What would happen to me if I stand before LHC particles which travel with C ?

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ScientificBoysClub

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What would happen to me if I stand before LHC particles collide with C ?
 

if I stood before a particle traveling with high velocity as light (C) ... what would happen if they will collide with my atoms which r present in my body ?
« Last Edit: 01/03/2009 12:36:10 by ScientificBoysClub »

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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I don't think you would enjoy the experience and I would strongly advise against trying it. You may find that nasty things would happen to the atoms in your body.

The LHC smashes particles together and as a result they get rather splattered. I hate to imagine what would happen to you if the particles inside you were splattered the same way.
« Last Edit: 01/03/2009 12:46:45 by DoctorBeaver »
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Offline ukmicky

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Im probably wrong but wouldnt the particles  fired by the LHC just go straight through you leaving very little evidence of their passage .

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Offline yor_on

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" particle traveling with high velocity as light (C) " can only mean one thing SBC and that's light, or in this case, 'hard radiation' very energetic radiation as X-rays or gamma rays. The term 'hard' is meant to depict its ability to penetrate thick isolation, for example a lead shield. Standing in front of that kind of radiation has already been done, at Hiroshima and Nagasaki for example, with disastrous effects on life.

So even though that beams thickness might be very small it might introduce genetic changes in your cells, like cancer.
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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" particle traveling with high velocity as light (C) " can only mean one thing SBC and that's light

The LHC will collide protons or heavy ions.
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Offline syhprum

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The unfortunate jr member of the Scientific BoysClub would have 350MJ of energy dumped into him with unpleasant results.

http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch/lhc-machine-outreach/components/beam-dump.htm
syhprum

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Is that what the CERN community call having a dump?  [;D]
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Offline Bored chemist

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How much of the beam's energy would be dissipated and how much would be still carried by the protons after they had gone through you?
After all, as someone has already said, you need a lot of sheilding to stop that beam. A person wouldn't stop it, they would just slow it down a bit.

It still wouldn't be a good idea to try it.

Incidentally, how do you stand in front of a circle?
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Offline lightarrow

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What would happen to me if I stand before LHC particles collide with C ?
 

if I stood before a particle traveling with high velocity as light (C) ... what would happen if they will collide with my atoms which r present in my body ?
Essentially, you would feel the effects of an exposition to radiation: vomit, loose of hairs, ecc ecc.

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Offline JP

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When I did a bit of undergraduate research at the particle accelerator in Fermilab, I heard stories about someone who had been zapped with such a beam.  Thanks to the wonders of Wikipedia, I can now get more info on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Bugorski

It sounds like a combination of having a hole burned in you by the beam itself and radiation exposure.  Ouch!

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Ouch indeed  [xx(]
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Offline yor_on

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LHC Mr Beaver will get ..no.. particles up to 'c'.

If that particular particle isn't a boson, naturally.
In which case I will be wrong, but yet, so very right.
As that, that, is light:)
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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I never said the particles would reach c and I know that they can't. They will reach 0.999997828 c. (Someone else can work out what that is in metres per second [:P] )
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Offline yor_on

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DB.
With all proper respect, I absolutely refuse to 'work that one out' :)
My head is nowadays a vacant lot still waiting for the tenant to come home ::))
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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LeeE likes maths. He can do it [;D]
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Offline lightarrow

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When I did a bit of undergraduate research at the particle accelerator in Fermilab, I heard stories about someone who had been zapped with such a beam.  Thanks to the wonders of Wikipedia, I can now get more info on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoli_Bugorski
What amazes me (among other things) about him and his accident, is this:

"In 1996, he applied unsuccessfully for disabled status, to receive his free epilepsy medication".

So, in Russia you are not considered disabled even after been shot by a "particle beam cannon"!
« Last Edit: 02/03/2009 16:11:35 by lightarrow »

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Offline lightarrow

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I never said the particles would reach c and I know that they can't. They will reach 0.999997828 c. (Someone else can work out what that is in metres per second [:P] )
299,791,806.850781224 m/s

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Offline syhprum

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Proton beams are used for the destruction of cancer tumours where they have the advantage of being well focused and stopping at the appropriate depth.
I understand that a beam energy of 25 to 250 Mev is used somewhat less than is available from the LHC.
It has been suggested that antiprotons be used but due to the high cost of generating them it has not been tested.   
syhprum

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Offline ukmicky

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From someone with very little knowledge of sub atomic particles, how small is one of these protons fired by the LHC and how many are being fired. Because I thought a proton was so small that they would pass through us without interacting with the Atoms that we are made of, with very little change of hitting anything.
If they are as small as i think how would they discharge any of their energy if we were to stand in their way.

« Last Edit: 02/03/2009 18:17:52 by ukmicky »

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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I never said the particles would reach c and I know that they can't. They will reach 0.999997828 c. (Someone else can work out what that is in metres per second [:P] )
299,791,806.850781224 m/s



I assume that is the speed in a vacuum. Now what is it in water at sea-level?  [;D]
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Offline JP

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From someone with very little knowledge of sub atomic particles, how small is one of these protons fired by the LHC and how many are being fired. Because I thought a proton was so small that they would pass through us without interacting with the toms that we are made of, with very little change of hitting anything.
If they are as small as i think how would they discharge any of their energy if we were to stand in their way.

As far as subatomic particles go, protons are large, massive, and have a charge.  These three things make them pretty dangerous.

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Offline Bored chemist

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LHC Mr Beaver will get ..no.. particles up to 'c'.

