

2) A GREAT TOLERANCE for non-standard-medical thinking about answers to the above mentioned issue, not
just an assumption that because someone has a lot of AMA approved initials after their name, that their word is
somehow "the last word" on the subject, or qualified as "more superior" to the non-standard-medical  "word." 

3) SUPPORT & ENCOURAGEMENT, as well as a welcoming attitude, for those who recover using approaches that are
more holistically (non-standard-medically) oriented, and for those who are so diligently working on that. There is
a place for healthy skepticism, I will acknowledge that. But  too much suspicion and skepticism can be a destructive
alienating force, which can prevent people from being open and willing to share their stories. So I hope we can be
aware of that here.

4) ROOM FOR PERSONAL PERSPECTIVES on this issue. Because certain kinds of sex happen within "a context" of
some kind of "relationship," I very much appreciate hearing about how people deal with issues that come up with
their partners regarding these problems, how they negotiate them and work through them, or not.

Those are my needs, and will determine if I stick around or not. It takes A LOT of time and energy for me to write
up an informative intelligent post on these forums. Having serious limitations of each of the above, I don't want to
waste EITHER on things that don't work for me. But I will gladly give my input (from my 30 years of  experience
with information I've gleaned facing some very challenging health issues) on what I do know and what I'm learning
along the way.

So... What do you think, Steve?  How does this sound to you?


I am humbled by the eloquence and comprehensiveness of your words, and could not agree with you more.

Steve D.

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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #21 on: 14/02/2009 21:46:19 »
I am humbled by the eloquence and comprehensiveness of your words, and could not agree with you more.

Steve D.

Thank you. I'm glad we're on the same page.
Happy Valentine's Day to you and your sweetie.

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Offline SteveD

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« Reply #22 on: 15/02/2009 23:10:43 »
My partner and I talked at great length tonight about our objectives and we are clear that we want to do whatever is necessary to heal my illness. I am grateful to her for her willingness. We have agreed that 'systematic observation and experiment' may help and are going to do that this week...A little science couldn't hurt.
Steve D.

Thanks for sharing this, Steve. Willingness for investigation is always a good thing.

Girlwind.

My partner and I experimented with surrendering genital contact and arousal behaviors yesterday-on Valentine's Day. I personally think that romance is sublimated sexuality and it manifested positively, for us, in roses, a card and a diamond ring. We then went to church, a party and stayed the night together, all while being abstemious...and not surprisingly there were no signs of pre orgasmic sexual depletion. Neither of us plan to do this forever, but it's nice to know that, until there is another fool proof solution, that there is a way, difficult though it may be, to be totally well. I am grateful, humbled and thankful for her willingness.

Steve D.

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Offline underwater

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« Reply #23 on: 16/02/2009 00:55:44 »
Environmental Toxins and Sexual Dysfunction:
The other day I was thinking about the onset of GAD and possibly related sexual symptoms. 25 years ago I taught in a building for 3-4 years. Directly under the floor where I worked there were constant smells of skunk and other vermin. The administration sprayed on a regular basis. This lasted for the entire time I was there. Now as I recall, I periodically got drowsy and often felt extreme nervousness. This time period just happened to coincide with the onset of a serious panic/anxiety disorder and perhaps a related sexual dysfunction. I was prescribed powerful drugs by my psychiatrist at the time. In fact, it was in this building that I had an actual breakdown and had to seek help. I guess this question is for Girlwind: Do you think such exposure to these toxins (I don't know what they used) were powerful enough to cause Central Nervous System disruptions? I recall that these sprays had a terrible smell, but it didn't keep the skunks from returning in a few weeks.

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« Reply #24 on: 16/02/2009 17:30:01 »
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Sophiecentaur,

I'm curious about which techniques you are referring to as well.

SteveD.
When couples go to their Doctor about sexual matters it often turns out that they are actually 'doing it' in very unorthodox ways. For instance, it is often thought that you need to go 'hammer and tongs' in order to achieve or give 'satisfaction'. The content of lot of Porn would seem to confirm this (so I'm told!).
I was just wondering whether there may be something you could do about your problem by trying a range of alternative ways of getting and giving pleasure. It may, of course, be a problem which can't be solved in a straightforward way but I would always advise avoiding the 'big guns' of medicine until you've tried a few alternatives, yourself. Somehow, 'going to the Doctor' sets you on the 'ill' side of a line when you may not have been, initially.

