The Moon has no Spin

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Offline A Davis

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The Moon has no Spin
« on: 06/03/2009 16:32:49 »
The Moon has no spin it's value is zero. The same result is in spherical Harmonics for n=1 and in QUANTUM MECHANICS FOR THE FIRST ELECTRON IN THE BOHR ORBIT S = 0 (zero intrinsic spin) The same result for Mercury (first join) the first moon of Mars ( first join) and the first moon of Jupiter, and so on.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2009 16:36:29 by A Davis »

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #1 on: 06/03/2009 17:30:33 »
Last time you suggested this, you were told that you were talking "Complete Rubbish".  No one leapt to your defence, and you did not explain yourself. Why should this time be any different?

I've got no clue with quantum physics, but the evidence points to the fact that the moon does indeed spin, which makes your comment seem like "complete rubbish" to me.

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Offline Don_1

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The Moon has no Spin
« Reply #2 on: 06/03/2009 17:37:29 »
Think about it, if the moon doesn't spin, how do you explain the fact that we can only ever see the one side of the moon, yet it is orbiting the Earth.

It's really quite simple, forget QUANTUM MECHANICS or quantum anything else for that matter.
If brains were made of dynamite, I wouldn't have enough to blow my nose.

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Offline KingJames

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« Reply #3 on: 06/03/2009 18:36:02 »
Huh?  You just listed two laws and didn't even integrate the variables to prove your hypothesis... ???

That's like saying the reason why it's hot during summer is because x = bx^2.

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Offline Vern

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The Moon has no Spin
« Reply #4 on: 06/03/2009 19:08:44 »
The Moon has no spin it's value is zero. The same result is in spherical Harmonics for n=1 and in QUANTUM MECHANICS FOR THE FIRST ELECTRON IN THE BOHR ORBIT S = 0 (zero intrinsic spin) The same result for Mercury (first join) the first moon of Mars ( first join) and the first moon of Jupiter, and so on.
Hi A Davis; I think you must have eaten too many green apples [:)]

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Offline A Davis

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The Moon has no Spin
« Reply #5 on: 07/03/2009 00:27:40 »
Simple the space station doesn't spin so we always see the same side of it.

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lyner

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The Moon has no Spin
« Reply #6 on: 07/03/2009 11:15:54 »
That means it isn't in orbit. How can that be? Sort out your geometry and your logic before you hold forth on these matters.
Do you not realise that Nelson's Column spins about a polar axis once every day?
« Last Edit: 07/03/2009 11:17:52 by sophiecentaur »

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Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #7 on: 07/03/2009 11:45:35 »
I do know something of Quantum Physics, and can say with absolute certain: 'What the green apples is this rubbish?'

Not enough proof to assert this theory
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Offline A Davis

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« Reply #8 on: 10/03/2009 16:03:28 »
I agree that there isn't enough evidence to confirm the theory, yet, but don't you find it interesting that there is no spin orbit interaction in the 1S orbit (ground state)(l=0,s=0), but there is in the second orbit 2P orbit (l=2, s=1/2,-1/2). I was hoping someone would look at mercury.

I thought the Moon was made of cheese, it's not a green apple.

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Offline Don_1

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The Moon has no Spin
« Reply #9 on: 10/03/2009 17:56:32 »

I thought the Moon was made of cheese, it's not a green apple.

Now you are contradicting another well known fact.
If brains were made of dynamite, I wouldn't have enough to blow my nose.

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Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #10 on: 10/03/2009 20:49:03 »

I thought the Moon was made of cheese, it's not a green apple.

Now you are contradicting another well known fact.

LOL

A Davis, prove to us that Mercury or the Moon has no spin.  Remember, as you are the one who presented the theory, it is on you to prove it.
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Offline A Davis

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« Reply #11 on: 11/03/2009 00:22:57 »
When you look at mercury I will reply in full.

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #12 on: 11/03/2009 03:06:32 »
He's right. I just dropped an energy saving lightbulb on the floor & the mercury that came out didn't spin!  [:0]
Fledgling science site at http://www.sciencefile.org/SF/content/view/54/98/ needs members and original articles. If you can help, please join.

