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Biology is a complete joke though; everything works, but only just, and certainly not forever. There's just no evidence of intelligent design when it comes to biology
However, when we look at the unimaginable complexity of the human brain, or any brain for that matter this might suggest an IDAlan
Example, the exactitude of the fundamental constants and if even one differed minutely we would simple have never come into existence
When thinking of ID I always end up with the question of: how did the intelligent designer come to exist; and what is the purpose of the design.There was a science fiction story that explained it; I forget the name of it; but essentially, the intelligent designers were robots doing an experiment to try and determine how their own intelligent designers came to be. Their experiment is attempting to determine whether carbon-based life forms could evolve to become capable of making intelligent robots.
The concept of Intelligent Design implies that some designer contemplated humanity and produced mechanisms to bring it into being. But looking out into the universe, humanity seems to be so insignificant that it is hard to imagine such a humongous design just to create a human habitat.
If a designer has designed a race of people that can destroy a planet and its life in a few centuries than he wouldnt be a very good designer.
But are we really so insignificant? Einstein also remarked that what is really incomprehensible about humanity, is that we can comprehend so much
Incidentally, has anyone ever considered the possibillity of "stupid design" ie that there is a "creator" but He's just not very good at this sort of thing. That's why the world is in a bit of a mess and why there are so many cockups with the design of humans- for example, the blood vessels feeding out retina are in the way of the light that the retina is there to sense.There are plenty of other examples.
Postulating a designer is useless. It explains absolutely nothing. You then have an infinite regression consisting of questions like "who created the designer?", "what are the properties of the designer?", "how does the designer work?", "how does the designer create?". It does not help our understanding of the universe to say "goddidit".
I suspect that most of us just accept as real that which someone we trust tells us is real.
I like to think that somewhere out there in the vastness of the universe there is/are intelligences far more advanced than we are. There might be beings so advanced compared to humanity that for all tends and proposes they would be undisguisedly to us from out best concept of god
Who created the designer, we must come to a place in out understanding that we have to admit there are mysteries out there in the universe that even the best human mind would never comprehend
What about irreducible complexity, maybe the eye, this amazing biological instruments really seems to me that it was a design be someoneA cockroach is hugely hugely more complex than mans most complex machine, namely the space shuttle
Once we understand physics fully(if we dont go extinct in the next few centuries) we will have no need for supernatural speculation.
Also why do people insist on saying things like "Anything that we cannot understand will seem to be something magical/supernatural. "?It isn't true, if it were then nobody would ever have tried to understand anything- they would just have said "it's magic" nd given up.Also, I don't really undersand how this computer works in any detail- but I don't assume it's magic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death#Consequences [Links inactive - To make links active and clickable, login or click here to register]Europeans turned to astrological forces, earthquakes, and the poisoning of wells by Jews as possible reasons for the plague's emergence. No one in the fourteenth century considered rat control a way to ward off the plague, and people began to believe only God's anger could produce such horrific displays. There were many attacks against Jewish communities. In August of 1349, the Jewish communities of Mainz and Cologne were exterminated. In February of that same year, Christians murdered two thousand Jews in Strasbourg........Some Christians targeted "various groups such as Jews, friars, foreigners, beggars, pilgrims",lepers and Roma, thinking that they were to blame for the crisis. Lepers, and other individuals with skin diseases such as acne or psoriasis, were singled out and exterminated throughout Europe
And we already know how the eye evolved.
Even very crummy eyes are very useful to have, and better eyes are more useful, and there's known examples in the animal kingdom with higher and higher efficiencies. There's no mystery at all.
Evolution doesn't have any aim, except survival. It tries stuff to boost survival. If that works, great, if not, it tries other stuff.It's not trying to burrow holes or anything else except achieve short-term survival that eventually leads to long term survival. A tube that didn't lead anywhere is a complete waste of time, and would probably get infected and then they would die.The human eye was built by random forces, and kept by reproduction- those eyes that worked better were kept, the others mostly died.
QuoteEvolution doesn't have any aim, except survival. It tries stuff to boost survival. If that works, great, if not, it tries other stuff.It's not trying to burrow holes or anything else except achieve short-term survival that eventually leads to long term survival. A tube that didn't lead anywhere is a complete waste of time, and would probably get infected and then they would die.The human eye was built by random forces, and kept by reproduction- those eyes that worked better were kept, the others mostly died.The best medical science simply cannot made a tear duct!!
Maybe evolution really has no aim but why would a mindless thing want to survive?, how can blind evolution have any aim? , that concepts beats me, something with an aim no matter how stupid suggests an intelligence of some sort!!