Sex Therapy can be viewed as a joke cliche but it certainly manages to help some people. (Never used it  or sold it, I hasten to add - so this is not an advert.) Perhaps you could try - or there are acres and acres of bookshelves full  of serious treatments of the topic.

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Offline girlwind

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« Reply #25 on: 16/02/2009 18:44:45 »
Environmental Toxins and Sexual Dysfunction:
The other day I was thinking about the onset of GAD and possibly related sexual symptoms. 25 years ago I taught in a building for 3-4 years. Directly under the floor where I worked there were constant smells of skunk and other vermin. The administration sprayed on a regular basis. This lasted for the entire time I was there. Now as I recall, I periodically got drowsy and often felt extreme nervousness. This time period just happened to coincide with the onset of a serious panic/anxiety disorder and perhaps a related sexual dysfunction. I was prescribed powerful drugs by my psychiatrist at the time. In fact, it was in this building that I had an actual breakdown and had to seek help. I guess this question is for Girlwind: Do you think such exposure to these toxins (I don't know what they used) were powerful enough to cause Central Nervous System disruptions? I recall that these sprays had a terrible smell, but it didn't keep the skunks from returning in a few weeks.


Underwater---

This is something that I (unfortunately) have a lot of personal first hand experience with. In the late
1980's I had a MAJOR chemical exposure due to a neighbor's MASS spraying of a now banned toxic
chemical--for termite control.

So the answer to your question is a resounding yes... toxins can wreak total HELL on your body, espe-
cially on your nervous and endocrine systems. As a matter of fact, the very WORST symptoms that I
had both immediately during and for many years after this "poisoning" episode were neurological and
brain related ones.

Though I am certainly much healthier now, I think that I still suffer the after-effects of that "poisoning"
episode, and I think many of those effects are still apparent in my neuro-endocrine system, which in-
cludes the pre and post orgasmic symptoms we are addressing in this forum. There is so very much
I have learned about this topic over the years! In my next post I will list some of the better sources of
information you can check out to learn more about how your past exposure could be affecting you,
and what you might be able to do about it.
 
« Last Edit: 17/02/2009 05:02:29 by girlwind »

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« Reply #26 on: 16/02/2009 19:04:26 »
ARTICLES ON THE EFFECTS OF TOXINS ON THE NEURO and ENDOCRINE SYSTEMS

The Effect of Neurotoxins on Human Health
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/4301/sd19.html

The Effect of Endocrine Disruptors
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/qendoc.asp

Emerging Science On the Impact of Endocrine Disruptors On Intelligence and Behavior
http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/behavior/behav.htm



What Is Body Burden?
http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/whatisbb.htm

Polluted Bodies (SF Chroncile article on a 2003 study of "body burden" chemicals found in humans--
done by the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in conjunction with the Environmental Working Group)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/02/03/ED162110.DTL

Chemical Trespass: (Pesticides In Our Bodies and Corporate Accountability)
http://www.panna.org/docsTrespass/chemicalTrespass2004.dv.html



The Body Burden Toxins Test
http://blog.gaiam.com/blog/whats-your-body-burden-take-the-toxins-test/

The Ten Most Important Foods To But Organic
http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/eorganic.htm


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« Reply #27 on: 16/02/2009 21:46:02 »
Girlwind--
I very much appreciate your response and all the references you have given.
I will begin to review them shortly---
Believe it or not, I have not swum in two weeks! I am trying to add rest to my therapies regarding all my conditions. I have replaced swimming however with long, easygoing walks. I also am worried about chlorine. I probably will return to the pool in due course, but who knows?
Thanks, and continued success with your experimentations-----------

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« Reply #28 on: 17/02/2009 07:11:35 »
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Sophiecentaur,

I'm curious about which techniques you are referring to as well.

SteveD.
When couples go to their Doctor about sexual matters it often turns out that they are actually 'doing it' in very unorthodox ways. For instance, it is often thought that you need to go 'hammer and tongs' in order to achieve or give 'satisfaction'. The content of lot of Porn would seem to confirm this (so I'm told!).
I was just wondering whether there may be something you could do about your problem by trying a range of alternative ways of getting and giving pleasure. It may, of course, be a problem which can't be solved in a straightforward way but I would always advise avoiding the 'big guns' of medicine until you've tried a few alternatives, yourself. Somehow, 'going to the Doctor' sets you on the 'ill' side of a line when you may not have been, initially.