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Offline lancenti

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« Reply #13 on: 11/03/2009 03:35:29 »
... why're we applying QUANTUM mechanics to a MACROSCOPIC system?

Though by right it should work, it's very counter intuitive to say that the moon does not spin. Relative to something, maybe not but on an absolute scale it must spin. So I guess it depends on definition?

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Offline JP

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« Reply #14 on: 11/03/2009 05:11:47 »
Actually, the ground state is l=0, m=0, s=1/2.  But hey, that's probably for the best, since the moon is actually spinning.  Does this mean that if we shine some photons on the moon, we can get it to jump into a higher energy orbital?  I'm hoping for this one

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Offline A Davis

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« Reply #15 on: 11/03/2009 23:26:07 »
To JP, I don't agree with your s=1/2 value, name the spin orbit correction for this result. On the second part how big a laser do you have it would need to be 1038 joules. Nice diagram but what does it mean.
The books on planets use the word synchronous spin for a moon that always faces a planet, I prefer the word no spin.
First Orbit
Planet  Moon  Synchronous  Spin
Earth   Moon     Yes       None
Mars    Phobos   Yes       None
Jupiter Io       Yes       None
Second Orbit
Planet  Moon  Synchronous  Spin
Mars    Diemos   No        Yes
Jupiter Europa   No        Yes
There are probably more I haven't looked at them all.
Nobody yet has looked at Mercury.
« Last Edit: 11/03/2009 23:58:14 by A Davis »

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Offline BenV

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« Reply #16 on: 12/03/2009 00:20:17 »
The books on planets use the word synchronous spin for a moon that always faces a planet, I prefer the word no spin.
But they mean different things - we know that the moon is spinning, and so you must be incorrect.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #17 on: 12/03/2009 19:44:15 »
If you were sat on the moon you would see the stars seem to rise and set in much the same way that you see them do from the earth because, like the earth, the moon spins.
If you set up a Foucault's pendulum on the moon it would show that the moon spins.
If you were to take a pendulum clock to the moon and see how fast it ticked at different latitudes you would see a change in rate due to the moon's spin.
If you were to measure the apparent strength of gravity- for example by weighing a rock on a high precision electronic balance, at different latitudes you would get different answers because of the moon's spin.

If you ignore all that then you can say "I prefer the word no spin." but you have left science so far behoind that you might as wel post this on a poetry apreciation forum rather than a science one.
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Offline A Davis

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« Reply #18 on: 12/03/2009 19:47:05 »
Explain it to me BenV, if it is spinnig what is it's rate of rotation.

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Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #19 on: 12/03/2009 20:15:48 »
From wikipedia;
Quote
The Moon makes a complete orbit around the Earth with respect to the fixed stars (its sidereal period) about once every 27.3 days. However, since the Earth is moving in its orbit about the Sun at the same time, it takes slightly longer for the Moon to show its same phase to Earth, which is about 29.5 days (its synodic period).[6]

Think about it. The same face of the moon always faces us. And it travels around us in a circle. If it wasn't spinning, we would be able to see all faces of it.

The same reasoning applies to the space station.

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lyner

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The Moon has no Spin
« Reply #20 on: 13/03/2009 12:24:09 »
Try walking round a table, keeping your right shoulder nearest to it. You have to rotate as you walk to do that (i.e. you keep facing in different directions).

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Offline yor_on

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« Reply #21 on: 13/03/2009 12:50:28 »
Simple experimental proof for this hypothesis

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Reading you people just makes my head spin.
That doesn't mean that It's in a orbit now, does it, does it!!

Show them this proof of your hypothesis A Davis, and they all will have to admit to the truth,. And yes, my head is nowadays in a most harmonic sphere too
"BOMB DISPOSAL EXPERT. If you see me running, try to keep up."

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lyner

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« Reply #22 on: 13/03/2009 13:19:33 »
AD
It spins ONCE A MONTH, btw.

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Offline Flyberius

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« Reply #23 on: 13/03/2009 17:13:22 »
He is winding you guys up.

Dont take the bait. 

Just ban him.

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Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #24 on: 14/03/2009 00:28:14 »
He is winding you guys up.

Dont take the bait. 

Just ban him.