If that particular particle isn't a boson, naturally.
In which case I will be wrong, but yet, so very right.
As that, that, is light:)

The LHC will produce stacks of synchrotron radiation all of which will travel at C (at least while it's still in the vacuum chamber).
I strongly suspect that more photons of radiation will be emited than protons (pr whatever) will be accelerated so the great majority of the particles leaving the LHC will be photons moving at C.

Incidentally, since you are largely made of protons the chance for energy transfer from a fast proton to you is rather large.

In water at sea level the speed is about 3/4 times C- it depends on the teperature. Since the beam from the LHC has a kinetic energy roughly equivaenet to a speeding train and yet it's only a milimetre or so across, the water isn't likely to stay at room temperature for long.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2009 19:19:49 by Bored chemist »
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Apparently the beam will have the energy of a Subaru Impreza being driven at 1,700kph
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Offline lightarrow

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Apparently the beam will have the energy of a Subaru Impreza being driven at 1,700kph
Do you want to put an LHC under your car's bonnet?  [:)]

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Offline lightarrow

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I never said the particles would reach c and I know that they can't. They will reach 0.999997828 c. (Someone else can work out what that is in metres per second [:P] )
299,791,806.850781224 m/s



I assume that is the speed in a vacuum. Now what is it in water at sea-level?  [;D]
299,791,806.850781224/1.333 m/s = 224,900,080.15812544936234058514629 m/s

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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I never said the particles would reach c and I know that they can't. They will reach 0.999997828 c. (Someone else can work out what that is in metres per second [:P] )
299,791,806.850781224 m/s



I assume that is the speed in a vacuum. Now what is it in water at sea-level?  [;D]
299,791,806.850781224/1.333 m/s = 224,900,080.15812544936234058514629 m/s

Now you're showing off!
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Offline ukmicky

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Incidentally, since you are largely made of protons the chance for energy transfer from a fast proton to you is rather large.
Bored

Even though we are mostly made of Protons for the proton to transfer energy wouldnt it have to hit something as it passed through .  I thought that as a proton is much smaller than an atom a proton flying through an atom would be like a spacecraft flying through our solar system with so much space between everything that the chances are it would miss everything and fly right through.

I take it my thoughts were wrong. [;D]

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Micky - I would have thought that the sheer number of atoms in a human body would have made some kind of collision almost inevitable; especially considering the width of the beam.
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Offline yor_on

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Ok, quite impressive.

B u t ...
In Leap seconds Ligharrow.

What 'Exactly' would it be in leap seconds, nota bene, accounting for how seldom they come too.
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Offline lightarrow

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Ok, quite impressive.

B u t ...
In Leap seconds Ligharrow.

What 'Exactly' would it be in leap seconds, nota bene, accounting for how seldom they come too.

[???]

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Offline yor_on

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:)

Hmm http://maia.usno.navy.mil/eo/leapsec.html
*Just my sense of humor*
Slightly fried :)
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Offline syhprum

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"Even though we are mostly made of Protons", this got me thinking although elements up to at least Oxygen seem to have an equal number of Protons to Neutrons as the atomic mass increases neutrons predominate so that it is truer to say that we are mostly made of Neutrons.
syhprum

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Offline Bored chemist

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By a long way, the most common type of atomic nucleus in the human body is the proton.
Because it has the same mass (as near as makes no difference) as the incoming proton the energy transfer is quite efficient. A proton hitting a big heavy nucleus is likely to bounce off. A proton hitting a single electron will plough on essentially without noticing.

In much the same way that hydrogen is good at moderating neutrons, it's good at stopping protons.

Incidentally, by (roughly) how many metres per second are the protons at CERN slower than the speed of light?
« Last Edit: 04/03/2009 18:35:05 by Bored chemist »
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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Incidentally, by (roughly) how many metres per second are the protons at CERN slower than the speed of light?

And how many holes does it take to fill the Albert Hall?
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Offline syhprum

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I apologise I was in error, I did not take into effect the high proportion of Neutron less Hydrogen that constitutes the human body.
syhprum

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lyner

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How can this scenario be real? The accelerator uses a vacuum. You'd have to be in there with the particles.
How do they get a beam of protons to get into a body - for the same reason?

High speed particles, on impact with a dense material, would produce Cherenkov radiation as they slow up to below the speed of light in the material.

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Offline Bored chemist

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Incidentally, by (roughly) how many metres per second are the protons at CERN slower than the speed of light?

And how many holes does it take to fill the Albert Hall?
There seems to be some evidence supporting an estimate of ten thousand (previously arranged for counting in Blackburn Lancashire).

I think the problem with standing in front of the beam (since it's in a vacuum chamber) is related to the one about standing in front of something that's circular.
Of course, if you switched off the magnetic field the beam would carry on in a straight line, probably punch a hole in the wall and carry on through the air for a considerable distance. You could stand in front of that beam (once).
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Offline DoctorBeaver

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I think the problem with standing in front of the beam (since it's in a vacuum chamber) is related to the one about standing in front of something that's circular.
Of course, if you switched off the magnetic field the beam would carry on in a straight line, probably punch a hole in the wall and carry on through the air for a considerable distance. You could stand in front of that beam (once).

Rather you than me, matey!
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Offline ukmicky

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Thankyou for your replies.

The reason i assumed they would not do much damage to us was because i read that when passing through matter they were classed as an (Let) Low linear energy transfer. And therefore passed straight through us with very little effects.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2009 22:47:03 by ukmicky »

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lyner

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Bearing in mind how strongly ionising Alpha particles are (He++), it is not likely that H+ particles would pass through any matter without interacting.
Neutrons, on the other hand. . . . But you can't accelerate them at CERN, I think.