Sex Therapy can be viewed as a joke cliche but it certainly manages to help some people. (Never used it  or sold it, I hasten to add - so this is not an advert.) Perhaps you could try - or there are acres and acres of bookshelves full  of serious treatments of the topic.


SophieCentaur,

For me , the requirements of any healthy relationship is the honest and open communication of feelings. Whether it be father/daughter, student/teacher, close friends, therapist/ client, or lovers and partners. I then find that adding commitment to this emotional intimacy creates the two conditions necessary for me to be open to being sexual...Those are prerequisites, for me. To answer your question "I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'?" My partner and I are rather technically conventional for a heterosexual couple. We employ normal penal/vaginal, oral and manual techniques. So, what I'm experiencing is something different. I view it like alcoholism. An alcoholic, who drinks, experiences an "allergic' reaction to alcohol which is not what normal people experience when they drink. The only real solution is complete abstinence. That is how I experience orgasm. So I have stayed away from that for 21 months and plan to continue to do so. The challenge, as for an alcoholic, is to learn to live life happily, joyously and freely having surrendered whatever is causing the pain.

Steve D.

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« Reply #29 on: 17/02/2009 07:18:31 »
Believe it or not, I have not swum in two weeks! I also am worried about chlorine. I probably will return to the pool in due course, but who knows?

Underwater,

I have found a pool which uses saline instead of chlorine. It's easier on the skin and they can keep the water several degrees warmer. It's expensive,but, for me, it's worth it.

Steve D.

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« Reply #30 on: 17/02/2009 07:27:00 »
Environmental Toxins and Sexual Dysfunction:
The other day I was thinking about the onset of GAD and possibly related sexual symptoms. 25 years ago I taught in a building for 3-4 years. Directly under the floor where I worked there were constant smells of skunk and other vermin. The administration sprayed on a regular basis. This lasted for the entire time I was there. Now as I recall, I periodically got drowsy and often felt extreme nervousness. This time period just happened to coincide with the onset of a serious panic/anxiety disorder and perhaps a related sexual dysfunction. I was prescribed powerful drugs by my psychiatrist at the time. In fact, it was in this building that I had an actual breakdown and had to seek help. I guess this question is for Girlwind: Do you think such exposure to these toxins (I don't know what they used) were powerful enough to cause Central Nervous System disruptions? I recall that these sprays had a terrible smell, but it didn't keep the skunks from returning in a few weeks.


Underwater---
So the answer to your question is a resounding yes... toxins can wreak total HELL on your body, espe-
cially on your nervous and endocrine systems.

Girlwind,

I saw an earlier edition of this post which mentioned environmental effects. That was absolutely my experience. I spent  20 years working on my spiritual life, and stayed so focused on the 'inside job' that I did not notice I was living in an environmental sewer. Atlanta, where I lived for 25 years, has the second worst air pollution in the US. I finally looked up and saw what was going on...that's the reason I moved to San Francisco...The air!


PS It's good to be posting again!

Steve D.

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« Reply #31 on: 17/02/2009 07:32:34 »
The Ten Most Important Foods To But Organic
http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/eorganic.htm

Girlwind,

My partner and I just read this together and loved it...We're hard core organics ourselves.

Thanks,

Steve and Diane

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« Reply #32 on: 17/02/2009 19:18:08 »

Girlwind,

I saw an earlier edition of this post which mentioned environmental effects. That was absolutely my experience. I spent  20 years working on my spiritual life, and stayed so focused on the 'inside job' that I did not notice I was living in an environmental sewer. Atlanta, where I lived for 25 years, has the second worst air pollution in the US. I finally looked up and saw what was going on...that's the reason I moved to San Francisco...The air!

PS It's good to be posting again!

Steve D.

I had to take off my long post about the details of the hell I went through after that chemical exposure.
It brings back too many bad memories. So many people did NOT believe that I COULD HAVE become ill
from a toxic exposure. They insisted it was all caused by DEPRESSION, and wanted to medicate me for
it. The worst part is that I was so vulnerable at the time, that I almost bought into that. That is the kind
of internalizing that can kill you! If I had tried to "process it" exclusively as a psychological phenomenon
and not dealt with the physical causes, I would not have lived to tell the story of my recovery.