Life is said to have started about 3.5 billion years ago on earth. There was a primordial soup of some kind or the other, lightening flashing through methane and ammonia etc mixed with water and crashing boiling rocks and chemistryBut hey who made the rocks, the lightening, the earth the soup the earth and the universe Maybe we are just very very lucky little puny entities stuck out here in a corner of an ordinary galaxy amongst a hundred billion others. And we are very lonely beings the only sentient intelligent life forms in this unimaginably huge vast cosmos."What a collosal waste of space"Life has absolutely no meaning, our beloved children , parents , grandparents wife's just like us, are simply a meaningless accident of blind chance
Heck guys let us run and eat and sleep and do exactly what we like for tomorrow we die
Please, please, please learn more about the evolution of life of earth, and of the formation of the universe, before you make comments about these topics.
Lets go back and debate the eye and its origin during the late Cambrian epoch
Lets use as an analogy the history and development of the motorcar. An alien made out of a metallic compound arrives from a very different world than ours, in the late 1890 and takes a primitive prototype car to its home world to dissect. The tiny engine sputters, blows out smoke and breaks down all the time. Ten years later (an enormous time span for the alien)the alien comes back and finds the cars are a little better, due to some process of evolution.Life for them can only exist in a metallic chain helix, and biological carbon bases life is considered as non- conscious, driven by instinctThen the alien continues to return to earth on ten year cycles and each times find this strange self propelled metallic life form more advanced. Evolution is at work here, evolution is nudging this species in a direction of greater efficiencyOf course it is silly to any thinking mind in the alien culture. To think these changes over the huge time scales are anything but an evolutionary process. And to suggestion that some kind of an intelligence was behind the evolution of the animal called car, is blasted out of their scientific order
I happen to know a great deal about physics, science, astronomy and evolution so your suggestion that I must learn about them is meaningless to me
Why do you require something to have an 'aim'?Why should it? You may as well say that an apple 'wants' to fall to Earth. 'Aim' is an unnecessary concept and only used as a short cut in accounting for things which have already happened.
Evolution doesn't have any aim, "except survival". It tries stuff to boost survival. If that works, great, if not, it tries other stuff.
Evolution doesn't have any aim, except survival. It tries stuff to boost survival. If that works, great, if not, it tries other stuff
We now know that at least one part of this "sentance is a lie"
I will not tolerate that type of comment by anyone especially from a person who ""man you can not even spell correctly""The little story about the evolution of the motor vehicle was a joke man a joke!!Alan
Fair enough. I apologise for my spelling, (I'm guessing it's sentance you're referring to? Should it have been sentence? - actually spelled correctly, merely the wrong word). I also apologise for accusing you of lying.I'm glad it was a joke, sadly, it's often difficult to communicate subtleties like sarcasm in plain text. I still think that your comments about irreducible complexity and "blind chance" expose a lack of understanding about evolution.
Just a quick point which should be obvoious to anyone schooled in physics and chemistry.Re "Our human eye has been programmed by evolution or an ID to observe only what we need to observe to survive. It is "now out of date" and we only perceive a tiny fraction of reality, like looking through a tiny straw our slit in the electro magnetic spectrum".The body is mainly water and protein. They eye is made from those materials an in particular the cornea is made from them. It is, therefore, impossible for a human sized eye to "see" in the UV or IR regions because (for a layer that thick) the cornea is opaque.For an insect, with a much smaller eye and so a much smaller pathlength, it's possible to see further into the UV.
This reminds me of an article I saw awhile ago about the human eye. The light sensing cells are on the wrong side of the retina. Light has to penetrate the retina skin cells to be sensed. The light sensing cells of birds eyes evolved with the light sensing cells on the forward side of the retina. The article was about evolutionary mistakes of nature
I've heard science explain that the universe just happened with a big bang - so what was the reaction or action that caused that big bang, I asked, answer 'it just happened'.That doesn't sound so scientific to me. 
As science progresses I've been told that DARWINISM is being rewritten, not the same as it was first published, Hummmm.
Recently I heard a scientist on TV state that "Intelligent Engineered Stem cell" grew into...... without being engineered by a scientist 'it just knew what to do itself'.So now science has accepted that stem cells are intelligent and engineered
In my opinion if we keep the human factor of GOD out of it and think of the intelligence as something that is in every living thing,with our stem cell research we could be on the way to finding the intelligent we are looking for. In the future we may just find it.I cant understand why this theory is so unacceptable to science. Are they so limited in their imagination or do they feel the need to control or is it that they think nothing non manlike/god like/alien like is intelligent.