I am becoming inclined to agree
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Offline A Davis

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« Reply #25 on: 14/03/2009 01:03:19 »
The subject has definitely got you all talking. To yor_on, I don't think they will believe in shperical harmonics. Any references for the pendulum experiment on the moon, if it is true I will concede. Most of you are talking about orbital spin, it's not the same as rotational spin, my right shoulder has no rotational spin its  position is fixed.

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Offline Flyberius

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« Reply #26 on: 14/03/2009 04:14:06 »
The subject has definitely got you all talking. To yor_on, I don't think they will believe in shperical harmonics. Any references for the pendulum experiment on the moon, if it is true I will concede. Most of you are talking about orbital spin, it's not the same as rotational spin, my right shoulder has no rotational spin its  position is fixed.

Sure it is.

You 100% correct.  Thank goodness you cleared it all up.  Call NASA guys.  They got it wrong.  No wonder we have had so much trouble setting up a global communication network.  We forgot to factor in the effect of earths rotation amounting to nothing.

Give this man a nobel prize pronto.

May I suggest http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/ for you.

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Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #27 on: 14/03/2009 08:19:06 »
Flyberius - that was awesome!
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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #28 on: 14/03/2009 18:41:40 »
"not the same as rotational spin,"
What's the difference? They are both spin.
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lyner

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« Reply #29 on: 14/03/2009 20:28:10 »
"not the same as rotational spin"
The only way to deal with that sort of nonsense is to "deny it the oxygen of" a reply.

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Offline A Davis

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« Reply #30 on: 23/03/2009 21:00:19 »
Been typing out the full theory, sent it to three other Universities. May the best one win.

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #31 on: 23/03/2009 22:43:04 »
I'm sure they enjoy a good laugh as much as anyone.
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lyner

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« Reply #32 on: 23/03/2009 23:42:32 »
BC
Did you read wot i rote?

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #33 on: 24/03/2009 20:24:04 »
Yes, but I can't resist making jokes about an idea that is so intrinsically silly as the idea that the moon has no spin.
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Offline A Davis

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« Reply #34 on: 27/03/2009 00:03:47 »
BC why don't you calculate the second orbits intrinsic spin, you might find that it is retrograde. Can you think of a planet that has this solution?

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lyner

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« Reply #35 on: 27/03/2009 14:59:18 »
Have you heard back from your Universities, yet, A Davis?
It's a 'brave'(?) man who uses quantum mechanical ideas for astronomical bodies.

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Offline Ben Evans

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« Reply #36 on: 29/03/2009 00:57:02 »
Yeah, the moon doesn't spin, why should it? Things only spin if they have momentum when they enter orbit. The moon didn't. Get over it! It will probably start to spin in the future though in the oposite dirction to earth. I'll bet 50 on that, anyone want in?

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Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #37 on: 29/03/2009 11:28:48 »
BC why don't you calculate the second orbits intrinsic spin, you might find that it is retrograde. Can you think of a planet that has this solution?
I won't waste my time calculating that nonsense spin when it has nothing to do with the question. I can see that the moon spins just by looking out of the window from time to time.

Ben, I'll take that bet. Since the moon always presents the same face to the earth and the earth is spining the moon spins. Also, it will continue to do so because it's tidally locked to the earth.
There, now you owe me 50. Sent it to the comic relief fund on my behalf please.
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lyner

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« Reply #38 on: 29/03/2009 13:46:35 »
Ben
It would be a very strange object, indeed, that didn't 'tumble' as it travels through space. A single impact with a tiny object with a small tangential component would start it tumbling.
The Moon, along with everything else, is tumbling to some extent. This tumbling (or SPIN) causes it to face us all the time. The, apparent, coincidence of spin and orbit time is due to the fact that the Moon and Earth are not isotropic spheres and there are loss mechanisms (such as the tides) which lock the motions.

Unless, of course, the Moon IS stationary and the Earth is rotating underneath it . . . . . Hang on, didn't Copernicus put us right on a similar bad idea, several hundred years ago. How about a Lunacentric Universe then? (Loony centered?)

Consider, for an instant, that you are wrong in your assumption. Now read  through the past posts and you may come to the correct reasoning. Or read a million other websites.