I think that's why I feel so strongly about dealing with the physical on its own terms, with the orgasmic
issue as well. I agree with you totally that willing acceptance (of that we cannot YET change) is the best
way to go. Even though I have made some progress in alleviating some of the more extreme symptoms
of POIS, I haven't arrived at a consistent "cure." Not until I know that I'm at at that place of total healing,
do I want to experiment with my fragile energy.


PS I didn't know Atlanta was so polluted! But San Francisco, in places, isn't that great either. Though I
suppose it's probably pretty good for a city. What matters is that it works well for you.



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« Reply #33 on: 18/02/2009 04:56:38 »
Montery & San Francisco,
I could have guessed! Two of my favorite places. I once bought a 20 lb. book near Cannery Row and dragged it to San Francisco. The book contained engravings from around 1800, and about 50 were engraved by William Blake. These were from his original plates!!! William was frequently ill from the physical and spiritual pollution of London. He would have loved these discussions. Love in the sense that they would illuminate the mind and spirit despite the discomfort and pain of the subjects themselves. Steve, thanks for the saline pool suggestion. Right now however, my daily 2 hr. walks on the beach are divine. And Girlwind, some of my most enjoyable runs were in Monterrey. My second to last run of my life was in Monterrey four years ago. My very last one was in San Francisco two days later. If I recall, the poem "London" by Blake reveals his views of the human mind and the cultural difficulties related to sexuality.   

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« Reply #34 on: 18/02/2009 09:36:41 »
I had to take off my long post about the details of the hell I went through after that chemical exposure.
It brings back too many bad memories. So many people did NOT believe that I COULD HAVE become ill
from a toxic exposure. They insisted it was all caused by DEPRESSION, and wanted to medicate me for
it. The worst part is that I was so vulnerable at the time, that I almost bought into that. That is the kind
of internalizing that can kill you!

Girlwind

I'm glad you saved yourself from their fatuous madness. Martin Luther King used to say "Sincere ignorance is the truest form of evil".

Steve D.

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« Reply #35 on: 18/02/2009 09:51:39 »
'Math is the queen of sciences' 
 Dr. Caras ,CDC, Atlanta Ga.

Just need to check in...

Spent the day chaste by choice. Did three hours of prayer, two hours of meditating and one hour of swimming all in prep for a public speaking event tonight. It went very well and people got a message of healing, hope and humor. It was worth the sacrifice and work. The pre-orgasmic illness was completely absent which made me completely present.

I feel pleased, grateful and successful.

Steve D.


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« Reply #36 on: 18/02/2009 15:39:53 »
SOME USEFUL INFO. IN PREPARATION OF DOCTOR VISITS:

Hey Steve--I think you mentioned you were going in for a doctor visit some time soon, so here's some ideas that
might be helpful for you in that process.

I think it's always a good idea to be VERY WELL PREPARED for medical appointments, with as much of your own
personal medical data as possible. Since, your doctor will be working FOR YOU, just like any other "contractor,"
it's good to let her/him know early on in the visit what your key concerns are. For this reason I would consider
writing up a brief AGENDA for the doctor appointment, with a list of priorities that you wish to cover and any
questions you want to be sure to ask, and making two copies of it--one for you, one for the doctor. Because
some doctors can be quick to make their OWN agenda during visits with them, dismissing some of the patient's
needs in the process, I am a big advocate of the patient making clear his/her agenda early on. Also, it ensures
that you won't forget all that you want to cover with the doctor, including any of THE DIAGNOSTIC TESTS you'd
like to request.

In addition, it's helpful to bring: 

1) copies of any PAST BLOOD TEST RESULTS,
2) a type-written CHRONOLOGICAL MEDICAL HISTORY, and
3) a separate page with the MAIN CURRENT SYMPTOMS, including brief explanations about each of them,
4) a list of ALL MEDICATIONS AND SUPPLEMENTS that you've tried, both ones that have and haven't been effective.

I've seen A LOT of doctors over the years, and I've always done better when I came in to the appointment really
well-prepared, with my health concerns well documented, and my questions typed out.
« Last Edit: 18/02/2009 15:54:00 by girlwind »

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« Reply #37 on: 18/02/2009 15:41:41 »
I'm glad you saved yourself from their fatuous madness. Martin Luther King used to say "Sincere ignorance is the truest form of evil".

Steve D.

That's a great quote. I'm going to remember it! thanks

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« Reply #38 on: 19/02/2009 05:35:44 »
Girlwind,

Thanks for the tip. I'll be prepared. Called my home clinic to find out the date of my Endo appointment , but no call back, yet.

I've been taking a 'fearless and searching moral inventory' of my food the last 3 weeks (moral=healthy, here) Weighing and measuring using a digital scale, using a food plan, following it strictly and notating the numbers afterward, as well. I'm lean and muscular but my weight used to fluctuated 2-8 pounds very easily.

As the anemia is gone, the POIS is at bay and my weight is very stable I feel like a new man. Hell... I feel almost normal!

Steve D.



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« Reply #39 on: 19/02/2009 05:45:55 »

What Is Body Burden?
http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/whatisbb.htm


The Body Burden Toxins Test
http://blog.gaiam.com/blog/whats-your-body-burden-take-the-toxins-test/



Girlwind,

My partner and I read these tonight and concurred...crucial stuff. Thanks.

Steve and Diane

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« Reply #40 on: 21/02/2009 04:18:19 »
Check in:

Challenging day...My daughter has a serious staff infection and needed to be taken to the hospital for treatment. I raised her by myself and her welfare is important to me.
No pre or post orgasmic illness symptoms today, just life on life's terms...and it's a beautiful, breezy day her in SF, for which I am grateful

Girlwind,

Food is a big issue with me so I started another thread 9 days ago for people interested in using wheatgrass as a healing food. Check it out and see what you think.

Steve

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=20278.0

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« Reply #41 on: 21/02/2009 06:11:46 »
Girlwind,

Food is a big issue with me so I started another thread 9 days ago for people interested in using wheatgrass as a healing food.
Check it out and see what you think.

Steve

Hmmmm... wheat grass is not that interesting of a topic to me. I eat what I feel I need and don't try
to be too strict about it. Right now my main focus is on getting my hormones balanced. Many years
(30 actually) of supplements and all organic eating routines have NOT done the trick to heal me of
CFS or POIS, so it was time to expand my repertoire to the bio-identical hormones and see what they
can do for me.

I am beginning my fourth week of HC (hydrocortisone) and feel a little more stamina than usual. And
soon I will add the thyroid hormone and see what happens.

Good luck with the wheat grass, and with the skeptics who are arguing with you about its effectiveness.   [:)]

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« Reply #42 on: 21/02/2009 06:47:15 »

Hmmmm... wheat grass is not that interesting of a topic to me. I eat what I feel I need and don't try
to be too strict about it. Right now my main focus is on getting my hormones balanced. Many years
(30 actually) of supplements and all organic eating routines have NOT done the trick to heal me of
CFS or POIS, so it was time to expand my repertoire to the bio-identical hormones and see what they
can do for me.

I am beginning my fourth week of HC (hydrocortisone) and feel a little more stamina than usual. And
soon I will add the thyroid hormone and see what happens.

Good luck with the wheat grass, and with the skeptics who are arguing with you about its effectiveness.   [:)]

Girlwind

I'm used to fools, so I don't listen much to them.

I'm quite interested in pursuing the hormonal possibilities. I called my 'home' clinic Glide Memorial ,yesterday and the Endo has asked the Nurse Practitioner a question that apparently she must answer before he agrees to the appointment. Anyway that's what the gal in charge of appointments said yesterday, So we'll see.

Good luck on the HC . Let me know how that works out for you.

Steve D.

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« Reply #43 on: 21/02/2009 17:26:12 »
Girlwind

I'm used to fools, so I don't listen much to them.

I'm quite interested in pursuing the hormonal possibilities. I called my 'home' clinic Glide Memorial ,yesterday and the Endo has asked the Nurse Practitioner a question that apparently she must answer before he agrees to the appointment. Anyway that's what the gal in charge of appointments said yesterday, So we'll see.

Good luck on the HC . Let me know how that works out for you.

Steve D.

I'm glad that "the fools" don't tweak you out too much. That's a good thing.

HERE'S MY THOUGHTS ON "DIET"

Diet is so BIG of a topic, one that I have explored SO MUCH in my past, that I'm not inclined to give it
much more of that obsessive attention I used to. I probably tried all the fad New Age diets at one point
or another--from macrobiotics and being vegan, to egg-and-fish only vegetarianism, from all cooked
food with lots of medicinal herbs (TCM inspired), to all raw (which lasted about a week, due to the fact
that I was FREEZING COLD from it).... etc....

I was so ill and so debilitated that I would have tried ANYTHING that anyone suggested in order to get
my health back. Even standing on my head and gargling with peanut butter! But I have to say that no
diet was enough to correct some of the BIG imbalances in my body. No matter how "perfectly" I did the
diets, they all failed to heal me of CFS. They just were NOT enough. (That's where the supplements and
Chinese herbs and acupuncture did help--without them I would have remained mostly void of energy.)

After 20 years of listening to other people's theories and ideologies about what was RIGHT & WRONG to
eat, I finally got to a place where I began trust my own body and my very clean palate to tell me what I
needed. At this point I haven't eaten "junk"--sugar loaded, processed foods, and hardly anything in a
"package" for a few decades. I eat all fresh, organic, and mostly cooked food in winter; much more raw
food in warmer months. I avoid grains, eat few  "sweets," like fruits and sweet vegetables with a high
glycemic index (carrots, beets, parsnips), alcohol and stimulants with caffeine or chocolate, except on
special occasions. The sugar content in those foods does not work for my metabolism, and I know that
because I almost always become hungry after a predominantly grain meal, or one where there is too
much "sweet" food. The mainstay of my diet is vegetables, both raw and cooked, and decent amounts
of protein from animal sources at each meal--eggs, meat and some raw goat dairy products. In winter
I long-cook big pots of soup--with the bones, and lots of garlic and spices added to keep me toasty and
warm. And in summer I make big rich smoothies: my favorite is with avocados, tomatoes and cukes fresh
from my garden, a little salt, and lots of cayenne powder. I call them guacamole smoothies. Those are so
good, and as filling as a big meal.

Mostly, I eat as above, but I'm not rigid about my own rules. If my body says... I need bananas... then
I go out and get some, and eat one a day until I feel the craving diminish. I know when I eat the "wrong"
thing for me, because my body will tell me LOUDLY by: 1) an obvious drop in my energy 2) a negative
change in my mood, like in cranky and/or depressed not long after eating, or 3) a feeling of not being
satisfied, of having on-going hunger and food cravings soon after a meal.

Wheat grass comes and goes for me, as necessary. If I want it, I can buy it fresh squeezed at the deli at
the health food store. But my preference is fresh wild greens--picked in early spring. My partner knows
where to find the best ones: nettles, sorrel, fresh radish and mustard greens. They are coming up right
now. And.. these last two weeks I have been jonesing for the collards from the farmer's market--yum!
So good cooked with a little olive oil and some garlic!

So that is my treatise on food. I have said enough, and now I'm off to cook my special recipe for Indian
style curried chicken.  I'm having some guests for dinner tonight--my birthday was this week. Bon appetite!


« Last Edit: 21/02/2009 17:37:53 by girlwind »

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« Reply #44 on: 22/02/2009 08:34:40 »

HERE'S MY THOUGHTS ON "DIET"

>>>>I was so ill and so debilitated that I would have tried ANYTHING that anyone suggested in order to get
my health back. Even standing on my head and gargling with peanut butter!

LOL!!!!!!


>>>> But I have to say that no
diet was enough (That's where the supplements and
Chinese herbs and acupuncture did help--without them I would have remained mostly void of energy.)

I do acupuncture four times a week and drink a Chinese herbal teas made of 12 herbs and roots and drink four ounces three times a day...really helps.
As far as supplements I take iron, B-12, vitamin D, cod liver oil in the morning and again at night cod liver oil, Multi vitamin , B complex and tonight added C and nutritional yeast


>>>>After 20 years of listening to other people's theories and ideologies about what was RIGHT & WRONG to
eat, I finally got to a place where I began trust my own body and my very clean palate to tell me what I
needed. I eat all fresh, organic, and mostly cooked food in winter; much more raw
food in warmer months.

That sounds like wisdom


>>>I avoid grains,

me, too


>>>eat few  "sweets,

ditto


>>>no alcohol and stimulants with caffeine or chocolate,

I can't do any of these. I have a very strong allergic reaction


>> In winter I long-cook big pots of soup--with the bones, and lots of garlic and spices added to keep me toasty and
warm. And in summer I make big rich smoothies: my favorite is with avocados, tomatoes and cukes fresh
from my garden, a little salt, and lots of cayenne powder. I call them guacamole smoothies. Those are so
good, and as filling as a big meal.

This sounds delicious


>>>>>Mostly, I eat as above, but I'm not rigid about my own rules. If my body says... I need bananas... then
I go out and get some, and eat one a day until I feel the craving diminish. I know when I eat the "wrong"
thing for me, because my body will tell me LOUDLY by: 1) an obvious drop in my energy 2) a negative
change in my mood, like in cranky and/or depressed not long after eating, or 3) a feeling of not being
satisfied, of having on-going hunger and food cravings soon after a meal.

There is such intuitive wisdom, here


>>> But my preference is fresh wild greens--picked in early spring. My partner knows
where to find the best ones: nettles, sorrel, fresh radish and mustard greens. They are coming up right
now.

Where does he find these things?


>>>my birthday was this week

Happy Birthday


>>>>>So that is my treatise on food.

Thanks Girlwind that was delightful

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« Reply #45 on: 22/02/2009 08:41:11 »
My partner and I agreed, at my request, on a 'rest day' today...No arousal behaviors. I needed to garner my energy for a big teaching day tomorrow.

We went to church instead, did yoga for an hour together, I practiced Hendrix tunes I'll teach tomorrow while she cleaned up the dinner I made her while she napped earlier.

It was a very nice night...

POIS is dead and buried and I am free...

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« Reply #46 on: 22/02/2009 18:36:12 »
>>> But my preference is fresh wild greens--picked in early spring. My partner knows
where to find the best ones: nettles, sorrel, fresh radish and mustard greens. They are coming up right
now.

Where does he find these things?

Thanks Girlwind that was delightful

Many greens can be found growing wild all over the Bay Area. You just want to be sure to pick them
"off trail" so they aren't contaminated by car exhaust, dog piss, etc. I'm sure the Mt. Tam area has lots.
They're growing rapidly right now because of the recent rain, and will be too big--less tasty and more
tough if they're picked at a later stage in their growth. I'm lucky that my partner is a naturalist and has
a lot of experience picking wild foods--mushrooms, greens, and blackberries in summer, with which
he makes the most amazing desserts. I am less knowledgeable about these things, but learning as I go.

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« Reply #47 on: 22/02/2009 18:50:57 »
Check in:

My partner and I have agreed to another 'rest day' today and I will request another for tomorrow (Monday) because I am going to do a large public speaking event. I find consistently that when I need extra sparkle in my personal performance that I can reach down deep inside of me and find it in the restrained, pooled, redirected energy that is sexual energy inside of me. I am so grateful that I have this energy revenue source...Not that I don't love sex, I surely do!

Steve D.

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Offline girlwind

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Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #48 on: 22/02/2009 21:12:27 »

I find consistently that when I need extra sparkle in my personal performance that I can reach down deep inside of me and find it in
the restrained, pooled, redirected energy that is sexual energy inside of me. I am so grateful that I have this energy revenue source...
Not that I don't love sex, I surely do!


I see sexual energy like extra money in the bank. If you spend it unwisely, you're "screwed." AND you pay for it
later. I'm glad you have the discipline  to manage it like you do. Me too. I can't afford the loss it entails when I'm
wasted from an orgasm. Even though I have made progress, it's still nebulous and I don't want to risk the level of
exhaustion that comes when my body can't afford to lose that reserve. I'm hoping my ongoing hormone therapy
will resolve this and give me back the energy I need not just for sex, but for better overall functioning. That would
be a real healing for me.


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Offline SteveD

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Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
« Reply #49 on: 22/02/2009 22:14:12 »

I see sexual energy like extra money in the bank. If you spend it unwisely, you're "screwed." AND you pay for it
later. I'm glad you have the discipline  to manage it like you do. Me too. I can't afford the loss it entails when I'm
wasted from an orgasm.


Girlwind,

To be perfectly frank, your capacity to manage your sexuality ( here defined as being sexual, but not orgasmic) is what attracted me to your "recovery" from POIS  above all the others I've communicated with online about this subject. Your willingness to let go of what was hurting you and yet stay faithful to your relationship is commendable and noteworthy...Hell, it's just plain, old fashioned courage.

Steve D.